As someone who never really experienced the home computer era, what was the difference between the Atari ST and the Amiga (and I guess the X68000)? They are all based on 68000 architecture, so wouldn't their capabilities be similar, and the software libraries be similar?

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Anonymous Mon Jul 26 04:23:42 2021 No.7980197 [Reply] [Original]

As someone who never really experienced the home computer era, what was the difference between the Atari ST and the Amiga (and I guess the X68000)? They are all based on 68000 architecture, so wouldn't their capabilities be similar, and the software libraries be similar?

Anonymous Mon Jul 26 06:40:53 2021 No.7980295

>>7980197
>the difference
Too many to list and you wouldn't understand most
>They are all based on 68000 architecture, so wouldn't their capabilities be similar, and the software libraries be similar?
No. It's like saying a Kia and a Ferrari are both roll on wheels so their capabilities should be similar. They are, in that they can get you from point A to point B. But there's more to it than that.

Anonymous Mon Jul 26 07:53:09 2021 No.7980362

>>7980197
X68000 has the same M68k CPU, but it's clocked at a higher speed of 12Mhz. X68K also has a more complex and powerful graphics and sprites hardware. Thus it is expensive but able perform faster. Neither of those computers shared the same graphic processing system.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 26 08:21:53 2021 No.7980403 Built in midi on the St made it a niche device for musicians wanting relatively cheap controller tech. It also had a Yamaha audio synth, as opposed to DACs on the amiga, so quite different design philosophy there

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 26 08:26:58 2021 No.7980409 >As someone who never really experienced the home computer era When do you reckon has it ended?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 26 08:54:37 2021 No.7980441 >>7980409 2006 when PS3/360 era started and consoles surpassed PC.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 26 08:55:48 2021 No.7980443 >>7980409 a few years ago with smartphones and tablets

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 26 08:57:16 2021 No.7980445 >>7980441 >consoles surpassed PC ha ha good joke

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 26 09:00:36 2021 No.7980450 >>7980445 depends on the game

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 26 09:02:11 2021 No.7980453 >>7980441 My computer is still where it was. So are everyone else's. >>7980443 That's a better argument, but those aren't and couldn't have been the demographics that would've used desktops to begin with.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 26 09:02:52 2021 No.7980456 >>7980409 Early 90s when PC-compatibles drove everything else but the Mac from the market.

Anonymous Mon Jul 26 09:09:18 2021 No.7980463

>>7980453
>That's a better argument, but those aren't and couldn't have been the demographics that would've used desktops to begin with.
Not true: the number of boomers who bought computers in the 90s who didn't like or didn't understand computers found *pads MUCH easier to use. Your standard windows 95/98 desktops were very popular, and they were the new *you can do anything* fad at the time.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 26 09:15:00 2021 No.7980473 File: 378 KB, 600x615, ching-chong-potato.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7980441 >consoles surpassed PC

Anonymous Mon Jul 26 10:20:01 2021 No.7980548

>>7980409
By "home computer", I meant "non-IBM PC-compatible/Wintel". Everything PC in use since like the mid 90s is pretty much derived from the lineage of IBM PC-compatibles. The 80s to early 90s had much more variance in popular usage of household computer hardware

Anonymous Mon Jul 26 11:38:21 2021 No.7980628

>>7980456
Amiga had some staying power until the late 90s and jap PCs (9800 series) still had legacy hardware but were pc-compatible hybrids in the late 90s as well.

The final nail was 3d accelerator cards. There was no way you were going to invest in a 3d card on a pc and get access to all the new games and then go out and buy a fucking amiga 4000, or mac performa, or whatever else was shitting along at the time.

Anonymous Mon Jul 26 14:54:15 2021 No.7980993

>>7980548
>By "home computer", I meant "non-IBM PC-compatible/Wintel"
see
>>7980456
early 90s, cd-roms, Doom. It was finally dead when Windows 95 arrived.

>>7980628
>Amiga had some staying power until the late 90s
niche market, not relevant
>and jap PCs
lol
>The final nail was 3d accelerator cards
it was Windows 95

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 27 07:03:02 2021 No.7983120 >>7980993 Amiga was dead and buried long before w95. It was sent to the morgue the day the first VGA card was sold and each subsequent PC improvement was a nail in the coffin. By 95 the coffin looked like a pin cushion.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 27 18:26:48 2021 No.7984429 >>7980197 The Apple Laserwriter and the Macintosh both used a 68k, shouldn't their capabilities be similar?

