/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.7868883]

I don't understand why Nintendo parted ways with Rare

[Anonymous No.7868893]

>>7868883
They saw the writing on the wall

[Anonymous No.7868896]

>>7868883
Nintendo sense Rare's decline and decide to use their money elsewhere.

[Anonymous No.7868901]

>>7868883
Rare was self destructing after Goldeneye. The team split.

[Anonymous No.7868919]

>>7868883
After seeing their catalogue for the xbox and afterwards, they made a good call.

[Anonymous No.7868942]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_video_games_developed_by_Rare

the majority of their games are shovelware... imagine developing games for LJN

[Anonymous No.7868971]

I don't understand why Sony didn’t purchase Crash

[Anonymous No.7868986]

>>7868883
After experiencing the final boss fight in Jet Force Gemini, they decided to part ways with those masochists.

[Anonymous No.7868987]

>>7868919
sea of thieves is the pinnacle of pirate vidya

[Anonymous No.7868991]

>>7868987
I think you meant Sid Meier's Pirates!

[Anonymous No.7869014]

Probably Japanese jealousy

[Anonymous No.7869332]

>>7868896
Rare wouldn't have declined if Nintendo had continued working closely with them

[Anonymous No.7869373]

Why so many fuckers here? Not saying you gotta hump Rare's leg, but even their "declining years" games were better then the vast majority of crap out there at the time and even better then most of Nintendo's other buddy-buddy companies of the time.

[Anonymous No.7869395]

>>7868883
Several reasons, mainly that

>Nintendo had already (or was planning to I forgot the specific timeline) invested in Retro Studios, another western dev
>Nintendo themselves were not doing perfectly financially, the N64 did not do very well at all
>Rare was fucking expensive, and their recent games, while good, weren't runaway successes selling megaunits

The Rare Bros made a gamble that Nintendo would buy them outright, but it was a bad bet.

[Anonymous No.7869728]

>>7868987
>>7868991

Sorry boys, bet you're feeling real dumb right about now

[Anonymous No.7869756]

>Stamper brothers in a bold business move, decided to put up Rareware stocks for sale way over the price Nintendo was willing to pay, expecting them to cover the bid
>unexpectedly Microsoft bought the stocks before Nintendo could respond
And that's all there is to it.

[Anonymous No.7869758]

I'm not a brand fanboy, but Microsoft is pretty bad at managing companies they have acquired. See: Skype, Mojang, LinkedIn, Nokia

[Anonymous No.7869761]

>>7868883
I never liked Rare’s N64 platformers but I guess I sort of understand why people like them. At least we got TimeSplitters.

[Anonymous No.7869763]

>>7868883
Nintendo didn't wanna buy Rare for what they were asking for while Microsoft went and bought them

[Anonymous No.7869764]

>>7869758
>Mojang
At this point Minecraft is what it is and just prints money. There’s not much to manage.

[Anonymous No.7869897]

>>7869395
>the N64 did not do very well at all
That's blatantly false.

[Anonymous No.7869903]

>>7869897
No it isn’t. The N64 did okay in North America but got absolutely stomped by the PlayStation in every other major territory.

[Anonymous No.7869913]

>>7869903
Dude, these are businesses. Businesses don't care that their competitor has 55% of market share on wikipedia (which didn't exist at the time) vs 45%.
Goddamn, you fucking zoomers. Go to school.

[Anonymous No.7869924]

>>7869913
I have no idea what the fuck you’re trying to say but the N64’s relative lack of market share outside of NA was 100% the point where Nintendo started to branch off into doing their own separate thing with their home consoles. The GameCube went on to lag behind as well which cemented what they’ve been doing ever since the Wii.

[Anonymous No.7869930]

>>7869903
There is no country besides America.

[Anonymous No.7869939]

>>7869924
>I have no idea what the fuck you’re trying to say
Yeah I know you don't. You're not smart and you can't think critically.
Company x sold more units than company y does not necessarily mean company x won.
>what they’ve been doing ever since the Wii
It's like you're proving my point without even knowing it. The Wii was a fucking money printing machine for Nintendo.

[Anonymous No.7869952]

>>7869939
Let me clarify: The N64 compounded by the GameCube is the reason that Nintendo no longer competes directly with the other console makers on the market with a comparably specced system.

[Anonymous No.7869981]

>>7868901
Goldeneye was made by about 7 people and only 3 or 4 left. The goldeneye team wasn't even the main team at rare

[Anonymous No.7869995]

>>7869952
>Nintendo no longer competes directly with the other console makers
Except... it does? Nintendo literally does do this?

