/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.8438934]

Garnet: 1) Runs away from home because she's afraid her mother is trying to kill her and take over the world

2) Risks the lives of many, many people and causes numerous deaths along her flight from the castle (yes, I count all those Black Mages on the ship as deaths)

3) Upon arrival in Lindblum suddenly proclaims that she refuses to believe her mother is evil and trying to take over the world, despite proof of her unprovoked attack on Burmecia, the slaughter of Black Mages, and the attempts to kill the kidnappers

4) Runs all the way home because apparently she wanted to just talk to her mom and DRUGS AND ABANDONS ZIDANE: the guy who loved her

5) Through her stupidity, she gets captured and tortured. Millions of people die from the results of her entirely preventable course of action, and just to rub salt in the wound, she never gets called and chewed out on any of this, especially not by Zidane who should very rightfully be furious and upset with her, after all all he did for her only for her to blow him off.

I sear if the new French cartoon or the potential remake doesn’t remove and change this BS and have her stay by Zidane’s side, I’m going to be pissed.

[Anonymous No.8438961]

what's going on in this thread?

[Anonymous No.8438963]

At least she’s not Rinoa.

[Anonymous No.8438970]

>>8438961
Pointing out a lot IX’s problems that are overlooked by Nostalgia shills.

[Anonymous No.8438978]

>>8438963
No. Rinoa only forced me through one sidetrack of stupidity and it took ten minutes. Quistis forced me through a whole stupid dungeon that ultimately had no effect on the plot except that it established Quistis as incredibly blaise about her duties, but I forgave her because she stopped after that and I was never forced to endure hours upon end of her inner monologues. Garnet rendered the first several hours of gameplay entirely useless because she was a moron and she got entire countries blown up because of her stupid - and she never stopped reminding me of her stupid. Rinoa only threatened HERSELF and other people told her that, constantly. The hero chewed her out within the first disc for being so reckless and impulsive. See, people get on Squall for being a jerk. I love him because it's not often you see RPG heroes saying what you would have said to stupid characters.

[Anonymous No.8438983]

>>8438934
That's pretty credible princess behaviour.

[Anonymous No.8438989]

>>8438983
roastie behavior*

[Anonymous No.8438994]

>>8438963
Rinoa is hotter, unironically.

[Anonymous No.8439042]

>>8438934

[Anonymous No.8439072]

>>8438994
Not really

[Anonymous No.8439229]

>>8438934
6) Has a very tight, soft butt. This invalidates the other 5 points.

[Anonymous No.8439250]

>1
She runs away because Brahne is acting differently. Brahne isn't trying to kill her (at this point) and Garnet has no idea what she's planning.
>2
Bad guys doing bad things is not the fault of the victims of those bad things. The Black Waltz killed those mages, not Garnet. And even if you want to be hyper autistic about playing the blame game, you could just as easily blame Cid for having Tantalus kidnap Garnet in the first place or Tantalus for agreeing.
>3
She doesn't proclaim anything of the sort, she's literally the one that makes the connection between black mages attacking Burmecia and her mother being involved.
>4
Which she does because Zidane (arguably justifiably) patronizes her and refuses to take her along with him. She wants to do something, not be locked up away in a castle, that's the whole reason she wanted to be taken to Lindblum in the first place.
>5
Playing the blame game again, apparently Brahne is a precious snowflake who didn't do anything wrong. It's all Garnet's fault for presenting herself to her.

If you look at her actions from the omniscient player point of view, of course they're not smart, but that goes for literally any story ever written. Stop thinking this way, you're just making yourself angry over literally nothing.

[Anonymous No.8439634]

Everything bad that happens in that game is ultimately Brahne's fault, because she is fat.

[Anonymous No.8439647]

>she acts nonsensically, based on whims, and ruins everything
so a very realistic portrayal of a teen girl?

[Anonymous No.8439689]

>>8438934
She has that latina shortstack look though so I forgive her.

[Anonymous No.8439692]

>>8438961
>pic
Wow that's uncalled for, Garnet was dumb as brick but she didn't fucking stab Zidane in the back cause she remembered she wanted to fuck Kuja in Disc 4 suddenly because FF9 switched directors

[Anonymous No.8439931]

>>8438934
>>8439042
Tits are better than asses.

[Anonymous No.8439959]

>>8438934
>jrpg meant to appeal to japanese children has bad writing and character development, and characters overcome all obstacles and past transgressions through the power of friendship
wow shocking.

