/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.8147084]

Why were N64 games so buttugly? don't get me wrong, it was clearly the more powerful console of its gen, but the devs only made ugly games with it. Only titles that didn't rape my eyes were Yoshi's Story and Wonder Project J2

[Anonymous No.8147090]

Because you're playing it on an emulator with upscaling. On a real console, on a real TV, N64 games looked much better than Playstation and Saturn games.

[Anonymous No.8147097]

>>8147090
>it looks good once you obscure all the flaws
Why are nintentoddlers like this?

[Anonymous No.8147101]

>>8147097
>>8147084
This isn’t /v, stop trying to incite flanewars

[Anonymous No.8147114]

>>8147084
This looks much better than anything on PS1

[Anonymous No.8147119]

>>8147084
It's the shitty textures mostly due to cartridge space and texture cache limits.

[Anonymous No.8147131]

>>8147119
It's not just the texture issue, but they always picked the worst colour compositions + weird geometry. Its games look very tacky to this day.

[Anonymous No.8147140]

>>8147090
This, play with real hardware on the intended television. N64 will still have it signature look just like any other hardware did, your just a pleb getting filtered on your soulless butt emulator.

[Anonymous No.8147142]

>>8147140
>This, play with real hardware on the intended television
that applies to every console out there, n64 isn't the special kids club

[Anonymous No.8147147]

>>8147084
A few reasons:
1. Despite the impression that the N64 was powerful, it actually had serious hardware design issues. The N64 was capable of a really high "max speed" but its "cruising speed" is pretty terrible. This required a lot of compromises on visual quality, even compared to the PS1.
2. Cartridge format. If you turn off texture filtering in an emulator, you'll see that many N64 textures are lower res than NES sprites.
3. Speaking of which: texture filtering is endemic. I don't know if it's even possible for devs to turn it off, but in any case, it was always on. Personally, I would have preferred nearest-neighbor scaling in more cases. It didn't hurt Minecraft.

>>8147090
As an N64 owner from day one, no... no.

[Anonymous No.8147172]

>>8147097
It's the same for PS1 and its warped textures to be honest. Look at Snake in MGS1. Those face pixels were meant to be smoothed by a CRT TV.

[Anonymous No.8147176]

I like the way 64 games look, but it has such a particular aesthetic. Nothing else has really looked like it before or after. The smoothed out textures make everything kind of hazy and dreamy.
DK64 holds up really well, by the way.

[Anonymous No.8147181]

>>8147172
I distinctly remember playing Tony Hawk's on a CRT, and wondering why the game was spazzing out like that.

[Anonymous No.8147182]

>>8147084

What's ugly about that screenshot for example?
It's supposed to be not the prettiest planet but a simple barren landscape with primitive villages, and it pulls it off quite well. That would be cherry picking, the same game later also has nicely futuristic looking spaceshp interiors and the military base for example is also very nice to look at because dark with cool futuristic neon effects and lights.
You will in every game for every system find party where the surroundings look plain and not very exciting.

[Anonymous No.8148115]

>>8147176
>Nothing else has really looked like it before or after.
FFVIII on PC came pretty close.

[Anonymous No.8148123]

>>8147084
Any 240p/480i game will look like ass upscaled on an LCD/OLED monitor. Games look great on my RGB modded N64 connected to my 900TVL BVM.

[Anonymous No.8148134]

>>8147097
The games and the hardware were designed to be smoothened by the TVs of the time period. Other consoles used similar tricks.

[Anonymous No.8148135]

>>8148115
I actually kind of like that

[Anonymous No.8148172]

>>8147176
finally someone that agrees
You literally can't say this in retro circles or people jump down your throat and call you a nintendrone coping seethe whatever

People talk about PSX aesthetics but nothing compares to how dreamlike n64 games feel
I wouldn't give up my experience with it for the world. Even if the PSX has a massive library and might appeal to my more adult sensibilities and desire for offbeat games. Wandering around in those n64 worlds is incomparable to anything on PSX

[Anonymous No.8148178]

>>8148172
yes, it's very "dreamlike". mario 64 and MM have it, too. Paper Mario also.

[Anonymous No.8148179]

>>8147176
>Native 1080p de-blurred version running on an emulator
>I love the way 64 games look
That's not a 64 game anymore, OP's picture is far more accurate.

[Anonymous No.8148229]

>tfw I sold my nintendo 64 and bought a saturn for /vr/ cool points
>None of the saturn games I've played evoke that same feeling from me
I literally only like panzer dragoon and burning rangers on this entire console

[Anonymous No.8148239]

>>8147084
It was the infancy of 3d console gaming zoom zoom

[Anonymous No.8148259]

>>8148239
Saturn, Playstation and many PC games of the era have more compelling aesthetics despite being more limited graphically. Perhaps because of that, as they needed creativity and a good aesthetical sense to make their games appeal to a broader public.

[Anonymous No.8148269]

>>8147176
too bad about that framerate for a platformer no less

[Anonymous No.8148274]

>>8148178
I do wonder if part of the reason so many people feel Zelda peaked on N64 is that the system's particular limitations suited the series really well.
Twilight Princess of Breath of the Wild may technically look better, but they're lacking that certain something that the N64 games had.

[Anonymous No.8148278]

>>8148269
Man dk64 is perfect. It was the only game I owned. I must have wandered around in that game for literal years. I don't think I ever best it.
Dk64 is a perfect game. I don't think people understand what games aimed for youth are supposed to be anymore. What even is a modern kids game? Don't think I've ever seen one

[Anonymous No.8148280]

>>8147176
honestly ps2 kinda looks like a higher res n64, right down to the blurry textures

[Anonymous No.8148283]

>>8148269
DK framerate was fine from what I remember. Tooie and Conker were the games that really suffered.

[Anonymous No.8148284]

>>8148172
>You literally can't say this in retro circles or people jump down your throat and call you a nintendrone coping seethe whatever
I feel like you were being trolled. People have different subjective tastes, but there is no way anyone could claim with a straight face PS1 graphics are as good as N64 ones.

[Anonymous No.8148287]

>>8148172
>You literally can't say this in retro circles
this is mostly on 4chan and from manbaby 37 year olds who never grew up post the console wars

[Anonymous No.8148291]

>>8148284
People literally do it every day.
And to be fair, in some regards they are capable of more impressive visuals, as long as developers put a lot of work into textures, or pre-rendered backgrounds, and you don't mind the graphics wobbling all over the screen.

