/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.7885494]

Why did reviewers during the 5th gen get so angry at 2D games for still existing?

[Anonymous No.7885502]

>>7885494
They did the same thing for a review of Doom64

It read something like
>This is just the same old archiac doom. If you played it anywhere else. You played it here.
>Don't waste your time and money on a game like this
>When we have games of the future like Turok
LMAO i swear that was a real review from the 90s

[Anonymous No.7885557]

>>7885494
Marketing. Convince people to make the jump to 3D consoles by shitting on the old, 2D stuff. Sony used to not even allow 2D PlayStation games to even come to the US unless they got their arm twisted into it by developers with clout, like Capcom.
This was mainly an American thing and it didn't happen in Japan, not sure why. Maybe arcade culture was too strong there to really get away with disrespecting 2D too much?

[Anonymous No.7885578]

>>7885494
Because 2D games are outdated garbage. I literally can't stand playing Super Mario Bros, but I could play 64 for hours. I think unless you have nostalgia for the 2D era or brain damage of some kind, it's pretty obvious that 3d is required for a gaming experience that really challenges the mind.

[Anonymous No.7885581]

I'm not sure what I am really looking at with the N64 screenshots. But I have played SOTN, and I know the Library and that boss.

On one hand, Sony pushed away 2D to help sell the 3D capabilities of their console early on. But later, they did allow 2D games when 3D was no longer really a selling point. Nintendo clearly wanted to get into 3D. MIPS showed Nintendo a prototype first.

[Anonymous No.7885582]

>>7885494
It's what was in at the time and it's what people wanted. It wasn't so much some kind of vast conspiracy as it was just the fact that 3D was considered the standard now and if you weren't 3D it's just cause you were lazy and incompetent.
Obviously that mentality thankfully faded for the most part. Though now it's been replaced with hyper realistic graphics st the cost of everything else including gameplay and performance so eh

[Anonymous No.7885591]

Are there any 2D games on the N64? I have like 10 n64 games and I’m aware of quite a few more but I can’t think of a single 2D games in the lineup.
I’m not talking about 2.5D like Kirb64 btw

[Anonymous No.7885609]

>>7885591
>Are there any 2D games on the N64? I have like 10 n64 games and I’m aware of quite a few more but I can’t think of a single 2D games in the lineup.
>I’m not talking about 2.5D like Kirb64 btw


Yoshi's Story, and Mischief Makers/ come to mind.

[Anonymous No.7885610]

SOTN is kinda trash desu. The game has a really strong opening and makes you think it's more fun than it really is but the cracks like how easy it is, how pointless a lot of the features feel and the overall forgetfulness of most of the areas start to grow wider and wider ad it goes on and really make it a much weaker experience then a lot of people realize

[Anonymous No.7885786]

>>7885609
Isnt there some fighter game from japan thats 2d?

[Anonymous No.7885791]

>>7885786
No

[Anonymous No.7885841]

>>7885786
you may be thinking of Rakugakids, which is 3D but uses characters meant to look like 2D children drawings

[Anonymous No.7885907]

>>7885494
Videogame "journalists" have always been retards.

It's the industry you get into if you can't hack it at a real media job and you're willing to suck a dick or two to get your foot in the door.

[Anonymous No.7885920]

>>7885610
Yeah but compare it to Castlevania 64. It’s an incredibly janky looking game that could be forgiven had it released in 1997 but no, it came out mid-generation in 1999.

[Anonymous No.7885940]

>>7885494
pressure from game publishers/console makers who were trying to push 3d games to normies

[Anonymous No.7886001]

>>7885494
>>7885494
Because most of the "reviews" from that era were literally written by literal teenagers and young adults.
Video Game reviewing/analysis was a novelty at the time so there were no adequate editors, and nor did they care for the actual quality of the writing.

[Anonymous No.7886005]

>>7885610
SotN is only easy if you know how to exploit it. Granted, there are loads of ways to do so, but nonetheless, a new player is unlikely to stumble upon any of them other than the 99 item limit, and even that one isn't super pertinent since the game does not have an easy way for the player to farm money
And I do enjoy the sheer number of features they crammed into the game, even if some were poorly thought out (the transformations come to mind). The core game works great, and all the rest is a sign of a game that someone really wanted to make

[Anonymous No.7886014]

>>7885494
3D fags in the 90’s were the ray tracing fags of today.

[Anonymous No.7886084]

>>7885609
Mortal Kombat Trilogy
Mickey's Magical Tetris
Super Robot Wars 64

[Anonymous No.7886096]

>>7886014
So correct?

