/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.8133246]

Is Metal Gear Solid the smartest game ever made?

[Anonymous No.8133298]

>>8133246
yes

[Anonymous No.8133303]

Kojima is the David Cage of Japan

[Liquid Grid No.8133312]

What a pretentious twat.

[Anonymous No.8133328]

Kojima is the based of based. Basedjima? Yes, I'll have one.

[Anonymous No.8133367]

>>8133246
2 is, yes
It is also my #1 favorite game coincidentally

[Anonymous No.8133379]

>>8133312
i wouldn't have it any other way. who else would put a 20 minute cutscene of some dude frying eggs in their AAA game?

[Anonymous No.8133381]

>>8133379
That was just a tribute to the "this is your brain on crack" commercial. He also has a "winners don't use drugs" shirt.

[Anonymous No.8133643]

>>8133246
mgs2 is so up its own ass it's hilarious
i can still praise it for the player vs player character stuff, as well as predicting meme culture in 2001, but god

[Anonymous No.8133776]

>>8133246
>Is Metal Gear Solid the smartest game ever made?
Hyped up as the next gen realistic stealth action super game.
kill first enemy, can’t loot equipment.
dropped.

[Anonymous No.8133786]

>>8133246
>white whale

Why did he have to be race into this?

[Anonymous No.8133794]

>>8133246
>>8133298
Yes but not because of that hack, but mastermind Fukushima, you can tell because as soon as he dissapeared (MGS4) writing fucking plumeted

[Anonymous No.8133803]

>>8133643
>predicting meme culture in 2001
lol he directly quoted a Dawkins book

[Anonymous No.8133808]

>>8133246
It probably makes more sense in Japanese.

[Anonymous No.8133810]

>>8133246
I'm starting to believe the rumors that Kojima had very little to do with the storyline(s) of MG and took credit for a team of writers with real talent. He probably just popped in here amd there to add all the stupid shit sprinkled throughout the series.

Remember that Kojima resents his fan base as he intentionally duped everyone with MGS2. He knew exactly what fans wanted (the tanker levels), pretended like that's what he was giving us, then gave us pussy boi Raiden and bland level design. All the cool shit in that game toward the end was probably written by someone else.

[Anonymous No.8133818]

>>8133803
to provide historical context
then he went into describing how the internet will provide unprecendented information overload and how AI will determine which memes spread

[Anonymous No.8133830]

>>8133803
Even Dawkins didn't predict meme culture. It's been years since I read the selfish gene, but I remember the discussion focusing on multigenerational memes like religion, music, etc. Not the rapid proliferation and evolution of memes and their utility for social control in real time. Even more profound was how MGS2 predicted internet censorship. Back when the storyline was written, the internet was still incredibly free. At the time very few people could have guessed how things would be today. Again, I don't think Kojima was responsible for the most intelligent writing found in the MG series. He is way too blue pilled these days, especially for a Japanese man.

[Anonymous No.8133851]

>>8133246
in an unintentional way like deus ex? yes.

keep in mind that metal gear's story is an amalgamation of various movies & animes that kojima grew up watching.

so whatever nuance there might be in the writing is purely coincidental.

>>8133303
i'd say that david cage is more of the mirrorverse version of kojima.

cage's writing is dumb and tries too hard to be smart while kojima's writing sorta just stumbles into being smart with the power of hindsight.

[Anonymous No.8133863]

No, this is.

[Anonymous No.8133868]

>>8133863
people who don't own this game have 0 iq

[Anonymous No.8133885]

>>8133810
Ah, the contrarian 'it was good, but it can't be the popular guy who came up with it, it surely must be someone else'. Why do fans nowadays just try to find anyway to attack and superficially discredit the people who made everything, while they do nothing themselves? Show some respect to people who actually did something with their lives instead of pretending the janitor wrote MGS2 and everybody actually wanted to stay on the boat the whole game so Kojima 'betrayed' us by giving us one of the best games ever just because it's not exactly how you say it should be.

