Was it really THAT bad?

[Anonymous No.8220795]

>The most hyped game of the century
>Literally forgotten, and never recieves any praise or mentions aside from Midna porn

[Anonymous No.8220804]

The Legend of Zelda: Brown Princess

[Anonymous No.8220818]

>>8220795
it's good

[Anonymous No.8220832]

>>8220795
I never beat it cause I think I was working a lot when it came out, but I enjoyed it when I did play it. my022

[Anonymous No.8220835]

Awful start with all the tutorials and shit. Feels like an eternity for things to get going.
Once you get a proper sword and get into the first dungeon, it picks up and it's overall pretty enjoyable. Climbing vine walls is still mind numbingly slow.

[Anonymous No.8220841]

>>8220835
>get into the first dungeon
you mean arbiter's grounds.

[Anonymous No.8220858]

>>8220795
It's not infamous enough thanks to Skyward Sword, and isn't pseudo-controversial the way Breath of the Wild is (or as relevant, obviously). At its best it creates a feeling of place and atmosphere that's unrivaled for the series, and the game design has its moments, but it feels a little clumsy and desperate.

[Anonymous No.8220874]

I like WW's tropical feel a lot but TP's wild west feel is good too.
I dont understand the controversy at all about TP. All that stuff went over my head and I just experienced the game purely as itself with no outside influence.
Maybe I'm softer on TP because SS and BoTW totally failed to deliver anything memorable to me.

[Anonymous No.8220923]

>>8220795
It's not bad, just soulless. It tries way too hard at being OoT but bigger and better, and yet it somehow feels emptier and in some things a straight-up regression. It's at its best when it actually tries to do its own thing i.e. when Zant was the big bad and actually looked like a menacing son of a bitch that was conquering everything. It loses steam the moment Ganondorf is revealed.

[Anonymous No.8220937]

the wolf parts ruin it

[Anonymous No.8220956]

>>8220795
Pure fanservice wank from a developer who didn’t want to make it, the mgs4 of Zelda

[Anonymous No.8220974]

>>8220795
>too many cutscenes for every little event trigger
>too dark and brown
>underwhelming items

[Anonymous No.8220981]

>>8220974
double claw shot water bomb and hidden skills are some of the best new additions the zelda series has seen

[Anonymous No.8221037]

It's not THAT bad. At the same time it's the Zelda game I have the least desire to ever revisit, because it has so little going on.
Seems to pretty exclusively get hyped by people who played it as their first Zelda, or people who are too weak to handle N64 graphics.

[Anonymous No.8221062]

>>8220874
TP was hyped through the roof as the "true sequel to OOT" after MM and WW were both kind of weird experimental take on the franchise, and then it got delayed a year so it could launch simultaneously with the Wii, and then it came out and it was just a sort of okay OOT wannabe that felt like pretty much an all around downgrade once the newness factor had worn off.
It's very much the Force Awakens of Zelda. Not awful, if taken in a vacuum, but it just kind of leaves you wondering why it needed to exist, and why they couldn't have done something more.

[Anonymous No.8221092]

It's just OoT: Take 2
Doesn't make it a bad game at all, quite good in fact, but definitely lacking in personality compared to other games in the franchise

[Anonymous No.8221093]

>>8221062
TP should have came out in 2002 following OOT & MM, Wind Waker should have been a 2007 release alongside Mario Galaxy

[Anonymous No.8221096]

>>8220981
funny how they never returned, though

[Anonymous No.8221104]

>>8221093
Arguably, yeah. Get your bog standard Zelda out the way to shill the Gamecube, and then do the experimental game.

[Anonymous No.8221123]

>>8221104
Well, they ended up doing that anyway, but with the Wii instead.

[Anonymous No.8221131]

There was rumors that Miyamoto had to step in and help produce this game halfway through its dev cycle. You can tell that the 2nd half of the game has his finger prints over it. Wolf stuff was nonexistent, pacing was better, story was basically dropped.

First half of the game was the opposite. It has all of the flaws that a Aonuma Zelda usually has. Terrible pacing with cheesy anime story.

[Anonymous No.8221138]

>>8220795
Completely forgettable and beat for beat a copy of OoT

[Anonymous No.8221148]

>>8221131
Insisting that Ganon has to be there because it's a Zelda game does seem like one of those moments of Miyamoto autism.

[Anonymous No.8221150]

>>8221104
>Get your bog standard Zelda

even after ocarina of time came out, what would you call a "bog standard" zelda game?
fucking every zelda had at least some differences.

[Anonymous No.8221156]

>>8221138
ocarina didn't have a godawful wagon escort mission.

[Anonymous No.8221162]

>>8221131
>You can tell that the 2nd half of the game has his finger prints over it.
I wonder how true this exactly, and to what degree.
It seems to me that while Miyamoto has some autism regarding the Mario and Star Fox and F-Zero, he knows exactly what makes Zelda good in my opinion.
Majora's Mask is the only non-Miyamoto Zelda game that I routinely replay.