[Anonymous No.7886108]

>>7885557
>This was mainly an American thing and it didn't happen in Japan, not sure why
But it did happen in Japan... within the walls of Nintendo, at least. Miyamoto has always had a complex about games not being 3D and immersive enough, and that's why it took till 2006 to get another 2D Mario game (and I suspect it's why even then the NSMB games have always had soulless prerendered graphics and not hand-drawn pixel art like the old days).

[Anonymous No.7886112]

>>7885578
Weak bait.

[Anonymous No.7886142]

>>7885557
>clout
zoom zoom

[Anonymous No.7886186]

>>7885591
Bangai-o

[Anonymous No.7886263]

>>7885494
The same reason some people here hate 3D games.
They believe that 2D and 3D cannot co-exist without one taking away from the other. More 3D games means less 2D games and more 2D games means less 3D games. If you happen to like one more than the other then it will seem as if enjoyment has been taken away from you, ripped straight out of your hands.

[Anonymous No.7886362]

>>7885494
2D was seen as old hat. It’s the equivalent of a 1934 audience hating a silent movie.

[Anonymous No.7886785]

>>7885502
Doom64 came out after Quake it's not nitpicking for calling it dated.

[Anonymous No.7886791]

>>7886142
Really?

[Anonymous No.7886794]

>>7885494
They were being paid to soijak hard over whatever the hottest trend at the time was.

[Anonymous No.7886797]

>>7885494
>inb4 it's cropped from one of the ten million UK Nintendo magazines at the time that all tried to out-edge each other in hating on other platforms
Seriously, FUCK brand specific print magazines and thank fucking GOD they went the way of the Dodo. I could've smeared my shit on the wall and produced better journalism than those twats.

[Anonymous No.7886812]

>>7885494
You have two types of people in this culture: gamers and people who play video games.

The latter category are usually trend followers who have no concept of what they're playing or why it's actually good or bad. The problem is, they're the loud majority. And like all loud people, they're stupid.

https://www.ign.com/articles/2000/07/26/giga-wing

In the above review (by an industry "professional"), he talks about how short the game is, unaware that he never actually completed it.

[Anonymous No.7886819]

The pure, raw seethe in these is always great. Journalism, not even once.

[Anonymous No.7886821]

>>7885610
edgy

[Anonymous No.7886824]

cult of progress and that most of the mags and media were glorified PR and marketing for games biz. just like how current media is PR for democrats.

[Anonymous No.7886829]

>>7886001
This. The staff of EGM and GamePro were a bunch of 19 year olds who probably were doing drugs in the office. I miss those days.

[Anonymous No.7886862]

>>7885591
Mortal Kombat Trilogy

[Anonymous No.7886965]

>>7886797
It wasn't just the UK's Nintendo magazines that were needlessly trying to out-edge each other.

Ironically the magazine with the least teenage edge to it was Edge.

[Anonymous No.7887010]

>>7885494
They obv. got paid.
haha, compare these 2 games now.

[Anonymous No.7887019]

Hindsight is 20/20 and everybody here is a hipster, of course we prefer 2D today, but you have to be retarded to not understand why people wouldn't have been excited for something brand new in the 5th gen and would be annoyed to see more of the same games from 5-6 years ago.

[Anonymous No.7887053]

Its largely a result of games evolving at a lightning pace in the 90s. When every six months some new boundary breaking game was on the horizon it was easy to start thinking of stuff that was just a few years old as passe. Today's gaming landscape is nowhere near as volcanically active as it was back then. There were like 8 different consoles all in some form of competition at one point.

[Anonymous No.7887093]

>>7886965
Do westerns really?

[Anonymous No.7887109]

>>7887019
>and would be annoyed to see more of the same games from 5-6 years ago.
They could just not buy them though

[Anonymous No.7887143]

>>7885494
Reviewers will always do that kind of thing to appear more knowegable and “hardcore” than they really are. They do this because critics rarely know enough about what they’re talking about to provide insightful information - reviewers are generally those who failed in a creative endevour and are now making a living seething at those who succeeded.

This is true regardless of medium. Only maybe five percent of critics are legitimately decent.

[Anonymous No.7887146]

>>7885494
Game Journos have been a problem for a long time now. They influence the industry in many negative ways.

[Anonymous No.7887149]

>>7886965
That came out in the mid 90s when Anime wasn't yet a thing in most countries. The reviews over here bombed the game too, calling it childish and annoying.

For what it's worth, Legends really did have that horrible 90s anime dub that made it sound like the average cartoons for 5 year olds at the time.

[Anonymous No.7887151]

>>7886965
these fucking people had so much power back then. They could sink a game's sales with these reviews. Fuck them for not giving games a chance.

[Anonymous No.7887152]

>>7886819
This is insane.

