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/vr/ - Retro Games

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8040849 No.8040849 [Reply] [Original]

Do I really need to use the Ice rod to kill this thing? It wouldn't be fair to require what should be an optional item since it's from an optional area to clear a dungeon.

>> No.8040907

Yeah. Git gud or go home. ALTTP doesn't fuck around.

>> No.8040912 [DELETED] 

Funny how people think this is normal but the idea that Ocarina devs might have made dungeon order non-linear on purpose is somehow unthinkable

>> No.8040914

>>8040849
That's circular reasoning, anon; since you do need the item, that makes the area NOT optional.
Plus, it's a weapon, not a tool. Demanding dungeon design that made impossible for you to reach the boss without the weapon would be asking for the sort of handholding that get so much criticism in later games (and that's forgetting the fact that the player should already know he should be looking for a treasure in every palace)

>> No.8040957

>>8040914
An "adventure game" shouldn't force you to use a certain weapon to defeat an enemy from item you get from a cave somewhere the game never mentions. At least before entering certain dungeons they tell you that you need a medallion before entering. To require you to use one specific item just to defeat the boss at the end without you having to need it before then is bullshit.

>> No.8040964

>>8040957
I think you're a bit too young for this board.

>> No.8040993

It’s not like the Ice Rod is particularly hidden, nor is it an impossible backtrack to go get. If this is what prevents you from enjoying this game, you may be nitpicking too much.

>> No.8040996

>>8040957
>An "adventure game" shouldn't force you to use a certain weapon to defeat an enemy from item you get from a cave somewhere the game never mentions.
No offense but is this your first Zelda game? Even 1 did this.

>> No.8041005

>>8040914
I think the only underlying design issue is that Turtle Rock is an extremely linear dungeon and the boss is the first and only time you need the ice rod. It probably should have an earlier check like the cane of sumeria does to avoid a needless waste of time. Most of the time when an item is required there's an indication in the level.

>> No.8041006

>>8040996
2 as well, and that did it in an ACTUALLY annoying way, where the thing you need to bring back to a town is located right next to the palace you need the reward in. So if you just enter the palace without turning around and running back to town to cash in the reward you can't beat the palace.

>> No.8041008

>>8041005
They probably correctly assumed there's no way someone wouldn't have the Ice Rod at this point.

>> No.8041028

>>8041008
Its true that it's very unlikely. It's just the only time the game does that, where you could go through the entire level and reach the boss without the item you need and then have to completely redo the level a second time because it's entirely linear with no shortcuts.

>> No.8041031

>>8040912
Based. People are very stuck in their ways and just do it how Navi said they should as a kid. Most of the OoT dungeons can be done out of order, even without getting the item and leaving.

>> No.8041032

>>8041031
This is arguably Nintendo's own fault. It's like how in ALTTP they number the dark world dungeons despite several of them being doable out of order. It makes it look like an unintentional accident when any decent Zelda game should work that way by default.

>> No.8041035

Wait, what OoT dungeons can you do out of order?

>> No.8041038

Anyone here ever beat kholdstare without the upgraded master sword, bombos and magic upgrade?
My last run of alttp, I forgot to get either before going to ice palace and I got my shit kicked in.

>> No.8041039

>>8041028
>>8041031
Oh god, not this shit again.

Yes, it can be done.
No, it’s not provable that it was intentional in anyway shy of contacting the developers and asking.
No, having prior knowledge of which locked doors in the Water Temple can be skipped over is not intuitive.

The game railroads you into an order, and you have to have knowledge only obtained from beating the game beforehand, and autistically devote your brainpower and memory to memorizing the contents of each room in the water temple. It is not a toutable feature, it’s an interesting factoid.

>> No.8041042

>>8041032
True. I don't care if people don't notice, it's just that some people are super vehement about denying a very simple, inoffensive fact about muh favey game
>>8041035
The Fire Temple can be done as soon as you have the hookshot, so you can do it before or after any of the dungeons as an adult iirc. Shadow and Spirit can be done in any order, etc.
>>8041039
The fact that almost every game before that had a nonlinear dungeon order is indication enough. Do you think that Nintendo just slipped up and accidentally forgot to restrict access unless you did it exactly the way they told you to?

>> No.8041043

>>8041035
assuming you don't want to leave a temple then come back later, you can do fire or forest in either order, or shadow and spirit in either order
you can even do water before fire but you have to do forest before water

>> No.8041048

>>8041039
Going on a rager about Water Temple keys when we're talking about Dungeon order. Schitzo.

