/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.8149985]

What happened with this thing ? Why did it turn out so bad? Why did KI never come to my Ultra 64? Was the name change Nintendo's way if admitting that it wasn't 'ultra' and not a direct upgrade from SNES?
How would you fix the N64? How much would fixes cost?
Why did Sega and Nintendo concede the entire industry to Sony?

[Anonymous No.8149993]

Why did they never port Horace and the Spiders?

[Anonymous No.8149994]

>>8149985
Make it CD-based instead of cartridge-based. That literally fixes everything.

[Anonymous No.8150004]

>>8149994
It literally doesn't and would likely break more than it fixes. Do you know anything about the hardware?

[Anonymous No.8150008]

>>8149994
>4mb rambus shared ram and no sound chip on a cd based console
Jesus christ man

[Anonymous No.8150009]

>>8150004
no one outside of those who should be shoahed cares about n64

[Anonymous No.8150026]

>>8150009
I was a 3dO kid, am I cool?my dad got it because he hated chinks

[Anonymous No.8150029]

>>8149985
>64dd magnetic discs to start
>8mb ram to start
I just saved Nintendo

[Anonymous No.8150249]

>>8149993
What?

[Anonymous No.8150272]

>>8150008
>no sound chip on a cd based console
ever heard of red book audio ?

[Anonymous No.8150276]

>>8150026
so fucking expensive
we got the 3do from a yardsale
i loved total eclipse and roadrash as a kid

the n64 came later but we could only play in the livingroom had to "share" it

[Anonymous No.8150308]

>>8150276
>3do and n64
Stupid family. Saturn was better. Playstation was better

[Anonymous No.8150315]

>>8150272
>reddit book audio

[Anonymous No.8150320]

>>8150308
>Saturn was better
Lol

[Anonymous No.8150502]

>>8149985
>all the fighting games suck
>all the role-playing games suck
>all the strategy games are bad PC ports
>all the platformers are shitty sandbox collectathons
>all the shooters are shitty FPSs, no shmups or gun games

Why is the N64 considered a good system, again?

[Anonymous No.8150507]

There's already an N64 hate thread for you nigger retards to seethe in.

[Anonymous No.8150515]

>>8150502
>RPGs
>fighting games
>shmups
The most basic copypaste genres. N64 was for new 3D experiences.

[Anonymous No.8150527]

>>8149985
Why didn't it get games from the best selling non-Nintendo franchises on the SNES (Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Street Fighter, DBZ, etc)?

[Anonymous No.8150539]

>>8150502
Zelda, Mario, the list goes on...

[Anonymous No.8150541]

>>8150527
Because the jews at Sony stole the industry

[Anonymous No.8150548]

>>8150502
>Why is the N64 considered a good system, again?
Because a nintendo64 magazine said so.

[Anonymous No.8150549]

>>8150541
>obscenely rich company bullies it's way into video game industry and buys up all the talent while engaging in corporate espionage and shady tactics
>Proceeds to ruin it as soon as they become dominant
I don't know why anyone worships Don't

[Anonymous No.8150550]

>>8150502
a-a-at least it has good racing games.....

[Anonymous No.8150552]

>>8150548
>thumbnail of a /v/ consolewar wojak
Can it get more cancerous?

[Anonymous No.8150556]

>>8150029
Would the 64DD have solved literally any problem besides low-capacity of carts at launch?
Biggest difference between PS1 and N64 is that publishing games for N64 was tens of times more expensive than PS1. CDs cost pennies to make and even with licensee fees a single PS1 game cost a couple bucks per disc where as they would have to spend like 20 bucks per cart on N64 at minimum.

[Anonymous No.8150562]

>>8150556
Capacity is fixed and cost is fixed.itd still be more expensive than ps1 cds but with the ram and additional capacity of a disc it would give devs more of an argument to develop for it especially if they wanted to push big 3d titles

[Anonymous No.8150592]

>>8149985
The difficult to develop for strange architecture and third party restrictions are the main things that needed to be changed.

[Anonymous No.8150608]

>Make any console war topic at all
>People respond like Lemmings every single time
Why is this board so easy to troll now? It's literally the same bait over and over and it always works.

[Anonymous No.8150687]

>>8149985
>Gunpei yokoi philosophy of doing innovative things with proven technology
>Throw it all out the window for n64 and gamecube eras

Why? Gunpei was still alive too and working at nintendo when n64 was being made
What happened? Is it miyamotos fault?
Gunpei philosophy would have lead to some kind of CD based SNES 2 that might have analog control or something but more or less be about simple 2d titles

[Anonymous No.8150691]

>>8150608
There's nothing console war about this thread. It's like a 'how can saturn win' thread.

[Anonymous No.8150704]

>>8150687
>What happened?
Virtual Boy. Gunpei tried to skip his punishment demotion by Yamauchi by leaving and making the WonderSwan. We all know what happened next.

[Anonymous No.8150715]

>>8149985
third party devs didn't want to debase themselves by making cartridge games when the sexy new CD hardware existed
you look at the good n64 games and it's either directly by nintendo or by rare or HAL or some shit meaning it's by nintendo. they're genre defining masterpieces but they just showed the psx devs what to copy

[Anonymous No.8150723]

>>8150704
Wonderswan was based. And nintendo forced the virtu boy out. Gunpei is innocent. Is nintendo yakuza now

[Anonymous No.8150730]

>>8150715
Can't wait for a Sony fanboy to contest this

[Anonymous No.8150763]

>>8150723
>Is nintendo yakuza
they know how to make it look like an accident...

[Anonymous No.8150779]

>>8149985
N64 needs to be given a second life, and I'm a PS1 guy

[Anonymous No.8150780]

>>8150763
Should I buy some hanafuda cards

[Anonymous No.8150784]

>>8150779
nothing is going to be given a second life and people only care about playstation for the past 20 years.

[Anonymous No.8150793]

>>8150779
Has there been any update on this since that webm?

