/vr/ - Retro Games

[Ruggarell !!fWvG46eiWHH No.8522186]

>Dropped Doom 2016
>Pick up Doom 1 and 2
>It's on a whole different level of greatness

Doom 2016 was a fucking serious sam clone why did it get so popular? And the music compared to doom 1 and 2 is inferior.

When the fuck are we getting an actual doom game like thes again?

[Anonymous No.8522195]

Compared to Doom 3 and the cancelled Doom 4, nudoom was a blessing.
Too bad the one after that was shit again.

[Anonymous No.8522201]

>>8522186
What does it have to do with Serious Sam? 2016 is a game where you can only have 13 demons alive at any time, that is the complete opposite of SS. If anything it's closer to Painkiller.

[Anonymous No.8522206]

>>8522195
beat me too it. Doom 3 was a massive let down, nu-Doom was still pretty mediocre but wasn't terrible. I put more hours into Brutal Doom than either of these games

[Anonymous No.8522208]

I enjoyed Doom 2016 precisely because it felt like Serious Sam but with fewer enemies and tighter spaces. I guess I should play Painkiller; I never have and haven't even watched any gameplay of it either

[Anonymous No.8522225]

I sure hope nobody starts raving on about how Doom 1 and 2 "had more enemies on screen" while posting that one video of a custom .wad with a bunch of revenants running on modern source ports and modern hardware while conveniently ignoring how the vanilla game actually ran on hardware of the era. That would be disingenuous.

[Anonymous No.8522231]

>>8522186
Almost certainly never, because that's the concession of modern graphics. By the time you can have large, fully open levels already pre-populated with monsters whose bodies stick around after you kill them so you can see the destruction you have wrought, graphics will have made another leap and a different set of concessions will have to be made.

[Anonymous No.8522241]

>>8522206
Brutal Doom feels like reddit to me.

[Anonymous No.8522262]

>>8522241
I'll do you one better and say that brutal doom sucks ass compared to doom 2016 and even doom eternal

[Anonymous No.8522265]

>>8522241
I wouldn't know because I don't browse that other website. I just liked OG Doom with mouse control, modern pacing, harder difficulties, metal remix of the soundtrack and extra gore. Take the things that work, modernize the dated parts. That's all I ever wanted in a Doom sequel

[Anonymous No.8522291]

Stick to your containment thread, retard.

[Anonymous No.8522293]

>>8522265

Eat shit, brutal doom fucks with the perfect gameplay balance of Doom. Play vanilla Doom first, and you will see the difference.

[Anonymous No.8522305]

>>8522241
It's a bloated and awfully balanced aesthetics mod people defend because the sprites make them feel tingly. You can get better options these days.

[Anonymous No.8522313]

>>8522293
I've been playing OG Doom since I had the shareware version on my Windows 3.5 PC, and have had Ultimate Doom, Doom II, and Final Doom on every PC that I've owned since. It's fun to occasionally go back and play for nostalgia purposes but it's dated: slow and the controls too janky without a mouse, can't look up and down, all the demons have the same death sequence, guns don't feel like real weapons, and even back in the day I was muting the in game music and playing metal out of my radio. My mind is sharper and faster now than it was when I was a 13 year old edgelord strolling the Shores of Hell, so I want games that are going to push my cognitive capacities

>>8522305
I like all the extra features and don't think its bloated or imbalanced at all. I find myself switching between weapons more often in the mod than I did in the vanilla game

[Anonymous No.8522319]

>>8522186
I'll take Brutal Doom over the last two Dooms any day. I don't know what it is about them, but after a long gaming session I feel tired like I just got back from work. They give me zero fun for some reason.

[Anonymous No.8522327]

>>8522313
>can't look up and down
Cause you don't even need to, to begin with.

[Anonymous No.8522331]

>>8522327
But I like headshots

[Anonymous No.8522334]

>>8522313
>I like all the extra features and don't think its bloated or imbalanced at all.
It nerfs cacos hard and makes revenants and the hellknights die quicker to the SSG for no reason. It's still fun for a bit but there's not much relevancy to it these days, Project Brutality is better visually and Project Babel is vastly superior in gameplay.

