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/vr/ - Retro Games


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8168868 No.8168868 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

Who the fuck calls this the "perfect controller" besides retards who grew up with it. Even with that possibility taken into account, I still find it hard to believe.

>> No.8168892

It's far from perfect, but it is quite comfy. The face button layout is unironically good. The triggers are great. But it really needed proper shoulder buttons (and not that gimped Z button shit that was mostly used as a replacement for the lack of a select button), the c-nub should've had a proper stick (although you can do this yourself), and the d-pad should've been bigger so it was actually usable for 2D games.

>> No.8168894

>>8168868
>retards who grew up with it. Even with that possibility taken into account, I still find it hard to believe.
they also have to be... melee players

>> No.8168896

>>8168868

It wasn't perfect, but it was comfy as fuck. It's one of the most comfortable Nintendo controllers I've ever had. Not quite like the Wii and Switch Pro Controllers, but kinda close.

>> No.8168901

>>8168892
It's the same as a gba dpad but the gba one feels better..
Why

>> No.8168904

>>8168868
>So tiny it's U comfortable
>Sticks don't click
>No pressure sensitive buttons
>Only one bumper
>No select button
>Right stick is a tiny nipple that is wholly impractical
>Retarded octagon shape around the sticks that prevent you from precisely turning since the stick gets dragged along the faces
Yep, I think it's shit. A Fisher price abortion.

>> No.8168908

>>8168868
>So tiny it's uncomfortable
>Sticks don't click
>No pressure sensitive buttons
>Only one bumper
>No select button
>Right stick is a tiny nipple that is wholly impractical
>Retarded octagon shape around the sticks that prevent you from precisely turning since the stick gets dragged along the faces
Yep, I think it's shit. A Fisher price abortion.

>> No.8168910

>>8168868
>NNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, PEOPLE WITH BELIEFS CONTRARY TO MY OWN, NOOOOOO

>> No.8168912

>>8168901
Because of the placement. Hold a GBA and look at how it's being held in your hand, then do the same with a GC controller. And it's not just a matter of whether the stick or d-pad get the primary position (like those stupid playstation vs xbox controller debates). If you have a d-pad that far away from your hand and that far down, it can't also be that small or it's just awkward to use.

>> No.8168914

>>8168868
I don't think its the best controller evar, it has its issues. The tiny Dpad being the major culprit. But it is one of the most comfortable controllers I've held. Just fits perfectly into my hands.

>> No.8168916

>>8168868
>NNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, PEOPLE WITH BELIEFS CONTRARY TO MY OWN, NOOOOO

>> No.8168928

"Perfect controller" is retarded because it's only good for playing gamecube games and some N64 games. But I liked the asymmetric ABXY buttons (as long as the game didn't require pressing more than one button at once), the more-modern Joystick that still had the diagonal notches and the triggers that had loose sensitivity and then a click felt interesting, but I can't say anything made great use of them.

Obviously the d-pad is so bad you can scarcely say it as a d-pad and the Z-button is awkward and the start/pause button is awkward and the C-stick thing is pointless and the grips are way too narrow. But it was unique and I appreciate that Nintendo was still trying things.

>> No.8168963

Replace the Cnub with another stick and you get there. No other gamepad is this ergonomic.

>> No.8168982
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8168982

The protoype is cool
Make the handles wider
Make the dpad bigger and shift it left
Give it two real shoulder buttons

>> No.8168983

>>8168963
>This ergonomic
Show DNA test result

>> No.8168990

>>8168868
The funny thing is that it's a pretty bad controller for melee, hence the claw grip. Maybe there's some other grip that accomplishes what the claw grip does without the suffering, I don't know.
If you don't know what I'm talking about, look it up.

>> No.8168992

>>8168982
Also make the c stick a full stick

>> No.8168993

>>8168908
Octagonal gates for the sticks are the best part of the controller's design. That and how much spring they have when you let go of them.

>> No.8168996

>>8168993
>Octagonal gates for the sticks are the best part of the controller's design
Why

>> No.8169001

>>8168996
Easy to give precise inputs. I can't imagine playing F-Zero GX without them.

>> No.8169003

>>8168996
Allows for way more precision

>> No.8169008

>>8168868
It sucks dicks in a lot of areas but it does have one of the best analog sticks out there, which is one of the most important things about a controller

>> No.8169009

>>8169001
>Easy to give precise inputs
Dude what there isn't even circumference, you're being forced to drag the stick across a straight line. Tactily it feels like shit and it fucks with your range of movement.