[Anonymous No.8150805]

>>8150539
>Zelda, Mario, the list goes on...
no you faggot those are the only two games you got

[Anonymous No.8150814]

>>8150515
"New 3D experiences" does not mean they're automatically good. Those copypaste genres have aged a billion times better than pretty much any 3D game on the Nintendo 64.

[Anonymous No.8150820]

>>8150805
thatsthejoke.webp

[Anonymous No.8150831]

>>8150814
No they haven't. Fighters, shmups, and beat em ups are dead, nobody likes your genres. Only try hards pretend to care about them.

[Anonymous No.8150865]

>>8150831
>Fighters
Melty Blood is still booming.
>shmups
Touhou is still booming.
>beat em ups
Streets of Rage is still booming.
>Only try hards pretend to care about them.
Ok 3Dbabby, stay filtered by real games, lmao.

[Anonymous No.8150878]

>>8150865
Nobody cares about those games, your perception of popularity is off.

[Anonymous No.8150879]

>>8150515
people on the playstation and saturn were seeing the fighter genre revolutionized in 3d
on the n64? there's -ugh- super smash bros.

[Anonymous No.8150882]

>>8150879
>there's -ugh- super smash bros.
You mean a game more innovative and original than any fighting game on the other two platforms?

[Anonymous No.8150885]

>>8150879
there's like 20 fighters on the n64 (20 too many), some of them multiplats with the same systems you're praising

[Anonymous No.8150886]

>>8150865
wouldn't exactly call sor4 a boom and I'm a sor fan. That game was ass

[Anonymous No.8150905]

>>8150882
Smash is neither innovative nor original, retard. Try playing more games than just Nintrash.

[Anonymous No.8150909]

>>8150820
>webp
horrible format

[Anonymous No.8150912]

>>8150885
>there's like 20 fighters on the n64 (20 too many),
and how many actually had/has an active player base on the level of, say, Capcom or SNK or Sega or Namco.

right, none of them, because they're all shit.

[Anonymous No.8150914]

>>8150905
The only thing close is an obscure arcade game nobody played that doesn't even feature the core mechanics of Smash Bros. Just a totally failed ACKSHULLY moment everytime some sperg brings up The Outfoxies like this.

[Anonymous No.8150930]

>>8150912
Because fighting games are boring

[Anonymous No.8150932]

>>8150502
>>all the fighting games suck
but muh smash
>>all the role-playing games suck
but muh paper mario
>>all the strategy games are bad PC ports
but muh doshin the giant
>>all the platformers are shitty sandbox collectathons
but muh yoshi's story
>>all the shooters are shitty FPSs, no shmups or gun games
but muh starfox

[Anonymous No.8150942]

>>8150779
Why would a developer waste his time when he could get better, smoother results from one of the two technically superior alternatives that generation?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqGQfCACK9I

[Anonymous No.8150960]

>>8150932
Those are good games.

[Anonymous No.8150962]

>>8150502
literally just that OOT, MM and Mario 64 were THAT good it redeemed the entire console.
Exactly whats happening with the switch, BOTW is just that good it makes getting one worth it.

[Anonymous No.8150969]

>>8150962
I don't like mario 64 or bite to be honest. But I do agree that the zelda's make the entire console worth it. Zelda's make me take n64 over the psx. Saturn and n64 are all you need

[Anonymous No.8150976]

>>8150960
Baby games for baby gamers such as yourself.

[Anonymous No.8150980]

>>8150976
ok

[Anonymous No.8150983]

>>8150980
grow up and move out of mummy's basement anytime

[Anonymous No.8150992]

>>8150983
no

[Anonymous No.8151025]

>>8150976
Poser

[Anonymous No.8151231]

>>8149985
Fixing the N64 is an extremely easy task, in fact you don't even need a budget larger $200 to fix it.
Just buy a Playstation

[Anonymous No.8151245]

>>8149993
Speccy had something that no machine could possibly replicate from then on no matter how much tech they pumped into their putrid guts.
Soul.
It's why not a single Speccy classic got ported. Even modern high end supercomputers would sputter and wheeze trying to boot up Knight Lore.

[Anonymous No.8151628]

>>8150008
I think other changes to support a CD format were implied

[Anonymous No.8152072]

>>8150608
It's always been like this, which makes me think most posters here truly are out of touch boomers

[Anonymous No.8152272]

>>8150687
Nintendo shit

[Anonymous No.8152340]

My main games were the usuals. Mario 64, Mario Kart, Mario Party 1 and 2, Smash Bros, and Goldeneye. I also played a lot of NFL Blitz and honestly Mortal Kombat 4 with the in-game engine endings. I loved the thing honestly and played it more than my PlayStation. However, in the grand scheme of things, the cartridge ruined the N64. They lost FF7 because of it, which was the game that made certain Sony wasn't going anywhere for that gen.

>Why did Sega and Nintendo concede the entire industry to Sony?
SEGA thought games could beat megacorporation hype and marketing machines. They died. Nintendo decided not to die trying to compete with them (and Microsoft) directly so they went their own way.

[Anonymous No.8152725]

>>8149994
>Sony, who knows you have seen the detailed design specifications for their own CD-using game hardware because it was a pitch they literally made to you that fell through and is running a non-batshit architecture unlike Saturn, then sues you for patent infringement. 1 singular judge who knows virtually nothing about this sees that they are similar enough and says you have to hand over every cent of profit on it to them, and your company now dies
Don't believe marketing babble. Nintendo were backed into a corner and the only thing they could release that gen with no risk of sudden company death to litigation was something wildly different so that there was no chance of this shit happening to them.

[Anonymous No.8152750]

>>8152725
That doesn't make any fucking sense. You're drunk.
Nintendo obviously stuck with cartridges to avoid piracy.

[Anonymous No.8153040]

>>8152750
Actually it was to lower cost

[Anonymous No.8154201]

>>8150942
wasn't the saturn a bitch to develop on or am i confusing it with something else.

