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File: 853 KB, 1280x2372, Legend-of-Zelda-Timeline-3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8450102 No.8450102 [Reply] [Original]

Why so many people dont like the timeline?
What is wrong with games having lore?

>> No.8450107

>>8450102
>What is wrong with games having lore?
zelda barely had lore, that's why. The timeline wasn't something actually planned, it was completely slapdash.

OoT being a sort of indirect prequel to alttp was the only example of a zelda game being connected to another without being an actual sequel for a long time.

>> No.8450116

>>8450102
Because nintendo can’t seem to sit still with it and keep making prequels to prequels to other prequels that take place in an alternate dimension if Link didn’t take a dump on the morning he killed Ganon or not. There’s nothing wrong with having lore, no one is saying that. It’s just the Zelda timeline is a complete clusterfuck that Nintendo keeps backpedaling on with every new game. “Oh oracle of ages was actually the very first game in the timeline but then skyward sword was the true start and there’s a timeline divergence during Spirit Tracks that resets the universe after the Ideon is invoked and destroys the solo ship with the buff clan after the Delorean travels back in time and George McFly is killed by Biff in the alternate future”. Like god damn just settle on a timeline. Stop making it like some insane multilayered mindfuck

>> No.8450120

>>8450107
There's so many inconsistencies between ALttP and OoT that OoT feels more like a reboot, like F-Zero X and Star Fox 64 were to their respective SNES games.

>> No.8450131

The whole thing would be much cleaner and simpler if they just said ‘yeah, every new Zelda game takes place in a different timeline unless it’s a direct sequel’. That way they don’t have to do insane shit off screen to try and tie four swords adventures to Tingle’s Rosy Rupeeland. The games rarely ever make direct references to previous games anyway outside of the odd reference to DA HEEEO UF THYME and Ganon dying and being revived 50 billion fucking times

>> No.8450137

>>8450107
Semi BS. The games always had a canonical series of events, it wasnt until they actually started getting autistic with the placement that it became overly complex.

Zelda 1 and 2 are obviously same characters adventurers. LttP established the lore of the triforce and ganon, obviously implying it being a prequel, awakening was its direct sequel. OoT was the first to be openly advertised as a prequel set up to all that came before it, which wad no problem, its just the in game lore of that title made the placement of games needless complications and made timeline discussions an active topic rather then passive knowledge.

Timeline always existed, oot just made it overdone.

>> No.8450140

>>8450102
Because it's a blatant retcon

>> No.8450158

>>8450102
There was always a timeline. Adventure of Link was a direct sequel to the original. The plot is that the bad guys are trying to revive Ganon and Link has to stop them. Then you have A Link to the Past which is a prequel to the original and develops the lore a bit (the Triforce was made by the gods, Ganon was a thief who was transformed into a pig monster, etc).
People who complain about it are autists. At best you can nitpick the arbitrary placements of the Capcom-made games.

>> No.8450165

>Why so many people dont like the timeline?
Then being connected is only something algos give a fuck about. White people are a fucking mistake.

>> No.8450169

>>8450102
Because it's nauseating to see people talk about the lore seriously when it's obvious every game was intended to be mostly standalone. It's an intuition, a clue that the person you are dealing with is not right on the head.

>> No.8450170

>>8450165
gerudo hands typed this post.

>> No.8450172

>>8450116
>>8450131
I don't know how you could find the timeline THAT complicated. At worst OoT's timeline split is a bit convoluted, and the Capcom games are arbitrarily placed because Capcom clearly didn't care and just threw in random references to other games (e.g. Twinrova being in Oracle of Ages/Seasons), but everything else is just a string of sequels and prequels. AoL is obviously a sequel to LoZ. MM is obviously a sequel to OoT. PH is obviously a sequel to WW. etc etc

>> No.8450174

>>8450158
Yeah, that’s fine. The lore makes sense then. Awakening fits in a little awkwardly but it’s pretty smooth sailing. Then OOT comes out and that’s apparently the very first game in the timeline. Ok so we’re going further back now, ignoring that link suddenly has an uncle in ALTTP despite being raised by a tree in OOT. Okay, sure. Then Majora happens. Direct continuation, sure okay that works. There’s the GBC games and they kind of fit in too. Then Wind Walker happens. Link suddenly has a family yet is a kid and the world is flooded, woah slow down. Where does this fit into the story? Okay, so there’s multiple Links now? Minish Cap comes out and that’s the first game in the series? Then Twilight Princess happens, where does that go into the timeline. It doesn’t help that for a long time Nintendo would imply or just flat out state that there was only one Link which added even more chaos into the timeline and makes zero sense. There was no mention of a branching timeline, to my knowledge at least, until the Hyrule Historia. It was just a total guessing game until then. Shigsy also couldn’t make up his fucking mind considering he was saying Link’s Awakening was taking place inbetween ocarina and majora or whatever in some NP interviews

>> No.8450176

>>8450158
The oracle games are my gripe. Dont know if its been changed, but lttp link deaging between the events of his two original games was retarded. If anything, design wise, link between worlds and oracle games should be connected.

>> No.8450184

>>8450172
The issue isn’t the overall timeline. You can look at it and understand it easily. The problem is they keep jumping back to change it and rearrange things and retroactively adding events to try and tie them all together when it would make significantly more sense to just say they’re all standalone adventures instead of making a branching timeline through events that aren’t even depicted in the games

>> No.8450186

>>8450169
>when it's obvious every game was intended to be mostly standalone
That hasn't been true ever. Adventure of Link is a direct sequel to The Legend of Zelda. It's generally easy to figure out the continuity of the Nintendo-made games, it's only the Capcom/Four Swords games that don't fit perfectly and had to be squeezed in the gaps. It's obvious that Spirit Tracks takes place after Phantom Hourglass, it's clearly not obvious that Four Swords Adventures is after Twilight Princess. The "Vaati" games basically have their own continuity.

>> No.8450191

>>8450184
>this only makes 90% sense so we should switch to something that makes 0% sense
Anon, stop.
The "standalone" theory is bullshit, always has been.

>> No.8450198
File: 151 KB, 550x720, Christianity.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8450198

No problem at all. Zelda 2 is the canonical ending to the Zelda series.

>> No.8450201

>>8450158
My main complaint is with the 'link died' timeline.
Ganon was sealed in the dark world (the corrupted Sacred Realm) at the beginning of Alttp, it seems like such a natural sequel to the adult timeline ending of OoT. And as it ended on the Master Sword being sealed away again "Forever!", it really should end its timeline. (except for maybe 4swords or LA that dont have the sword)
If anything Wind Waker is the one that could've been bumped to a darkest timeline.

>> No.8450203

>>8450191
I never said DER ACKTUALYL STAND-ALONE. No, of course they aren’t. We wouldn’t be arguing about the fucking timeline if that was the case, would we? I’m saying they could have very VERY easily made Wind Waker or Twilight Princess or whatever and just treated it as it’s own thing instead of trying to force in ties to the past games that barely make sense and fuck with the timeline somemore. Their obsession with doing shit like making branching timelines if Link does or doesn’t die in OOT that leads to wind waker or not is stupid. Just say “Yes, wind waker is in its own timeline and that’s that”. Simple as.

>> No.8450214

>>8450201
The link died timeline is such a cool concept done in the most half ass way possible. Literally only ever brought up in a book out of nowhere. By the logic it presents, there are infinite failed timelines or at least one for every game.

>> No.8450221

>>8450201
>Ganon was sealed in the dark world (the corrupted Sacred Realm) at the beginning of Alttp, it seems like such a natural sequel to the adult timeline ending of OoT.
Ganondorf turned human again after he was defeated. That alone doesn't match up with ALttP where it's implied he became the pig-beast permanently after getting the whole Triforce (and not just a piece like in OoT) because that's what his evil heart reflected. So in order to line it up, they had to make it so Ganondorf killed Link and Zelda and got the other pieces from them.

>> No.8450226

The Zelda timeline would work if they just did a Gundam and made it a bunch of AUs with one main timeline getting a lot of focus so they wouldn’t have to resort to branching timelines that rely on off screen events and Wind Waker or Minish Cap’s story can stand on their own without the needless ties to the older games. Then they can pull a Turn A and have a giant space butterfly kill everyone every thousand or so years and reset Hylia

>> No.8450228

Nothing in that stupid chart of gayness will ever enhance your experience of playing a Zelda game ever

>> No.8450256

>>8450102
The idea of a Zelda timeline is fucking stupid because none of the games have any bearing on each other save for a couple here and there. Even Wind Waker takes place hundreds of years after OoT, and everybody is dead and long forgotten, it's ancient history. It's like saying World War II was a sequel to the Hundred Years' War. They're not directly related at all.

The timeline is an attempt to shoehorn all the Zelda games into some greater context or narrative, but there isn't one. It's not the Bible, or some other collaborative narrative told over centuries, it's videogames. Nothing that happens in Skyward Sword affects what happens in Twilight Princess, there's no overarching theme or narrative between the two. It's seeking a metacontext when there isn't one and doesn't need to be one.

You want grand metanarratives to structure your life around? Read the Bible, or some other religious text. Stop trying to make videogames a religion.

>> No.8450276

>>8450120
>There's so many inconsistencies between ALttP and OoT that OoT feels more like a reboot,
like what?

>> No.8450296

>>8450276
This one >>8450221 to start, plus smaller things like Zoras turning from friendly fishmen to fire-spitting mutants, no more Gorons, all the Sages in ALttP being humans instead of the mix of races from OoT, and no mention of ALttP's Knights of Hyrule who were supposed to protect the Sages. Supposedly, even how Ganondorf got the Triforce was changed from ALttP where he broke in on his own without needing Link's help.

>> No.8450313

>>8450198
Based pic

>> No.8450365

>>8450120
This. OoT clearly switched gears and the franchise never looked back.

>>8450276
One of the big ones is that "Link" was just taken for granted to be the same dude across the first four games with ALTTP being the origin. It wasn't until OoT that EVERY game suddenly became an "origin".

I forget where I read it but I really like the idea that all the games are really the same game. A long time ago there was a Link, a Zelda, and a Ganon and they fought over something called the Triforce. But the details of the events have been mostly lost and the games are all different storytellers putting their own spin on the story, making the series a literal "Legend of Zelda."

>> No.8450376

>>8450158
Nobody is complaining about the original batch of games. It's that after ALTTP suddenly the characters started meeting each other for the first time every single game which threw a wrench into the machinery. The timeline being so convoluted is exactly why it took so long to be officially released: everyone at Nintendo knew it would have to be DC comics bullshit to make even the slightest bit of sense.

>> No.8450378

The games are all standalone. Who cares. If there was a timeline you would need to play them in order, but there isn't. You can even play Zelda 2, the most "direct" sequel, before 1 and not have that affect story whatsoever. All you need to know is they're sometimes set in Hyrule, sometimes not; they sometimes have Ganon, they sometimes don't; they sometimes have Zelda, they sometimes don't; they sometimes have the same weapons, they sometimes don't; it's all just thematic connections. Anything else is autism, and if you're going to reply to me, just kill yourself instead.