[Anonymous No.7887153]

>>7885494
Same reason folks nowadays get upset if games don't have 100+ hours of gameplay, even if the time spent isn't interesting. Each time period has trends that folks are looking for and it impacts how they view things at the time. It's why it's good to play things yourself, form opinions, and allow opinions a chance to sit and mature.

[Anonymous No.7887245]

>>7886142
>>7886791
Lol, dude exposed himself. I bet that guy also thinks "simp" is a new term and Air Force 1 shoes were created in 2018.
People don't realize how cyclical pop culture is.

[Anonymous No.7887263]

>>7887149
>hat came out in the mid 90s when Anime wasn't yet a thing in most countries.
Only america got anime as late as the 2000s

[Anonymous No.7887267]

>>7887245
too true, was shocked to hear simp in 20+ year old songs

[Anonymous No.7887326]

It's very hard for people born in the 90s or later to understand the paradigm shift.
I agree that journos are faggots, but while most people don't outright hate 2D, just think that for 2 decades or more all people knew was 2D games. Early 3D games like i robot, aitd or magic carpet were really early proof of concepts and they wowed everyone but it wasn't until 5th gen that actual good 3D games arrived at home systems. Remember: 20+ years of 2D exclusively, and suddenly 3D was real before your eyes.
Then over time, 2D became sort of a niche and for many young people it's a curious novelty, like in indie games, but back then it was the norm.
Wey never had any other generational jump as wild as 4th gen>5th gen ever again and probably won't for a while.

[Anonymous No.7887445]

>>7886819
>PC gamers remain delighted with the appearance of the emulator, though, as it finally allows them to play something other than top-down strategy games, infinitely dull flight sims and relentlessly cloned first-person shooters

[Anonymous No.7887465]

Why do home owners with modern plumbing get so angry at outhouses still existing?

Because why waste time on outdated garbage?

[Anonymous No.7887482]

>>7887465
The plumbing jew fears the outhouse chad

[Anonymous No.7887558]

>>7886001
>Video Game reviewing/analysis was a novelty at the time so there were no adequate editors, and nor did they care for the actual quality of the writing.
You say that like there's adequate editing and writing now.
>>7886829
EGM and Gaypro, no. Gamefan on the other hand had an issue pressed where Steve Halverson wrote his infamous review on Cybermorph for Jaguar while tripping balls on acid.
>>7887149
>That came out in the mid 90s when Anime wasn't yet a thing in most countries
No, there was already a cult following for anime by the mid 90s and parts of Europe and Latin America got stuff like Saint Seiya and tons of Go Nagai shit in the 80s that burgers never got outside of fansubs.
>>7887263
Shut your dumb zoomer ass the fuck up. America had anime going back to the fucking 60s with Astro Boy, Tetsujin 28/Gigantor, and fucking Speed Racer. Fast forward to the late 90s and you had Disney licensing Ghibli movies and DBZ on Toonami breaking ratings records. Tapes of stuff like Ninja Scroll, Akira, Street Fighter II the anime movie, and Ghost in the Shell were perennial rental sell outs at Blockbuster and other video shops in the mid 90s. Don't ever post again unless you want to look retarded.

[Anonymous No.7887605]

>>7885494
I'd bet anything that is from a Nintendo-only magazine so they had every incentive to trash the competition.
>>7885502
They're both great, at the time they were justifiably blown away by 3d games that had never existed before.

[Anonymous No.7887617]

Pedantic fun fact:

The PS1 doesn't actually support 2D in the traditional sense of using dedicated hardware for sprites like the SNES & Saturn had. 2D on the PS1 is done by displaying front-facing flat textured polygons. Technically, the PS1 doesn't have "2D games" (this is dumb but I did say it would be pedantic). This is also how modern graphics APIs like OpenGL & Vulkan do 2D. It's just faster when you're using modern GPUs that are all optimized for 3D.

Here's a decent example on the PS1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-n5RePsO1TU

[Anonymous No.7887618]

>>7885591
Wonder Project J2
Dr. Mario 64

[Anonymous No.7887638]

>>7887617
If I'm not mistaken, the Nintendo 64 uses a similar method. Neat stuff.

[Anonymous No.7887656]

>>7887617
2D polygons are 2D.

[Anonymous No.7887657]

>>7887617
I'm sure there were PS1 games that did 2D in software. Could be why Chrono Trigger is such a mess.

[Anonymous No.7887661]

>>7887617
>>7887638
To be absolutely fair the PS1 & N64 could blit sprites right onto the framebuffer with the CPU but that's far slower.

[Anonymous No.7887672]

>>7887617
Symphony's sprites are sprites you mene spouting retard. It literally recycled sprites from fucking Rondo.
>>7887638
Nope, you're getting memed
>>7887657
There were, that anon is just spouting dumb shit he heard second hand from retards misinterpreting what a sprite is and what a polygon is.