[Anonymous No.8154218]

>>8154201
the saturn was but then so were a lot of things

[Anonymous No.8154519]

>>8150008
>no sound chip
That's what the beefy rsp coprocessor was for.

[Anonymous No.8154539]

>>8154519
it's better to have a dedicated chip for that sort of thing desu

[Anonymous No.8154552]

>>8154519
>lets waste precious computing power to mix some audio.
Good plan there chief.. Let's also limit audio output to 22.5Khz so that we don't turn out game into a slideshow because processing audio is THAT taxing on the system.

[Anonymous No.8155026]

>>8154552
N64 sucks

[Anonymous No.8155071]

>>8149985
the ultra 64 is the arcade board made by nintendo and yes killer instinct 1 and 2 came out in that one so what your point.
do your homework before posting such retarded threads mate.
most of the stupids from magazines saw ultra 64 made by nintendo so is nintendo ultra 64 but then they had to correct themselves but in a minor part of the magazine leaving all the misunderstandings on the air without even clarifying the ultra 64 was a freaking arcade

[Anonymous No.8156225]

>>8150779
whats this

[Anonymous No.8156348]

>>8149985
N64 was the 5th gen console for people who had friends

[Anonymous No.8156391]

>>8156225
GAME 64

[Anonymous No.8156413]

>>8149985
Game Boy Color (its handheld partner) has better games. If I only include black cartridge and transparent games

[Anonymous No.8156458]

>>8155071
Killer instinct did not come out

[Anonymous No.8156464]

>>8150308
Saturn and playstation both sucked tho

[Anonymous No.8156473]

>>8156458
KI gold did

[Anonymous No.8156538]

>>8155071
From what I can find reading online the KI arcade hardware uses a similar but not the same CPU as N64. And the file formats used are the same. That's where the similarities end.
Sound is provided by a custom Midway solution used in games like Mortal Kombat 3. Graphics are stored on a hard drive with only program code and sound on ROM. Completely different memory architecture.
I couldn't find much info on the graphics chip besides it using an Altera CPLD. Apparently this is the only bit on the board with any Nintendo influence and even that is questionable, the rest is all Midway.

[Anonymous No.8156576]

>Lack of 3D fighting games

This was completely inexcusable. Tekken and Virtua Fighter were huge hits and launched the 3D fighting craze. Meanwhile the N64 really only had Smash and Mortal Kombat 4 with a few other trash games like War Gods. Killer Instinct was looking positively ancient by the time it was released for the N64.

They should have had Dead or Alive, Tekken 1-2-3, Street Fighter EX, Rival Schools, etc. All of these games are fully 3D and could easily be handled at 60fps on the N64. N64 would have had issues with 2D sure, but there's no reason they couldn't have made the push for 3D fighters.

[Anonymous No.8156590]

>>8156576
you act like any of these are nintendo's decision to make

[Anonymous No.8156595]

>>8156576
>Tekken 1-2-3, Street Fighter EX, Rival Schools
All of those ran on souped-up PS1 hardware in the arcades though. With the PS1 ports it was just a matter of downgrading the graphics and shoving the disc full of extra modes and cutscenes.
>Dead or Alive
Same hardware as Daytona USA with a heavily downgraded later re-release on a PS1-based system. I can't even begin to imagine what it would have looked like on the N64.

[Anonymous No.8156645]

>>8156590
>>8156595
Nintendo could have made it more attractive to them and assisted the porting process. They could have made use of the 4 ports for tournament and 4 player modes as well.

[Anonymous No.8156821]

>>8156645
Lots of companies were butthurt with Nintendo during the 64 era. Capcom basically dropped all support other than some very late ports.

Small cart space + expensive dev costs + cart costs + high license fee + small user base made companies not even consider N64 for their games that got brought to ps1 and Saturn

[Anonymous No.8156829]

>>8156576
Fighting games are boring, everybody stopped playing that shit by then except for the most insufferable among us

[Anonymous No.8157967]

>>8150502
>all the fighting games suck
Nobody gave two shits about competitive viablilty in the 90s.
>all the role-playing games suck
true
>all the strategy games are bad PC ports
git gud mustardcuck
>all the platformers are shitty sandbox collectathons
Mario 64 was just that good.
>all the shooters are shitty FPSs, no shmups or gun games
Nobody played those after Doom came out.

>Why is the N64 considered a good system, again?
Because id and Midway were far and away the best Western action/arcade developers of the 90s and Nintendo respected them accordingly.

Every single rumor about Nintendo hating Western games, despite all evidence to the contrary, comes from the fact that Jeremy San Nintendo cancelled Star Fox 2 when it was 95% complete because of the Doom port.

[Anonymous No.8157970]

>>8157967
Listen dickhead tell me where you are and I'll come around kick the shit outta ya.

[Anonymous No.8157982]

>>8156595
DOA would look like trash, very low poly, dull colors and dark, muddy, all those addictive blending effects missing, dark lighting, not worth it. N64 had to look closer to the Ultra 64 arcade board.

[Anonymous No.8157995]

>>8157970
ya seethin

[Anonymous No.8158007]

>>8150691
>'how can saturn win'
By not announcing then releasing the console on the same day before even telling developers/publishers about it.
That alone killed it more than anything else.

[Anonymous No.8158014]

>>8157982
Imagine DOA or Tekken in this engine with these graphics.

[Anonymous No.8158034]

>How would you fix the N64?
CD Drive.

Boom—it now surpasses the Playstation in every respect.

[Anonymous No.8158045]

>>8149985
>How would you fix the N64?
CD Drive.

Boom—it now surpasses the Playstation in every respect.

[Anonymous No.8158071]

>>8158045
Except for framerate, texture quality, additive blending...