>> No.8450383
File: 199 KB, 1191x842, 719n9l8ezkL.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8450383

BOTW restores a lot of this but one thing I miss about the franchise is the idea that the world is a vast unknown landscape that's only minimally understood. Even ALTTP loses this by sticking a giant castle in the middle of the map. Zelda 1 and 2 feel legitimately mysterious. The few people you encounter are commonfolk just trying to get by and you're wandering into the frontier that people probably haven't set foot in for millennia. Then you stumble into dungeons that SOMEONE must have built but their identity and intentions are lost to history.

>> No.8450407

>>8450102
>Why so many people dont like the timeline?
Because its fucked.

Four Swords was originally suppose to be the Imprisoning War, but was changed away from that, but as a result it fucks up how they fit together. Their solution was fuck it, all of it merges back together..

They could have just declared Four Swords a spinoff or novelty not in the timeline, but instead didn't want to have a timeline despite fans liking the idea of a timeline. So instead they tied it to more games like Minish Cap to compound the problem where things just don't fit well.

tl;dr Nintendo made a timeline, got lazy didn't want to anymore, and cocked up trying to fit it together later.


>What is wrong with games having lore?
Nothing. The first several games are directly connected and I liked that.

>> No.8450409

I kinda like the idea, and I guess they sort of stuck to it up until a point, of each console generation having its own "Link" and his own set of adventures.

You had NES era Link's game, even extending to the LCD games. SNES era Link getting an adventure follow up at the height of the gameboy's popularity. N64 had OoT and MM as the same character and really the Oracle games should have just been the further adventures of that Link after MM (which I think most assumed they were at the time)

Then the 2000s kinda mixed shit up, you had Toon Link as the face of a good half of that era, but just the design, it wasnt the same character we were following the continuing adventures of from Wind Waker to Four Swords to Minish Cap to Four Swords Adventures. Then you had TP and SS kinda overlapping generations so you never got a real "face" to the franchise of that era, since they only got one game each (not counting crossbow) so we never felt more of a connection to them outside of their solo games or re-using their designs in Smash bros for which ever was more relevant at the time.

Fuck, even the first two CDi games seemed to stick to the overall tone of the current main series of games when they were released, except for Adventure which just went full on original designs.

>> No.8450417

>>8450407
>What is wrong with games having lore?
>Nothing. The first several games are directly connected and I liked that.
There's also a difference between "lore" and what the timeline does. Every game has lore even with no text. Link walks into a giant tree with a face in the original Zelda. That's a weird thing right there and it's totally unexplained. That's "lore." Once it gets into "This game goes here and that game goes there but only if this happened in the game prior..." is akin to getting embroiled in a DBZ power level argument. At that point it's not "lore." It's a canon storyline circlejerk.

>> No.8450448

>>8450417
I never really worried about the little stuff like a tree to go in the first Zelda and where that may be in the map. Granted the maps overlap even in the early games, but I can forgive changes on that based on time passed or the need for functional stage design. Or even pig enemies being placed before Ganon simply because they are standard issue canonfodder for the series. For me its just the big stuff, the flood, the master sword, events directly mentioned like the imprisoning war, etc. Those are describing a history in a world. And since at least the first 6 games or so have direct ties and references to each other a timeline that makes sense is something to expect.

Nintendo just got lazy and just didn't want to have to give a shit. They just wanted to reboot the whole company to new fans eventually and not have to worry, but it was too late for that.

DBZ power levels were mostly a debate since in the west they fucked up a bit and we didn't get the whole info set. In Japan they made official releases and references along the way and while they did stop releasing them eventually you could figure out the math based on things mentioned with enough to go on. Zelda had info along the way and Nintendo just eventually said ya fuck what we said before we don't wanna, its just all separate stories. Then years later knowing that was a bullshit answer glued together a timeline worse than many fan made ones.

Hell I ran across a marriage chart before the official timeline that solidly explained the passing down of the Link line in the games pretty well once. Bigger fans than I did a really good job. Its just sad that they are the ones that cared more.

>> No.8450489

>>8450137
This. OoT ruined the series in general, but it trying to enforce lore shit is its prime offense.

>> No.8450507

I present you the ultimate Zelda timeline:
Zelda 1
Zelda 2

That's it

>> No.8450525

>>8450102
Ultra casuals played a little Zelda here and there, like a dungeon in ALttP and the Deku Tree in OoT then get mad when hardcore fans discuss the lore with each other, and cope by claiming their ultra casual perception of the series is fact. This happened all the time on the old legends alliance forums and zelda universe.

>> No.8450528

>>8450116
It is exceedingly simple to understand for a long-running series.

>> No.8450529

>>8450102
It's a mess that completely fucks with the pre-established order of the games, though in fairness it was only trying to fix what WW had already ruined

>> No.8450532

Back when we knew there was a timeline but not what is was, it was fun because it was like a puzzle for the player to speculate about using small hidden clues in the game, it was a way to further engage with the game that didn't have one right answer.

Now that they revealed an official timeline, the creativity is gone and now you just have lorefags obsessed keeping everything in line.

Additionally, it still makes no fucking sense to me why Link dying in OoT leads to a split timeline but there's no other possible point that Link dying could be a timeline split? What's the deal there?

I do like how Breath of the Wild didn't try to hard with the timeline though, and took a Turn A Gundam "somehow the combined future of all of them" approach

>> No.8450538

>>8450532
>it still makes no fucking sense to me why Link dying in OoT leads to a split timeline
Because they had to reconcile OoT with ALttP where Ganon has the whole Triforce.

>> No.8450542

>>8450532
>Additionally, it still makes no fucking sense to me why Link dying in OoT leads to a split timeline but there's no other possible point that Link dying could be a timeline split? What's the deal there?
They could but no existing games take place after those other "what if" branches. It was mostly just a slapdash explanation to maintain the original OoT-ALttP connection that TWW retconned.

>> No.8450551
File: 140 KB, 2520x320, 1195197507956.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8450551

>>8450538
>>8450542
>>8450532
A long ass time ago, people only assumed there was a single split

>> No.8450564

>>8450528
Zelda isn't the right franchise for a multiverse though. This isn't Marvel. It's inconsistent with the themes and tropes of the games themselves.

>> No.8450565

>>8450551
single split imo was fine and a cool idea based on the way oot unfolded. i liked there being the classic world, but also a flooded alternate setting the series could have explored.

>> No.8450567

>>8450564
not really. since lttp the series has had a lot of parallel worlds and mirrorverses.

>> No.8450568

>>8450564
theyve basically implied on botw thats the timelines merge or something. seems to be magical so its not like its entering marvel faggotry

>> No.8450571

>>8450565
its fucking gay, and this sort of thing is always gay and should never be introduced to a series

>> No.8450572

>>8450538
>Because they had to reconcile OoT with ALttP where Ganon has the whole Triforce.
This right here is the crux of the problem: the entire timeline is an ad hoc reconciliation after the fact. This wasn't Miyamoto playing the long game and placing pieces on the board and having everything come together when it's time. It's a bunch of random games with little to no concern for other games and then after three decades of this they suddenly asked some poor intern to make sense of it all and be Japanese Tolkien for a day.

>> No.8450576

>>8450551
>Minish Cap is the first game because... It's the first time Link wore a hat!

All the Toon Link games should be their own timeline.

>> No.8450590
File: 24 KB, 209x604, 1223211130.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8450590

here's the REAL zelda timeline

>> No.8450594

>>8450567
I feel like there's a narrative difference though. The Dark World in ALTTP is more like Coraline while the Zelda timeline is closer to Back to the Future II. It feels like two different genres.

>> No.8450597
File: 156 KB, 800x550, 25410-the-legend-of-zelda-a-link-to-the-past-snes-back-cover.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8450597

>>8450174
>Okay, so there’s multiple Links now?
Yes, according to the back of LttP's box.

>> No.8450598

>>8450572
This. LttP was just suppose to explain where the Triforce and Ganon came from. And then OoT was suppose to be the "real" events of what was mentioned in the opening crawl of LttP, but outside of that, there was no real "lore".

>> No.8450605

>>8450597
>In all his glory, Link ventures back to the land of Hyrule.
>The predecessors of Link and Zelda face monsters on the march...
These two sentences don't match.

>> No.8450612

>>8450597
>Has an ESRB rating on it
>Has an ESRB rating that wasn't even created until two years after the release of Ocarina

Show me the back of the original 1992 box, you gaslighting weasel.

>> No.8450616
File: 67 KB, 528x360, 3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8450616

>>8450612
Not him, but here. Notice how the copyright only says 1992 on it.

>> No.8450618

>>8450597
>trusting the back of the american release, when basically every company would make up some bullshit and slap it on the back without thinking

If it ain’t in the Japanese version, it ain’t canon

>> No.8450621

>>8450612
it was a late reprint
https://comics.ha.com/itm/video-games/nintendo/the-legend-of-zelda-a-link-to-the-past-player-s-choice-wata-70-a-sealed-snes-nintendo-1996-usa/a/122029-15844.s

>> No.8450629

The timeline used to be fun to speculate. Not only did the canon timeline ruin all the fun, it's also fucking shit and stupid.

>> No.8450630
File: 1.78 MB, 992x887, BuT iT rEaDs LiKe A hIsToRy BoOk.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8450630

>>8450616
Thank you.
Now, for the REAL litmus test; does it say that on the back of the Japanese box, too? We know that NoA made shit up back then. They were the ones who started the "It's the same Link every time" shit.

>> No.8450637

>>8450629
It's also incredibly pointless. There's nothing in the games themselves that require or even benefit from knowing where the game takes place in relation to other games. Nintendo telling us the timeline is about as useful as them telling us Princess Peach's tax policy.

>> No.8450641

>>8450630
Trying to find it now. Can find a translation of the manual but oddly enough not the back cover. Link (heh) to a list of changes that NOA made to the manual and backstory that features a load of random additional tweaks and shit that wasn’t in the original (including given Ganondorf a second name): http://www.zeldalegends.net/index.php?n=z3translation

>> No.8450643

>>8450630
I read "Carina of Time" six times before I noticed the O.

>> No.8450646

>>8450629
timeline obsessives couldn't let it drop and ended up getting more than they bargained for

>> No.8450647
File: 65 KB, 466x65, Untitled-6 copy.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8450647

>>8450630
What did anon mean by this

>> No.8450661
File: 93 KB, 862x58, BOYHOOD.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8450661

>>8450647
Probably because the preface presents it as such. Remember; the grift here was that this manual was written like it was a historical textbook, so they're free to contradict themselves and leave the door open for other Zelda games later.

>> No.8450662

>>8450641
Most of those notes are taking OoT's retcons into account, and I'm pretty sure Nintendo never even conceived of OoT back in 1991/92.