Symphony's polygons are shit like the clock tower in the beginning or the floating book enemies. Alucard, Richter, Dracula, and the majority of the recycled Rondo enemies are all sprites with some nifty PS1 effects plastered on them.

[Anonymous No.7887680]

>>7887656
You're right. It would have been better to say that the PS1 displays 2D with the same methods that it uses for 3D.

[Anonymous No.7887692]

>>7885578
This is the victim of mid 90s opinion shaping. Its not pretty.

[Anonymous No.7887695]

>>7887672

[Anonymous No.7887705]

>>7887617
Right, and it also doesn't support 3D in modern sense of what we would call 3d which means proper hardware-based 3d graphics including a z-buffer. It only gets a pass due to the hoardes of PS1 kids and sony fans for who it was their first "3d" system. N64 blew it out of the water in terms of 3d.

[Anonymous No.7887716]

>>7887617
Thats more then just pedantic. "2D" games on playstation feel exactly like the 3D games. Because thats what they are. They are empty, laggy and lack a certain snappiness compared to games on real 2D hardware.

[Anonymous No.7887736]

>>7887672
>Symphony's sprites are sprites
Proof, citation needed. Pulling crap out of your keister doesnt count.

[Anonymous No.7887776]

>>7887617
And as for the N64: its GPU actually does explicitly support 2D sprites by means of rectangle-drawing commands built directly into the hardware. None of this really matters, though, as the distinction is arbitrary. Even a GPU with no concept of three-dimensional space can render 3D graphics to some extent.

[Anonymous No.7887781]

>>7887672
my guy the game displays bitmaps, or what you're calling sprites, as textures on polygons

[Anonymous No.7887793]

>>7887445
Best part is him saying that after whining that people are pirating Goldeneye

[Anonymous No.7887796]

>>7887781
This.

[Anonymous No.7887805]

>>7887736
The recycled Rondo enemies you dipshit, and how the game runs in the same resolution as Rondo as well.

[Anonymous No.7887808]

>>7887781
So they're textures and not bitmaps. They're still fucking sprites

[Anonymous No.7887813]

The vast majority of people simply do not know what a sprite really is. Mega Man on NES isn't "a sprite", it's an object made of 7 to 9 sprites 8*8 pixel sprites (depending on the frame). Same thing on SNES the difference being that while on NES you're oblitaged to use objects only made of 8*8 sprites or objects only made of 8*16 sprites, on SNES you can mix the two and even get different sprite sizes.

If Alucard is a or several polygons then it is correct to say he's not "a sprite", but Belmont on SNES isn't "a" sprite either.

P.S: this is why Japs say "dot graphics" and not "sprite graphics". Real "spritework" wouldn't include SotN and that's retarded because in the end, outside of technical limitations, it matters little wether your dot graphics object is made of sprites or polygons.

[Anonymous No.7887815]

>>7887805
Lmao.

[Anonymous No.7887821]

>>7887716
What about the 2d fighting game ports? Other than missing animations they feel just like the CPS2 and Neo Geo.

[Anonymous No.7887826]

>>7885494
Because their audience was idiot children who thumbed through the magazines while their parents shopped for groceries.

[Anonymous No.7887830]

>>7887813
Thats not even the point. The point is the playstation hardware has very limited 2D capabilities. And thus has to fake 2D via a 3D approach. Exactly like OpenGL "2D" games do it. And Snoyflakes dont like hearing that. Because they learned that playstation is always superior.

[Anonymous No.7887841]

>>7887821
>they feel just like the CPS2 and Neo Geo
Maybe you should just run a playstation neo geo port next to the real AES thing. Its like apples and oranges.

[Anonymous No.7887851]

SPRITES AS QUADS GANG WAS HERE

QUADS RULE
TRIANGLES DROOL

[Anonymous No.7887874]

>>7887851
transparency is for losers

[Anonymous No.7887887]

>>7885494
This is a review?
Christ, I though I was reading an ad.

[Anonymous No.7887890]

>>7887851
>>7887874
Based Saturn chads!

[Anonymous No.7888014]

>>7887776
>None of this really matters, though, as the distinction is arbitrary. Even a GPU with no concept of three-dimensional space can render 3D graphics to some extent.
What the hell are you talking about? Of course it matters if a console has actual 2d or 3d or is running it through software.

[Anonymous No.7888058]

>>7887793
Goldeneye is better than any PC shooter

[Anonymous No.7888076]

>>7887887
Actually it's from a preview from the earliest stages of Castlevania 64's development.