[Anonymous No.8522335]

>>8522186
Just ask for cool wads in the doom thread. There are more doom wads that are way better than doom 1 and 2 than you could play in a lifetime

[Anonymous No.8522339]

>>8522331
Go play call of duty.

[Anonymous No.8522357]

>>8522334
I never minded the nerfed Cacos because they always felt like bullet sponges to begin with, while Hellknights were created specifically because Barons are bullet sponges and they wanted an intermediate demon between an imp and a baron. My biggest gripe with Brutal is the gimped rocket launcher, so I'll check those other mods out. Cheers

>>8522339
Too far in the other direction.

[Anonymous No.8522365]

>>8522357
>I never minded the nerfed Cacos because they always felt like bullet sponges to begin with
>>"don't think it's imbalanced at all"
So you are terrible. Bummer. Have fun anyways, retardanon.

[Anonymous No.8522371]

>>8522365
you're a very rude person

[Anonymous No.8522378]

>>8522186
>Doom 2016 was a fucking serious sam clone
wtf no it's not
serious sam owes more to doom than you think

[Anonymous No.8522549]

>>8522313
Nigger, if you want to look up or down just use a source port, is not rocket science. But anyway, I know I'm talking with a retard because you can't see how fucked up is the balance. Play Doom in ultra violence and with pistol start so you can have an idea of how it was meant to be played, once you're done with the iwads there are thousands of custom maps out there to last you a lifetime.

I hate brutal doom only babies

[Anonymous No.8522569]

>>8522186
They should have been really ballsy and tried to make a modern FPS with absolutely no jumping. On that alone Doom 2016 could have been really interesting to see how they went about the level design with no ability to jump.

[Anonymous No.8522592]

Id are too corporate and boring now. You can feel the cynicism in the new Doom. You need to wait for some other studio to come along with an earnest desire to make things that are just cool for their own sake.

[Anonymous No.8522706]

>>8522549
damn son, settle down. It's just a game. I can like both vanilla and various mods for different reasons. I play iwads all the time. I've been playing vanilla Doom on ultra-violent since I was a teenager. There's no reason for you to be getting this upset

[Anonymous No.8522735]

>>8522186
Doom 4 is what it is. I enjoyed it well enough, but it has a lot of flaws (such as weak level design), and it's nowhere as close to as good as the classics. Haven't yet played 5, but I hear this and that about it.

>It's on a whole different level of greatness
Yes! The enemy roster has such an amazing synergy, particularly with Doom 2. It's one of the reasons the game has enjoyed a loyal and productive fanbase for almost 30 years now, the monsters are really versatile in their roles.

>When the fuck are we getting an actual doom game like thes again?
Like an all new one? Fuck if I know, but at least you have infinite+ of the original games if you ever want more.
If you haven't yet, try out Doom 64, it's a bit like Doom 2 with all new spooky levels, sound, and graphics, as well as some scripting for nifty sequences and traps, play it on the highest difficulty.

>>8522195
Doom 3 has its own flaws, but I think it's a competent enough "Half-Like" which does some things well. Some of the combat and bosses are pretty good.

>>8522201
I'm not actually sure where people get the Serious Sam comparison, but I do hear it at times.

[Anonymous No.8522879]

>>8522265
Serious question: what does "modern pacing" mean in respect to Brutal Doom. I've played Brutal Doom (years ago, not the most recent version). I think you're using the term "pacing" weirdly.

[Anonymous No.8522918]

>>8522879
Modern UI is more convenient and efficient. Mouse control + keyboard makes it easier to circle-strafe and maneuver. Weapon redesign allows you to mow them down, stick that double-barreled shotty in a demons face and blow him into pink slime, clear out rooms with grenades, roast them with a Mancubus's stolen flame thrower. Certain demons have been nerfed so you're not having to slow down just to juke around pumping endless bullets into them until they die, while the monsters themselves have attack buffs and something like a Spiderdemon can shred you in a moment. It just lends itself to faster overall play. It's also got realism mode where even zombie soldiers are a major threat and you're far slower, so when you fuck up you die quickly.

