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/vr/ - Retro Games

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8371312 No.8371312 [Reply] [Original]

Using save states not only invalidates your run of a game; it also invalidates every single FUTURE run of that game, as well. Even if you never used a save state again, the illegitimately acquired skills you developed during your save-stated run are still probably ingrained in your mind, and you'll never be able to unlearn those things. Every time you beat that game, it'll always have that asterisk. You will NEVER get to say that you beat the game honestly.

>> No.8371325
File: 12 KB, 255x248, gutsconfused.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8371325

>>8371312
Strange cope. If savestate practice helps you learn a game faster and more conveniently, why not use it? The only time it should be an issue is if you're using them for real competitive runs.

>> No.8371328

This is simply retarded. I would practice with save states all the time back in the old days to get 1ccs at the arcade, even home ports of arcade games let you practice individual sections of levels

>> No.8371332

>Lose a life in the game
>Reset console, reload saved game to go back to the beginning of the stage with all lives back
>Try again

>Lose a life in the game
>Load a savestate to the beginning of said stage with all lives back
>Try again
All it does is mitigate tedium.

>> No.8371335
File: 17 KB, 320x240, 33563-Dragon's_Lair_(USA)-1459102473-thumb.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8371335

>but it's the intended experience!

>> No.8371341

>>8371328
If the game LETS you do it, that's different.

>>8371332
What you consider tedium is part of the game. You don't have to like it, but you'll never get to say you've beaten any game if you beat them this way. If you don't care, that's cool, as long as you accept the fact.

>> No.8371345

>>8371341
>What you consider tedium is part of the game
Then I made it a better game.
Get a job, dude. Pay some bills.

>> No.8371348

>>8371345
>Then I made it a better game.
Better in what sense? Are games only good to you if you're able to beat them easily, or go through them with little to no resistance?

>> No.8371349

>>8371312
did you click on the wrong board? you don't need to make bait threads to get replies here

>> No.8371352

>>8371348
Not all of us are children or NEETs that can spend 30 hours a week grinding at a game to get better at it.

>> No.8371356

>>8371348
Being able to put up with tedium is not a testament of skill.

>> No.8371358

>>8371352
And not all working adults are bad at games. I'm sorry you find yourself in that category.

>> No.8371361

>>8371356
Patience, perseverance, endurance—these are not skills to you?
They're mundane skills, I'll give you that, but they're still skills, and ones that you apparently lack.

>> No.8371364

I pity any turboautist who has legitimately beaten Gradius 3 without save states, the developers couldn’t even do it.

>> No.8371378

>>8371361
I use save states as save files for games that don't have them. Otherwise I don't use them. I'm not going to restart a game all the way from the beginning after dying to a level, I'm going to restart the level from the beginning instead.

>> No.8371380

>>8371312
I completely agree with OP.

>> No.8371383

>>8371378
And that's your prerogative, but don't go around telling people you legitimately beat those games

>> No.8371385

>>8371312
I get the same skills as you just quicker. Stay mad you inefficient fuck.

>> No.8371395

>>8371383
Don't care, I don't brag about shit like that, I just wanna have fun.

>> No.8371410

>>8371395
Totally understandable
Beating games is cool, but the extra satisfaction I get from knowing I was able to do it without cheating is something I personally find difficult to pass up

>> No.8371413

>>8371410
Good for you anon

>> No.8371427

>>8371312
Seethe more.

>> No.8371458

>>8371312
what game is that picture from from? looks like a very fun cool image :D

>> No.8371460

>>8371332
If you actually have limited lives yuh ou will relay on different expeyerimenting and learning methods then if you play with save states. Imagine trying to develop strategies for a boss where you only get 3 tries before losing 20 minutes if progress vs unlimited retires.

You are basically playing a different version of the game at that point.

>> No.8371462

>>8371361
It’s only endurance if it’s a legitimate challengecworth going through. Putting up with tedium isn’t challenging, and it’s not a sign of endurance. It’s foolish.

>> No.8371472
File: 2.68 MB, 3504x2336, 1461784169707-1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8371472

It's really baffling to me that we're having this exact same thread again. Is OP training a neural network to shitpost on /vr/? Am I dreaming? Why are people still responding to these?