>> No.8169013

>>8168996
Ever seen an OOT speedrun and those crazy setups they do that rely on perfect angles and perfect timings? You can do some crazy-precise shit with those cardinal notches and a responsive spring. That's why Melee fags like it so much. Sure, you could say "why not just use a D-pad if you want precision in 8 directions?" But there are still some things only analog sticks can do. I always thought it was a happy medium and I'm sad it disappeared.

>> No.8169018

>>8168996
squares make it obnoxious to go straight forward and it takes longer to reset from a diagonal
don't get me started on circle gates

>> No.8169019
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8169019

>>8168868
If the nub bothers you, this is a really easy mod to do and also a good way to refurbish it in general as the old sticks rubber will peel off

>> No.8169020

>>8169009
This. Those gates literally remove precision.

>> No.8169026

>>8169018
>circle gates
Even on modern controllers it's still a problem
I'm never quite going direct up or direct down. Which is an issue if I'm playing a retro game that needs those directions
Why are circle gates the standard

>> No.8169029

>>8169009
you realize you don't have to slam your stick Into the gate right? You can just not do that. I have never had an issue with the gate.

>> No.8169031

>>8169009
Well la-di-dah to you

>> No.8169032

>>8169009
>>8169020
It is basically impossible to input exactly in one of eight directions without the gate. It adds way more precision.

>> No.8169034

>>8168982
why didn't they go with this b button??
The analog stick is bigger too
And the controller is wider as a whole
This seems much more ergonomic

>> No.8169036

What game requires you to choose an in-between angle on a gamecube stick?

>> No.8169037

>>8169032
Unless the game is isometric with a fixed camera what do you need that precision for? No games need exact input and heavy-inpuy based games are made to accomodate for slight inaccuracy

>> No.8169038

>>8169032
>It adds way more precision.
No, actually. It removes it. It doesn't add anything but a toddler guide. It's harder to dial in the in-betweens (read: analog movement) because there's a gate constantly forcing your stick to a more comfortable position. Circle gates are inarguably superior.

>> No.8169039

>>8169009
I just picked up my gamecube controller and hit all the in-between angles and experienced no sliding. What the fuck are you doing?

>> No.8169040

>>8168982
There's something wierdly sexual about this design.

>> No.8169041

>>8169029
99.99% of the time you are pushing the stick all the way. The utility of analogue comes from the 360 degree circumference which GameCube doesn't have
>>8169032
Nobody cares, I've never pushed forward on the analogue stick in a game and thought man it sure sucks that I'm not going straight forwards with a 0 degree bearing. This is what a dpad is for

>> No.8169042

>>8169038
>circle gates are superior
The amount of times I've been going up and to the right or down and to the left when I want to go directly up or down on a ps2 game is staggering and annoying

>> No.8169048

>>8169038
>Circle gates are inarguably superior
Anyone who has tried playing Super Monkey Ball Deluxe after playing the GCN originals knows how completely wrong this is.

>> No.8169050

>>8169041
>that's what a dpad is for
But most games don't let you use the analog stick and dpad for the same actions

>> No.8169051

>>8169041
>This is what a dpad is for
Why restrict precision strictly for dpads?

>> No.8169052

>>8169038
The removal of possibilities IS precision. It's why digital is king and analog is shitty generation loss grandpa shit. Think about it. What's more precise? "I know that this value is 0 because it's either 0 or 1 and it sure as fuck isn't 1" or "maybe this value is 0.15, but ask me again and maybe it's 0.14, I can't tell it's so overwhelming."

People say they want analog, but what they really want is occasionally nudging things to see people walk slow for a bit while clapping their hands and marveling at technology.

>> No.8169056

>>8169039
As several people have pointed out in this thread the 8 little corners are meant for "precision" in that the stick is supposed to NOT budge if you gently move it. This is not a problem on other controllers

>> No.8169061

>>8169051
>why restrict digital inputs to the digital pad
Based retard

>> No.8169062

>>8169056
But it's not a problem and in fact is better than how other controllers do it

>> No.8169068

>>8169052
Mutts yet again struggle with base 10
Are you a clumsy dysfunctional retard in real life too?
>OOOH NO IM FLAYING MY ARMS KNOCKING OVER ALL THE FINE CHINA BECAUSE THERE

>> No.8169069

the gamecube z button isn't bad it just needed two of them

>> No.8169071

>>8169061
That isn't what I asked.

