/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.8552935]

Why did Sega fail?

[Anonymous No.8552943]

>Tom Kalinske
I hate this faggot.

[Anonymous No.8552947]

>>8552935
32X

[Anonymous No.8552953]

It's funny how he blames the Saturn's performance as the reason why it failed, yet he forced an add-on for the Genesis based on the same architecture.

[Anonymous No.8552957]

>>8552935
How to give away your market share 101.

[Anonymous No.8552965]

Was the performance truly bad? Some game worked/looked better on the Saturn, lots were equally performing

[Anonymous No.8552971]

>>8552935
bad management that poisoned itself

[Anonymous No.8552973]

Didn't he basically gave away some insider secrets to Sony when they came to visit them under the false pretense of offering them the rights to the PlayStation? I swear to God that Console War read like Tom Kalinske's personal fan-fiction where he did nothing wrong.

[Anonymous No.8552974]

Because Sega of Japan is one of the worst run and most incompetent and petty businesses to ever exist.

[Anonymous No.8552975]

>>8552965
designing a performant game engine for saturn was exceptionally difficult because of the awkward hardware architecture that had rapidly been revised a few times

[Anonymous No.8552976]

>>8552965
Not according to the Saturn's creator. See op.

[Anonymous No.8552985]

>>8552965
It was notoriously hard to program for but most of the time it was fine/sometimes better than the PSX. Because of how it works with polygons, there’s nowhere near the same amount of texture jerkiness in 3D heavy games. Tomb Raider also has a much larger draw distance and rounded models (at the exception of the frame rate).

[Anonymous No.8552992]

>>8552965
Yes. Saturn was all kinds of fucked - overly complex architecture, doesn't run 3D well (at the time when it was the hottest shit), doesn't even do transparency without some ridiculous layering hacks. It was a rushed system in every way possible, only because Sega of Japan was obsessed with being the first in the generation. They were certain that Genesis became a success because it was first, and not because SoA were busting their asses trying to sell it.

[Anonymous No.8552998]

>>8552935
Shit company run by retards, both in the east and west.

[Anonymous No.8553021]

>>8552976
Tom Kalinske never designed hardware. He was just a salesman.

[Anonymous No.8553024]

>>8552943
>>Tom Kalinske
>I hate this faggot.

- Barbie
- Hotwheels
- Heman: And the Masters of the Universe
- Matchbox
- Sega of America
- Leapfrog

Tom was brought into Sega because of all his previous successes at Mattel. Sega corporate wanted Kalinske to make the Genesis a household name, and he did. But Tom knew when it was time to bail the company in 1996 - 1997.

[Anonymous No.8553027]

>>8553021
Kalinske secured deals with Sony to jointly make the PlayStation and then with SGI for the N64 tech and the stupid nips killed both deals in favor of the Saturn.

[Anonymous No.8553029]

Even without the Sega Saturn they were still horribly managing the company. Here's another big issue:
Why didn't they have home ports of their arcade games at the time? Saturn was doomed to fail due to everyone at sega being high on opium and drinking mercury.

[Anonymous No.8553032]

>>8553021
>Tom Kalinske never designed hardware. He was just a salesman.

Tom was way more into branding/ marketing and probably the main reason why Sonic became so popular fast. When it came to hardware, he would listen to the technical engineers at Sega.

[Anonymous No.8553046]

>>8553032

And yes, Silicon Graphics/ MIPS took their Ultra 64 prototype to Sega of America, before they presented it to Nintendo. Tom said, his team at SOA really liked the SGI hardware, but when they showed it to some of the SOJ hardware engineers, they rejected it. Though, I have a feeling it was probably rejected because Sega had hardware deals with with other companies lined up for the Saturn.

[Anonymous No.8553048]

No matter how much of a weeb you are, you have to admit that pretty much everything was SoJ's fault. Kalinske and his crew were incredibly successful and knew what made the market tick, if they had full control over what was being created, Sega would've easily stayed competitive instead of releasing useless add-ons (all shoved to SoA by SoJ while they were making Saturn) and making an obviously poorly-designed console.

[Anonymous No.8553051]

>>8553027
>>8553032
I doubt Tom Kalinske had as much influence on Sega as much as he would like to pretend he did, considering Sega of America was a sales subsidiary of Sega Enterprise that simply sold what the Japanese made.

This article featured a much realistic account of the so-called partnership between Sony and Sega that was never really a thing from the Japanese side. It's pretty obvious Sony never really intended to havw a real partnership with Nintendo or Sega.
https://mdshock.com/2019/03/18/sega-and-sony-new-insight-into-the-partnership-that-never-came-to-be/

[Anonymous No.8553060]

>>8553051
Obviously, he didn't have an actual influence on the Japanese side, that's why they were arguing all the goddamn time. And when you read what they were arguing about, according to their testimonies, it's obvious that SoA had the right idea pretty much always. Even bundling Sonic 1 with Genesis was SoA's thing, and SoJ was adamantly against doing so. That alone was responsible for selling a ton of units, and it would not have happened without SoA.
Basically, if SoJ were doing everything their own way, Mega Drive would've been as much of a flop as Master System, and their story probably would have ended then and there.

[Anonymous No.8553061]

>>8553051
SoA made their own games, and partnered with various 3rd parties to port, or secure licensing deals with them to get their games on Genesis. These games were some of the highest selling on the console, and the American branch was outperforming the Japanese side literally 10:1. SoA had a ton of power, which is where a lot of the animositimy came from because the japs were butthurt about it, and any company with an actualy functional board of directors would have given them even more.

[Anonymous No.8553063]

>>8553051
>I doubt Tom Kalinske had as much influence on Sega as much as he would like to pretend he did,

You would be completely wrong. Most of the marketing for SOA, and the direction that Sonic The Hedgehog went in were Toms doing, as he put Sonic through many focus groups and even hired artists like Greg Martin to redesign the character. Also, so much of the marketing tie-ins with Sonic were his doing. A lot of that came from Tom Kalinske's experience with making HeMan a huge thing in the 1980's.

[Anonymous No.8553068]

sega has too much nippon pride.
you either pander heavily to the west and accept that the japanese market is a dead end like Sony, or you make moonshot gambles that pay off like nintendo

[Anonymous No.8553070]

>>8553063
>Most of the marketing for SOA, and the direction that Sonic The Hedgehog went in were Toms doing, as he put Sonic through many focus groups and even hired artists like Greg Martin to redesign the character. Also, so much of the marketing tie-ins with Sonic were his doing.
There's a big difference between localizing an existing game for a different region and making a new console from the ground-up.

[Um, actually guy No.8553076]

Because of poor choices, and getting too cocky.

[Anonymous No.8553079]

>>8553060
>Basically, if SoJ were doing everything their own way, Mega Drive would've been as much of a flop as Master System
This is the most hilarious thing about the weebs here who try to create some fantasy world in their head where Sega dying somehow wasn't the japs fault. SoJ literally has no achievement in the entire history of the company. It'd be one thing is they were Nintendo and we're at least dominating Japan, and had a long history of prior success, but not once ever in 30 years did they have a single success story without outside assistance.

[Anonymous No.8553098]

>>8552975
>>8552992
Yeah, for sure. I don't think that Quads by themselves are why the Saturn failed. They could have chosen the SGA that the N64 ended up getting for its graphics, or at the very least moved the 2nd Hitachi SH-2 CPU to a different bus as well as revamp VDP-1. (Maybe also add 12 or so more KBs more RAM to the system).

[Anonymous No.8553107]

>>8553070
>There's a big difference between localizing an existing game for a different region

Tom Kalinske's involvement in Sonic 1 wasn't just 'localisation'. He was there overseeing everything. SOA would take Sonic 1 betas to shopping malls for random casuals to play, and they would send the feedback to SOJ. Sonic 1 was released in the US first, months before it was released in any other region. SOA wanted it out in the market a couple months before the SNES US launch. Most ideas like Sonic having fangs or a GF like Madonna were vetoed by Kalinske, because he wanted a mascot that could rival Mario. The cartoons, the Mc Donald's tie-ins, all the other stuff.