>> No.8041053

>>8041035
Yep. Iirc it goes
>both fire temple and water temple are beatable without arrows, thusly can be beaten before forest temple
>shadow temple and spirit temple can be played interchangeably, but spirit requires beating the forest temple since you need to play half of the temple as child link. I don't recall for certain if the shadow temple requires the lens of truth, though.

Theoretically, there's a number of different orders possible.

>> No.8041058

>>8041053
The Shadow Temple doesn't require the lense, but it's difficult without it, lots of trial and error

>> No.8041061

>>8041042
>Shadow and Spirit can be done in any order, etc.
Yeah, those I knew, and the game clearly signals this by pointing you towards both after you beat the Water Temple.

>> No.8041087

>>8041058
>>8041053
Shadow also explicitly requires beating both fire and water. Those are needed for the sheik cutscene to trigger.

>> No.8041102

>>8040914
>and that's forgetting the fact that the player should already know he should be looking for a treasure in every palace

You don't get the ice rod from a palace you retarded fucking moron. You get it from a random lightworld cave with no other reason to go in.

>> No.8041141

>>8041102
>it's the game's fault I don't explore

>> No.8041158

>>8040957
Shasharala tells you after giving the boots that there is an interesting item in the cave west of Lake Hyrule.

>> No.8041192

>>8040996
I've played Majora's Mask and Twilight Princess but haven't finished them yet.

>> No.8041206

>>8041102
Fair enough

>> No.8041216

>>8040957
As mentioned, the game tips you off that there's something good in that location as soon as you get the running boots, why would you ignore it?

>>8041102
>random
>no reason to go in
Setting aside what I said before, why the fuck aren't you exploring caves you see, you fucking idiot? There's fucking treasure to find in them.

>> No.8041238

>>8041053
nah, you need the bow for literally one key locked behind one of those eyeball switches in the water temple. it sucks

>> No.8041245
File: 31 KB, 480x360, hqdefault.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8041245

>>8040849

Not even the worst part of the game:

>Get to a random cracked wall in Dark World
>Try all items on it, nothing works
>No one in game even mentions this wall
>Have to go back to the bomb shop to buy a special bomb
>This shop only sells normal bombs 99% of the time, which can be found in chests, so you never have a reason to revisit. It is only during this ONE MOMENT IN TIME, that you will even SEE this item for sale
>This allows you to get access to the one weapon that can damage Ganon. You can still fight him, but he'll be invulnerable and you cant escape.

Of course it doesnt help that the Ganon fight is a puzzle to begin with so you just assume youre doing something wrong. No, you need a secret item just to finish the fucking game. I fucking DARE you to defend this.

>> No.8041249

>>8041245
does no one give you any hints? i don't remember that being a problem for me

>> No.8041260

>>8041245
>When Ganon is stunned, give him his last moment with a Silver Arrow! Do you understand, Link?

>To tell you the truth, I found incredible beauty inside the pyramid, but someone sealed the door. You can't do anything with a standard bomb, they say...

>Hocus pocus! You will buy a new kind of bomb in the Bomb Shop.

>> No.8041268

>>8041249
Yes, everything is hinted at >>8041260

>> No.8041273

Can you even reach the spirit temple without first getting the hover boots in the Shadow temple?

>> No.8041276

>>8041273
Yes, you can longshot over that sand river.

>> No.8041278

>>8041273
yeah spirit temple can be done without hover boots, and that includes getting there

>> No.8041305

>>8041273
Hover boots aren't necessary. That said, the hover boots are three minutes into shadow temple

>> No.8041340

>>8040849
But realistically think who would not have been curious at some point before the second to final dungeon to have wandered to that little nook beside lake Hylia? It's not tough to get the item.

>> No.8041348

>>8041245
I think it's a fair defense to say that there aren't THAT many places in the overworld to investigate. Even if you rechecked every single house and cave in the game you'd stumble onto the big bomb within 15 minutes.

>> No.8041367

>>8041260
Thanks bro, I love seeing fags getting assblasted by posts like yours.

>> No.8041378

I wish I could cum in a girl!!!!

>> No.8041482

>>8040957
Kek, is this bait?

>> No.8041492

>>8041216
So I missed a cave, so what? There are dozens of caves and secret areas. Missing one shouldn't stop me from completing the game.

>> No.8041497

>>8041158
I DIDN'T TALK TO HIM OK GEEZE

>> No.8041504

>>8041497
Yes you did, it's literally required.

>> No.8041520

>>8041245
The trigger condition for buying the big bomb is pretty unusual.
You need both the 5th and 6th crystals. Any other crystals you might have are irrelevant.

