Quake

[Anonymous No.8091774]

>better than Doom
How did they do it

[Anonymous No.8091781]

Proper 3D rendering and movement.

[Anonymous No.8091807]

>is unfinished and confused in your path

[Anonymous No.8091808]

>>8091774
by copying Doom in 3D

[Anonymous No.8091818]

I don't know why but I enjoy the N64 version of this game significantly more than the PC release

[Anonymous No.8091825]

>>8091807
Are you talking about your thought process?

[Anonymous No.8091828]

It's not though.

>some later maps are shit
>some enemies are really shit (spawns)
>boss battles are shit
>very very unsatisfying and shit ending/"battle"
>actually looks worse with 3D acceleration
>not enough enemy variety
>not enough weapons variety
>NIN soundtrack is over rated and forgettable

[Anonymous No.8091829]

>>8091825
fuck off romero you lazy ass

[Anonymous No.8091835]

Episode 1 is pretty good, after that the best thing about Quake is Scourge of Armagon

[Anonymous No.8091865]

>>8091828
You're 100% a software fag and are biased and probably think EVERY game looks worse in hardware.

[Anonymous No.8091867]

It's not. The weapons are godawful.

[Anonymous No.8091873]

>>8091867
LG>anything from Doom

[Anonymous No.8091939]

>>8091828
>some later maps are shit
Same for Doom
>some enemies are really shit (spawns)
Lost Souls
>boss battles are shit
Same as Doom
>very very unsatisfying and shit ending/"battle"
It's more of a boss battle than either Doom ever had
>actually looks worse with 3D acceleration
Factually incorrect, opinion discarded
>not enough enemy variety
Too much enemy variety is one of the classic criticisms against Quake
>not enough weapons variety
Has exactly as much variety as Doom does
>NIN soundtrack is over rated and forgettable
At least they actually paid someone to compose some original music instead of plagiarized metal riffs

[Anonymous No.8091947]

>>8091828
>>some enemies are really shit
you must have never played Doom II

[Anonymous No.8091950]

>>8091939
>It's more of a boss battle than either Doom ever had
shub-niggurath does nothing. nothing at all. it does not even summon enemies. it just stands there. how can something that does nothing be a battle. fuck off

[Anonymous No.8091970]

>>8091939
>>actually looks worse with 3D acceleration
>Factually incorrect, opinion discarded
I was with you until this.

[Anonymous No.8092069]

>>8091939
>At least they actually paid someone to compose some original music instead of plagiarized metal riffs

I'm all for something that's not "metal riffs" but outside of the intro track, the soundtrack feels like Reznor recorded himself pushing random keyboard keys, called it quit on the first cuts, and used the money for a quick coke purchase which is what he was into at the time

It's very lazy, un-inspired and un-structurated and I'm probably not far from the truth

[Anonymous No.8092086]

>>8091950
>niggurath
racism much lol???

[Anonymous No.8092114]

>>8092086
It's better because Shub Niggurath is straight from Lovecraft.
It's one of the "old ones".

[Anonymous No.8092176]

>>8091774
Better theming

[Anonymous No.8092185]

>>8092176
Weird you say this considering Quakes themeing never reached its ideal potential. It never went full medieval like it wanted to.

[Anonymous No.8092191]

>>8092185
>It never went full medieval like it wanted to.
Have you even played Quake?

[Anonymous No.8092203]

>>8092191
Not like that, anon. I said FULL medieval. The game was supposed to be completely melee-centered.

[Anonymous No.8092283]

And Quake II is even better!

[Anonymous No.8092295]

>>8092283
Let’s not get crazy

[Anonymous No.8092310]

>>8092185
>Weird you say this considering Quakes themeing never reached its ideal potential
That's part of what seals the deal for me with it's current implementation.

[Anonymous No.8092314]

>>8092295
I just have no idea where the meme that Quake I was so much better came from. Quake II has actual level design and enemies with attack patterns beyond tard rushing you. I love the first Quake, but "muh Lovecraft" and "muh nailgun" only take a game so far.

[Anonymous No.8092315]

>>8091774
a single screen in doom have more colours than the entirety of quake

[Anonymous No.8092318]

>>8092314
>I just have no idea where the meme that Quake I was so much better came from
Even timescaled I just don't have as much fun shooting and moving around as I do in Q1, and I don't like the weapons as much especially with the slower switching. The enemy roster is cool but they don't do much more different than in Q1, AI is still pretty basic and a lot of it feels preference (vore projectiles, or instant gladiator rails? Choose your poison).

[Anonymous No.8092391]

Quake has shittier guns, bulletsponge enemies and shittier music than Doom.

[Anonymous No.8092396]

>>8092314
I do enjoy playing Q2 more than 1 mostly thanks to the level design, but it's kind of a slog to play at times. It's slow and enemies are spongy

[Anonymous No.8092430]

>>8092315
>muh colours
who gives a shit? and doom 2 was all brown, more so that quake is.