[Anonymous No.7870005]

>>7869995
I think you’re just being stubborn at this point but no, Nintendo very obviously does not directly compete with Xbox and PlayStation in the same way the SNES and the Genesis did. Since the Wii, Nintendo has been viewed as the less expensive supplementary console that people buy in addition to having a “main” console.

[Anonymous No.7870013]

>>7868987
Sea of thieves is garbage.
>>7869939
>Company x sold more units than company y does not necessarily mean company x won
With a disparity that huge, it really does. Playstation crushed N64 sales by 211%, which is enormous. The N64 actually sold fewer systems than the SNES, in a time when the console market was experiencing a huge boom.

[Anonymous No.7870026]

>>7870005
I'm sorry for being mean to you guy, but you're flat-out wrong. Wii was the main console for many people, and more importantly was the main and only console for many people who had not played video games before.
>>7870013
And yet Nintendo is still around despite not having other significant lines of business to rely on (like Sony absolutely does).

[Anonymous No.7870031]

>>7870026
Sega's "still around" too, I don't know what that has to do with a company losing a gen.

[Anonymous No.7870034]

>>7870031
I'm not saying the N64 sold better than the PSX.

[Anonymous No.7870037]

>>7870026
I certainly am not wrong. People buy Nintendo consoles for their exclusives and then play just about everything else on PC, PlayStation or Xbox. The days of being able to only own a Nintendo console and not miss out on a whole lot of major third party releases ended with the SNES.

[Anonymous No.7870042]

>>7868883
Their quality had already been slipping desu
You can see that Nintendo was basically in the right considering the quality of shit Rare made under Microsoft

[Anonymous No.7870051]

>>7869952
>Let me clarify: The N64 compounded by the GameCube is the reason that Nintendo no longer competes directly with the other console makers
Lmao nope. It's because the Wii was such a huge fucking hit that they realized chasing graphic and raw power was a fool's game so they slid themselves into a niche market instead. Wii U didn't quite work out but I'd say Switch being the hit that it is proves that it was the smart choice.

[Anonymous No.7870053]

>>7870051
They “slid themselves into a niche market” precisely because the N64 and then the GameCube had underwhelming sales.

[Anonymous No.7870056]

>>7870037
>using console exclusives as a trump card in 2021
What the FUCK are you talking about? I'm 31 years old and this is the best time in my lifespan to be a PC gamer because even the least popular titles are getting ported.

[Anonymous No.7870063]

>>7870056
> People buy Nintendo consoles for their exclusives and then play just about everything else on PC, PlayStation or Xbox.
What about that statement didn’t you understand?

[Anonymous No.7870065]

>>7870037
>The days of being able to only own a Nintendo console and not miss out on a whole lot of major third party releases ended with the SNES.
Nobody actually cares about this anymore because of PC and the rise of steam. Hell, exclusives are fucking dying with both Xboner and PSnore now anyways. Was Psnore an insult in the PS1 days? I like it.

[Anonymous No.7870068]

>>7870063
Alright I'm sorry, first-party Nintendo games generally do not get ported; you're right about that.

[Anonymous No.7870069]

>>7870065
See >>7870063

[Anonymous No.7870071]

>>7870069
I get the statement I just think that it doesn't matter cause no one cares. The ONLY thing that matters is exclusives and even those are mattering less and less

[Anonymous No.7870074]

>>7870071
Okay but Nintendo’s exclusives remain locked to their consoles which no longer battle it out with Sony or MS on a specs level. The reason Nintendo no longer attempts to directly compete with a powerful console is because Sony came in with very deep pockets back in the 90s and took over the market.

[Anonymous No.7870097]

>>7870074
>specs level
Not the guy you're replying to, but you need to consider that this doesn't matter as much as you think it does. As in, Nintendo does not sell similar hardware that Microsoft and Sony do, yet Nintendo DOES still compete with them.

[Anonymous No.7870106]

>>7870097
Right, but my overall point is that Nintendo wouldn’t have pivoted into their current position as the “other guy” if the PlayStation hadn’t been so dominant worldwide.

[Anonymous No.7870110]

>>7869014
This.

[Anonymous No.7870127]

>>7869913
Now this is a wise take

Where’s that one chart? If I recall they managed to post profits nearly as high as playstation despite the smaller install base. They were still definetly making a shitload of money during the N64 era.

>>7869924
>>7869995
It’s abundantly clear that this guy is just genuinely not smart at all. Poor man has no clue what he’s on about. School of wikipedia, class of Gen Z…

[Anonymous No.7870136]

>>7870127
No one is denying that the N64 was profitable but the reality is the PlayStation took over as the dominant platform on the market and usurped the spot that Nintendo previously enjoyed with the NES and SNES.