It's actually possible to defeat Ganon without the silver arrows, you can spin attack him as he teleports away during the final phase, there's a one frame window where a lingering spin attack hitbox can damage him.
Not intended but there you go.

>> No.8041534

>>8041497
(You) mean you didn't listen to him.

Respect your elders!

>> No.8041554

>>8041520
>Not intended but there you go.
Lore wise you could consider it the tip of the Master Sword functioning as an arrowhead.

>> No.8041561

You need the bow and arrows to solve an easy puzzle and get the final door key in the water temple. If anything it proves the developers specifically went out of their way to prevent you from doing the temples out of order.

>> No.8041586

>>8040849
You are literally told to go get the ice rod, early in the game. It's not like missing some unknown place only for 100% completion explorers, you missed a step in the adventure, simple as.

>> No.8041597

>>8041245
>he'll be invulnerable and you cant escape.
No and no, respectively

>> No.8041618

>>8040849
>Do I really need to use the Ice rod to kill this thing?
Pretty sure you could just hit the heads with pretty much anything, the rods are just more effective and have the best range.
Then again maybe that's just for the GBA version which was the one I last played and even that was long ago.

>> No.8041646

This is why zoomies and ppl spoiled by modernshit who wrecked their attentionspan with twitter should stay away from retro games.

>> No.8041653

>>8040849
>>8040957
Stupid criticism that borders on falseflagging
The biggest problem with ALttP is how it replaces the previous games' system of having a few significant secrets with having far too many insignificant ones

>> No.8041664

>>8040914
>Demanding dungeon design that made impossible for you to reach the boss without the weapon would be asking for the sort of handholding that get so much criticism in later games
but this board defends OoT to the death

>> No.8041681

>>8040849
La
Mulana

>> No.8041694

>>8041348
I agree, you should have explored pretty fucking thoroughly by the time you get to Turtle Rock.

>> No.8041720

>>8041238
Isn't it technically possible to skip the key door leading to the highest waterlevel panel with a precise jumpslash and jump?

>> No.8041892

>>8040957
Everyone that played the game back then found the cave in the first hours of playing this game. Wtf is up people not finding the ice rod?! Maybe they should look for another hobby.

>> No.8041998

>>8041492
>dozens

>> No.8042000

>>8041892
Pretty sure it's bait
I don't see how someone could get through skull woods whilst being supposedly so inept that they can't find the ice rod

>> No.8042375

>NPC you go to for the game's story tells you that you should go get whatever's over there
>just ignore him, never go there
>encounter problems because you ignored instruction
WOOOWWW

>> No.8042448

>>8040849
>zoomer opinions

I thought you little faggots like DURKSOULZ bruh, thought you were SOULZCORE bruh? Fucking hell you pussy fucking get ACTUALLY good at games.

>> No.8042542

>>8041038
I always do the Ice temple with no sword at all.
>Drop off Sword to get tempered by the dwarves
>stock up on green potions
>take down entire dungeon with fire rod and arrows
>Pick up my sword and leave town

>> No.8042547

>>8042542
based and slipperyfloor pilled

>> No.8042560

>>8041367
aye, big ups to the old homies in here batting down these bogus complaints. making me wanna play some LttP too.

>> No.8042629

>>8040849
>optional item
>required to beat a boss
Then it's not fucking optional, is it?
Or is it just optional in the same way as you have "the option" to not play or not finish the game?

>> No.8043326

>>8041245
>random cracked wall in Dark World
IIRC the crack in this wall looked notably different from the ones you encountered in the game up until then. that alone should have sufficed as a hint

>> No.8043570

>>8043326
It doesn't, lots of other cracked walls use the same pattern, it just isn't the "you can obviously pegasis charge this one" crack. An unfortunate thing about this type of crack is that it's used as decoration sometimes. Those walls that look like they *might* be bombable, and very occasionally turn out not to be? It's that type. However I would never call it a "random cracked wall in the dark world", it's the sole crack on the pyramid Ganon fucking lives at.

>> No.8043783

>>8043570
The game fucking tells you about the crack too >>8041260

>> No.8043797

>>8042629
Op's complaint really is that you have to go out of the way to get an item that is only needed for this specific purpose.
Players often don't use magic weapons outside of their required utility, but the ice rod is very useful against Lanmola in the desert palace, it two shots each one.

>> No.8043798

>>8041618
There is a warning in the entrance of turtle rock that you will need ice magic, as i recall. Pretty sure it warns you that you should bring a magic potion too.

