/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.7891919]

>GBA released in 2001
>DS released in 2004

Was GBA really that much of a failure?

[Anonymous No.7891925]

>>7891919
No. By this exact same logic the GBC was a failure.

[Anonymous No.7891928]

DS was not supposed to be GBA's successor, it was an experimental console at first.

[Anonymous No.7891942]

>GBC released in 1998
>GBA released in 2001

Was GBC really that much of a failure?

[Anonymous No.7891949]

>>7891925
>>7891942
To be fair GBC was really only a slight upgrade to the GB.

GBA on the other hand was a whole new system.

[Anonymous No.7891960]

Nintendo still released games and the Micro after the DS released. It wasn't a Wii U failure where it was abandoned the second BotW launched on Switch. More likely they pushed the DS out to combat Sony's upcoming PSP.

[Anonymous No.7891964]

>>7891925
>>7891949
>>7891942
>GBC
What? Gameboy-cube? How hard is it to just write out the word?

[Anonymous No.7891991]

>>7891919
No, it sold 81 million units and was virtually unrivaled in the handheld department.

>>7891928
He knows.

>>7891942
Also no. It was an upgrade akin to the PS4 Pro. Its legacy is part of the Gameboy, Gameboy Pocket, and Gameboy Light's.

[Anonymous No.7892015]

>>7891919
I hardly knew anyone with an original DS but fucking everyone had a Lite. A lot of people probably held onto their GBAs until 2006.

[Anonymous No.7892025]

>>7891964
Gameboy Color.

[Anonymous No.7892065]

>>7891919
>Was GBA really that much of a failure?

Not a failure at all.The GBA was doing great as far as sales were concerned. But, Sony announced a handheld device in 2003 called the PSP, which has performance somewhere between the PS1 and PS2. This made Nintendo scramble to develop the NDS. Nintendo took a thrashing on the home console market. They were scared that Sony was going to steal the portable market as well.

[Anonymous No.7892074]

>>7891919
It was just SUPER dated tech at launch (as in its newest component being a processor created 8 years prior), which Nintendo were correct in thinking they could get away with especially after the huge long span of Game Boy not having to do barely anything to survive, but there were rumors of the coming Sony competitor toward the end, which was NOT going to be a dinosaur exploiting a market that had no other good options, so they did have to move if they wanted to secure the handheld dominance. The DS was one of Nintendo's best moves to date, tactically.

[Anonymous No.7892107]

>>7892065
>They were scared that Sony was going to steal the portable market as well
Pretty funny in retrospect.
"Oh no, here comes Sony with tech so obsolete it can't even compete with the DS's shitty N64-tier graphics".

[Anonymous No.7892126]

^1/10 bait

[Anonymous No.7892139]

>>7892107
>Pretty funny in retrospect.
>"Oh no, here comes Sony with tech so obsolete it can't even compete with the DS's shitty N64-tier graphics".

The Arm9 in the DS was an upgrade over the Arm7 in the GBA. But the DS does have both Arm9 and the GBA's ARM7, which was used for controlling the bottom screen? I was actually impressed with Metroid Prime Hunters, which I think looks better than anything on the N64.

[Anonymous No.7892163]

>>7891919
No, the games industry moved really fast in those years.

[Anonymous No.7892165]

>>7891919
These things were backwards compatible, so it just made sense to have faster hardware cycles because it's not burning the developers.

[Anonymous No.7892169]

>>7892126
>Pretending that you think a post is bait so you don't have to give a response.
Behold, the worst posters on 4chan.

[Anonymous No.7892172]

>>7891991
I swear, pretending I had a gameboy with one of these was more fun than actually having one... Gave me hope for christmas.

[Anonymous No.7892202]

>>7891919
You people must not remember that there used to be a lot of generation overlap with Nintendo handhelds. All the way through the 3DS, nintendo released a successor to a handheld device and that successor was always backwards compatible with whatever came before it. Systems lived years into the generations.

