/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.8418593]

Dude, this is literally the greatest fighting game ever made, how can anything even compare?

[Anonymous No.8418625]

Suck my nuts OP.

[Anonymous No.8418810]

>he thinks bing bing wahoo shit is a fighting game

[Anonymous No.8419074]

>>8418593
greatest fighting? id argue greatest game to ever involve competition ever made. actual peak competitive game design right here, and it ONLY couldve been made by accident. legitimately a wonder of a game. it's the only game that really fully takes advantage of the digital nature of video games, and in that, it's the fullest fulfillment of requirements of what "esports" should actually be.
>god tier party gameplay that established the series as THE party game
>tons of customizable rules, from 4 separate games modes to a decent size of special game modes
>new to the game? you already know at least like 3 or 4 of the characters from popular culture, because it's nintendo icons. recognizable fighters make for more fun, and enable smash bros as a series to become the greatest possible celebration of video games
>singleplayer modes arent excessive. about 30 hours to "complete" on average. you can go even further if you wish with arcade challenges like stadium, multi-man, or even high scores or speedruns in the main modes.
>easy as fuck to pick up and play. this game says fuck learning the concept of motion inputs. you do directions; they do move. two buttons to shift which type of move. amazingly low skill floor to allow fun from even the plebs
>this game is analog as fuck. it takes full advantage of every part of the gamecube controller. it has become the smash bros controller for a reason. glitches discovered only enhanced the game's strengths. the skill ceiling is so high that the competitive scene still grows in size and skill after 20 years, lasting twice as long as any of the other options.
if you're designing a game with competition involved, take notes. everything you need to do is laid out in this game, but you must also cope with the fact that it's perfection you CANNOT achieve. it's the chess of vidya.
the only thing that tops it is project+, which some people argue doesnt count due to it being a mod to fix where brawl messed up.

[Anonymous No.8419236]

[Anonymous No.8419246]

Naruto Clash of Ninja series are the best fighters for the purple lunchbox.

[Anonymous No.8419248]

>>8418625
based

[Anonymous No.8419285]

>>8418593
This was the peak of party multiplayer for me, it fix every issue with the n64 version. Later we tried it on wii and it just didn't seem fun for some reason.

>>8419074
I used to just put items to max at party's.

[Anonymous No.8419310]

>>8418593
It's more of a party game to me than a straight fighting game, but yeah it's still really fucking good.

(I always liked Brawl better honestly but I can't say that out loud)

[Anonymous No.8419358]

>>8419246
Are 3 and 4 worth it?

[Anonymous No.8419561]

>>8419074
Project + has patches, so it loses out to Melee because of that. A truly competitive game cannot have "piece-specific" upgrades or downgrades, as it creates uncertainty, and disincentivizes players from pushing the competitive format to its limits. All of Melee's "updates" have been universal patches, meant to bolster the game itself, rather than bring, for example, downtrodden characters to the forefront.

[Anonymous No.8419570]

>>8419561
PAL?

[Anonymous No.8420586]

>>8419561
fair enough. maybe they shouldve just kept pushing on with 3.6.
this is an issue i havent settled on, because i think project+ has amazing gameplay because of the patches.
im just not sure if young competitive games should make small changes with maybe a large one every 3 or 4 years for the sake of continued interest and fun, or if they should stay consistent for the sake of competition.
i do lean a bit more towards what you're saying though due to how updates for games like overwatch, tf2, sfv, and smash 4 turned out

[Anonymous No.8420595]

I found a mod that removes the need to L-cancel but are there any mods that allow you to attack while running without wavedashing? I prefer Melee's aesthetics but Ultimate's balancing and gameplay

[Anonymous No.8420669]

>>8420595
As a past 4/Ultimate player...