[Anonymous No.7888082]

>>7887149
It's almost like the franchise where the wily bad guy is named Dr Wily is for kids or something

[Anonymous No.7888205]

>>7885557
>This was mainly an American thing and it didn't happen in Japan, not sure why
all thanks to bernie "the saturn is not our future" stolar

[Anonymous No.7888259]

>>7888014
Keep on fighting the good fight.

[Anonymous No.7888280]

>>7886965
>by virgin
fitting

[Anonymous No.7888284]

>>7885609
The thing about the few 2D games is that the sprites are even traced 3D models so even the 2D games have a purposeful 3D look. Every sprite in Yoshi's Story they made a 3D model for the enemies and items

[Anonymous No.7888301]

>>7886819
He's literally not wrong. And still to this day PC cucks have to wait for emulators to have something to play.

Look at how happy pcucks are when there's performance boosts on the Switch emulator. Finally some games to play that aren't early access unfinished steam games or MOBAS

[Anonymous No.7888305]

>>7885494
And they say game journalists are full of shit now.

[Anonymous No.7888352]

If /v/ was around in the late 90s they would have treated 2D games the same way.

[Anonymous No.7888382]

>>7888352

You would have seen this image posted every day with whatever the 90s version of "we got too cocky, bros..." is

[Anonymous No.7888695]

>>7887019
It's not a matter of preferring 2d or 3d. You can make good games either way. The "article" just bashed SotN solely for it's graphics. That's child mentality.

[Anonymous No.7888904]

>>7885494
3D was the hip new thing which led to 2D being seen as archaic and bad at the time. This is why most old series had really awkward 3d phases that nowadays are seen as bad but were generally liked by reviewers back in the day.

[Anonymous No.7888950]

>>7887019
You don't need hindsight to notice game journalists being retarded

[Anonymous No.7888996]

>>7888382
>oh no no no, Playstation bros, we got too cocky... we can't even run a 3D castlevania!

[Anonymous No.7889003]

>>7885591
That ugly ass game, Mischief Makes.

[Anonymous No.7889005]

>>7885494
Great pic OP.

For all the zoomers, save this picture and refer to it when you have questions about 90's gaming. So many things do not make sense unless you understand the context of the era. It was a graphics arms race. It's very hard to wrap your head around because the ubiquity of CG now, it is everywhere, but back in the 90's it was a huge fucking deal. People were hungry for it. People didn't see anything like it.

The #1 example of this is Tomb Raider. I remember when it came out it sucked. It was awful and hard to play. But because it was 3D boobas, it was an instant hit.

[Anonymous No.7889028]

>>7885591
Mortal Kombat Trilogy
NBA Hangtime

[Anonymous No.7889032]

>>7888382
>>7888996
But then there would have been the competing "SOUL" vs "SOULLESS" threads at the same time

[Anonymous No.7889034]

>>7885494
Reviewers were basically butthurt that the 3DO didn't win

[Anonymous No.7889175]

I think because of early 2d 32bit games like earthworm jim which people judged as low effort so all 2d games were put into that category. I went from 8 bit straight to doom so I was always impressed with 16 bit graphics and have never got over them to this day. I would guess spoiled children who got given everything were the ones who complained because of the crappy Acclaim games near the end of the 16 bit generation.
I only got a ps1 in late 1997 so I think I missed all the hate for 2d since Obes Adysee in particular was popular at the time.

I think once the Saturn was gone there was no need for ps1 mags to piss themselves much about specs anymore.

>>7885494
The strange thing is the PC market, the most up yourself category of gaming at the time was perfectly content with 2d games like Diablo and Red alert.

[Anonymous No.7889437]

>>7888058
xd

[Anonymous No.7889821]

>>7886965
Reviews like this probably was the cause of Japanese game companies trying to appeal to west in a tryhard way in the late 6th gen to 7th gen

[Anonymous No.7889832]

>>7887617
>Technically, the PS1 doesn't have "2D games"
technically doesn't have 3D games either

[Anonymous No.7889838]

>>7887617
That's how all 2D works nowadays. It's just much more polished.

[Anonymous No.7889954]

>>7885578
holy based

[Anonymous No.7889981]

>>7889005
I don't understand people who still think Tomb Raider is good to this day.
It played like shit then and it plays like shit now.

[Anonymous No.7890004]

>>7886965
>Bollocks
>£5
>motley assortment
>really, really bollocks
>This is duller than The Archers
I can just feel the British radiating off this review

[Anonymous No.7890025]

>>7886965
Based. Megaman is shit

[Anonymous No.7890071]

>>7887617
You are wrong, the Playstation supports drawing rectangles directly.
Such rectangles are rendered faster than polygons and cannot be transformed like a polygon can.
These rectangles serve both as sprites and as backgrounds - with a framebuffer instead of a tilemap or a hardware display list, there is no longer a difference between a sprite or a background.
The youtube video you posted is an emulator mimicking real 2D using OpenGL primitives. The Playstation doesn't do it this way.
It is a myth that the Playstation did not support traditional 2D.