>> No.8371487

>>8371312
meds sucka

>> No.8371525

if you worry too much about stuff like this you might be on the path to switching genders

>> No.8371538

>>8371458
Bug! (1995) for the Sega Saturn
pretty average mascot platformer

>> No.8371568

>>8371538
I KNEW it looked familiar! Thanks, friend!

>> No.8371907

>>8371312
False. Savestates are simply a cheaper version of hiring assistants to play up to the point you want to practice on duplicate consoles.

>> No.8371928

>>8371352
>said someone on 4chan

>> No.8371932

>>8371385
You will not have the same skills as someone who played the game legitimally. But more importantly, you skipped all the fun and never will have that back.

>> No.8371940

People used to practice scoring in shoot 'em ups without save states since they had no choice. At the highest skill level they probably wasted dozens of hours playing the first stage over and over again. There is a reason everyone who does scoring in these games learns with save states now.

>> No.8371942
File: 186 KB, 400x400, 605056856.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8371942

>>8371312
Beware OP, people will hate you because you are saying the truth.

>> No.8371971

>prove I used savestates to get good at this game
>you can't
>I win

Thread over. OP can go fuck himself in the ass with his Wiimote now.

>> No.8371984

>>8371312
i don care, me likey game just the way i played it
me don't want to do stupid bullshit i can beat with my eyes closed to get to the boss again
it's literally just a game bro

>> No.8371987
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8371987

the fact that OPs post can even be considered a "controversial" opinion means that all is already lost.

>> No.8372537

>>8371940
Games are not about Skilling up or getting high scores. They are about fun. Sometimes Skilling up or getting scores is fun. But sometimes it's just autism. Like those speed runners who are godly skilled but hate playing it.

>> No.8372539

>>8371312
Imagine caring if/how someone else beat a game.

>> No.8372545

>>8371325
You don't seem to understand. This IS a competitive scenario for OP.

>> No.8372548

>>8371971
Based take

>> No.8372550

It's just a game OP. Take your meds.

>> No.8372552

>>8371312
Based as fuck

>> No.8372672

I know OP is shitposting but he's actually right. I feel the same way about 1cc: if you EVER used a continue to beat a game, and later you 1cc it it's not really valid, because you used continues to practice.

>> No.8372704

>>8372672
This is so brain damaged lol... by this logic situational drilling, cross training, scrimmaging, accessory training, etc in sports is also invalid and the Olympics competitors should have just started ski jumping off a 50 foot ramp on day one, or only wrestling or boxing full contact matches every day they train.

"If you EVER spent an hour shooting pucks at the net trying to get that top corner slot your skill in the NHL is not really valid because you didn't have to skate thru the opposing defense to get yourself in a shooting position."

Truly only gamers are like this.

>> No.8372712

>>8372704
Real life sports are different from video games. I disagree with the post your responding to in re: using continues somehow invalidates 1CCs. Continues are a convention of the game; save states, in general, are not—it's more akin to using a performance enhancing drug than it is to train yourself using the legal options.

Who the fuck designs their games with the idea that a player could 1CC it on their first try anyway?

>> No.8372773

>>8371525
an exquisitely subtle and well delivered based post, cheers.

>> No.8372838

>>8372712
>akin to using a performance enhancing drug

No, it is definitively not. It is exactly analogous to taking practice shots on an open net. Not having to fight thru the defensive line and contend with a goalie isn't "part of the game" of hockey. Situational drilling and selective practice is efficient and essential to becoming great at anything. All great athletes do it, musicians too, they don't run thru the opening easy bit if a piano sonata over and over everytime they want to work on the difficult middle bit. That is wasteful madness. Why are videogames any different?

>> No.8372842

>>8372838
I guess it's different with gamers because they're NEETS and have no concept of efficient use of or value of time.

>> No.8372848

>>8372838
Because games have rules. You're allowed to practice and run drills in sports because practicing and running drills isn't against the rules of any sport that I can think of.
Practicing is against the rules in any video game that doesn't allow you to practice. Fighting games have training modes, so it's natural to use them for training—but if a platformer says you have to start over from level 1 after losing all your lives and continues, then that's the rule.

You don't have to respect or agree with the game's rules, but once you break those rules, you're not playing the game anymore. You're playing your own version of the game independent of the actual game that you're failing to beat.