The answer you aren't looking for:
Practice Melee. Ultimate is going to feel worse and worse as you get better. There's a reason that Smash Ultimate pros have expressed preference for Smash 4 despite that game having worse balancing. Ultimate's gameplay unnecessarily helps the casuals who won't notice the intricacies, while hurting competitive play. It's not the same level of insult that Brawl was, but it's still bad and Nintendo is against any effort to improve it.
When you spend more time with Melee, you really won't even care about the balancing. Characters have much more depth than they do in Ultimate, and they allow for a variety of playstyles. At local levels, over half the cast is still very viable. There's at least 14 characters you can get results with. When it comes to being the best of the best, theres still like 6 solid choices, and 4 okay choices, all having extremely different styles with varying depth, and they're probably covering the archetype you wish to play. You're also going to adjust to the gameplay, which is initially hard because of the lack of a heavy buffer. People who have trained with Melee have grown to appreciate L-Cancelling and wavedashing for how they flow with the rest of the movement. Simplifying the movement makes actions feel much more stale and weightless.

The answer you are looking for:
Play Project+ or Project M. They have everything you are looking for; the balance, slide smashes (and DACUS), and auto L-Cancel.

[Anonymous No.8420691]

>>8419358
I only owned one and two so can't give my opinion. Those naruto and dbz games were almost always an improvement though (same gameplay bigger roster)

[Anonymous No.8420758]

>>8418593
smash will never be a fighting game.

[Anonymous No.8421754]

>>8420758
SWNBAFG

[Anonymous No.8421769]

The hard redpill to swallow for many is that, yes, Smash is a fighting game. Just not a Street Fighter-like.
When you really think about it, many fighting games are very different. Street Fighter and Virtua Fighter aren't really similar outside of the fact you can beat your opponent and perform combos. Same thing with Smash.
In some things, Smash is similar to SF, and in others, more similar to VF, but it's also its own thing. Still has the core elements of a fighting game (namely movesets, special moves, combos).
I know, I know
>but nintendo! but mario! those CAN'T be in a fighting game
well, sorry?

[Anonymous No.8421796]

>>8421769
it's a platform fighter, clearly different from traditional 2D fighters but still carries the fundamental mechanics of a fighting game at its core
it's widely accepted, calling it not a fighting game is just for the memes and to make the players mad

[Anonymous No.8421825]

>>8418593
it definitely has a lot of arguments in its favor for best fighting game of all time. Retards that think otherwise simply don't understand it or its capabilities.
Its a shame kids that never played it think Ultimate is even remotely close to as competitive.

[Anonymous No.8421859]

no items
fox only
final destination

[Anonymous No.8422053]

>>8421769
>well, sorry?
kek

[Anonymous No.8422152]

I wish I could get good at Smash. Something about it just does not click with my brain. Still might grab the original now that I have a N64 though.

[Anonymous No.8422171]

Oh look, smash tards think they are relevent becasue baby's first whack whack.
No dipshit, 3rd strike or even super turbo are infinitely better, you're just a fucking idiot manchild.

[Anonymous No.8422179]

>>8422171
Why? Shittier characters, Shittier gameplay, shittier everything.

[Anonymous No.8422201]

>>8418593
I beg to differ.

[kaiba No.8422216]

>>8420758
you will never be a wolfman
>>8422171
>3rd strike
doesnt even know the best version of sf3 and thinks his opinion matters

[Anonymous No.8422223]

>>8420758
you will never be a wolfman
>>8422171
3rd strike isnt even the best sf3

[Anonymous No.8422358]

>>8422223
>3rd strike isnt even the best sf3
you seriously think 2nd impact is better? because no way its ng.

[Anonymous No.8422390]

Dude, it’s literally not a fighting game. Get better taste , there are so many actual fighting games out there.

[Anonymous No.8422398]

The first one was alright, but pic related is much better.

[Anonymous No.8422419]

>>8418593
I'm amazed by the comp scene still kicking and realize that it is the things that Ultimate failed to do.
The superior sounds, the lack of sword dominance, the camera. Only if the roster was more balanced would this be perfect.

[Anonymous No.8422430]

>>8422201
Disagree because the pixels did not age well. The roster is quite balanced though.
>>8422398
Does not seem balanced in the comp scene. The screen flashes really gets old.