[Anonymous No.8148292]

>>8148274
it's the well composed low quality midi sound track and masterful SFX.
Great level design too. The only weak spot is probably hyrule field funny enough.
I still haven't finished botw. It just bores me. I don't feel invested at all. I don't feel rewarded for exploring. I don't like the dungeon design. Traversing the map often feels like a chore.

[Anonymous No.8148293]

it was the style at the time. zoomers wouldn't understand.

[Anonymous No.8148296]

>>8148259
>Saturn, Playstation and many PC games of the era have more compelling aesthetics
I own a Saturn, used to own a Playstation, still own my N64. I don't think there's anything on the former systems that has "more compelling" aesthetics. All three systems offer something different in my eyes, but N64 wins the 3D department. If we're talking about the spritework of the Saturn or the pre-rendered stuff for PS1, sure, those are great aesthetics, but PS1 games had to have smaller and narrower level design to pull off the 3D look that the N64 could.

[Anonymous No.8148306]

>>8148296
>but PS1 games had to have smaller and narrower level design to pull off the 3D look that the N64 could.
what the fuck does that have to do with aesthetics

[Anonymous No.8148313]

>>8147131
N64 was very limited color wise.

[Anonymous No.8148314]

>>8148306
>playstation fan
Here we go everyone....

[Anonymous No.8148323]

>>8148313
And nintendo has always been terrible at colour compositions. C64 has a smaller color palate than the NES, but the graphics are much less garish and more pleasant looking.

[Anonymous No.8148324]

>>8148314
What N64 game looks as aesthetically pleasing as RRT4 or Panzer Dragoon Zwei? please notice the difference between a beautiful image and powerful graphics. Perfect Dark is beyond what PSX/SS can hope to run, but it's got a terrible sense of aesthetics.

[Anonymous No.8148330]

>>8148324
>What N64 game looks as aesthetically pleasing
Should've stopped there.

[Anonymous No.8148331]

>>8148324
Here we go everybody. Hands and feet inside the carriage.

[Anonymous No.8148336]

>>8148314
Did he really try to argue that a small, narrow level design has the same aesthetics as a huge open populated landscape?

[Anonymous No.8148348]

>>8148330
>>8148336

[Anonymous No.8148351]

>>8148330
>>8148331
>If I dodge the main question of the thread, I win the debate.
>>8148336
Why doesn't a single racing game on N64 looks as beautiful as Wipeout 3, RRT4, or Sega Rally? even the Wipeout and RR games for N64 look uglier than their 32-bit counterparts, despite looking "cleaner" and moving more polygons.

You guys probably think Crysis is more beautiful than ICO because it's better graphically.

[Anonymous No.8148353]

>>8148324
This is highly subjective, but lots of examples have already been given. Paper Mario, Yoshi's Story, Zelda, all of these games have consistent and thoughtful art design all throughout, a clear eye for "aesthetics", and I realize I'm making an unironic the list goes on post, but still, all my favorite games on the system have a signature look to them and look great in my eyes.

[Anonymous No.8148354]

>>8148292
You aren't missing much, especially in regards to getting the true end. BOTW still has excellent qualities but the massive world becomes a bore without fast travel, the soundtrack is too minimal, and some of the sides quests really weren't worth the time or efffort it took to do them.
Still a neat experiment but it makes you appreciate the older Zeldas a lot more.

[Anonymous No.8148359]

>>8148351

[Anonymous No.8148360]

>>8148353
That's the problem, Nintendo has a literal handful (as in you can count them with the fingers of one hand) that everybody gives. I never said in the OP that N64 doesn't have beautiful games, I even provided examples of beautiful games, but it definitely has fewer games that are pleasant to look at compared to the others.
>>8148359
Being triggered is not an argument.

[Anonymous No.8148363]

>>8148360

[Anonymous No.8148367]

>>8148363
What N64 game is that?

[Anonymous No.8148369]

>>8148351
I've never been that wowed by Wipeout. It looks alright, I guess, but that pop-in's pretty garish.

[Anonymous No.8148381]

I wish I could have playstation games on my n64. N64 has a severe lack of adult games. Like what am I supposed to play? N64 totally could have handled silent hill 1. I am so sad. I'll never get to play those games

[Anonymous No.8148383]

>>8148369
I feel like I'm arguing with dishonest assholes. Of course a PSX title is gonna have more graphical faults than a N64 title. And the cinematography of Intolerance by D.W. Griffith is less advanced than that of 2021's Dune. But guess which one looks more beautiful, compelling, inspiring, will withstand the test of time better.

[Anonymous No.8148384]

>>8148381
Classic Ausfag post.

[Anonymous No.8148386]

>>8148280
That's because the PS2 was basically the Super N64 in its hardware design

[Anonymous No.8148387]

>>8148383
F-Zero X

[Anonymous No.8148390]

>>8148383
I'm amazed that you haven't realized nobody is interested in having this discussion with you yet

[Anonymous No.8148392]

>>8148390
Oh, I forgot this is /vr/ and it's full of pic relateds. Perhaps you should read the OP once more, but I'm afraid you're gonna get upset again,

[Anonymous No.8148397]

>>8148392
Okay dude what do you want us to say? The psx has the best games they look feel smell sound the best it's just the best.
Like what the fuck do you want? You butt into a chill conversation talking about n64 aesthetics and you start sperging out everywhere that the psx is superior and your opinion is correct. Jesus christ man

[Anonymous No.8148398]

>>8148383
>consoles released two years apart
>comparing them to two films released 105 years apart
Take your meds, goddamn

[Anonymous No.8148403]

>>8148392
literally not allowed to appreciate any aspect of the n64 on this board and you want to act like some attacked victim for agreeing with status quo

[Anonymous No.8148408]

>>8148397
>you start sperging out everywhere that the psx is superior and your opinion is correct. Jesus christ man
I'm the one providing an opinion. You're the one posting rollercoaster carriages and calling it an opinion. You know what, it's impossible always with guys who grew up with Nintendo systems. I rather discuss my religious doubts with Catholic fundamentalists than ever imply again that N64 games use weird colour palettes.

[Anonymous No.8148417]

>>8148408
I didn't post any opinions or arguments.
Ok man you're right the psx is the best console it looks beautiful you're a good damn genius

[Anonymous No.8148420]

>>8148408
your conversation starter is
>I think the PlayStation looks better
Ok. Where do you expect that to go?