>> No.8169073

>>8169052
Mutts yet again struggle with base 10
Are you a clumsy dysfunctional retard in real life too?
>OOOH NO IM FLAYING MY ARMS KNOCKING OVER ALL THE FINE CHINA BECAUSE THERE ISN'T A FIXED "DONT BE A SPASTIC" COMMAND. Are you unable to walk? Can you pick out an item from the fridge? For fuck's sake

>> No.8169074

>>8169068
All bases are base 10.

>> No.8169076

>>8169073
not involved in this but you seriously deleted your post and posted again because you thought of additional 'witty 'things to say

Lol you're deranged

>> No.8169078

>>8169062
No it isn't because there is a disparity between the movement of the stick and the movement of the muscles in your thumb

>> No.8169081

>>8169076
I deleted it because I pressed send by accident when I wasn't done you retard. You truly are a mutt if it was imperceptible that a sentence had been cut off in the middle. Are you ESL?

>> No.8169082

>>8169078
I don't care because it feels good and allows for precise control. The gamecube stick is the best in the industry

>> No.8169084

>>8168908
>>Sticks don't click
Actually based. I fucking hate games with a common action bound to L3/R3 because clicking them always feels like those things are going to snap at any fucking moment. Also holy shit don't get me started with games that bind run L3, clicking it while running forward is downright ghoulish.

>> No.8169087

>>8169081
wait you can barely control your movements and apparently flailed around so hard you somehow managed to click send but now im the mutt?

>> No.8169090

>>8169082
>it feels good and precise when my intentions are not realised
I don't think there's any help for GameCube cultists. Like fuck it was a good console with plenty of good games but these faggots base their personality around it
>>8169084
Literally never felt this phenomenon. They are very stable and satisfying to click

>> No.8169091

>>8169084
no game has ever had good clickable thumbsticks

>> No.8169102

>>8169084
Holy shit finally someone says it. I fucking hate clicking thumbsticks. I hate that it's commonly bound to crouch. It feels like shit and these sticks all just snap apart. Fucking shit man. I hate how stubborn sony is the original dual analog design. Preserving that shite dpad into ps5. The triggers feel numb because they have to be for the 'advanced trigger tech'. Start and select have only gotten worse. The useless touchpad is bolted into the already bad dualshock...fuck

>> No.8169106

>>8169090
dude I just like the controller on a totally impartial level. It feels amazing in the hand. I wish they went with the better prototype design though

>> No.8169107

>>8169087
You think you're clever cunt I'm phoneposting

>> No.8169110

>>8169107
your grave just keeps getting deeper...

>> No.8169113

As I get older...
1. Xbox duke
2. Gamecube controller
3. Saturn controller

>> No.8169114

>>8169110
Oooh noooooo the fucking sin of using a phone. I'm a badass alpha gamer, if I want to post on 4chan I am going to do it like a man and sit down on a desk just like evolution planned

>> No.8169116

>>8169114
Cool I broke his brain

>> No.8169125

>>8169114
>>8169116
now kiss.

>> No.8169162

>>8169042
That's because the game doesn't have a full 369 range of movement, the character is limited to certain directions, same as many, many Gamecube games.

>> No.8169202

It has shortcomings, but it was the first controller I remember holding that just felt good to hold. It was probably my introduction to the concept of ergonomics.
The next one where I felt that way was the Xbox 360 controller.

>> No.8169223

>>8169107
seething

>> No.8169227

>>8168868
It's perfect for comfort? I didn't grow up with it, I grew up with the 360 and Wii controllers. I find it far more comfortable than any other controller in my minor collection, ranging from 3 and 6 button Genesis, N64, and SNES, on top of the aforementioned consoles.

>> No.8169689

smells like meleefags in here

>> No.8169706

>>8169038
Circle gates were always regarded as a joke / bad idea, but got stuffed in to 'standard' due to the PS including it being form over function, to match the circular ends where the buttons and dpads lay.