[Anonymous No.8422440]

MORE LIKE SMELLEE! IT STINKS IN HERE

[Anonymous No.8422464]

>>8420669
Ultimate is a snore fest competitively. It failed badly when even the competitor's started to get bored of what they play.
Brawl has a lot going that makes for a fun to watch the comp scene. It is that simple and that is why more are watching it still. If only it gets an update.

[Anonymous No.8422776]

>>8418593
In terms of competitive play yes

[Anonymous No.8422792]

>>8420669
Do people really prefer Smash 4 over Ultimate? I feel like they have a similar meta. Admittedly I was much more of a 4 pro than Ultimate but they still seem similar enough. I’d argue 4 even takes less skill. Elaborate on that, I’m curious

[Anonymous No.8423221]

>>8422792
Ultimate pretty much traded the interesting neutral baked into even what were the worst Smash games for awkward spammy jousting. Not only that, but they removed a lot of interesting movement options, and made some important actions harder to perform in their efforts to make the game overall easier to perform. Oh, and the buffer system is atrocious, making the game have the worst input lag of any Smash game to date (see pic. And this isn't even counting the buffer added online.)
I think that this video compiles arguments for what I said above pretty well
https://youtu.be/VoMam_nH_54
It also has a followup he put out later to see if updates would address the problems in the game. https://youtu.be/25eadfjiKjw
To summarize that later video: the updates actually did make some okay changes, but they were far too minor. The game barely changed as a result. The updates could've been much more substantial and could've fixed some small issues that cause big problems, but they were pretty inconsequential instead.

[Anonymous No.8423341]

Smash bros is little kid shit, There is a multitude of better fighting games.

[Anonymous No.8423401]

>>8423341
Based mature gamer

[Anonymous No.8423467]

>>8418625
Here's another one.

[Anonymous No.8423582]

>>8418593
but that's a party game

[Anonymous No.8423593]

Imagine the toddlers in this thread playing an actual fighting game against seasoned fighting game vets.

[Anonymous No.8423595]

I’m fine with Smash being known as a party game.

[Anonymous No.8423597]

The controls are floaty garbage, and relies more on ring outs than actual fighting.

[Anonymous No.8423602]

>>8423593
>westie garbage
Get that crap outta here.

[Anonymous No.8423614]

>>8423602
Yeah, because melee is very balanced... that shitty game got rektd with each new installment.

[Anonymous No.8423626]

Smash is my favorite party game that my friends who won't learn to play fighting games think is a fighting game. And my power level is even too high in smash for them. Oh well

[Anonymous No.8423648]

>>8418593
Unironically, its biggest flaw is that it's too hard for its own good

[Anonymous No.8423839]

[Anonymous No.8424921]

>>8423648
git gud

[Anonymous No.8425101]

>>8421769
Exactly. Why shooters have so many subgenres yet a fighter have to be either Street Fighter or Tekken to be consider a fighting game?

[Anonymous No.8425107]

>>8422390
if it's not a fighting game then what is it?

[Anonymous No.8425112]

>>8425107
a scot-fighting game

[Anonymous No.8425127]

There will never be a Smash as good as the first one, but if I really want to play a pure fighting game I’d choose Street Fighter 2, or Tekken, MK3, basically anything but Smash. The thought of putting actual effort and practice into a Smash Bros. game will never be anything but sickening to me

[Anonymous No.8425140]

>>8425127
That's exactly how I feel about it. I've seen the investment that it takes to get really good at smash and I'm content with just being good enough to beat all of my friends. If I'm gonna spend time practicing in a fighting game I'd rather do it in a traditional 1v1 2d or 3d game.

Also, I think if we're going to call smash a fighting game that we have to call it a platform fighter or something.

[Anonymous No.8425327]

>>8422419
>lack of sword dominance
pain

[Anonymous No.8425335]

>>8425327
to be fair, he is the only good sword character, as opposed to ultimate which is full of generic weeb swordsmen

[Anonymous No.8425337]

>>8425127
>Thinks Smash 64 is best
>Thinks MK3 is good
Holy shit this is bad.

