/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.8585170]

let's be honest for once: as a pc gamer all my life I've to admit consoles were superior in the early 90s. The only platformers we had were a handful and all by apogee and they scrolled like shit and had 16 colours. what you had on consoles were years ahead.
don't get me wrong I like Cosmo but maybe only because we didn't have many options.

[Anonymous No.8585175]

Duke Nukem I and II were better

[Anonymous No.8585190]

>>8585175
personally Crystal Caves is my favourite. it's so overlooked and nobody ever talks about it. happy it got the remaster.

[Anonymous No.8585560]

>>8585170
What if I told you there were kinds of games other than platformers?

[Anonymous No.8586070]

>>8585560
This
PCs games were more than jumping simulators for children.

[Anonymous No.8586797]

>>8585170
To be fair, if was rare when NES games would display more than 16 colors at once (it can possibly display up to 25 colors at once). If anything, their dedicated hardware provided a lot more opportunities for dynamic stuff (side scrollers). That's why consoles were doing a great job with action side-scrollers, but they sucked with strategy games or management sims that required the RAM only computers had.

Command Keen (1990) could only display 16-color in CGA, but the gameplay was great and it was full screen. Meanwhile Apogee had Duke Nukem (1991) which had clumsy horizontal movement (8 pixels at a time) and a narrow viewport. Around 1993, Epic MegaGames released Jill of The Jungle which displayed 256-colors and sometimes smooth animations, but stills suffered from the tiny viewport and clunky horizontal movement. That same year, Apogee was stuck using iD's Command Keen engine to release Monster Bash and Bio Menace (I'm going to ignore Alien Carnage because Apogee only published that game, they didn't develop it) when iD had released Wolfenstein 3D, a 256-color raycasted FPS the year before (which couldn't run properly even on SNES in the form of Super Noah's Ark 3-D)! Heck, even Realm of Chaos (1995) wasn't developed by Apogee. It was a somewhat serviceable action-platform with decent graphics, but the year before iD Software released Doom. Two years after Doom, in 1996, 3D Realms released Duke Nukem 3D... against Quake.

TL;DR: don't use Apogee as a reference frame for technical powerhouse in the early 90s. They had a competent marketing team and solid business model, but on a technical standpoint they couldn't even compete with other companies on PC... so don't expect them to be able to compete against dedicated hardware. Do not fight against your hardware. Understand its strengths and work with that. That's why there were more platformers on the NES than management games.

[Anonymous No.8586798]

>>8586070
all games are for children.

[Anonymous No.8586821]

>>8585170
Who the fuck would want to play platformers all day

[Anonymous No.8586825]

>>8586797
Adding this: Joe & Mac was ported to DOS in 1991. It wasn't published or developed by Apogee. But it's not one of those games you would think of when searching for early 90s PC games because it wasn't part of the catalog of the most visible companies. Apogee, Epic and GT Interactive managed to gain visibility in an era where the Internet wasn't there and magazines dedicated to PC gaming were virtually non-existent (you'd have PC magazines that would cover software, hardware, programming, and general news, but they would only have a few gaming pages at best).

[Anonymous No.8586872]

>>8585170
Nah, early to mid-1990s was an actual fucking blooming for pc gaming and around, with windows 95 being the apex of if all.
The 1980s with the success of the home consoles and arcade cabinets, and the late 1990s with fucking Sony PlayStation, well now that's another story.
But again, What are we actually talking about when we say "superior"?

[Anonymous No.8586993]

>>8585560
Not op here but I call bullshit. Name a single game that is not a platformer, bet you can't

[Anonymous No.8587045]

>>8586821
Eurofags if the vast majority of their PC games are any indication

[Anonymous No.8587078]

>>8585170
>in the early 90s

In the early 90s you had Wolfenstein 3d, Doom, Monkey Island, Leisure suit Larry, Civilization, Sim City, Dune 1 and 2, Warcraft, Rebel Assault, Transport Tycoon, Settlers, etc. and the likes on PCs. Nobody gave a fuck about platformers.

[Anonymous No.8587754]

>I've to admit

Spoken like a true elitist fag

[Anonymous No.8587842]

>>8585170
I liked the Epic and Apogee EGA games just as much as the console games of the day. It was a different dimension of fun to be had on PC.

[Anonymous No.8587869]

Fire and ice was ported around this time. There was some odd trolls game. Oscar. Zool was ported. Titus the fox.

That cosmo game was bizarre. I wouldnt hold it in much regard. It's like talking about catacombs of the abyss and ignoring wolfenstien, let alone fucking doom.