>> No.8169725

>>8168868
There is no perfect controller because everything in a controller design is more or less a compromise against something else.
The GC controller is comfortable and excellent for '3D' games, which came at the cost of an atrophied DPAD, and so (along with other factors) is pretty bad for a lot of 2D genres.

>> No.8169841

>retards who grew up with it
You are 15 at the absolute oldest. Please leave.

>> No.8170383

>>8168868
It's not perfect because of the dpad and missing buttons. But it is absolute top tier for games that take advantage of the particular button layout by clever mapping. The trigger also feel great and the stick is still the best Nintendo ever made.

>> No.8170410

i wouldnt call it perfect by any stretch, but it definitely has one of the better analog sticks imo
people bitch that there werent two of them, but no GC games actually needed twin sticks so idk wtf theyre on about

>> No.8170519

>>8169841
Actually they'd be 30

>> No.8170956

>>8168901
Your thumb has to travel a greater distance to contact the d-pad because of the grip

>> No.8171343

>>8169841
I'm 32, I didn't grow up with it and I only used it a few times when I was like 16 in high school and the guys wanted to play Soul Caliber but I didn't really get it back then.
I definitely get it now, it fits great in my small hands and I love the triggers, playing Sunshine is great with it cause before I'd use an xbox controller on emu.
Better bumpers and twin sticks would've been better but you can find the Wii version or mod it for that.

>> No.8171357

>>8168868
The gamecube controllet was mostly fine until I tried tony hawk and ssx. It dawned on me how many ps2 and xbox games use toggle buttons to allow you to do moves so suddenly when the game asks you to press b+y to do a move it's a remarkably uncomfortable experience. This reflects how limited your options are too. The cube controller is truly awful and inflexible.

>> No.8171376

>>8168868
>no wireless rechargeable version
>theyre all wired or require batteries

>> No.8171387

>>8169706
>Circle gates were always regarded as a joke / bad idea,
Only by idiots who do not know what they are talking about. You're free to try and explain why, but nobody has been able to explain why limiting your range is a good thing.

>> No.8171527

>>8169113
Yeah it really show the dementia is starting to settle in.

>> No.8171539

>>8171387
>idiots who do not know what they are talking about
pot, kettle
if you have the stick all the way in a direction, you are probably running and you want to comfortably keep it there. locking the stick in the corner of the gate lets you do that. if you need to make complex subtle movements, you don't jam the stick all the way and keep it there. therefore the gate has no effect.
>durr what if i want both
the oct gate is still better because knowing exactly where 0, 45, 90 etc are is useful for fine tuning
there is no situation where a circle gate is better. cease playing devil's advocate for controllers on a singaporean shadow dancing board

>> No.8171541

running on playstation feels so imprecise because it's the worst of both worlds where the analog stick is too low and it's a circle gate

>> No.8171553

>>8171541
I'm not sure why playstation wastes the manufacturing on including handles for their controllers. Might as well be a snes with analog sticks for how shit they feel

>> No.8171929

>>8171387
you know any of that shit you just said might make some sense were it not for the fact that the GC controller registers max analog input prior to it being pushed fully into the gate same with literally any first-party analog stick controller i can think of, going back to N64 even

so yea
having a gate of any sort doesnt impede your range and granularity of control, while having an octagonal gate does the above while also allowing you to quickly and easily lock into 8 separate directions of motion

>> No.8172030

>>8168868
There's a progression of seeing this controller.

>oh no the handles are narrow and deep, that can't be right!
^ you are here
When you reach this
>wait, these handles actually flawlessly fit a hand and are clearly well-researched ergonomics, why did I stupidly think total roundness equated to hand-shaped to begin with?
You'll start to like it, then after you reach
>this analog has zero deadzone and minimal amount of resistance compared to competitor pads which either have large deadzones or turbo resistance, so I experience subtle analog movement in a completely different way when I use it
You'll start to prefer it to other things.

Hope this helped.

>> No.8172071

>>8168908
>Sticks don't click
the virgin gamecube vs. the chad Neo Geo CD. cliclkcclkliclkmikclckccllicklcikclkciklclkclick

>> No.8172075

>>8172071
The neo geo cd falls before the tonal.might of a gamecube controller. You can hear someone playing gamecube from across a house

>> No.8172436

>>8171343
>it fits great in my small hands
So this is the disposition to be a Nintendie, lol.