Anonymous Tue Jul 27 18:33:18 2021 No.7984445

>>7980197

Not really - the software kinda mirrored the difference in their hardware. Amiga was for fun or video and the ST appeared more esoteric and for the "music crowd". I've never met anybody who owned an ST - I saw the machine once in a computer store along the usual suspects(C64, Spectrum, etc).

The step dad of a friend of mine had an Amiga1000 and was a bit of a technical "genius" - so instead of just playing games he wrote his own flight simulator. BAck then I didn't think much of it but now I'm quite impressed that he pulled of developing such a program in his spare time.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 27 19:57:49 2021 No.7984691 >>7984429 I wasn't aware the LaserWriter was a home computer

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 27 20:18:52 2021 No.7984742 >>7984691 >connect to serial >get REPL it totally is actually, lol look up tianaja

Anonymous Tue Jul 27 23:24:20 2021 No.7985173
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>>7980197
They all have a 68000 CPU (at different speeds), but they have difference graphics processing hardware in them.
Some of them would have had custom scrolling and sprite manipulating ASICs in them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Application-specific_integrated_circuit

The differences in these ASICs, or the absence of them makes all the difference.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 27 23:25:58 2021 No.7985176 >>7980441 Just because something is not #1 in the market does not mean it has ended.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 27 23:27:29 2021 No.7985182 >>7980197 The era never ended. We are still using "home computers" more than any alternative for the same things we did 30 years ago.

Anonymous Tue Jul 27 23:28:56 2021 No.7985184

>>7980453
I don't think it's a good argument. It's a variation of /vr/ and /v/'s zero-sum thinking that once something isn't the most popular thing in the world it has "lost" and ceases to exist.

The home computer market continues to exist to this day. In my opinion it has more variety of architecture now than it did 10 years ago.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 27 23:50:04 2021 No.7985230 >>7980197 If you used an Amiga, you were a furry. If you used an Atari ST, you lived in a trailer.

Anonymous Tue Jul 27 23:50:06 2021 No.7985231

>>7985184
>I don't think it's a good argument. It's a variation of /vr/ and /v/'s zero-sum thinking that once something isn't the most popular thing in the world it has "lost" and ceases to exist.
To an extent, but just because I have a virtual machine with 6.22 or the hardware to run it doesn't mean MS-DOS is not well and truly dead.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 28 04:52:37 2021 No.7985629 >>7980295 Great car analogy. You sound like you don't even understand yourself but you want to act pompous anyway.

Anonymous Wed Jul 28 05:32:27 2021 No.7985678

>>7980362
>X68K also has a more complex and powerful graphics and sprites hardware
it was only powerful when it came to tile based modes and sprites. amiga's video is a completely different beast, with coprocessors to handle it all. x68k's video was old tech by 1987 standards.
> Thus it is expensive but able perform faster
> thus
not really. the cpu had to spend more time moving graphics around and executing TSR drivers, things that amiga's custom chips do with a few instructions. I forget the name of the operating system for x68k, but compared to amiga's workbench it was very slow.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 28 08:43:22 2021 No.7985918 >>7983120 >It was sent to the morgue the day the first VGA card was sold that was 1987, the year the amiga 500 was released

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 28 12:08:32 2021 No.7986280 >>7985629 Another baby triggered by a car analogy. vroom vroom zoom zoom >>7985918 Ok, not sent to the morgue. Diagnosed with terminal cancer. Because the 500 was literally cancer.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 28 13:02:51 2021 No.7986413 >>7980295 >i don't have the slightest fucking clue what i'm talking about Then why even bother posting?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 28 13:52:52 2021 No.7986494 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3Ir2QVNM9M ATARI BURNS

Anonymous Wed Jul 28 15:08:07 2021 No.7986641

>>7980197

The Atari ST was basically a reference implementation of a generic 68k computer. It had an 8mhz cpu, 512k - 1024k of ram, 3.5" floppies, and color or monochrome monitors. The OS, named TOS, was a CP/M like environment with GEM laid over it.

It was hot shit in the day - a 16bit computer with a graphical user interface that was MUCH less than a Macintosh.