[Anonymous No.8133891]

>>8133885
probably because mgs5 exists and each mission credits the writer

[Anonymous No.8133895]

>>8133851
Expert analysis from the man who mastered dramatic spacing in his posts. Kojima has lots of influences and references them, so therefore nothing he did is original despite making games like we never saw before with a story we never saw before, and it's all coincidence because he's a 'hack', and the smart guy who watched the world go by from the safety of an anime forum is going to tell us all about it. Great insight into your wisdom acting like Kojima is any different from anyone else who live life and develop through what they experience.

[Anonymous No.8133914]

>>8133891
And you are speaking on the subject so you clearly know that the way writing works in games is that usually the creator lays out bullet points and the other guys fill in the dialogue and / or events, etc... right? They don't just do whatever they want or stray from the course, same way Final Fantasy games were thought up by the top guys in charge like Nomura, Sakaguchi, whoever, depending on the game and the other writers filled in around that? Same as anime like Evangelion all started from Anno and Sadamoto and the other guys wrote to meet their goals, and even the director of some parts, Tsurumaki, juat directs to around what Anno tells him to do? That's how Japanese teams works, and all this shit is translated as well so we aren't even seeing the original product when we're playing.

[Anonymous No.8133940]

>>8133914
mgs5 levels are basically episodes of the A-team. it's possible that kojima drafted every single one and let tamari or whoever fill in the blanks, but not necessarily true. there's no tight interlocking story between "snake walks into this base and fultons 30 people" and "there's 12 tanks here, snake fultons them"
in any case, the point is that kojima wrote all the ones where epic meta guy from mgs1 psychically pilots a gundam to try and kill a brainwashed meme-clone of big boss and the other writers wrote the ones where you sneak into a base

[Anonymous No.8133947]

>>8133885
>Ah, the contrarian 'it was good, but it can't be the popular guy who came up with it, it surely must be someone else'.
Coppola has made more shit movies than classic ones, therefore he's a hack. It's starting to look like Kojima is following that path. You cannot just be a genius for a brief period of time and a super hack for the majority of your lifetime.

[Anonymous No.8133972]

>>8133940
Yeah but let's be real, it's yet another modern game that they couldn't finish and there were the obvious main story parts and the rest, actually most of the missions, were fillers so they could put out a 'full game' by the deadline because they had no more time to buy and were over budget, same way FFXV was pushed out, and many Square games were rushed out like FFXII, Xenogears, FF8 to a lesser degree, etc... MGS5 maybe could have been great but we'll never know. As for Death Stranding I think it was made with the idea they can't do the huge story they usually do. That being said I think there still were great parts to all his games since MGS4 but modern tech may have been the biggest issue, we don't get many of these big, finished, and fleshed out games anymore. FFVIIR may be the best idea, to put out episodes. Beyond all that, Kojima made alot of games so he might not even have any ideas left compared to the stock he used to.

[Anonymous No.8133987]

>>8133885
>>8133895
>>8133914
are you a friend of kojima or something? i don't get why you're so defensive about all of this.

like seriously there's enough documentation on MGS2's development that debunks it being the "misunderstood masterpiece" that most of it's fanboys preach about it being and the series (and kojima himself) wears alot it's influences on it's sleeve.

>>8133940
>>8133972
the "filler" of MGS5 hold significance in the idea that you're basically seeing cipher's rise to power and inevitable transformation into the patriots.

almost all of the missions relate to cipher to some degree.

[Anonymous No.8133993]

>>8133947
That's not what I see as a hack. A hack would be, to me, someone who never was actually good and maybe got by with pure gimmick, luck or fraud. Kojima definitely made some of the best games ever, regardless if you want to credit the team around him more, the games with him at the helm were great. Doesn't have to mean everything you make ever has to be great. Tons of people put out some shitters or go to hell with time. Raimi made some stinkers then came back and kicked off the superhero shit with huge movies and maybe some of the best ones, Woody Allen reinvented comedy then put out a bunch of stinkers. Many bands fall off and can't do it anymore, including some of the best ever. MGS5, again, was an unfinished game, but there are plenty of great elements to it. If I had to name a 'hack' then it would be someone like Tarantino who doesn't just 'reference' his inspirations, he straight up copy-pastes everything and then denies he ever saw half of it. Wachowski's as well, they had one actual stand-out movie, almost all copied, then tried to be more original and fell to shit. In recent Kojima games there are still tons of great, new ideas, just the whole picture isn't there. Same as I would say FFXV and KH would be some of the greatest games in their 'genre' if they were fully finished.