[Anonymous No.8221163]

The "Zelda cycle" as people imagine it doesn't really exist.
What kinda happened in reality is that, OoT and MM are still the best (3D) Zelda games Nintendo has ever made, WW was butt-tier awful for many reasons aside from the reactionary rebellion to its art-style (which, don't get me wrong, looks good but never synergised with the series); Twilight Princess was I think the best post-N64 attempt at a traditional linear adventure, but that's a heavily qualified accolade. Skyward Sword had a wonky art style (backgrounds, lovely, characters, mediocre to bad to with few exceptions) and was a weirdly bland and content-anemic to say it took 5 years to release. BotW is a new style of Zelda aping Bethesda and Ubisoft open-world sandboxes so it doesn't really compare well, however I will very harshly criticise Nintendo for taking an eternity to produce BotW2 when all the stuff shown in trailers so far looks like it should barely justify a paid DLC release. Fucking unacceptable. Get your shit together Nintendo.

tl;dr - TP is the best of a bad bunch released during the post-N64 dark ages. The sum of its parts puts it above average, and that's the most we can seem to hope for until they get Koizumi back into a leading role.

[Anonymous No.8221187]

>>8220795
The only thing bad about it is the tutorial. Wind Waker was the terrible Gamecube Zelda

[Anonymous No.8221201]

>>8221163
People only started to pretend to care about MM until after TP came out zoomer

[Anonymous No.8221237]

>>8221131
>>8221162
It is confirmed by Aonuma himself that Twilight Princess's development was "struggling" because he was too busy stroking his Toon Link dick with Minish cap.

[Anonymous No.8221281]

>>8221150
Classic Hyrule, as in big field with castles and shit, Princess Zelda and Ganon show up, six or more dungeons, and the Triforce is probably in there somewhere.

[Anonymous No.8221287]

>>8220795
For me it felt like a standard, generic action adventure game with a LoZ paint. The magic was gone.

[Anonymous No.8221291]

>>8221201
I always liked MM. It always felt weird as a sequel to OOT, having only four dungeons and stuff, but I got over that over the years and learned to appreciate the ways it makes up for it.
I think most people felt like that. At the time I don't remember anyone really hating MM. More just a general mood that it was second best on the N64.

[Anonymous No.8221293]

It should've been way more mature. Link's sword should be soaked with blood after beating enemies, Midna should leak blood, and all the brown should be replaced with dark red

[Anonymous No.8221294]

>>8221237
>Minish cap.
Wasn't even developed by Nintendo. That was Capcom's fuckup to make. I think you meant "Spirit Tracks", which Aonuma took a personal interest in because Phantom Hourglass was so very shite. Which is fine, until he realized the Twilight Princess team seemingly couldn't even wipe their own assholes without him coaching them on proper technique.

[Anonymous No.8221295]

>>8221293
Minda should get her period, and there should be a story arc where Tingle gets breast cancer.

[Anonymous No.8221296]

>>8220795
So bad that made Wind Waker look good.

[Anonymous No.8221304]

>>8220795
It's actually better than most people remember it

[Anonymous No.8221312]

>>8221131
>>8221148
>>8221162
Considering Miyamoto insisted that Skyward Sword *had* to incorporate the Wii's motion tech in some way (Aonuma reportedly had so little confidence in the basic package sans WiiMotionPlus that he was developing it for the Classic Controller with basic WiiMote backup controls), I think it would be wrong to lean too heavily into the "Aonuma bad therefore Miyamoto good" mindset. Both can be certified disasters when given the appropriate length of rope to hang themselves.

[Anonymous No.8221319]

>>8221296
I wouldn't go that far. In my opinion they're just about par, with Wind Waker simply faceplanting in different ways than Twilight Princess. The music in Twilight Princess was wretched, while Wind Waker had a practically non-existent difficulty curve, for example.

[Anonymous No.8221327]

>>8221294
Nope. Minish Cap.
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/feature/13089/eiji-aonumas-gdc-2007-presentation-a-lupine-direction-and-minish-cap

>I left the realistic Zelda team to work details and began work as director of The Minish Cap for the Game Boy Advance, which Capcom developed. Even in the weakening Japanese market, the Game Boy Advance install-base continued to grow. The market seemed to have stabilized and as one of the titles that would help sustain it, Minish Cap was very important to the franchise. Also, because this game involved Link moving freely between the normal world and the microscopic world of the Minish, which was very close to the idea that we were shooting for with the realistic Zelda, I was very passionate about my work on this title. I felt certain that the way the gameplay changed as the environment changed in Minish Cap would have a positive effect on the development of the realistic Zelda. In hindsight, by immersing myself in the Minish Cap project, I gave myself a way to escape from not being able to find a breakthrough on the realistic Zelda project. I regret that I might have been too selfish, thinking that I could just leave my staff to come up with the solution, but my mistake in thinking caught up with me.
Continues on next page:
>Having released Minish Cap without a hitch, I started to think about what content to include on the E3 2005 playable version of the realistic Zelda. However, development on the project that I hadn’t been able to support was struggling. Although there were various small sections of gameplay that would create the framework for the game, there wasn’t one single distinctive model of play or a timeline that would connect each of the events.

[Anonymous No.8221329]

>>8221062
It wouldn't have existed except Zelda fans wouldn't shut the fuck up about wanting Nintendo to catch lightening in a bottle for yet the third time. Just like they wouldn't shut the fuck up about wanting a MM enhanced-port/remake on the 3DS to go along with OOT:3D, which gave us the underwhelming MM:3D. Once again, Zelda fans prove that they are their own worst enemy, just like Star Wars and Star Trek fans.