[Anonymous No.8553110]

>>8552935
Sega died not because of the 32X, nor because of the Saturn.
It was the Dreamcast that bankrupted Sega.
They simply priced it too low at $200. It should have been $300 or even $350.
When the Dreamcast dropped there was nothing else on the market able to compare.
All the other consoles were mogged brutally.
The N64, previously the 3D powerhouse, was made to look obsolete overnight.
Launch titles like Soul Calibur blew everyone away.

So why the hell did they give it a budget price? It's like they were trying to undercut competition that didn't exist yet when they could have charged through the nose for something no one else had.

And that is why Sega ran out of money, cancelled the Dreamcast in 2001, and was bought out and extinguished in 2004 by a Pachinko company. :-(

As an aside, I wonder how Dreamcast sound quality (music, sound effects) compares to PSX and Saturn.

[Anonymous No.8553115]

>>8553107
>Most ideas like Sonic having fangs or a GF like Madonna were vetoed by Kalinske, because he wanted a mascot that could rival Mario.
Actually, according to Yuji Naka himself, the human girlfriend was dropped from Sonic 1 because Naka didn't want to rehash the rescue-the-girlfriend/princess plot every other game has done up to that point. It has nothing to do with Sega of America's suggestions.

[Anonymous No.8553119]

>>8553115
Of course, Naka would do exactly that for 06 anyway

[Anonymous No.8553121]

>>8552935
They didn't evolve, basically. They also didn't adapt to the new market that was the West. They kept wanting to make 2D arcade games, which remained big in Japan, but the West began to demand 3D games of varying genres and Sega either didn't have the programmers or didn't have the incentive. Sega games were cool in the early 90s but by the late 90s Sega stuff looked sort of cheap and naff and knock-off as opposed to the rich experiences forming on PS and Nintendo machines.

The fact they started to make 2D and 2.5D arcade style games instead of mainline consoles tells you exactly this

[Anonymous No.8553131]

>>8553119
>>8553107
What a lot of people don't seem to understand is that all the retarded stories, and horrible anime shit added to the Sonic franchise starting with Adventure is what Japan wanted the series to be all along. Kalinske basically had to keep telling them over and over "no Sonic doesn't need a big titty blonde human girlfriend, and need to be in a rock band. that's fucking retarded"

[Anonymous No.8553134]

>>8553119
Yuji Naka had no involvement with Sonic 2006 (or Sonic CD for that matter).

[Anonymous No.8553139]

>>8553131
>and horrible anime shit added to the Sonic franchise starting with Adventure is what Japan wanted the series to be all along.
As opposed to the horrible furry shit in Sonic SatAM or the Archie Comics?

[Anonymous No.8553150]

>>8553131
An anthro protagonist with a big tiddie girlfriend in a low-cut red dress? I wonder where the Japanese could've gotten such a strange alien concept.

[Anonymous No.8553152]

>>8553134
Naka did have involvement, he just left around the time sega split the teams to make Secret rings

[Anonymous No.8553153]

Sabotage by Americans trying to line their own pockets. Plus Sony using their wealth to enforce predatory pricing for their console of course.

[Anonymous No.8553159]

>>8553121
Oh god why is everyone on this board so retarded. Is this a troll? SEGA literally pioneered in 3D arcade gaming.

[Anonymous No.8553160]

>>8553152
Source?

[Anonymous No.8553167]

>>8553159
It's because this thread is filled with armchair expert of 90's video game business after reading a self-biography of an American businessman salty that the Japanese company who employed him didn't treat him like a white savior.

[Anonymous No.8553171]

>>8553160
there are a handful of interviews. Here's a 2005 one where they ask him about the e3 trailer and the physics engine: http://xbox.gamespy.com/articles/654/654750p2.html

[Anonymous No.8553197]

>>8553167
Damn man I'm sure all the 100s of different people, across multiple divisions, and multiple teams, both directly involved with Sega or at 3rd parties who deal with them who have all told the exact same stories about how terrible the Japanese side of the company was, were all actually just racist. That definitely sounds more probable than a company which literally has 0 success stories for over 30 years without some type of outside influence, simply being full of retards who are shit at their job.

[Anonymous No.8553203]

>>8553115
>Actually, according to Yuji Naka himself, the human girlfriend was dropped from Sonic 1 because Naka didn't want to rehash the rescue-the-girlfriend/princess plot every other game has done up to that point. It has nothing to do with Sega of America's suggestions.

OK, makes sense. Not trying to say that Tom Kalinske invented the character, but he really did take control of the direction Sonic went into for the western market. A lot of it was trying to make a 'cool' characters for the 10-15 year old demographics. He didn't create HeMan, either, but was in charge of that project and seeing it into a toyline. Which meant branding and focus testing, Of course he pushed Sonic into hardware bundles. Which SOJ apparently didn't like, because they thought they could make more money on selling stand alone cartridges. But Kalinske wanted to match Nintendo, They had a Super Mario World bundled SNES and Sega had a Sonic the Hedgehog 1 bundled Genesis for $50.00 cheaper.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mK0OFsWWzu4

[Anonymous No.8553210]

32x, cd and Saturn were all badly judged products that knocked consumer confidence in their brand. By the time of the dreamcast they were in too big of a financial hole and they needed a massive mega smash hit which they didn't get.

[Anonymous No.8553216]

>>8553115
Naka is a pathological liar who got 3/4ths of the team who made Sonic fired by constantly making up shit about them and complaining to management about how worthless they are compared to him. This includes the main level and gameplay designer, who actually did the hard work while he was busy being nothing but a code monkey during the entire run of Genesis games.
His word or thoughts on anything mean about as much as Molynaux's

[Anonymous No.8553237]

>>8553216
Just adding to this, Naka had absolutely nothing to do with Sonic 1 beyond making the engine it ran on. He had no input on gameplay, game design, or marketing whatsoever, so the idea any of the marketing ideas would be run through him is laughable and obviously him making shit up like usual.

[Anonymous No.8553240]

>>8552935
The answer is in the image you posted.

[Anonymous No.8553250]

>>8553159
Mad as fuck mutts that are salty about the Japanese doing it better than they ever could. That and morons. You can take comfort in the fact that current muttmerica is tearing itself apart and Toyota is outselling GM on it's own home turf.

[Anonymous No.8553252]

>>8553197
You kinda know there's a racist undertone when you try to take credit for someone else's achievements and pretend the Japanese side isn't responsible for making the games that actually made the company famous.

[Anonymous No.8553258]

>>8553237
>Naka had absolutely nothing to do with Sonic 1 beyond making the engine it ran on

wow what a minor role

[Anonymous No.8553263]

>>8553197
This reads like some rabid schizo's jingoistic manifesto. Or a butt hurt chankoro, because there's no way a normal human being is this mad about shit that went down in the 90s.

[Anonymous No.8553265]

>>8553216
>>8553237
So why would Yuji Naka's word, the guy who actually programmed the Sonic games, has less relevance than the marketing guy whose only job was to sell them? Even if Naka has a bit of an ego, it's not like he wasn't consulting with the graphic designs and planner on how all of the elements in the game should come together.

Personally, Sonic Team not wanting to do another rescue-the-girlfriend plot in their game sounds more believable than them listening to some prudes offended over a Jessica Rabbit knockoff.

[Anonymous No.8553269]

>>8553252
You're saying SoA made garbage games? No way! Lol.

[Anonymous No.8553272]

>>8553252
The Japanese didn't make Madden, Joe Montana Football or Mortal Kombat, and Sonic was split between both companies, with the American side handling all marketing.

[Anonymous No.8553287]

>>8553265
>So why would Yuji Naka's word, the guy who actually programmed the Sonic games
Because he didn't program the games, he programmed the engine.
He didnt design a single character, he didn't design or layout a single level, he didn't make a single sprite. He had literally nothing to do with the game other than making an engine for it to run on. He was literally a code monkey, who no one would ask for input on anything about, much less the marketing in a foreign country.

[Anonymous No.8553292]

>>8553287
>Because he didn't program the games, he programmed the engine.
Same difference.

[Anonymous No.8553298]

>>8553292
So Tim Sweeny made Dragon Quest 11?

[Anonymous No.8553319]

>>8553139
Those are licensed homage, not official adaptation.

[Anonymous No.8553352]

>>8553150
>anthro
crawl back in the hellhole whence you came.