[Anonymous No.8133998]

>>8133987
Just arguing my opinion. Not sure what you're trying to say with the rest of the post. I don't get the 'misunderstood' thing, I don't follow what internet people say about games besides coming here sometimes. I loved MGS2 and don't have any issues with it besides having to play all difficulties to get dogtags.

[Anonymous No.8134001]

>>8133885
>Ah, the contrarian 'it was good, but it can't be the popular guy who came up with it, it surely must be someone else'.
You're reading way too much into this. It's really very simple. If you have been following Kojima's Twitter and interviews, you will see that he is not a based and redpilled intellectual. He is a globohomo cog who desperately wants to be accepted into Hollywood. It's hard to believe someone like that could be responsible for the high points of the MG writing.

It's also no seceret that he has a team of writers and a massive ego, making it not a very big leap to assume he would take credit for the work of his underlings.

[Anonymous No.8134014]

>>8134001
I don't follow interviews and Twitter, so no idea. Not sure what the political talk here is about, last paragraph is conjecture attacking the guy who made great games, don't see any evidence it's true, and not everyone sees everything from the same viewpoint so I can't say he sees the issues the same as you and would purposefully be taking a leftist stance or whatever.

[Anonymous No.8134190]

>>8134014
>no idea
That's my point. You're making a lot of baseless assumptions about why people are not convinced that Kojima ever was (or at least still is) the genius mastermind behind the MG series without looking at the context of that skepticism. Yes, I could sit here and dig through his interviews and Twitter archives to point out things that I've seen over the last several years, but I won't because 1) it wouldn't be a good use of my time, 2) it wouldn't change any Kojima fanboys minds, 3) I wouldn't give a shit even if it did. If you're really all that interested, you could do the legwork yourself and see what you think about it.

Personally, I was a Kojima fanboy since MGS1. MGS1 and MGS2 are some of my top favorite games of all time in spite of the Raiden bait and switch bullshit (parts of MGS4 was almost certainly an apology for betraying fans with MGS2, but I won't go into that here). All that said, I'm less and less convinced that all or even most of the credit for the brilliant parts of the MG series should be credited to Kojima. My own summation of what from what he has been saying over the last several years is that he is saying what he thinks he needs to say in order to be accepted by Hollywood and is no longer that creative genius who was paving the way for his own version of "Hollywood" in the games industry, and perhaps never really was.

[Anonymous No.8134950]

>>8133818
Considering the book was written 20 years before the internet it's easy to see how you can extrapolate it's theories unto new mass communication mediums

[Anonymous No.8134954]

>>8133246
Kojima is a retard, and his games after MGS1 suck.

[Anonymous No.8134991]

>"Dude, what if we ripped off Blade Runner and made a game out of it"
>*lets everyone else do the actual work that makes the game good*
And retarded journos desperate from acceptation from other mediums try to make rockstars out of absolute hacks

[Anonymous No.8137421]

>>8134950
> it's easy to see how you can extrapolate it's theories unto new mass communication mediums
If it was easy, surely more people made similar predictions. But, you can't name any, because you're a brainlet talking out of his ass

[Anonymous No.8138624]

TIP: If you're never-endingly impressed with how smart you are for loving MGS2, ie Baby's First Twists And Pseud Theorizing, you are absolutely nowhere near as intelligent as you think you are.