>> No.8172452

>>8171539
When have you ever needed to go straight forwards with a 0 degree bearing? There's been many more times where I wanted to to subtly change my direction than NEED to go straight forwards. This is especially important in shooting games where camera control is impossible on the Cube not just because of the fucked up C-nipple. Again all this muh precision shit about a fixed 45 degrees and 90 degrees, so instead of an analogue stick what we effectively have is another d-pad

>> No.8172478

>>8169084
>clicking it while running forward is downright ghoulish.
Fucking this, I've been saying this forever but you're my first echo back.

>> No.8172512

>>8172478
I have gorilla thumbs and I do this all the time. Makes some games nigh unplayable because they have crouch or something mapped to it

>> No.8172524

>>8172452
every playstation game I'm always running down to the left or up to the right. Constantly have to make tons of micro corrections on playstation

>> No.8173314

>>8172436
>Nintendie
Nah, I was a SEGA kid since the 90s and only ever played my brother's NES occasionally. I stuck with Playstation until I got a 'puter. I'm just a small person, not my fault smaller controllers fit better... I tried a duke once and it was way too big to use.

>> No.8173335

>>8168868
It's fine. Not great not terrible.

>> No.8173487

>>8168868
The controller with melee is one of the wonders of the modern world. It's simply ..perfect

>> No.8173932

>>8173487
i thought the unwashed melee hordes removed the L/R springs?

>> No.8173976
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8173976

>>8172524
This has nothing to do with his statement.
>>8171539
There is no room for slight angular correction, having a forced angled resistance toward one of the gate points creates an inherent inaccuracy. This was one of the faults I noticed in particular while playing Mario Sunshine.
>>8171929
>you know any of that shit you just said might make some sense
You're insane.
>were it not for the fact that the GC controller registers max analog input
This is software dependent. Disassembling the controller for straight access to the stick module can show you the true limit of the sticks range.
>having a gate of any sort doesnt impede your range and granularity of control
This is once again handled in software, every game is different and adding rigidity to fine degree movement is literally impeding your range and granularity. That's by design, own it. Denial is a slimy and disgusting move when it's literally a fucking octagon.
>easily lock into 8 separate directions of motion
This isn't difficult and not necessarily desired, analog movement encourages developers to create things in a more analog space. You want full range.

So far nobody has been able to prove the cube stick as a superior design. It's just fanboyism pretending it's implicit while making shit up to fill the air.

>> No.8174008

I never had any trouble with it

>> No.8174036

>>8173976
>You're insane.
and youre insufferable
>This is software dependent.
lol yea
all GC games were like that
shocking, right? its almost like they were designed for the GC or something
>This isn't difficult and not necessarily desired
one, on a circle gate, its nigh impossible to accurately get diagonal//cardinal directions without some degree of adjustment
and two, for GC-era 3D games it was absolutely crucial
go play super monkey ball on an xbawks tree fiddy controller if you dont believe me
>You want full range.
and again, you have it, as no devs were dense enough to make the full analog input require pushing into the gate

nobodys gonna change your mind on anything as youre just a pedantic argumentative twat
im just telling you youre wrong

>> No.8174039

>>8168868
The only bad part of the controller is the shitty mushy GBA d-pad. Everything else is pretty much perfecty. Could probably use an extra Z button on the other side maybe.

>> No.8174091

>>8174036
>and youre insufferable
Funny coming from a nintendo fanboy.
>its almost like they were designed for the GC or something
You'd hope so.
>its nigh impossible to accurately get diagonal//cardinal directions without some degree of adjustment
Nope. You may have a motor function disability.
>and two, for GC-era 3D games it was absolutely crucial
Not really. This is the generation that brought us SSX. Another game that struggles on the cube controller.
>and again, you have it
In a smaller space, giving the user less precision.
>nobodys gonna change your mind
I asked why circle gates were regarded as a joke, the answer I got was you struggle with pointing a stick forward and GC era 3D games weren't designed for it (bullshit.) The fanboyism people have over a controller is obscene.