[Anonymous No.8440019]

>>8439959
Yeah pretty much.
The biggest problem with FF9 is the amount of time I'm forced to deal with all this shit instead of being able to play the game. At least in the SNES games the bad story just comes and goes.

[Anonymous No.8440047]

>>8439692
you know, as horrible as nina is, given that it was kou vs gato can you really blame her?

[Anonymous No.8440257]

>>8439931
You really wanna open that can of worms, buddy?

[Anonymous No.8440260]

>>8439250
Regarding Garnet, what war was she trying to prevent? The one that had already started? The one she knew her mother was starting and had created monsters to wage? Hell, the war she ran away from home over? If her mother was so darn pleasant that Garnet could have just talked her out of it, why run away from home in the first place? How much more evidence did she need, combined with what she'd already known about her mom that drove her out of the castle in the first place?

What drives me nuts is up until that point, Garnet could have had potential to not suck. At the start of the game, she brilliantly works out an escape plan and improvises a way out on a dime. If that was the Garnet we got for the rest of the game instead of the girl that doesn't know what knives are and thinks evil megalomaniacs can be reasoned with by returning without anyone to back her up, I would have loved her. Instead she devolves into a really clichéd naive princess stereotype and just never recovers.

[Anonymous No.8440287]

>>8439647
>>8439250

Garnet ran from Brahne based on her own evidence, her own experience and her knowledge that staying is worse for herself, her mother, its citizens and the entire world. It aligned PERFECTLY (but coincidentally!! lol!) with her uncle's, Regent Cid of the other powerful trade nation Lindblum, plan to use the troupe Tantalus to "kidnap" her away from what HE, TOO, could tell was an increasingly psychopathic queen of Alexandria.

The game proves both of these royals' decision to have Garnet leave and not return was the best choice for absolutely everyone involved. But Garnet has a sudden mood-switch and acts like a child, ordering her personal knight to guide her back to the Queen just to talk to her and have no other goal whatsoever, thinking it'll all be fine despite all the compounding, building and extreme level of evidence proving at every step this was the wrong decision to make causing her mortal risk when she was otherwise entirely safe (and loved).

All this ends with the completely obvious result: Garnet loses everything, MILLIONS if not more are murdered with absolutely no cause or reason why, specifically because of the impossibly powerful magic Garnet, herself, knew she would be giving directly to this queen. Destruction, all by ignorant and dismissive choice, which renders the entire first 2/3rds of the in-game political and social actions utterly pointless to no positive outcome. The last 1/3rd of the game is simply fantasy where nothing mattered to begin with, it was all just Kuja using emotions to kill everyone faster due to orders, the characters of the game all were completely irrelevant. Only the reaper and Garland's thousands upon thousands of years of experience mattered.

But hey, pear-shaped ass, amirite?

[Anonymous No.8440302]

>>8439250


>Which she does because Zidane (arguably justifiably) patronizes her and refuses to take her along with him. She wants to do something, not be locked up away in a castle, that's the whole reason she wanted to be taken to Lindblum in the first place.

Yeah I found that scene to be very out of character for Zidane, this is the same girl he left Tantalus over and yet he’s just going to leave her in Lindblum and not consider her feelings, and Leeroy Jenkins it into Bermicia? That was just forced drama.

[Anonymous No.8440412]

ff9

[Anonymous No.8440418]

>>8440260
>what war was she trying to prevent?
None? Again, she didn't know what Brahne's plans were. Please read.
>If her mother was so darn pleasant that Garnet could have just talked her out of it, why run away from home in the first place?
Cid was very close with Garnet's dad, the very same dad whose death triggered Brahne's current state. She was hoping Cid could talk to her.

I don't know why you think there's a line between "being able to judge that you can swing from a decoration onto a ship" and "being able to judge whether your mom is evil and make perfect decisions after being treated like a kid by the two people you confided in". If a character does one thing well, do they need to be able to do everything well in your head?

[Anonymous No.8440482]

>>8440287
>her knowledge that staying is worse for herself, her mother, its citizens and the entire world.
>the impossibly powerful magic Garnet, herself, knew she would be giving directly to this queen
You sure do like to prescribe a lot of player knowledge to Garnet for some reason. She didn't leave for anything other than to have Cid talk to her, and she had no idea Brahne wanted her eidolons.
>But Garnet has a sudden mood-switch and acts like a child
Why is this a bad thing? She was already frustrated at her own helplessness and then was denied when she wanted to stay with the party.
>the characters of the game all were completely irrelevant
The characters are the entire focal point of the game's storytelling. It's all about what "life" means to the characters. And the first 2/3rds of the game are vital to 6 of the 8 characters' arcs.