[Anonymous No.8148439]

>>8148420
conversation starter is
>Why are N64 games ugly?
is there a reason for why a more capable system would have uglier games? this anon >>8148313 says that N64 was limited color wise. This other one >>8147119 provides light to some N64 bottlenecks that explain why N64 aesthetical choices weren't a choice after all. You? you spam rollercoaster images after going into a "I CAN'T EVEN" rampage. Compare your shitposts to what the other anons cited here provided. You came here ready to be triggered and lash out. It's better for your health to stay away if this thread hurts your feelings so much. Shift + click to hide.

[Anonymous No.8148443]

>>8148408
Am I allowed to like the N64's colour palettes? Am I allowed to think PS games look kind of pixelated and juddery?

[Anonymous No.8148452]

>>8148439
The n64 looks the way it does because of hardware based anti aliasing and limited space for textures due to cartridge limitations. Everything must use the same ram which also limits resources. The n64 is the way it is because it has an impressive SGI chip surrounded by dogshit nintendo cost cutting. This gives it the unique aesthetic it has.

Are we done here? I don't understand why you keep trying to make me seem like I'm offended. And that wasn't even the conversation starter.
I like the n64 more. If you value technical prowess that's your thing. But I like the nintendo 64. All your posturing isn't going to change that. You keep trying to prove me 'wrong' on a matter of opinion and then you immediately shirk back when confronted and accuse me of being too emotional and how that was never your intent.

It's all so tiresome . The same argument everyday.

[Anonymous No.8148454]

>>8148351
this webm actually made me cry intensely

[Anonymous No.8148457]

>>8148443
Yes, might have been easier if you started with that and provide counter examples when I asked about them (hint: the posts with webms), instead of going full spaghetti spilling mode and rollercoaster image rampage. Talk about games you think look beautiful for the N64, like the anon saying DKC (I disagree, but see how I didn't complain about his opinion), provide images. If that's too hard for you, then please abstain from this thread.
>>8148452
>You keep trying to prove me 'wrong' on a matter of opinion and then you immediately shirk back when confronted and accuse me of being too emotional and how that was never your intent.
I take posts like "OH BOY HERE WE GO" as an insult. That's not confrontation but disrespect. Please re-read my posts and see if they merit your reaction.

[Anonymous No.8148461]

>>8148457
I am the anon who posted DK64.

[Anonymous No.8148468]

>>8148457
Literally every 5th gen thread has a PlayStation evangelist coming to shout people down so yeah it warrants my reactions
>Counter examples
There are none. You already dismissed all the games people would come how with. What more is there to say. This is a BORING discussion.

[Anonymous No.8148475]

>>8148457
You don't like the Nintendo 64 visuals. What are you trying to gain from this? Your mind won't change.

[Anonymous No.8148478]

[Anonymous No.8148481]

>>8148457
You are talking to more than one person

[Anonymous No.8148482]

>>8148478
>that sunset
I cry.

[Anonymous No.8148491]

>>8148351
im literally seething with jealousy that I didn't grow up with games that looked half this good

[Anonymous No.8148493]

texture filtering was hot shit back then but looks like garbage to modern eyes because modern texture filtering is fine while back then it just made shit blurry, people were impressed by glquake back in the day and they fucking hate it now and try to ape software as much as possible
>>8147090
nah the guns in goldeneye still looked shit

[Anonymous No.8148497]

>>8148491
It's really sad when you start doing this, bro. Go and play Panzer Dragoon or Horace and the Spiders or something.

[Anonymous No.8148501]

>>8148497
i don't own any of that
I torture myself everyday for living the wrong childhood

[Anonymous No.8148503]

Art direction is everything and it trumps your nostalgia.

[Anonymous No.8148505]

>>8148501
Horace
Spiders
Now

[Anonymous No.8148510]

>>8148505
don't own

[Anonymous No.8148513]

>>8148503
n64 has art direction you just personally dislike it

[Anonymous No.8148519]

>>8148510
I know you have it.

[Anonymous No.8148524]

>>8148519
i don't even know what that game is

[Anonymous No.8148530]

*yawn* wave race 64 and star fox 64. Tell me those games look bad.

[Anonymous No.8148579]

If only some brave young Australian buck would get in here and show these ignorant peasants how a real video game looks.

[Anonymous No.8148592]

>>8148503

[Anonymous No.8148601]

>>8147176
based

[Anonymous No.8148604]

>>8148579
Say no more, friend. It's time for some Saturn kino.

[Anonymous No.8148615]

>>8148274
Most the new zeldas just feel...unfinished to me.
I hate the zora egg hunt but it pales in comparison to all the padding and reused shit the new games have.
Idk why Anouma got the franchise when Koizumi hard carried the n64 titles.

[Anonymous No.8148624]

>>8148604
You know if they just made this 1st person or anime it would work. The previous Hydlide doods were anime and looked cool enough.

[Anonymous No.8148647]

>>8148323
Yes the NES was so ugly, in Europe we had better systems like the Amiga and the Master-System that made the NES look primitive, those colors never clicked with me.
With the N64 there's something wrong with it, the contrast is so low, the bandwidth seems limited plus there's no color FX like addictive blending which was what made the PS1 look better.
Look at the sky here, is a solid shade of blue while on the PS1 there's a gradient.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_V-s1r26-3M

The PS1 was very janky and jittery so it wasn't perfect either, N64 games still play great today like Wave Race 64.

[Anonymous No.8148667]

If the N64 was closer to the Ultra 64 arcade board it would have been amazing, it could do addictive blending so I don't get why the N64 couldn't at all, not even demos did it. The contrast and color range is high, the colors bright, not fuzzy or blurry.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85C7bF0osAc

[Anonymous No.8148717]

>>8147090
No, no they did not.

[Anonymous No.8148719]

>>8148667
Fuck I love addictive blending

[Anonymous No.8148720]

>>8147114
You're delusional. Flat of all, any 2d game on ps1 low better than any 3d game that gen, period.

Next, ps1 has Megaman legends, vagrant story, metal gear, and ff9.

[Anonymous No.8148726]

>>8147176
Looks like the jank ass game it is. N64 is fucking China tier. Bad art direction.

[Anonymous No.8148734]

>>8148296
Megaman legends shits on your theory.