[Anonymous No.8553370]

>>8553352
How is it wrong? Roger Rabbit and Sonic are both anthro, aren't they?

[Anonymous No.8553375]

>>8553298
It's an engine designed specifically for Sonic, not something Yuji Naka licensed out to Sega.

>>8553319
>Those are licensed homage, not official adaptation.
What's the difference?

[Anonymous No.8553378]

why does the auster hate yuji naka so much?

[Anonymous No.8553380]

>>8553370
anthro is a term only furries use.

[Anonymous No.8553385]

>>8553380
Ah, I see. You're autistic.

[Anonymous No.8553393]

>>8553375
>It's an engine designed specifically for Sonic
No, it was an engine he made and they told him to use it for the platformer they wanted to make, the same as someone licensing an engine. If Naka had his way it was going to be used for an RPG.

[Anonymous No.8553450]

>>8553375
>What's the difference?
They're not made by sega, retard.

[Anonymous No.8553501]

>>8553061
Japs getting salty over a company they didn't even start in the first place.

[Anonymous No.8553525]

>>8552935
because the saturn was a total dog while being just barely good enough that they didn't abandon it right away, which would have saved them.

[Anonymous No.8553543]

>>8553450
No, I'm pretty sure the Sonic cartoons and comics are the adaptations by the very definition of the word. Learn2grammar, dumbass.

[Anonymous No.8553560]

>>8553380
Retard

[Anonymous No.8553591]

>>8553029
what? Yes they did, that’s what the Saturn is most known for. It’s arcade ports

[Anonymous No.8553596]

>>8553134
Damn, is that why CD is the best one?

[Anonymous No.8553613]

>>8552953
He didn't force the 32X, Japan did. They were scared of the Jaguar of all things. Shows you how clueless Japan was.

[Anonymous No.8553623]

>>8553525
>because the saturn was a total dog while being just barely good enough that they didn't abandon it right away, which would have saved them.

Tom Kalinske tried hard to get a Sonic game made for the Saturn. He wanted Sonic Xtreme to compete with Mario 64 and Crash for Christmas 1996. That didn't go over very well.

[Anonymous No.8553627]

>>8553110
More people would have bought into the Dreamcast if the 32X and Saturn hadn't already broken people's trust in them and cemented their reputation as a company who was quick to ditch their hardware and force you to buy their newest product. Selling the Dreamcast at $200 was the only way to get people to buy it at all. The Dreamcast was also greatly hurt by the fact that they passed up on a DVD player so they could put a 56K modem into the system, forcing gamers and developers to deal with the massive gulf between CDs and DVDs which made PS2 games look and play almost a generation newer in comparison.

[Anonymous No.8553629]

>>8553623
What’s even funnier is that after he left the company, Bernie Stolar actually tried his damndest to help the Xtreme team too. He was the one who arranged for the Nights engine to be brought over and told the team he would do literally anything to help them move things along smoother.

[Anonymous No.8553631]

>>8552935
Because they are Nintendo copiers and Nintendo entered an exclusion agreement with Silicon Graphics to create a hardware system that no other company could copy.

[Anonymous No.8553645]

>>8553627
not really, it was more about third parties not wanting to support the dreamcast because sega had no money. the even bigger issue was timing with the PS2 being just around the corner. if they'd killed the saturn earlier and come out with a successor during the rising part of fifth gen, people might've grumbled but it would've been a success.

[Anonymous No.8553653]

>>8553645
>PS2 being just around the corner
Which wouldn't have mattered if the Dreamcast had a DVD drive and if they hadn't already broken everyone's trust by abandoning the Sega CD, 32X and Saturn only a year after introducing them. Again, Sega fucked up and the prioritization of online over storage space is what sealed the system into being nothing more than a stopgap until the real next-gen consoles came out. A Dreamcast with a DVD drive would have survived until at least 2005, the Xbox and Gamecube would have been totally irrelevant, and if Sega hadn't released the technological abomination known as the Saturn, they'd be in a good enough spot that they could have sold it for $300 while still having the consumer base's trust. Fuck Nakayama.

[Anonymous No.8553683]

>>8553596
Sonic CD was basically an alternate Sonic 2 made by mostly Sonic 1 veterans, while Sonic 2 was made in the U.S. by Yuji Naka with a bunch of Japanese staffers he took with him.

[Anonymous No.8553778]

>>8553683
Saying Naka made it is kind of a stretch since he threw a tantrum like a child less than a month into development, and went back to Japan and barely had any influence on the game. The game was finished mostly by STI on the tech side, and on the level and design side by the large numbers of Sonic Team who stayed in America and didn't follow Naka back because they hated working with him so much.

[Anonymous No.8553795]

>>8553778
What a fuck face

[Anonymous No.8553824]

The simple fact is that the Saturn killed Sega. Everyone knows about how it was underpowered, a bitch to develop for, and had no games but even it's simple existence literally killed the company.
The Saturn, due to it's retarded design, cost around $650 to manufacture, and obviously could never be sold at a profit, which the act of selling consoles at a loss isn't unheard-of (give away razors to sell blades is a old marketing term for any industry) but they compounded that by royally fucking up everything to do with the Saturn.
By forcing the American branch to launch early, they destroyed all the food will SoA had built up with retailers, making half the chains in the US never stock them at all. They barely had any stock to sell, pissed off every third party who they didn't bother to tell, meaning they had no games to market for months at a time, had no marketing available other than the "Saturnday" marketing they had been using for when it was actually supposed to launch, meaning barely anyone knew the thing had even been released. And all these factors combined for horrible sales, meaning the few stores that did stock it didn't bother restocking because it sold so miserably. The console was literally dead not even 6 months after it launched, and most people never even knew it existed it's entire shelf life.
So now you have a console, that you're losing literally $100s of dollars on simply manufacturing it, you have 0 market share anywhere but Japan, where your attach rate is low, because most people are just purchasing it to play the home ports of Virtua Fighter, meaning you're not making any money back on licensing fees for software. And you have to keep continually lowering the price because the PlayStation is picking up huge momentum, meaning you're going to be losing even more money.
They eventually just gave up and stopped manufacturing the consoles at all midway through 97, which is why there's less than 7m Saturns made ever.

[Anonymous No.8553838]

>>8553824
Cont
Also I'm sick of this stupid misconception I always see, that the Sega brand was tainted by the CD or 32X. Sega was the highest consumer electronic entertainment company in 1995, they had million+ selling multiplats all the way through 97, and the Dreamcast set records for the highest sales, biggest single day, and single week profits, of any consumer electronic good when it released.
Sega was not poison to the public, and their name didn't carry any stigma, most people simply had no idea the Saturn existed, and those that did saw it had no fucking games, and didn't buy it. When Sega gave people a new console with actual games, they bought it.

[Anonymous No.8553853]

>>8553824
yeah pretty much. there have been worse designed consoles, like the PC-FX, but saturn was more disastrous because it had just enough going for it to get a foothold and let sega think it had a future when it ultimately didn't and shouldn't have.

[Anonymous No.8553896]

It's pretty telling how shitty the Saturn hardware was that, despite the fact that Capcom hated Sony, they made a bunch of exclusives for the PlayStation in addition to all the multiplats that were also on the Saturn, while the Saturn was mostly just getting better ports of their 2D fighting games.

X-Men vs. Street Fighter was an awesome port that could've sold decent numbers had it been localized, but I don't think it could've competed with the likes of Resident Evil 2.

Same thing with Konami and Metal Gear Solid.

[Anonymous No.8553936]

>>8553131
>What a lot of people don't seem to understand is that all the retarded stories, and horrible anime shit added to the Sonic franchise starting with Adventure is what Japan wanted the series to be all along.

Sonic Team got a lot more control over Sonic with Adventure. It was also their chance to update Sonic's character design and do a soft reboot. Like the name Dr. Robotnik being changed to Dr. Eggman for all regions.

[Anonymous No.8553940]

>>8552943
He is the only reason anyone even knows who Sega is today.