[Anonymous No.8221331]

>>8221294
>>8221327
Though he did start drooling the minute her heard the DS could do cel shading
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/feature/13088/eiji-aonumas-gdc-2007-presentation-zelda-ds-prototype
> The team that had developed Four Swords Adventures, had already begun work on DS Zelda. Upon returning from E3, I heard from my staff that the DS was hardware was capable of supporting toon-shading. I immediately asked my staff to implement cel-shading on the DS because I was disappointed that the cel-shaded Zelda was not received as well as I had hoped.

[Anonymous No.8221334]

>>8221327
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Legend_of_Zelda%3A_The_Minish_Cap
>Developers: Capcom, Flagship

[Anonymous No.8221336]

>>8221331
>more fanfiction

[Anonymous No.8221339]

>>8221329
Well, they literally just had to do what they did for OOT3D, and people probably would have been happy. All of the adjustments they made were just strange.

[Anonymous No.8221341]

>>8221334
>>8221336
Aonuma admitted he fucked up, anon. He won't sleep with you for defending his honor on 4chan.

[Anonymous No.8221353]

>>8221339
>All of the adjustments they made were just strange.
It's not that strange once you listen to Aonuma blather on for a bit about the dev period of MM and realize he regards the entire game as one great big mistake to be corrected.

[Anonymous No.8221356]

>>8221341
Every bit of what you just said is some bullshit you've got going on your head, Anon. You made a claim, I refuted it. Simple as.

[Anonymous No.8221358]

>>8221062
TP isn't even just a OOT wannabe. It also was a ALTTP wannabe.

[Anonymous No.8221359]

>>8221356
It's literally his key note speech he made at GDC 2007.

[Anonymous No.8221373]

>>8220795
>Literally forgotten, and never recieves any praise or mentions
yes because it's ocarina of time for kids with ADHD
no point in playing it now since you could just play OoT

[Anonymous No.8221379]

>>8220795
This is my favorite Zelda, and here's why:

>Horseback combat. Used to just spend hours hunting the pig riders with a bow on horseback.
>Combat in general is great, and TP is the FIRST Zelda game which has actual combat mechanics besides "mash button". Every IronKnuckle fight feels epic, and the Cave of Ordeals is just awesome.
>Atmosphere is kino. Spinny Surfboard is kind of silly, but c'mon, who wasn't blown away by THAT boss fight. Also this link is feelz:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Nq-gEG-E04
>Climbing the rooftops in the rain to see Zelda for the first time after the whole kingdom's gone to shit while Midna's Lament plays is one of the most kino moments in the whole franchise
>Midna as imp makes me feel funny things.
>Also, pic-related
>Dungeons 4,5 and 6 were some of the coolest level designs ever, and the Sky Palace boss was awesome
>Turning into a wolf wasn't usually useful, but it was cool af once you got to do it voluntarily
>Chasing glowybugs was a dumb sidequest, but it was also pretty if you did it at night.
>Fishing minigame area had 4 different seasons, and was the most relaxing thing ever
>Spider-Man hookshots
>Best final dungeon in all of Zelda games. I especially like when the penultimate boss, the giant Molblin King says "you know what, fuck this stupid job" and just walks away.

This game was good. It just didn't do anything "new". Some type of gimmick seems to be mandatory for new Zelda games. Twilight Princess was just an updated version of OoT with better graphic design and visuals, plus a much better combat system. idgaf what people say, this one's my favorite, always

[Anonymous No.8221405]

>>8221359
And I'm here to tell you he LITERALLY didn't direct that game, Hidemaro Fujibayashi did. Which makes sense, because Aonuma works for Nintendo, not Capcom or Flagship.

[Anonymous No.8221409]

>>8221405
>Aonuma literally got up on a stage and said he fucked up by putting his focus on Minish Cap
>"CAN'T HEAR YOU FAKE NEWS FAKE NEWS"

[Anonymous No.8221416]

>>8221379
>TP is the FIRST Zelda game which has actual combat mechanics besides "mash button
most of them are taken directly from wind waker, and done worse because they cut the cool dodges and gave you gay samurai insta kills

[Anonymous No.8221423]

>>8221409
Aonuma can get up onstage and rewrite his history all he wants. He had practically nothing to do with the Oracle games or Minish Cap, not even as a Producer (which is already far removed from actual work on a game, BTW, the job tittle you're looking for is more accurately "Director", "Designer", "Programmer", etc).

[Anonymous No.8221424]

>>8221423
>tittle
*title

[Anonymous No.8221432]

>>8221379
I'd argue it's not really an "updated OOT", since it's a worse game than OOT in most regards. To use the Force Awakens example again, you could call that an "updated" Star Wars, but you probably shouldn't.

[Anonymous No.8221490]

>>8221379
Game is special to me because I waited in line overnight to get the wii and got the game on launch, first and only time I ever did something like that. There was like 40 people in line outside of bestbuy the night before, and you guessed it, most had Nintendo DS. So it was actually super fun, mario kart, tetris, pictochat.
Also, I was a highschool senior, and a girl i liked was into the zelda games. I loaned her the wii so she could play it, we are married and have a family now.

Waggle controls where shit though.

[Anonymous No.8221495]

>>8220795
This and WW were awesome.