[Anonymous No.8138949]

>>8138624
You just didn’t get it maaaan

[Anonymous No.8139137]

>>8133643
Internet memes were not predicted by memetics
Pic related isn't what Richard Dawkins thought of when he said "ideas are like genes in that they are subject to evolutionary pressures and may be passed on and mutated just like genes"

[Anonymous No.8139198]

>>8133246
that fat gimli looking retard was right when he said mgs1 is the only good one

[Anonymous No.8139202]

>>8133246
He had me until that last word
top lel

[Anonymous No.8139273]

>>8137421
Cyberia by Douglas Rushkoff (1994)
https://www.elon.edu/u/imagining/expert_predictions/chapter-18-may-the-best-meme-win/

[Anonymous No.8139506]

Kojima claims to be....
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ThutNUSMDfY

[Anonymous No.8139526]

>>8133776
Filtered

Mgs2 graphics were and still are amazing.

[Anonymous No.8139750]

>>8133993
>Raimi made some stinkers then came back and kicked off the superhero shit with huge movies
What pre-Spider-Man 1 Raimi movie is bad?

[Anonymous No.8139784]

>>8139137
the word meme isn't even what people really discuss, it's the large amount of worthless digital information described by the colonel and rose when they're describing Selection for Societal Sanity

[Anonymous No.8139804]

>>8133246
>Didn't put mgs1 on n64
>didn't put mgs2 on dreamcast
Fuck you hideo Kojma!! Lose arm!!!

[Anonymous No.8139825]

>>8133851
>kojima's writing sorta just stumbles into being smart with the power of hindsight

No, it doesn't. It's some of the worst writing ever.

[Anonymous No.8139834]

The only kojima game I enjoyed wa shis most recent one

[Anonymous No.8140020]

>>8139273
This vague quote from an author you never even heard of until you did a google search just before posting the link doesn't prove anything. Nothing in it relates to social media, or the curation of information by AI. In fact, AI isn't even mentioned. Please refrain from such low effort replies in the future and perhaps fuck off from this site entirely

[Anonymous No.8140021]

>>8133246
It's one of the dumbest, but it's a midwit trap.

[Anonymous No.8140087]

>>8133246
Damn, Pinnochio is interpreted like THAT?

[Anonymous No.8140185]

>>8133246
>vomiting through the anus
He's finally becoming the shart he always dreamed to be.

[Anonymous No.8140849]

>>8139137
dawkins is kind of a dipshit and thinks DNA is both sentient and smarter than us
memetic theory has evolved over time, as has the word meme, but it's useful to trace the history to understand how christianity and pepe are both memes
perhaps you could say memes have been "subject to evolutionary pressures and may be passed on and mutated"
all of this is base level as fuck though and i'm sure you knew it already. the interesting part is how mgs2 looks at technology affecting the spread and mutation of memes
>machine learning memes
Otacon: I think it means -- you've been talking to an AI.
Raiden: That's impossible!
Otacon: The Colonel probably isn't GW per se.
GW was most likely stimulating cortical activity in the dormant part of your brain
through signal manipulation of your own nanomachines.
The Colonel is in part your own creation, cobbled together from expectations and experience...
>how memes shape american culture and national identity
Colonel: To begin with -- we're not what you'd call -- human.
Over the past two hundred years --
A kind of consciousness formed layer by layer in the crucible of the White House.
It's not unlike the way life started in the oceans four billion years ago.
The White House was our primordial soup, a base of evolution --
We are formless. We are the very discipline and morality that Americans invoke so often.
How can anyone hope to eliminate us? As long as this nation exists, so will we.
Raiden: Cut the crap! If you're immortal, why would you take away individual freedoms and censor the Net?

[Anonymous No.8140876]