[Anonymous No.8587871]

>>8587078
This. Why do consolefags always pretend to be conceding like this, it's so weird

[Anonymous No.8587921]

>>8585170
Depends on the genre. Early 90s PC games were better in a lot of ways.
Not platformers though. There were good platformers, but none that matched the best on consoles.

[Anonymous No.8587923]

>>8586993
Metroid.
Obviously not a platformer. It's clearly in the Castleroid genre.

[Anonymous No.8588008]

>>8585170
I remember playing this gem on my grandma's old computer. Funny thing is that this was a shareware.

Aldo's Adventure
https://youtu.be/jIJO2sLE0h4

[Anonymous No.8588017]

>>8585170
>let's be honest
isn't honest
>as a pc gamer all my life
t. console pleb
>I've to admit consoles were superior in the early 90s.
for certain genres
>The only platformers we had were a handful and all by apogee and they scrolled like shit and had 16 colours
PC Masterracers didn't play platformers

[Anonymous No.8588060]

PC gaming between 1990-1994 was an incredible period for adventure games, RPGs, simulators, strategy games, and also the first FPS.
>Ambermoon
>Alone in the Dark
>Betrayal at Krondor
>Darklands
>Dark Sun: Shattered Lands
>Doom
>Gabriel Knight: Sins of the Father
>Indiana Jones: Fate of Atlantis
>Jagged Alliance
>King's Quest VI: Heir Today, Gone Tomorrow
>Master of Magic
>Master of Orion
>Might and Magic V: Darkside of Xeen
>One Must Fall: 2097
>Pizza Tycoon
>Quest for Glory: Shadows of Darkness
>Realms of Arkania II: Star Trail
>Sid Meier's Colonization
>Sim City 2000
>Star Control II
>Strike Commander
>System Shock
>Tex Murphy: Under a Killing Moon
>Transport Tycoon
>Ultima VII: The Black Gate
>Ultima: Underworld
>Wing Commander III: Heart of the Tiger
>Wizardry VII: Crusaders of the Dark Savant
>X-COM: UFO Defense
>the list goes on...
These games were far more ambitious and complex than anything available on consoles at the time, and I could replay them all to death.

[Anonymous No.8588087]

>>8588008
Anon.. I was sure I was the only one. I have never seen anyone mention this game ever. This might as well been the first game I've ever played. I have very fond memories of it.

[Anonymous No.8588256]

>>8586798
Oh yeah man Sid Meyer's Colonization was a real hit with the children.

[Anonymous No.8588582]

>>8585170
>The only platformers we had were a handful and all by apogee and they scrolled like shit and had 16 colours.

commander keen 4-8
Halloween Harry

those are worth it

[Anonymous No.8588620]

I don't even remember playing any platform games on the PC except maybe Jazz Jackrabbit, up until emulators became a thing and later once we could get indie shit on Steam.

Meanwhile you had several genres that just did not work on consoles either due to technical reasons or because they required mouse controls.

[Anonymous No.8589020]

>>8585170
When I was younger I did want more of those smooth 2d games like jazz jackrabbit but it just didn't happen much. I did like the zool pc version and alien rampage.

https://youtu.be/XqdHwqyjS0w?t=458

[Anonymous No.8589716]

>>8586825
>Apogee, Epic and GT Interactive managed to gain visibility in an era where the Internet wasn't there and magazines dedicated to PC gaming were virtually non-existent (you'd have PC magazines that would cover software, hardware, programming, and general news, but they would only have a few gaming pages at best).
The shareware model probably helped a lot. Never saw a demo or shareware version of Joe & Mac.

[Anonymous No.8589725]

>>8589716
No, i will not order Doom.
Fuck off.

[Anonymous No.8589758]

>>8585560
>it's meant to run on a slow CPU, but faster than a 4.77mhz XT
Good fucking luck figuring out what speed the developers intended Wing Commander 1&2 to be played at.
This kind of jank programming shows up in crap adventure games a lot (Sierra). But in a worse way because it affects invisible timers for no reason other than the programmer decided to be a retard.

[Anonymous No.8589796]

>>8587078
>Wolfenstein 3D
Jaguar

>Monkey Island
Sega CD

>Civilization
SNES, Playstation, Saturn

>Sim City
SNES

>Dune 1
Sega CD

>Dune 2
Genesis

>Rebel Assault
Sega CD, 3DO

>Transport Tycoon
Playstation, Saturn

>>8587842
>Lemmings 2
SNES

>>8588060
>Alone in the Dark
3DO

>Star Control II
3DO

>X-COM: UFO Defense
CD32

>>8588582
"Commander Keen 7" and "8" are fan games from the 2000s.

[Anonymous No.8589805]

>>8589758
Has anyone tried using the console versions as reference?

[Anonymous No.8589827]

>>8587871
Show two other examples not obviously the same poster.