[Anonymous No.8221496]

TP is great. Most people's complaints stems from the slow introduction, which they also blow out of proportion. the wolf segments suck, but the rest is great adventuring

>fishing and herding goats like a farmhand
>friends and neighbors are kidnapped
>have to break into your own village and get hunted and chased by your neighbors trying to get a sword and shield
>fun starter dungeon and the goron mines was great
>lake hylia is fucking huge and you can actually swim around it for once
>snowboarding against yetis
>jousting on the bridge and fighting bulbin in the western town
>GOD tier dungeons
>spidermanning around with he clawshots
>all those hidden skills to make combat the best in the series
>finishing blow alleviates the godawful invincibility enemies had in windwaker
>great final boss fight(s) against ganon
>dark story
>aiming the bow with the wiimote/gyroscope on wiiU
>the return to the lost woods was really cool and even paid tribute to the original mechanics

[Anonymous No.8221503]

>>8220974
>>underwhelming items
>ball and chain to smack around enemies
>iron boots that let you walk on the ceiling
>underwater bombs
>double clawshots
>scope for your bow and arrow
>a fucking beyblade to zoom around the desert on
>command rod to control statues to fight enemies
>an ACTUAL fishing rod of your own, plus tons of lures

[Anonymous No.8221507]

>>8221416
the only thing taken from WW is the counter, what the fuck are you talking about

[Anonymous No.8221508]

>>8221131
Lol that isnt how development works. They didnt work on the game in the same linear progression as you play it. 4 replies believing this. Holy fuck, /vr/. I thought this was one of the smart boards.

[Anonymous No.8221527]

>>8221291
Most didn't care about the n64 and moved onto Gamecube & PS1 hype, this is why Perfect Dark recieved such rave reviews but didn't win game of the year or recieve the same kind of praise GoldenEye did. Had they launched it a year later on the GameCube it would have

[Anonymous No.8221559]

>>8221432
>worse than OoT

Now, objectively speaking, OoT is "The Best Always" because of legacy and how cool it was at the time.

Graphics on TP were simply better, combat for TP was TONS better, atmosphere was better on everything from the overworld to the dungeons, Midna > Navi no fucking question.

I'm not really criticizing OoT. But I enjoyed playing TP better because the world itself was more fun to explore.

[Anonymous No.8221564]

>>8221559
I don't agree. TP feels dead and brown, and any cool tweaks they might have made to the combat are overshdowed by how easy it all is.

[Anonymous No.8221575]

>>8221201
I remember being hyped for MM waiting for it as a Christmas Present, and playing it all year. It still one of the most memorable games I ever had, and most people I talked to had same experience of it.

[Anonymous No.8221593]

>>8221564
I never said anything about "challenge". Combat was more fun because you could do more things, and there were more complex enemies. There isn't much "challenge" to any Zelda game.
>horseback combat
>jousting
>fight as a wolf
>craft exploding arrows with a FUCKING SNIPER SCOPE
>epic fencing duels with IronKnuckles
>Shield Bash
Combat wasn't hard, but you could at least entertain yourself. It felt heroic.

Also, you seem to be implying that OoT had difficult combat, which it most certainly did not, aside from the Dark Link mini-boss. Even that fight was just spam attack to win.

[Anonymous No.8221606]

>>8221593
>Also, you seem to be implying that OoT had difficult combat, which it most certainly did not,

That caught my notice too. It always shocks me when OOT fanboys or ALTTP fanboys seem to think that the games ultra simple babby combat is remotely challenging. The most charitable word I can think of describe the battles in those games is "functional", but there's not much to it.

[Anonymous No.8221609]

I've never once been able to get more than 5 hours into the game before quitting out of boredom. The first dungeon is ok but everything surrounding that for the first 5 hours is fucking awful and tedious. Nothing about the world made me think "I need to stick with it" and by the time you get to the second Wolf hunt section I just want to stop playing.
I don't even know if anyone could convince me to really give it a chance because I don't want to play those first 5 hours again.

[Anonymous No.8221614]

>>8221606
Yes, but there's a line where something becomes so easy it's just insulting and TP is where Zelda crossed it.

[Anonymous No.8221620]

>>8221593
>There isn't much "challenge" to any Zelda game.
Why do people like you do this. Why do people pretend the original Zelda, or Zelda 2 werent challenging. Theyre literally lying and everyone knows it, yet they just continue to lie to falsely feed their ego or something. Fucking faggots, man. Fucking faggots.

[Anonymous No.8221623]

>>8221614
I wish it were easy to play without getting bored

[Anonymous No.8221662]

>>8221508
>Lol that isnt how development works.
Most of them still haven't figured out that the man they owe all their wonderful old-skool Zelda nostalgia to is Takashi Tezuka, not Shigeru Miyamoto.

[Anonymous No.8221670]

>>8221620
I didn't find Zelda too easy until Aonuma got a hold of the series, frankly.

[Anonymous No.8221684]

I was never a big Nintendo fan, so I tended to buy consoles either never (emulate it), or deep into the life of the console. So for example I'll probably get a switch when I can get one for like 200. And I'll get the games for less than early adopters paid.

Point being, I'm out here playing MMX Collection, Burnout 3, MGS3: Subsistence, and a fuckload of other stuff in 2006, got a good deal on a GameCube and played Metroid Prime 1-2 until TP came out. Never touched a 3d Zelda before, so I was going from LttP to this. Feelsgoodman.

[Anonymous No.8221697]

>>8220835
HD version thankfully fixed that, among other petpeeves with the game. They sped up Link climbing significantly.

[Anonymous No.8221712]

>>8221163
God, I wish Koizumi would work his magic on Zelda, but what is honestly the chances for that? During an Iwata Asks, he did ask Aonuma if he wanted to trade series and Aonuma told Koizumi "no".