[Anonymous No.8158395]

>>8149985
>Was the name change Nintendo's way if admitting that it wasn't 'ultra' and not a direct upgrade from SNES?
that's probably the most retarded way anyone has ever directly stated they only speak English and assume the entire planet does too

[Anonymous No.8158398]

>>8158395
I speak three languages

[Anonymous No.8158451]

>>8149985
Better 3D environments than PS by far and way longer rendering distance. Ocarina could never be put on PS. It was better hardware except...
>Hard to develop on
>Bad storage

Although no load time was sweet. Luckily Nintendo is the best dev by far and their games alone (Smash, Karty, Mario Party, Zelda, Mario, Star Fox) are worth buying their own hardware just to use. No other dev could get away with it.

James Bond and Perfect Dark too.

[Anonymous No.8158493]

>>8158451
Look how muddy and gray the pic is, it needed all those blending effects the PS could do, it would make the graphics appear better and help mask the faults.

[Anonymous No.8158526]

>>8158493
Looks so much better. Plus, the framerate would be wholly doubled on the PSX. What was Nintendo thinking?

[Anonymous No.8158539]

>>8158451
>Ocarina could never be put on PS.
Sure it could. Ocarina of Time only runs at 20fps with a very aggressive LoD system. There's no real reason PS1 couldn't handle that.

[Anonymous No.8158575]

>>8158539
There is no way Ocarina would work on a Playstation. The closest thing is Soul Reaver which looks and runs like this with smaller environments and a much lower draw distance. Don't even think about linking to that unfinished homebrew techdemo of a Link model walking around a test environment.

[Anonymous No.8158586]

>>8158493
>even the UI has better lighting
Jesus Christ.

[Anonymous No.8158592]

Face it, the only reason kids care about the N64 is nostalgia goggles. Mario 64 was shit, the Zelda games were shit, Castlevania was shit, it was all shit. To be fair, gaming everywhere else was going to shit as well but for fuck's sake, the N64 has no redeeming qualities. It even has the worst fucking controller ever conceived.

[Anonymous No.8158601]

>>8158493
this actually looks nice

>>8158575
unfinished game, still runs above ocarina's 20fps

[Anonymous No.8158606]

>>8158601
>still runs above ocarina's 20fps
Rarely.

[Anonymous No.8158613]

>>8158575
Didn't this game have to support 2 simultaneous worlds? Pretty impressive.

[Anonymous No.8158617]

>>8156391
Nothing on google

[Anonymous No.8158629]

>>8158493
You could just crank the saturation up on your TV if you really want that SweetFX look so bad.

[Anonymous No.8158634]

>>8158629
mate, you know as well as I do that these people only emulate with increased internal resolution

[Anonymous No.8158646]

the n64 hateboner is totally ridiculous. just comes across as kids being needlessly defiant

[Anonymous No.8158668]

>>8158646
/v/ "muh s*ytendo" shit is the main influence here

[Anonymous No.8158692]

>>8150272
Yeah and everyone who has heard of it knows full well that you did nothing to counter is argument and he's still correct. Any other stupid suggestions?

[Anonymous No.8158695]

>>8158668
I blame it on zoomies watching their favorite e-celebs shit talk the N64 through compressed jewtube videos on their walmart flat panels

[Anonymous No.8158810]

>>8150272
You do realize that a lot of games on both the Saturn and PS1 don't use red-book audio right?

[Anonymous No.8158856]

Spyro and Ape Escape probably has the best draw distance on the PS1, and even then it has comparatively small open areas, using tricks like loading everything and unloading everything. This probably gives you a sense of how PS1 Ocarina of Time would look.

[Anonymous No.8158889]

>>8158856
Closest gameplay was would be Kingsley's Adventure, which clearly took inspiration from Ocarina. But you can see how limited the draw distance is in open fields. It's an okay if a bit boring game.

[Anonymous No.8158939]

>>8158856
You realize that Ocarina of Time uses a ton of tricks too right? It uses an aggressive LoD system where things in the distance get replaced with 2D objects as well as quite a bit of fog. Hyrule Field is carefully designed to make it so you can never see too much of it at once as well. There's no technical reason that couldn't be done on the PS1.

Homebrew devs have been getting pretty decent draw distances on PS1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvuugcLDtv4

As you can see the area is actually pretty large with a high draw distance. And for what it's worth, here it is running on Saturn using only 1 CPU:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpkyF7X4O3s

So again, there's nothing really stopping you from making an area large like Hyrule Field in Ocarina of Time on the PS1, or even the Saturn. You'd just need a good LoD system and to design the area in a similar fashion to prevent the player from seeing too much at once. Hell on Saturn you could even cheat a bit and use VDP2 planes to handle quite a bit of the area.

[Anonymous No.8158942]

>>8158939
>It uses an aggressive LoD system where things in the distance get replaced with 2D objects as well as quite a bit of fog
Just straight up lying.

[Anonymous No.8158947]

>>8158942
Go look at it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nsqsa45DG8

You can literally see trees and other entities popping into existence, certain far off objects becoming 2D sprites, as well as a healthy amount of fog to hide the transitions. On top of it it barely hits 20fps.

[Anonymous No.8158952]

>>8158947
It clearly renders significantly more detail for further distances than those demos.

[Anonymous No.8158978]

>>8158952
>Homebrew demo by 1 person has less detail than a Nintendo game made with an entire team dedicated to just creating the 3D models.
What an amazing observation you made. But you're ignoring the technical details here. Draw distance wise you can clearly see from the demo that having a large draw distance isn't a problem for the PS1. You're also ignoring the technical details polygon budget per frame. The PS1 version of that demo runs at a significantly higher frame rate than Ocarina of Time. Lower the frame rate to match Ocarina of Time and you'll probably free up enough time to render more polygons. And again, Ocarina of Time is using fog to hid the lower detail models. You could easily implement that on PS1 as well.

There's really no technical reason the PS1 couldn't pull off something like Hyrule Field in Ocraina of Time. It may not look as pretty due to the lack of Perspective Correct Rendering, texture filtering, and other more modern GPU features the N64 has, but it could definitely pull off creating an area of a similar scale.