[Anonymous No.8092434]

>>8092318
>>8092396
Good point that Quake II is a fair bit slower, so I could understand that being an issue. These games really require snappy movement. But I think it's within the level of tolerance such that I never feel like I can't respond quickly enough to what the game throws at me.

[Anonymous No.8092449]

>>8092430
Quake doesn't have cacos. These colorful twats with their colorful corpses are responsible for a lot of Doom's "color" I feel.
I otherwise find the 'brown meme' overblown for Quake, seems a lot of people think "not fully saturated = BROWN".
>>8092434
Timescale helps with the games' speed, 1.2 felt pretty good for me. It just doesn't do anything to address the switching and the way they've balanced their guns.

[Anonymous No.8092478]

>>8091774
awful game that was very clearly thrown together. basically one big tech demo

[Anonymous No.8092518]

>>8091774
it should be better than doom since it's the same team doing the same thing in 3D
the weapons kind of suck though. far too much redundancy and nothing as interesting as the BFG. terrible level design too. there's no landmarks or interesting sections anywhere and all you ever do is kill ogres

[Anonymous No.8092654]

>>8091865
Modern sourceports looks better, but the original GLQuake lacked fullbrights and waterwarp.

[Anonymous No.8092720]

>>8092518
>far too much redundancy and nothing as interesting as the BFG.
Doom runs into the same issue with redundancy in the BFG becoming a roundabout shotgun. It’s delayed blast where you have to stay facing the same direction is certainly “interesting”, but so is Quake’s decision at giving the lightning gun it’s own ammo pool so it’s plasma rifle equivalent isn’t overwritten.

[Anonymous No.8092748]

>>8092069
You are talking crazy, Parallel dimensions alone elevate Quake soundtrack into upper echelon for me, every track feels right at home. Only piece of music that I don't like in the whole game is main theme.

[Anonymous No.8092930]

Literally any other mayor 90's FPS is better than Doom.
Doom is reddit.

[Anonymous No.8092936]

>>8092930
hail to the king, baby

[Anonymous No.8093086]

>>8092930
This isn't completely wrong.

[Anonymous No.8093120]

>>8091774
Episode 4 sucks ass.

[Anonymous No.8093148]

>>8093120
This series of locations look strangely cozy despite what they're supposed to represent

[Anonymous No.8093187]

>>8093120
>Redditbob
Go back

[Anonymous No.8093202]

>>8093148
episode 4 is the best at looking like functional buildings or living spaces
miserable to play though, and not just because of the slimes

[Anonymous No.8093216]

>>8093187
Go back to /v/.

[Anonymous No.8093343]

>>8093120
no, you suck

[Anonymous No.8093375]

>>8092391
>bulletsponge enemies

Yeah, because Doom certainly doesn't have barons, hellknights, and mancubuses. Everything except the Shambler dies in three rockets or less in Quake, moron.

[Anonymous No.8093382]

>>8091950
>it does not even summon enemies.
You know how I know you didn't play the game?

[Anonymous No.8093412]

>>8091818
Same. I picked it up as a meme thinking it wouldn't be as good but it would be worth popping in a few times. I've come to love the colors and lighting a lot more than the PC version, and the 64 controller feels so comfy to play FPS games on. I don't even start up the PC version these days.

[Anonymous No.8093421]

>>8093382
it does not, you stupid shit. all monsters teleporting in that level are triggered by player movement and it does not go above the initial count. fuck off

[Anonymous No.8093425]

>>8093421
The faster you are, the less enemies spawn. You'd know that if you actually finished that fight more than once.

[Anonymous No.8093429]

>>8093425
kill yourself

[Anonymous No.8093450]

played Quake on pic related back in the 90s, had to aim with the touch pad. I really sucked at the game and couldn't complete some levels but I was blown away by the graphics. I loved that I could play the game while listening to a CD

[Anonymous No.8093614]

Are shamblers a better top-dog enemy than cyberdemons?

[Anonymous No.8093629]

>>8093375
>Miniboss characters are tough
No fucking shit, you dumb nigger. Every enemy in Quake takes more shots to die than Doom's.

[Anonymous No.8093642]

>>8093629
technically yes but your weapons also fire faster and the campaign has you drowning in quad damage

[Anonymous No.8093660]

>>8093642
>your weapons also fire faster
And are also weaker. I'd rather have an SSG that fires slower and hits harder than one that fires as fast as a normal shotgun but deals even less damage because of the ridiculous spread. There's a reason why people fondly remember Doom's weapons but not Quake's.

[Anonymous No.8093781]

>>8093629
>Every enemy in Quake takes more shots to die than Doom's.
Just the enforcers for the most part, but they're nearly exclusive to the start of each episode and they're not causing anyone to tear their hair out. Death knights are dying in 5-6 super shotty rounds, same as barons in Doom. Similarly barons will take 5-6 rocket blasts, but in Quake death knights take 3. Launcher damage isn't comparable to a super shotty this time around, it's basically double. 3-4 rockets is the standard for most enemies, as was the case for many of Dooms'.
This is hard to notice because the enemies in Quake don't let you fuck them like most of the ones will let you in Doom.