[Anonymous No.7890121]

>>7890071
Here is an official reference to the Playstation's ability to draw a sprite as a primitive.
https://retrocdn.net/images/0/0b/ADV_GPU.pdf

[Anonymous No.7890128]

>>7885494
in case you never noticed, "game journalism" is marketing

[Anonymous No.7890146]

>>7889005
>It was a graphics arms race. It's very hard to wrap your head around
What in the world has gaming been since the 6th gen if not a graphics race? Only Nintendo has dropped out of it

[Anonymous No.7890165]

>>7890146
Graphics have barely changed since then despite developers sacrificing more and more in pursuit of them. When 3D graphics became mainstream, entire new genres of games became popular.

[Anonymous No.7890176]

>>7886819
Wow, gaming journalism used to be good and witty. Who knew?

[Anonymous No.7890247]

>>7888382
The left one was originally for snes

[Anonymous No.7890249]

>>7887267
different meaning, it used to be short for simpleton

[Anonymous No.7890285]

>>7887705
>3d which means proper hardware-based 3d graphics including a z-buffer.
lol retard

[Anonymous No.7890334]

>>7885494
Because 3D was revolutionary and new and offered experiences you literally could never have before.
It's like asking someone in the 60s to be impressed at the existence of a cruise liner when space shuttles were being made.

[Anonymous No.7890338]

>>7888205
Bernie was based and correct about everything. seethe

[Anonymous No.7890342]

>>7886014
Ray Tracing only offers graphics
3D over 2D was an entire shift in paradigm and design and experience. Hell it was practically like the medium was brand new again.

[Anonymous No.7890354]

>>7889005
>Tomb Raider. I remember when it came out it sucked. It was awful and hard to play
And instead of getting good, anon choose to stay retarted and blog on the interweb 25 years later. Many such cases.

[Anonymous No.7890384]

>>7890071
>It is a myth that the Playstation did not support traditional 2D.
What's funny is that these "X couldn't do real 2D" posts seem to show up unprompted in any 5th gen discussion, even on other forums 20+ years ago. Even if developers did render their 2D games exclusively in the manner that they suggest it still provides nice visual improvements like quick scaling and rotation and its depth, or 3D-ness, will go unnoticed by the player anyway.

[Anonymous No.7890431]

>>7890384
>Even if developers did render their 2D games exclusively in the manner that they suggest it still provides nice visual improvements like quick scaling and rotation and its depth, or 3D-ness, will go unnoticed by the player anyway.
I mean, it's possible and easier to do that without a 3D primitive. The GBA has no hardware 3D primitives but still has rotated/scaled sprites. The Saturn also supports a scaled sprite that is not a distorted sprite (read: texture-mapped polygon).
Interestingly the Playstation doesn't seem to have a command like this. So if you want to do rotation or scaling then you will have to rely on 3D primitives.

[Anonymous No.7890581]

>>7890431
But I think that makes sense for the Playstation, though. Why would you invest time and resources towards designing dedicated fixed function 2D elements in your GPU when you already have silicon that is generalized for all applications? Why not use your hardware which was geared toward manipulating triangles and painting them as fast as possible for 2D games as well?

If you dedicate silicon area towards specific graphics features that may or may not be used depending on the type of game or developer you end up with a chimeric monstrosity like the Saturn where more transistors are given to needless things like line buffers or tile handling while buffering and caching to increase throughput are left out.

[Anonymous No.7890594]

>>7885494
People were sick to death of 2D at the time.

[Anonymous No.7890597]

>>7887263
>Only america got anime as late as the 2000s
Imagine being retarded enough to believe this.

[Anonymous No.7890601]

>>7890581
Yeah, the Playstation probably has its dedicated 2D capability because it's twice as fast as the 3D primitives. There's a clear advantage to incorporating that which isn't just redundant functionality.

The Playstation is indeed one of the best designed consoles in that regard. If you're making a typical 3D game, almost none of the silicon is wasted. If you're making a 2D game, most of the silicon is still used and in a reasonably efficient fashion as well. There are no glaring gaps or oversights, it just has what it needs.
That's not like the Saturn where lots of the hardware like the SCU DSP or VDP2 are simply hard to find uses for sometimes, and the hardware you can use is poor in its role because it's too slow or has unusual quirks.

[Anonymous No.7890618]

>>7890597
On my defense, americans themselves made me believe that.