>> No.8450663

>>8450661
Likely covers their butts from the Dobsons of the time too. "See, you can pretend this is the same Link you love already, just play the game"

>> No.8450665

>>8450630
>They were the ones who started the "It's the same Link every time" shit.
I don't think that's something that can be "started." It's the default and perfectly rational assumption. The idea that you're playing as suspiciously identical descendants is stupid even for back then. Castlevania goes out of it's way to make clear which Belmont you're playing as. They're not like "herp derp they're all named Simon."

>> No.8450669

>>8450665
Don't get me started on Castlevania lore. There was a thread about a year ago that got incredibly autistic about which Castlevania 1 is the REAL Castlevania 1 and how we've always been playing in the "worst" timeline.

>> No.8450670

>>8450663
That's impossible though because you get two games where Link and Zelda meet for the first time.

>> No.8450671

>>8450665
>Castlevania goes out of it's way to make clear which Belmont you're playing as. They're not like "herp derp they're all named Simon."
There was Castlevania Adventure for Game Boy which tried to claim that Christopher was Simon.

>> No.8450678

>>8450669
At least Castlevania is straightforward enough in that every game is essentially "Dracula's back, who has the whip this time?" It gets dodgy when you start listening to Koji Igarashi who has a weird hangup about trying to kick out games he didn't personally work on.

>> No.8450683
File: 325 KB, 901x1614, 0A8C7DB2-7746-4F6A-8FE9-378337B3E6F3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8450683

Ran the text through a machine translator (which came out surprisingly clear). Slightly edited for clarity

>The Masterpiece The Legend of Zelda finally arrives on the Super Famicom!
>The Legend of Zelda: Triforce of the Gods
>This time, the story takes place in a time when Hyrule was still a single kingdom, even longer ago than Link's time. It's a time when Hyrule was still a single kingdom. Running, bumping, carrying, throwing. Pushing, pulling, swimming, shaking...
>People ran freely all over the land of Hyrule. When you have the Triforce in your hands, You will become a legendary hero

The rest is legal jargon. Keep in mind I used a text extraction site and then a machine translator so this may be totally off, but it’s the best I could do without learning Wapanese

>> No.8450685

>>8450678
This. I always thought the concept of the Belmonts secretly being Dracula's descendants had a touch of irony, but IGA had them literally make a PS2 game to undo a single Gameboy barely anyone played.

>> No.8450687

>>8450678
The worst part is that those games (except Legends) later for reinstated into the timeline anyway so it all just becomes a big wild clusterfuck

>> No.8450701

>>8450685
I think the bigger tragedy was that it fractures the Castlevania's Dracula and Bram Stoker's Dracula connection by adding a bunch of weird backstory.

>> No.8450707

>>8450701
>IGA was too much of a coward to actually make a Castlevania game set during Brame Stoker's Dracula, even though at least two games reference it as being canon in the setting.

>> No.8450717

>>8450707
They'd never be this self aware but I'd love a 1999 game with Julius that actually feels like it's 1999. As in MTV, The Matrix, and the Dreamcast are things and the soundtrack has like Eiffel 65's Blue and shit.

>> No.8450723
File: 928 KB, 808x1272, OoS_Zelda_Artwork.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8450723

>>8450683
So LttP is pretty conclusively suppose to be a prequel to LoZ. I guess the next ones that everyone had issues with are the Oracle games. The only things to go off of is that the Triforce is complete and sends Link on an adventure in the open cinematic. IIRC, when you actually run into Zelda, she has no idea who you are.

>> No.8450730

>>8450717
I read somewhere the reason why they haven’t made a Julius 99 game is because they wouldn’t do the setting and the war service. Shame but I guess that’s better than them fucking it up

>> No.8450732

To be fair to the lore junkies, it's not a new thing. I forgot this was the case because all I play is randomizer now but in ALTTP nobody ever shuts the fuck up. The whole game is exposition city.

>> No.8450743

>>8450102
These games don't have a story. There's nothing of interest within a single Zelda game let alone when compared against each other. The "deep Zelda lore" is such that nothing is of any consequence. There will never be a moment when you play a Zelda game and reflect on past games, thinking about what brought us to this point in the story. The reason Zeldafags argue about the timeline placement of each new game is because it's so fucking arbitrary that it COULD be anywhere; Nintendo has been making new games with the same rehashed story without any relationship to the rest of the series because the Zelda universe just isn't established enough. There is a reason faggot Zelda fans like Commonwealth Realm spend more time trying to prove that there is a story than actually analysing it.

I challenge Zelda fans to name me ONE theme in the series. I challenge Zelda fans to name me ONE part of the Twilight Princess story I would miss out on by not having played Majora's Mask.

>> No.8450763

The thing about Zelda is that the lore is more valuable to the story when it's less concrete. Every game nominally addresses that the world has a robust past. The lack of full information is the core of the mystique. The word "legend" is in the title. When you can bust out a timeline and be like "oh this is because of X, Y, and Z from that other game" you're sacrificing a major franchise gimmick.

>> No.8450771

>>8450743
Knowing that the hero's shade is Link from OoT and that he's a Stalfos now because he died in the Lost Woods.

>> No.8450778

>>8450771
what does this have to do with the story of Twilight Princess?

>> No.8450781

>>8450102
Zelda never had a lore. Forcing it to have a lore ruins the games and makes them stupid because plotholes and contradictions.
It's not Middle Earth. Fuck off.

>> No.8450782

>>8450771
>>8450778
In fact, why would one even need to play Majora's Mask to infer this??

>> No.8450789

>>8450782
To legitimize Twilight Link as the true successor of the Hero Of Time, as opposed to Wind Waker Link to was literally just some kid. It was all to make Twilight Princess the OoT3 that everyone wanted.

>> No.8450791

>>8450743
Twilight Princess seems like it was randomly placed. None of the timeline really matters unless the game is a direct sequel.
Even LttP which is clearly marketed as a prequel to Zelda 1 & 2 seems more like a reboot.

>> No.8450795

>>8450789
Your character is named Link, what does it matter about being the "successor of the Hero of Time", how does that affect the story at all?

>> No.8450796

>>8450743
The theme is courage. Link is courageous. Otherwise you're right 100%.

t. HUGE Zelda fan, I'm also this poster >>8450781

>> No.8450803

>>8450795
Because Twilight Princess was literally Fan Service: The Video Game. Everything about it and its plot is suppose to scream "FROM NOW ON, ALL ZELDA GAMES WILL JUST BE REPEATS OF OCARINA OF TIME"

>> No.8450813

>>8450796
>The theme is courage. Link is courageous
That's not a theme, Link is almost a deity, what makes him special isn't his "courage". Courage might be a theme if we at all saw the fruits of courage from any other character, if we saw from any character what a lack of courage results in. I doubt the message of the story is that "everybody except for you is a pussy"

>> No.8450816

>>8450683
I'd translate the main blurb as
"This time the stage of Link's action is further in the distant past in the era when Hyrule was still a single kingdom.
Run. Crash. Carry. Throw. Push Pull. Battle with the sword...
Rush for Hyrule's freedom, when the golden power of the triforce is in your hand you will become the hero of legend"

>> No.8450820

>>8450564
It's set in a world of fantasy, unlimited magic and sorcery. Parallel worlds and timelines are par for the course.

>> No.8450826

Because Zelda doesn't have any lore. The supposed "timeline" was something Miyamoto quickly pulled out of his ass to shut autists up.
You can tell it's quickly stitched and didn't have any thought.

>> No.8450827
File: 83 KB, 200x357, triforce of the gods.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8450827

>>8450618
The back of the Japanese box is even more explicit.

>> No.8450828

>>8450102
Former timeline fag here. I autistically and unironically spent years theorizing about this shit long ago on sites like GameFAQs and some of the Zelda fan sites.

Here's why people don't like the idea of a timeline: the games themselves are largely self-contained and with few exceptions reference the lore of at most one other game in the series, that game usually being whatever game they're immediately set after, or in some cases a game they are meant to act as a backdrop to. So for example, AoL only references the original, since it's a direct sequel, and OoT very explicitly sets itself up to be ALttP's Imprisoning War from its backstory.

Now, this in and of itself wouldn't be a bad thing, as you could just make note of what games reference and are clearly meant to succeed or precede another, and build a coherent timeline that way, and up to MM this was very doable. You had the original, then AoL (direct sequel), then ALttP (prequel to both), then LA (direct sequel to ALttP), then OoT (direct prequel to ALttP), then MM (direct sequel to OoT). Up to this point, it was simple and to the point: OoT - MM - ALttP - LA - LoZ - AoL. It wasn't widely or explicitly propagated by Nintendo except in an interview with the Shiggy Diggy where he seemed a little confused about it himself (probably because he hardly cared, honestly), but anyone with two braincells could put it together easily.

cont.

>> No.8450832

>>8450828
>Imprisoning War
where is the war in OoT

>> No.8450835

>>8450813
It's not meant to be as harsh as that but courage is definitely the message since Link is typically way out of his depth. Link being inherently special is essentially a retcon. He was originally meant to be a random Joe. His green tunic is typical fairy tale peasant clothes. His first sword is made of fucking wood.

>> No.8450836

>>8450661
>>8450630
That's not a manual, that's from s strategy guide.

>> No.8450838

>>8450835
I can say almost every video game has the theme of "courage" because there is a final boss the player can beat

>> No.8450843
File: 41 KB, 400x298, zelda.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8450843

This stupid ass cartoon had better lore than anything in the timeline.

>> No.8450849

>>8450836
Yeah, I had this one. It's this one:
https://archive.org/details/Nintendo_Players_Guide_N64_Legend_of_Zelda_Ocarina_of_Time/mode/2up

>> No.8450852

>>8450828
So, Oracle games come in, and they're very ambiguous as to where they lie. Most people say around ALttP or LA, and sure enough, officially that's where they were placed in the end. Whatever.

And then TWW happened. THIS is the game that began the shitstorm and turned the timeline into a confusing mess with theorists having all sorts of flame wars about whether there is a single timeline or a split. Now, the split actually WAS theorized even back at OoT's release by anyone who paid attention to the ending, but most people just kind of assumed it all came together somehow in the end. TWW dashed all hopes of a clean solution involving a single timeline, since it confirmed there was a timeline where Hyrule, Ganon, and the Master Sword are all gone forever, and furthermore, in an interview Aonuma and the Shigster confirmed it took place after the "Adult ending" of OoT, which heavily implied a second, separate timeline. A lot of people hated this idea, though, and either twisted themselves into pretzels with all sorts of outlandish ideas to keep it all together in a single timeline, or just wrote off the idea of a coherent timeline altogether and just decided "it's all just retellings of the same shit lol". I took the side of the split timeline, and believe me when I tell you, shit got REAL autistic. The body of evidence for it was quite big, though.

cont.

>>8450832
Yeah, that didn't sit well with "splittists" actually, and we took it as further proof that OoT couldn't be that backstory after all. Little did we know what Nintendo had in store...