[Anonymous No.8093962]

>>8093660
>And are also weaker. I'd rather have an SSG that fires slower and hits harder than one that fires as fast as a normal shotgun but deals even less damage because of the ridiculous spread. There's a reason why people fondly remember Doom's weapons but not Quake's.
Not necessarily that much weaker, just different. For instance the SSG in Quake isn't the same almost universal powerhouse as in Doom, but more situational and monster-specific. In Quake the universally useful weapons are probably the grenade and rocket launcher (gotta switch for Shamblers, though). Super nailgun and thunderbolt too, though those chew through their ammo pools fast.
In Quake you gotta switch weapons around more than in Doom to suit the monsters you're fighting and the range you're engaging them at. With the right weapon choices you'll rip right through the enemies in no time. Choose poorly and it can be a slog.

[Anonymous No.8094538]

>>8091807
That’s Doom 2

[Anonymous No.8094735]

What's the NIN album that sounds the closest to Quake? Broken?

[Anonymous No.8094791]

>>8094735
>What's the NIN album that sounds the closest to this dark ambient album? Maybe the one album that is as far away as you can get from dark ambient instead of the 2 dark ambient albums that were released by NIN?

[Anonymous No.8094795]

>>8094791
Last sounds like the Quake theme to me.

[Anonymous No.8094810]

>>8094795
The Quake Theme is only 1/10th of the whole soundtrack and the "Last" segment only lasts for about 1/5th of the song.
Anyway, the answer is Ghosts I-IV, but more specifically Ghosts V-VI.

[Anonymous No.8094945]

>>8091774
The enemies were boring bullet sponges. It was a tech demo that paved the way for the greatness that is Quack II & III, so it has that going for it.

[Anonymous No.8095258]

>>8093614
I don't feel so. If anything, Cyberdemons can be used much more versatilely and they don't immediately halt the flow of gameplay, whereas Shamblers are more of a one-trick pony. If you come across one and they're in range, they pretty much demand immediate attention with their charge-up, can't-miss hitscan attack.

[Anonymous No.8095427]

>>8091947
Not him, but all of Doom 2's additional monsters were great and provided much needed layers to the otherwise basic gameplay loop of Doom 1. Even the Hell Knight, the most boring addition, was basically a less shit version of the Baron.

[Anonymous No.8095463]

>>8094735
Ghosts series for sure. Downward Spiral and The Fragile have a few ambient-ish tracks at times, too that could fit, but not the albums on a whole.

[Anonymous No.8095495]

>>8095427
My point is that you can't call Quake's monsters shit when they're pretty much on-par with Doom II's
Hell the Vore is literally the Revenant and the Shambler is the Archvile without the healing

[Anonymous No.8095515]

>Wolfenstein 3D was going to be a social stealth game with disguises like Hitman or Death to Spies
ehh, we'll just make it a simple shooter and call it a day
>Doom was going to be a robust action-adventure game with character progression and immersive sim elements, almost like Deus Ex or System Shock
ehh, we'll just make it a simple shooter and call it a day
>Quake was going to be an action RPG with magic, hub worlds and branching questlines
ehh, we'll just make it a simple shooter and call it a day

[Anonymous No.8095517]

>>8095427
>Even the Hell Knight, the most boring addition, was basically a less shit version of the Baron.
The fixed version. Baron's aren't shit, they were just way too tanky for use as a more common enemy. The knight is the nice middle ground between the imp and the baron - hits harder than the imp but goes down faster than the baron.

[Anonymous No.8095536]

>>8095515
And none of these would have been as good or big as "simple shooters"

also
>was going to be
>was supposed to be

People phrasing it like that are stupid and have no idea how it works. It's normal to have ideas, ideas are the easy part, and everyone can throw them around. Because one or two persons in the studio throw ideas around doesn't mean "it was going/supposed" to be. Hundreds and hundreds of ideas are thrown and only a few are ever man, because you heard of one of those ideas in an interview means jack shit.

[Anonymous No.8095568]

>>8095515
Carmack was a programming genius but a pleb when it came to art
Tom Hall was a naive fool
Romero was an easy-going meathead

The technician won in the end.

[Anonymous No.8095572]

>>8095495
>Shambler is the Archvile without the healing
I don't think the Shambler is on-par with Arch-vile. Not only do they lack the resurrecting (as you mention), they also are bulkier, relatively slower, and their thunderbolt attack isn't nearly as deadly as the Arch-vile flame explosion.