[Anonymous No.8148737]

>>8148353
Ocarina is ugly and cheap looking. Paper mario and y9shi look good because they're 2 of the only 2d games on the whole system.

[Anonymous No.8148759]

As is typically the case with Nintendo hardware, the N64, despite being years newer and much more expensive, and "on paper" seeming to be "much more powerful", had serious bottlenecks and design flaws that would prevent it from seriously competing with the better engineered PS1 and Saturn hardware, often touting blurred and ugly textures, jagged and low polycount models, limited colour palettes with zero saturation or vividness, and, possibly worst of all, framerates that were often halved by comparison. It is typical Nintendo hardware: a terrible piece of hardware masquerading as "the most powerful", when, in fact, it is anything but.

[Anonymous No.8148770]

>>8148734
100%, the 64 port is embarrassing for Legends. Shows off all the consoles weaknesses while falling short of the PS1 original in every way. It's incredible how bad it is. The N64 we got on paper isn't the N64 we got in our hands and basically every game serves as a reminder. The textures are the lowest resolution of all 3 consoles, the geometry is simpler than PS1 games and in the few shared n64-saturn ports manages to pale in comparison to the Saturn. Even then the tricks the N64 could do haven't really held up. Lens flares, three point filtering, anti-aliasing, were all quickly rendered obsolete by new technology. Saturn can still impress with cool infinite plane tricks or 2D flexing, PS1 has really nice models, texture work, gorgeous particle effects and that really cool point motion blur that a few games use to great effect. 64 just doens't hold up.

Carmack said it best, the technology was premature.

[Anonymous No.8148786]

>>8148734
Crapcom for 3 console gens was able to make the most out of what they were given. Some even say they did it for DC too. How did they do it? How did they do better than the 1st party? Slave labor?

[Anonymous No.8148790]

>>8148719
Ocarina would have looked amazing with glows and glares, all those light effects. N64 just does colored lights and transparencies, that's it.

[Anonymous No.8148793]

>>8148786
They remembered what made them successful for the past two generations. Everyone else forgot because of shiny new thing. The ability to design within limitations is what put the NES era companies on the map. But as soon as the push for 3D came, everyone started pasting 16x16 photographs and 100 poly "realistic" models on everything.

[Anonymous No.8148801]

>>8148793
Oh maybe that's true. They just figured out how hard you can push the PSX, which everyone was working on their own toolsets to MAKE IT SO REALISTIC OMG. Like fucking Square. . .

[Anonymous No.8148872]

>>8148734
N64 version is better. Its smooth graphics look more like the anime aesthetic they were going for than the pixelated PS1 game, and the controls are a lot better too.

[Anonymous No.8148884]

>>8148872
nah, n64 version looks heinous. obnoxious polygon seams, incredibly low res textures ruins details like the wrecked flutter, and of course the sound is compressed to shit. Just a gigantic downgrade.

[Anonymous No.8148925]

>>8148884
>obnoxious polygon seams
No there aren't. Post a picture from a CRT.
>incredibly low res textures ruins details like the wrecked flutter
The game looks almost the same except it's smoother.
>and of course the sound is compressed to shit
Sounds fine on my set up, literally no idea what you're talking about.

[Anonymous No.8148929]

>>8148925
all lies. Keep digging.

[Anonymous No.8148940]

>>8148929
This would be a slam dunk if you mentioned draw distance anywhere in your post (you didn't)Fine, I'll grant that N64 has bad draw distance. All of the textures, backgrounds, megaman's sprite, look identical there. And you haven't demonstrated "polygon seaming" in the N64 version.

[Anonymous No.8148942]

>>8148929
2 years newer hardware and an expensive game cartridge which is almost double the cost, folks.

[Anonymous No.8148972]

>>8148942
That port was released in 2001. Pretty safe to say zero effort was put into it and they just wanted more use out of their voice compression technology used for RE2's N64 port.

[Anonymous No.8148974]

>>8148972
shouldn't really need a ton of effort if the N64 was as good as the PS1.

[Anonymous No.8148976]

>>8148647
nice comparison

[Anonymous No.8148978]

>>8148770
>and in the few shared n64-saturn ports manages to pale in comparison to the Saturn
The utter delusion.

[Anonymous No.8148979]

>>8148972
Does it take "effort" to have better draw distance on an allegedly "far more powerful" piece of hardware?

[Anonymous No.8148980]

>>8148979
Yes. It's called a lack of optimization.

[Anonymous No.8148981]

>>8148978
Saturn Quake has higher polygon counts than N64 quake. Cry about it, N64 port couldn't push as many polys because the N64 wasn't up to the task.

>>8148980
prove it wasn't optimized.

[Anonymous No.8148982]

>>8148981
>Saturn Quake has higher polygon counts than N64 quake
Prove it.

[Anonymous No.8148987]

>>8148982
Done.

[Anonymous No.8148989]

>>8148987
Isn't the Saturn version cheating by having 2D sprites for weapons and incredibly simplified enemy models?

[Anonymous No.8149000]

>>8148989
Isn't the N64 cheating by getting rid of tapered ceilings and making rooms basically hollow cubes because it couldn't even outperform the Saturn, the demonstrably most obtuse 3D console of the generation?

[Anonymous No.8149006]

>>8149000
The sense of scale in the Saturn version is just fucked. Everything is too small. That bridge just kind of awkwardly falls down from the sky instead of coming out of the wall too. Just an extremely jank version of the game in every sense of the word.

[Anonymous No.8149017]

>>8149006
don't give a shit, has nothing to do with the objective reality that the n64 version butchers quake to get it to run.

[Anonymous No.8149020]

>>8149017
The N64 version actually plays like Quake and at a better framerate. The Saturn version is just fucked beyond belief as far as gameplay and framerate goes. It's also way too dark as you can see in all of these screenshots.

[Anonymous No.8149028]

>>8149020
>B-BUT MY GOALPOST SHIFT
don't fucking care kid, you got btfo

[Anonymous No.8149031]

>>8149028
Does it actually have a higher polycount though? It's basically just the environment and the five polygon enemy models.

[Anonymous No.8149032]

>>8149031
yes, as proven by all comparisons.

[Anonymous No.8149035]

>>8149032
Those screenshots don't have any polycounts in them. The Saturn version only has normal mode enemy spawns too.

[Anonymous No.8149041]

count them to prove your point, demonstrably the environments are more detailed. If the saturn can achieve that while using less polygons, that simply means the game is better programmed on saturn. Not a big surprise.