>> No.8450856
File: 32 KB, 500x375, 51Xi+wh6eAL._RI_.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8450856

>>8450843
Not gonna lie, this show was my introduction to Zelda franchise and I was excited for every episode as a kid.

One thing they've got right is canonical size of Zelda's rear.

>> No.8450870
File: 1.44 MB, 580x882, 6a00d83452033569e201b7c741b25a970b-580wi.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8450870

>>8450856
The comic is legit good.

>> No.8450875
File: 160 KB, 640x480, The dog is wearing more clothes than Lana.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8450875

>>8450856
Those old Nintendo shows had their priorities straight.

>> No.8450882

>>8450843
>shows how items shrink so Link can carry them
>explains why enemies disappear when they're defeated and how they teleport into Hyrule
>had warrior Princess Zelda before the games
>In the final episode Link lets Ganon go so he can continue being the hero of Hyrule, instead of killing him and he comes back with no explanation
Yeah I'm thinking it was based

>> No.8450883
File: 502 KB, 1028x1454, zelda_wii.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8450883

>>8450832
I think the idea was that, in legend, it was a war even though it's not what really went down. You can sidestep a lot of discrepancies like that, the truth behind events gets lost as they become legends. And Osawa himself did say OoT was meant to be the Imprisoning War. But the Triforce discrepancy is probably why they retconned all that.

>> No.8450886

>>8450852
So Four Sword games come around. They're largely inconsequential, but once again they're damn ambiguous as to where they lie. I personally liked placing them both after TP, but apparently Ninty decided to separate them for some reason. Again, whatever, they hardly matter. TMC WAS often put before OoT, so that one wasn't too controversial, and that, too, ended up being its official placement, so, cool.

Now, if there were some who still held out hope that a single timeline could work, TP completely destroyed it, as it is essentially TWW's parallel, and Aonuma confirmed it as such in an interview, placing it after the "Child ending" of OoT, contrasted to TWW coming after the "Adult ending" from earlier. There was one issue, though: Ganon fucking dies in this one, too. So where the fuck does ALttP go? If OoT is not its backstory, does that mean that backstory is an entirely different event? But OoT was originally meant to BE that backstory. Was there a retcon?

Since there was no reason whatsoever to believe that there was a third split, most theorists took to placing ALttP and the games after it after TP and FSA pretty much out of necessity, since TWW pretty much made it impossible to place it there. A good argument WAS made at the time that the events of FSA actually sort of resemble ALttP's backstory more than OoT does in some ways, and the game stylistically takes after it anyway, AND it ends with a pig Ganon sealed away as well. It was... well, not perfect, but as good as it got.

PH, ST, and SS came in. No controversy with those, really. They went where they needed to go.

cont.

>> No.8450891

>>8450883
Triforce discrepancy?

>> No.8450892

>>8450836
Everyone pretty much considered the official strategy guides to be bigger manuals with more lore back then.

>> No.8450897

>>8450891
Ganon in ALttP's discrepancy has the entire Triforce all the way up till ALttP. Ganon in OoT's ending only has the Triforce of Power.

>> No.8450903
File: 68 KB, 640x373, super mario 64 mad piano.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8450903

>>8450892
When you were a teenager, it was obvious most strategy guides were filled with BS that was just made up by interns and had no input from the developers.

>> No.8450906
File: 308 KB, 1149x472, linkandzeldacapn.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8450906

>>8450882
>In the final episode Link lets Ganon go so he can continue being the hero of Hyrule, instead of killing him and he comes back with no explanation
Link was an amazing shithead in that show. And Zelda was even hotter in Captain N.

>> No.8450907

>>8450897
>ALttP's discrepancy
*ALttP's backstory

>> No.8450908

>>8450897
that's literally why the official time has Link die, so that Ganon actually CAN have the whole Triforce when he's sealed in the Sacred Realm.

>> No.8450912

Because the timeline is fucking retarded and completely irrelevant to the actual games.
It's just something for loser numales to argue about online.

>> No.8450914

>>8450908
I know, I'm just explaining it was a well-known inconsistency at the time.

>> No.8450917

>>8450102
What I wanna know though, is where do the CDI games fit in the timeline?

>> No.8450920

>>8450886
And finally, Hyrule Historia drops, and we finally got an answer regarding ALttP and its backstory. What did Nintendo do?

They made up a third timeline out of whole cloth. It's not even a timeline split. It's a "what if" scenario, specifically "what if Link died fighting Ganon in OoT?" Nothing in any game alludes to it, unless you count the mention of the Knights of Hyrule being wiped out in ALttP's backstory, and amalgamate them into a single person i.e. Link.

Basically, Nintendo decided they wanted to have their cake and eat it, too. They knew TWW and TP made OoT being ALttP's backstory impossible as originally intended, so they had to make some shit up to keep that original intention intact. Unlike the other two timelines, which are squarely rooted in how OoT's ending worked out, this one has no such basis, and as such, the doors are pretty much open for Nintendo to do whatever at this point. If ever they release a game that doesn't fit neatly anywhere, they can now opt for "what if" scenarios to artificially place it wherever they want, cape shit style.

So yeah, needless to say, this is when I left the whole theorizing shtick. It was kind of fun while it lasted, but as many said back then, if Nintendo ever released the actual timeline, it would only end in disappointment and that would take out whatever autistic fun could be derived from the endeavor. So I stopped giving a shit, and I'm sure lots of others did as well, though I'm sure there's plenty of Youtubers who still produce videos about it or whatever

Anyway, that was the story of why the timeline has been seen as a confusing and autistic enterprise not worth bothering with, from my perspective at least. Thanks for reading my shitty blog.

>> No.8450930

>>8450701
>>8450707
>>8450717


The top 2 vanias I have ever wanted are:
-A Bram Stoker's "retcon", using the basis of the novel as its set up, done in a slow, methodical, and I know this will sound retarded since its the other way around if anything, but "2D Dark Souls" style game, like I guess closest would be Haunted House but better, or the 8bit games, slower, more challenging gameplay, where you play as versions of the characters from the novel who all meet up at Dracula's castle and uncover secrets and clues during their stay there, maybe with a count down timer the player needs to finish the game in, while fighting monsters that show up during their exploration into who the Count is. Have an old caretaker of the mansion who is revealed at the end to be Richter who passes on the vampire killer to one of the characters, with a stake connected to it so they can stop Dracula from resurrecting, the whip then gets carried off by the one cowboy dude to his son in Bloodlines.

-a totally linear, but over the top "Rondo of Blood 2", featuring Julius in 1999 in a world-trotting adventure to temples and modern cities and shit trying to stop Judgement Day before the new year when Dracula returns as like the anti-christ or some shit and opens the gates to hell.

>> No.8450932

>>8450917
Sequels to Skyward Sword (same art style for all the games)

>> No.8450935

>>8450743
Not MM, but OoT directly connects to what we see in TP and adds more of an impact to the events of it, MM is separate, but its a continued adventure of the hero from that game and as others are going to say, the Shade was intended to be that original hero carrying on all of his experiences to the next hero.

>> No.8450936

>>8450917
Nowhere. Aonuma specifically stated there's no place for them in official canon. He didn't even know about these games.

>> No.8450943

>>8450852
I really dont see what the big issue was with the original 2 way split with OoT, like the games main theme is all about time travel shit, it seemed like a fairly reasonable ending, if maybe confusing to babies who never saw back to the future or any media based on the concept

>> No.8450949
File: 12 KB, 156x251, 1319751793917.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8450949

>>8450551
Oh hey, my old graphic from a gorillion years ago. Never thought I'd see this again.

>> No.8450956

>>8450917
based on the era they came out and designs used, the creators of them seemed to set them either as the further adventures of nes era link or possibly lttp

>> No.8450957

>>8450572
To be fair, even back around TP's release or so Aonuma often claimed that they had a document laying it all out, and they clearly had the split in mind for TWW. If it wasn't for TP killing off the 'dorf on its end of the timeline (and hell, even then if you ask me), they could easily just have said "the events of ALttP's backstory happened sometime after TP" or some shit. Basically, disconnect OoT from being the IW, and spin that off as its own event. Sure, it would've been a retcon, but it wouldn't have required a fucking third "split" based on a made-up what-if.

>> No.8450969
File: 445 KB, 1280x720, 39.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8450969

>>8450957
>Basically, disconnect OoT from being the IW, and spin that off as its own event.
Okay hear me out

>> No.8450986

>>8450943
It wasn't confusing at all. It's more the fact that TWW itself threw a big-ass wrench into things, and had people wondering how in the everloving fuck you could place ALttP as happening in the same chronology as OoT, the game that was originally meant as its backstory. And there was NO weaseling out of it, either, because TWW made VERY explicit connections to OoT, in fact, the most explicit connection to a previous game of ANY game in the series that's not a direct sequel, and even then it's moreso than some of the older sequels like AoL and LA.

I still recall people proposing at the time that maybe what happened is Ganon, in the timeline where Link goes back to being a child, tries breaking into the SR by force, and that's where the IW happens. It could've worked, too, but TP threw another wrench and fucked it up.

>> No.8450987

>>8450870
>No Link, YOU are the Ganon
>and then Link was the King of Evil

>> No.8451025

>>8450969
i actually wish these games just fucking filled in the blanks of the monster they made, isnt the main baddie some evil time sorceress anyway?

i was also super pissed when this came out and it wasnt the war from before OoT

>> No.8451035

You know one thing I HATE?
How we've gon from a world built by GODS to this feminine bullshit "goddess" faggotry.

>> No.8451046

>>8451035
It goes back and forth all the time. TWW only ever mentions gods, for instance. That's one aspect I wish would get more development, and so far, only SS has delved slightly into it.

>> No.8451047
File: 25 KB, 223x222, the day the timeline died.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8451047

>> No.8451052

>>8451046
past tense of delve is dolve and the past participle (which you should use here) is dolven

>> No.8451057

>>8451052
I would bully you for autistically correcting me, but given where we are and my unhealthy obsession with this topic, I'll just say: k.

>> No.8451062

The third timeline is clearly bullshit that they conjured up on the spot, because some games just didn't fit.

>> No.8451080

>>8450883
There probably was an actual war at some point. I don't think Hyrule's army just gave up to Ganondorf without a fight. You don't see it directly, because it's not the focus of Link's quest.

>> No.8451083
File: 34 KB, 342x192, Zelda Tiers.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8451083

I think the timeline should only include true zelda games. Pic related, everything else is noncanon.

>> No.8451504
File: 106 KB, 960x720, 1605825873053.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8451504

>>8450763

>> No.8451528

>>8450723
The Oracle games and also A Link Between Worlds are a weird mashup of pre-OoT and post-OoT elements, making it difficult to figure out exactly when they take place.