[Anonymous No.8553950]

>>8552976
you mean this guy?
https://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?33506-Hideki-Sato-on-the-Sega-Saturn-(incredible-new-interview)

[Anonymous No.8553979]

>>8553950
>So, imagine if the sales goal for the end-of-year sales war is, say, 3 billion yen, and the profit goal is 300 million yen—but wait, the profit is in the red. That profit is a very important factor, so what does the business side do? They decide that it’s not necessary to have sales of 3 billion yen. Instead, 2 billion yen will do. In other words, they stop selling 1 billion yen’s worth of hardware. That way, if each unit sold is losing 5,000 yen, and we extend that to 20,000 units, that’s 100 million yen lost. By stopping the sales of 20,000 units, in a way that becomes 100 million yen in profit.
can't imagine how a company run by such masterminds went bankrupt.

[Anonymous No.8553989]

>>8553979
I mean at that point it was too late, they were already committed to bad hardware. but yes, if the saturn had actually been good it would've been worth taking losses to get the installed base up.

[Anonymous No.8553992]

Sega didn't fail, gaming changed around it and people didn't want actual fun games any more. They wanted style over substance shit that Nintendo and Sony was delivering in truckloads.
Saturn was the best console of that generation and it wasn't even particularly close because it had ACTUAL FUCKING GAMES.
But I wouldn't expect a bunch of kids on 4shit to understand because they were brought up in exactly that era, brainwashed by Sony and Nintendo to love shitty style over substance "games".
All you had to do was have a little bit of intelligence and realize shit like Mario 64 and Metal Gear Solid sucked, but fuck no, you can't do that. No self-realization, no common sense, no logic. Just fall for the viral marketing and paid off reviews.
Fucking fuck.

[Anonymous No.8554000]

>>8553940
t. Kalinske

[Anonymous No.8554012]

>>8553203

Sega Genesis launch date
NA: August 14, 1989 (1988 in Japan)
Sonic the Hedgehog 1 release dates:
NA: June 23, 1991 (July 1991 for JP and UK)
Super Famicom/ SNES release dates:
NA: August 23, 1991 (1990 in Japan)

Tom Kalinske wanted Sonic out a full month before the SNES launched in NA. The SNES launched with two models. The base system with one controller and no game. And the Deluxe package with two gamepads and Super Mario World. The Genesis generally has two main models sold, one with a single gamepad and no game, and the 'bundle' unit, which came with one gamepad and Altered Beast. Altered Beast was the pack-in game from 1989 to 1991 for the US Genesis. Tom Kalinske had to fight with Sega to replace Altered Beast with Sonic 1. Because Tom Felt that it was the only real way to compete with Nintendo.

[Anonymous No.8554014]

>>8553992
it was the worst console because its manufacturing costs destroyed sega. if it had the exact same library but was cheap to manufacture then maybe you could claim it was the best console, but there's no defending its retarded design.

[Anonymous No.8554020]

>>8553992
your gimmick is tired
>>8554014
he's just a literal shitposter who posts the exact same thing in every thread and has for years now. >>/vr/?offset=0&ghost=yes&task=search&search_text=style%20over%20substance%20saturn
ignore him

[Anonymous No.8554031]

>>8554020
yeah I figured it was a troll since he didn't mention any actual saturn games, but there are definitely some weird snobs out there who think it was better for one reason or another.

[Anonymous No.8554040]

>>8552935

probably introducing a machine with a very high price with terrible performance that they knew was terrible

[Anonymous No.8554054]

>>8554040
Sony:
https://youtu.be/ExaAYIKsDBI?t=16

Sega: "SHIT!"

[Anonymous No.8554085]

>>8553048
You'd think that SOJ would be a little more deferential to SOA considering SOA was able to gain a huge market share in America while SOJ was floundering on their home turf against Nintendo. Sounds like that stupid Japanese hubris/pride thing.

[Anonymous No.8554113]

>>8554085
Which is funny, because the Japanese are more well-known for their timidity. Except for Sega of Japan, they had the most arrogant and prideful boomers in the country, apparently.

[Anonymous No.8554132]

>>8552935
Availability probably

[Anonymous No.8554159]

>>8554113
>more well-known for their timidity
Only when it comes to social interactions. Their main concern is not standing out and not making waves that might upset their superiors. In the world of business though? Fuck no look at how prideful Sakauchi at Nintendo was. The guy gave no fucks.
There's this combination of being prideful and not willing to innovation stagnation that plagues all Japanese businesses. One day they're the hot new reasonably priced and high quality product, the next, they're being outmoded by [insert other nationality] because the Japs ride the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" stance to the grave.

[Anonymous No.8554170]

>>8554054

My 32X plus CD owning self, even at 10 years old, knew Sega was fucked at that moment

and then I got to rent a PSX with Toshinden, Tekken, Jumping Flash, and Twisted Metal and I knew it was literally over

[Anonymous No.8554320]

>>8553380
Based
Get thee gone sheepfuckers

[Anonymous No.8554812]

>>8553936
I take the stories of the Sonic Adventure games over the garbage that was being peddled on the overrated SatAM cartoon and those Archie comics any day.

Even Madonna, as cliche as her character concept was, would've been a cooler girlfriend to Sonic than the tranny version of Ricky the Squirrel they pushed in those coming comics.

[Anonymous No.8554835]

>>8552935
Check 1995 E3 moment

[Anonymous No.8555050]

>>8553838
>I always see, that the Sega brand was tainted by the CD or 32X.
But it's true. The 32X ate away resources that they could've used to better prepare the Saturn in the west, especially a stronger launch lineup.

[Anonymous No.8555271]

>>8553992

Our product failed in the market because we didn't made what the costumers wanted.

Its sega who is outdated? no, its the customers who are wrong.

If you are real, you sound like a good specimen for a reality show about people with delusional brand loyalty.

[Anonymous No.8555298]

>>8552935
>Never THE company
>Never drew a dime
>Never had a good game before 2005 and even then was carried by vastly superior games
>Never put anyone over
>Never had the balls to step out their Japan comfort even when Microsoft threw millions at them when the company needed it
>Instead, allowed themselves to get worked into a shoot by pachinko money marks
>Main evented the lowest drawing console generation
>Tanked the buyrate of Saturn outside Japan so hard it also tanked Dreamcast's buyrate, leading to the company quitting the console business
>Was barely ever supported by anyone because the company was never a big enough deal
>So stubborn it refused outside help from others when developing Saturn's architecture
>Buried 3dfx for no reason when developing Dreamcast
>Only the 6th best arcade developer
>Only the 7th best console manufacturer
>Only the 9th best gaming mascot
>Only the 5th best rhythm game developer
>The company's mascot, Sonic the Hedgehog, was utterly BTFO by everything else and achieved nothing notable unless fans have 100% creative control on him
>Japanese and American branches constantly headbutts each other in backstage politics all up the ass
>Needed misleading performance enhancement advertising to beat SNES
>Bought Atlus, the company's only positive impact on the business, purely for the crossovers and weeb appeal
>Spent the rest of company's life carried by weebs and nostalgiafags
>Signed a deal with a talent agency company who has history of abusing their trainees like the cucks they are
>Is the gaming equivalent of that one insufferably mediocre developer whose sole professional """""""achievement"""""" is staying in the same shitty business for years
>The biggest impact the company had on the business was sitting around in the back and survive off merch and gacha money.

[Anonymous No.8555430]

>>8552935
>Why did Sega fail?
They didn't. They're still around, still making games.

[Anonymous No.8555491]

>>8554085
>>8554113
Just because mutts can into marketing doesn't mean they can make games.

[Anonymous No.8555520]

>>8555491
They can sell games, which is something SoJ refused to admit till the bitter end.

[Anonymous No.8555550]

>>8552935
>We knew it was terrible but japanese people didnt.

What does this mean?

[Anonymous No.8555637]

They ended kill, but what a ride it was.

[Anonymous No.8555657]

>>8552965
The Saturn was like the PS3 (and the PS2, I suppose)

Games ran fine on the hardware...if you could figure out the complex architecture

[Anonymous No.8555667]

Nintendochads.........we heckin WON.

[Anonymous No.8555668]

>>8552935
Real answer? Satan. Yes. They appealed to the occult in using 4-sided polygons (this is not a joke) and naming the system after Saturn (Satan).

[Anonymous No.8555678]

I think Sega had way too many consoles, that nobody knew what they were supposed to buy anymore.