[Anonymous No.8149048]

>>8148360
It has fewer games in general, there's only ~393 N64 games vs ~7,918 PSX games.

[Anonymous No.8149061]

>>8149041
I'm not the one who made the claim.

[Anonymous No.8149069]

God I fucking knew the Saturn quake guy was behind this thread. You are my absolute least favorite poster, just know that.

[Anonymous No.8149070]

>>8148324
>Perfect Dark is beyond what PSX/SS can hope to run, but it's got a terrible sense of aesthetics.
wrong it looks great

[Anonymous No.8149071]

>>8148759
The Nintendo 64, or as I like to call it, the Ninturdo Shitsty4, is a supermarket cashier compared to the beastly Sega Saturn. Check out that transparency effect. Sega does what Ninturdon't.

[Anonymous No.8149072]

>>8149069
What about the Sega System poster, or the guy who posts this gif (haven't seen him in a while)

[Anonymous No.8149073]

>>8149061
Then don't reply.

[Anonymous No.8149075]

>>8148392
have you tried crying about it?

[Anonymous No.8149081]

>>8149069
I'm not the guy who made the thread, but I'm happy to make you seethe so much. You will never succeed with your historical revisionism by the way.

[Anonymous No.8149084]

>>8149081
>You will never succeed with your historical revisionism by the way.
Ironic coming from the guy who has dedicated years of his life to defending this.

[Anonymous No.8149086]

>>8148348
>>8148359
>>8148363
What is this brave new meme?

[Anonymous No.8149087]

>>8149084
Your butthurt fuels me

[Anonymous No.8149089]

>>8147084
Because, Nintendo paid bottom dollar for top dollar hardware and got what they expected.
Also, the way it handles mipmapping makes thing look fuzzy, with no way to turn it off.

[Anonymous No.8149092]

>>8149087
Cringe post.

[Anonymous No.8149093]

>>8149086
jesus christ i haven't laughed that hard in a long time

[Anonymous No.8149094]

>>8149092
This is such a great port. I still play this to this day.

[Anonymous No.8149101]

>>8149084
Holy fuck, those monsters not even attacking you... this isn't quake at all.

[Anonymous No.8149136]

>>8148872
Lolno its trash.

[Anonymous No.8149142]

>>8147084
Probably made enough from nes/snes and didn't care at that time just released 10 or so games worth playing

[Anonymous No.8149143]

>>8148987
Jesus christ you wreck this guy, post after post lmao.

[Anonymous No.8149172]

>>8148354
You can fast travel to every single shrine and tower, anon

[Anonymous No.8149176]

>>8149143
The right looks terrible

[Anonymous No.8149179]

>>8149176
As if the left looks better... not!

[Anonymous No.8149201]

>>8149179
I've played both versions. It not only looks better but feels and plays better. Tell me >>8149084 looks better than >>8149092

Nobody has a photographic enough memory to notice the kinds of differences in hallways between the N64 version and the PC version. What matters is that the experience of playing the game is similar and that the engine is consistent throughout. Nobody actually thinks a rectangle hallway with more space to move around is "butchering" the game because it's not as narrow as the original or because it's missing an arch. Saturn Quake is inferior in just about every way, the anon defending it has absolutely nothing except polygons and archways or whatever. He's even admitted in the past he doesn't even like playing quake on consoles so why he defends it every single time an N64 game is mentioned still blows my mind.

[Anonymous No.8149213]

>>8149201
these people think textures are the only deciding factor
no one with any sense thinks >>8149084 looks better than >>8149092

[Anonymous No.8149234]

>>8149101
They used the Powerslave engine for Saturn Quake, and even then it still has performance issues. The slower enemy ferocity makes sense when you take that into account, on top of the terribad controls.

[Anonymous No.8149318]

>>8149201
>>8149213
You're nuts to claim that level geometry and aesthetics don't matter to a game like Quake. Might as well just make everything look like Asteroids. And the argument to begin with was that it looked better, and it does. Far more complex shapes, proper lighting, better animations .

[Anonymous No.8149342]

cartridge space means textures are ant sized. in the era of pre rendered backgrounds you can REALLY see how bad the texture resolution was.
why the fuck did they pick cartridges in 1996 when the playstation came out 2 years before and used disks?

[Anonymous No.8149347]

>>8148513
shit art direction

[Anonymous No.8149348]

>>8149342
No loading times is worth reduced texture quality, lower quality music, and no FMV movies.

[Anonymous No.8149350]

>>8149348
I'd rather wait a couple seconds for the game to load a than look at the absolute vomit that is a 3d game in a 64mb space. I really don't see how its worth

[Anonymous No.8149353]

>>8147147
turok has a cheat to turn off texture filtering but its doesn't speed up anything, I may have seen an f1 game where the sand was unfiltered.

[Anonymous No.8149363]

>>8147084
People sure like to bitch alot.

[Anonymous No.8149375]

>>8149318
>level geometry
lol ok
>>8149363
that's because there are a lot of bitches

[Anonymous No.8149479]

>>8148929
I don't feel so good Nintendobros...

[Anonymous No.8149496]

>>8147084
Imagine being a faggot that doesn't play enough games.

[Anonymous No.8149501]

>>8149496
>not 4K
dyel

[Anonymous No.8149502]

>>8147140
>This, play with real hardware on the intended television.
A shit product is one that isn't timeless, bitchass. Why are fucking SNES/Genesis games more timeless than shitty 1st gen 3D video games?

[Anonymous No.8149508]

>>8148172
>Wandering around in those n64 worlds is incomparable to anything on PSX
Why the fuck are you even typing this shit and trying to pass yourself as a fucking Nintencuck when MML is the best video game graphics wise of all time? It's how anime should naturally look in game form on default, and everything not like it is inferior.

[Anonymous No.8149517]

High latency memory and tiny texture cache
Lots of forced filtering in general
Most emulators have broken texture filtering

[Anonymous No.8149528]

>>8149508
it's true, if your game doesn't look like this you fucked up

[Anonymous No.8149529]

>>8149528
Reminder Nintendo considers right side to be canon

[Anonymous No.8149531]

>>8149528
Finally, another smart anon ITT
>>8149529
Nintendo is soulless now, like everyone else, what else is new? This is /vr/, know your place.