>> No.8372859

>>8371312
Wrong. At the end of the day, if you can beat the game legit you can beat the game legit. Doesn't matter how you learn the game. If somebody gets a great score or 1cc in a tough game, saying it doesn't count because they practiced in a more efficient way than you is silly. Good bait though.

>> No.8372861

>>8372848
>You're playing your own version of the game independent of the actual game that you're failing to beat.
Playing with save states or cheats is essentially a different version of the game. But when you go back to playing the original version of the game, you're not playing your own version anymore regardless of what you've played in the past.

>> No.8372874

>>8372861
Yeah, but now the original version of the game is forever tainted, because the knowledge/skills you acquired during your cheated run cannot be unlearned. It's like losing your virginity, or having a movie spoiled for you. You can still watch the movie and probably enjoy it, but you'll NEVER know how you would've felt if you got to experience the thing you were spoiled on yourself.

>> No.8372916

>>8372859
It's not about the 1cc. It's about the journey

>> No.8372924

>>8372848
Omission is not proscription you moron. It's not "against the rules". It's simply not in the rules at all. The games don't say 'nooooo you can't practice before a performance attempt' anymore than the official rules of hockey say 'yes you may practice between games'. God you people are autistic and pedantic.

>> No.8372927

>>8372874
Arguably it taints the experience in some way, that's subjective, but they're still completing a legitimate run of the game. If you held some competition where people got together and beat the game, it wouldn't make any sense to disqualify people over how they learned it.
>>8372916
That's a fair opinion, but OP is saying that it's not a legitimate run of the game, which is different than just saying it hurts the experience or journey.

>> No.8372934

>>8372927
>If you held some competition where people got together and beat the game, it wouldn't make any sense to disqualify people over how they learned it.

More importantly, there would be no way to even identify those people based on their performance. If you can't spot it, it doesn't matter. Fuck off already. I will use savestates in private and then tell you I didn't and laugh at your seething.

>> No.8372935

The first time I beat Duke Nukem 3D when I was 8 years old, I used the God Mode cheat built into the game.

Does that invalidate my no saving/pistol start/hardest skill playthroughs made 20 years later?

>> No.8372937

>>8372924
>The games don't say 'nooooo you can't practice before a performance attempt'
Are you unfamiliar with the concept of an "unspoken rule"?
If a game doesn't let you do something, then you don't get to do it, because otherwise, the game would let you. That's what a rule is.

>> No.8372941

>>8372935
IMO, stuff like that is only okay if the game itself teaches you what the cheat code is (which they generally don't).
So, while they're built into the game, they're supposed to be kept secret until the game decides to reveal them to you, at which point it wouldn't be cheating to use it.

>> No.8372972

>>8371312
Would getting hints on how to defeat a boss or beat a level invalidate all future runs of a game? You're after all obtaining information about the game illegitimately. This isn't a rhetorical question, I'm just curious as to how far you could take this line of thought.

>> No.8372986

>>8372712
>it's more akin to using a performance enhancing drug than it is to train yourself using the legal options.
No, that would be using something like Game Genie to give yourself an advantage over the game, not using savestates to learn hard sections of a game.

OP continues to make a fool out of himself.

>> No.8372987

>>8372986
>No, that would be using something like Game Genie to give yourself an advantage over the game, not using savestates to learn hard sections of a game.
Learning hard sections of a game by eliminating the game's stakes is literally giving yourself an advantage

>> No.8372996

>>8372972
Do you mean getting hints from other people?
I don't know, I feel like that's kind of a grey area and up to personal discretion. To get tips in the first place, you generally have to look them up or ask people, right? So if you want to beat the game all on your own, you can simply avoid doing that.
I don't think getting tips from other people is that big of a deal because video games are largely a social experience anyway, but it's an interesting question. I personally don't like asking people for help unless I'm absolutely desperate.

>> No.8373035

>>8372987
A fair advantage in learning the game. Not cheating.

>> No.8373037

>>8372972
No, you still beat the game. You just can't say "I beat the game without hints." Whether that's important or not is up to you.

For some games, beating it with too many hints can kinda really hurt the experience for you though, even though you technically still beat it. Myst for example, where the entire game is figuring out puzzles and you can trivially reach the end if you know the solutions.

