/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.8309328]

Why did PALbros get shafted so hard?

[Anonymous No.8309334]

The Frogs aren’t PAL? What do they use?

[Anonymous No.8309341]

>>8309334
SECAM. It's the fourth-worlder standard.

[Anonymous No.8309347]

Argentinian here. We had "PAL-N" TVs back in the day but as I remember, my TV had 0 problem displaying NTSC consoles, the problem was actual PAL consoles, which would display on black and white.

[Anonymous No.8309390]

>>8309341
It's actually the Second World standard. It was adopted by USSR and its satellites.

[Anonymous No.8309535]

>>8309334
>>8309347
France had PAL/SECAM and played PAL with no issue. It's mostly a difference in name.
Argentina was mainly PAL but yeah, we used NTSC just as well.

[Anonymous No.8309629]

>>8309390
Hardly, just look at OP's picture, all the Warsaw Pact countries are PAL

[Anonymous No.8309632]

>>8309328
Because having multi-system and RGB really sucks. Why would I want a TV that can work with literally everything? I'd be siting around playing games and shit instead of crying about TVs on 4chan.

[Anonymous No.8309646]

>>8309328
Brazil is PAL-M. They have 60hz like us

[Anonymous No.8309652]

>>8309629
Because that's a modern world map. Many former Warsaw Pact countries swapped to PAL in 1990s and 2000s for better compatibility with First World countries to the west.

[Anonymous No.8309742]

>>8309341
isn't SECAM the same shit as PAL for all intents and purposes?

[Anonymous No.8309750]

>>8309742
the main difference (if any) is a different color system, but for all logical intents and purposes the PAL/SECAM stuff has no mattering in video games since most tv since the 80s/90s are capable of both

[Anonymous No.8309823]

>>8309652
That's wrong though. Hungary, Czechoslovakia, and Poland were always PAL. Probably Yugoslavia and Bulgaria too. Romanians always suck french dick so maybe they were SECAM, no idea.

[Anonymous No.8309956]

>>8309328
argentina used ntsc consoles, we used binorm and trinorm tvs

[Anonymous No.8309985]

Maps like that are a bit misleading, there were variations within the PAL umbrella. Brazil had its own system called PAL-M which ran at the same speed and resolution as NTSC, only the color encoding was different. So as far as how games ran, it was the same as America/Japan.

[Anonymous No.8310057]

>>8309328
Because all the major game corporations are in NTSC regions (America and Japan)

[Anonymous No.8310135]

>>8309334
SECAM. It was used extensively in the Eastern Bloc because the color signal kept its strength across long distances.

[Anonymous No.8310139]

>>8309823
check this
Also, Yugoslavia was considered a Thrid World country back in the day because they refused to bend to the Soviet will and were founders of Non-Aligned Movement.

[Anonymous No.8310284]

>>8310139
Well shit, looks like I was wrong as fuck.

[Anonymous No.8310402]

>>8309328
PAL is superior to NTSC
We should have had 60hz games though

[Anonymous No.8310973]

>>8310402
I mean from what I've heard pal is definetly better, and that's no surprise. NTSC is older and needed to be backwards compatible with black and white sets. PAL didn't have those restrictions.

[Anonymous No.8310985]

>>8309328
How come the Black Sea has been colored in like a country and Africa has been disconnected? The Suez isn’t that wide, bro. This map sucks…

[Anonymous No.8311027]

>>8309328
>Why did PALbros get shafted so hard?
Because videogames were made mostly in japan.

We did used to have a huge microcomputer market in the 80s. Consoles only started becoming a thing from the early 90s.

[Anonymous No.8311053]

>>8310985
>why is Caspian Sea filled as a country?
>why is Russia randomly divided into its time zones circa 1995?
>wtf is going on with Kazakhstan?

[Anonymous No.8311075]

Still people today who try and say pal is better then ntsc for retro games. The vast majority of retro games play fucking 10 percent slower on pal and yes that includes the fucking music. Even if it's a proper conversion your still dealing with a lower frame rate.

[Anonymous No.8311443]

>>8311075
What I’m saying is PAL as an encoder is better
60hz PAL is much cleaner than 60hz NTSC

[Anonymous No.8311451]

>>8311443
Prove it in real world demonstrations

[Anonymous No.8311474]

>>8311451
I’m playing my Saturn at 60hz, it’s PAL composite but still extremely clean

[Anonymous No.8311508]

>>8311474
Real nice proof you got buddy

[Anonymous No.8311524]

>>8311508
I mean really though?

