/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.7889268]

Anybody else think PVM users might as well just get an OSSC and play on a flat panel?
Modern TVs are below 1 frame input lag. CRTs are an aesthetic choice now. The choice is that you want to play the games in the same way the developer expected them to be played, on the same kind of display people played the game on when it came out- Or even what you yourself played it on.
No one played games on a PVM with razor sharp pixels and scan lines. In the discussion of an authentic experience, I don't see how it's any more authentic than playing on a flat screen TV with a lagless converter. You're still using technology no one played games on until a few years ago, it just happens to be technology that's older than that application

[Anonymous No.7889271]

>>7889268
>Anybody else think PVM users might as well just get an OSSC and play on a flat panel?
no

[Anonymous No.7889273]

I'll add that it sucks that there aren't any good consumer CRTs that support 480p but there really are very few games that support that, unless you're spending $5000 on one of the few PVMs that can do that it really isn't an argument in its favor.
Plus PVMs are tiny. How are you going to play it with friends?

[Anonymous No.7889279]

>>7889268
Anybody else think that anons who think that PVMs look like LCDs have only seen pictures of a PVM and never the real thing

[Anonymous No.7889330]

>>7889279
Probably. It doesn't help that these photos usually display in 1x resolution which is way too fucking small on a modern screen. I'd be interested how these games look on a high end low-res LCD though.

[Anonymous No.7889348]

>>7889268
Honestly you wouldn't even need to go that far. There are some CRT shaders on libretro cores that are so well-done that slapping that shit on an OLED makes for little discernable difference nowadays. There's less and less reason nowadays to even bother with a CRT if you just want to play vidya while being faithful to the original look.

[Anonymous No.7889354]

I want to play Time Crisis 2 with its Guncon without a dumber setup than the CRT one

[Anonymous No.7889432]

>>7889268
>Anybody else think PVM users might as well just get an OSSC and play on a flat panel?
Well, you already said they have a PVM, and maybe they don't already have an OSSC, so why would they now spend more money if they already have an option they like? And if they have a good quality CRT, that doesn't mean the necessarily have a good quality LCD.
>CRTs are an aesthetic choice now.
Yes, and maybe they prefer it.
>No one played games on a PVM with razor sharp pixels and scan lines.
I'm sure some game dev studios had high quality displays. Plus, you lose some of that sharpness if you go through composite video, which is indeed an option on many pro monitors.
>I don't see how it's any more authentic than playing on a flat screen TV with a lagless converter.
A CRT of any kind is closer to the intended display than an LCD for most retro console games.
>You're still using technology no one played games on until a few years ago
People have been buying pro monitors for games for more than a few years, though I guess that depends on your definition of "few."
I bought my pro CRTs before prices completely went to shit and I'm more than happy with them, so I don't see why I'd go out of my way to buy an OSSC now.
Honestly, your post sounds like somebody who got an OSSC and is trying to shit on people who use another method just to feel more confident in your choice. I honestly don't care how anybody plays their games.

[Anonymous No.7889562]

>>7889268
What's with you people and the constant copium with CRTs/PVMs? Just buy one and get over it already, there is no need for these mental gymnastics.
>You're still using technology no one played games on until a few years ago
The devs used them if you look up 90s developer office photos you will see high quality monitors everywhere. They also had consumer sets around but you better believe they enjoyed working and playing games on high quality A/V stuff.

[Anonymous No.7889601]

>>7889268
Anybody else think OP is a faggot?

[Anonymous No.7889609]

>>7889268
yes but like >>7889279 said i've never seen a PVM in person.

[Anonymous No.7889992]

>>7889562
Devs had regular consumer TVs to test their games on because they knew that's how the vast majority of people would play their games. Hence stuff like Mega Drive relying heavily on blending dithering.

[Anonymous No.7890739]

>>7889268
There is still the issue of flat panels having unbearable motion blur, this is especially bad for 2d games. I would sooner never play a single game again in my entire life then suffer it on a flat panel.

[Anonymous No.7890971]

>>7890739
Black frame insertion. Stop buying cheap displays.

[Anonymous No.7891068]

>>7889271
fpbp

[Anonymous No.7891294]

>>7890739
Phosphor blur is just as bad

[Anonymous No.7891314]

>>7889268
hand-me-down low end consumer CRT with a little burn-in and rf cables for that nostalgic feel

[Anonymous No.7891372]

>>7889268
There are some older PVMs that have a lower TVL count which look amazing for playing retro games and an LCD is just not going to get that color and contrast of a PVM.
But when it comes to the high TVL count PVMs and BVMs I think you have a point. The scanlines are just too noticeable and pixels appear as little squares as if you were playing in 2x scaling 640x480. In some cases this makes the image look less detailed.