[Anonymous No.8095642]

>>8091818
>>8093412
Based. I think the Quake 64 music is better and also they cut down some of the longest parts in a few maps - could have been for technical reasons but they knew what they were doing as it feels like a tighter cut. There's also something about playing the same game the exact same way as I did when I was 11 years old. PC version is great as well, if only you could add extra maps to the N64 version.

[Anonymous No.8095856]

>>8095515
Based.

Fuck bloat.

[Anonymous No.8095885]

>>8092069
Reznor dun gud.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=O4H5h-oHvuo

[Anonymous No.8095964]

>>8095642
Even on the garbage hand me down pc I played quake on as a kid, the resolution and animations were better than the N64. N64 port is fine, certainly better than the unplayable Saturn port that gets hyped for no reason, but its pretty much objectively worse than the PC even on a relatively weak machine.

[Anonymous No.8096127]

>>8091774
>Better than a 7.5/10
WOAH

[Anonymous No.8096582]

Anyone else have an issue with the remaster where the invis ring kills your framerate? When I grab it my FPS goes from ~1200 to 40

[Anonymous No.8097767]

>>8092936
Duke Nukem 3D is better than Doom in every way except music.

[Anonymous No.8097772]

>>8093120
Yeah, that was kind of their dumping ground. It's Sandy Petersen's episode.

[Anonymous No.8097804]

>>8091774
Quake has a lot of things going for it both creatively and mechanically. But a big part of what makes Quake better is just that it's 3d and not 2.5d. That gave the developers more opportunities to get creative with the level design without resorting to cheap gimmicks.

[Anonymous No.8098251]

Quake is one of my favourite games but the super shotgun should have been more SUPER like the Doom II SSG.

[Anonymous No.8098301]

>>8098251
technically it's just called the double-barreled shotgun
it is a bit disappointing though. i love shotguns but quake has two boring ones

[Anonymous No.8098347]

>>8098301
>lightning gun/thunderbolt
you aren't wrong about the double barreled shotgun but it's such a missed opportunity for what really should have been the best shotgun in gaming.

[Anonymous No.8098592]

>>8098251
Super Shotgun is a shit for gameplay balance. Nerfs were needed (although not for the feel of it)
Quake 2 got it right.

[Anonymous No.8098735]

>>8095885
some of their skits are ok, but what the fuck is this cringe shit

[Anonymous No.8099107]

When you take the rocketpill and stop leaning on the super nailgun and double-barrel to try to kill everything, the game feels a lot faster and the enemies are less "bullet-spongy".

[Anonymous No.8099169]

>>8099107
Can't do that when you play each map from a fresh start

[Anonymous No.8099189]

>>8099107
what people don't understand about Quake is that it isn't about X item or X wewpon. It's about learning the layout of the level and creating a flow that allows you to maximize damage and effeciency. Somebody who sucks at Quake will do worse with a rocket launcher than a good player will dp eith the standard shotgun. If I know where quad is on a map and I have a good route figured out, any weapon becomes deadly.

[Anonymous No.8099205]

>>8091781
>actual 3D
FTFY
Doom is not 3D

[Anonymous No.8099425]

>>8099189
Nice opinion!
Have you tried MP as well?

[Anonymous No.8099442]

>doubt

[Anonymous No.8099443]

>>8099107
>rocket for fast or high fucks
>grenade launcher for more DPS on grounded fucks or a monster jam
>tossing two grenades/rockets at a death knight then finishing with a super shotty blast
Switch it up!
>>8098592
>PUMPING a double barrel
>useless regular shotty
>grenade launcher shoots slower than rocket launcher
>BFG/superweapon slot back to sharing ammo with the plasma rifle equivilent
>not even Q1 styled muzzle flashes
>back to slow/“realistic” switch speed
I like Q1’s weapon balance a hell of a lot more for SP

[Anonymous No.8099493]

>>8098251
>>8098301
eh, the double barrel is plenty powerful on normal and weak-ish on hard. The starter shotgun actually has its place as well being useful for long range and ammo conservation. I've been playing through on nightmare recently and like other anons have said, the most powerful weapons in the game are the grenade and rocket launchers, game is pretty clearly balanced for their use on the higher difficulties.

[Anonymous No.8099528]

>>8099493
The shotguns serve similar roles in Doom as well; I’m not going waste rockets or cells on a lone mancubus or a couple of arachnotrons. The enemies are a lot faster and more aggressive in Quake so it’s a lot harder just coasting by with the super shotty this time.

[Anonymous No.8099929]

>>8099443
>PUMPING a double barrel
Shots sound and feel powerful, so whatever.
>useless regular shotty
Works just fine against weaker enemies.
>grenade launcher shoots slower than rocket launcher
It got more tactical application. Also you can throw the grenades by themselves, which is nice.
>BFG/superweapon slot back to sharing ammo with the plasma rifle equivilent
Yes, it's sharing ammo with plasma/nailgun equivalent, but honestly, usually I don't use both BFG and Hyper Blaster. There's also Railgun now.
>back to slow/“realistic” switch speed
Now that is a good complaint, but not quite what was I going on about in the post that you quoted.