[Anonymous No.7870146]

>>7870127
hehehehehe

[Anonymous No.7870150]

>>7870146
lol how embarrassing

[Anonymous No.7870156]

>>7870146
Oh no.

[Anonymous No.7870157]

>>7870127
>>7870146
Utterly BTFO. There’s no coming back from this.

[Anonymous No.7870163]

>>7870150
>>7870156
>>7870157
Don't worry guys, I'll sign my brain over to /vr/ and you can decide if I'm smart or retarded many years after I'm gone.

[Anonymous No.7870423]

Conker's BFD was atrocious in general (including its "humor" being "poop! sex! so RANDOM x3 lul") and very offensive to the Japanese. Chris Seavor is a faggot.
>inb4 its multiplayer (which was already designed for Twelve Tales)

[Anonymous No.7870560]

>>7870423
Right but it’s funny because they’re in a seemingly innocent world of whimsical cartoon characters. The humor is ironic and shamelessly crude, which is based.

[Anonymous No.7870648]

Bongs cannot into good game design

[Anonymous No.7870690]

>>7868883
They didn’t, Nintendo likes to let second parties do what they want

[Anonymous No.7870695]

>>7868942
You mean the only good games that LJN ever had

[Anonymous No.7870721]

>>7870690
Like let alphadream go bankrupt

I support the idea of letting 2nd parties be free, but sometimes it fucking sucks

[Anonymous No.7870728]

>>7870423
Thought japs liked that kinda stuff tho they like South Park

[Anonymous No.7870734]

>>7868893
The writing only appeared after Rare got bought by Microsoft. There's plenty of interviews since, Rare employees feared a culture change after the takeover which then came true.

Personally, and we'll never know for sure why Nintendo did not buy Rare, I believe Nintendo did not see them as much of a valuable partner as the West did. Rare games did not sell well in Japan and Nintendo now but moreso back then was very Japan focused under Yamouchi. Secondly Rare had a very different working attitude to Nintendo and many other developers, they were not beholden to Nintendo's whim and disliked the oversight, whereas Nintendo wanted to retain some control which they couldn't have. Nintendo likely knew if they bought them outright and wanted to exert control the same thing would have happened when Microsoft bought them.

The best scenario would have been Nintendo buying and Rare remaining independent to make what they like, but obviously that wouldn't and couldn't happen.

[Anonymous No.7870736]

>>7869981
when you spark a fuse, the rest of it burns
how crazy is that?

[Anonymous No.7870740]

>>7868883
They parted ways because Microsoft bought half. Seriously did you even google your own question?

[Anonymous No.7870817]

>>7868883
>stupid nerd worshipping brand names

All the people that ever made any brand good don't even work at those companies anymore, you fucking retards. Stop simping for brands.

[Anonymous No.7870829]

>>7870817
This. The key people that made Rare’s N64 games good were gone by 2000.

[Anonymous No.7872989]

waluigi is all powerful entity according to reddit

hahahaha funny

[Anonymous No.7873086]

>>7868893
There's nothin' to say anymore. So I'll leave behind fall apart right back into your arms.

[Anonymous No.7874513]

>>7868883
The Stamper bros sold the other 49% to Microsoft, while Nintendo owned 49%.
The brothers owned the remaining 2% and thought they could sell Nintendo that 2% for a very inflated price, since Rare was pivotal on making the N64 something better than a gameless piece of shit.

Yamauchi sold their 49% to Microsoft for a pretty penny instead and purchased Retro.

[Anonymous No.7874519]

I think Nintendo was pissed about Conker's BFD and DK64 needing the expansion pack bundled with it.

[Anonymous No.7874529]

>>7874519
Conkers BFD didn't require the expansion pak, and Nintendo wanted the expansion pak bundled with DK64 halfway through development and asked Rare to find ways to use it in their game, the story you heard about DK64 being bundled with it at the very last second and ripping off Nintendo financially to save time fixing bugs is bullshit.

[Anonymous No.7874565]

>>7870648
Fuck off, watch the video with them doing commentary while playing CBFD. They’re absolutely amazing.

[Anonymous No.7874575]

>>7874565
link it

[Anonymous No.7875761]

>>7868883
Microsoft bought Rare? That's why?