[Anonymous No.8221847]

>>8220795
It wasn't bad at all, it was just designed by committee because Miyamoto was so shocked by initial reaction to WW (which went on to be beloved and acclaimed, so it was only that initial reaction). TP being made exactly according to what they thought fans expected instead caused the game to be solid while failing to be special. All games matching this design profile will be forgotten just by nature.

[Anonymous No.8221854]

>>8221847
>which went on to be beloved and acclaimed
translators note: it didn't

[Anonymous No.8221859]

>>8221847
>which went on to be beloved and acclaimed, so it was only that initial reaction
By some people.
Anyway consumers did eventually get used to the idea of Toon Link, you're right about that, but regardless of the art style WW is still an extremely flawed game and (by a pretty wide margin) the worst 3D Zelda.

Critics harp on about the sailing but that's honestly the least of its problems.

[Anonymous No.8221862]

>>8221712
I get the impression Koizumi is never touching a Zelda title again until Aonuma moves onto to something else. Not that it'd matter anyway, OOT and MM turning out like they did were one in a million events. By all rights they should've been complete disasters.

[Anonymous No.8221963]

It's the ugliest 3D Zelda, that's for sure.

[Anonymous No.8221983]

>>8221606
I don't know exactly how to describe it, but even with TP's frills and OoT still being an generally easy game, I still enjoy OoT's fights and swordplay more.
Maybe it's not exactly a difficulty thing, but feedback, sound effects, simplicity and so on.

Ocarina doesn't have anything like Twilight Princess forcing you to wait for an enemy to stand back up so you can kill them before you get the finishing move.

[Anonymous No.8221998]

>>8221983
Peak Zelda combat to me is Odolwa.
It's an (almost) purely martial fight against a big dude; no lame item gimmicks, no 'instant resets' in the AI, no bullshit invincibility frames, or anything like that- and it's just really fucking fun.

Makes me wish that, instead of copying Skyrim, Nintendo copied Demons Souls as the series' new formula going forward.
Like yeah a couple bosses in the Aonuma games were neat, but Skyward Sword releasing 2 years after DeS makes for a bleak comparison, the same way you'd go "man what the fuck were you guys doing" comparing something like Metal Slug 3D (2006) to Ratchet and Clank 1, 2 or 3 (2002,2003,2004).

[Anonymous No.8222001]

>>8220974
I hate TP but the items were cool, anon

[Anonymous No.8222085]

>>8221379
I will say that the fishing in TP was HUGELY underrated, and was probably the best thing to do in the game.

[Anonymous No.8222109]

>>8221490
>we are married and have a family now.
woah that's awesome man, I am jelly, good for you, take care of them.

[Anonymous No.8222127]

>>8220795
After Ocarina of Time a lot of developers took notes. They saw what worked, what didn't, and Nintendo by nature remained very insular. You had developers like Fumito Ueda, From Software, Quintet and so many more that took hints.

Closest thing we got to an imitation was a total reinvention. Team ICO put out their first title, ICO. It wasn't a massive success but it succeeded tremendously at everything it tried to do. Visually, tonally, and thematically it recreated a true sense of adventure. Not bogged down with mediocre and obvious puzzling and inventory management, no winding dialog dispensers - yet it achieved much of the same and more.

The industry wanted more. Nintendo refused to see what was going on and simply redid what was already done in their earlier games but worse somehow. Wind Waker didn't turn out very well and everyone knows it. Nintendo misread and thought the problem was just the art style with Wind Breaker, they basically just made Ocarina again although with even less substance to the game play.

The world reacted again, they saw Twilight Princess, features like horse combat were teased and the style looked like a correction to Wind Wakers half-finished aesthetic. It was just Ocarina again. More of the same, more droning dialog, missed tones and awkwardly handled atmosphere. Zelda games could be more but they aren't landing. Nintendo is too overbearing with direction, too afraid of change. It's starting to fall back on them now.

A shadow was looming that presented a meaningful and non-pretentious alternative. Sony knew they had something big on their hands and even made a reissue of the earlier title ICO. Shadow of the Colossus was unveiled and later hit the scene. The world stopped in awe at a game which truly pushed the genre Zelda claimed for itself. There was no going back. Shadow elevated the sense of adventure and tapped into classical themes of tragedy superbly. The next great adventure was here, and not from Nintendo.

[Anonymous No.8222134]

>>8222127
>Team ICO
>non-pretentious
Pick one and only one.

[Anonymous No.8222136]

>>8222134
You don't know what the word pretentious means.

[Anonymous No.8222138]

>>8222136
I know that Icofags rival Kojimafags in terms of being up their own ass. There's probably a lot of crossover there.

[Anonymous No.8222141]

>>8222138
Nonsense from a very upset Zelda fan. I suppose when you tell yourself that your game is the "greatest of all time" for 20 years any doubt must be from sinister people in the shadows.

[Anonymous No.8222142]

>>8222141
>nonsense
Did you read your own copypasta?

[Anonymous No.8222145]

>>8222142
What part of it didn't you understand?

[Anonymous No.8222146]

>>8222145
How anyone could post it unironically.

[Anonymous No.8222149]

>>8222146
So what part of it don't you get? Are you just triggered by ico? So far your mental breakdown has been entirely emotional like you're afraid to say what you mean.

[Anonymous No.8222153]

>>8222149
What I mean is pretty clear, Team Ico make mediocre games that get praised by pretentious twats because they're ""art"". Much like Kojima games.

