/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.8410793]

Why did 6 button gamepads ended up being phased out?

[Anonymous No.8410801]

1. they're stupid as fuck
2. sega went under

[Anonymous No.8410826]

>>8410801
>1. they're stupid as fuck
this.

4 face buttons + 4 shoulder buttons > 6 face buttons + 2 shoulder buttons

also psx d-pad > saturn d-pad, don't @ me.

[Anonymous No.8410827]

They're just plain uncomfortable. 4 buttons offers the maximal amount of inputs you can comfortably reach with one thumb, including pressing several simultaneously.

[Anonymous No.8410870]

fighting games went out of fashion

[Anonymous No.8410873]

>>8410793
The shoulder buttons/triggers evolved into the primary action buttons. Now that face buttons are relegated to ancillary functions you don't need many of them. Plus the six button array really only existed because Street Fighter became a sensation and the Genesis 3 button pad wasn't enough.

[Anonymous No.8410885]

Because of me. I just told the manufacturers: "Hey, let's stop making those! It will be fun some time later, when 4chan and /vr/ come to be. Trust me!" We're right now laughing at you. I'm glad I wad right, and not wrong.

[Anonymous No.8410886]

Also the PS1 pad became the defacto standard so everyone just copied it. The diamond layout wasn't a thing prior and now its invariable. The SNES used a (superior) slightly wider diamond shape.

[Anonymous No.8410890]

>>8410793
sega's idea was to put a arcade controls in your hand, but that doesn't work because you don't use your thumbs when you stand in front of a cabinet. that said, i've never had a problem with it myself.

[Anonymous No.8410891]

>>8410826
@

I'm sorry, but now we're arguing. Just like when a Pokémon trainer see another.

[Anonymous No.8410895]

>>8410801
>>8410826
Tiny fingers haha.

[Anonymous No.8410897]

>>8410826
>>8410891
The original US Saturn pad has a better d-pad than both of them.

[Anonymous No.8410903]

6 face buttons has no real purpose outside of fighting games, and even then only in those that use the jab/strong/fierce input design.
and the console that tried to normalize 6 face buttons was the biggest titanic level flop in the history of video games ensuring that no dev would ever even try to adapt for it

[Anonymous No.8410907]

I don't have a problem with 6 buttons except when you sometimes misalign and wind up hitting Z and C when you were trying to press X and B.

[Anonymous No.8410941]

>>8410793

[Anonymous No.8411278]

>>8410826
why can't we have 6 face and 4 shoulder?

[Anonymous No.8411286]

>>8411278
why not 100 face buttons and 50 shoulder?

4+4 is perfect, any more is not necessary.

[Anonymous No.8411343]

>>8411278
What would you use those extra two buttons for? Even fighting games are now basing their control schemes on four face buttons. Street Fighter is the only currently active IP that would make use of it.

[Anonymous No.8411386]

>>8410793
only good for fighters
4 button allows for use in everything else

[Anonymous No.8411390]

I like 6 face 2 shoulder way more than 4 face 4 shoulder, mainly because 4 shoulder buttons is bad. Most controllers fail to make both pairs of shoulder buttons feel good, and moving the index finger back to hit the triggers is awkward. On a SNES or Saturn controller all you have to move is your thumbs and it feels good.

[Anonymous No.8411395]

>>8411286
>why not 100 face buttons and 50 shoulder?
you are as stupid as the strawman you just constructed

[Anonymous No.8411408]

Made no sense, N64 had the C buttons grouped precisely because it's not optimal to reach all the buttons otherwise. Try playing 4 button games with a Saturn pad, it's not good.

[Anonymous No.8411412]

>>8411390
Also I want to add that back triggers made WAY more sense when we used them for camera movement.

[Anonymous No.8411414]

It was only really used in fighting games, and fighting game players just use fight sticks anyway.

[Anonymous No.8411452]

>>8410793
Decline in fighting game popularity would be my guess.
>>8410801
>>8410826
Yikes. Zoomers truly are a plague to this board.

[Anonymous No.8411454]

>>8410827
>with one thumb
Any game that requires 3+ inputs at the same time like jump, shoot and run make it almost impossible to play with one thumb.

[Anonymous No.8411458]

>>8411454
wrong

[Anonymous No.8411490]

I think N64 actually had a solid concept. Most games use two buttons primary, whether It's A to confirm and B to cancel, or A to jump and B to attack, or A to accelerate and B to brake. So have two buttons that are very prominent on the controller, but then have a further set of four buttons that are smaller and can be used for occasional functions.
The only question is whether the controller is now too cramped for a second stick.

[Anonymous No.8411498]

>>8411454
maybe for thumblets, most people played megaman x with no problem with some thumblets remapping dash to R1.
i still like the 6 buttoms layout but my thumb would sometimes slip when pressing the buttoms in the middle while playing more stressful shit like fighting games.

[Anonymous No.8411538]

>>8411343
In theory I guess that if any game requires more weapon switching like DOOM, you could use the other two buttons to scroll up or down?
Maybe it is pointless, but with how certain games feel like they're stretching it by using weapon wheels and using the analog sticks to perform certain actions, I don't think it would hurt either.