[Anonymous No.7891438]

>>7889268
>Modern TVs are below 1 frame input lag. CRTs are an aesthetic choice now.
nice try samsung shill

[Anonymous No.7891449]

>>7889268
>Anybody else think PVM users might as well just get an OSSC and play on a flat panel?
you've got a lot of shit in your skull if you think everyone's just gonna up and do one thing because you want to

[Anonymous No.7891460]

>>7889268
Nah I'm good with my pvm thanks. Looks great on composite

[Anonymous No.7891532]

>>7891314
are you me?

[Anonymous No.7891540]

>when you parents get you a commodore and you connect your NES to the commodore monitor and never use the commodore itself

[Anonymous No.7891557]

>>7891540
Commodore monitors make excellent NES monitors.

[Anonymous No.7891561]

>>7891540
>>7891557
>the nes had chroma-luma out
stop larping

[Anonymous No.7891581]

>>7891561

[Anonymous No.7891593]

>>7891581
cool obscure model that didn't come with the systems

[Anonymous No.7891929]

>>7891593
you should quit while you're behind.

[Anonymous No.7892008]

If you turn on black frame insertion on a modern 120hz display the motion blur isn't a thing either
https://www.testufo.com/blackframes

[Anonymous No.7892019]

>>7892008
Even with black insertion my 144Hz monitor can't come close to my F520...

[Anonymous No.7892030]

>>7891593
>1702
>Obscure
Ask me how I know you're underage

[Anonymous No.7892043]

>>7891593
It's not obscure and it is in fact a Commodore Monitor.
There's also a JVC version that is identical except for a slightly lower TVL tube and lack of s-video input. But it's still a very good NES monitor.

[Anonymous No.7892048]

>>7891561
no u

[Anonymous No.7892050]

>>7890971
Doesn't that lower image brightness? Then you need a high nit display too.

[Anonymous No.7892208]

>>7891294
This. No one talks about phosphor decay. I don't fucking get this perfect motion clarity CRT meme.

[Anonymous No.7892276]

>>7892050
If you have a friend who can afford one, you need to see it for yourself

[Anonymous No.7892279]

>>7892208
it's because it's not as noticeable
you'll see it with bright objects on dark backgrounds
you'll also see motion blur if your frame rate doesn't match the refresh rate of your monitor
outside of those instances, CRTs have much better motion clarity than LCDs, and LCDs are still shit in those instances, they just dont have super obvious afterimages that cause a trail.

[Anonymous No.7892336]

>>7889279
add scanlines? I know it's not going to look like this but face it, if there was some super rare crt where the scanlines were a uniform thickness you faggots would drain your bank account. A pvm is closer to an LCD yet more desirable. Emulator users that have 100% image quality want shaders that simulate a consumer CRT.

[Anonymous No.7892339]

>>7892336

[Anonymous No.7892375]

>>7889268
I don't own a TV. I can emulate on my computer or hook a ossc up to the monitor. But with a 24" lcd monitor it wouldd still be about the same size screen as a 14" pvm.

[Anonymous No.7892407]

>>7892339
Are those analogue super nt scan lines?

I sold mine for a mister which has turbo autists working on it so it has better everything. Here’s the mister with the snes scanline filter outputting 1080p on a 4k tv

[Anonymous No.7892410]

>>7892407
And heres my sony pvm

[Anonymous No.7892574]

>>7889268
Show me a scaler that can produce a better standard definition picture than a 14m2u, pro tip - you can't.

[Anonymous No.7893764]

>>7889348
A lot of old rhythm games still require original hardware and CRTs to be playable, even the slight input lag of modern monitors is too much for the timing

[Anonymous No.7893776]

>>7893764
Nobody plays those

And if you're going to respond saying you do please kill yourself

[Anonymous No.7893785]

>>7893776
I do

[Anonymous No.7893793]

>>7892336
You're confused. A good PVM has unmatched colours, geometry, purity, and convergence, while still having all of the qualities that make CRTs a lot better than digital panels

[Anonymous No.7893803]

>>7893785
you should be ashamed of yourself

[Anonymous No.7893805]

>>7893776
I do

[Anonymous No.7894950]

>>7889562
What the fuck is wrong with that guy's face

[Anonymous No.7894962]

>>7894950
lol, never noticed that, looks like he's nodding

[Anonymous No.7895110]