[Anonymous No.7892256]

>>7891919
Nintendo only cares about making easy money off lazy remakes and selling gimmick controls to casuals.

[Anonymous No.7892326]

If it paid Nintendo's bills and the salaries of their employees it wasn't a failure.

[Anonymous No.7892350]

>nintranny switch released in 2017 (it's only a rebadged nvidia shield that was already 2 years old at the time)
>nintendo hasnt released any console or handheld ever since
Was soitch really that much of a success?

[Anonymous No.7892353]

>>7892350
It sold over 80 million units so yes it is a success. Also not retro you obsessed tranny.

[Anonymous No.7892365]

>>7892353
It is retro because it's the only way you're allowed to play nintrando's retro games legally without having to buy the real thing on ebay.

[Anonymous No.7892380]

>>7891960
I was always suprised how long the GBA held on for. Gamestop still carried gameboy advance games in the early 2010s. The day they finally got rid of them, I remember feeling slightly older. Same thing with the Gamecube to a lesser extent but that got dropped faster.

Also I think zoomers have a tough time understanding transitions don’t take place overnight. The instant gratification of the modern era has warped their perspectives. The DS releasing didn’t instantly end the GBA’s existence - a couple million units were sold after the DS got released.

[Anonymous No.7892417]

>>7892365
>It is retro because it's the only way you're allowed to play nintrando's retro games legally without having to buy the real thing on ebay.
wiiu virtual console
nes/snes mini
new game & watch
nintendo sucks lol

[Anonymous No.7892419]

>>7892380
>Gamestop still carried gameboy advance games in the early 2010s.
Why lie like this?

[Anonymous No.7892480]

>>7892139
DS is a funny comparison to 5th gen because some ports showed harsh limits, had to have shorter draw distances or limited enemy counts, there's no aliasing or blur allowed so it's not like N64, the textures and vertices are precise and perspective-correct unlike PSX and Saturn, and then if you upscale a game in emu, you find out half the game is using 7th-gen console sized 1024x1024 oversized textures for no actual reason. It's not utter nonsense but the deeper you go the less it compares to... anything, really. DS is just a weird console.

[Anonymous No.7892483]

>>7892480
DS is 64bit like N64.

[bruce3434 No.7892490]

>>7891964
Holy shit dude

[Anonymous No.7892501]

>>7892483
And the Jaguar and the Commodore 64.

[Anonymous No.7892506]

>>7892501
They ought to allow DS to be discussed here but ban 6th gen consoles.

[Anonymous No.7892509]

>>7892506
Agreed.
DS and PSP: retro
Dreamcast: retro
PS2 xbox transcube: >>>/v/

[Anonymous No.7892513]

>>7892483
32 bit, both CPUs. No texture blur at all compared to mandatory blur. Textures drastically larger. About 2/3 the CPU speed on main and then about 1/3 on the other CPU, which wasn't able to do the same breadth of tasks. Hard polygon limit as well, it couldn't just slow down to render more like a 5th gen console.

It's a pretty different system anon, and the lower single-thread performance and polygon limit meant that the same games had to be made completely differently if ported.

[Anonymous No.7892515]

>>7892480
It would have been such a great system for big-screen console style emulation if not for the dual display and touchscreen function.

[Anonymous No.7892516]

>>7892509

[Anonymous No.7892517]

>>7892509
>transcube
Lole. Do you think suggesting this on IRC would have any possible outcome?

[Anonymous No.7892521]

GBA released before I started High School, DS released as I was finishing High School. To me it felt like I had the GBA forever, it lasted me all of High School. As jaded adults 3 1/2 years doesn't seem like much but as kid or even teenager that's a huge chunk of time and a shitload of things happen in that time. To me it did feel like it was time to change to a new system.

Zoomers might feel different since they grew up in an age where the 360 and PS3 were consoles for nearly a decade, same with PS4 etc. To them it's normal to have one console last forever. To me as a kid you needed to change every 3 years.

[Anonymous No.7892525]

>>7892513
Yes, but it's still 64bit, at least. And feels more retro than the others. Definitely more retro than gaylo being discussed here.