[Anonymous No.8522931]

>>8522918
Absolutely cringe and can't be a serious post
>>Mouse control + keyboard makes it easier to circle-strafe and maneuver.
lol

[Anonymous No.8522946]

Potentially unpopular opinion: I love all the Doom games. I have my favorites, of course, but all of them are good in different ways.

Doom 3 is a fun survival horror game. 2016/Eternal are fun modern takes, and of course, nothing backs classic.

[Anonymous No.8522953]

[Anonymous No.8522962]

>>8522931
We all have different tastes son. There's no reason to be upset

[Anonymous No.8522964]

>>8522195
this

[Anonymous No.8522972]

>>8522962
That has nothing to do with mouse and keyboard control always being there and everything to do with you not knowing what you're talking about, though.

[Anonymous No.8523001]

>>8522972
>mouse and keyboard control always being there
When you say vanilla Doom, I think of the way that the controls were at launch back in the 1990's, how the game is "supposed" to be played in its original format. I don't think of GZdoom with mouse control, which is fun too.

[Anonymous No.8523027]

>>8523001
>When you say vanilla Doom, I think of the way that the controls were at launch back in the 1990's, how the game is "supposed" to be played in its original format
It was with a mouse and keyboard, source: Original Doom demos (see webm of Romero obviously playing with a mouse), it's been there since it was shareware and you're an idiot.

[Anonymous No.8523061]

>>8522195
I enjoy Doom Eternal more than Doom 2016. The dash adds some much needed speed to the game, and various weapons to have more unique ways to deal with enemies (cacodemon grenade gulp and plasma overloading the plasma shield) is great to promote constant weapon switching during combat. Not only that but weak points that doing boil down to shoot the head for extra damage. It's a very frenzied game that encourages you to play at mid and close range. Are there some parts I might not like with some of the level design? Yes, but that can be said of most games.

[Anonymous No.8523064]

>>8523027
It's been a while since those days, I'll concede that I had misremembered that. But I still think the mod flows more rapidly than vanilla, the weapon resdesigns simply allow more flexibility for approaching problems, Gernades are legit useful, headshots drop enemies faster, the pump action shotgun is more like a RL shotgun which makes it better at a distance, and your increased lethality is balanced by an increase in demon lethality, so mistakes are punished more brutally and you die faster. But these are just my opinions I don't see why you feel the need to be rude about it, just like what you like.

[Anonymous No.8523072]

>>8523064
Not him but that's not the sort of thing you "misremember", that's a fundamental and inherent part of playing it. You are also throwing in red herrings about the weapons etc. when he was specifically talking about keyboard and mouse. It's ok to make mistakes or have mental problems etc. but what's annoying is when you start arguing them as if you hadn't been full of shit when you were.

[Anonymous No.8523079]

I enjoy both
Naturally old Doom has more replayability in the long run but new Doom is also fun and very pretty to look at. I could just chill in a room looking at the reflections on the floor and the moisture on the glass panels
The younger generation has it good.

[Anonymous No.8523082]

>>8523072
What do you think I am trying to prove? That my opinion is better than anyone else's? I think other people are just salty about other people liking what they don't like

[Anonymous No.8523109]

>>8522313
>can't look up and down
yeah and you can't jump in Tetris, what a piece of shit game

[Anonymous No.8523113]

>>8523109
Glad you're catching on, you're right.

[Anonymous No.8523115]

>>8523082
You're free to post what you think and people are free to tell you it's retarded.

[Anonymous No.8523120]

>>8523115
https://www.pcgamer.com/how-wasd-became-the-standard-pc-control-scheme/The new movement scheme took several years to catch on, and while we

>can’t know whose fingers found their way to WASD first, we do have a good idea of who popularized the style: the greatest Quake player in the universe, Dennis “Thresh” Fong.

>Fong made history when he took home John Carmack's Ferrari 328 after winning the first-ever nationwide Quake tournament in 1997.