>> No.8451576

>>8450843
WELL EXCUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUSE ME, PRINCESS

>> No.8451580

>>8450906
wtf they both look awesome

>> No.8451584

>>8450930
>slowburnvania and Juliusvania

Based

>> No.8451595

I find the official timeline disingenuous. Older fans will agree, I think. Speculation back in the 2000s was an enjoyable pastime. In-game references to previous titles kicked off creative thought processes. I think it was meant to stimulate players' enjoyment but not have a definitive answer. It's fair to claim there is a timeline. I prefer to employ the Legend moniker to satisfy minor inconsistencies. Overall it is not very consequential to playing the games, but just a little something extra. Claiming there is no timeline at all and each game is a standalone legend is guilty of a similar rigidity as the straight-laced timeline devotees perpetrate.

>> No.8451628

>>8450102
Because not everything needs to be connected,

>> No.8451631

>>8451083
>no ALttP or Link’s Awakening

>> No.8451635

>>8451628
Try telling that to the bones in your skeleton!!

>> No.8451672

Zelda died when it went 3D
Change my mind
You can't

>> No.8451696

>>8450102
now post tony hawk one

>> No.8451715

>>8450551
>>8450576
There was never any good reason for MC to come before OoT

>> No.8451898
File: 40 KB, 640x480, 719F8DDB-0999-45AC-B2ED-35EEED055F19.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8451898

>>8451580
So did Ganon. It was one of the best episodes of the show.

>> No.8451909

>>8450930
Bran Stoker's novel takes place in the 1890s. Richter would have to be something like 120 years old to still be around.

>> No.8451914

>>8451595
The standalone thing isn't as rigid as you're assuming though. Clearly Link's Awakening takes place after something. The franchise is peppered with obvious sequels here and there. But trying to connect OoT with Zelda II, on the other hand, is an exercise in futility.

>> No.8451927

>>8451898
Ganon's weak form design is one of the most obvious "this show was animated in Japan" moments the cartoon had. Dude's practically out of place from the usual freaks and weirdos Captain N usually has.

>> No.8451950

>>8451927
80s era animation outsourcing was a total rollercoaster. Studios like DiC would have five or six animation houses on rotation, all of varying quality, so the show would look wildly different episode to episode. DBZ during the Cell saga would have great looking episodes followed by absolute garbage. Even Batman TAS wasn't immune. Its arguably why Cal Arts got so big. Its super easy to stay on model.

>> No.8452000

>>8451909
Eh, i kinda figured he'd be super old by then, but its not out of the realm of possibility, especially for the Belmont bloodline. Staying around as long as they possibly can, no known lineage of the bloodline left, guarding the secrets of their ancient bloodfeud with Dracula until his next impending resurrection draws in a group of normal individuals into supernatural circumstances and he needs to subtlety guide them and uses last of strength to help before passing on the vampire killer and finnaly allowed to pass on.

>> No.8452057

One thing that really bothers me about pre-OoT games is that Ocarina very definitively set itself up as the reason for the "legend" of Zelda and Ganon existing in the first place, even going so far as to not include the main theme for the series that, in a sense, represents the legend itself and the continuing cycle

But then you have games like SS, MC, etc. that just use the theme freely and that point ends up lost

>>8451914
>But trying to connect OoT with Zelda II, on the other hand, is an exercise in futility.
out of all the examples I'm surprised you went with that one, considering Z2's towns are all named after OoT's sages and the focus on obtaining Triforce of Courage ties in to Link previously having it as his designated piece in Ocarina

>> No.8452072
File: 2.91 MB, 640x480, 1533963282755.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8452072

>>8451950
Oh for sure. I just mean the cute form of Ganon that episode has a very anime look to him. I'm well aware of the multiple studios method of animation, the many hands that could cause a show's quality to swing all over the place.

>> No.8452080

>>8452057
Not quite all of them. Impa does not get a town (obvious, as she is an actual character in the game), Mido gets a town despite not being a sage (though at one point he was going to be, if the OoT beta leaks are to be believed), and there's the Kasuto towns, which correspond to nothing.

>> No.8452089

>>8452057
Don't confuse retcons for any kind of advanced planning.

>> No.8452135

>>8452080
Mido can at least be reconciled with him being the "leader" of his tribe and holding some kind of importance, but yeah it's not technically all of them

>>8452089
Not my implication, just that there's more solid connections between those two games compared to something like Four Swords

>> No.8452149

>>8452057
I get the sense that Nintendo was so hyped on the post-OoT Zelda popularity boom that they rapidly followed up with game after game without considering that OoT was originally meant to be related to the prior games. Something got lost in the process.

>> No.8452176

>>8452149
>OoT was originally meant to be related to the prior games.
Feels to me that while the original intent was to be the ALttP prequel, OoT evolved into something else entirely that ultimately chose to cut ties with ALttP and be its own story, and from there it became the new series standard.

>> No.8452245

>>8452176
True. Like anon said above, it seems like it was half heartedly a reboot of sorts like Star Fox 64. Even to this day Nintendo is really skittish about anchoring their games in what we generally understand as a "series." They have a kind of golden age of animation approach where you'd have characters like Mickey Mouse and Popeye and while the characters stay the same the scenario changes from cartoon to cartoon with thematic consistency tying everything together rather than plot. They effectively treat every franchise like Mario Kart, which helps in that there's no bad time to jump on. If you're a 30 year old or a 10 year old the experience of the new Zelda, Mario, and whatnot is exactly the same.

>> No.8452250

>>8452072
Pretty sure Lana was my first fap or very close to it. 80s era Nintendo, before it went full corporate suit and tie, was based.

>> No.8452261

>>8452176
if the beta is anything to go off of, there were originally more direct ties to other games and firm roots in establishing OoT as the definitive first game, but they were removed in favor of making it more broad

>> No.8452265

>>8450843
At least it wasn't as shit as Captain N who shat all over the games.

>>8451576
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzfXxkHrIBM

>> No.8452268

>>8450165
incel

>> No.8452272

>>8452265
Captain N didn't really do the games all that dirty. Mega Man got fucked (supposedly the tint setting on the TV was wrong making Mega Man's sprite look green to whoever was spot checking the designs) but beyond that most things were either respectable for the very limited source material available at the time or entertaining creative license like making King Hippo look a bit more beastly. Mother Brain, Dr. Wily, and Eggplant Wizard look pretty on the money.

>> No.8452276

>>8450102
It's kind of shitty how bad games all take place before OOT, which was supposed to be the start of the story.

>> No.8452278
File: 23 KB, 482x356, Simon-belmont-captain-n.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8452278

>>8452272
Are you being ironic right now? It is hard to tell when all I see is words on a screen.

They fucked Simon so bad holy shit.

>> No.8452284
File: 71 KB, 960x240, simon.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8452284

>>8452278
Simon was literally the best part of the show so I don't know what you're talking about. I can only wish Konami were willing to make the in-game Simon like that. He's Gaston with a whip.

>> No.8452291
File: 19 KB, 400x298, DE9BC2EE-0530-4793-B396-F4E4F5E1E5E8.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8452291

>>8452272
Funny how they sort of got everything ok and then there’s characters like Alucard and every single robot master that look fucking absurd

>> No.8452302

>>8452284
Maybe not personality, but i always thought his outfit in the show would be good for in his prime Julius.

>> No.8452303
File: 37 KB, 600x448, a37.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8452303

>>8452291
It was a mixed bag for Mega Man 1. Fire Man, Ice Man, and Bomb Man look pretty ok. Guts Man looks like a duck and Cut Man and Elec Man are a mess. The Mega Man 2 robot masters are all insane.

>> No.8452310

>>8452302
Realistically a 19-20 year old in 1999? He'd be a skater punk.

>> No.8452316
File: 29 KB, 640x480, sddefault.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8452316

My favorite Captain N "fuck up" is Gamma, the last boss from Mega Man 3. They went all in on the whole "it's supposed to be for peace, honest" angle which makes Wily using it for world domination hilarious. I wish it looked like this in the game.

>> No.8452331
File: 43 KB, 640x480, ff1bed98bf5d731c3041e856159da8be.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8452331

What does a giant brain in a vat need? Heavy amounts of makeup and lipstick, of course.

>> No.8452447
File: 3 KB, 321x318, Mother_Brain_m1_Screenshot.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8452447

>>8452331
It looks like a pretty good interpretation of the NES sprite though.

>> No.8452448

>>8452331
Mother Brain is decent compared to Ridley

>> No.8452454
File: 15 KB, 256x190, ridley-j.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8452454

>>8452448
To be fair, nobody knew what the fuck Ridley was supposed to look like.

>> No.8452504

>>8452331
And the voice of a black man.

>> No.8452509

>>8452504
FEED ME, SEYMOUR

>> No.8452689

>>8450102
Having an official timeline ruins the fun. Just let people read whatever they want into the lore. The timeline they went with is an especially stupid one, too.

>> No.8452758

>>8450107
It all went downhill with windwanker

>> No.8452769

>>8452310
I was thinking he'd be more like a young, modern Indiana Jones adventurous type traversing the world.

>> No.8452771

>>8452689
Its biggest sin is the third timeline they pulled out of their ass. Other than that, most everything else fits pretty much like most theorists deduced, except maybe the original Four Swords being separated from Four Swords Adventures.

>> No.8452795

>>8452771
I'm sticking with the three Four Swords games being a separate continuity altogether.

>> No.8452848

>>8450906
It's funny, that show exclusively is to thank with the western perception that Ganon is a wizard/warlock.

>> No.8452907

>>8452795
the Toon games might as well be their own universe/timeline

>> No.8452912

>>8452907
Lord knows they shat out enough of them.

>> No.8452913

>>8452907
Yeah, but Four Swords goes out of its way to emphasize that it doesn't use the usual elements of Zelda but rather similar knockoffs.
>Light Force = Triforce
>Four Sword = Master Sword
>Vaati = Ganon (though Ganon does appear with an entirely-different origin in FSA)

>> No.8452921
File: 186 KB, 840x720, 277-2773853_view-samegoogleiqdbsaucenao-veran-zelda-oracle-of-ages-veran.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8452921

>>8450102
its funny the oracle games seem to be considered afterthoughts for this which is odd considering they're like the only games that actually contain anything that a multigame timeline would actually make interesting. picrel definitely looks twili and has all kinds of mysterious sheikah garb despite not being affiliated in any clear way

>> No.8452926

>>8450102
Because it's very obvious that Zelda I and II were the first two and ALttP was literally called Zelda III in development, figure it out.<span class="fortune" style="color:#01d0aa">

Your fortune: You're on the Elf Watchlist.[/spoiler]

>> No.8452928

>>8452921
Nintendo always seemed to have contempt towards the Capcom-made games.

>> No.8452931

>>8452928
Your post taught me that Capcom made Zelda games. wtf

>> No.8452934

>>8452928
I've noticed this as well. My pet theory is that Nintendo were mad about the Oracles being so damn good. Capcom beat them at their own game.

>> No.8452951

>>8452769
>game opens with Indiana Julius exploring some ancient Mayan temple for information on Dracula
>discovers some ancient carvings that depicts Dracula’s castle rising in Europe
>fights a giant reanimated Aztec style statue as the first boss
>next 3 hours is Julius spelunking across South America before Dracula’s castle finally rises and he and Genya storm the place while a huge war breaks out between all the Earth’s governments and Dracula with an army of priests led by Yoko’s mother providing cover fire

We could have had true ludo….