>>8140849
>the most interesting and relevant imo: AI determining which memes are spread as a method of influencing public opinion and atititudes
Colonel: But in the current, digitized world,
trivial information is accumulating every second, preserved in all its triteness.
Never fading, always accessible.
Rose: Rumors about petty issues, misinterpretations, slander...
Colonel: All this junk data preserved in an unfiltered state, growing at an alarming rate. [. . .] Raiden, you seem to think that our plan is one of censorship.
>how online forums promote radicalization and devalue dissenting opinion
Rose: What we propose to do is not to control content, but to create context.
Colonel: The digital society furthers human flaws and selectively rewards
development of convenient half-truths.
Just look at the strange juxtapositions of morality around you.
Rose: Billions spent on new weapons in order to humanely murder other humans.
Colonel: Rights of criminals are given more respect than the privacy of their victims.
Rose: Although there are people suffering in poverty, huge donations are made to protect endangered species.
Everyone grows up being told the same thing.
Colonel: Be nice to other people.
Rose: But beat out the competition!
Colonel: "You're special." "Believe in yourself and you will succeed."
Rose: But it's obvious from the start that only a few can succeed...
Colonel: You exercise your right to "freedom" and this is the result.
All rhetoric to avoid conflict and protect each other from hurt.
The untested truths spun by different interests continue to churn and accumulate
in the sandbox of political correctness and value systems.
Rose: Everyone withdraws into their own small gated community, afraid of a larger forum.
They stay inside their little ponds,
leaking whatever "truth" suits them into the growing cesspool of society at large.
Colonel: The different cardinal truths neither clash nor mesh.
No one is invalidated, but nobody is right.

[Anonymous No.8140891]

>>8139137
>Internet memes were not predicted by memetics
When Dawkins wrote about memes it was the 70s retard. He described a pattern not internet memes because the internet was still 20 year from being invented and 30 from becoming popular and mainstream.

[Anonymous No.8140897]

>be westaboo nerd
>be infatuated with american 80s action flicks
>strike gold and make a few games that the gaijin like
>keep up the act while also pretending not to lust after celebrity gaijin dick
in fairness, mads mikkelsen is handsome

[Anonymous No.8140906]

>>8140876
>people forming their identities around the standards of internet communities to recieve instant validation
Colonel: That which you call "self" serves as nothing more than a mask to cover your own being.
Rose: In this era of ready-made 'truths',
"self" is just something used to preserve those positive emotions that you occasionally feel...
Colonel: ...Another possibility is that "self" is a concept you conveniently borrowed under the logic
that it would endow you with some sense of strength...

Rose: Jack, you're simply the best! And you got there all by yourself!
Raiden: Rrrr...
Colonel: Oh, what happened? Do you feel lost? Why not try a bit of soul-searching?

Colonel: In denial, you simply resort to looking for another,
more convenient "truth" in order to make yourself feel better.
Rose: ...leaving behind in an instant the so-called "truth" you once embraced.
Colonel: Should someone like that be able to decide what is "truth"?
Rose: Should someone like you even have the right to decide?
>how the ability to upload content means everyone has a platform (especially people who shouldn't)
Rose: The individual is supposed to be weak. But far from powerless --
-- a single person has the potential to ruin the world.
Colonel: And the age of digitized communication has given even more power to the individual.
Too much power for an immature species.
Rose: Building a legacy involves figuring out what is wanted, and what needs to be done for that goal.
All this, you used to struggle with. Now, we think for you.
Colonel: We are your guardians after all.
Raiden: You want to control human thought? Human behavior?
Colonel: Of course. Anything can be quantified nowadays.

i'm not claiming this is some genius world-shaking Truth. anyone can sound convincing when they drop "self" and "information" and "values" repeatedly in vague terms
but i think it's valuable to consider what people in 2001 thought about the power of social media, and mgs2 is a non-stop assault on it

[Anonymous No.8141226]

>>8133794
>Fukushima
This meme's been disproven.
https://thearkhound.tumblr.com/post/621110980547641344/tomokazu-fukushimas-role-in-metal-gear-solid-1

[Anonymous No.8141325]

>>8140020
i read the book when i was a teenager because the club "cyberia" in lain is named after it. he discusses it extensively in the book. kys

[Anonymous No.8141396]

>>8140891
It was the same shit back then as it is today. Watch Network and pretend it's not about television but the internet. Mass wide communication was the tipping point to understanding the proliferation of content and how it could be used to manipulate people. It's not really a new idea, Kojima just made it very interesting for young audiences in a modern setting that used an infant medium (vydia) that had yet to play around with these ideas.

[Anonymous No.8141428]

>>8141226
At the very least, Fukushima heavily contributed to the quality of writing as it's evidenced by MGS1 and MGS2 scripts and MGS3 codec calls. I wouldn't say he was the architect of the conceptual ideas Kojima messed around but he was surely responsible for the success in presentation them (SENSE was dogshit in contrast with GENE, MEME and SCENE). Also the dialogue and the characters were much better written in the first two games.