[Anonymous No.8100251]

>>8099929
>Works just fine against weaker enemies.
Do what? That’s not what this is about.
Regular shotties in Q1 and Doom don’t deal as much damage but they shoot faster and are generally more accurate. For Quake 1’s case it’s roughly have the damage of the double barreled.
For Quake 2, the damage is more than double, they have the same fire rate, and the campaign drowns you in shells. There’s zero reason to use the standard shotty when you have the super.
>but honestly, usually I don't use both BFG and Hyper Blaster
Yes, the ammo is shared so you’re not encouraged to. It’s the similar dillemma revealed from Doom: No reason to use the plasma rifle once you’ve grabbed the BFG, and Q1 amended this issue by giving the lightning gun it’s own ammo pool. I’m glad you helped highlight this.
>Also you can throw the grenades by themselves, which is nice
No reason to once you have the grenade launcher. The only weapon this happened to in Q1 was the regular nailgun: Regular shotgun had some relevancy, the grenade launcher retains relevancy with it’s higher rate of fire, and you feel encouraged to use the super nail gun because it doesn’t share ammo with the obviously superior lightning gun.

[Anonymous No.8100337]

>>8099205
It is 3D though. Levels have length, width, and height. Projectiles move in three dimensions. The engine just has limitations on what can be done with the third dimension (e.g. no rooms over other rooms), and other quirks like explosions having infinite height.

[Anonymous No.8100726]

>>8091774
Not better than Half Life

[Anonymous No.8100729]

>>8100251
Yes, but there is geniunely no reason to use regular shotgun in Quake and Doom either.
I mean, unless you really have to deal with some hitscanner that is really far away FAST.
>Yes, the ammo is shared so you’re not encouraged to
No, I mean, I think that Hyper Blaster and BFG are too excessive and I tend to use other stuff.
Also, LG, while really good, never felt to me like a "superweapon" in the vein of BFG. Just a strong option akin to explosives. If I had to compare it to something in Q2 it would be Railgun (or chaingun, if you want a hitscan weapon with high rate of fire that shreds, but you can't snipe with it).
>No reason to once you have the grenade launcher.
Depends on where you want grenade to go, because you can't regulate it as easily with the Launcher.

[Anonymous No.8100798]

>>8091774
It's not. Only the multiplayer is better
t. quakefag

[Anonymous No.8100868]

>>8091774
More or less on par with it. Not sure if it beats doom really

[Anonymous No.8100985]

>>8100798
people who play multiplayer with these graphics are gay

[Anonymous No.8101003]

>>8100729
you use the regular shotgun because it fires much faster and is therefore perfect for efficiently taking out a room of weak enemies. you just hold fire and watch them walk into your line of sight and die. doom loves throwing these at you.
quake doesn't but the spread on the double barrel is obscene and there's no pistol so you're stuck using the shotgun to snipe

[Anonymous No.8101007]

>>8101003
the standard nailgun is pretty decent for sniping slow enemies.

[Anonymous No.8101015]

>>8101007
it is but i like to hoard nails and dump them on higher health enemies
the nailgun and especially the super nailgun are good at everything

[Anonymous No.8101034]

>>8100729
>because you can't regulate it as easily with the Launcher.
You can't regulate the grenade lobs as easily with the grenade launcher? What do you mean here?
If you want thrown grenades to reach the same distance as the launcher then you have to cook them. If you want to toss hand grenades as opposed to shooting them, you have a chance at dealing a whopping 13 more damage in exchange for a gutted rate of fire that needs cooking each time.
>No, I mean, I think that Hyper Blaster and BFG are too excessive and I tend to use other stuff.
Neat but irrelevant. Same for you how "feel" about the LG.
>Yes, but there is geniunely no reason to use regular shotgun in Quake and Doom either.
You already missed >>8099493 helping to highlight some of it's purpose. I like to use it when I'm approaching something that doesn't warrant me needing some nails or explosives. Any attempt to balance the "regular" and "super" shotty was completely thrown out the window for Q2, with Q1 after Doom there was an attempt.
And if you need to deal with some hitscanner "far away FAST" you'd want the chaingun. If it's some far off imps that are lined up I'd prefer the shotgun.
>>8101007
I'd rather "snipe" with hitscan, and save nails for something that warrants it that isn't far enough away to dodge my projectiles.