[Anonymous No.8425408]

>>8418593
>trash bros
>fighting game
LMAO

[Anonymous No.8425979]

>>8418593
found my old memory card for this a couple of years ago. put in about 850 hours with my cousins.

[Anonymous No.8426135]

>>8420595
Yes, it's calling getting gud

[Anonymous No.8426438]

>>8425107
a party game

[Anonymous No.8426463]

>>8420669
I'm mainly a 64 player and I hate L Canceling, it's obnoxious having to press L after every aerial near the ground. It's not fun or interesting, it's just a chore

[Anonymous No.8426465]

Guilty Gear +r chads always winning

[Anonymous No.8426917]

>>8426465
Guilty Gear and Umineko are for tranny niggers.

[Anonymous No.8426929]

>>8426438
a party game where you fight eachother
hmmm

[Anonymous No.8427714]

>>8426929
>>8419236

[Anonymous No.8427880]

It really is a fantastic game - shame a lot of its players are smelly autists, transgenders, and literal motherfuckers. Commie-fornia/Twitter woke-ism is also starting to take hold. It makes me feel gross even playing from home.

[Anonymous No.8427889]

>>8427880
isn't only Magi trans?

[Anonymous No.8427919]

>>8427880
>starting to take hold
newfag the melee community has been getting contaminated since the doc from like 2014.

[Femicuccu Prime !yaQQSuHkhY No.8427938]

>>8418593
My all time favorite fighting game series is “the King of Fighters”.

[Anonymous No.8427993]

>>8420595
You can cancel your run with crouch, just not the initial dash. You can jump cancel upsmash and grab at any point during a dash and run. You can also use special moves at any point.

[Anonymous No.8428018]

>>8418593
I'm jealous of how melee's community has kept it alive. It's one of the most grass roots games left with any sizeable following.
Not a fan of the game personally though.
>>8422430
>The roster is quite balanced though.
3S is a joke when it comes to viable characters. Even its most ardent fanboys will concede this. Well, at least the ones that are actually good at fighting games will.

[Anonymous No.8428029]

>>8426438
that's not a genre

and before you say "what is mario party" it's a board game simulator with minigames

[Anonymous No.8428281]

>>8427880
>smelly autists
Yep.

>transgenders

That's Street Fighter.

>and literal motherfuckers.

Chris-Chan plays Smash?

[Anonymous No.8428364]

in general, smash straight up kicks the shit out of most fighting games as an overall package. I think some of the soul caliburs can rival it though

[Anonymous No.8428534]

>>8428364
You are so much of a faggot it hurts.

[Anonymous No.8428547]

>>8428534
bro you have been running around all day on this board doing this shit
you good, man? wanna talk about it?

[Anonymous No.8428621]

>>8418593
At this point I can't tell if Nintendies are being ironic, or if they are just legit retards.

[Anonymous No.8428653]

>>8418593
>best fighting game
>posts party game

[Anonymous No.8428681]

>>8428029
>>8419236

[Anonymous No.8428942]

>>8427919
"Contaminated" and "taking hold" imply two different things.

[Anonymous No.8428949]

The endless SEETHE from fighting game players in regard to Melee will never not be funny. They claim they do it to make Melee players seethe, but you don't see us retaliating nearly as much as you guys do. Have you even played this game? Are you even aware of its potential? Why does it threaten you so much? It seems like there is a lot of willful ignorance at play, here.

[Anonymous No.8429282]

>>8428949
have shower

[Anonymous No.8429293]

>>8428949
I played a shitload of it growing up, yeah. Easily my favorite game in elementary school.

[Anonymous No.8429306]

>>8428949
>Have you even played this game? Are you even aware of its potential?
lol

[Anonymous No.8429324]

>>8428949
For 2D fighting games, 90% of winning is done by getting better at execution.
Take the KoF franchise as being peak "guy-who-entered-training-mode-more-wins"
You wanted to win a single match in a KoF game, you had to spend months on end grinding training mode every single day for hours.
I can see how the Smash franchise went to the absolute other extreme with that.

To me, both styles of games are super fun and good. They're just different worlds, is all.