[Anonymous No.8411541]

>>8410793
Because the only thing they were useful for was fighting games

[Anonymous No.8411543]

>>8411490
Any modern controllers like this one but with the second analog stick as well?

[Anonymous No.8411573]

>>8411458
>>8411498
Show us how it's possible in a comfortable way. You won't because you can't.

[Anonymous No.8411601]

>>8411454
You never learned the Mega Man X thumb rock? Charge, dash, and jump with one thumb.

[Anonymous No.8411627]

>>8411498
>>8411601
not him but why would i want to do that?

[Anonymous No.8411634]

>>8411286
>100 face buttons

[Anonymous No.8411649]

>>8410793
Good riddance. Why would I not want access to all the face buttons by simply rocking my thumb?

[Anonymous No.8411652]

>>8411634
>membrane keyboard
not even once

[Anonymous No.8411754]

>>8411601
Nope. I used separate fingers for those actions on a snes pad.

[Anonymous No.8411760]

>>8411634
Computer games suck tho

[Anonymous No.8411835]

>>8411627
It's perfectly comfortable. It's the only way I know how to play.

[Anonymous No.8412039]

>>8411498
>i still like the 6 buttoms layout but my thumb would sometimes slip when pressing the buttoms in the middle while playing more stressful shit like fighting games.

lol ur a thumblet

[Anonymous No.8412484]

>>8410903
>Main four buttons for left/right punch/kick
>C+Z for transformation /tag out /gauge >unleash.etc.
>Left shoulder block and toggle >sidestepping/8-way run/ Parrying opportunity.
>Trigger throw

[Anonymous No.8412489]

>>8410793
I would say the Duke is technically the last mainstream controller to have 6 face buttons but that’s debatable. I used to love using the black and white buttons.

[Anonymous No.8412494]

Not enough space for two thumbsticks, easier to move two of the face buttons to form a second pair of shoulder buttons. Buttons are also distributed more evenly this way (4 for right thumb, 2 for right index, 2 for left index instead of 6 for right thumb, 1 for right index and 1 for left index).

[Anonymous No.8412501]

I always liked this gamepad. Great d-pad, analogue works well, L and R analogue triggers, six buttons on the face.

[Anonymous No.8412508]

>>8412489
What do you make of the asymmetrical angled layout of the buttons? Are they better for being compressed? Or is it more efficient use of space at the expense of ergonomics?
I wonder about bringing back the 'S' controller's Start and Back placements behind the left analogue.
May get a custom controller with 9 face buttons. 4 diamond main ones. 2 B+W [C+Z] and three lower profile auxiliary buttons underneath the six. Flush with the controller top. I think a lot of the people ITT are forgetting the utility of an extra button that can do the same thing. It unlocks a lot of potential different ways to play. As well as an artificial "turbo" button mode.

[Anonymous No.8412535]

>>8412508
I bought a controller s when they were the hot new shit, but strongly preferred the Duke. I preferred the oblong jelly bean candy buttons and asymmetrical layout to the more “traditional” placement the S had. If your thumbs got sweaty they would slide right off those bastards, good memories. Also because of the convex nature of the buttons, pressing them in just the right spot could hurt your thumbpad, also good memories. IMO the Duke is more ergonomic unless you have truly small hands, the sticks had better texture as well.
The black and white buttons were a pain to use other than for niche game elements on both the Duke and the S.
I think modern controllers should have 6 face buttons not including start+select. I agree it adds a ton of utility and options for devs, and new fighting games would benefit greatly.
I personally think 9 face buttons is overkill but let your autism bloom brother.

[Anonymous No.8412558]

>>8411390
you use your index fingers for the top pair of shoulder buttons and your middle fingers for the lower/trigger buttons.

[Anonymous No.8412568]

>>8410793
Need to make the controller wider to accommodate, which isn't so good for ergonomics, and Sony found a great solution in having two sets of shoulder buttons stacked vertically along with clicking dual analog sticks with the Playstation/Dualshock controllers. Microsoft did try to bring it back with the original Xbox controllers, and even though the layout they used saved up real estate it still isn't a good fit since your thumb can only access so many buttons at once.

[Anonymous No.8412574]

>>8412558
second knuckles for shoulder buttons.
Tips for triggers. :)

[Anonymous No.8412578]

>>8412574
impossibru

[Anonymous No.8412582]

>>8412578
What can I say? I'm a big nig.

[Anonymous No.8412587]

>>8412582
I'm worried you might be a speedrunner to be honest

[Anonymous No.8412591]

>>8410793
Because trying to turn a game controller into arcade controls is shit.

[Anonymous No.8412594]

>>8412574
There are some pads I've used where that method doesn't work well so I just do middle on trigger, I don't really mind it if it's a comfy position where the fingers just rest there like that, my 6 button horipad is like that and it's wider on the right side to fit the extra cloned shoulder buttons.
I would prefer to have something like the Dreamcast pad with extra buttons below the triggers near the grips so I can use my midde/ring to use those rather than one button on top then the trigger. This would have your index resting on the triggers at all times and give you two/four more buttons while still having a good grip on the controller.