On top of the Genesis and Saturn, you also had the Master System still selling in Yurop and Hueland, the Sega CD and the 32X as add-ons, a dedicated portable in the form of the Game Gear, the portable version of the Genesis the Nomad, and the Pico, all co-existing within each other. Shit, there were even Sega CD 32X games that required a Genesis with both, the Sega CD and the 32X. Spreading yourself way too thin can be just as bad as putting all your eggs in one basket.

That's why Nintendo still makes consoles to this day, even after setbacks like the Virtual Boy and Wii U.

[Anonymous No.8555681]

For one thing because Bernie and his fratbro buddies only wanted sports and fighting bullshit and didn't want to localize any worthwhile Saturn stuff.

[Anonymous No.8555687]

>>8555681
Then later they would make another epic blunder and *not* make a home port for Star Wars Trilogy on the Dreamcast. If they did that one thing, they would still be making consoles today, yes because Star Wars was that huge back then and those guys would have been fighting gamers for first dibs.

[Anonymous No.8555696]

>>8555681
get fucked weeb

[Anonymous No.8555701]

>>8555696
Do you know where you're at?

[Anonymous No.8555782]

Saturn was based, it was a extension of the 16bit arcade era with 3D features.

[Anonymous No.8555787]

>>8555491
>>8555681
All the most popular Genesis titles were western made outside of Sonic, Street Fighter, and Streets of Rage. All of which were heavily targeted at western markets. Even Sega's own arcade ports for the console weren't that popular in comparison to ports of western arcade games like NBA Jam or Mortal Kombat.
The delusion that the Genesis was popular because people wanted to play nip games or shumps is laughable. People bought a Genesis for the exact opposite reason, and one of its main selling points were that it's games were far more western oriented as opposed to Nintendo's.
Sony didn't steal a bunch of weebs from Sega they stole the regular Joe along with the N64 which was also an extremely western focused library.

[Anonymous No.8555791]

>>8555787
many of Sega's ports like Altered Beast and Golden Axe were early ones with 4 megabit ROMs before the Genesis was that established yet

[Anonymous No.8555795]

>>8555787
I always wondered how the Saturn would've sell at launch if Sony hadn't cuck them out of the 32-bit console port rights to Mortal Kombat 3.

[Anonymous No.8555825]

>>8555787
This, the people who bought Saturn were hardcore gamers with pretty good taste meanwhile the PS1 was FIFA station.

[Anonymous No.8555857]

>>8553098
>or at the very least moved the 2nd Hitachi SH-2 CPU to a different bus as well

I like how you are parroting youtube influencers who read random articles.
Putting the 2nd SH-2 into a separate bus would've meant that you now have each CPU having its own bank of RAM, and the SCU chip (basically the bus arbiter) would've had to be 125% bigger to accomodate the extra bus. The two SH2s would not have been able to communicate either, except through DMA trapdoors like the Sega CD used. When accessing the rest of the system, the two chips would've had to compete with each other for access.
This is part of the reason why the SH2 having that back-to-back connection was actually a big deal, it allowed them to slap in another chip with only some minimal controller logic instead of an entire new bus. And once devkits and libraries matured enough to work with the second chip, the performance was there.

But what they really would've needed was a dedicated t&l chip like the playstations GTE. The SCU DSP was clunky and cumbersome to use and the SH2 had to micromanage it constantly. PSX GTE was like, send it the transformation vectors, and it punched the result directly into the GPU for displaying.

[Anonymous No.8555865]

>>8553110
>They simply priced it too low at $200. It should have been $300 or even $350.
They wanted to price it $250, Bernie said fuck you and announced it for $200 on E3, then quit the company (with a gratituous severence pay too).

[Anonymous No.8555876]

>>8553110
>I wonder how Dreamcast sound quality (music, sound effects) compares to PSX and Saturn.

Dreamcast AICA is same as the Saturn SCSP, except it has twice the channels, no useless FM operator crap, built-in hardware ADPCM decoding, and has a built in ARM chip for driving the synth part instead of an external 68k (very late Saturns used a SCSP that had the 68k integrated, and this combined chip had similar dimensions to the DC AICA). It also had 2MB RAM to use - Naomi had 8mb.

So DC sound quality is like Saturn quality but twice the channels and 16x the sample quality.

[Anonymous No.8555881]

>>8553159
1 developer team at Sega pioneered 3d arcade gaming.
The 30 other teams didn't knew fuck all about 3d gaming and wanted to stick to sprites.

Saturns designer went and interviews all of them. Everyone inside the company wanted to stick to sprites. So they made the Saturn with sprites, and then panicked when the Playstation was announced and hacked the sprite engine to do deformed quads.

[Anonymous No.8555919]

>>8555881
Japan still loved 2D gaming Westerners however became fixated with 3D to the point of Sony actually banning 2D PS1 games in the West.

[Anonymous No.8555924]

>>8555919
Not "banned" per se but discouraged and Sony required all games to have at least some 3D content even if they were principally 2D.

[Anonymous No.8555927]

>>8555881
They only had like 10 teams to begin with. SEGA went all in on 3D gaming in the 90s. AM1, AM2, AM3 etc. were all developing 3D arcade games before the Saturn launch. You're literally just making stuff up. Which teams wanted to stick to sprites specifically? Sonic Team who went on to make NiGHTS? Maybe it was the guys who went on to develop Panzer Dragoon...

[Anonymous No.8555938]

>>8555919
The hate campaigns some western magazines waged against 2D is crazy.
>Do you really want to play this 9/10 2D game? This feels so last gen

[Anonymous No.8555947]

>>8555787
In general the average SNES or Genesis owner back in the day had sports games or cartoony licensed platformers. That accounted for about 70% of game sales.

[Anonymous No.8555960]

>>8555927
>The Saturn actually had just one CPU at the beginning. Then Sony appeared with its polygon-based PlayStation. When I was first designing the Saturn architecture, I was focused on sprite graphics, which had been the primary graphics up to that point.

>> So I decided to go with polygons (due to the PlayStation). However, there weren’t any people at Sega who knew how to develop such software. Of course, we had Yu Suzuki in the arcade department, but I couldn’t just drag him off to the console department. He was developing titles like Virtua Fighter and Virtua Racing. The expertise of all of the developers we had was in sprite graphics, so there seemed no choice but to go with sprites. Nevertheless, I knew we needed polygons. Using various tricks, adding a geometry engine and so on, I changed everything. In the end, just like the PlayStation, we had pseudo-polygons built on a sprite base. I felt no choice but to design a sprite-based architecture. Having said that, after some significant progress, pseudo-polygons did represent a “jump” in graphics in a certain way. There was a distinction of sorts. The processor was very powerful and could support 4,000, even 5,000 sprites, and I thought we could make the graphics work using a sprite engine after adding the Yamaha and such.

[Anonymous No.8555973]

>>8555927
Doubling down on Sega being the 3D leader just makes the Saturn look worse since it couldn't run them.
Actually a great testament to the stupidity at SoJ. Rush out a new console since your current one that is still the market leader and will be for another 2 years, can't run your latest arcade games, and then your new console can't either.
Either way they're fucking retards as always.

[Anonymous No.8555994]

>>8555927
>AM1, AM2, AM3 etc. were all developing 3D arcade games before the Saturn launch.

They started working on those while the Saturn was already under progress. They started work on the Saturn after the Mega CD was done, 1991 December. Virtua Racing wasn't released yet, hell, Wolfenstein 3d wasn't released yet. Nobody knew or cared about 3d at the time.

>You're literally just making stuff up.
nope.
https://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?35818-*Must-Read*-New-Hideki-Sato-Interview-on-the-Saturn

>Sato: To be honest, in the beginning, I wasn’t thinking of 3D capabilities for the Saturn at all. This was partially my fault, but additionally, the game developers at Sega at the time had basically no knowledge of 3D game development. They had all been raised in the environment of 2D sprites and backgrounds, and the only developers who had any real experience with 3D were Yu Suzuki and AM2 with the Virtua series. I personally had created proposals for a number of polygon-based arcade systems by that time, and the only one who had shown any interest was Suzuki. Actually, all of the other developers wanted to continue developing using the same system they were used to. If you looked at every single Sega employee within the home console division, there were practically no programmers or designers who had any knowledge of polygon technology.
>I had taken a look at Sega’s development teams at the time and concluded, “It’s going to be impossible for them to do 3D games.” I mean, we had over 1,000 developers working in the development division at Sega then. The Saturn was going to be released in 1994, but software development for it had to begin in 1993—and in some cases even in 1992. With all that in mind, I concluded that there was no way Sega’s development assets would be able to do 3D. However, the PlayStation completely embraced polygons.