>Imagine him just a few years before, sometime around 1993, as a teenager losing a match of Doom against his brother Lyle. Like many Doom players, Fong used only the keyboard. Without the need to look up or down, it was a natural choice—so much that using a mouse was even considered weird. His brother, however, was playing with a keyboard and trackball, and he was winning

I'm not the only one who didn't use a mouse back in the day, lots of players didn't, so get off your high horse

[Anonymous No.8523121]

>>8523120
>I'm not the only one who didn't use a mouse back in the day
I'd assume that's why you were wrong in the first place

[Anonymous No.8523126]

>>8523121
No, even in the context of GZdoom, I like Brutal Doom's flow better due to the increased lethality of the weapons for both the player and demons. That's why I used the term "faster paced" in the first place.

[Anonymous No.8523129]

>>8522357
Brutal Doom serves as a gateway mod and often opens the door to a LOT of other gameplay mods. Personal recommendations are:
>DAKKA
>Project Babel
>Legendoom
>Final Doomer
>DRLA
>High Noon Drifter
>Hideous Destructor

[Anonymous No.8523130]

>>8523126
>I like Brutal Doom's flow better
That's the general sentiment of people who don't appreciate the pace in the first place. They're also often not that good enough to, especially with vanilla aiming rules.

[Anonymous No.8523137]

>>8523129
Thank you very much, I'll check them out

>>8523130
It's a mood thing for me. Sometimes I like the nostalgia, sometimes I just want to blast metal and wade through the gore. Why does it have to be one or the other?

[Anonymous No.8523140]

>>8523137
Because you toted a "gameplay mod" with shit balance

[Anonymous No.8523142]

>>8523137
Oh and Project MSX kicks ass too. You could also look into Combined_Arms and GMOTA as well.

[Anonymous No.8523143]

>>8523140
I'm sorry you feel that way. we'll just have to agree to disagree

[Anonymous No.8523146]

>>8523143
It's fine, shit taste can't be helped anon

[Anonymous No.8523150]

>>8523142
>>8523146
Thanks frens

[Anonymous No.8523362]

>>8522186
never? i finished both nudoom games and you don't see more than 4-6 enemies at once on the screen, meanwhile in classic doom you can put thousands of enemies on the screen and your frames won't drop once, the constant strive toward better graphics in modern gaming simply means you won't see another doom game again like the classics, also the level design was nonexistence in both games because you go from arena to arena to fight, and they butchered the secrets making them for collectibles and upgrades, don't forget the stupid soundtracks that get praised to high heaven.
i am in the same boat as you, first time i finished doom 1 and 2 was two years ago and i still preferred them over the new games, so embrace it while you can and remember that you have a life time of quality wads to play if you ever get bored of the original game.

[Anonymous No.8523424]

>>8522186
2016 is just a very boring game. Try eternal, but be warned that its more like quake than doom though. At least its way more fun than 2016.

[Anonymous No.8523632]

>>8522186
Never. The level design alone is far too complicated for a modern FPS. Players and critics would lose their minds.

[Anonymous No.8523653]

>>8522186
>When the fuck are we getting an actual doom game like thes again?
There would be no point in making another doom like the old doom because there's already a billion doom mods that excel at being doom.

[Anonymous No.8523737]

>>8523653
/thread

[Anonymous No.8523763]

You need to look at what fps was for the decade before Doom 2016 to understand how bad the landscape was. 2016 is decent and brought the focus back to actual gameplay/combat at least. Even though the level design was seriously lacking.

[Anonymous No.8523775]

>>8523653
No one has yet made a doom game with modern graphics but with old doom design and sensibilities.

[Anonymous No.8523778]

>>8523763
Despite the CODs and Battlefields,Halo look alikes we still had Painkiller,FEAR,Metroid Prime and many others.
Doom 2016 is praised for being revolutionary because they didn't play its influences

[Anonymous No.8524169]

>>8522265
>I just liked OG Doom with mouse control
The original .exe had support for the mouse. If you mean full freelook, that predates Brutal Doom's existence by, god, I don't know long, ZDoom already had that in the early 2000s.
You can play just normal Doom, or any other ZDoom mod, with the same mouselook

>modern pacing
Pacing? What do you mean here? Pacing would be in the level design, generally, are you talking about that Extermination Day level set?