[Anonymous No.8141431]

>>8140020
>Nothing in it relates to social media, or the curation of information by AI.
Nothing Dawkins said in the Selfish Gene relates to that either.

[Anonymous No.8141527]

>>8141428
The Fukushima meme is just cope from people who grew to dislike Kojima, but still want to like the MGS games.
>SENSE was dogshit in contrast with GENE, MEME and SCENE
Sense made more sense in the Japanese version.
For one thing. Ocelot's catchphrase is いいセンスだ!

[Anonymous No.8141648]

>>8141325
>i read the book
and yet you still didn't post any relevant passages

>>8141431
no, and that's my point, it was impressive that the plot of MGS2 predicted the future we're living in now. Who else, prior to 2001, not only predicted that automated systems would curate information but also the moral justifications of such systems?

For what it's worth, I've been posting above about how I am not convinced that Kojima was the creative genius behind the best parts of the writing in the MG series. Nontheless, there was a lot of very impressive material within the MG lore. People who want to say otherwise are simply being cunty little contrarian hipsters. Yes, MG has a lot of bullshit, but there is also a lot of a brilliance.

[Anonymous No.8141691]

>>8141648
>For what it's worth, I've been posting above about how I am not convinced that Kojima was the creative genius behind the best parts of the writing in the MG series.
From some of the interviews that's been translated in the above blog (there's also a few interviews related to Ghost Babel), Fukushima doesn't really come off as that much of a creative genius as the memers tried to pass him off. He seems like someone who was just trying to follow Kojima's style a bit too much. It doesn't help that his post-Konami credits are all just QA stuff at Sony. Also, Shinkawa apparently didn't get along with Fukushima.

[Anonymous No.8141729]

>>8133246
proponents of the VR theory BTFO yet again

[Anonymous No.8141826]

>tfw too smart to make a game with a comprehensible story and more than half an hour of meaningful gameplay

[Anonymous No.8141831]

Christians have a DUTY to resist tyranny, NOT submit to It

[Anonymous No.8141838]

>>8141527
There's nothing to dislike about Kojima, IMO. The man had already made his opus magnum and wanted to pass on the series to a new generation of developers. He even made a game directed at them. I think a lot of what Kojima did with MGS4 was out of spite to the fanbase who kept insisting on the wrong things (of whatever Kojima tried to convey with his previous games) with gameplay being the only effort on his behalf and more experimental to understand what could be done in the next generation of consoles. I think Kojima just became cynical and cattered to that retarded fanbase he really hated with everything related to MGS that followed in exchange for getting filthy rich.

>>8141648
While I certainly don't think Kojima was that big-brain for predicting the future - I think it's evident that he is a very cultured man who had a profund understanding of many social concepts and the way technology impacted (or was impacted) by them - I was more surprised the way he engaged the medium. I'm certainly you can come up with other examples (and perhaps many much better than these) but he tore vydia apart in the same way Scream had done for the horror genre or the same way Neon Genesis Evangelion had done for mecha (and anime, in general). It's crazy how he manages to craft this great story and narrative while messing up as much as he can the perception and expectations of playing videogames (and their sequels).

>>8141729
That was always a retarded theory and it just diminishes the strengths of what MGS2 sets out to do.

[Anonymous No.8141875]

>>8140906
>Rose: The individual is supposed to be weak. But far from powerless ---- a single person has the potential to ruin the world.
I've played the game many, many times but this line suddenly reminded me of that brony American autist who was described as having caused huge amounts of damage to the Scots language just by editing a wiki.

[Anonymous No.8141928]

>MGS 2 is really about being shit out of a whale's anus
How did I miss this?

[Anonymous No.8143656]

Is MGS1 VR worth playing? I played MGS for the first time recently but wasn't really drawn in by the gameplay compared to how expanded and engaging it felt in MGS2.