>> No.8452953

>>8452934
nintendo just vehemently rejects all ideas that didn't come out of miyamoto's ass in the mid-80s

>> No.8452971

>>8452953
True lol

>> No.8452982

>>8452926
>You're on the Elf Watchlist
The fuck did you do this time, anon?

>> No.8453480

>>8452913
That new Ganon origin in FSA is precisely what many theorists believed was the crucial link that would make ALttP fit into the post-TP timeline. Too bad they make it end with Ganon getting sealed inside the Four Sword instead of the Sacred Realm.

>> No.8453790
File: 51 KB, 736x414, 91e810151c6ba66b83eb294b7ed67b49--zelda.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8453790

>>8450683
>>8450827
Yep: http://forums.legendsalliance.com/topic/14202-translation-of-japanese-game-texts/page-8?p=385394#entry385394
>>8450186
Basically. They really messed up by having them so far apart from each other. FSA directly references FS Link and Zelda right in the intro, so it's obviously meant to be a direct sequel. TMC and FS being before OoT means that Vaati is unaccounted for in most timelines.
>>8450214
The only way it makes sense as an anomaly is if you take the line about the Triforce resonating as a sign that time was being split into Courage (child Link), Wisdom (adult Link), and Power (dead Link).
>>8450551
It was better in some ways. You got your "OG Hyrule lives/struggles on" and "OG Hyrule is a lost cause" timelines, and it retains the connection FSA was supposed to have with ALttP. Now the "child" timeline just kind of stops somewhat unceremoniously with Ganon being sealed away as the new Vaati. You're telling me that's the seal that's gonna hold? ...Well, okay.
>>8453480
There's also unused text relating to the seven sages and the Master Sword. This was supposedly a remnant of the direction the story was going in before Miyamoto "upended the teatable."
>>8450176
It's been changed so that Oracles takes place after LA, which makes even less sense. There is a sort-of connection with ALBW in that Maple is implied to be one of the older Lorule witches, and one of the minor NPCs is strongly implied to be an older ALttP Link, so they can't do much with the placement of Oracles anymore.
>>8450771
This theory falls apart when you realize TP Link is OoT Link's descendant, and there's no room for that to happen in this scenario.
>>8450669
Got a Link?

>> No.8453925
File: 499 KB, 720x780, link .png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8453925

>>8453790
Sure

>> No.8453936

>>8453790
>It's been changed so that Oracles takes place after LA, which makes even less sense. There is a sort-of connection with ALBW in that Maple is implied to be one of the older Lorule witches, and one of the minor NPCs is strongly implied to be an older ALttP Link, so they can't do much with the placement of Oracles anymore.
To me, Oracles and ALBW are each fully self-contained stories with no direct connection to any prior games (barring maybe a tongue-in-cheek reference here and there). They just can't logically be fit in any of the three timelines.

>> No.8453950

>>8453936
ALBW works if you take the intro's legend of Ganon's defeat (sealing) as just a distorted legend. The current timeline also completely disregards the legend in the ALttP manual about Ganondorf fighting over his band of thieves over the Sacred Realm / Triforce.

>> No.8453953

>>8450120
Ocarina changed so many times prior to release that I'd imagine one of the beta versions of the game had more in common with prior games. Some footage even had the old brown-haired Link.

>> No.8453957

>>8453950
When you think about it, ALBW is more of a sequel to OoT than ALttP.

>> No.8453961

>>8450226
there's a theory that Breath of the Wild inevitably happens in any branch of the timeline, which would make it the closest thing we have to Turn A
i mean unless that's all bullshit, of course

>> No.8454363

>>8450102
I too don't understand the sheer disdain this attracts. I just chalk it up to secondary normies getting upset they have to use half their miniscule brainpower to invest in something.

>> No.8454392

>>8453790
The only thing that really throws a wrench into Oracles taking place as direct sequels to either ALttP or LA is the fact that Zelda and Link do not appear to know each other (Zelda says something to the effect of "You're Link, right? My name is Zelda" when you first meet her in a linked game), which is why many theorists back in the day used to conjecture that they feature a new Link rather than one previously introduced. However, they DO make references to SOME previous game, since the Triforce is whole and in Hyrule, and Ganon is said to be dead, which obviously implies he'd been defeated before either by that Link or one before him. Only two games satisfy these conditions: ALttP and AoL. I THINK they probably did intend to place them after ALttP or LA in some manner, whether as direct sequels to it or as more removed with a new Link like in ALBW, but people leaned toward the latter because of the aforementioned lack of relationship between Link and Zelda, but it looks like they either forgot that tidbit or deliberately retconned it.

>> No.8454403

>>8454363
Nobody is losing sleep over it. That doesn't mean it isn't dumb and pointless.

>> No.8454413

>>8454392
>The only thing that really throws a wrench into Oracles taking place as direct sequels to either ALttP or LA is the fact that Zelda and Link do not appear to know each other
Multiple Zeldas have been a thing since Zelda 2. It's really more of how Link is implied to not have any experience as a hero or even knows what the Triforce is that makes him hard to see as the same Link from ALttP/LA.

There's also how Twinrova is alive and well again after being killed in OoT, characters from Termina like Tingle now existing in Hyrule, and both friendly and monster Zoras co-existing (which Capcom actually did explain as the monster Zoras being an inland species). It feels to me like Capcom was just throwing everything they liked from past games into Oracles without considering whether or not it made sense. Hence why I choose to believe that Oracles is its own story and not part of any timeline.

>> No.8454415

>What is wrong with games having lore?
>>>/tv/
>>>/lit/
>>>/a/
Please stop thinking videoGAMES need story and lore and other bullshit. This is why gaming has gone to absolute fucking shit.
Do you need fucking lore when you play chess? Backgammon? Poker? No? Then guess what, you don't need fucking lore in videogames.

>> No.8454425

>>8454413
Most of the character references to other games can be explained away as just simple fanservice, and none of them except Twinrova are crucial to the plot, and even Twinrova can be somewhat handwaved away if you choose to take their line about "coming back to haunt you" from OoT at face value.

I'd argue there was an attempt to give it a place somewhere, but Capcom didn't take it all that seriously, and I'd argue neither did Nintendo. How did Ganon come back in between ALttP and LoZ? How was OoT supposed to work as the IW from ALttP if Ganon only gets sealed away with the ToP and not the whole thing? Many such cases.

>> No.8454442

>>8454425
>I'd argue there was an attempt to give it a place somewhere, but Capcom didn't take it all that seriously
Which to be fair was for the best. Capcom focused on the game first and the timeline not at all, something that Nintendo should have taken after.

>How did Ganon come back in between ALttP and LoZ?
Didn't the Japanese version of ALttP say that Ganon's death wasn't absolute like the US localization claimed?

>How was OoT supposed to work as the IW from ALttP if Ganon only gets sealed away with the ToP and not the whole thing?
Because in the end, OoT wasn't the Imprisoning War at all. Nintendo decided not to tie it with ALttP in the final draft.

>> No.8454446

>>8450102
Because it's needlessly convoluted. It's a series about an elf fighting a giant pig. It's silly and doesn't need to be taken this seriously where you need to introduce world splitting timelines and alternate dimensions.

>> No.8454454

>>8454415
Please stop thinking videoGAMES need soul and other bullshit. This is why gaming has gone to absolute fucking shit.
Do you need fucking soul when you play chess? Backgammon? Poker? No? Then guess what, you don't need fucking soul in videogames.

>> No.8454456

>>8454442
All the Jap version says is that he'd "fallen", which indeed is different from our "totally destroyed." He still more or less comes out of nowhere, though I suppose we can take into account the fact that AoL had already established Ganon could be revived, and Oracles actually provides another way if we want to take that into account.

>Because in the end, OoT wasn't the Imprisoning War at all. Nintendo decided not to tie it with ALttP in the final draft.

I dunno, anon. There is the bit about Ganon threatening to "exterminate your descendants", and at that time they really could have only been referencing ALttP, which had a heavy storyline focus on Link, Zelda and the maidens being descendants of the people responsible for sealing Ganon away. I highly doubt they were referencing a title they had yet to think up here.

And in the end, they chose to make it so anyway.

>> No.8454457

>>8454413
>Multiple Zeldas have been a thing since Zelda 2.
This is super easy to miss though since it's really a manual-only kind of thing. It's actually weird Nintendo did that since there's nothing in the game that would require it not just be the same Zelda from the original game that got cursed.

>> No.8454461

>>8454415
You see my nigga a video game can't just be fun in its own right, it has to be beautiful too. Otherwise I'm just wasting my time with what amounts to an elaborate musical box. It's just not fulfilling.
>gaming has gone to absolute fucking shit
I'll tell you why gaming isn't as good now as it used to be, but it's not because of storytelling. There's plenty of great genres that have told great stories that are underrepresented today.

>> No.8454465

>>8454456
>There is the bit about Ganon threatening to "exterminate your descendants"
Except he's not Ganon anymore at this point. He's been turned back to Ganondorf and still only has a third of the Triforce instead of the whole thing. The entire point of the Downfall timeline is that Nintendo had to bullshit a way for Ganondorf to get the whole Triforce so ALttP could happen.

>> No.8454480

>>8454465
I'm using Ganon and Ganondorf interchangeably here.

Anyway, my point is, prior to TWW, Nintendo clearly did NOT put that much thought into the timeline beyond vague references. It goes without saying the gameplay came first, the story within the game itself second, and how it fit within the chronology a very distant third. You were not meant to think about it too hard. There were discrepancies at the time and everyone who sat down and tried to piece it together noticed them, but it's telling Shiggy just sort of shrugged when asked about it.

>> No.8454484

>>8454403
That's where you're wrong, on zelda forums, people used to fervently argue there wasn't a timeline or how each game is retelling/legend.

>> No.8454490

>>8454442
>Nintendo decided not to tie it with ALttP in the final draft.
Osawa said post-release that OoT was the Imprisoning War.
https://www.angelfire.com/games5/makzelda/interviews/kiootcomments.html
I don't think it was retconned until TWW's development.

>> No.8454497

>>8454490
He likely forgot all about how Ganon had the whole Triforce in the IW and still in ALttP.

>> No.8454498

>>8450102
First off, lore is so faggoty. Go back to calling it fluff or backstory. Lore gives it an import it doesn't actually have.

Secondly, stop calling it lore.

>> No.8454502
File: 63 KB, 622x447, xhss9.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8454502

>>8454484
>zelda forums

>> No.8454510

>>8454484
For what it's worth, there WASN'T a timeline. That's 100% accurate. It's not like the timeline existed and Nintendo was just playing it close to the chest. The thing just plain didn't exist until some poor intern was told to jam it in sideways for a random book. It annoys people that there's this kind of "ha ha, you see?!" attitude about it when everyone knows it's all nonsense in terms of how it manifested.