[Anonymous No.8149532]

>>8149529
wind waker HD is the most egregious visual downgrade i have ever seen. how fucking stupid do you have to be to ruin the best looking game ever

[Anonymous No.8149542]

>173 replies

[Anonymous No.8149598]

Blows marijuana smoke in your face

[Anonymous No.8149631]

>>8148647
The Playstation one is a pre-rendered video.

[Anonymous No.8149652]

>>8149631
The water part would be a better exemple then, it's quite common on the N64.

[Anonymous No.8149662]

>>8149529
The water looks better but everything else is vomit inducing, just terrible, specially the radiation blue bloom.

[Anonymous No.8149669]

Bilinear filtering and anti aliasing were seen as advanced fancy techniques in 97-99

It's only in recent years that "Le epic chunky chungus gamer 8-bit pixels Minecraft squares" has become the mainstream appeal

[Anonymous No.8149686]

>>8149000
Isn't Quake Saturn 20fps and Quake 64 30fps?

[Anonymous No.8149690]

>>8149350
>Couple of seconds
You mean like 10-30 seconds every few minutes right?

[Anonymous No.8149693]

>>8148306
Now post the one with graphical enhancements disabled so you get the full load of dithering, wiggling polygons and warping textures.

[Anonymous No.8149751]

>>8148269
Perfect Dark was such a good game but the frame rate killed it, especially multiplayer, it easily drops to 10 FPS.

[Anonymous No.8149762]

>>8147084
Play them witb an analogic input with a common crt

[Anonymous No.8149816]

>>8149693
>now focus on graphical fidelity and ignore art direction which is what the thread is all about
Gears of Wars > ICO

[Anonymous No.8149923]

>>8148351
>Why doesn't a single racing game on N64 looks as beautiful as Wipeout 3, RRT4, or Sega Rally? even the Wipeout and RR games for N64 look uglier than their 32-bit counterparts, despite looking "cleaner" and moving more polygons.
How about all of them? Every good and competent N64 racer (so no Carmageddon 64) looked better than Sega Rally. Sega Rally on the Saturn was great for a fundamentally 2D console like the Saturn. Comparing it to the likes of San Franscisco Rush 2049 on the N64 is absurd. It's true that the PS1 had good and popular racers as well like RR, GT, CM and they had really good career modes, for PS1 graphics they looked great. However N64 was known for a ton of great racing games - Beetle Racing, Top Gear Rally 64, F-Zero X, both the graphics and gameplay.

Your Wipeout 3 webm is not a real capture of a PS1 - it has 4 times the resolution of the PS1. It looks good but jaggy and not as good as F-Zero X, I can't really talk about Wipeout on the N64 since I've never played it (have to some day) but F-Zero X has always been considered significantly better so that's why I never bothered before. Here's some ACTUAL captured video (keeping in mind that actually captured video tends to actually look worse than the real thing).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3A4vsIovKo

Here's San Francisco 2049, the only reason why this wouldn't be ported to the playstation is that it couldn't handle it. Just look at all the detail flying past in it at breakneck speed - now admittedly it's not perfect and I prefer to play the dreamcast version just because it's that little bit more fluid, but I would have no problem playing the N64 version if that didn't exist, it pulls it off very well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAaLYce6xz0

Now here's a non-captured F-Zero X with higher resolution like your Wipout 3. Notice the fluidity and the extra detail. So please only post actual captured games in future.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tZC0J4Pwl0

[Anonymous No.8149935]

And I also never played RR for the N64 - it's funny how PS1 owners treat these games as mindblowing AAA games while N64 owners consider them just average, run-of-the-mill games compared to the selection of games they have. I doubt your claims they somehow look better on PS1.

[Anonymous No.8149936]

>>8148790
>>8148719
>>8148667
Why did nintendo bother with this SGI r&d if they were going to limit the console so hard in every way.they literally had the biggest success ever with the NES and SNES. Just take a slightly bigger hit on the console manufacturing cost jesus christ you total jews.
64 should have had it's expanded ram to start with and it should have used the 64dd magnetic discs to started with

[Anonymous No.8149938]

>>8148770
I like mega man 64 more than legends

[Anonymous No.8150018]

>>8149093
Is it a real thing? Like "you're being taken for a ride?"

[Anonymous No.8150032]

>>8149935
I didn't even know Ridge Racer was on N64.

[Anonymous No.8150036]

>>8149935
Damn, they had Rumble Roses for N64?

[Anonymous No.8150037]

N64 should have gotten crazy taxi

[Anonymous No.8150040]

What would Crash Bandicoot have looked like on N64?

[Anonymous No.8150042]

>>8149935
I love how you think RR64 is mediocre (without having played it, nonetheless) yet you cream your pants with F-Zero X because it has the Nintendo logo on it. Let me guess, you're one of those weirdos who also think X is better than GX because some misplaced sense of "soul" or something like that?

[Anonymous No.8150045]

everyone I know who grew up with a nintendo 64 became a pc gamer
Everyone I know from playstation is still on playstation and is tech illiterate

[Anonymous No.8150046]

>>8150045
cool anecdote bro

[Anonymous No.8150047]

>>8150042
>you have wrong opinion actually I'm right because I'm level headed and sane and wise you are silly
Why can't someone just like X more than ridge racer and GX

[Anonymous No.8150051]

>>8150040
Donald Duck: Going Quackers

[Anonymous No.8150052]

>>8150046
that's literally this entire thread

[Anonymous No.8150065]

>>8150047
>opinion
You're literally implying that a game you've never played isn't good. That's not opinion, that's pre-conceived bias. And yes, you can prefer X to GX, just be wary that the 90% that disagrees with you will think you're heavily biased towards Nintendo-developed products, which is the truth probably.

[Anonymous No.8150075]

>>8150042
I think it's mediocre because it's not Beetle Adventure Racing.

[Anonymous No.8150079]

>>8150065
Lol what makes you think I never played ridge racer or gx
>heavily biased towards nintendo dev projects
I didn't even know nintendo made x and didn't make gx until right now

[Anonymous No.8150081]

>>8150079
>Lol what makes you think I never played ridge racer or gx
>>8149935
>And I also never played RR for the N64
are you even the same anon I was replying to or are you getting triggered on purpose?

[Anonymous No.8150086]

>>8150081
How am I triggered? What?
Listen dude. I like X a lot. Nobody ever gives that game a chance I guess.