[Anonymous No.8222154]

>>8222153
How?

[Anonymous No.8222160]

>>8222154
The easiest way to tell if something has a fraud fanbase is if they namedrop the director of the game constantly. As if games are made by one pretentious asshole in charge and not a team of more talented people.

[Anonymous No.8222174]

>>8222160
So knowing people who worked on the game is bad? I don't understand what you mean by that. Certain game designers and directors have authorial marks in their works, whether it be down to art direction, map design, narrative or what have you. A Suda51 game usually feels like a Suda51 game, his less popular titles are often criticized for not feeling like them enough. Ueda's usual trait is a type of minimalism. I guess Aonuma's Zeldas are interchangeable with Miyamotos for the most part, most design by committee games are. Your post rings hollow though, why don't you say something of substance?

[Anonymous No.8222176]

>>8222174
>he actually believes in auteur theory
Fucking lol.

[Anonymous No.8222178]

>>8222176
Can you say something of substance?

[Anonymous No.8222179]

>>8222178
Is minimalism bad now?

[Anonymous No.8222180]

>>8222179
Just depends what is done with it

[Anonymous No.8222182]

>>8222180
How many shitty games by supposed industry legends have to be made before you realize that auteur theory is bullshit?

[Anonymous No.8222183]

>>8222176
Auteur worship is a cancer upon this website and must be weeded out at all costs

[Anonymous No.8222184]

>>8222182
I don't subscribe to auteur theory, I just think the people who make games matter. Ueda did a lot of heavy lifting on designing Ico and I wouldn't undersell his work. Why do you think I subscribe to it? Because I know the name of the director of a game? That's very pretentious of you.

[Anonymous No.8222185]

>>8222184
>Why do you think I subscribe to it?
Because you described the theory as it pertains to video games and said that Suda51's games are an example of it.

[Anonymous No.8222186]

>>8222185
Do you think game directors have no input on games? Or do you think I think a single person makes absolutely everything in a game? I really have no idea where you're going with it, but you're sure doing a good job of making the dumbest position I've ever seen your own. It's almost like it's your trademark or something.

[Anonymous No.8222190]

>>8222186
All I said is that auteur theory is bullshit. Games are made by teams of people.

[Anonymous No.8222191]

>>8222190
What a useless contribution

[Anonymous No.8222194]

>>8222191
Said the pretentious loser who entered this thread just to post his dumbass copypasta and then proceed to backpedal endlessly.

[Anonymous No.8222209]

>>8221294
Kill yourself

[Anonymous No.8222235]

>>8222209
you first

[Anonymous No.8222247]

>>8222194
The value of my post is paid for in your tears and constant submission to me. Thank you for replying and above all proving me right.

[Anonymous No.8222252]

>>8222247
Can you not post your gay fantasies in this thread please?

[Anonymous No.8222257]

>>8222252
Thank you for replying and constant submission to me.

[Anonymous No.8222292]

>>8221508
There's multiple interviews about Twilight Princess's troubled development. Some were even posted in this very thread. Its documented that Aonuma was spread thin during that time period. The rumor that Miyamoto stepped in was first reported on IGN back in 2005.

[Anonymous No.8222387]

>>8221503
The items have almost 0 utility outside the dungeons they are found in. My greatest dissapointment is not being able to use the spinner as a replacement for Epona.

[Anonymous No.8222398]

>>8220795
Last time I played it was in like 2008. I think I only ever got as far as the forest temple until dropping it entirely. It's just such a dull game.

That being said, Midna really is the GOAT for fapbait though.

[Anonymous No.8222449]

It's my favorite next to ALttP, because of it's dark atmosphere, making up for the huge disappointment I had with WW's childish graphics.
The wolf segments though make me not ever want to play it again.
Nothing can be worst than BotW with it's 3 minute dungeons and weapons that break after 2 hits

[Anonymous No.8222453]

>>8221312
>*had* to incorporate the Wii's motion tech
ok? Even mario galaxy had motion controls and it was better than skyward sword

[Anonymous No.8222502]

>>8220795
TP is probably one of the most visually distinct Zelda titles after WW flooded the series with Toon Zelda and bright colors.

[Anonymous No.8222513]

I never understood when people say Twilight Princess has the best dungeons in the series. They were just giant set pieces. The N64 games had more complex dungeons.

[Anonymous No.8222516]

I still want Midna to sit on my face bros

[Anonymous No.8222519]

God those two fags really ruined this thread

[Anonymous No.8222523]

>>8220974
>too many cutscenes for every little event trigger
I like TP and liked it back in the day when it first came out, but even back then I noticed this issue and it upset me. EVERY LITTLE THING had a cutscene.

[Anonymous No.8222532]

>>8222523
Nintendo loves making movie games

[Anonymous No.8222648]

>>8220795
It's probably one of the least replayed next to SS because the game frontloads its worst sections. A lot of the later dungeons are cool but it's an absolute slog to get there. The wolf parts were especially bad gameplaywise, compounded by the sounds of someone rubbing their butt on a midi synth whenever any random bat gets within 50 feet of you in the twilight realm. The pieces were there, it just wasn't well executed in many places. Shame they'll probably never try to make an OoT clone again, they'd probably be able to make a much better show of it with the lessons learned from TP.

[Anonymous No.8222657]

>>8220795
I thought it was great, my favorite 3D Zelda

[Anonymous No.8222686]

>>8222648
Personally, I don't mind BotW's open world but I wish they'd return to the more realistic style of TP. It really feels that Koizumi and Aonuma should trade series, Mario has gone for realism when it should be cartoony and Zelda has gone cartoony when it should aim for realism.