[Anonymous No.8311542]

>>8309334
doesn't matter, what matters is 60hz vs 50hz

[Anonymous No.8311550]

The BBC still broadcasts at 25fps/50Hz in current year

[Anonymous No.8311558]

>>8311524
Yeah bro, your shitty off screen shot totally proves your point. Fuck off

[Anonymous No.8311572]

>>8311558
fair enough, doesn't really bother me that your wrong though

[Anonymous No.8311653]

You know who really got shafted? Those Brits in the alternate timeline where the BBC started using NTSC color on top of the 405-line system.

[Anonymous No.8311764]

>>8311075
Imagine being so new and dumb you think PAL is a refresh rate. ngmi

[Anonymous No.8311805]

>>8311764
Refresh is part of the pal standard you absolutely sub room temp iq having retard

[Anonymous No.8311812]

>>8311550
We're never getting rid of 50Hz TV in Europe. Many lights are still powered by 50Hz AC and they would flicker like crazy when shot with mismatched framerate/shutter speed.
At least with 4K we finally dropped the retarded interlacing, which we should've done years ago when transitioning to HD.

[Anonymous No.8311972]

>>8311805
>Refresh is part of the pal standard
It's literally not, you absolutely projecting assclown

[Anonymous No.8311978]

>>8311972
I'm the other guy anon but yes 50hz is part of the main PAL standard but it can go up to 60hz when the resolution is lowered

[Anonymous No.8312015]

>>8311972
I mean, at some point I'm the retard for continuing to fight with you

[Anonymous No.8312435]

>>8311524
Hmm, guess I compressed the photo more than I thought

[Anonymous No.8312443]

>>8311978
>>8312015
Sorry kiddos PAL is a color encoding system and nothing more. Youtube lied to you again. Cope all you want and scream about how it identities as a refresh rate but you'll still be wrong. Back to le tiktok.

[Anonymous No.8312451]

>>8312443
You're wrong, no other way to out it. Pal and ntsc are broadcast standards that include color encoding, resolution, and refresh.

[Anonymous No.8312486]

>PAL
>NTSC
>SECAM

join the unencoded component/rgb-chads and enjoy pristine colors.

[Anonymous No.8312612]

>>8312451
>i saw it on the internet so it must be true
Top kek kid

[Anonymous No.8312630]

>>8312612
OK old man

[Anonymous No.8312992]

The PAL standard is very, very defined, including field rate. It is not just a method of colour encoding, although that was the motivating factor behind its creator. This is according to the body that defines and maintains the standards.

https://www.itu.int/dms_pubrec/itu-r/rec/bt/R-REC-BT.470-5-199802-S!!PDF-E.pdf

I have an idea the guy arguing otherwise is the same fella who thought all computers were PCs.

[Anonymous No.8313075]

>>8311805
Brazil uses PAL with a 60hz refresh rate.

[Anonymous No.8313107]

>>8309328
Because television wasn't made with video games in mind. Still, other than Sonic 1 it wasn't that bad and it didn't last for that long. By the time the Gamecube came out most games had a 60 hz option.

[Anonymous No.8313124]

>>8312486
This, Americans don't know that RGB is the right color system for everything (inb4 NES, Nintendo is lazy)

[Anonymous No.8313194]

In Russia and other former Soviet countries where majority of households had SECAM televisions while consoles were mainly PAL, you had an unique problem of not having colored graphics. So I'd say PALbros got a pretty good deal in comparison.

[Anonymous No.8313275]

>>8313075
That's PAL-M, which like other PAL systems has clearly defined specifications, including field rate. It's also very weird as far as standards go (although it sort of makes sense in historical context).

[Anonymous No.8314634]

>>8312992
>he didn't read his own evidence

[Anonymous No.8314856]

>>8314634
Line 2. Difficult to find for someone such as yourself, as it involves reading past line 1.

[Anonymous No.8315060]

>>8314856
>y-y-you coulnd't read past line 1
Project much? You literally couldn't read past column 2, which you circled, to read where it says 60 (59.94). I can honestly say I don't think I've ever seen this level of self pnwage on /vr/ before.

[Anonymous No.8315075]

>>8315060
I think you've forgotten your own argument.
>>8312443
>Sorry kiddos PAL is a color encoding system and nothing more.