[Anonymous No.8150095]

My ignorant perspective, is I never played a Ridge Racer game because they look boring. I like racers with space ships in them.

[Anonymous No.8150096]

>>8150086
>I've never played RR for the N64
>hurr durr what makes you think I never played ridge racer
ok baito-kun, whatever, have what you crave.

[Anonymous No.8150107]

>>8150096
Haha am I the cat? That's cool. Man I want a burger. Wish I could be the cat lol

[Anonymous No.8150116]

>>8150096
That is a different guy, I'm the one who never played RR for the N64 (there's another anon above who didn't even know there was a RR for the N64 since it's always overshadowed by all the other great racers on it).

[Anonymous No.8150119]

>>8150116
>since it's always overshadowed by all the other great racers on it).
like? Other than F-Zero X and Beetle Adventure Racing, of course.

[Anonymous No.8150128]

>>8150119
Diddy kong and Mario jjsrt
Wave race 64
Pod racer
Cruise n
Rush
Zelda kart
Metroid
The uh list uh goes on...

[Anonymous No.8150131]

>>8150119
yes

[Anonymous No.8150163]

>>8148274
>but they're lacking that certain something that the N64 games had

Yeah, that you played them when you were young

[Anonymous No.8150171]

>>8150119
San Francisco Rush games, Cruis'n USA, Top Gear Rally 64, Mario Kart 64, Diddy Kong Racing, Extreme-G, Wave Race 64, Wipeout 64, F-Zero X c'mon you know N64 racers. Mickey Mouse Speedway, Lego Racers are also great games despite their suspicious sounding names. The likes of RR on the N64 falls into obscurity, not to say it's some bad game.

[Anonymous No.8150178]

Look at all these good racers:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/n64/category/47-racing

N64 was lacking in some genres, racing certainly wasn't one of them.

[Anonymous No.8150179]

>>8150163
why do people like you always come out of the woodwork to be proven wrong? Age has nothing to do with it. It's such a fallacy.

[Anonymous No.8150180]

>>8150163
Most original comment of all time. I was young when I played Wind Waker too.. It's not the same.

[Anonymous No.8150191]

>>8150040
Like this.

[Anonymous No.8150234]

>>8150191
Looks great

[Anonymous No.8151073]

>>8149938
Because you're a retarded fanboy

[Anonymous No.8151075]

>>8151073
I literally had a Playstation and not a Nintendo back then

[Anonymous No.8151106]

>>8149529
>ITT: virgins who've never been outside in summer

[Anonymous No.8151107]

>>8151106
Yeah, the right is better in everything except the grass colour.

[Anonymous No.8151113]

>>8151106
The shade of blue literally changes depending on latitude. And WW wasn't trying to mimick real life anyway.

[Anonymous No.8151228]

I played beetle adventure racing after seeing it being shilled in every nintendo 64 thread and its fucking shit, /vr/ was wrong once again

[Anonymous No.8151232]

>>8150178
It lacks realistic driving sims like Gran Turismo and Driver.

[Anonymous No.8151286]

>>8151232
What about Top Gear Rally and World Driver Championship

[Anonymous No.8151321]

>>8151286
Those are nice, but still not as good as GT where there are hundreds of customisable real world cars to choose from, and Driver which was the pinnacle of open ended getaway driving simulator with dozens of cars roaming on the screen and cops patrolling the streets.

[Anonymous No.8151802]

>>8151228
And how long did you play it for?

[Anonymous No.8151817]

>>8151228
What was so bad about it?

[Anonymous No.8151873]

>>8150032
it's an american ridge racer and it's not very good

[Anonymous No.8151879]

>>8151228
/vr/ has been wrong about every game except one in my experience.

[Anonymous No.8151904]

>>8151228
you hate fun

[Anonymous No.8151924]

>>8151904
>>8151817
>>8151802
>What was wrong about it
A lot, tracks are a mess and you're racing with beetle cars for gods sake. A beetle should be an unlockable joke car. It's clear you're zoomers who have never played real racers.

[Anonymous No.8151927]

>>8151924
*boring racers

[Anonymous No.8151934]

>>8151924
>muh Sega arcade racers are the only real racing games
What are your best times in Sega Rally?

[Anonymous No.8151935]

>>8151927
If Beetle racing were an arcade game it wouldn't make a dime.

[Anonymous No.8151939]

>>8151934
>Diddy Kong Racing is the GOAT racing game!!!
>Also, what are your speed running times???
Yikes

[Anonymous No.8151943]

>>8151935
Arcade gamers have no taste, clearly

[Anonymous No.8151945]

>>8151939
your track times you degenerate cock goblin

[Anonymous No.8151947]

>>8151939
I knew it was the same poser as last time. You tell other people they've never played a "real racer" when you don't even play the games yourself.

[Anonymous No.8151948]

>>8149693
Isn't that the point though? That's not hardware, that's screen resolution. If you emu'd a 64 game it still looks like blurry shit.

[Anonymous No.8151956]

>>8150045
Hmm, that's strange, the exact opposite happened to me and I program games today. Grew up with both, dropped both, hate Jewtendo, dislike CalSnoy.

Your headcanon is bullshit

[Anonymous No.8152125]

>>8151802
I wasted like 2 hours on that shit
>>8151817
The tracks are massive, this is cool because there are lots of hidden paths but 7 minutes in one three lap race is way too fucking much, doesn't help that most of the time you are going in a straight line. It wouldn't even be that bad if the mechanics weren't the simplest shit ever, its a boring game

[Anonymous No.8152132]

>>8152125
Why are you complaining that the races are long when there's so many hidden paths and the game is about exploring and racing? Besides, there's a place for racers with long laps, two minute racers are everywhere and can be played if you prefer that.

[Anonymous No.8152134]

>>8147084
>more powerful
It was a (bad) joke for toddlers.

[Anonymous No.8152143]

>>8148172
Wandering around in Drakkhen for SNES is more enjoyable than walking around in any N64 game. What is your point?

[Anonymous No.8152193]

>>8152143
>Drakkhen for SNES
It's better on the atari ST.

[Anonymous No.8152269]

>>8151956
Nintendo's great. Sony's the problem

[Anonymous No.8152312]

>>8152132
>Racing game
>Is about exploration
Anon please stop making excuses for this trash.

[Anonymous No.8152383]

Is there a name for this type of thing, where an object looks like its being lit by rainbow or some shit? i remember a lot of early 3D games doing it, and i kind of miss it

[Anonymous No.8152437]

>>8152269
Nintendo WAS great, fuck off zoomer.