>> No.8373038

>>8372987
There are never any stakes. It's a game you fucking cretin.

>> No.8373040

>>8372987
Eliminating the game's stakes? You're still facing the same challenge as you would in a non-savestated run, just skipping the parts you don't need to improve on. You aren't making any sense.

>> No.8373046

>>8373038
What a dumb cunt you are. There is literally no point in playing games at all if there isn't a sense of stakes, or a possibility of failure.

>> No.8373048

>>8373040
>just skipping the parts you don't need to improve on
Just because you beat a level once doesn't mean you could do it again. You might have passed it by the skin of your teeth. Some games are meant to be a test of endurance, and if you need save states to beat them, then you failed the endurance test.

>> No.8373063

>>8373046
There's a possibility of failure every time you play it. How you learn doesn't change that.

>> No.8373075

>>8373063
The possibility isn't eliminated, but it's irrevocably decreased. I don't understand why you'd bother to play a game at all if you're not going to challenge yourself.

>> No.8373123

>>8373075
Decreased because of your increased ability and knowledge, not because anything about the game has changed. I'm still challenging myself to play the game well and improve further, for many games that's still going to be challenging and entertaining even with the help of save states to practice more efficiently.

I don't understand why you'd scoff at somebody playing an amazing run of a game because they didn't handicap themselves by imposing artificial rules on how they can learn.

>> No.8373128

>You will NEVER get to say that you beat the game honestly.
except people still will and will truly believe it. seethe all you want but that’s reality. I don’t like using save states myself but vidya is for entertainment and how people get the most of their individual experiences will be subjective.

>> No.8373268

>>8371312
You should be seething at speedtroons instead, for getting notoriety for abusing glitches and hardware malfunctions and grinding the same illegitimate runs over and over in the vain attempt to shave nanoseconds off their pb in the most futile, degenerate act known to man.

>> No.8374148

>>8372987
This 100%. It's cheating because it's not the way the designers intended you to play. Also there's a lot of timing involved on legit playthroughs that will not happen at all if you just save and load. Goddamit this board is filled with retards who can't understand a simple concept.

>>8373035
>>8373038
>>8373040
The reason why you faggots cannot admit you are cheating it's because of your little ego. It's pathetic.

Play the game the way you want, but don't lie to yourself. If you are playing with save states, you ARE cheating. If you are fine with that, great, more power to you & have fun. Just don't be the kind of retard who thinks you are playing legit because you are not.

>inb4 "hurr durr ESL"
Go eat one million of dicks.

>> No.8374203

>noooooo why didn't you waste years of your life to become a gaymer god like meeee

Lol. have sex, boomer, there is more to life than memorizing old shitty videogames.

>> No.8374207

>>8374148
I agree save states are cheating, I'm just rejecting the absurd idea that you can never beat the game without cheating if you've ever played with save states before.

>> No.8374231

>>8374207
OP is just trying to cope with the fact that, even if he did use savestate practice, he'd still fucking suck ass at videogames, and is angry at other people who are actually good at them, telling himself "w-w-well they just savestated, their skills aren't l-l-l-legit..." Pretty sad, tbqh.

>> No.8374249

>>8374231
Even if this were true, it would still be perfectly valid

>> No.8374262

>>8374203
>oomer
Fuck off to /v/

>> No.8374275

>>8374249
No it wouldn't be, because it's fucking retarded reasoning. There's no such thing as "fake skill". It's a cop-out you invented because you're an old fart who sucks at gaming and needs to retire to crossword puzzles or something instead of shitposting on a board for videogames.

>> No.8374372

>>8374275
I never said there was such a thing as fake skill, but your skill can be illegitimately acquired.

>> No.8374391

>>8374372
>illegitimately
How can a skill be acquired illegitimately?

>> No.8374419

>>8374391
I'm against save state practicing. I'm against it because playing the game legit is more fun then treating it like homework.

Your reasons though are autistic.

>> No.8374423

>>8374391
Save states. Someone who was able to get good at Ninja Gaiden by using save states to practice hard levels acquired those skills illegitimately, because kids playing the game in the '80s didn't have the option to do that.