[Anonymous No.8158984]

>>8158978
>There's really no technical reason the PS1 couldn't pull off something like Hyrule Field in Ocraina of Time
No matter how many times you say it, it'll never be true.

[Anonymous No.8158985]

>>8158984
you're just a nintendrone. the psx version would run at the same compromised or performance as oot- or better
Nintendo and sega should just be software on sony machine

[Anonymous No.8159000]

>>8158613
Yeah Soul Reaver was a real technical marvel. No loading screens either.

[Anonymous No.8159003]

>>8158939
You think that Spyro isn't extremely aggressive with its LoD too? Hell it pioneered the technique in a lot of ways.
Both OoT and Spyro have good LoD, it's good because you don't really notice.

[Anonymous No.8159009]

>>8158984
Can you specify an actual technical reason why the PS1 wouldn't be able to draw something like Hyrule Field? The entire polygon count for Hyrule Field is somewhere around 2500. You'll also never see the whole thing in one frame. At most you'll see maybe 1/3 of it. So we're talking maybe about 800 polygons per frame with about another 800 for Link and enemies. So let's round up to about 2000 polygons per frame. At 20 frames per second that would be about 40,000 polygons per second required to draw that area. PS1 can easily hit that, even Saturn can.

Now to make it look acceptable on PS1 and Saturn, you'll need to subdivide polygons as they get closer to the camera to avoid texture warping. N64 doesn't have this problem. That said, you still have more than enough polygon budget available on the PS1 to pull that off, especially at 20fps. Saturn might be a bit tougher, but then you could always leverage VDP2 to draw planes for you to fill in some of the gaps. And that's not even considering that Ocarina of Time has frame rate dips while running around Hyrule Field. So it's not even maintaining 20fps.

[Anonymous No.8159013]

>>8159009
>PS1 can easily hit that, even Saturn can
Then why haven't they?

[Anonymous No.8159036]

>>8159013
Lots of PS1 and Saturn games hit or surpass 40,000 polygons per second. The launch version of Daytona USA I think was mentioned to be hitting around or over that amount. Now with that game a lot of the polygon budget is being dumped into drawing 20+ cars at once along with quite a bit of trackside detail. For a 3D adventure game you would probably be using those polygons to draw more scenery.

Honestly most 3D Fighters on the Saturn and PS1 are probably surpassing that. It wouldn't take much, just draw 2 400 polygon models at 60fps and you'd exceed 40,000 polygons per second.

[Anonymous No.8159037]

>>8159036
I meant rendering something like Hyrule Field.

[Anonymous No.8159054]

>>8159037
And I was referring to the technical reasons for whether or not the systems could render it and pull something similar off. The fact remains it's well within the capabilities of both systems. The lack of it being on either system has more to do with artistic choices and financial scope limits of the developers (PS1), or the console being dead by the time Ocarina of Time came out (Saturn).

So again I ask you, what technical limitation of the PS1 makes you think it couldn't render something like Hyrule Field?

[Anonymous No.8159056]

>>8159054
>what technical limitation of the PS1 makes you think it couldn't render something like Hyrule Field?
The fact that no game ever released for the platform has anything like it.

[Anonymous No.8159060]

>>8159056
In other words you can't cite a technical limitation for why the PS1 wouldn't be able to do it.

[Anonymous No.8159062]

>>8159060
You can post all the what if theory crafting autism all you want, it won't make it possible.

[Anonymous No.8159072]

>>8159062
And if someone comes out with an Ocarina of Time demo for the PS1 what kind of mental gymnastics will you do then?

The fact of the matter is there's nothing that game is doing that's outside of the capabilities of the PS1.

[Anonymous No.8159074]

>>8159072
>The fact of the matter is there's nothing that game is doing that's outside of the capabilities of the PS1
That is clearly incorrect.

[Anonymous No.8159076]

>>8159074
Then start giving technical reasons for why it couldn't draw something like Hyrule Field. Otherwise you're just a fanboy talking out your ass.

[Anonymous No.8159080]

>>8159076
It just doesn't have the processing power to do it.
>Otherwise you're just a fanboy talking out your ass.
Ironic.

[Anonymous No.8159090]

>>8158014
FD2 never got releases in Europe so I only played it relatively recently. Why did they replace half the cast with weirdos and was Mei Ling their mascot?
Joker was way cooler than Cherry.

[Anonymous No.8159097]

>>8159080
>It just doesn't have the processing power to do it.
How so? It's able to calculate and render a theoretical max of 180,000 textured, shaded, and lit polygons per second. N64 is rated at 100,000 polygons per second when all the effects are turned on (which they are for Ocarina of Time). Realistically the numbers are going to be less than either of those theoretical maximums. We've already established that Ocarina of Time is rendering at most 40,000 polygons per second at 20fps for Hyrule Field. So again this is well with in the PS1's limits.

[Anonymous No.8159101]

>>8159097
>So again this is well with in the PS1's limits.
Yet not a single game on PSX has something like Hyrule Field. Seems like there's more to this than you think.

[Anonymous No.8159117]

>>8159101
>Yet not a single game on PSX has something like Hyrule Field
Due to Scope, budget, and time. Not all studios have the luxury of having a team spend 4+ years on one game. Most of the games you're comparing it to on PS1 had much smaller teams and much shorter development timelines.

[Anonymous No.8159329]

>>8149985
A huge mistake of Nintendo was not release it with a disc reader. It could have both, but the CD would be used for games that needed FMV and large texture, like the fighting games.

If it had a CD, games like Final Fantasy and MvsC would have been released for it. So it would use an "internal" flash cartridge to store data and fast load and the CD to load the textures from. Something like the expansion pak.

[Anonymous No.8159334]

>>8150704
This story is so strange, VB was never meant to be released, it was just a R&D that didn't bear any fruit. It was a really stuped decision completely based on ego. Yokoi was not at fault.