[Anonymous No.7876335]

>>7869981
>Goldeneye was made by about 7 people and only 3 or 4 left. The goldeneye team wasn't even the main team at rare

The Stampers got the rights to Goldeneye for Rare. I think they had some sort of time-frame to make the game in or the rights would be void? rare was going to try to self publish or find a third party publisher for Goldeneye, if Nintendo didn't pick it up. Nintendo didn't even treat Goldeneye like a big release game, or give it a large adverting budget. I think Ken Lobb had to convince Nintendo to push the game in rentals. But this was a big surprise hit for Nintendo in 1997, and for the 1997 Christmas season.

[Anonymous No.7876468]

It's hard to know what a Nintendo owned Rareware would've been like but I'll speculate.
Nintendo owning Rare would've definitely changed the way they operated for the worse. Not Microsoft bad but the output would've been less original and more sanitized and less chances taken.

Banjo Threeie would've happened but it would've just been another collectathon that added nothing to the franchise and worse than the first two but it would've sold well. Star Fox Adventures would've kept the dinosaur planet subtitle and would've had an actual final act and would've gotten more love and promotion. A sequel of Star Fox Adventures would've come out.

Kameo would've come out on gamecube and been a success. Grabbed by the ghoulies would've also come out on Gamecube but it would've failed. Rare would've made another Donkey Kong game and it would've gotten bad reviews but likely a better game than Jungle Beat/Konga that we got from nintendo. Donkey Kong Racing would've been released and bombed. Conker remake wouldn't have happened. Perfect Dark Zero would've kept the Cel shaded look but it also would've bombed and not lived up to the original however it would've been better than the Xbox 360 game. No killer instinct since fighting games were mostly dead during this era.

Overall Rare would've been a shadow of their former self with no great outstanding games like they were in the N64 era with a lot of just "ok" games and people in forums would be bashing Nintendo owned rare and how they had lost their magic and that Nintendo changed the company culture and made key rare people leave. If only they knew there was another timeline where microsoft bought them and things were even worse.

I do think Rare would've fared better in the Wii era and again hit a slump in the Wii U era still recycling the same ideas from the Wii era. And Switch era Rare would be just a shadow of their formerself.

[Anonymous No.7876514]

Rare was always a mid-tier developer at best and Nintendo should have never bought them in the first place.

[Anonymous No.7876516]

>all this revisionist history on how Microsoft somehow killed Rare by making them do things against their will
Nuts & Bolts was made willingly by the folks at Rare and they were quite passionate about it.
Microsoft gave them a ton of creative freedom, they just undelivered in some peoples eyes.
I don't even see Nuts & Bolts as even a bad game on it's own, it's just one of those games that shouldn't have been apart of the franchise or simply a spin off game being done on the side while continuing to make actual Banjo platformers.
Microsoft never held a gun to their heads and told them to make games that only Microsoft wanted, they did it out of their interest.
Whatever you see as the downfall of Rare was just them not living up to your expectations anymore.
Such is the case with Playtonic on Yooka-Laylee.

[Anonymous No.7876520]

BK: Nuts & Bolts >>>> soilda breath of the tranny

[Anonymous No.7876857]

>>7869758
>Mojang
They literally infused them with billions and Microsoft is pretty hands off the IP. If anything Microsoft used it to try to make inroads in combining videogames with their enterprise and education market.

[Anonymous No.7876916]

>>7876516
You're forgetting a huge chunk of history. Rare first ported their existing products from Gamecube to Xbox, rushed development, low morale and frankly and that point in Microsoft's first console venture the wrong platform led to poor games and sales.

Rare were then forced to become a sanitised version of themselves with the avatars and made to push Kinect Sports games.

Then after that failed, they were given the freedom to do as they wanted. At which point a huge amount of time has passed, Rare's directors have left, and it's essentially a completely different company.

[Anonymous No.7876921]

>>7876916
Actually nevermind I've mixed up the timeline myself.

[Anonymous No.7876929]

Nintendo knew the Stampers wanted out and weren't interested in buying a building and some IP without the talent behind it.

[Anonymous No.7876992]

>>7876921
Yeah you did mess up everything and it's the same shit i read from brainwashed Nintendo fans that think Nintendo had them going in the right direction the whole time.
From the moment they joined Microsoft it was creative freedom on everything.
They didn't become the kinect company until 2010 until every one of their ventures were considered failures or of mixed results from both commercial success to professional critical reception.
I personally liked a few of their games at Microsoft, but i see other peoples perspective on it as well.
But the whole Microsoft killed Rare thing is just complete horse shit.

[Anonymous No.7877009]

>>7876916
Oh and another thing, i agree sanitized version of Conker on Xbox sucked with censoring certain things, but lets not pretend that actually effected the quality of games being developed.
If you didn't like the games they were making at Microsoft, you simply saw a drop off in quality from them and that's really all it is.