[Anonymous No.8412598]

It started with SNES; Genesis had three buttons, so SNES should have had at least one more, then SNES became the most popular console on earth and Sony copied its button layout for the PSX, making it industry standard.
I liked the 6 button layout, it's the exact number of functions you can activate sliding the thumb, more would be uncomfortable, and less aren't enough.

[Anonymous No.8412745]

>>8412594
Staggered asymmetric twin triggers I used to put them in concept controller designs in the past. I just back then didn't like the Xbox 360 controller design back then. But it grew on me and now feels tiny in my hands. I swapped out the twin triggers in my "ultimate controller" drawings. lol. But it could make a return. I'm yet to be convinced though.

[Anonymous No.8413014]

>>8410793
People started stopping to fall for the meme>

[Anonymous No.8413504]

>>8412501
It's honestly way more comfortable to hold than it looks. It's so comfortable to hold that it's honestly baffling that the Dreamcast controller ended up the way it did, outside of maybe the Analog stick it felt like a straight up downgrade in every way.

[Anonymous No.8413538]

>>8413504
DC controller is what keeps it out of the goat conversation for me.
Great games
Great piracy
Great video output
But that damn controller...basura

[Anonymous No.8413568]

>>8411543
I think retro bit had a six button dual analog controller in the pipeline, though I don't think it's made it to market yet

[Anonymous No.8413649]

>>8413538
People were selling the DC in the first months of release because they hated the controller, it was that bad. SEGA was run by retards, all they had to do was make the Saturn peripherals compatible with the DC and be done with it but they were too focused on the VMU gimmick, they thought they were gonna get the new Tamagotchi.
Some games when a Saturn gamepad was connected via an adapter even recognized the extra C and Z buttons since the system actually had support for those buttons.

[Anonymous No.8414094]

>>8410793
Because of the right analog stick

[Anonymous No.8414186]

>>8411490
Xbox 2001 had the buttons and dual analog, if the button layout was like N64 it would be perfect

[Anonymous No.8414189]

>>8414094
True, my Hori 6-Button stretches the right side to fit the buttons and I gotta stretch my thumb too far to use the analog stick... it might as well have just not included it.

[Anonymous No.8414202]

>>8412501
I like it better than the Saturn pad that everybody on the internet praises. No idea why Dreamcast abandoned the 6 buttons and superior dpad

[Anonymous No.8414228]

>>8414186
Why not put it to the top left of X/Y buttons? I find the menu buttons in that position easy to reach and that layout would allow the controller to remain symmetrical.

[Anonymous No.8414234]

>>8414202
It's definitely my favorite 6 button pad, there's an iPega knockoff that adds another stick and it's hilarious looking... I almost want to buy it just for the meme.

[Anonymous No.8414294]

>>8414189
Yeah, the original Xbox controller, this one: >>8414186 tries to fix it, but it still not that usable. They are only good for few things.

[Anonymous No.8414379]

It's a shame that six face buttons went out of favor. People say it's not necessary for anything but fighting games, but I'd MUCH PREFER having C/Z buttons for extra mappings rather than fucking dogshit clickable analogue stick L3/R3 bullshit.

[Anonymous No.8414802]

>>8414189
Should've shrunk them by 10% and made the 'C+Z' button angle higher rater than lower. This would've solved the problem.

[Anonymous No.8414804]

>>8414802
That and the controller arms angle could've changed to accommodate the ergonomics

[Anonymous No.8414841]

>>8413568
that looks like shit.

[Anonymous No.8414857]

>>8413568
What the fuck is this monstrosity? I fucking love the 6-button SEGA Genesis pad but just slapping some sticks on the bottom like that looks like ass and probably feels worse... Maybe the 3-button models frame would work better for it.
Their Saturn pad feels like cheap shit but at least the dual stick mockup I've seen looks much better than this.

[Anonymous No.8414863]

Well it seems that they stopped with the 6 buttons because of the second stick.

[Anonymous No.8415073]

>>8414857
>>8414841
This is from the Sony "Let's add two sticks without changing the joypad design too much, and pretend that it's ergonomic failings were intentional." school of thought. Just cheap and lazy.

[Anonymous No.8415076]

>>8415073
They hang off the bottom of the pad like a pair of bollocks. This is great design...

[Anonymous No.8415098]

>>8415076
>>8414857
>>8413568
>>8414841
>thumbs touch all the time
no wonder they haven't made this shit

[Anonymous No.8415195]

>>8411601
Even before playing the Zero games I always remapped dash to right trigger

[Anonymous No.8416125]

>>8415195
Rocking your thumb across three face buttons just felt like a natural extension of doing it with two in Mario or OG Mega Man so I never considered remapping. I just use the base of my thumb to dash or occasionally double tapping forward.

[Anonymous No.8417741]

>>8414186
This is the best six-button layout.