[Anonymous No.8159342]

>>8158493
tna, but It looks different in a CRT.

[Anonymous No.8159376]

>>8158629
That's what I did back in the day, I had a setting just for N64 games on the TV, there was something wrong with the N64 image quality, the shading is always flat and the colors very low on contrast.
A shame Nintendo didn't continue with the N64 remakes, Wave Race 64 on the 3DS would have been nice.

[Anonymous No.8159390]

>>8159076
The problem isn't just processing power, the problem is the hardware. The PS1 rasteriser isn't capable of resolving tiny polygons that span fractions of pixels. The N64 on the other hand has a rasteriser that is subpixel accurate and so can guarantee that two polygons that share an edge will render with no gaps regardless of how tiny those polygons are. As Hyrule field stretches off into the distance the error introduced between the edges of the pixels when aligned to the PS1's pixel grid becomes so large that you'd get noisy, flickering pixels over the whole span. PS1 games typically avoided such wide open areas, instead they would only render distances when they could carefully and manually setup LODs, preferably from angles where some nearer object will obscure the join between the LOD levels. Hell, even close up PS1 polygons still have edge gaps, the hardware simply doesn't guarantee full coverage and devs had to introduce hacky workarounds, and those workarounds only work when your polygons have several pixels to hide overdraw in and so only work near the camera.

[Anonymous No.8159393]

>>8149985
No issues, it was oky

[Anonymous No.8159448]

>>8158493
No, this is what PS 3D looked like. It had terrible draw distances and couldn't get enough polygons.
>>8158526
>Fake edited picture of a game running on N64 is totally what PS would have looked like

Name one 3D game comparable to Ocarina on Play Station.

[Anonymous No.8159449]

>>8158575
This.
>>8158601
>Muh fps
Yeah totally ignore the way smaller draw distances, less full and open environment, and worse graphics, fps is all that matters.

[Anonymous No.8159502]

>>8158493
It's partly that the N64 used a different gamma curve to the PS1 and devs rarely understand what gamma is and never correct for it. Secondly with modern displays mapping a voltage range to 0-255 (or 0-4095 or whatever), they may obey the spec to the letter, they may gain control it, they may let the colors get blown out if it's out of spec... ultimately the N64 isn't outputting an image that a modern display likes. They got away with it on CRTs of the age, but it looks worse than it should on modern displays. Same thing with the audio, the N64 doesn't output line level, it's too "hot" which results in clipping that old analog circuits would have dealt with cleanly.

[Anonymous No.8159998]

>>8159448
Jesus, all those rectangular textures make the warping extremely obvious.

[Anonymous No.8160001]

>>8159502
stop defending the n64. It's total junk.

[Anonymous No.8160198]

>>8158493
All the replies to this post are samefag baits... Right...? Theres no way anyone seriously thinks Jet Force Gemini would look like this on PlayStation..... Right

[Anonymous No.8160316]

Serious question, not trolling or baiting: Why do Sony fans gang up on the Nintendo 64 so much?

I can admit that I grew up as a nintendie and sided with them for gens 5 and 6, but when I grew up and got older I looked back on older competitor's consoles like PS1 and PS2 I ended up retroactively enjoying them a lot and found many great new games to play I've never played before. It broadened my tastes and made me appreciate just how good we had it back then that we could have 4 ongoing big players offering so much good content with none of the pozzed caveats of today's gaming landscape. So why can't they do the same? I don't treat it like a war anymore. I still prefer N64, but I'm not gonna say one won over the other or whatever epeen measuring contest you wanna use. In my mind, everyone were winners because GEN 6 as a whole was a win. The libraries of each console excel at different things. So again I need to ask, why the continued animosity?

[Anonymous No.8160342]

>>8158493
>Implying PSX could ever draw all that or run that game
The extra space gave it some big advantages, but there was plenty it was worse at.

[Anonymous No.8160409]

>>8160198
That's not the point, it's what it would look on the N64 if it could do transparencies effects like color addiction and averaging like the PS1 could. The Ultra64 arcade board could too but the N64 has just terrible colors, flat and dull.

[Anonymous No.8160534]

>>8160409
N64:
Maximum: 16.8 million colors, 32-Bit RGBA
Pixel Color Frames Buffer Support
21-Bit color video output
16.8 million colors available
32,000 colors on screen at once

Playstation:
Maximum color depth of 16,777,216 colors (24-bit true color)
57,344 (256×224) to 153,600 (640×240) colors on screen
Unlimited color lookup tables (CLUTs)
32 levels of transparency
All calculations are performed to 24 bit accuracy
Texture mapping color mode:[8]
Mode 4: 4-bit CLUT (16 colors)
Mode 8: 8-bit CLUT (256 colors)
Mode 15: 15-bit direct (32,768 colors)
Mode 24: 24-bit (16,777,216 colors)

[Anonymous No.8160545]

>>8160409
>>8160534
N64 continues to be dogshit I see.
I'm happy the spoiled rich kid console is also the shittiest one. The real ones were on playstation.

[Anonymous No.8160589]

>>8160545
Couldn't even do a gradient on the bars, there's no way the N64 could run a port of Street Alpha 2 or 3, let alone the VS games.

[Anonymous No.8161834]

Take the fuckn64pill, /vr/.

[Anonymous No.8161843]

>>8149985
Fuck off.

[Anonymous No.8161851]

>>8158889
Mega Man Legends 2 is probably an infinitely better comparison due to that huge open area with the red wheel reaverbots.

[Anonymous No.8161857]

>>8161834
N64 is so based it gets pure seethe images like this.

[Anonymous No.8161859]

>>8161834
imagine making up that many arguments just to argue with

[Anonymous No.8161869]

>>8161834
Do you have one for the SNES or the GameCube as well?