[Anonymous No.8440484]

>>8440418
She quite literally goes back and hands her entire selection of eidolons to her mother after all the hard work Zidane and Tantalus did to get her ass out of the kingdom. In the end Garnet is the one responsible for giving her mother magic nuclear weaponry that annihilated two countries, seriously hurt Lindblum and then Alexandria itself killing god knows how many people.
But hey, we're talking about a game where a war criminal is never confronted about the shit she did and is left to stay as an unbeatable mary sue.

all of this is evidence that Garnet was right. She thought her mother was going nuts and got proof by her mother firing on the ship and sending murderous assassins after her. Risking those people's lives would have been tragic, but not necessarily something to attack her for if she hadn't completely thrown it all away for absolutely no reason later.

>None? Again, she didn't know what Brahne's plans were. Please read.

But she ran away from home because she knew her mother was going crazy. It's not such a sudden about-face, Garnet already knew this was going on and was frightened enough that she ran away from home rather than actually talk to her mother (something you'd assume someone that had an otherwise perfect relationship with their mother would do first). Had all of the stuff we'd just witnessed not happened, and Garnet had come to Lindblum without ever fearing her mother or seeing evidence of her mother's atrocities, then the "My mother isn't evil!" reaction would make sense.

But by this point, she knows her mother is beyond reason. She knew that because she didn't even try to reason with her when she had the opportunity. Why would her reaction upon having all of these suspicions confirmed, piled onto all the things she just witnessed, be to suddenly decide her mother is reasonable after all and could simply be talked down?

[Anonymous No.8440489]

>>8440418

>I don't know why you think there's a line between "being able to judge that you can swing from a decoration onto a ship" and "being able to judge whether your mom is evil and make perfect decisions after being treated like a kid by the two people you confided in".

She WAS acting like a child, and to make matters worse, Zidane never rightfully calls her out on drugging and abandoning him, If I were Zidane, I would have been really upset with her after losing a close friend in the attempt to rescue her only for her to decide to blow me off and make the whole sacrifice meaningless.
Rinoa would have been called out on it and forced to learn. Garnet wasn't. That's why I cut Rinoa some slack - at least the characters treated her the way I would have. The game and I were on the same wavelength.

[Anonymous No.8440498]

>>8440482
>Why is this a bad thing? She was already frustrated at her own helplessness and then was denied when she wanted to stay with the party.

Helpless? She did a lot of help such as healing and driving the airship through the gate, her moping about being “helpless” was just annoying forced drama and Sakaguchi’s bad writing (Sakaguchi is better as a producer than a writer).

Also Zidane “denying” Garnet was really out of character, again see >>8440302

[Anonymous No.8440505]

>>8440418
>Cid was very close with Garnet's dad, the very same dad whose death triggered Brahne's current state. She was hoping Cid could talk to her.

Than why did Garnet decide to run back WITHOUT his help?

[Anonymous No.8440526]

>>8438963
Why the hell is Rinoa Heartilly one of the most hated character in the franchise and Garnet is not? Rinoa makes you take one 5 minute detour so she can do something stupid and got caught by the villain thus requiring a quick rescue that doesn't change the fate of anyone or anything. Garnet makes you get one of your allies get turned to stone and puts all of your lives in danger, all to escape her crazy mother with a dangerous kidnapping attempt...than suddenly decides her mother was really a nice person that would stop being a genocidal murderer if she asked nicely instead of the evil scary monster that she put you all through hell and back to rescue her from...then ungratefully poisons everyone in the party, especially Zidane, the man who loves her, so she can go home and get captured again and placed in the evil ceremony that she was escaping from in the first place, thus getting even more people killed by her stupidity and ultimately giving the villains the weapons they use for the majority of the game to slaughter as many people as possible. And the player has to actually follow her through hours of gameplay of getting her to the damn Alexandria castle and then rescuing her. And nobody ever calls her out for it. We're actually supposed to feel sorry for her.