[Anonymous No.8556585]

>>8553940
He also helped killed it.

[Anonymous No.8556618]

>>8553048
>>8554085
>>8554113
Its ridiculous you speak about Japanese hubris/pride, when the only reason why SOA became a thing is because the Japanese were stupid enough to let go some of their power and allow Sega of America to do "their own thing" and be more independent. They then mismanaged the whole thing. Something that will bite them later in the ass. They weren't like Nintendo which kept Nintendo of America in strict control.

It is clear that both sides were mismanaged, and this idea that Sega of America wouldn't have drove Sega to the ground either way is ridiculous consider the dumb decisions they were making even when they were successful.

[Anonymous No.8556620]

>>8553048
> if they had full control over what was being created
SoA's games are still giving the Genesis a bad name to this very day.

[Anonymous No.8556708]

>>8555876
Fascinating.

So which has better sound quality,

The Gamecube, with its music compressed to fit on its cookie discs?
Or the DC, which may have done similar on its GDROMs with 400M less capacity?

[Anonymous No.8556775]

>>8556618
>It is clear that both sides were mismanaged, and this idea that Sega of America wouldn't have drove Sega to the ground either way is ridiculous consider the dumb decisions they were making even when they were successful.
The fact that they thought the 32X was a good idea when they should've focused on the Saturn is a testament to that.

[Anonymous No.8556798]

>>8556618
>the only reason why SOA became a thing is because the Japanese were stupid enough to let go some of their power and allow Sega of America to do "their own thing" and be more independent. They then mismanaged the whole thing.
Stupid piggu gaijin getting control in a company that had 8% market share, was losing thousands, and had to resort to a distribution deal with Tonka where they would give away consoles if you bought enough toys, in as desperate attempt to penetrate the market.
and then taking that and turning it within 4 years into a company with 55% market share, the leader in consumer electronic sales 3 years in a row, and a mascot more recognizable than mickey mouse.

[Anonymous No.8556837]

>>8556775
Where does this meme come from? SoA did not want to do the 32X. The 32X was Japan's idea, a stop gap between the Genesis and Saturn since they feared losing market share to Atari (lol). SoA talked Japan into making it an add-on instead of an entirely new console, because making an entirely new console would've been an even dumber idea.

[Anonymous No.8556843]

>>8555994
Your own link contradicts your point. AM2 was working on 3D games before the Saturn.

[Anonymous No.8556847]

>>8555865
You don't get a severance when you quit. That's not how it works.

[Anonymous No.8556879]

>>8552985
>>8552992
I don't believe that the average normie at the time knew or cared about the technical differences or could really see much difference between sega rally and the current ps1 racing game of the time. Actually I specifically remember them demonstrating sega rally and bubsy 3d side by side in stores. It just doesn't ad up why it failed so badly. I only knew of saturn's struggles after seeing them cleared in about early 1998. People still brought ps2 when it was common knowledge that xbox was more powerful.

[Anonymous No.8556981]

>>8553992
>They wanted style over substance

The 16-bit generation was style over substance. You have no idea what you're talking about. You're just bitter about outgrowing video games.

[Anonymous No.8557014]

>>8555657
An unoptimized PS3 game vs 360 game's gulf is nowhere near that of PS1 vs Saturn, and their ceilings are relatively similar. Saturn fucking STRAINED to compete and doesn't even come close to some of the later/more technically proficient PS1 games. Yeah it had some weird architectural pluses that shined now and then, like Tomb Raider, but could it just as easily match the complexity of Tomb Raider 3? Resident Evil 3? Chrono Cross? Vagrant Story? Probably fucking not. I like the Saturn but good lord the fanboy cope or underdog contrarianism is stupid.

[Anonymous No.8557030]

>>8555825
Why can't Eurotrash spell their own companies and games properly? Also
>best selling system moves a lot of normie game copies
Imagine my shock, and imagine caring what Britbongs think.

[Anonymous No.8557049]

>>8553950
>Sony had annual sales of 3 trillion yen. They made their own CD-ROM drives. They had their own semiconductor factories. Once when I was talking with Ken Kutaragi [the creator of the PlayStation], he said “Hideki-chan”—he refers to me using the “chan” diminutive—“Hideki-chan, there’s no way you can beat me. Where are you buying your processors? From Hitachi. From Yamaha. What about your CD-ROM drives? You’re buying everything. By buying from Hitachi, Hitachi is profiting. You can’t make anything yourselves. We can make everything ourselves, including custom parts. We have our own factories.” Near Nakashinden, they had a huge factory where they made audio equipment that they were using for the PlayStation. Their cost structure was completely different.

>“That’s the way it is, Hideki-chan,” Kutaragi told me. “So quit the hardware business. Why not just do software? We’ll give you favorable treatment.” He wanted us to go third party. We had been going for so long in the hardware business, for better or worse, and to go third party now? We had been half-heartedly successful in America once, and this made it impossible to quit the hardware business. Maybe if the Mega Drive, the Genesis, had been a failure, things would have been different. But we had a strange taste of success.

It's no wonder, OP.

[Anonymous No.8557076]

>>8556879
>I only knew of saturn's struggles after seeing them cleared in about early 1998. People still brought ps2 when it was common knowledge that xbox was more powerful.
It's simple. The PS1 had games that the Saturn didn't. While they

[Anonymous No.8557083]

>>8556879
It's simple. The PlayStation had games that the Saturn didn't have. Even third-party companies that supported both companies ended releasing more exclusives on the PS1. Resident Evil took a year to arrive to the Saturn and Kojima didn't even bother making an MGS for the Saturn despite releasing Policenauts on that console. And let's not even get started on Final Fantasy VII.

[Anonymous No.8557103]

>>8557014
there's no way you can do Crash 3 on the Saturn, it just won't work. it will look and run like absolute shit.

[Anonymous No.8557253]

From a Sega kid's perspective on what influenced Saturn's failure:

1) Parents didn't want to buy a Saturn because they just shilled out money for a Multimedia PC.
2) No Sonic - which is why a Sega kid would most likely want a Saturn.
3) The Mega Drive and SNES still worked and we were playing on that (and borrowing games from Blockbuster to keep playing that).

You've got to remember the 16-bit gen was still going in 1995. Donkey Kong Country 2 came out AFTER the PS1 released. I spent all my time playing The Dig on the PC. There was just so much going on that the Saturn drifted off into the background.

[Anonymous No.8557362]

Tom Kalinske's real speciality was that he was good at rebuilding brands and imaging things. he was responsible for revitalising barbie and Hot Wheels for Mattel in late 1970's. Apparently, Tom Kalinske was the one who greenlit and oversaw development of HeMan into a toyline. Tom takes credit for visiting Filmation and making a deal to turn HeMan into a cartoons series. Which actually lead to the Saturday morning cartoon trend of cartoons as toy commercials. Hasbro followed suit with Transformers and GI Joe. Many other companies did too.

Tom Kalinske wasn't into the technical spectrum of Sega, he had to rely on their engineers for opinions on hardware. Tom was really into the marketing and making the Sega name look strong in the west as a top brand.

[Anonymous No.8558128]

>>8557030
Useless mutts couldn't even market the Mastersystem, meanwhile SEGA UK masterminds outsold the NES.

[Anonymous No.8558146]

>>8558128
Only because Nintendo screwed up the UK market, which was a home microcomputer country.

[Anonymous No.8558151]

>>8558146
Mutts were always inept fucking idiots

[Anonymous No.8558379]

>>8552935
jews

[Anonymous No.8559376]

>>8556843
>AM2 was working on 3D games before the Saturn.

The interview says the only one at Sega interested in 3d was Yu Suzuki of AM2, obviously because he worked on 3d at the time. The first 3d game they released was Virtua Racing, and up until then nobody had any idea if it was good or not. Even Virtua Racing was an internal experiment to see if it was feasible, it was only released because it was very popular internally. After that they started working on more 3d games, but the Saturn was already under progress by then.