[Anonymous No.8161909]

>>8160316
Because the N64 was an expensive console that only sold well in the wealthy country USA, so that anti-N64 hate is a proxy battle from europeans and other third worlders who simply couldn't afford one. It literally has nothing to do with the consoles themselves. This is also true of iphones, which have over 50% of the smartphone market in Japan and USA. Most of these online shit flinging wars are just non-americans eternally seething about being unable to afford the N64. People who had N64s don’t feel this level of hatred for the PS1 because we simply have no need feel so strongly over children’s toys that we had access to both.

[Anonymous No.8162023]

>>8161909
The n64 wasn't more than a psx msrpwise

[Anonymous No.8162148]

>>8161909
>the N64 was an expensive console that only sold well in the wealthy country USA
based N64

[Anonymous No.8162276]

>>8161909
Wasn't an N64 cheaper than a playstation? It was only like $150 and a PS1 was like $200+?

The games were a good bit more expensive sure if that's what you mean. But everyone only ever got games for birthday and Christmas anyway (right?)

Also, renting and borrowing games from friends was standard childhood practice.

[Anonymous No.8162305]

>>8161909
That's not true you moron. I had an N64 in Brazil. Wasn't filthy rich or anything.

[Anonymous No.8162451]

>>8160409
>>8160534
>>8160589
>emulation images
every god damn time, LOL

[Anonymous No.8162458]

>>8162023
Its games were, until around the end of 1998.

[Anonymous No.8162584]

>>8161851

[Anonymous No.8162648]

>>8162584
>>8161851
and unlike hyrule field there is actually gameplay

[Anonymous No.8162664]

Blurry and low contrast with gray black levels? Yes it's a N64 game, how could you tell?

[Anonymous No.8162674]

>>8162664
jesus christ you assholes, you keep fucking internal upscaling with emulation, it has zero bearing on how the game looked

[Anonymous No.8162706]

>>8162584
>using the jet skis
>strafing around the field
>find a perfect lip and launch yourself
feels so good man

[Anonymous No.8162750]

>>8160409
I remember playing games back at the time anc I was always more impressed by the water effects the n64 did. it could do some really nice water.

[Anonymous No.8162752]

>>8162750
Based water enjoyer

[Anonymous No.8162895]

>>8156225
/vr/dev is working on a new game engine (and tools) for the N64. Exciting stuff

[Anonymous No.8162908]

>>8162750
Yes in the case of Wave Race 64 that is still my favorite game of ever. Shame it never got remade or remastered.

[Anonymous No.8162946]

>>8162458
Irrelevant to the richfag poorfag argument. N64 players simply jsutbhad less games because they couldn't afford to buy them with the frequency psx players could.

[Anonymous No.8164832]

>>8150548
Their both scummy, but I find that EA is way scummier.

[Anonymous No.8164839]

>>8164832
how is nintendo scummy
>inb4 muh streamers muh roms

[Anonymous No.8164843]

>>8164839
Everything with a Nintendo sticker costs double what it should, they're like Apple. Are you braindead?

[Anonymous No.8164851]

>>8149985
You know the failed N64 Disk Drive? You know how awesome the Famicom Disk System was?
The main reasons why the N64 DD failed was lack of console install base, games and price.
Let's just make that a part of the N64 instead of relying on the cartridges. Now it has:Better install base, more games(both because of slightly easier development and also it's now the lowest common denominator), and... actually it's going to be pricey either way so... I guess it doesn't have THAT going for it? Probably would be a hell'va lot cheaper than the DD AND base N64 to produce simultaneously though.

[Anonymous No.8164865]

>>8164843
what do you even mean
even if that's true that's not nearly as scummy as sony and microsoft practices

[Anonymous No.8164870]

>>8150723
>Is nintendo yakuza now
Pretty much any international company has ties with the yakuza. They're like the CCP board member that is on every Chinese company that exports internationally, but somehow less shitty, despite how ridiculous the whole situation is.

[Anonymous No.8164872]

>>8164851
The stuff that did get released for the DD looked really good for what it was, and it was basically an after thought at that point. imagine if they were putting their full resources behind it and third parties were able to utilize it's space and features as well. it's actual really disappointing as a fan that they fucked it up

[Anonymous No.8164879]

>>8164865
that's right, be a good goy and buy 10+ year old hardware at a premium price, dont forget to buy super mario bros for the 10th time as well.

[Anonymous No.8164889]

>>8154201
Yeah, the Saturn's biggest failing was that it was a complete bitch to program for.
Surprisingly, this wasn't due to any hardware problems, or even the complexity of the architecture of most of the chips. It really just boiled down to the fact the Saturn had no TRUE 3D, instead relying entirely on mangling sprites into oblivion. Additionally, it didn't really have a good transparency effect to apply, so only a VERY select few games actually had a proper fade out based on render distance(Sonic R is one of them). Additionally, the architecture of the coprocessors was a bit difficult, mostly due to how barebones the co processor actually was.
Despite all of this, the Saturn was exceptionally powerful, from my understanding at least, if you used it to its fullest extent.
It also is the best for 2D platformers, having the absolute largest sprite count support of any of the consoles.

[Anonymous No.8164890]

>>8164879
why did you go full on shitposting mode when we were having a normal dialogue? if making you pay more for mediocre hardware is the worse they do then nintendo is a downright saint as far as tech companies go

[Anonymous No.8164907]

>>8164890
Not that anon(I suspect he'll reply mere seconds after I do), but dude. He has a point. You're literally paying for a rebadged Nvidia K1 tablet with slight modifications at launch price of that said tablet. Taking into account the price drops by the time the Switch actually hit the market, you're paying for a tablet with a 300% markup in price.
At least Microsoft and Sony both have the decency to TRY to get some different hardware from the store bought parts.

[Anonymous No.8164912]

>>8164907
nah man microsoft and sony are way worse. Fuck em
I can't believe I have to defend a company I dislike against other companies I dislike

[Anonymous No.8164919]

>>8164912
All of the companies are shit, and they're pretty much equally shit. Don't bother defending any of them unless it's completely unwarranted and false criticism.