As someone with a recent model OLED and a nice CRT - 120hz BFI can clean up motion blur a bit but to get it to really low levels you have to use it with motion interpolation. It's great for watching football/basketball etc but input lag goes way up once you turn on any smoothing. Also, you can't use BFI at the same time as VRR on any display I'm aware of yet. I tried using an OSSC with my OLED and it looked good, but not perfect actually since unless stuff is fairly normal resolutions it'll letterbox stuff weird or scale it in a way where you see uneven scanlines, etc. Until there's a scaler that just outputs 4k, emulators with shaders are the way to go on high end modern displays. But I don't really fuck with that all too often either, so much easier to just fire up the CRT and have everything look great and work perfect with no configuring or setup

[Anonymous No.7895162]

>>7894950
*faces

[Anonymous No.7895414]

>>7893764
>>7893805
I've beaten the entire PaRappa series on the PS Store on a LCD
Very likely harder than CRT + original hardware but certainly playable

[Anonymous No.7896769]

>>7892574
I've taken to adding noise and/or scanline shaders to older TV shows. It really fills in the gaps and makes it look better.

[Anonymous No.7896815]

>>7895414
That's just sad.

[Anonymous No.7897525]

>>7896815
PaRappa series has good music anon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nInx3LZvZ3Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8FHp_NtphU

[Anonymous No.7897664]

>>7889562
How many mouths does he have?

[Anonymous No.7898018]

>>7889268
We've been through this shit dozens of times before

Tl;dr
1. Motion is still shit due to low brightness(MicroLED will solve this)
2. Input lag is still shit on average due to electronics being used on Monitors/TV's(can be and will be fixed in the future)
3. Not enough resolution to emulate masks properly(8K+ is needed minimum).
4. Lightguns will never work without modification due to how modern displays work. CRT's used to work in a much more predictable pattern. Only chance we have for unmodifiied Lightguns working is if somebody makes Boutigue Retro Gaming Displays 10-15 years from now which work in the same predictable fashion as CRTs.

There, all covered.
Somebody save this pasta and post it whenever people post about this shit.

[Anonymous No.7898043]

>>7889330
>I'd be interested how these games look on a high end low-res LCD though.
Better yet low res LED Matrices
Look at pic related and this video
https://youtu.be/S6K-BOHHbzU?t=1829

It looks pretty awesome, especially with circular pixels.
This kinda look can be done with shaders too just depends how much resolution and brightness you need(and really it's better to emulate it with shaders since with the real thing you're stuck to just one resolution)

[Anonymous No.7898065]

>>7895110
Play sonic the hedgehog 1 or 2 and when running try and see if you clearly see the shapes of the landscape or if it just looks like a smear of blur. On a crt there is no blur at all.

>>7889268
I've never seen one in person but a vga monitor is getting close to a flat panel but a commodore monitor in rgb looks great.

[Anonymous No.7898097]

>>7898065
The anon you quoted knows that.
Recent OLEDs can do 4ms MPRT albeit at like 70 nits.
It's pretty smooth but still far from the best CRTs which were 1ms(not to mention that using BFI on OLED in conjunction with heavy shaders is pretty much impossible because the screen gets way too dim for use).

The brightness issue is a still huge hurdle and will probably only be solved with MicroLED if not with extremely high brightness LCD's.
Need around 5000 to 10000 nits though.

[Anonymous No.7898103]

>>7889273
300 € in germany

[Anonymous No.7898194]

>>7898018
>1. Motion is still shit due to low brightness(MicroLED will solve this)
This is such a meme by this point

[Anonymous No.7898332]

>>7897525
>faggot with sheep fetish missed the point
shocker

[Anonymous No.7898604]

>>7898332
Am I a faggot or do I want to fuck the girl sheep, make up your mind

[Anonymous No.7898734]

>>7893793
So you're saying a good PVM is accurate, like a digital panel.

[Anonymous No.7898752]

>>7898734
>while still having all of the qualities that make CRTs a lot better than digital panels

[Anonymous No.7898890]

>>7898604
You want to fuck the boy sheep, which makes you gay and you're also a faggot, faggot.

[Anonymous No.7898975]

>>7898890
Lammy's a girl, did you even play the sheep rhythm game

[Anonymous No.7899089]

I prefer the look of consumer CRTs as long as it has at least a S video input

[Anonymous No.7899152]

>>7889268
Probably bittertalking here but given the overpricing of PVM in my country, I tend to think its more the new conspicuous sign of wealth for the manchild living accross the road than anything enjoyable or even useful.

[Anonymous No.7899280]

>>7898975
What does that have to do with the fact that you want to fuck boy sheep?

[Anonymous No.7899318]

>>7889268
>might as well just get an OSSC
No, for fuck sake just emulate if you're playing on flat panels.
Old consoles weren't built to output to 1080p-4K TVs. Spending money on an OSSC, RGB mods and cables is pointless when you could just get a device to emulate several consoles and outputs the exact image you're trying to achieve with an OSSC with additional options too.