OLEDs for retro gaming

[Anonymous No.7993696]

How are OLEDs for retro gaming? I understand that they have pure blacks, but surely a VA panel TV with limited RGB output wouldn't be far behind. I mean, you lose black details, but they're not really meant to be seen anyway. Are OLEDs really worth potentially burning a 4:3 image into a $2,000+ screen?

[Anonymous No.7993758]

>>7993696
OLEDfag here.
There's a lot of burn-in testing done on OLEDs. Black bars from 4:3 content don't burn in, as the color black is created through the lights turning off, not on. It can degrade the pixels unevenly but newer models have pixel refresheners to fix that. With modern models, you have to play the same game with the same settings for literal thousands of hours to get burn in, not really something relevant to /vr/ content.
I have an OLED because I play both retro and modern games and also watch a lot of movies and shows. As a mixed media display it's very good, but if you're just looking to play retro vidya I'd just get a CRT for a fraction of the cost.

[Anonymous No.7993763]

>>7993696
Great choice of game, though.

[Anonymous No.7994034]

I prefer my Wii connected to a CRT to my Switch connected to my 55' OLED. Doesn't look bad but I definitely prefer playing on the smaller display for old games.

[Anonymous No.7994168]

>>7993758
Have you used CRT shaders on it?

[Anonymous No.7994207]

>>7994168
I have. Royale with halation, contrast, AA tweaked a bit, and crt-geom-deluxe in MAME with less retarded phosphor decay, brightness raised, and sharper filtering look fantastic. The same settings on my friend's 4K LED LCD look like trash. OLED is a bit of a magic bullet between how 'natural' the colors look and the contrast. I'm constantly paranoid of burn-in though. You'll see retention fairly often after long sessions and it's a bit upsetting, but it goes away.

[Anonymous No.7994289]

>>7994168
I use Guest-Dr-Venom-2
Though something with black lines like Kurozumi would probably be better for the OLED

[Anonymous No.7994306]

>>7994207
If you're that worried about shader burn in you could just change the settings of the shader or try entirely different ones

[Anonymous No.7994389]

>>7994306
Nah I don't play oldschool games for that long at a time. It's generally a way of life thing for OLEDs.

[Anonymous No.7994667]

>>7993758
how about motion clarity? supposedly, oled doesn't have the inherent issues with motion blur that LCDs have, but my phone is AMOLED and it streaks like crazy.

[Anonymous No.7995398]

>>7994667
Newer LG OLED TVs have fixed all that with "black frame insertion." Even the video nerds at Digital Foundry say they give CRT-quality motion now.

[Anonymous No.7995421]

>>7995398
so then the brightness is fucked, then. i wish they could make do without that bullshit. the htc vive didn't seem to have a problem.

[Anonymous No.7995743]

>>7995421
No. Brightness on the last few OLED panels with BFI doesn't take a hit. They are doing more refreshes to alleviate it. It goes down to about CRT levels of brightness now, instead of below.

[Anonymous No.7995749]

>>7994207
How ancient is your oled if you are getting retention? In almost isn't possible on the 8, 9, X, 1 models and the Sony equivalents.

[Anonymous No.7995793]

>>7995743
why do some OLED panels even need black frame insertion? does the vive use it? because that's pretty old

[Anonymous No.7996218]

it's not fair, bros...

we were supposed to have microled by now...

[Anonymous No.7996226]

>>7995749
You don't have one or you're really unobservant. HDTVtest proves this happens on new models, even, and if you had one you'd know. I'm not talking about burn-in. I'm talking about when you have a bright, static image on screen for awhile, then you switch to a dark grey screen and you'll see a 'shadow' of what was there.

[Anonymous No.7996234]

>>7996218
Can't LEDs blink like thousands of times a second? Wonder what kind of refresh rate microLED monitors will get. I heard that AMD or someone was already doing shit with the idea of temporal shaders that would target ultra high refresh displays. We'll finally get temporally accurate scanline drawing...

[Anonymous No.7996236]

>>7996234
Wouldn't this add a massive processing tax?

[Anonymous No.7996249]

>>7996236
It's not like your PC is going to be updating the game 1000 times a second just because you have a 1000fps display. I think the idea is that the GPU would be running each frame through a shader repeatedly. So like if you were emulating a 60fps game and your futuristic GPU and display could both handle 60x240 frames per second, you could draw each frame scanline by scanline.

[Anonymous No.7996254]

>>7996249
fucking zoomer who never saw a CRT irl thinks you can see the scanlines being drawn with the naked eye

[Anonymous No.7996305]

>>7996254
>you think you can see something made out of atoms when you can't even see individual atoms? lmao

[Anonymous No.7996510]

>>7996249
I think you're underestimating how expensive that processing a 1000 times a second will be, and while the source image is 240p @ 60hz, the CRT simulation is at a far higher resolution and and doing a bunch of complex math to present it. Notice how even Royale, which doesn't have goals nearly that lofty, needs a half decent GPU.

[Anonymous No.7996546]

>>7996510
Pretending you have some hypothetical infinite refresh display, the GPU drawing to it in portions as it goes as opposed to drawing the entire screen at once is more a matter of hardware refactoring than processing power. Obviously rendering a full 4k frame 14,400 times a second isn't going to be happening in the conceivable near-future.

[Anonymous No.7996728]

mmmm hud burn in

[Anonymous No.7996776]

>>7995421
You can crank up your OLED's brightness and if you're emulating, try out HDR stuff to make it even brighter
But honestly I just deal with the very slight ghosting

[Anonymous No.7997446]

>>7993696
Still sample and hold garbage with scaling lag. Not a single OLED ever created has proper scan line drawing and probably never will.