[Anonymous No.7890637]

>>7890618
*In
Sorry for the >ESL

[Anonymous No.7890671]

>>7885494
Videogame reviews were ALWAYS trash trend/clout chasers. Its been like this for 30+ fucking years, how how the fuck do you people not catch on?

[Anonymous No.7890707]

>>7890176
they used to be snarky, witty dickheads but they lost all their wit.

[Anonymous No.7890947]

>>7885591
ogre battle 64

[Anonymous No.7891043]

>>7885609
>>7886186
>>7887618
>>7889028
>>7890947
But where are the games that use /real/ 2D? None of that triangle shit. And no quads, lines, or pixels, either. That's cheating!

[Anonymous No.7891115]

>UK
>Nintendo magazine

shocking

[Anonymous No.7891683]

>>7887617
Look, am going to outpedo you.
The ps1 doesnt do 3d at all, all the GPU does is draw 2d shapes on the screen, the thing that does the 3d conversion is the GTE which would be the equivalent of the geometry transformation and camera clipping in ogl 3.0+

[Anonymous No.7891850]

>>7885494
>>7891115
Anyone know if the graphics were actually supposed to look like this in the final game? They ended up being a lot more lower res.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lF10ZqHnpE

It seems a little too advanced for that generation.

[Anonymous No.7891934]

>>7885502
Doom is trash. Nothing has changed.

[Anonymous No.7891950]

>>7885610
1) Shit opinion, you probably killed Richter and stopped anyway
2) Even if you had a point you don't. The point is SOTN is clearly superior to Castlevania on N64z

[Anonymous No.7891954]

>>7885494
they were trying to sell new hardware

surprise! it's jews all along

[Anonymous No.7891961]

>>7885610
I will say that the second castle did not age well. Back in the day it was great just finding out there was more game. An entire upside down castle was awesome. But after playing it several dozen times it's really poorly done. The story stops cold except for a small exchange with Death, the music has much less variety, and most platforms are just barely out of double jump range so it's annoying to traverse. You're constantly turning into a bat or super jumping into ceilings to get around.

[Anonymous No.7891971]

>>7891115
>>7885494
>>7886797
>>7886965
>Mfw im a britfag
>Mfw as a kid I had a monthly subscription to the Nintendo Official Magazine UK from like 2001 right up until it discontinued in the early 2010s
>Mfw all the reviews were full of innuendos, British lad banter, footy references, etc

There were two eras of the magazine, NOM ran from the 90s until about 2006 when it got replaced by ONM which was way more professionalised. The pre-2006 era was the edgiest shit you could imagine, especially considering Nintendo itself in those days was still maintaining a pretence of being a "family values" company, and I'm guessing that the 2006 rebrand was partly motivated by a desire to clean up the magazine's image going into the Wii/DS generation.

I still have literally all of the magazines in some boxes somewhere. I might go through them one day and try to find some gems to post on /vr/. I remember a recurring section where readers wrote into this fat cunt cigar-smoking Walrus character who just shit talked everyone and made raunchy jokes.

[Anonymous No.7892397]

As a kid, nothing sucked more for me than getting a ps1 game and finding it was 2d, or played like 2d.
Looking at you, Rayman, Wild 9, Heart of Darkness.

[Anonymous No.7892418]

>>7885610
Man what the fuck
I am contrarian supreme and even I can't shit on SotN (outside of the reverse castle sometimes being very annoying to traverse)

[Anonymous No.7892463]

>>7885502
gee its almost like games journalism has always been kinda useless
if you wanted to review a game back then, you rented it

[Anonymous No.7893312]

>>7891850
Those are just workstation proof of concepts, they might even have been leftovers from before the N64's specs got scaled back.

[Anonymous No.7893421]

>>7885578
>i enjoy being mentally challenged

[Anonymous No.7893480]

>>7885610
Yeah, I really enjoyed it.

[Anonymous No.7894068]

>>7885578

[Anonymous No.7894084]

>>7885494
If you expected to be treated like hot shit for having a horse drawn carriage just after the Wright Brothers invented manned flight you'd look ridiculous. Of course they shit on 2D, 3D was the biggest thing to ever happen in the history of video games and it opened to door to entirely different experiences that were impossible beforehand.

[Anonymous No.7894186]

>>7887617
Is that why SOTN is better on Sega Saturn? If SOA would have let the 4Meg expansion ram packs into America in abundance the Saturn would have competed with the Playstation head to head but the most extreme 3D games.

[Anonymous No.7894196]

>>7889034
Reviewers trashed the 3DO. They're part of the reason why it died. Too soon to market and thus too expensive. Damn did it have the best versions of some games.

[Anonymous No.7894198]

>>7894186
What? I don't know why you think adding RAM would make a console's 3D performance better.