They also say that Saturn development started in 1991 December, VR was still under development then. Where's the contradiction?

[Anonymous No.8559379]

>>8557030
>Why can't Eurotrash spell their own companies and games properly?

That looks like a Teletext screenshot. Those were prone to display errors if your TV signal wasn't squeaky clean.

[Anonymous No.8559382]

>>8558146
Nintendo never really cared about Europe anyway, some of that is their paranoia about piracy since many European cunts in the 80s had no IP laws.

[Anonymous No.8559456]

>>8557049
Kutaragi was a baller but he’s absolutely right and damn did he predict the future

I wonder where all these hardass Japanese management types went in the past 15 years. SCE is currently being driven to the ground by incompetent American management and Nintendo is kinda riding the wake of Iwata’s last gamble with the Switch and trying to become even more like Disney

[Anonymous No.8559664]

>>8555681
You're joking right? You think that crap would have sold the Saturn? Get real.

[Anonymous No.8559749]

>>8559456
I forsee a Switch 2 backed by a clueless Furukawa, whose only modus operandi is greed and not ambition. He will make it the same hybrid form factor, but he'll also do stupid shit like no backwards compatibility, digital only games, and still not addressing the flaws in the Switch operating system and menus/UI, and it will still be plagued by drift. Games will be fewer and farther inbetween as the gulf widens to a point where Nintendo can no longer provide the evergreen hits they need ro sustain themselves without strong 3rd party support. They've already been coasting by on MK8D for years now.

Once that console flops, that'll be it for Nintendo in the video game market space. They no longer have a handheld division to buoy them through the rough tides, so they're going to have to go all in on their IP expansion initiative with movies / TV shows / merch and licensing deals and Super Nintendo World, like they've be planning for since 2015. What's funny is that people will deny this eventuality even though Nintendo's 100+ history has seen them making playing cards, love hotels, and other shit not related to video games at all, so this would just be the norm for the company. I could see maybe a resurgence in game consoles from Nintendo past a 2nd video game crash where history repeats themselves and they manage to pluck out some lucky prodigies like Miyamoto to usher in the return, but given the current environment I am left skeptical about that.

[Anonymous No.8559806]

>>8559376
The contradiction is that the Saturn didn't become a 3D-oriented console until late in the game, after Sega saw how the PS1 was going all-in on 3D. In fact, it's said that VF is what convinced Kutaragi and his cohorts to pursue a 3D console.
Suzuki wasn't one guy working in a vacuum, all of AM2 was working on 3D titles in that era, as far back as 1990. During this era, whatever it was they were prototyping on a napkin that would eventually become the Saturn wasn't even anywhere in the 3X ballpark. Your revisionist history is bizarre.

[Anonymous No.8559812]

>>8559749
I think you're being way too much of a doomer. A Switch 2 (presumably still being ARM and still backed by Nvidia considering both companies make boatloads of money off the thing) not having backwards compatibility is too retarded for the Japanese to even fathom.

[Anonymous No.8559821]

>>8559806
You could argue Suzuki was always thinking about 3D gaming if you consider all the superscaler arcade games he worked on.

[Anonymous No.8559856]

>>8553992
Imagine being this loser, posting gay ass rants about old video games on a fucking anime message board. lmfao at ur life, fagatron

[Anonymous No.8560024]

>>8552985
>Tomb Raider also has a much larger draw distance and rounded models
Both console versions use the same gouraud shading and the draw distance is the same if not shorter on the saturn.

[Anonymous No.8560393]

>>8553992
deranged 10-year-old-fanboy shit
lemme guess, you're a virgin in your 30s?

[Anonymous No.8560467]

>>8555825
>PS1 was Fifa Station

nigga u trollin or somethin? PS1 was whack af

[Anonymous No.8560472]

>>8555787
>western arcade games like NBA Jam or Mortal Kombat.
Still not made by Sega, dumb mutt.
Most of the games that made the genesis relevant in the 80s were japanese, only after that mutts catched on with their shit tastes and games.

[Anonymous No.8560584]

I'd bet big dollah that most of the people who purchased a 32X didn't get a Saturn later.

That's like, 400k-ish sales Sega lost for the Saturn in 1995. Very bad strategy. They should have heard picrelated.

[Anonymous No.8560649]

>>8560472
>Still not made by Sega, dumb mutt.
kinda the point mohammed.
>Most of the games that made the genesis relevant in the 80s were japanese,
The Genesis was so relevant in the 80s that Sega signed a distribution contract with Tonka trucks to give one away for free if you ordered enough toys in a desperate pitch to get any market share lmao

[Anonymous No.8560737]

>>8560024
Nah, the draw distance is shorter on ps1, the reason being the Saturn versions frame dips are very frequent because of it

[Anonymous No.8560856]

>>8552943
He sucks.

[Anonymous No.8560873]

>>8553940
If you are a casual faggot, yes. Otherwise no.

[Anonymous No.8560884]

>>8560467

[Anonymous No.8560915]

>>8555938
Game reviewers were always dumb assholes, they just weren't as influential before the cult of metacritic scorefags.

[Anonymous No.8560957]

>>8560584
It's kinda weird how Sega put more effort into the 32X's launch than they did with the Saturn.

[Anonymous No.8561046]

>>8560649
>The Genesis was so relevant in the 80s
Yes it was dumb mutt zoomer, people were surprised with having arcade quality games at home, even the sports shit was pushed by japanese games like Tony Lasorda or Sports talk baseball

[Anonymous No.8561047]

>>8560649
>>8561046
The Genesis was barely a thing in the 80's. The console didn't launch in the U.S. until 1989.

[Anonymous No.8561436]

>>8560957
No it isn't, Saturnday was fully planned for and promoted, and then Sega of Japan pressured SoA to release the Saturn ahead of their projected schedule which fucked up basically everything.

[Anonymous No.8561476]

>>8561436
Should've just canned the 32X and ported all of its exclusives, like Star Wars Arcade, to the Saturn

[Anonymous No.8561624]

>>8552935
Their games got censored.

[Anonymous No.8562091]

>>8553134
He led development of 06 until leaving the company to make Prope. Despite his negative reputation, it's quite annoying how much misinformation has come up around him and his involvement with the franchise.

[Anonymous No.8562107]

>>8559821
>You could argue Suzuki was always thinking about 3D gaming if you consider all the superscaler arcade games he worked on.

You couldn't argue that because he flat out states this in an interview, that he was programming everything in 3d going as far back as Hang-On.

[Anonymous No.8562110]

>>8562091
Indeed.

[Anonymous No.8562154]

>>8553393
Nope. They picked Naka to be involved with the project because of his work on other games prior. He came up with the concept of the gameplay himself and he was an employee at the time,not an external party who they'd license from. The tech demo already featured what was the basis of what would become Sonic prior.
>>8553287
>>8553237
Naka was one of the two initial staffers involved with the project, which started proper with him and Ohshima once the Rabbit character was decided on. Naka came up with the game concept and foundational gameplay as a result of wanting a faster kind of game and the smooth rolling of the sprite along nonuniform ground as well as the gameplay came from a tech demo he made prior. Naka's dissatisfaction with the Rabbit character led to a redesign that became what we now now as Sonic, and his want for the game to be playable with one-button established the playstyle we know today with the help of Yashura who came on to supervise and do level design after (which Naka also was involved with) and devised jumping on enemies as a solution to meet Naka's goal. He also made the engine and the physics of the game, which have been a sticking point and reference for fans up until this day when judging future entries.

tldr; Naka came up with base concept, the gameplay, made the engine and physics, was involved in the level design (there's interview reference about the particular issues/difficulties with Green Hill Zone), and his dissatisfaction with the original rabbit character design resulted in us getting the Sonic design we know today. Relegating his involvement to 'code monkey' is absurdly dismissive.