[Anonymous No.8152439]

>>8152383
Iridescent

[Anonymous No.8152442]

>>8152193
No. The good music was a SNES thing.

[Anonymous No.8152459]

>>8152312
Adventure is literally in the name you Jewish nigger

[Anonymous No.8152506]

>>8147176
I get the same kinda feeling from Nanosaur and Bugdom

[Anonymous No.8152741]

>>8147084
Small texture sizes did it all.

[Anonymous No.8152757]

>>8152383
I can't seem to find a consistent name for it. Some places call it vertex shading, some call it vertex colouring, but from what I can gather is that colour values are assigned to individual vertices and the difference is blended across the adjoining polygons. If you've ever tried programming in OpenGL then you've doubtless seen some form of pic related before.

[Anonymous No.8152812]

>>8147084
The N64 had some great looking games, mainly ones done by Nintendo. Not all of the games were muddy looking shit from Midway.

Kirby 64 is probably one of the best looking on the system, manages to look really good even to this day due to its low-poly art style.
https://youtu.be/5uu2TWli-_M

[Anonymous No.8152885]

>>8151956
The switch is one of the best systems of all time, way fucking better than the N64. And no I'm not a zoomer. The N64 is bottom of the Nintendo barrel. There's like 10 64 games that hold up, and like 100 ps1 games that hold up. The switch had more good games than the entire 64 library within a month

[Anonymous No.8152897]

>>8152885
The switch has been a huge success and is doing Wii numbers in hardware and software on top of having the best third party support since the SNES for Nintendo but honestly Nintendo's 1st party output has been fucking trash. The first two years was good but they've slowed WAAAAAAAY the fuck down. They used to make enough games to support a handheld and console simultaneously, now they barely have a decent game every 3 months

[Anonymous No.8152905]

>>8152437
*was NEVER great

[Anonymous No.8152907]

>N64 is ugly
>Posts emulator screenshots

N64 is to be viewed on a CRT as Devs intended.

[Anonymous No.8153018]

>>8148981
>>8148982
>>8148987

N64 Quake had its levels extremely simplified and its number of textures slashed because the N64 couldn't handle it without doing so. It also has arcadey looking colored lighting added, as well as losing the Trent Reznor soundtrack.

Saturn Quake uses the Slavedriver engine, but the levels are extremely accurate to the PC originals, with the exception of the secret levels, which were replaced with original ones. It also has the original soundtrack.

tl;dr - N64 Quake sucks dick, Saturn Quake is the superior version.

[Anonymous No.8153032]

>>8152885
>>8152897
It's a total waste. I can't find any good games for it. And you're not retro

[Anonymous No.8153034]

>>8153018
>tl;dr - N64 Quake sucks dick, Saturn Quake is the superior version.
Kill yourself.

[Anonymous No.8153039]

>>8153034
u first lol

[Anonymous No.8153053]

>>8152897
Dude. Covid. It's not like anyone else is delivering any honeruns right now either.

[Anonymous No.8153057]

>>8153053
Fuck off. Modern games suck ass and you know it. Fuck indies too
This industry needs to crash and I refuse to ever support it.
I mail death threats to indie studios

[Anonymous No.8153094]

>>8153057
>>8153032
>>8153032
You bought it up bitch, i can't let it go now.

Alwas Awakening and Legacy
Anodyne 1 and 2
Astalon
Astral Chain
Axiom Verge
Bad North
Bayonetta 1-3
Banner of the Maid
Banner Saga
Blasphemous
Blazblue
Bloodstained curse 1 and 2
Blossom Tales
Book of demons
Cadence of Hyrule
Captain Toad
Carrion
Cosmic Star Heroine
Crash 4
Crosscode
Crown Trick
Crypt necro
Cuphead
Cyanide & Happiness
Cyber Shadow
Dead Cells
Dead in vinland
Dragons Dogma
Dragon Quest 3 remake
Dragon Quest 11
Dungeon of Naheulbeuk
Ender Lilies
Enter The Gungeon
Freedom Planet
Golf Story
Huntdown
Into the breach
Ion Fury
Katana zero
Kingdoms Amalur
Legend of Mana hd
Lethal League
Luigi's Mansion 3
Mario 3D world fury
Mario vs Rabbids
Mario Kart 8
Mega Man 11
Metroid Dread
Monster Sanctuary
New Mario U
Ni no kuni
One Step From Eden
Ori 1 and 2
Pool Panic
Sayonara Wild Hearts
Shadows of Adam
Shin Megami 5
Shovel Knight
Slay the spire
Sonic Mania
Sparklite
Star Renegades
Super Mario Odyssey
Smash 5
Tales vesperia
The Last Remnant
The LOTR TCG
The warlock of firetop mt
Throne breaker
Timespinner
Tower of time
Trails series
Trials of Mana remake
Trine 4
Valkyria Chronicles 4
Yokus Island
Ys Origin, 8, 9
Zelda BOTW
Zelda BOTW 2

[Anonymous No.8153098]

>>8152442
>The good music was a SNES thing
Granted Drakkhen for the ST/Amiga had no music. The SNES OST sounds underwhelming compared to the average ST/Amiga game though.

[Anonymous No.8153116]

>>8153094
These are bad to okay steam games. And I don't like botw. Some of these games are ten years old. Some are even over ten years old. This is a ridiculous post.

[Anonymous No.8153119]

>>8153094
the mana remake is total dogshit and helped me realize how overrated mana was

[Anonymous No.8153126]

>>8153094
>tfw I'm 20 and none of these appeal to me
who do they make video games for anymore? Is this what the kids are playing? retro stuff just seems so much better

[Anonymous No.8153276]

>>8153116
>>8153116
Nah. Those are fun dames i darn play on a fucking HAND HELD

Ps: kill yourself mod.

[Anonymous No.8153285]

>>8153018
That's nice but the Saturn port has terrible gameplay and is obviously the worse version as a result.

[Anonymous No.8153417]

>>8149072
The fat fuck probably just died.

[Anonymous No.8153472]

Those textures taken from pre-rendered models used by Rare aged like milk. Nowadays I can't stand how some parts of Banjo look.

[Anonymous No.8153485]

Sonyggers just can't help themselves.

[Anonymous No.8153495]

>>8153485
obsessed