[Anonymous No.7892526]

>>7892513
32 + 32 = 64

[Anonymous No.7892535]

>>7892525
>still 64bit
No idea where you keep getting this. I agree that it's a pretty retro console and was great, but 64bit is just not true.

[Anonymous No.7892539]

>>7892535
I must be wrong then. I have been saying that it was 64bit for years now. Oh.

[Anonymous No.7892547]

>>7891919
GBA was originally supposed to be released around the time the GBC was, but it was delayed to allow time for refinements to the hardware to ensure it was power-efficient and compact- they were playing it very safe after the failure of the Virtual Boy.

Because of this I figure the DS's development was already well underway before the GBA even released, and they likely pushed it out quickly due to the imminent release of the PSP announced at E3 2003- but they weren't certain if consumers would embrace the transgressive dual-screen design, so they initially marketed it as a "third pillar/experiment" so they could easily bail themselves out if it turned-out to be a flop. Sure enough the DS was a major success and potential plans for a more traditional GBA successor were abandoned by early 2006.

[Anonymous No.7892565]

>>7891919
The only thing Nintendo has done right in the last 25 years has been their handhelds.

[Anonymous No.7892569]

>>7892565
Ever heard of the New 3DS? They repeated all of the mistakes of the Wii U, but even more stupidly.

[Anonymous No.7892573]

>>7892065
I think this was a partial motivator at most.

[Anonymous No.7892598]

>>7891964
zoom zoom

[Anonymous No.7892602]

>>7892547
The only reason I have to doubt this is that the DS would never have had to take the dual screen and touch screen risk if the PSP weren't looming. Nintendo knew that it would be both dubious and costly to try to race a dedicated hardware manufacturer like Sony at specs, so employing the "different but innovative" strategy made sense in the context of the PSP - players could prefer the alternative gimmicks to raw power despite not having the same money put into them, and even if the worst happened and it outsold the DS (which it didn't, obviously), they would still have a niche assured because it would always have things the PSP didn't.

As opposed to if they're thinking of just the GBA, there's really not much reason not to continue advancing normally, they don't need to consider niches in the handheld market for any real reason, and seeing if they can get a product that only needs to advance at the Game Boy's rate again behind technically achievable hardware while people still buy it, would be the dream. I don't think they'd do it. There's also devs talking about how the first DS shape was like a late prototype and how Nintendo really wanted to have it look more like the Lite - people were surprised it went into production nearly as-is from what they were developing on. That says "tight timeline development" to me.

[Anonymous No.7893174]

>>7892107
left soulless 3d
right soul sprites

[Anonymous No.7893207]

DS was Iwatas weird blue ocean experiment. Gameboy backwards compatibility was their insurance in case it flopped.

[Anonymous No.7893217]

>>7892074
>It was just SUPER dated tech at launch
Handheld consoles were always held back in terms of hardware in order to keep power efficiency in check and costs down. Compared to its competitors, the GBA was a pretty beefy machine.

[Anonymous No.7893228]

>>7892139
The DS's ARM7 CPU is used for wifi and handling some inputs like the touch screen. Nintendo prohibited developers from using it except to run official library code, so it mostly sits idle in retail games.

There's some homebrew which uses it. SnemulDS was able to use the ARM7 CPU for asynchronous audio emulation.

[Anonymous No.7893395]

>>7891919
If anything Nintendo was expecting the DS to be the failure.

[Anonymous No.7893414]

>>7892065
Nintendo has been insanely defensive over their handheld business through the years, they know what butters their bread

[Anonymous No.7893493]

>>7891964
the rule change was a mistake

[Anonymous No.7893614]

>>7892169
It’s either bait or that anon is such a Nintendo fag that he can’t be reasoned with.

[Anonymous No.7893686]

>>7892107
PSP was a pretty major competitor though. It sold about 80m units over its lifetime. I've noticed a lot of people forget this. For various reasons the Vita faltered hard though and Sony exited the market. Damn shame, as both were great systems and Nintendo's current lack of any competitor has made them distinctly lazier.