[Anonymous No.8222704]

>>8220835
>all the tutorials and shit
Japanese autism tutorials

[Anonymous No.8222764]

>>8222257
you keep replying too, plus you had the last reply, so it looks more like you're in submission to him, based on your very gay logic

[Anonymous No.8223075]

The first half where you collect the Fused Shadows and fetch tears of light in the Twilight is boring and drags on and once it gets better in the second half you're upset it ended so quickly. You start to enjoy playing as Wolf Link after it becomes optional

[Anonymous No.8223101]

Am I the only one who actually enjoyed the story and how it was progressing during the first half i.e. up to Midna's Desperate Hour? Like many in this thread, I too found the gameplay and pace to be frustrating and unfun during the first half of the game, but the plot actually had me intrigued. Once you reach the second half, gameplay-wise, it definitely picks up, but the plot turns into a confused mess before it disappears entirely for several dungeons, until it comes back and ends with a whimper.

tl;dr: first half had shit pace but good story, second half had good pace but shit story.

[Anonymous No.8223149]

>>8223101
Second this. I'll add that the game feels rushed in the later half. This game really should be peak Zelda but it has too many little quirks that add up.

[Anonymous No.8223193]

I've been playing this on Wii U and something I've noticed that I don't remember from the Wii version is that the lighting is very buggy, frame rate drops in a few areas (namely Hyrule Field, which is also a problem in Dolphin), and buggy camera (rapidly zooms in and out if you zoom in while near a wall and doesn't go back to normal until you zoom back in an open area). Wii version doesn't have camera controls and I've never played the GameCube version, so I don't know if the camera glitch has always been present. Also Epona controls are way worse on Wii U compared to Wii.

[Anonymous No.8223951]

>>8222292
And? Im not saying he didnt step in. The post I replied to said he stepped in "during the 2nd half" and thats why the literal 2nd half of the game is different. I'm only sperging out over that post because again, I didnt think /vr/ was full of fucking retards.

[Anonymous No.8223959]

This the Zelda with the best gameplay held back by enemies with piss poor AI and movesets, bad first half pacing, the antagonist getting shafted and getting gutted by the fact that Nintendo has to focus on the retard demographic who get spoked by dialogue, skippable cutscenes and game progression. TP is one of the most ripe Zeldas in the series that was overlooked because Aonuma and Nintendo wanted a safe game that sold multimillions.

Read the manga and realize that an elderly duo of manga writers outdid Miyamoto, Aonuma and Fujibayashi in creating one of the best Zelda adventures ever.

[Anonymous No.8223967]

>>8223959
>overlooked
*Dumbed down

[Anonymous No.8223975]

>>8223959
The zelda manga is gay shit for girls.

[Anonymous No.8223979]

>>8223975
>BOTW is gay shit for girls.
Fix that for you. The manga was the only time they managed to make something good out of the source material.

[Anonymous No.8223992]

>>8220795
Its huge hype leading into it was largely due to (a) being a "return to form" after people were butt-hurt about Wind Waker and (b) riding on the coat-tails of the hype around the Lord of the Rings trilogy with its early trailer depicting horseback rides on fields and fights with a not-Balrog. They conveniently snuck the whole central concept of a Twilight World and a Wolf Link under the radar at the time.

Personally I love the game, its bleakness, the commitment to the "village boy gets tangled up in a battle of good vs evil sweeping the kingdom" theme (which has always been a part of it but never all that much of a focus). And, of course, the dominatrix goddess riding the miffed, but obedient wolf. But I also fap to Midna porn and I can see how people felt bait-and-switched by it. Plus it starts up really slow and there are lots of awkward and the pace of the progression and direction towards what you should be doing is really a flow-breaker. I can see why it's so forgotten, it's got a lot of good elements but as a game it's kind of.... not that great.

[Anonymous No.8224006]

>>8223101
It's not the story progression in the first half that sucks, so much as the game progression. I've been replying it recently but put it down and haven't picked it up in over a month because despite being very into the story, I just cannot be assed to find these fucking fireflies. What's that, you put a third of them in the lake where they belong, a third of them in some upstream level gated by a tedious rail section whose entrance is easy to miss, then a third of them behind a warp half-way across the world, and then for shits and giggles you put one in Hyrule castle that isn't even part of this section of the map. Great. Fantastic. This is exactly what I want from a section of the game that shouldn't even exist. It's only there to pad out game length in a game that was already plenty long and slow-paced.

[Anonymous No.8224007]

>>8223975
>for girls
This whole game is for girls, faggot. Ive never seen a man wearing a Twilight Princess shirt, but have seen at least 2 women.

[Anonymous No.8224337]

>>8221859
HD is the only decent way to play it. Agreed.

[Anonymous No.8224561]

>>8223992
Apparently, the concept of a Twilight Realm and Wolf Link hadn't even been thought of at the time of E3 2004. The trailer was made with a very alpha build of the game that only had 3 weeks of development using a custom camera tool by NoA's staff to make it all cinematic and shit.

[Anonymous No.8224920]

>>8224007
Twilight Princess is the Nightwing of Zelda games in that case.

[Anonymous No.8224990]

>>8220795
Imp midna made me horny as a kid and it made me deeply ashamed.