[Anonymous No.8101041]

>>8100729
>because you can't regulate it as easily with the Launcher.
You can't regulate the grenade lobs as easily with the grenade launcher? What do you mean here?
If you want thrown grenades to reach the same distance as the launcher then you have to cook them. If you want to toss hand grenades as opposed to shooting them, you can deal a whopping 13 more damage at a gutted rate of fire compared to the GL.
>No, I mean, I think that Hyper Blaster and BFG are too excessive and I tend to use other stuff.
Neat but irrelevant. Same for you how "feel" about the LG.
>Yes, but there is geniunely no reason to use regular shotgun in Quake and Doom either.
You already missed >>8099493 helping to highlight some of it's purpose. I like to use it when I'm approaching something that doesn't warrant me needing some nails or explosives. Any attempt to balance the "regular" and "super" shotty was completely thrown out the window for Q2, with Q1 after Doom there was an attempt.
And if you need to deal with some hitscanner "far away FAST" you'd want the chaingun. If it's some far off imps that are lined up I'd prefer the shotgun.
>>8101007
I'd rather "snipe" with hitscan, and save nails for something that warrants it that isn't far enough away to dodge my projectiles.

[Anonymous No.8101108]

It's actually astounding to me how many of you seem to have played this game extensively with no actual understanding of how it works. If you think the "double shotgun is better than the shotgun" or something of similar nature, you've inherently failed to understand how the game works. Each weapon has a unique purpose. The standard shotgun, for example, is weaker than the double shotgun, but has a tighter spread and uses less ammo per shot, making it not only easier, but more effecient, to pick off easy or weakened enemies from a distance. Things change even more when you take into account the layout of the level, the powerups you have available, and the enemies you're facing in comparison to your current arsenal. You might be less effective with a more powerful weapon like the rocket launcher, in comparison to a weaker weapon like the shotgun, if you don't know how to utilize pickups correctly. A quad-powered shotty that can gib most enemies within 1-3 shots at almost any distance while using very little of the most common ammo in the game, is better than pretty much anything else. So many people struggle with the weakest enemies because they think the weapon roster is a hierarchy and they don't realize that each weapon has situational uses. Quake is often criticized for having "spongey" enemies but to anyone familiar with how the game works, it is, perhaps, an even faster gore fest than the DOOM games.

[Anonymous No.8101147]

I miss Quake Team Fortress Custom so goddamn much, can't even find the files for it anymore.

I want to run around in multi with people running cultist classes and summoning fiends all over 2fort again.

[Anonymous No.8101354]

If by better than doom you mean "Somehow more boring than E2M2 and E1M7" then you're right

[Anonymous No.8101526]

>>8099493
>here at id, we play hard skill, and we think you should too, when you're ready
No one plays Quake on normal fren.
The double barreled should have been the super shotgun II. Still love Quake tho.

[Anonymous No.8101592]

i fucking hate aerowalk, the teleport-every-three-seconds style of gameplay isn't fun at all to me. what's the appeal? how do i git gud?

[Anonymous No.8101853]

>>8100985
this

[Anonymous No.8101939]

>>8100337
Doom is not 3D. Its raycasting. This is well known.

[Anonymous No.8101971]

>>8100985
It's legit you crybaby

[Anonymous No.8101975]

>>8101939
Except it's not. It's Wolf 3D engine that uses raycasting, Doom engine uses binary space partitioning.

[Anonymous No.8101978]

>>8091774
Still worse than DN3D.

[Anonymous No.8102004]

>>8101975
You ever notice if you shoot your pistol and an enemy is below a platform you or on, exactly level with you, or above you, the bullets hit it even though you are pointing forward and not at the enemy? Thats because theres no actual height to the game. Its projected perspective. Its not true 3D. You can see this if you turn on noclip and walk through walls in a level.

[Anonymous No.8102006]

>>8101975
https://www.vice.com/en/article/4xaagg/doom-wasnt-3d
Binary space partitoning isnt 3D

[Anonymous No.8102034]

>>8102004
They have that auto-aim because you can't look up or down. Objects can go above and below other objects.

[Anonymous No.8102045]

>>8102034
>>8102006
Its not 3D. Literally google "was doom really 3D"

[Anonymous No.8102048]

>>8102034
You cant look up or down because there is no up or down genius

[Anonymous No.8102057]

>>8102004
That has nothing to do with Raycasting or BSP.
That is simply the auto aim doing it's work.

[Anonymous No.8102063]

>>8102048
You can easily fake that in a BSP or portal based engine. Build is portal-based and did it. Some other BSP based engines did it. It just draws sector borders as always perfectly vertical lines.

[Anonymous No.8102081]

>>8102063
>>8102057
https://doom.fandom.com/wiki/Doom_rendering_engine
Theres no auto aim. Its not 3D. Quit it.

[Anonymous No.8102086]

>>8102081
You are a simpleton. Do you understand?

[Anonymous No.8102089]

>>8102086
>>8102057
>>8102063
'It is not a true "3D" engine (as it is not possible to look up and down properly, and one sector cannot be placed above or beneath another), but is however a fairly elegant system which allows pseudo-3D rendering."
>>8102081 is right

[Anonymous No.8102092]

>>8102089
Nobody talked about sector over sector you idiot. Go read again.

[Anonymous No.8102098]

>>8101526
> The double barreled should have been the super shotgun II
It is. The rate of fire of the shotgun and double shotgun in Quake is a huge boost over what was in Doom’s. Unlike Doom, the monsters aren’t as passive to make it as easy to use.