[Anonymous No.8429331]

>>8420595
>Modding the game to require even less skill
There's a KoF rom I have that does full damage maximum combos with cancels and all whenever you press a button, shit's fun to mess around with for a few seconds lol

[Anonymous No.8429360]

>>8428949
Unwashed hands typed this post

[Anonymous No.8429363]

>>8428949
you can literally smell this post

[Anonymous No.8429485]

>>8429324
Do combos take hours to complete? sometimes it'll take me hours to just nail down one combo.

[Anonymous No.8429487]

>>8429324
I entirely disagree, maybe that was Sakurai's original intention but at least for high level Melee it works completely the opposite.
To further expand >>8423648 Melee high level tech is fundamental to play, simply put, if you do not put a fuckton of hours you are not playing the same game as the players above you, heavy execution is mandatory for neutral game, same can't be said about most fighting games. Sure, impressive combos might look scary initially, but they don't radically change the way you move and get the hit, and even if you do, there are still easy BnBs that might not squeeze the same damage as the long combos do, but they still allow you to compete, its something, good FG players can pick up most other FGs and be decent with pure fundamentals, without needing to remember any crazy string, it's a disadvantage to not be able to deal as much damage but it is still doable. High technical skill is rewarding but not necessary
Same can't be said about Melee. Your ledgedash doesnt get enough galint? You are fucked, good luck getting off the ledge when a Marth spams D-tilt. Also, if you fail you kill yourself lol. Can't shield-drop? You are helpless when being pressured from below. Can't WD OoS (which timing is variable on every single attack)? Nice, now you can't punish shit, you can get pressured for free. And this is not even considering the overall movement required to play through the games, sure some tradicional fighters might have some sort of advanced movement like KBDs, plink-dashing, or un-fly shit but it is baby steps compared to what's in Melee, especially considering the analog nature of the game.

[Anonymous No.8429503]

what circumstances causes anxiety and depression?

[Anonymous No.8429518]

>>8429487
And I didn't even touch upon the intrincate defensive counterplay that exists, basically entirely absent from traditional fighters, there a combo is a combo and that's it, in Melee 80% of things that might work on a player of your level simply won't work on someone better. SDI, amsah-tech, slide-off, ledge-tech, your punish game suddenly loses all of its meaning, you can't even combo them in your own terms. Unless you actively play against other good players, you will not be able to answer with the appropiate counterplay to their defensive counterplay.
There is a reason why high level Melee is so consistent compared to other fighters, why the same 6 people won every tournament there was to win for over 8 years in a game so competitive with big tournaments so often. It's much more doable to simply win just by being the better player and be able to move/attack at several levels above your opponent, even if you are having a bad day that's enough to win. Traditional fighters are much more reliant on reads and the mental play, if your opponent has your number that day there's not much you can do against that.

[Anonymous No.8429537]

>>8429518
>And I didn't even touch upon the intrincate defensive counterplay that exists, basically entirely absent from traditional fighters, there a combo is a combo and that's it
>It's much more doable to simply win just by being the better player and be able to move/attack at several levels above your opponent, even if you are having a bad day that's enough to win.
>Traditional fighters are much more reliant on reads and the mental play, if your opponent has your number that day there's not much you can do against that.
This is why you guys get made fun of.

[Anonymous No.8429578]

>>8429503
Bad parenting and poverty.

[Anonymous No.8429625]

>>8419074
>it's the chess of vidya.
Chess is also heavily overrated, good analogy. There is a reason Fisher started looking down on it later in life.

[Anonymous No.8429678]

>>8420758
It's literally a game where characters fight each other.

[Anonymous No.8429682]

>>8429678
Nuh uh.

[Anonymous No.8429702]

>>8429678
My favorite fighting game is this :^) <3333

[Anonymous No.8431673]

>>8418593
MvC2 beats it for straight up fun with friends.
>but everyone just picks Magneto, Sent, Storm, Cable
only in gay comps with pro players. When you're playing with mates, you just pick whoever you like and do fun air combos all day.