[Anonymous No.8164920]

>>8164912
game pass alone is better than anything nintendo ever done. fuck off you disingenuous faggot.

[Anonymous No.8164928]

>>8164920
game pass is a trojan horse and you know it
>>8164919
but I need to split hairs though...nintendo isn't japanese ea

[Anonymous No.8164935]

>>8164928
Yeah, bit of a bad comparison, but you should've offered up a better comparison rather than launching into defense mode lite.

[Anonymous No.8165789]

>>8164907
normal people don't care about tech specs, because ultimately those don't dictate how good te product is to use.

[Anonymous No.8166158]

>>8150548
>posting thumbnails

[Anonymous No.8167583]

>>8165789
>normal people don't care about tech specs
Well, most of them don't anyways. But you know who does?
>those don't dictate how good the product is to use.
Yeah but this does dictate what kind of developers want to develop for the system, thereby changing the overall quality of the product.

Also, barring developers, I do care that they're selling us a 99$ product for 300$, in the process not only giving us less features than the previous generations, and seriously restricting the software, but also the fact that the quality of the product sucks. Joystick drift, constant E-shop lag, and lack of real personality. I mean, for fucks sake, not even any music on the E-shop, a STAPLE since the E-shop was introduced.

[Anonymous No.8167709]

>>8161909

The fuck are you talking about? Mexico is a shithole and most of my friends had a N64.

[Anonymous No.8167729]

>>8149985
best console ever made. 25 years later and you still can't get over not getting one in christmas of 96. you're a faggot. sage.

[Anonymous No.8167741]

>>8167729
Lmao, why the fuck would I be upset about not getting an N64 when I owned the far superior Playstation X.

[Anonymous No.8167784]

>>8167741
I had both. they were both great. sorry you missed out.

[Anonymous No.8167789]

>>8159448
>everything is shaking
>lines on textures are never straight
People really think this shit looks better?

[Anonymous No.8167817]

>>8167784
N64 was trash. No good fighting games, no good RPGs, no original strategy games just ports, no challenging action-platformers just baby collectathon shit, no shmups or gun games, it's a failed console.

>but
>muh
>Zelda!

[Anonymous No.8167849]

>>8167789
people who weren't alive in the 90s look at still images of PS1 games and compare them to the earliest N64 games and tell you the PS1 had better graphics because they didn't actually play the games. Super Mario 64 is, alone, more impressive than anything prosuced on PS1 outside of a few notable exceptions that were only possible by majorly hampering one graphical quality, e.g. Vagrant Story being very pretty but only accomplishing this by making every environment tiny as fuck. The N64 is clearly the more powerful machine. Any of the best late-cycle N64 games like Conker or Perfect Dark absolutely blow anything on PS1 out of the water. There's an argument to made for framerate but the reason many PS1 games had better framerates is purely because they weren't oushing the polys that N64 games were. In contrast, if the N64 ran a game like Crash or Spyro, it would do so with complete ease. 64 but machine vs 32 bit, 360k polys vs less than 200k polys, and lightning fast data transfer and load times due to cartridge format. The only real limitations of the N64 were texture pipeline and inherit cartridge size which really only had an impact on audio quality as most PS1 games would fit easily on an N64, it was the audio data that required disc space. The N64 is the more powerful machine.

[Anonymous No.8167865]

>>8167817
>no gun games
what does this even mean lmao. half of the best games on N64 are "gun games". Quake, Goldeneye, Duke 64x Jet Force Gemini, etc. even if we pretend you've actually played this console, this statement is just retarded. also
>muh no rpgs, muh no fighters
good

[Anonymous No.8167868]

>>8167849
yeah but non first party n64 games tend towards mediocre at best
I like the n64 and had a hidden gem phase, it was grim

[Anonymous No.8167883]

>>8149993
They knew it would’ve overshadowed Mario 64. Horace pisses all over that fat wanker Mario

[Anonymous No.8167887]

I own an N64 and several iterations of the PlayStation. I enjoy them both immensely. Both systems have fun games and shit games. I like them both equally.

[Anonymous No.8167889]

>>8167865
Gun games are what you call Virtua Cop, Time Crisis and Lethal Enforcers, you clueless cunt.

>playing first person shooters on consoles
>on a console with no mouse accessory
Absolutely fucking disgusting. Kys.

[Anonymous No.8167894]

>>8150805
the only really good games i can think of for PSX are like, MGS and some JRPGs

everything else on psx kinda sucked due to bad graphics and physics
n64 had a lot of really good games and some of them had really good replayability

golden eye
perfect dark
rogue squadron
shadows of the empire (aged poorly but was good at the time)
zelda
mario
smash bros
jet force jemini
starfox
mario kart
resident evil 2
etc

[Anonymous No.8167897]

>>8150687
He gave them the virtual boy as a farewell present, which is basically the game equivalent of giving your coworkers small pox during your retirement party. He basically spent the last year of his time at Nintendo desperately trying to make things better after he shot everyone in the foot, then he left, made the WonderSwan and got hit by a car and died

[Anonymous No.8167898]

>>8167868
There are plenty of good 3rd party games. I don't know what you played but Nintendo even had a specially appointed "dream team" of developers spanning Midway, Activision and more who they gave additional development resources. I'd argue 3rd party N64 games are typically of a vastly better quality than those on an average console. Barring the sea of shitty sports and racing games, you could stick your hand in a barrel of random N64 games and come out with something passably good almost every time. Definitely try all of the id Software shooters like DOOM 64, Gauntlet Legends, Wipeout 64, Mega Man 64, Wetrix, Tetrisphere, Rayman 2, StarCraft 64, Command and Conquer and Harvest Moon 64 if you haven't already.

[Anonymous No.8167901]

>>8167889
N64 did have a mouse and it worked with goldeneye though