[Anonymous No.8440529]

>>8438963
Garnet asked Cid for help because she knew her mother was going crazy, hence she planned on the escape. Therefore, Tantalus and Zidane risked their lives for her and she thanked them and Zidane by changing her mind after actually being given proof that she was right about her mother going on a genocidal rampage. And Squall and Rinoa had a real developed romance while Garnet and Zidane fell in love for being within five feet of each other for a long period of time despite Garnet ABANDONING HIM and blowing him off. Garnet pushed "naive princess" to insane levels - Rinoa was actually plausible and realized when she got in over her head (end of Disc 1, she flipped out when she realized her actions had consequences). I remember Rinoa as a fully fleshed out character with flaws and good points despite getting chucked a Distress Ball for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I remember Garnet doing this to herself over and over. It also bugs me that she's not supposed to be the main character, but almost the entire plot is about her, her whining about how she sucks, and her getting other people killed. Really interesting characters like Freya and Eiko get ten whole seconds of plot, especially Freya since her plot is never resolved.

[Anonymous No.8440552]

>>8440418
It’s called consistency, Garnet had to be taught how to say “let go of me!” or what crepes and knifes were despite being highly educated and intelligent, look at Marle from Chrono Trigger she had knowledge of weapons and blending in public despite being cooped up the castle most of her life.

[Anonymous No.8440559]

>>8440552
*Crops

[Anonymous No.8440584]

>>8440482
>You sure do like to prescribe a lot of player knowledge to Garnet for some reason. She didn't leave for anything other than to have Cid talk to her, and she had no idea Brahne wanted her eidolons.

Cid did, he very clearly says in Lindblum on Disk 2 that he knew Brahne was after the Eidolons, look at the script if you don’t believe me, so there’s that bullshit.

And even if Garnet is right, that "mom isn't evil, there's just something controlling her to act this way," she's making a HORRIBLE mistake to think the same scenario couldn't happen to her, too. To go back and have her controlled to use the known strong Eidolon Summons she had the ability to summon. You don't give yourself to the enemy, regardless of how weak or strong you think your assets are. She made the choice to go back anyway, and it turned out even worse than people predicted.

Being wrong, or young, won't absolve Garnet's choice to go back after successfully leaving. She wasn't even uninformed, even if you can claim she wasn't omniscient. There was zero, absolutely zero reason to return beyond, "let me appeal to the villain by begging them to just stop."

[Anonymous No.8440593]

>>8440482
>The characters are the entire focal point of the game's storytelling. It's all about what "life" means to the characters. And the first 2/3rds of the game are vital to 6 of the 8 characters' arcs.

Yeah no, their arcs are either cliché, unfocused or pretentious.

Freya’s subplot got dropped, it was never explained how Fratley got amnesia, he only gets one scene of action and then randomly effs-off for no reason, not even bothering to help fight Beatrix and the whole thing gets booted to the side with what could be described as a twist tie of a resolution. Kuja’s connection with Treno gets dropped and well as the apparent involvement Treno had with the mages and the war, Zidane’s whole angel of death thing of course mostly goes nowhere, along with Mikoto, and of course Amarant having a non-interesting and cliché arc, there is a fanfic that gave him a better backstory. There is no build up and lead-in to Cid and Hilda adopting Eiko, we get no bonding and connecting subplots with them.

Steiner's whole schtick got old real fast and he was just a stereotypical Flanderization of previous knight characters such as FFVI's Cyan and Chrono Trigger's Frog/Glenn who were way more subtle. Steiner and Beatrix's whole relationship was really forced, they've never really had any real chemistry (especially in disk 1 and 2 where during the kidnapping they barely gave each other a second thought, and Beatrix didn't show much concern that Steiner was gone and during the fight with her in disk 2 she treats him like dirt and a traitor up until her spontaneous and forced heel face turn, but I'll get to that).

[Anonymous No.8440602]

>>8440593
He would have been better developed if he was the one that went with Freya to Burmecia and, you know, actually witness for himself the atrocities that the Queen was committing (who should have been Beatrix mind you) and actually have some interaction and relation to fellow Burmecian knight Freya (and since she actually knew Zidane a bit, she would try to make Steiner better understand Zidane), and when encountering Beatrix, have actual drama and conflict and delve into their relationship, instead of having to pull us through a really long and pointless subquest that had a extremely obvious conclusion and drag out his painfully oblivious, unlikable and obnoxious, cliché personality that nobody wanted.

The Black Mages being made from the mist which is actually the souls of the Gaians which would mean the Mages are actually resurrected Gaians in artificial bodies but instead of the game going down and exploring that much more interesting route they go for the cliché blade runner knock off and melodrama with the Mages instead, Beatrix being a poorly written discount Cecil/Celes and an unbeatable Mary Sue.