[Anonymous No.7895581]

>>7892065
>>7892074
And that's why the DS had hardware that didn't even try to compete no?

[Anonymous No.7896026]

>>7895581
The DS evolved in a separate direction. Like the Wii Nintendo knew they couldn't compete with raw performance so they added hardware gimmicks instead.

[Anonymous No.7896036]

>>7893686
The issue with the Vita was with the memory cards and underwhelming launch titles.

[Anonymous No.7896037]

>>7893217
And the gameboy brand was always preferable to battery munching alternatives.

[Anonymous No.7896038]

>>7892569
New 3DS was fine, wtf are you talking about? It was just a late stage revision.

[Anonymous No.7896041]

>>7896036
The Vita's launch titles were pretty good. Wipeout 2048 remains one of the platform's best games. The console's last big hitter was Gravity Rush though.

[Anonymous No.7896042]

>>7892525
You understand N64 is a 32-bit console, right? The CPU had a totally unused 64-bit mode.

[Anonymous No.7896070]

>>7896042
64 bit operations weren't unused, just rare.

[Anonymous No.7896134]

>>7896036
The issue with the Vita was trying to compete with Nintendo.

Nintendo doesn't sell their consoles at a loss.
$250 for a launch 3DS netted Nintendo a tidy profit.
Sony tried to pricematch the 3DS and set the cost at $250; in doing so they took a fairly huge loss on each unit sold.
Their strategy was to make up for the loss by selling proprietary memory cards (also an antipiracy measure) at a hefty premium. It wasn't until you bought a Vita, a memory card, and a game that Sony saw one cent in profit. This was an extremely risky strategy, compared to just charging $350 for it like they should have.
Nintendo saw the Vita's $250 pricetag, immediately dropped the 3DS's price to $170 right before the holiday season (taking a loss until production was streamlined), and completely gutted Sony.

If they hadn't tried to compete it wouldn't have forced Nintendo's hand, and things might have played out differently.

[Anonymous No.7896146]

>>7896134
>(also an antipiracy measure)
wrong

[Anonymous No.7896154]

>>7891925
GBC isn't really a new console. It's like 3ds and new 3ds

[Anonymous No.7896184]

>>7893174
>low poly
>soulless
lol

[Anonymous No.7896390]

>>7892065
This, though ironically the DS was sold more on novelty than actually capable hardware, just like the Wii. Also like the Wii, the amount of shovelware made for it combined with Nintendo's desire to put gimmick controls into all their big franchises really made for a dark period, I really have no idea why people have so much nostalgia for it, the GBA was a superior console through and through.

>>7892139
People are always impressed with Nintendo because they always do the absolute bare minimum. I remember both SM64 and Metroid Prime Hunters looking like the pixelated mess that they are. I got a DS again when I went to college (when the DSi released), and there isn't a single positive thing I can say about any of the DS lineup. The DS was underpowered even in comparison to a PS1, clearly missing an analog stick and now with two dumb screens with a smaller aspect ratio. It was half-baked hardware that was marketed properly, like the Wii.

>>7892547
The DS wasn't trangessive at all. Touch controls were the equivalent of waggle controls for the handheld market, and it made the console far more appealing to the average kid, as opposed to the GBA which was a gamer's handheld more than anything.

>>7893686
This, and it's also the better console in retrospect, though for the both of them a large part of their catalog was made up of enhanced ports and lesser quality spin-offs. That said, I remember booting up GTA LCS and being amazed that it basically looked like a PS2 game, whereas SM64DS just made me feel like I was playing a bizzarro version of that game, now without analog controls.