>> No.8454519
File: 5 KB, 360x360, angler.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8454519

>>8454510

>> No.8454525

>>8454502
Once upon a time, forums were the place you would discuss these topics.

>> No.8454535

>>8454525
Zelda fans are only barely a step above Sonic fans for petulance. There's nothing they won't argue about.

>> No.8454541

>>8454519
Literally what I'm talking about. People aren't willing to discuss the actual reality of how the timeline came into existence.

>> No.8454545
File: 59 KB, 622x625, zelda_bait.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8454545

>>8454541

>> No.8454569

>>8454510
>>8454541
Perhaps not in the sense that they had it pre-planned out in writing on a document a la George Lucas or that they had all the games laid out on a chalkboard with lines connecting them somewhere in the office, but as each game came out, they usually made it pretty obvious when it took place in relation to at least one other game, and so up to MM and maybe Oracles, even if the connections were vague and details didn't quite match up, you could easily construct a chronology.

Anyway, by the time TWW came out, they did start taking it much more seriously (even if the execution was retarded), and by the time TP came out, Aonuma outright said on at least two occasions that they did have a document laying out how all the games relate to one another. Whether what's on Hyrule Historia is that document or is based on it, we can only speculate.

>> No.8454625

>>8454454
>Do you need fucking soul when you play chess? Backgammon? Poker?
Those games don't have a story though.

>> No.8455261

>>8450920
>unless you count the mention of the Knights of Hyrule being wiped out in ALttP's backstory, and amalgamate them into a single person i.e. Link.
in japanese "knight of hyrule" can be ambigious as to whether it refers to one or multiple people so it might actually work out there
depends on what the actual line and context is of course

>> No.8455265

>>8450313
What's so based about it?

>> No.8455270
File: 459 KB, 911x1627, Zelda.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8455270

I'm starting to feel like the cartoon is the true timeline, too.

>> No.8455283

>>8455261
https://www.zeldalegends.net/files/text/z3translation/z3_manual_story.html

I don't know nip, but two translations here appear to make it pretty clear it was a group of them. But idk.

>> No.8455284

>>455283

>> No.8455290

>>8455283
Also, it's interesting they mention the Master Sword, how they didn't know where it was, and that they started to search for both the sword and a suitable hero to wield it, but ultimately didn't have time for it and had to beat Ganon back on their own.

>> No.8455294
File: 265 KB, 546x800, zelda 42615643_big_p2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8455294

>>8455270

>> No.8455305

>>8455283
oh yeah it's definitely a group of knights in this case

>> No.8455479

>>8455265
Christianity

>> No.8455549
File: 14 KB, 537x124, kishidan.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8455549

>>8455261

>> No.8455712

>>8453957
ALBW started as an ALTTP remake but got changed into a sequel late in development, it's also why the sages share parallels with the ones from OoT instead of being seven Hylian maidens

>> No.8455734

>>8450637
>tax policy
I'm pretty sure toads are basically brainwashed slaves.

>> No.8455754

>>8455479
What's so based about Christianity?

>> No.8455796

>>8450102
>Why so many people dont like the timeline?
Don't know or care.
>What is wrong with games having lore?
Because it's a game not a history lesson. I don't care about Mario's origin story. He's a fat guy in red overalls in some fun games.

>> No.8455986

The timeline doesn't matter. Most Zelda media at the end of the day is purely about showcasing the quest of a Link defeating Ganon, and then usually there's a sequel showing what he did after.
>Zelda 1
>Zelda 2: The Adventure of Link
Link beats Ganon and then stops his resurrection.
>A Link to the Past
>Link's Awakening
Link beats Ganon and the sage who revived him, and then gets lost at sea for a bit.
>Ocarina of Time
>Majora's Mask
Link beats Ganon and then gets lost in a parallel world.
>Oracle of Ages and Seasons
Link FUCKS
>Wind Waker
>Phantom Hourglass / Spirit Tracks
Link beats Ganon and then he and his descendants do other shit
>Twilight Princess
>Link's Crossbow Training
Link beats Ganon and then has to get a job
>Skyward Sword
>Mario Kart 8
Link beats proto-Ganon and then goes kart racing

>> No.8456047
File: 314 KB, 1920x1080, z310.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8456047

>>8455986
>Skyward Sword
>Mario Kart 8
It triggers my 'tism that Skyward Sword is the only game without a sequel or spinoff.
You could've had a totally wholesome family simulator about Link/Hylia repopulating the surface like Hyrule Historia strongly suggests.

>> No.8456248

>>8455796
>I don't care about Mario's origin story.
You should.
https://youtu.be/quQ95LH-fzw

>> No.8456312

>>8453790
>The only way it makes sense as an anomaly is if you take the line about the Triforce resonating as a sign that time was being split into Courage (child Link), Wisdom (adult Link), and Power (dead Link).
Is this official? It's a very cool idea.

>> No.8457452

>>8456248
There not being a dilapidated "Mario Bros." building in New Donk City will always be something I'll hold against Odyssey. It was the closest thing we were ever going to get to Nintendo "canonizing" the whole Brookyln origin; I just wish there was more.

>> No.8457605

>>8456047
I want to populate SS Zelda

>> No.8457970

>>8450140
>>8450137
>>8450120
>>8450107
they had a chronological order the whole time, why do you guys like to spread the notion that's not the case, it's idiotic

>> No.8457972

>>8450102
>What is wrong with games having lore?
Nothing when it's planned. Look at all those time line splits. This is just fucking autism

>> No.8457979
File: 21 KB, 281x384, cart.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8457979

>>8450214
>The link died timeline is such a cool concept
but it's really not, because of this whole prophecy and destiny shit, it's the dumbest thing ever
A COOL THING is when the timeline split in half at the end of Ocarina of Time, because there's a future Link traveled to and did shit in, and then he was sent back in time, to of course do something differently than before, but that future is still up and and absolutely disconnected from the continuity

>> No.8457982

>>8450256
>none of the games have any bearing on each other.......Wind Waker takes place hundreds of years after OoT
lol

>> No.8457990

I don't know why they bothered with this timeline autism in the first place and just didn't say they were retellings of the same legend

>> No.8457996

>>8457990
how would that work, the same legend ends up one telling is about an ocarina, another about flatting against walls, another a sword that splits the hero into four selves, ect
retelling stories doesn't end up like that lol

>> No.8457997

>>8457990
I always thought that was the point of the name 'Legend Of Zelda' - it's like a mythological story that's been handed down through generations, and been altered (different games, different versions of the story) sort of how like in real life, you get different versions of religious tales or things like creation myths, different people consider one version to be true while discarding another, so on and so forth... But it's the things that are common across the different versions that matter, the 'moral' of the story or the parable if you like. Courageous hero saves the day etc. Taking it too literally was never the point, IMO.

>> No.8458158

>>8457990
Because that would make even less sense.

>> No.8458168

Pure ignorance: there was never a timeline. The games all stand alone
Midwit: There is a timeline. Look, Nintendo published it!
Smart person: Some games are clearly sequels or prequels to other games. Some games were clearly never really meant to fit anywhere. Nintendo hacked together an "official timeline" to sell a book, and appease autists.

I don't know how people are still having this discussion.

>> No.8458173

>>8458168
> Some games were clearly never really meant to fit anywhere.
The small number of connections between these titles makes it fun to speculate on how they might fit together even if there's no conclusive answer.
The speculation was also more fun than actually getting an an answer, especially a lame answer.

>> No.8458187

>>8458173
I agree. I would have been so much happier if Nintendo published the sensible version of the timeline, where about half of the games actually fit, and then presented the rest as "tales" or "mysteries".
We really don't need a "link dies" timeline. It's stupid, and actually drags down the entire tone of the franchise into some goofy convoluted sci-fi nonsense.

>> No.8458194

>>8458187
I think it would have been cool if they just published known fragments of the timeline, with the whole picture being left unknown.
Like it's clear aLttP -> OoA/OoS -> LA and WW -> PH -> ST are their own timelines, but where they stand in relation to each other is anyone's guess.

>> No.8458432

>>8457996
They could if its an oral tradition and the only known elements are Link, Zelda, Ganon, and the triforce. We even have similar buffoonery in our real world. Paul Revere did not do what his story says he did. People in Columbus's time did not think the Earth was flat. An old man sitting around a fire telling a bunch of kids the "real" story of the Legend of Zelda, which he heard from his grandfather, who heard it from his grandfather, could easily result in countless variations of the same tale.

>> No.8458448

>>8450131
this is why in all honesty I pick and choose which games are canon and which arent (I guarantee this is what Uncle Ninty wants us to do anyways.) Personally for me, the only games I consider Canon is Skyward Sword, Ocarina of Time, Majoras Mask, Twilight Princess, and Breath of the Wild. Fuck the alternate timeline crap.

>> No.8458449

>>8450137
Remember that Ganondorf was mentioned BY NAME both in-game AND in the manual of LttP

>> No.8458468

>>8453790
The Twilight Princess manga confirmed that the Hero's Shade was the Hero of Time. Had him turn into an older Link with a beard and everything

>> No.8458783

>>8458468
TP (the actual game) was such a fucking waste of narrative potential. Poorly paced, poorly written, unnecessarily cryptic as fuck, leaving out entire bits of necessary backstory or narrative details and just expecting you to accept what is given to you.

I'm NOT saying I want to be spoonfed everything, by the way. You can absolutely leave some things shrouded in mystery. But NOT when the game is supposed to be a sequel to OoT, and does close to nothing to actually CONNECT its events to what happens in TP. TWW goes well out of its way to establish said connection, and even if you'd never played OoT, you would know there is a wider context for why things happened as they did. Not so with TP. And they even went as far as to cut out crucial bits of dialogue that provided some of that wider context, which is even worse. And they left it to a manga to fill in the details, ffs.

>> No.8458790

>>8458783
>And they even went as far as to cut out crucial bits of dialogue that provided some of that wider context, which is even worse.
Oh?

>> No.8458813

>>8458790
https://tcrf.net/The_Legend_of_Zelda:_Twilight_Princess/Unused_Text#Script_Text

You know those Twili you free from their curse and just stand there being useless? You were supposed to be able to talk to them, and it's not much, but they provide more detail regarding their reverence for Midna and their distaste for Zant's usurpation, so we missed out on a bit of world-building.

More to the point is Ganondorf's final monologue, which was supposed to be longer and give some much needed context as to why he, Link and Zelda have the power of the gods, and why this is an unavoidable destiny that is doomed to repeat itself.

>> No.8458820

>>8458813
>More to the point is Ganondorf's final monologue, which was supposed to be longer and give some much needed context as to why he, Link and Zelda have the power of the gods, and why this is an unavoidable destiny that is doomed to repeat itself.
While that makes TP's story make more sense, it also seems to be a predecessor to Skyward Sword's idea that Link/Ganon/Zelda are appointed to perpetually fight each other, which I was never fond of.