[Anonymous No.8315086]

>>8315060
>Argues PAL has nothing to do with refresh rate
>Posts image with clearly defined refresh rate and fucking circles it

[Anonymous No.8315089]

>>8309328
>PALbros
>shafted
if getting 480i instead of 480p is getting shafted, so is getting 480p instead of 720p. checkmate liberals.

[Anonymous No.8315091]

>>8315075
>>8315086
I've come to find out he's either the resident shitposter that posts about the master system or he's australia that hates treasure

[Anonymous No.8315124]

>>8315091
I'm not so sure. His MO is very specific, he confidently makes some "ackshually" claim, then doubles down when he's proven wrong and posts that laughing girls picture (or some variant like picrel). Those other posters come across as weirdly obsessed autists, this guy just has serious mental problems.
He will now start accusing people of samefagging and claim to have BTFO'd everyone, then say "rent free" despite obviously not knowing what that means.

[Anonymous No.8315267]

>>8315075
>>8315086
That's some gold wining mental gymnastics you kids have going on there. The chart shows that there are different broadcast systems that use different field frequencies that use the PAL color encoding system. Are you only pretending to be retarded or are you really so stupid you can't see that?

[Anonymous No.8315352]

>>8315267
It's alright, it's an anonymous board, you don't have to try and save face.

[Anonymous No.8315362]

Regardless of all the schizo arguments
PAL 60 is a cleaner and nicer looking image than NTSC even on composite

[Anonymous No.8315430]

>>8315362
thats becuase the only difference between that and ntsc IS color encoding

[Anonymous No.8315882]

>>8310402
PAL-M is 60Hz, but as it was a braziilian thing, nobody cared

[Anonymous No.8316158]

>>8309328
Im from argentina and i always had NTSC consoles. But i know for a fact PAL was a thing here too. I also know PAL was the standard in brazil, but all my SEGAs and Nintendos were always NTSC, always had to use a 110v to 220v adapter otherwise everything would explode.

[Anonymous No.8316365]

>>8309328
Is there any particular reason that map has Uruguay as part of Brazil and the black sea as a country?

[Anonymous No.8316918]

>>8316365
welcome to the berenstein timeline kid

[Anonymous No.8316939]

>>8316365
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisplatina

[Anonymous No.8317016]

>>8316918
For the love of God don't bring this up again. That Mandela Effect thread from a few months back was horrendous.

[Anonymous No.8318950]

>>8316939
that doesn't explain shit

[Anonymous No.8318983]

>>8312451
So how is there pal 50 and pal 60 then if it is a standard?

[Anonymous No.8318995]

>>8318983
Please think for a second, if pal60 was widely supported in the 90s, why would anyone convert any game to proper pal60? Pal60 is a modern thing, and by modern I mean like 2000 and later

[Anonymous No.8319000]

>>8318995
>Please think for a second

Most TVs supported 60hz in the 90's. That's the problem, "most". You still had maybe 15% of the market that were 50hz only, old TVs, and shitty first price TVs, usually the small TVs you buy for a kid's room... Hope you understand the problem now.

[Anonymous No.8319005]

>>8319000
They didn't, and even if they did do you think a snes can output it? I grew up on an airforce base in Germany, I have first hand experience

[Anonymous No.8319007]

>>8318995
Yes I get you but I am just asking because people are foaming at the mouth claiming that one of the main focus' on the pal standard is the fact its 50hz when pal does both 50hz and 60hz

[Anonymous No.8319017]

>>8319007
These people are wrong, pal60 was added later, and until someone shows me otherwise a completely post y2k thing and I'm not even sure was an official thing. Hell 240p wasn't even a "real" spec according to ntsc standards. It skips every other line, it's why you get scanlines, it's still 480i as far as the equipment is concerned.

Neither snes or mega drive do pal 60 without physical mods. Europeans have some strange thing about defending pal, it's like Americans with shitty health care. For video games, pal sucked back then and sucks now

[Anonymous No.8319058]

>>8319005
Why do you think the Dreamcast enforced the 60hz policy and why everyone bitched at early PS2 titles being 50hz only? How could that happen, if as you say, most TVs could not support 60hz ? This was only possible because most TVs had been supporting it for a while; It's not like these days when consumers get a new TV every 2 years either.

[Anonymous No.8319110]

>>8319058
Remind me again when ps2 came out? Also, dreamcast has a ton of 50hz only games, first party even. A simple Google search would show you that.