>> No.8043813

>>8041720
yeah, i mean that's a trick that speedrunners use, but it's an unintended mechanic

>> No.8044989
File: 8 KB, 1000x1375, ALttP_Bunny_Link.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8044989

>>8040849
> game isn't braindead linear
> cringe
i hate zoomers

>> No.8045000

>>8041216
Plus that boss is the last thing you do before the final dungeon, so it should be trivial to have explored all the side areas.

>> No.8045030

Zoomies just aren't cut out for retro games. Games have been retard-friendly for 20 years

>> No.8045082
File: 59 KB, 501x506, op_cantstop.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8045082

>> No.8045182
File: 109 KB, 400x300, knob.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8045182

>>8045082
We need to bring this stuff back into vogue, for when OPs are unapologetically hypergay.

>> No.8045223

>>8045030
They're not cut out for modern games either. Not unless it can be consumed in three minutes on the screen of a phone, or with a streamer that probably hates them making funny faces at them in the corner of the screen

>> No.8045398

>>8043798
if this is true I will be mad that a thread like this got off the ground at all

>> No.8045521
File: 998 KB, 500x265, 4chan-7-rename-before-posting.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
[ERROR]

>>8040914
>the player should already know

wanna know how we can tell you're a nazi who fears folks who look different from you?

>> No.8045535
File: 180 KB, 600x600, OP's thread.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8045535

>>8045182
Rate my OC

>> No.8045553

>>8043798
>>8045398
Is it the grey tile with an arrow? I haven't played the game in a long time, I forget if those are messages.
Timestamped, bottom left of screen. https://youtu.be/hMxRpInfRkg?t=5

>> No.8045629

>>8045535
Eh, that guy looks too cool to be OP.

>> No.8045735

>>8045629
That's not OP and you might be gay if you think leather men are cool just sayin

>> No.8045764
File: 97 KB, 670x950, halford whip.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8045764

>>8045735
The oldschool leatherman look is cool because it's macho. Zoomer homos aren't cool because they have no machismo.

>> No.8045831

>>8045535
It sucks that queers co-opted leather fashion. Can't wear more than one item at once without looking like a fag.

>> No.8045856

>>8045553
Yeah It's supposed to be a triforce on the tile. I don't think Sahasrahla tells you about needing ice magic. He just says you will need the medicine of magic.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/snes/588436-the-legend-of-zelda-a-link-to-the-past/faqs/20233

>> No.8045878

>>8045831
Just don't hit on men or suck cock and you can pull it off. Bikers do it.

>> No.8045915

>>8045764

No one's taken Judas Priest seriously since Halford came out and Tim Owens should have replaced him instead of ruining Iced Earth.

>> No.8045931

>>8045915
If that's what you think. Fag.

>> No.8045967

>>8042542
A lot of enemies in ice palace are insta-killed by the hook shot.
And of course by that point you'll have the magic hammer. There are pretty few instances in LttP where you actually need the sword specifically, most bosses can be defeated swordless.

>> No.8046201

>Get Ice and Fire Rods
>Use once on turtle heads
>Bash with hammer
>????
>Profit
Git gud.

>> No.8046219

>>8040849
>reach this boss without ice rod
>hmm he seems to have a fire head and an ice head
>okay the fire rod damages the ice head
>maybe there's an ice rod somewhere I missed?
>exit dungeon
>time to explore
Oh no zoomie, you were mildly inconvenienced by having to exit and re-enter the dungeon, in order to solve a problem which simultaneously granted a sense of discovery and reward while making the game more challenging and richer.

>> No.8046286

>>8045967
my favorite for that is killing the moth boss only using bees

>> No.8046496

>>8041048
>schitzo
schizo detected

>> No.8046513

>>8046219
saved and bottled

>> No.8046876

>>8042542
>>8045967
That is pretty badass. I have played through %100 in a single day a couple of times but I never tried anything like that. I can dig it

>> No.8046891 [DELETED] 

>>8042542
incredibly chad method. i thought i was cool for

>> No.8047081

>>8040957
we found the one guy in the world who got to this boos with out the ice rod

>> No.8047096

>>8045967
you'll only need the sword for the barrier and curtain in aga tower, the vines in skull woods, for using ether and bombos, and to kill Ganon.

>> No.8047327

>>8045831
If all it takes is leather to make you look like a fag, you already looked like a fag to begin with

>> No.8047371

>>8041031
How can you do them out of order? Also what do you mean by getting the item and leaving?

>> No.8047379

>>8047371
Nvm, I replied without reading enough of the thread, lmao.

>> No.8047683

>>8040849
Should I play this on my 3DS or CRT?

>> No.8048282

>>8041048
What the fuck are you even talking about, you delusional child?