>harder difficulties
In some ways. Brutal Doom kind of flattens out the difficulty curve though, lower tier enemies are made more vicious and dangerous, and I really like that, but things like headshot mechanics and Berserk finishers really does a lot make high tier monsters weaker.
For instance, the Baron Of Hell can pick up explosive barrels and throw them at you, that's a really cool feature, and what's even cooler is that you can shoot the barrel while he's holding it to make it explode, that's totally badass, but it also kills him, which really defeats much of the point of his original 1000hp tankiness.
Similarly, the Cyberdemon can be defeated very quickly because you can give him a couple of headshots with the Super Shotgun.

There's things to like about Brutal Doom, but I think it has a lot of flaws, too.

>metal remix of the soundtrack and extra gore
That stuff is neat, but also available elsewhere.

[Anonymous No.8524194]

>>8522293
I agree that the gameplay balance in Brutal Doom is pretty poor.

>>8522313
Disagreeing with your opinions aside...
>so I want games that are going to push my cognitive capacities
Classic Doom will give you that with levelsets such as Sunlust, Going Down, the Combat Shock series, Valiant, No End In Sight, etc.
Hell, you can play those sets with gameplay mods, there's lots besides Brutal Doom.

>>8522331
Hideous Destructor has that, along with making all the enemies harder.

[Anonymous No.8524443]

>>8522225
I'm sure someone could just post a clip of the teleporter trap from suburbs.

[Anonymous No.8524453]

>>8522186
I actually preferred Doom 3.

[Anonymous No.8524459]

>>8524453
I still haven't played it but always thought it looked cool. I never understood why people would shit on it online so much

[Anonymous No.8524492]

>>8524459
>I never understood why people would shit on it online so much
Maybe try playing it, then you'll get it.
There's a lot wrong with Doom 3 but if I had to pick one thing it'd be the fact that it has the single most ineffective and unsatisfying shotgun in shooter history. That said I'm surprised at how much Doom 2016 took from Doom 3, visually I mean. The game feels like Doom 3 but with the gameplay it should have had. Say, you go out into the surface of Mars and it's exactly like Doom 3, but you're running around fighting monsters instead of looking for air cans.

[Anonymous No.8524502]

>>8522201
>>8522735
>enemy types
>never stop strafing to win
>"must be a clone"

[Anonymous No.8524510]

That’s because unlike Eternal, Doom 1 and 2 are actually good

[Anonymous No.8524582]

>>8524492
I'll give it a try soon. I know not to expect anything too similar to the other games gameplay-wise so maybe I'll be into it

[Anonymous No.8524625]

>>8524582
>I know not to expect anything too similar to the other games gameplay-wise
Actually the gameplay makes a lot more sense if you think of it as a sequel to Quake 2. Q1 and Q2 are the bridge between Doom 2 and 3.

[Anonymous No.8524661]

>>8522918
>>8522706
>>8522313
>>8522319
preach

[Anonymous No.8524871]

>>8524625
Q2 is more a bridge/collaboration between the classic Dooms and Q1. Doom 3 and Quake 4 is where the gameplay and identity for both series started to slip in favor of some awesome looking hallways.

[Anonymous No.8524940]

>>8522201
Painkiller had far more enemies at once and far better arena design than nudoom. Please do not besmirch its name. It's a Will Rock clone, clearly.

[Anonymous No.8524942]

>>8524940
How long until Willrocklikes becomes a term?

[Anonymous No.8525045]

>>8524942
You just made it one, you've forged a brave new frontier.

[Anonymous No.8525331]

>>8522195
Eternal is much better than 2016

[Anonymous No.8525348]

Loved DOOM'16, loved Serious Sam FE, had heard since around 2008 that Painkiller was incredible. Finally booted it up around Halloween of 2019 and had never been more disappointed by a game- until the day Eternal came out.

[Anonymous No.8525367]

>>8524625
Came in the thread and was about to post exactly that after reading a few replies, thanks.