[Anonymous No.8319118]

>>8309347
>>8309535
>>8309956
>>8316158
VOTEN BIEN, PELOTUDOS

[Anonymous No.8319140]

>>8319058
Also, now I think about it. Nothing n64 and back could do pal60. Once again, my point stands. Pal 60 is a modern thing that wasn't a factor back when retro games were the current games.

[Anonymous No.8319406]

>>8319118
I'm in the army

[Anonymous No.8319465]

>>8319140
I used PAL 60 on my Saturn and PS1 through modding
By Dreamcast all consoles had 60hz capability

[Anonymous No.8320086]

>>8319465
>through modding

Also, dreamcast had a ton of pal games that only did 50hz.

[Anonymous No.8320391]

>>8320086
>through modding
yes, SEGA console boards were multi region with a simple switch can change region and 50/60hz
>Also, dreamcast had a ton of pal games that only did 50hz.
so?

[Anonymous No.8320712]

>>8318995
Dreamcast supported PAL60

[Anonymous No.8320717]

>>8319465
PS1 didn't support PAL60, it only supported NTSC and PAL50. Which one was used was determined by the software. Same thing with PS2, if you only had composite cables and chose 60hz in games that supported both 50hz and 60hz, you got the worse NTSC colors.

[Anonymous No.8320719]

>>8319058
>why everyone bitched at early PS2 titles being 50hz only
People didn't bitch hard enough since so many seminal PS2 games only support 50hz in Europe, like all Square games, Silent Hills 2 and 4, both MGS games and every Grand Theft Auto.

[Anonymous No.8320724]

Vgh imagine the glorious alternate timeline in which Japan chose PAL instead...

[Anonymous No.8320926]

>>8320717
>PS1 didn't support PAL60
I’m not sure you understand what pal60 is

[Anonymous No.8320959]

>>8319017
Why do you so urgently need to defend ntsc?

No need to defend PAL. read the specs. PAL was better for analog broadcast tv, which is why most of the world used it. I have witnessed this first hand, even on a tiny 14" crt the difference is obvious.

[Anonymous No.8320996]

>>8320926
I think you don't.

[Anonymous No.8321015]

>>8320996
Do you know what a crystal oscillator does?
A game doesn’t need to be pal to play at pal60

[Anonymous No.8321042]

>>8320959
I'm not defending ntsc, I'm just laying out facts. Also, last I checked this isn't a analog broadcast board, it's a retro video game board. The specs are clear, for games ntsc is better. The extra resolution of pal was really never a factor for video games. By the time we started getting modern 3d engines that could run at different resolutions easily the world converted to hdmi and HD.

[Anonymous No.8321173]

>>8320926
Going to need you to elaborate on that one, champ.

[Anonymous No.8321331]

>>8321042
Last year I played metroid prime on a crt. Gamecube would give an option in PAL reigons to run at 60hz before the game starts but I noticed that the colours were awful so I opted to play at 50hz and had no regrets.

[Anonymous No.8321340]

>>8321331
So wait, your say you played a pal game at 60hz, thought it looked bad and switched the same game to 50hz and thought it looked better? Are you saying instead of a pal60 you get ntsc 60 when you select it?

[Anonymous No.8321815]

>>8321331
Why not just use SCART cables since you have a PAL Gamecube anyway?

[Anonymous No.8322319]

>>8321331
>Gamecube would give an option in PAL reigons to run at 60hz before the game starts but I noticed that the colours were awful so I opted to play at 50hz and had no regrets.
50/60hz shouldn't change colors.

[Anonymous No.8322589]

>>8309328
Its a damn shame that Atari chose to release the 2600 in pal50 rather than pal60. Whilst I have no evidence for this, I am pretty sure most tvs available in 1972 would have tolerated pal60 due to the vertical hold control. Imagine a timeline where all games ran at 60hz everywhere, that could have been our reality.

[Anonymous No.8322840]

>>8322319
Normally yeah, it shouldn't. Unless you're using composite and 60Hz mode outputs NTSC instead of PAL60.

[Anonymous No.8323419]

>>8322589
>I'm nuttier than a fruit cake but identify as one

[Anonymous No.8323491]

Wasn't expecting so many Argentines itt

[Anonymous No.8324775]

>>8309328
Not on c64 but definitely shafted with jap 90s consoles. Shame there wasn't enough games /consoles/developers that cared enough to do it correctly.

>>8322840
Or the tv didn't properly support pal60.