[Anonymous No.8225043]

>>8220795
Twilight Princess threads are unironically the best threads to discuss Zelda on these boards provided you don’t give impfuckers an inch.

[Anonymous No.8225057]

>>8220832
>my022
I know this feel

[Anonymous No.8225062]

>>8221062
If they wanted it to feel like OoT they shouldn't have added a dumb gimmick like wolf link.

[Anonymous No.8225079]

>>8222523
>first zelda with cutscene skip option
Better than having to sit through OOT's 5 minute intro

[Anonymous No.8225145]

>>8225079
This is a fairly minor thing in a vacuum, but when your game is missing multiple basic QoL features they start piling up and players will begin to notice their conspicuous absence.
And that's exactly the kinda shit I was referring to here >>8221859 when I said WW is the worst Zelda: I haven't tried the HD remaster so maybe they fixed it all, I don't know, but the original gamecube version is a giant pit where all the missing features and fixes for wonky design decisions should go, and it makes the experience (to anyone with modern sensibilities) just absolute fucking agony.

The sailing is again among the least of WW's crimes because at worst it's just boring; I can check my phone and look up at the screen occasionally to make sure I'm not caught on an island since there's no threats whatsoever in the ocean. But the 5th time I accidentally pick up a joy pendant and the game insists upon showing me the same several dialogue boxes of worthless flavour text (using a character-rendering speed they very clearly didn't update from the original kana, ie, being ~2.5x slower on average than it should be) I just want to fucking scream.

[Anonymous No.8225174]

>>8224990
Midna reminded my autistic child brain of flimflam from Scooby doo and instantly put me off the character forever.

[Anonymous No.8225260]

>>8220795
I was old enough to pop a boner when I played this and I never once felt even the slightest attraction to Midna. I'm not sure if it's watching too much cartoon porn or whatever, but you guys need to quit.

[Anonymous No.8225312]

>>8220795
It's not a bad game. Its problem was how underwhelming it was, coming after Ocarina, Wind Waker, and on peak of the hype for the Wii. Eeryone was overexcited for the Wii, and this was the Wii Zelda that was the biggest and baddest of them all, judging by the trailers. But when the game came out, it was kinda average, maybe slightly above average, not at all bad, a bit flawed but fun - not bad, but not nearly good enough.

In hindsight, Ocarina was too linear and simplistic and Wind Waker was the first truly bad Zelda gameplay-wise. In this context, TP is a bit underrated, because it actually has more freedom of exploration, content, as well as sheer challenge than either.

[Anonymous No.8225514]

>>8225145
I remember TP had this same issue, but slightly different. Every time you started your file, whenever you picked up a rupee for the first time that session, it would display the message like it was your first time getting a rupee of that color.

And don't get me started on SS. I had to actually look up some cheat codes to speed up the text and make Fi shut the fuck up and stop bothering me about every little thing. Only game I ever did that for.

[Anonymous No.8225531]

>>8220795
Great atmosphere, great music, action-adventure control scheme nearly perfected. Graphics were surprisingly good given the hardware. Unfortunately, the game is linear as fuck with very few optional quests and no dungeons which can be played out of order, and the items don't have enough uses in the overworld. It feels the most sterile and story-driven of all the games and suffers for it. Story was retarded rubbish and some of the character designs were flat out bad. Overall a solid 8.5. A good game, but it can't touch Ocarina of Time.

[Anonymous No.8225535]

>>8225312
Here's what I felt regarding TP: sure, it's slow as fuck at the beginning, but I got the feeling as I progressed that it was building toward something big. Your village gets invaded, then you get kidnapped and turned into a Wolf and end up in Hyrule Castle, which apparently has been overthrown, taken over, and evidently all of Hyrule thrown into shadow by a masked badass. Yeah, insert "fetch the tears of light and maguffin dungeon runs" here, but once it seemed like you were making some headway, masked badass comes and slaps your shit down like the insect you are because he fucking can. Really felt like shit was gonna get REAL at that point. Midna gets... whatever the fuck happened to her, Zelda disappears... somewhere, and OH YEAH MASTER SWORD TIME.

cont

[Anonymous No.8225545]

>>8225535
And then... nothing. You get left hanging, waiting for progress into a plot that went AWOL, until, randomly, LOL IT WAS GANON ALL ALONG. Masked badass turns out to be a whiny LARPing bitch, Ganon fucking ignores you, all of Hyrule seems oblivious to all the shit that's happening, Zelda is now somehow captured, and Ganon himself just doesn't feel like the King of Evil he was in OoT. Yeah, he was a Saturday morning cartoon villain there, but fuck, at least he went all out with it.

It just fell flat in the end, plot-wise, like they got cold feet with the story and decided to push it out still-born.

[Anonymous No.8227475]

bump

[Anonymous No.8228005]

>>8225514
TP had another thing, which was a "your wallet is full, let's put this rupee you just found back" mechanic, which is nice in theory but when you're hunting for heart pieces and want to clear the map and the map has a decent number of rupee chests... it's pretty annoying. Also there's the unskippable animation.

For what it's worth, I never played SS (I hacked my Wii and couldn't justify getting the motion+ for one game because the damn thing was like 50 AUD back then) so I had just cause to pick up the SS remaster. And yeah they pretty much fixed the Fi issue from what I could tell, because she wasn't obnoxious at all.
Game is still mediocre though. Amazing they perfected these games with the N64 ones and have been trying to reinvent the wheel with varying levels of failure.