>> No.8174285

>>8174091
>This is the generation that brought us SSX
wow a multiplat that was ported over to GC wasnt designed for GC specifically
shocking
nice strawman

>In a smaller space, giving the user less precision.
lol yea everyone loves having to move analog sticks all the way to each extreme in order to register a full input
face it dude, no first-party stick, nor competent piece of software, has ever been designed this way BECAUSE its cumbersome and imprecise

>muh fanboy
lmao i grew up using the dualshock. thats WHY i know its less than ideal for quickly inputting cardinal directions.
youre just some /v/-tier fag who wants to get in a sissy slapfight over bullshit you dont even care about
the GC analog stick is highly regarded because its well designed, and its as simple as that

if you wanna piss on the dpad, the gimped Z-button, the overall size of the controller, the worthless c-stick, all those are perfectly valid criticisms, and ones id agree with wholeheartedly
the fact is that the GC analog stick was, imo and many others, and still is, one of the better analog sticks that consoles ever got
quite durable too, as many of them are just as snappy as they were outta the box

the larger issue here is that this entire generation of consoles shouldve never been allowed on this board to begin with because it brought it in arrogant niggers such as yourselves in droves which was the main argument against allowing anything past DC in the first place
this was hardly an issue before, unfortunately m_ds made the decision for us

>> No.8174334

>>8174285
>nice strawman
It and THPS are great at demonstrating the failures of the face button layout. Game is a shit show.
>quite durable too, as many of them are just as snappy as they were outta the box
This is really funny to me. They are usually in the worst condition of all sticks that generation.

>> No.8174354

>>8174334
>They are usually in the worst condition of all sticks that generation.
compared to xbox and PS2 controllers?
now i know youre just baiting

>> No.8174475

>>8173976
>sloppy imprecise circular crap good
>precise eight way input bad

>> No.8174496

>>8168996
Because most of the time, even with analogue controls, you probably want a precise direction like straight forward. It's really annoying in certain games with a completely round stick gate where it's easy to slide left and right when you just want to walk forward and ONLY forward.

>> No.8174517

>>8168868
I think maybe it isn't horrible. Would it be a huge leap if I said that maybe a lot of GC games were made around the pad? Too dumb to properly articulate what I actually mean.

>> No.8174562

>>8174334
>They are usually in the worst condition of all sticks that generation
PS2 analog sticks are literally melting and the Xbox analog sticks become smooth on top with just normal use.

>> No.8174576

>>8168894
I play melee and I wouldn't play it with any other controller...
but I do think the controller is fucked and definitely not the "perfect controlller"

>> No.8174580

>>8174576
also
P.S. many top melee players have fucked up their hands, just saying

>> No.8174630

>non clucky sticks after PS1 had them
>Non pressure sensitive buttons
Awesome I hate both those things

>> No.8174640

>>8174630
I really appreciate the clacky feel that the gamecube buttons have. Pretty much every modern controller I've tried since then has had buttons that always feel mushy.

>> No.8174641

>>8168892
Agree on the D-pad. It's what knocks it down from amazing to just good

>> No.8174653

>>8174641
I honestly wouldn't even care that much if it weren't for the gameboy player. The d-pad works well enough for native GC games where the stick is the primary input and the d-pad is just used for selection weapons or whatever. But it's downright unusable with GBP.

At least you can use a GC-GBA link cable and use a real gameboy as the controller though.

>> No.8174720

>>8168868
Only Melee players would say that garbage is perfect.

>> No.8174724

What's with the big retard-friendly buttons?

>> No.8174742

>>8174562
It might surprise you to hear but the cap is not the stick. There's an entire mechanism underneath there and the gamecube ones are usually in the worst condition. It may be who is using them most today but it has become difficult to find healthy sticks.

>> No.8175858

>>8168868
one of the worst dpads ever, it's unbelievably useless.
everything else is great though, very ergonomic and comfy

>> No.8175869

>>8174724
it's designed for toddlers

>> No.8176812

>>8168868
This thing was goddamned mess. I'm not a Smash faggot, so I never developed any kind of obsession with this controller.

>> No.8176818

It was the most bizarre and toy-like looking thing I'd ever seen when it was unveiled. And that was before it had the red B button.
In comparison when I saw the Ultra 64 controller I thought it looked like a marvel of cutting edge technology.

>> No.8176820

>>8168868
Its better than the duke and dreamcast controller but worse than dual shock. Anyone calling it perfect has no clue.

>> No.8176834

>>8168868
playing sports games with this was a fucking nightmare.

>> No.8176861

>>8176834
Why? It was comfortable and had enough buttons. Yes it's layout was unorthodox but it still worked.

>>
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