[Anonymous No.7894209]

>>7891850
Imagine if the N64 would have been a ten thousand dollar gaming machine.

[Anonymous No.7894214]

>>7892397
Yea, kids suck and have no taste.

[Anonymous No.7894216]

>>7894198
The 4meg expansion pack can really cut down on loading time. And I specifically said ", but the most extreme 3D games."
The Saturn was always going to be behind the Playstation when it comes to pure 3D games.

[Anonymous No.7894260]

>>7891971
do it

[Anonymous No.7894349]

>>7893312
>from before the N64's specs got scaled back
Is this really a thing?
Castlevania 64 was released many years after the launch of the N64. By comparison, consider this excerpt from a postmortem for Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire (a launch title):
>for the first nine months of Shadows, we had no real hardware with which to gauge the performance of the game—other than a rather nice Silicon Graphics ONYX. Nonetheless, when we finally received the real hardware, we were pleased to find that the performance estimates given to us by SGI proved to be very accurate
Source: https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/114010/Classic_Postmortem_Star_Wars_Shadows_Of_The_Empire.php

[Anonymous No.7894381]

>>7891971
Based NOM chad. I always wanted to be that lucky cunt who showed them his room and got lots of free Nintendo stuff.

[Anonymous No.7894426]

>>7892397
and how did your cutting edge 90s 3D games age, anon

[Anonymous No.7894932]

>7891934
you don't deserve a you

[Anonymous No.7895037]

Imagine how much better the game industry would be right now if games "journalism" never existed.

[Anonymous No.7895723]

>>7890249
it was common in its current meaning in 90s/2000s hip hop

"I'm trill working a wheel, a pimp not a simp" was on a 1999 hit song

[Anonymous No.7896141]

>>7887149
why lie?

[Anonymous No.7896147]

>>7894186
oh god man, jist let it die already!, drop it!

SOTN on Saturm is dogshit.

It looks worse, it feels worse, parts of it even sounds worse (sound effects dont have low pass filter), it plays worse with tons of slowdown, all the fucking meme patches and fixes done on that shitshow are the encyclopedia definition of "treating the symptoms instead of the problem" SOTN COULD NOT BE DONE ON SATURN.

tiny bits of extra content arent worth the aggravation, grow up.

[Anonymous No.7896327]

>>7891850
>>7893312
It looks like AITD but with less detail. This was a 1992 PC game.
https://youtu.be/p-6PIjPe8pA

PC was truly master rice.

[Anonymous No.7896331]

>>7896327
Also AITD 2 and 3. Which were pretty much the same game engine but with more stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRnq2_g_nAE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9byGuHrYes

[Anonymous No.7896349]

>>7887617
>>7887656

2D polygons are 2D enough for me either.

[Anonymous No.7896354]

>>7886819
>"the big N"
what did they mean by this

[Anonymous No.7896837]

>>7896354
Brits love BLM retro games.

[Anonymous No.7897043]

>>7896147
The only slowdown I'm experincing after a couple hours into the game is the Menu and Map screen, but it's only a couple extra seconds. The slowdown in the begining of the game with the exploding weredogs doesn't seem to happen later in the game.
Other than the loading times I'm enjoying it more than the PS1 version.

[Anonymous No.7897057]

>>7885582
This. It's kinda like how we all hated using both analogs sticks on the PSX/PS2 controllers for the longest time until we got used to them and now we laugh at things like the Deus Ex review in hindsight.

[Anonymous No.7897064]

>>7885591
Does Harvest Moon 64 count?

[Anonymous No.7897069]

>>7897057
> like the Deus Ex review in hindsight.
Don't you mean the alien resurrection review?

[Anonymous No.7897072]

>>7891971
I only had it when it was ONM up until it discontinued but there was still some great banter and piss taking in some of it

[Anonymous No.7897117]

>>7890618
And that makes an even bigger retard than the average American.

[Anonymous No.7897123]

>>7885494
Gaming magazines at the time were cursed with this dumb edgy "cutting edge" worshiping writing.

[Anonymous No.7897127]

>>7890354
found the coomer

[Anonymous No.7897140]

>>7897069
Whoops, my bad! It was that one! I thought it was Deus Ex for some reason lol. I thought it came out on the PSX, but that was PS2.

[Anonymous No.7897147]

>>7885494
because game reviewers were never less retarded than they are now.

[Anonymous No.7897187]

>>7887263
>Only america got anime as late as the 2000s
Who started this retarded meme? Anime has been in the states for decades, especially in the 90s.

[Anonymous No.7897249]

>>7897117
Dude, it has been 2 days since i made that post, i already learned my lesson ok.
>>7897187
Normalfags only got to watch anime through Cartoon Network in the early-mid 2000s.