[Anonymous No.8102101]

>>8102081
>>8102089
He described out aim, which has nothing to do with how you render the world.

>>8102063
Also describes a rendering trick that has nothing to do with the engine being 2D or 3D.

[Anonymous No.8102110]

>>8102092
>Literally says its not 3D
>Still sticks to it being 3D

[Anonymous No.8102112]

>>8102092
It's clearly giving an example of how its not 3D because of this limitation.

[Anonymous No.8102115]

>>8102110
Don't talk to me again until you acquire some reading comprehension.

[Anonymous No.8102116]

>>8102112
Idiot #2

[Anonymous No.8102147]

Saying that Doom is not "true 3D" because Quake is a thing is like saying Quake isn't "true 3D" because vr is a thing.

You move in 3 dimensions in Doom and that is all that matters. The rest is arguing about which tech powers those 3 dimensions and their limitations.

[Anonymous No.8102158]

>>8102147
Appearing three dimensional is not "is three dimensional".

[Anonymous No.8102162]

>>8091774
Actual fast gameplay without reliance of 8 dice rolls of RNG, putting more emphasis on actual skill. Fast but action-packed levels without maze-like layouts that flow non-stop. All defining features that Doom absolutely doesn't have. Sure, you run at mach 2 in Doom, but what's the use when every projectile and enemy is slower than you?

[Anonymous No.8102168]

>>8102162
Would also like to mention two more points: Enemies die faster than Doom 2's. It takes a bit over 2 seconds to fire two shots from the Super Shotgun, which is the time it takes to fire four shots with Quake's double-barrel. Both double-barrels considered, Ogres die as fast as Revenants/Cacos/PEs, Hell Knights die as fast as Quake's HKs, Fiends die as fast as Mancubi, Arachnotrons, Archies. Vores die slower than the three previously mentioned, but are one of the less common enemies, like Barons. Two, you are able to use explosive weapons more often, being that there's more ammo and less self-damage from those, and they also do double the damage from the double-barrel, which is not the case with Doom 2, because for some reason, a rocket launcher does almost exactly as much damage as a double-barreled shotgun in that game.

[Anonymous No.8102183]

>>8102158
I guess you've never heard of "Wolfenstein 3D". That was what 3D was at the time to make games, because the tech evolved and improved and new tech were made doesn't turn it into "Wolfenstein not 3D", it's just new ways to achieve three dimensional gameplay. The rest is marketing in laymans term "okay but see now we have REEAAALL 3D!"

[Anonymous No.8102281]

>>8101971
legitimately gay

[Anonymous No.8102294]

>>8102004
If there is no actual height, how a raised platform can block bullets?
Why enemy projectiles don't follow you when a lift moves you up or when you are in the air when jumping off something?

[Anonymous No.8102296]

>>8102281
Me: married, with children
You: basement, with your right hand

[Anonymous No.8102297]

>>8102296
Married to a man with adopted kids? That's cute.

[Anonymous No.8102298]

>>8102297
Projecting hard anon :^)

[Anonymous No.8102360]

>>8101041
>q2 grenades and grenade launcher
I honestly wish they were separate. And for GL to lob grenades that explode on impact in arc trajectory.

[Anonymous No.8102373]

>>8091774

[Anonymous No.8102415]

>>8091818
Looks like it is to Quake what the PS1 port of Doom is to Doom. The music is replaced with (more) ambient and there's colored lighting and the level geometry is simplified somewhat.

[Anonymous No.8102418]

>>8101939
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLRvPJppwsM

[Anonymous No.8102421]

>>8102048
Heretic and Hexen (Doom engine games) added ability to look up and down.

[Anonymous No.8102427]

>>8102158
If we are going by that, there is technically no 3d games released yet. Everything just appears to be 3d, but is actually projected on 2d screen.

[Anonymous No.8102714]

The secret is because Quake has much, much more creative enemy design and the design generally worked well with the new 3d environments.
The standout example is the ogre with its bouncing grenade attack, which allows a LOT of interplay with level design. You have to think about where the ogre is, where you are, and how a grenade will interact. Standing on top of a slope? As long as you dodge you're probably safe. At the bottom? Then it'll likely being to your feet. You have a large flat overhang? The grenade will land up there. Small overhand? It will probably bounce around- and so on and so on and so on.

The other standout is the Vores homing bomb which similarly requires taking environment into account. Spawns, while being a pain in the ass, are really useful for making tight spaces hell or placing in a shadowed alcove to fuck with the player. Demons can be beat by pure verticality but are a pain in the ass in a straight hallway. Most enemies have some aspect where environment radically changes how you might have to deal with them. Some of this stuff is pretty standard now but Quake did it all on really the first fully 3D outing.

Similarly the players weapons have a decent amount of environmental interplay with the GL and RL.