[Anonymous No.7896398]

>>7896134
>It wasn't until you bought a Vita, a memory card, and a game that Sony saw one cent in profit
>source: my ass

[Anonymous No.7896409]

>>7896390
>The DS was underpowered even in comparison to a PS1, clearly missing an analog stick
stopped reading there

[Anonymous No.7896430]

>>7896036
those fucking memory cards, man

[Anonymous No.7896437]

>>7896430
You can get a microSD adapter that goes in the game-card slot for use with CFW, but it was a pretty stiff biscuit back in the day.
The proprietary memory wasn't exactly popular with consumers, and when Nintendo did that 250>170 pricedrop for the 3DS it all but crucified the Vita.

[Anonymous No.7896456]

>>7896437
I don't think that was enough. Don't forget how weak the early 3DS library was. I'd say the release of MH3U was when the 3DS solidified its lead over the Vita.

[Anonymous No.7896471]

>>7896456
bro, the vita was never even a fart in the wind. the 3DS was never, ever in competition with that thing.

[Anonymous No.7896474]

>>7891919
>>7892065
The DS was called the city boy at one point to compete with the psp

[Anonymous No.7896479]

>>7896471
The Vita had a stronger early library and competitive price. It had a chance.

[Anonymous No.7896484]

>>7896479
>stronger library
lol
>competitive price
LOL yeah until you bought a memory card. you are delusional you stinky fuck. the thing was a piece of trash, get over it.

[Anonymous No.7896487]

>>7896484
Tell me what good games the 3DS had in 2012.

[Anonymous No.7896492]

>>7896487
>let me insert an arbitrary year into the argument to prove my abortion of a handheld wasn't dogshit for 6 months
the N64 remakes alone were better than anything ever releases on Vita and the ability to play every DS game was, alone, a better argument for owning one. I bet you really enjoyed your handheld version of Uncharted but apparently nobody else did because nobody bought the console.

[Anonymous No.7896497]

>>7896492
>arbitrary year
Get better reading comprehension.

[Anonymous No.7896529]

>>7896497
get a better handheld LOL

[Anonymous No.7896568]

>>7896409

SM64, a game literally designed around the use of an analog stick, was a launch title for it. Nevermind that most games tried making up for that by using the screen as a makeshift analog stick. It was clearly missing one, you're just an idiot nintendrone.

[Anonymous No.7896590]

>>7896568
Sure, that's not why that was a particularly stupid thing to say though.

[Anonymous No.7896592]

>>7896492
Not him, and I do prefer the 3DS, but there a bunch of games that people now praise on the Switch, PS4 and PC were originally Vita exclusives (Persona 4 Golden, Gravity Rush, Digimon Cyber Sleuth, Wipeout 2048, Danganronpa, etc). The Vita also received a bunch of enhanced PS2 and even PS3 ports, and was backwards compatible with both the PSP and the PS1; it's a pretty great console, and nowhere near as anemic as people want to argue.

[Anonymous No.7896602]

>>7896036
I remember finding it to be a pretty strong launch. I bought it at release and played Lumines, Uncharted and Wipeout quite a bit. Lumines was actually how I knew things weren't going well. It had a global feature where you'd hit combined scores from everyone playing to unlock more stuff and it wasn't even close to reaching the levels they had expected. I still believe the Vita was one of the best pieces of hardware though, and regardless of that just giving some competition in the space is valuable. But, such is life.

>>7896390
Yep, PSP was great. The library in general was better by quite a bit. DS and 3DS had EBA and Theatrhythm though which were two games I loved that did use the touch controls in a reasonable way. I believe the two having to fight improved both.

[Anonymous No.7896603]

>>7896590
And I don't see any arguments in your defense.

[Anonymous No.7896606]

>>7896603
In defense of what? A statement that was only made in your head? Fuck off, retard.

[Anonymous No.7896629]

>>7896606
Because if you point out a flaw in someone's argument then you provide a counter, you bumbling imbecile.

[Anonymous No.7896637]

>>7896568
I wonder if they purposefully didn't include an analog stick to show off the touch screen. If so, whoa nelly, that didn't work well.

[Anonymous No.7896653]

>>7896629
I'll spell out for you everything that was wrong with that you said, which just to be perfectly clear has nothing to do with what you supposed it was.