>> No.8458828

>>8458820
It's not a good explanation, but it IS an explanation. As they left it, they have the power of the gods (no clue why they never call it the Triforce or its pieces in TP btw, yet another of its weird, cryptic narrative choices) because reasons.

>> No.8458872

>>8454461
>You see my nigga a video game can't just be fun in its own right, it has to be beautiful too.
If you think beauty is found in these little games made by pedophiles who religiously watch little girl animes you're very stupid. Go read Dostoevsky.

>> No.8458879
File: 184 KB, 1200x850, 3r.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8458879

>> No.8458890

>>8458783
I honestly was never bothered by the lack of story in TP. The man of legend does not know he is performing legendary acts. He does not know the whole story or the entire background. He simply performs the acts that will be later cemented in legend.

>> No.8459016

>>8458828
I'm trying to find it, but I recall on the old legends alliance forums that TP did call it the Triforce at least in the Japanese text.
http://forums.legendsalliance.com/topic/14202-translation-of-japanese-game-texts/page-2?p=370794#entry370794
Never mind, I was wrong. I guess saying Ganondorf at least had a "crest" is slightly more direct.

>> No.8459038

>>8458813
>>8458820
For years now, I have figured eventually Nintendo is going to in a future release just outright reveal that Link/TheOGHero, Zelda/Hylia, Ganon/Demise were all created directly from the Triforce. Hylia born from the first sentient races wishing for a being with the wisdom to guide them. Demise born from the wishes of those who opposed the guidelines set out by Hylia and wanted the power to rebel (the often mentioned dark magic tribe). Then finally when full on war is broken out between the two sides and peace looks dim, a final wish for someone with the courage to put an end to the conflict and getting the OG Link.

>> No.8459107

>>8458790
yeah, There was a lot of cut content relating to the lore and the connections to Ocarina of Time cut out due to the fact two versions if the game were being created (the gamecube version and the wii port), which is why twilight princess feels so halfbaked. The manga was started back in 2016 and is still ongoing, it has 40 chapters so far, and its pretty much putting in most of the loreand story elements nintendo wanted the gme to have but was unfortunately cut. It also further expands upon Link and Midna's relationship. I'd highly recommend it, its a good read.

>> No.8459170

>>8450102
Anything made by aonuma the tumor is fuckin trash and belongs in the bin

>> No.8459364

>>8459107
Is the TP manga the only one that does this? Or do the other official Zelda manga also add plot elements?

>> No.8459367

Nintendo-based manga are always weird. They feel very different from the games they're based on.

>> No.8459385

>>8459364
other mangas do that but they are not canon

>> No.8459408

>>8450102
It's an afterthough so the story endup full of plotholes and map problems.

Very few games truly connect to one another.

>> No.8459478
File: 12 KB, 454x459, black goreinu.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8459478

>>8450174
I prefer a Dragon Reborn interpretation of the Zelda games. Some Links are directly linked, like Zelda 1 and 2 and OOT/MM, but when there are "gaps", it can be explained that Link ushers in a long, centuries long golden age of peace and prosperity. Eventually, the wheel of time turns and the legends fade away but his descendent, the Dragon Reborn, comes back to save the world from the reincarnation of Ganondorf. There are no inconsistencies with this at all, even the weird world flooding, because it's entirely plausible that 2000 years of cycles, some of the Links failed and allowed the world to flood. Since the games haven't stopped, even when Link fails to save the world, he at least has a direct bloodline living somewhere, hiding, continuing his divine legact of heroism.

Basically, as long as Link manages to lose his virginity and have a child, the world will never be truly doomed. That, or one of his nephews continues for him, I guess.

>> No.8459515
File: 29 KB, 500x399, 1611615114275.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8459515

Because it's stupid, it turns the games into
>and then
>and then
>but before that
>but before that that
>and then
>and before that
When Zelda games are just
>once upon a time there was a boy called Link and a princess called Zelda in the magical land of Hyrule...
You know, like a fairy tale.
You don't fucking treat prince Charming as a singular character, no, that stupid comic doesn't count you retard, do you?
Each game is a self contained world and possible connections should be treated as a mere magical "what if...?".
Anyone who cares about this stupid shit is an autististic retard.
Fuck "timeline" fags and fuck Skyward Snort.

>> No.8459549

>>8459515
Anti-Timeline fags act like you have to understand and accept the timeline as religion in order for the series to be enjoyable. There is no reason they cant have it, it doesnt effect ones enjoyment if they dont give a shit about fluff, they can still just play the game. But for those who do have interest in the deeper story, it can only help to make them more interesting. "Wow, this is the battle that will directly influence the games I played years ago, that makes this more interesting then just an end game mook!" It can add a deeper impact to what you are playing.

If you want to get mad at the series, get mad at the tards who keep fucking around with the gameplay and release less then stellar games.Skyward is a big pile of shit, but its not because of its timeline placement.

>> No.8459628

>>8459549
>Anti-furry fags act like you have to understand and accept the sexualization as religion in order for the Sonic to be enjoyable. There is no reason they cant have it, it doesnt effect ones enjoyment if they don't give a shit about diapers, they still can just play the game. But for those who do have a furry fetish and the interest in Sonic porn, it can only help to make them more interesting. "Wow, in this game Shadow is more buffed and tanned, this bulge is also slightly bigger than in the fanart I drew 10 years ago, that makes this more interesting than just an end game mook!". It can add a deeper impact to what you are playing.

>If you want to get mad at the series, get mad at the tards who keep making fun of Sonic and review bomb the stellar game. Sonic 06 is not what it used to be, but it's not because of me jerking off to furry porn.

>> No.8459675

>>8459515
Star Wars is a fairy tale too about light vs dark and they have his own timeline why cant games have his own timeline too?

>> No.8459715

>>8450102
Every Zelda game is a gimmicky reboot with the exception of a few direct sequels. Any half assed timeline link is just bs from nintendo so they don't have to come up with anything new. Canon isn't real.

>> No.8459750

>>8459628
Great non-counter point you spent the time to bother typing out.

>> No.8459791

>>8458432
that's not what happens, wtf
if you retell a story over generations it doesn't vary as dramatically as i pointed out, a music instrument doesn't become a sword, it doesn't become someone shrinking down, flattening to walls, ect

>> No.8459816

>>8459628
TP is a much better game if you are a furry

>> No.8459853

>>8458872
>Consoom book
No.

>> No.8461739

>>8458448
I agree, making your own conclusion is in better taste

>> No.8461747

>>8459791
You'd probably be surprised how little early Robin Hood resembles the modern interpretation.

>> No.8461820

>>8450107
This. My only issue with it is that it feels like they just made it up to appease autists. It doesn't feel like it was always meant to be there.

>OoT being a sort of indirect prequel to alttp was the only example of a zelda game being connected to another without being an actual sequel for a long time.
First I've heard of this, though. Care to elaborate? Are there hints at them being connected before all this Hyrule Historia nonsense that I was too dumb to catch?

>> No.8461842

>>8461747
Or most of the Disney canon for that matter.

>> No.8461878

>>8461820
Ocarina elaborates on a few things, like the creation of the triforce, but it's also the imprisoning war from alttp's backstory and the start of the seven sages which would eventually become the wise men and maidens.

>> No.8461916

>>8461820
There's an interview with Toru Osawa right after OoT released that goes into it:
>>8454490

>> No.8462397

>>8461878
Which is all fumbled at the end due to the new rule that the Triforce splits into three when activated and the chosen holders of the pieces have to fight to the death to claim the full power.

>> No.8463296

>>8462397
Yeah, the kind of shit just happens when you're adding to continuity and not paying THAT much attention to details. It's similar to the sheer amount of plot holes the Oracle games create, but the final scene makes it extremely clear they're meant to be prequels to Link's Awakening (even though the official timeline doesn't agree for god-only-knows what reason). You've just got to take things as they are and not fuss too much about the exacts.

>> No.8463305

>>8450102
The issue isn't the games having lore, it's having shit lore that requires you to buy books and read interviews in order for it to barely make sense, if it even makes sense at all, and in this case, the "downfall timeline" doesn't fucking make sense at all. If a third timeline happens in which Link dies, then it's not a time travel story anymore, it's a multiverse where all possible outcomes of a conflict or decision will create a new reality, and it's retarded comic-book shit.

Zelda lore is extremely hollow and never leads to anything meaningful anyway, Nintendo fans just like to pretend that Zelda is deeper than it actually is because it's really all they have in terms of Nintendo games with a story beyond "the evil scrungus stole all the virgins in booboo land".
That and Metroid but once again, weak shit that requires you to read a Manga they couldn't be bothered to localize.

>> No.8464410

>>8463305
At least Metroid is just one timeline and has been pretty easy to keep track of even without the manga.

>> No.8464423

>>8464410
It's one timeline but it feels like they can't keep the story straight regardless.

>> No.8464424

>>8463305
>If a third timeline happens in which Link dies, then it's not a time travel story anymore, it's a multiverse where all possible outcomes of a conflict or decision will create a new reality, and it's retarded comic-book shit.
This is a big one because the ultimate result is the timeline kicks the franchise into a different genre. Fairy tales don't do that multiverse shit.

>> No.8464432

>>8450102
Zelda 1 to Zelda 2 (NES) already had problems with Zelda being totally different from the first game. It was almost a reboot between the 2

LttP (SNES) and LA (GB) could be connected but nothing says that it is.

OoT and MM (N64) are indeed connected

Seasons and Ages are really just the same game Pokemon style (GBC) and not collected to past stuff

Wind Waker (GC and Phantom Hourglass (NDS) are connected

Twilight Princess (GC) makes vague connections to OoT so it could be the first "long term" sequel

Link Between Worlds (3DS) is the 2nd "long term" sequel with Lttp (SNES)

Everything else is just shoe horned in

>> No.8464436

>>8455270
It is. Best Link, Best Zelda, Best Navi (Spryte)

Everything else is just trying to have as much character and still falls flat almost 30 years later

>> No.8465017

>>8464432
>problems with Zelda being totally different from the first game.
It wasn't a problem at all, the game unambiguously explains that the sleeping Zelda was the first to be named Zelda.
>LttP and LA could be connected but nothing says that it is.
Ancient Stone Tablets heavily implied that it took place during LA, after ALttP. Sure, we know it's not a canon game nowadays but it shows Nintendo's intention.

>> No.8465024

>>8465017
It wasn't a problem, but NoA certainly wanted to push the idea that there was only one Zelda thanks to the nebulous wording of the localized intro.

>> No.8465025

>>8464423
It's the story of Ridley in hell, dying each day only to be resurrected the next morning

>> No.8465031

>>8454545
wooooow how was I supposed to know to put bait on 4chan, you seriously need a guide for this

>> No.8465045

>>8465024
Yeah, NoA was something else back then. I still remember that zelda.com timeline with one Link featuring in all the games.
http://web.archive.org/web/20021002111625/http://www.zelda.com/lib_timeline.html