[Anonymous No.7997514]

>>7993758
>you have to play the same game with the same settings for literal thousands of hours to get burn in, not really something relevant to /vr/ content.
this is a load, if you get one it's going to happen eventually, don't care what the shills have to say about it.

[Anonymous No.7997558]

>>7993696
OLEDs actually have the contrast people meme about with CRTs, no set I had ever really came close to impressive inky blacks.

[Anonymous No.7997639]

>>7997558
Correct. Even using black on a CRT means the electron gun is still hitting the phosphors on the screen, which lights them up ever so slightly. True black is only possible from OLED.

[Anonymous No.7997750]

>>7993696
OLEDs are amazing for retro gaming when using 4K shaders. Looks far better than CRTs with their geometry and convergence issues and the size can be much bigger.

[Anonymous No.7998105]

>>7993758
>pixel refresheners to fix that
What

[Anonymous No.7998218]

>>7995793
Because blur is only partially a function of the Black to Black or Grey to Grey time.
Sure that goes away with OLED, but doesn't address Sample & Hold, which is now the remaining blur.

[Anonymous No.7998232]

>>7993696
Anything other than a 1ms gaming monitor will have an input lag impact on gameplay.
Also every time I post this I'm brutally ignored, so I guess most people in here don't even care about input lag or even know it exists.
For me, it's an old tube tv or a 1ms gaming monitor. Any other option is immediately discarded as of retro gaming.

[Anonymous No.7998265]

>>7998218
but do certain OLED panels not have sample and hold? because the vive looked pretty clear from what i remember. or was that using BFI?

[Anonymous No.7998367]

>>7994667
>>7995398
They can do it, yes, but they're very dim. OLEDs in general aren't super bright and suffer from agressive ABL to meet power requirements.
>>7998265
All VR headsets use strobing. If they didn't, you'd get sick pretty fast.

[Anonymous No.7998382]

>>7998232
>1ms gaming monitor
Lol, do you even know what you're talking about?

[Anonymous No.7998391]

>>7998232
idiot, an lg cx 48 is only 13ms of lag at 60hz, the best lcds only do about 8ms, nevermind that you could probably beat the lcd monitors by using quick frame transport.

[Anonymous No.7998402]

they should just make a display that uses millions of lasers to beam the pixels directly into your retina

[Anonymous No.7998420]

>>7993696
>How are OLEDs for retro gaming?
terrible. not recommended unless using some expensive converter to hdmi, as most modern televisions aren't built to handle ancient tech with noisy video signals.

[Anonymous No.7998430]

>>7998420
They're actually pretty great, and closer to how a CRT looked than LCDs.

[Anonymous No.7998442]

One day there will be a display technology that simply directly inputs signals directly to your brain and tricks you into thinking you're sitting on the couch with your bros playing Sega Genesis on the old family CRT.

[Anonymous No.7998461]

My 77 inch LG CX looks really good, if I didn't already have a CRT setup I don't think I'd seek one out.

I got maybe 2000 ish hours of retro content on my OLED, no burn in that I can see. I don't worry about it anymore.

Only time I had burn in issues on any TV was late gen Panasonic plasma and the dark souls hud getting burned into it

[Anonymous No.7998534]

>>7998265
Most Phones and VR headsets use some form of strobing. Because it significantly improve viewing quality of motion.
But monitors are still sample and hold. Due lack of BTB and GTG running simple BFI is a significant improvement compared to LCD with "similar" specs.

[Anonymous No.7998557]

>>7998534
interesting. i have a pixel 2 which uses an AMOLED display and its so god damn blurry. blacks smear like its a VA panel in certain scenarios and its trippy to look at (not the good kind of trippy)
so is OLED *actually* coming to fruition for PC monitors? because ive read forum posts ages ago that it was "coming soon®" and not to worry about LCDs as a stopgap. i just bought a NOS CRT because of this shit; it doesn't seem like they're ever going to make non-garbage monitors any time soon, and when they do i dunno if i can justify the $1000+ price.

[Anonymous No.7998571]

honestly I can live with current LCD+shader visual quality, it's uneven motion that gets me. I don't know if it's microstuttering or dropped frames or just games scrolling a different number of pixels each frame, but I've never been satisfied with motion in an emulated game, it's never as smooth as I want it to be

[Anonymous No.7998605]

>>7998571
>games scrolling a different number of pixels each frame

I've noticed this a lot while emulating, I guess because the displays are sharp enough to make it apparent. If you think about it it's obvious that games would have to scroll unevenly otherwise scroll rates would be restricted to very specific values and transitioning between them would be really jumpy.

[Anonymous No.7998705]

>>7998232
I'm the OP, and the only modern monitors that approach 1ms will only do that in 120hz mode. 60hz is at least 8ms+. Only CRTs will give you lag less 60hz gaming.

[Anonymous No.7998945]

>>7998571
The microstuttering happens from retro games with non-standard refresh rates. Many modern displays do have VRR, variable refresh rate options to alleviate this.

[Anonymous No.8000571]

>>7998420
>Looks at MiSTer

[Anonymous No.8000587]

>>7993696
off topic but holy fuck is it infuriating that no one makes gloss computer monitors anymore. to avoid the sandpaper grit I'd have to shell out for a 40 inch tv with horrible input lag and bad pixel density at non 4k resolutions.

[Anonymous No.8000628]

>>7998105
After several hours of use, when the OLED goes into standby mode, the "pixel refresher" will start. It somehow detects pixel degredation and compensates by running a certain voltage to those pixels.

[Anonymous No.8000650]

>>7996234
>thousands
Try millions. LEDs are crazy fast, faster than you'd ever need them to be even if you want stupid refresh rates and strobing.