It came to the market before the Amiga 1000. Atari had a lead. They quickly started to iterate various versions of the basic ST line for the second half of the 80s culminating in the Mega ST. By the 1990 (or so) they had released the STe, Mega STE, TT, and Falcon. They all ran TOS/GEM and there were, of course, compatibility issues between some of the machines (newer machines had newer versions of TOS/GEM). The STe line of machines had enhanced graphics and sound but, of course, few software houses really took advantage of it choosing instead to be remain as compatible as possible with the early STs.

BUT...once Amiga came out with the 500 the ST sort of started this long slow decline. I forget the exact year but I remember having a 500 in 1989 and it smoked the GFX capabilities of the ST. The operating system had multi-tasking, better graphics, and better sound. Then came the 2000, 3000, 4000, 600, 1200, etc.

At the time I was a hard core Atari fan so used to shit on any and all Amiga users because you had to. :) Looking back the Amiga was the more advanced and more capable of the two computer lines. You can take a bog standard Amiga 1200, add a CPU card, and basically smoke any Atari ever made. There are folks who run PPC cards in their 1200s which let them run semi-modern browsers.

Back in the day Amigas were known for games and Ataris for "serious work" (whatever that is).

If you're just wanna play games...get the Amiga first. A stock 1200 provides a good platform to expand on and you'll enjoy it. Get a ST later.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 28 15:11:12 2021 No.7986650 The original ST was like an EGA PC but with a 68000 instead of an x86. Frame buffer graphics and relatively limited sound.

Anonymous Wed Jul 28 15:12:57 2021 No.7986652

>>7980197

I have an Amiga 1200 with a 68030 - 40 accelerator card and 128 megs of ram.

I have a TT030, Mega-STE4, Mega4, and a 260 ST.

Huge Atari nerd but which do I use the most often? The Amiga. Generally better gfx, better sound...

I live in the states and bought all of them (except the Mega4) from Europe. It was cheaper and shipping wasn't bad at all. That'd be my #1 pro-tip. Don't buy retro computers from folks in the US - get them from Europe and swap the ROMs and PSU (if the PSU isn't switching).

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 05:52:07 2021 No.7988137 >>7986413 >i'm a dumb projecting baby Then why even bother posting?

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 06:29:05 2021 No.7988197

>>7980197
while all 3 share the same processor, all configured different things on it differently. all 3 have different other chipsets that manage things differently and allows some do things that the others can't not to mention all have their own operative systems
-the sharp x68000 was a computer focused on videogame development and fanaticism, it aimed to bring arcade quality games to the home.
- the Amiga and Atari ST have similar purposes of bringing multi-purpose power into homes for media creation (which in the end was used mostly for games), the amiga came first showing off some powerful media creation tools and environment that was too expensive for someone to casually consider getting one. the atariST was an answer from atari to it sort of, it was cheaper and not as powerful but yes more than enough to please the home computer market. the Amiga 500 was made as an answer to the ST, it was an Amiga with lower specs but still really capable, an itty bit more powerful than an ST but now a plausible choice as a home computer.

you can't even share disks between these 3 computers,universal formats between different hardware wasn't a common thing at the time, disk writing protocols were also different. you had to heavily rewrite or completely rewrite games if you wanted to release them for these 3 platforms (not to mention that not many titles are shared with the sharp x68 being a japan exclussive). so pretty much there are many things different between them, they are 3 different systems made by 3 companies in a time of little to no universal protocol and format guidelines.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 06:30:10 2021 No.7988201

>>7988197
so p much-

-sharpx68000: cool expensive gamer pc for developers and fanatics
-Amiga: cool expensive media creation-based pc for artists and the industry, later downgraded for a home market
-AtariST: cool not as expensive new 16bit home computer for the common man (that could afford it and care enough to get one) pc

all have cool games, the ST and Amiga share some titles but generally the best versions are on the Amiga. the x68000 is practically separate from them.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 06:47:44 2021 No.7988224 >>7980197 idk, I was American so I had IBM clones instead of Euro cope boxes.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 07:23:23 2021 No.7988258 >>7980403 Calling some shitty AY-3-8910-derivative a "synth" is rather generous.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 07:34:03 2021 No.7988271 >>7988258 But it is literally a synthesizer.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 07:42:05 2021 No.7988280 File: 70 KB, 1024x820, rjuice.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7988224

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 08:11:37 2021 No.7988296 >>7980197 Atari ST was the budget knockoff Amiga, BUT it had MIDI built in and cubase, which was a redeeming feature. Tramiel WISH he had Amiga.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 09:39:43 2021 No.7988395 >>7988137 >i like to larp! Why? Shit's cringe.

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