They had to start at square 1 every single time, and that was fine, because that was the TEST of the game. If you can't beat it in one sitting, you've failed the test—but it's more impressive for someone to have developed those skills by starting from square 1 and practicing that way instead of practicing by skipping levels.

>> No.8374516

>>8374423
My question is, who says it de-legitimizes your skill? At what point is your skill legitimate enough? How do you know who has the most skill?

Seems made-up. If kids COULD have used savestates in the 80s, they would have.

>> No.8374774

Honestly, I feel conflicted on this matter. In my heart I sort of agree with OP because it doesn't feel right and I personally wouldn't do it, but the idea of 'illegitimately acquired skills' is autistic as fuck and I'm not going to say that someone that has the skills to beat the game properly is unable to beat it properly.

>> No.8374871

>>8371312
bug is much more playable with rewind.

>> No.8374883

>>8371312
Using save states in ANY game invalidates all achievements past and future in every field, including real life.

Got married? It's not a real marriage if you've save states.

>> No.8374896

>>8374774
Also, how do you know when a game is giving you a legitimate challenge? If we're going to use OP's logic. Some games have bugs or the game was harder in some areas and easier than others than the developers really wanted. So are we gonna wait around for Capcom to patch some random ass arcade game before people can say they truly, using true skill, beat a true challenge? Where does it end?

There's no reliable way to determine if you're a trve gamer or not. The point is games are software you can use to have fun. Fun requires some degree of challenge and skill learning. The more you creatively exercise a learned/trained skill with something that hits the difficulty curve sweet spot, the more fun you'll have. Being terribly worried that you're not legit enough of a gamer only serves to give something with fragile egos something to hang on to. So let's not fall for that shit.

>> No.8375014

>>8371383
Nah, he legitimately beat the game.

Op no one agrees with you, and you’re not any type of authority on the matter either, so no one cares about your idiotic opinion.

>> No.8375068

>>8371312
Save states are good for learning patterns so you are prepared for all things that may come. I like to beat games without save stating first but after that I will do whatever I want

>> No.8375071

>>8371332
>mitigate tedium
Not really. You will have no connection with a game you save state as you will use it as a crutch. Knowing that death causes a massive headache will keep you on your toes more.

>> No.8375451

>>8375014
Nah, a lot of people agreed with him, at least partially. He was a bit extreme on his statement, but "beating" the game using save states is not legit. C'mon, that's common sense.

>> No.8375497

>>8371472
Random anons drive by, drop their hot takes, and leave, and then a couple autists who aren't bored of arguing this topic yet stay in the thread and fill it up with the same talking points. That's how these threads continually get hundreds of replies.

>> No.8375545

Not only do I use save states, but I use rewind so I never get hit. I’ve beaten so many games without taking damage.

>> No.8375546

>>8371312
Holy fucking shit take some meds.

>> No.8375853

>>8375071
Not really, it just makes you want to stop playing it. Don't pretend this shit is high art because it isn't.

>> No.8375871

>>8375853
Then you're weak, and the game isn't made for you, so you shouldn't be playing it at all

>> No.8375880

>>8371312
Based and completely correct

>> No.8375885

>>8375871
>Then you're weak
Weak to tedium, yeah.

>> No.8375925
File: 2.90 MB, 200x200, cowboy man is not scared.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8375925

>>8371932
Sounds like you have fun being a bitch. You're right, I skipped out on that.

>> No.8375965

>>8371312
Playthroughs being illegitimated due to having future knowledge, implies you can never truly beat something more than once. That you cannot have a more fulfilling experience with attained knowledge. Neither of which are really true.

>> No.8375968

>>8375965
It's different if you beat the game without cheating, because that knowledge is EARNED.
Just having knowledge alone doesn't illegitimate something in and of itself. It's how the knowledge was acquired.

>> No.8376471

>>8375965
well it depends on the game honestly. this doesn't really apply to retro games much outside of maybe jrpgs but if ya get spoiled on the story on a game you wanna play you might not wanna play it much frankly. ik ya mean in terms of gameplay but ye.

>> No.8376847

Sex
Have it

>> No.8377185

>>8371364
Gradius 3 isn't a game, but torture software.

>> No.8377227

>>8371312
I agree, but only a retard would play a game only the way devs want you to.