[Anonymous No.8589829]

>>8587869
Bizarre how? Seems pretty generic to me.

[Anonymous No.8589830]

>>8587078
SimCity 2000 tops them all though. The greatest city game ever made.

[Anonymous No.8589836]

>>8589796
>"Commander Keen 7" and "8" are fan games from the 2000s.
I've seen Keen Dreams called Commander Keen 7. No idea where he was getting 8 from, unless he is actually talking about fan games.

[Anonymous No.8590112]

>>8589796
Those are all inferior ports except maybe Wolf3d. And then you'd need to buy like 7 consoles to play PC games, in a quarter of resolution, using a d-pad to handle mouse controls.

[Anonymous No.8590153]

>>8590112
The 3DO version of Star Control II was an upgrade, but not enough to justify owning a 3DO.

[Anonymous No.8590182]

>>8589796
>Monkey Island (1990 on DOS)
Three years later on the Saturn (1993 - that same year on DOS: Day of the tentacle)

>Wolfenstein 3D (1992 on DOS)
Two years later on the Jaguar (1994 - that same year on DOS: Doom)

>Civilization (1991 on DOS)
Three years later on the SNES (1994)
Five years later on the Playstation (1996)
Six years later on the Saturn (1997)

>Sim City (1989 on DOS) - Sim City 200 was in 1993
Either three or seven years later on the SNES (1996), I don't play butchered ports so I don't know which version it's based on or even if it's a spin-off.

>Dune (1992 on DOS)
The following year for Sega CD (1993)

> Dune 2 (1992 on DOS)
Also the following year on Genesis (1993)

> Rebel Assault (1993 on DOS)
The following year on both the 3DO and Sega CD (1994)

>Transport Tycoon (1994 on DOS)
Three years later on Playstation and Sega Saturn (1997)

>Lemmings 2 (1993 on DOS)
The following year on SNES (1994)

>Alone in the Dark (1992 on DOS)
Two years later on the 3DO (1994, by then Alone in The Dark 2 was already released on DOS)

>Star Control II (1992 on DOS)
Two years later on the 3D0

>X-COM: UFO Defense (1994 on DOS)
Same year. That's one game that was released the same year on both systems.

I'm surprised you didn't throw the shitty Doom port on the SNES to make a point there was no games on PC in the early 90s because it was ported haphazardly two to four years later on console.

[Anonymous No.8590209]

>>8590182
what's bad about the doom port? that's the only way i played because i don't know how else to but it seemed fine really.

[Anonymous No.8590262]

>>8590209
On the SNES? No textured floors, choppy framerate (anywhere between 10 and 20), very low resolution (it's like playing the DOS version with low detail but ever so slightly worse), huge input delay, fewer frames of animation for enemies, small viewport, washed out colors...
The Jaguar version had a decent resolution, smoother framerate, but no music, a wonky menu and maps were simplified (fewer props, fewer unique textures although some were redone at a higher resolution).
The 3DO version had better music quality, but a very small viewport and lower framerate, especially when many monsters are present on screen.

DOS (93): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aW2lZDBxeT0
Jaguar (94): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIUH2qUTEfw
3DO (95): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nx2k8jrCOUU
Snes (95): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fTKGsq5Oa4
Playstation (95): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9xVaHDaQ30
Saturn (97): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPJ9fcVTaGg

Doom was programmed to take advantage of computers at the time and those techniques didn't translate well to console hardware. On DOS, there were a few things you could do to make the game run faster if you had a low-end machine: reduce the viewport size and toggle a pseudo 160x200 resolution that required to compute fewer rays. Both tricks were used on consoles but it still wasn't enough of a compromise. As far as I know (might be wrong) all ports had to reduce the level of detail in levels and had to limit the amount of storage space required by removing levels. The Playstation port was smart because it didn't use raycasting and went straight for polygon rendering since the console hardware was designed to do that. Doom64 was also a smart decision since the game was specifically designed for the console.

If you have an hour to waste, Digital Foundry made a video about Doom ports: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=784MUbDoLjQ

[Anonymous No.8591135]

>>8590262
Clearly PS1 wins here

[Anonymous No.8591143]

>>8587078
>>8587871
Woah, a bunch of dead IPs while everyone was playing Mario and Sonic! Impressive

[Anonymous No.8591996]

I'm imagining the discourse of Japs arguing over whether 90's computers had better games than consoles.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_X68000_games
>"hahahaha, no platformers"
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_PC-98_games
>"but we have DOOM, simulations & strategy games"
Yup, seems like it would sound the same, lel.

[Anonymous No.8592025]

>>8587045
>early 90s PC platformers:
>Commander Keen
>Duke Nukem
>Jazz Jackrabbit
All American games.