[Anonymous No.8562410]

>>8562091
>Despite his negative reputation, it's quite annoying how much misinformation has come up around him and his involvement with the franchise.
>>8562154
>Relegating his involvement to 'code monkey' is absurdly dismissive.
Amen! I've noticed there's a trend among forum dwellers and other kind of anti-fanboys that tend to spread misinformation about famous creators they hate to give the idea that they were "never that great to begin with", as if game franchises couldn't be created by flawed people. You either have to be a paragon of virtue who never did anything wrong or a hack who relied on the cooperation of the actual talent (see also the Fukushima meme when it comes to the MGS series or how Mega Man fanboys dismiss Inafune as a "mere business man").

[Anonymous No.8562745]

>>8562410
Agreed. Proper credit where it's due and accurate accounts both for the good and the bad would be excellent to have. Misinformation and stripping away achievements/credit isn't at all reasonable or commendable. It's an extreme and malicious extension of bias that I really don't like seeing.

[Anonymous No.8562774]

>>8562410
>Amen! I've noticed there's a trend among forum
dwellers and other kind of anti-fanboys that tend to
spread misinformation about famous creators they
hate to give the idea that they were "never that great to begin with"

Almost like some marketing firm is getting paid to spread flase information about their business competitor or something. I wonder who it could possibly be..

[Anonymous No.8563003]

>>8562154
The only source for most of this is Naka himself, who has repeatedly been proven to be a fucking liar. This is nothing like a Kojima situation where discussion centers around the plot, this is a very recognizable pattern where game quality repeatedly degraded over the years as key members of a team were moved or fired coinciding with interviews or reports from others stating that it was because of Naka constantly whining to management about them.
The fact is that there are multiple interviews where Naka claims total credit for things he simply did not do, while degrading the members of his team who did do them. At one point even calling the main gameplay and level designer of the 16-bit games "worthless" and someone who "never did anything on the games"
Naka himself takes almost full credit for Sonic 2 despite his work on the game being almost nothing as he was throwing a tantrum and refusing to work with the American side of the company where all the work was being done.
>Almost like some marketing firm is getting paid to spread flase information about their business competitor or something. I wonder who it could possibly be..
Naka is a nobody at this point who hasn't made a relevant game in 20 years and doesn't even have a job right now you schizo. People who shit on Daikatana aren't hired to make Romero look bad

[Anonymous No.8563352]

>>8563003
Naka's been involved with over 20 games in that span of time, a number of which were well received titles under his own company (Prope) and about 10 titles where he acted as Producer for the Sonic series. These alongside two PSO games, Billy Hatcher, Some Puyo Puyo games, and a Sakura Wars title. These games had relevance.

None of these matters regarding Naka's contributions have been refuted by others in the know, and even those who've called out Naka's manner and behavior did not make a point of diminishing his work, downplaying his contributions, or saying that he didn't do what he's claimed. Not generally or even in clear singular instances that I've seen. The honest fact of the matter is that he has more authority on the matter of what he's done than you do, and LARPing as though you have the context and knowledge to say he did little to nothing is nonsensical and unsubstantiable on the most basic terms.
(1/2)

[Anonymous No.8563437]

>>8563352
Naka quit Sega due to disagreements with his pay and the management of Sonic the hedgehog. Mark Cerny convinced him to join STI as a means of resolving his issues with SEGA. He moved to California along with Yashuhara for the development of Sonic 2. Despite the distaste for his manner, nothing indicated he didn't work with or alongside the American staff. In fact, Naka implemented the multiplayer he was attempting to get working for Sonic 1 and despite him saying that Naka would have preferred to work with an all-Japanese team, Tim Skelly designed the appearance/art of the bonus levels based on a tech demo by Naka and he also mentions that Naka was involved with looking over art and that he was particular about the work done. In the same quote attributed to Skelly, it becomes evident that Naka's role was even bigger than that:

>“Everyone attached to to Sonic 2 ultimately worked for Yuji Naka. I think Naka would have been much happier if he was working with an all-Japanese team, but just because of the language barrier and some cultural differences. Imagine how you would have felt at that time if you were creating a Superman comic book and you were given a manga artist to do the artwork. The differences weren’t as extreme as that, but you get my point.”

To top it off, Marketing Director Al Nilsen also went so far as crediting Naka by name alongside the team with the work on the project and the amount of content that could have gone into it if they weren't so particular about what worked and what didn't. by the end of development.

Again: your disdain for Naka and his alleged faults in conduct and manner don't somehow strip him of his efforts or make it justifiable to act as though his role was minimal or insignificant.
(2/2)

[Anonymous No.8563442]

>>8563352
>Naka's been involved with over 20 games in that span of time, a number of which were well received titles under his own company (Prope)
You start off right away proving you're at best a delusional furry obsessed with Naka because he made Sonic, or at worst a shitposter. Naka studio literally churned out digimon shovelware, and phone games, and not a single person could name a game they made.
>and about 10 titles where he acted as Producer for the Sonic series.
All of which were received terribly, as the series fell off a cliff after Oshima and Yasuhara (the people who actually made the characters, fleshed out the gameplay and designed the levels) were removed at his insistence.
>These alongside two PSO games, Billy Hatcher, Some Puyo Puyo games, and a Sakura Wars title. These games had relevance.
Literally none of these games have relevance, with the exception of PSO, which itself was only notable for being a console MMO, and worse in every way to other MMOs at the time. Naka's most notable games post Sonic were Nights, a 40 minute long game that still somehow managed to be a boring slog, and Burning Rangers a game the supposedly genius programmer made that despite being the Saturns swan song and having 4 years of time to figure out it's inner workings, barely could eclipse double digit FPS, had 5 foot draw distance, and had to steal tech from the Sonic Xtreme devs just to do that much.
>None of these matters regarding Naka's contributions have been refuted by others in the know, and even those who've called out Naka's manner and behavior did not make a point of diminishing his work
Because there's nothing to diminish from when they worked with him and he was kept to the technical side of things. Naka never evolved past being a Master System/Genesis programmer. His own ideas for game and character creation are terrible, and his programming skill did not progress along with new tech, which is why all his later games are glitchy bug filled messes.

[Anonymous No.8563530]

>>8563437
>Naka quit Sega due to disagreements with his pay and the management of Sonic the hedgehog. Mark Cerny convinced him to join STI as a means of resolving his issues with SEGA. He moved to California along with Yashuhara for the development of Sonic 2.
This is full on retarded head canon. Sonic 2 development was moved to the US and collabed to rush out a sequel in time for Christmas of the next year. He hated the experience because American business culture isn't like Japan's where everyone will kiss the ass of the person deemed in charge just because it's custom, and he was told that some of his ideas were stupid and wouldn't make for a fun game.
Every anecdote you post just proves that he was a programmer who just oversaw every other aspect of the game like I said. I'm not denying he was placed into the head position of the Sonic franchise after Sonic 1, that's common knowledge. His actual involvement with the games themselves continued only at a programming level, and as someone to report to on other matters.

[Anonymous No.8563745]

>>8563442
>obsessed with Naka because he made Sonic
Oh? He made Sonic now?
>All of which were received terribly,
Adventure 2: 89
Sonic Advance: 87
Heroes: 64-73
Battle: 69
Pinball Party: 77
Advance 2: 83
Riders: 55-59
Rush: 82
Shadow: 45-51
Advance 3: 79-81.37%
That's a single point away from 7 out of 10 games scoring over 70, with the only one received anywhere close to what can be called terribly being Shadow the Hedgehog

The rest is, as before, just your own nonsense presented as fact.

>>8563530
>Every anecdote you post just proves that he was a programmer - who just oversaw every other aspect of the game like I said.
>oversaw every other aspect of the game
>like I said.
What a laugh.
>His actual involvement with the games themselves continued only at a programming level, and as someone to report to on other matters.
>as someone to report to on other matters.
Nice concession.

[Anonymous No.8564865]

>>8563745
>Nice concession.
Concession on what? You've made up ridiculous claims, and outright bullshit just like Naka himself. Everyone knows he was made the lead of the Sonic series after Sonic 1, that doesn't mean he actually did anything more with the games until he got the people who did fired so he could take their spots.
>metacritic scores
Ok so you're literally a teenage furry obsessed with the Sonic series, go back to /v/ then.

[Anonymous No.8565010]

>>8552935
How many threads about this need to be repeated?

[Anonymous No.8565054]

>>8565010
Have you ever read the story “The Great Divorce” by C.S. Lewis? 4chan and the people who post here are a lot like his depiction of purgatory in that story.