[Anonymous No.8440609]

>>8439647
Zidane is a teen too, heck Eiko is only six yet she never does anything like that.

[Anonymous No.8440619]

The biggest plot hole of all is why did Garland even NEED an “angel of death” when he already has the Invincible to do all the work of speeding up the soul transfer cycle, he could just nuke every densely populated area on Gaia with the Invincible, the Invincible is such an over powered weapon with hardly any limitations considering that not even ALEXANDER, the most powerful of Gaia’s Eidolons couldn’t even stand up to it, the same Alexander we saw easily defeat Bahamut. Why was Garland even so afraid of the Eidolons when his own warship exceeds their power, can easily enslave them and even wipe out the whole village of their summoners? It’s not like the Gaian airships can stand up to it since they all have to run on mist and are nowhere near as advanced.

And there is other bs too like why didn’t Kuja focus on achieving Trance from the very start, it’s not like Trance is rare knowledge considering that even Steiner has heard of it and Kuja clearly has a library of books.

[Anonymous No.8440630]

>>8438934
One of the most irritating things about IX is that it likes to pretend Zidane and Garnet's love story is one of the main focuses when it really isn't, the main theme is a love song (Melodies of Life) which plays constantly throughout the game (not just the credits) and even serves as the world map theme (until disk 4 anyway) and just listen to how the lyrics make it out to be, just look at some of the advertising, a lot of the tv ads have the song playing and a majority of the scenes shown are Zidane and Garnet (which probably makes up a majority of the amount of focus it actually gets in the game).

[Anonymous No.8441658]

>>8438983
Actually true.

[Anonymous No.8441664]

>>8440047
>Kou
>Too autistic to even get a 1st date going
>Gato
>Pic rel

[Anonymous No.8441980]

>>8438934
>Runs away from home because she's afraid her mother is trying to kill her and take over the world
not why she ran away, she ran away because she didn't feel comfortable at home. Her mum had been moody for the past year and royalty bored her.
>Upon arrival in Lindblum suddenly proclaims that she refuses to believe her mother is evil and trying to take over the world
Her working assumption is that a third party like Kuja is manipulating her

In short OP has tangible intellectual disabilities

[Anonymous No.8442008]

>>8441664
Kou dodged a bullet. Gato did too by dying. Nina is damaged goods and a massive cunt, so they were both better off alone

[Anonymous No.8442580]

>>8441980
>not why she ran away, she ran away because she didn't feel comfortable at home. Her mum had been moody for the past year and royalty bored her.

No, also that is an incredibly weak reason to want to run away from home.

[Anonymous No.8442597]

>>8441980
>Her working assumption is that a third party like Kuja is manipulating her

Okay then the real reason she should have ran away from home was to find out who he was and go after him, instead of “running away but then randomly deciding to run back”, we literally just go in one big circle.

[Anonymous No.8442603]

>>8441980
>In short OP has tangible intellectual disabilities

Piss off, what should have happened was it should have been a scenario like the one in VI where after fighting Ultros in the river you play through three scenarios (that you get to choose to do in whatever order), after the wounded guard comes in, first scenario: Zidane, Garnet and Vivi go to the outer continent to find out more about the Eidolons (also because Cid instead of being an idiot, TELLS Garnet about the Eidolons and that the Queen is after them, the info that Cid KNEW from the start, and also told them more information about Kuja and his visits to the outer continent) and to find Kuja and go after the source of the problem.

Second scenario: Freya, Steiner and (eventually) Quina go to Burmecia to aid them, making more sense since they’re experienced Knights, it would have also gave more development between Beatrix and Steiner, instead of Steiner being absent from Beatrix’s actions during that point (also Beatrix would be the Queen and Garnet’s mother instead of the stupid Brahne)

Third Scenario: The Tantalus crew go to Dali to destroy the Black Mages factory: it never made sense how Tantalus found out about Blank’s petrification so quickly, they couldn’t have still been in the forest when it happened since they would be petrified too, and they couldn’t have been nearby otherwise they would have joined up with Zidane and Garnet in the Ice Cave, instead they don’t find out about it until they get back to Lindblum and Z&G tell them about Blank, so they find out about the Supersoft and make plans to go to Treno, and Cid asks Baku to destroy the BM factory in Dali on the way to weaken Alexandria’s forces (you know, ACTUAL STRATEGIES, instead of just forgetting about that whole factory?!).

That scenario would be way more interesting than what the actual game gave us.