> The DS was underpowered even in comparison to a PS1, clearly missing an analog stick and now with two dumb screens with a smaller aspect ratio.
The DS was not underpowered compared to the PS1. In fact the game you chose as a comparison, SM64, has more detailed models and textures throughout (art style not withstanding) and that's compared to a console which was already more powerful than the PS1.
Missing an analog stick has nothing to do with power.
The PS1 didn't have analog sticks until halfway through its life anyway.
The screens are the same aspect ratio, the vast majority of 5th gen games were 4:3. Perhaps you meant resolution?

>>7896637
Yeah, that was the plan actually. The lanyard on the fat DS had a thumb strap that you were supposed to use in that manner. It sucked balls.

[Anonymous No.7896667]

>>7891919
not at all. both systems have incredible libraries. i would know i own most of the games worth having for both.
also, if any anons have suggestions on hidden gems i might not know please do so, thanks in advance.

[Anonymous No.7896693]

>>7896653
Yeah, I did know that. I mean I was wondering if the thumb thing on the lanyard was meant actively as a way to compete with analog sticks. So, not just that they didn't have an analog stick and used the touch screen with the lanyard thing to make up for it, but that they consciously decided to not have an analog stick to show off how good the touchscreen was?

I think I agree with you, and that was the intent as they finally did the obvious thing with the 3DS. Plus, Nintendo has a history of loving it's gimmicks.

[Anonymous No.7896720]

>>7896653
Properly explaining yourself is what you should have done from the get go, you dolt, you're not "spelling out" anything. Anyhow,

>The DS was not underpowered compared to the PS1. In fact the game you chose as a comparison, SM64, has more detailed models and textures throughout (art style not withstanding) and that's compared to a console which was already more powerful than the PS1.

SM64DS has more detailed models and textures throughout... than what? Every single game on the PS1? Than on the N64? You're clearly blind going for either, though we can actually go with a game that's in both consoles, like Resident Evil, which has comparable, but still underperfoming, visuals on the DS. The pre-rendered backrounds and FMVs are worse, which aligns with my comment on the DS being underpowered even in comparison to a PS1. At any rate, it had worse visuals than the N64 (especially due to its complete lack of anti-aliasing), while the PSP had no struggle surpassing its 5th gen predecessor, and was even comparable to a PS2 at times. Hell, even the Final Fantasy IV remake on the DS looks inferior to something like Final Fantasy IX, and they both embrace a cartoony aesthetic. Let alone that the DS hardware was far from being ambitious, it was basically a double-up GBA (like, almost literally), which is why it excels in SNES ports, and the 3D games suffer from sever pixelation.

>The PS1 didn't have analog sticks until halfway through its life anyway.
... and yet both it and the Saturn felt it completely necessary to revamp the the controller mid-cycle. When was the last time you saw this?

>The screens are the same aspect ratio, the vast majority of 5th gen games were 4:3. Perhaps you meant resolution?
The GBA's aspect ratio is somewhere between 16:9 and 4:3, the DS is 4:3, which feels off when you're supposed to be playing a successor (regardless of it being marketed initially as a side console).

[Anonymous No.7896759]

>>7891919
At the time, Nintendo was claiming that the DS was the “third pillar” of their product lineup. That turned out to be BS of course once the DS became a huge success.

[Anonymous No.7896772]

>>7896720
Than its original version on N64, idiot.
>hurr durr why does a console using cartridges have lower resolution fmvs than a console using optical discs
yep you're retarded

[Anonymous No.7896790]

>>7896390
>it made the console far more appealing to the average kid, as opposed to the GBA which was a gamer's handheld

[Anonymous No.7896794]

>>7896790
I don't understand what the controversial part of that statement is.

[Anonymous No.7896838]

>>7896759
I think they were just hedging their bets in case the NDS failed.

[Anonymous No.7897001]

>>7893686
>I've noticed a lot of people forget this
Those people weren't born back in 2004, anon. You can't forget what you didn't learn.