[Anonymous No.8143736]

>>8143656
worth it if you enjoyed the gameplay and VR missions from the MGS. A nice pay off is being able to play as cyborg ninja

[Anonymous No.8144259]

>>8143656
Of course. VR Missions are peak gameplay (besides Big Boss rankings attempts).

[Anonymous No.8144294]

>>8140849
>dawkins is kind of a dipshit and thinks DNA is both sentient and smarter
This is completely wrong. Towards the beginning of The Selfish Gene, he actually addresses this potential misconception that he knew some people would be stupid enough to make. You sound like someone who has never actually read Dawkins and is instead repeating a criticism you heard from someone else with a brain as smooth as yours.

[Anonymous No.8144658]

>>8144294
i thought it was possible that i missed or misremembered some passage where he says genes are not literally acting in their own self-interest, they are simply the by-product of random selection over time in a logical system.
so i read the prefaces and first few chapters. now i think it is impossible to have read through this book and come out of it thinking "the selfish gene" is meant metaphorically.
>It is no good taking the right number of atoms and shaking them together with some external energy till they happen to fall into the right pattern, and out drops Adam! You may make a molecule consisting of a few dozen atoms like that, but a man consists of over a thousand million million million million atoms. To try to make a man, you would have to work at your biochemical cocktail-shaker for a period so long that the entire age of the universe would seem like an eye-blink, and even then you would not succeed. This is where Darwin's theory, in its most general form, comes to the rescue.
>Was there to be any end to the gradual improvement in the techniques and artifices used by the replicators to ensure their own continuation in the world? There would be plenty of time for improvement. What weird engines of self-preservation would the millennia bring forth? Four thousand million years on, what was to be the fate of the ancient replicators? They did not die out, for they are past masters of the survival arts. But do not look for them floating loose in the sea; they gave up that cavalier freedom long ago. Now they swarm in huge colonies, safe inside gigantic lumbering robots, sealed off from the outside world, communicating with it by tortuous indirect routes, manipulating it by remote control. They are in you and in me; they created us, body and mind; and their preservation is the ultimate rationale for our existence. They have come a long way, those replicators. Now they go by the name of genes, and we are their survival machines.

[Anonymous No.8145136]

>>8143656
lol nevermind, the games shop that had a disc copy for $10 must have sold it recently.

[Anonymous No.8145137]

>>8144658
Now I'm 100% convinced you haven't actually read the book. Nobody can be that autistic. You cherry picked a passage that doesn't even support your argument. I'm not even a huge Dawkins fan myself, and it feels strange even being in a position where I am defending his work--but your criticisms are completely baseless. Having actually read the book, I could spend the next 10 minutes grabbing my copy off the shelf and thumbing through it until I find the part where he specifically addresses smoothbrains like you, and then come back here and transcribe it in a post for you. But, I won't. For one, your eyes would be glazed over, mouth gaping open with retard drool dripping all over your keyboard before you could finish reading the first paragraph. Second, I'm here to talk video games, so fuck off regardless.

[Anonymous No.8146742]

colonel… what’s page 10 doing here?!

[Anonymous No.8147010]

>>8141826
lol

[Anonymous No.8147048]

>>8133246
>Is Metal Gear Solid the smartest game ever made?

[Anonymous No.8147054]

>>8147048
But which is more fun to play?

[Anonymous No.8147061]

>>8147054
thief

[Anonymous No.8147143]

>>8133246
Yes

[Anonymous No.8147156]

>>8147054
MGS

[Anonymous No.8147423]

>>8147054
Hard to say. Very different games and stealth is implemented very differently. I played MGS when it was new and several times since then, whereas I've only recently played a little bit of Thief (GOG version). Arguably, the "stealth" in MGS boils down to making sure your little dot on the mini map doesn't bump into any of the blue cones. If "stealth" gameplay is all you're after, then Thief is probably the way to go. That said, MGS also has a lot of other cool shit going for it.

Yes, MGS has much more linear level design but that isn't necessarily a flaw. It allows for very "tight" gameplay. Thief levels are much more "open" and allow for different ways to complete each level. It depends which style you prefer, and both styles are done well in each game.