Doom has tighter, faster gameplay. But ultimately it's less creative. It's a give and take trying to determine which one is "better" because if you just want shooty action Doom is the clear choice. If you want fast action but want to think a little more/ have more varied scenarios Quake is better.

[Anonymous No.8102847]

[Anonymous No.8102874]

>>8102004
there's height. enemies have infinite height above the ground which is why you can shoot things on the floor below, and you can't walk on an enemy's head. floors have set height though. stairs, elevators, walls, cliffs, etc all function as they should
projectiles like plasma or enemy fire balls move in true 3d space. get on an elevator and let a revenant shoot you. the missile tracks your x,y,z position.

[Anonymous No.8102882]

>>8102714
>Doom has tighter, FASTER gameplay
If anything is arguably faster in Doom it's only the movement speed. Gameplay as a whole is slower.
The rest of your post had me but that was a weird thing to see.

[Anonymous No.8102904]

>>8102874
>and you can't walk on an enemy's head
The rockets or plasma will pass through though.

[Anonymous No.8103331]

>>8100985
We don't care if you are gay anon

[Anonymous No.8103337]

>>8101592
>what's the appeal
gitting gud

[Anonymous No.8103509]

>>8102421
You can jump in Hexen, too. In fact, there are platforming sections.

[Anonymous No.8103676]

Eye watering what the "not 3D" halfwits pull out of their asses in this thread.

[Anonymous No.8104702]

>>8102714
I don't know personally that I would call doom tighter, certainly more cathartic than Quake, but the heavy reliance on RNG for everything from damage values to enemy behaviors makes Doom a significantly looser game, along with more poorly defined distinctions between enemy roles, in contrast to Quake's cut to the bone enemy selection

[Anonymous No.8105303]

>>8091774
Half-life > Doom > Quake

[Anonymous No.8105409]

They're called 2.5D games for a reason.

[Anonymous No.8105742]

>>8102297
Still further than you'll get in mommy's basement

[Anonymous No.8105835]

>>8102004
Except you don't.
You can shoot above/below monsters with both projectiles and hitscans if they are significanlty above/below you or are in a pit that obscures direct LOS to them so that AutoAim code (which really does check for Z-axis, aka 3d dimension) can't aim at them.

>>8102874
"Infinite height" effect only exist because monster on monster collision is a simple horizontal distance check.
Projectiles and hitscans do verticality check as well, thus being able to pass over/under enemies.

Heretic and Hexen do verticality check for everything thus you can walk on props and fly over monster heads there, even though it uses same engine.

>>8102006
>>8102045
>unironically citing Vice and GameTheory faggots as a legitimate source
There are so many things factually and verifiably wrong in that article and video it uses as a basis it's not even funny. And any one who cites those morons instantly loses all credibility. That vid was thoroughly debunked point-by point a dozen times over (just search Game Theory on Doomworld)


Faggots really need to stop inventing their own definition of "3D" in order to fit Doom into "not 3D" category
3D means 3 dimensions. Nothing more nothing less.
It does not mean "can render a teapot", or "can move 360degree rotating cubes with player standing on top of them"
Player, monsters and items can move in all 3 dimensions in Doom. And the engine tracks all 3 dimensions for all objects. Sure, you can't jump but you can ride the elevator and fall from height. Whatever limitations it has are because of optimisation rather than inability.
It can render 3D objects. A cube room with a column is a 3D object, impossible to render without presence of the third dimension data.
Any other "requirements to be 3D" are arbitrary and irrelevant.

2.5D is a misnomer people direct at games that allow interaction in 3D without showing it, or show 3D without ability to interact with it. Wolfenstein is 2.5D because nothing can interact with Z axis.

[Anonymous No.8105952]

>>8105835
>Wolfenstein is 2.5D because nothing can interact with Z axis.
Makes me really wonder about Rise of the Triad.
Like how or why or why Carmack decided not to do some of that stuff for Doom.

[Anonymous No.8106031]

>>8105952
Rise of the Triad is 3D, it just has much more limitations than most, especially in maping format, including its strictly orthogonal nature.
The curious thing about it is that System Shock uses similar orthogonal tile based mapping format for its main space, but appears to be much less limited than it really is due to the great variety of the tiles used, and there are some people that argue about SS being "more 3D than Doom", while in reality it had more limitations in the mapping department.

The reason for not using some of that stuff for Doom was same why monsters only check for radius during collision detection between each other - optimisation. Doom's more free-form geometry and lighting effects required much more processing power than tile-based grid of ROTT.
ROTT could be played reasonably well on 386DX - with ~20 fps - on same machine Doom was a barely playable slowmo with about 9-12 fps.

However same technique was used in Heretic and Hexen that began using proper full distance check in all directions for collisions - in fact Hexen has floating magic platforms made in exact same way ROTT does, thoug they are used only in couple of places there.

Any way, "limited 3D" is still 3D if you go by proper definition.