[Anonymous No.7877808]

>>7876992
>>7877009
>agreeing with you
>still angry
Look at yourself

[Anonymous No.7879926]

half the talant left before they were bought. nintendo made the right move

[Anonymous No.7879957]

>>7879926
No, its retarded. Just imagine if this was one of their Japanese partner studios, it never would have happened. GameFreak is arguably a worse developer then Rare, yet they still work with them since they pull in the cash truck. We honestly gonna sit here and pretend shit like Pokemon Channel and Donkey Konga was higher quality then Starfox Adventures or Grabbed by the Ghoulies? I could see them making some changes, but to completely just fucking drop Rare all together, not even attempting to buy out the IPs that had sold so well during the Nintendo/Rare era, just like a complete washing of the hands of their existence after all of the profits and success Nintendo got through them, just seems extremely petty and offensive. There is a reason people say you couldnt do an N64 Mini console without the Rare titles, they were a major player for late 90s Nintendo success, or at the very least in the west. As anon said above, we could argue all day that it was a "drop in quality" reason, but behind the scenes at the top of the company, it most certainly was some sort of Japanese corporate or maybe even developer jealousy over the success Rare had and the hubris of thinking they could completely void themselves of anything related to the company and do completely fine in the coming GameCube era.

[Anonymous No.7879976]

>>7876514
please list all of the other companies of the time that would have realistically decided to partner with Nintendo rather then remain independent and could produce titles of consistent quality anywhere close to what Rare did during the SNES through N64 era

[Anonymous No.7880176]

Rare sank themselves by making too many OCs not financed by Nintendo that they had to reconfigure several times mid-development. Pictured here is one of the worst-selling games ever, as much as I hate to admit it as a staunch Conker fan. A lot of their latter-day pre-Microsoft titles had severely protracted development periods because they made huge adjustments to their games, like making Conker M-rated or Dinosaur Planet into Star Fox. Nintendo was the eventual publisher of Dinosaur Planet but I'm willing to bet Rare spent a lot of their own money on it in the beginning.

Just one of these kinds of mishaps would be enough to kill some developers, but Rare had several all around the same time. Why would Nintendo bail them out? I'm sure they had no ill will toward them, but what reason would they have to do so? Rare would have to give up their original titles and just develop more DK and Star Fox shit, and Nintendo correctly imagined, "We can just do that ourselves."

[Anonymous No.7882206]

they've made better games under MS than their late efforts with nintendo.

[Anonymous No.7882270]

>>7868883
They were developers who starting having a history of being overbudget, behind schedule, and changing their games so much to the point of getting off track and needing creative control assistance from Nintendo.
>Project Dream = Banjo-Kazooie
>Twelve Tales = Conker's Bad Fur Day
>Dinosaur Planet = StarFox Adventures
>Kameo (started on N64, released on Xbox 360)
>Grabbed by the Ghoulies (started immediately after Banjo-Tooie)
Meanwhile an economic bubble had recently burst and Japan started the new millennium with a financial recession. Multiple Japanese companies faced a very real threat of going under. Sega, Capcom, Namco. Nintendo instead invested into native companies, buying Rare would've been seen as a betrayal during this time and would've hurt their image in their home country. If Nintendo had bought Rare instead, we likely wouldn't have seen-
>Wario World (Treasure)
>F-Zero GX (Sega)
>Baten Kaitos (Namco)
>Capcom 5
And possibly more, maybe even some of Nintendo's first party games wouldn't have happened. Rare was simply too big of an investment with the cost of game development increasing rapidly and considering their track record. They were also too big of a risk considering most of their employees were or had already jumped ship during 1999 - 2000 for other projects. I hate it as much as you, but it's not that big of a mystery when you actually delve into what was happening behind the scenes.

[Anonymous No.7882273]

>>7868883
Conker's Bad Fur day. Nintendo wouldn't even market that game. And for good reason, it could tarnish their brand, which they want to be inoffensive enough to withstand cultural shifts over DECADES, the sort you're seeing today.

[Anonymous No.7882329]

>>7882270 (continued)
People always give Valve shit for taking forever or never being able to finish games. Rare was the same way and producers from Nintendo always had to oversee creative control to keep them on schedule and end up with an actual product. Games are always going to have cut content, but Rare's games always had an incredible amount of cut content, not even taking into account the innuendos Nintendo would ask to have removed. Rare's last chance to keep a partnership with Nintendo would've been being able to have StarFox Adventures available as a launch title for GameCube or before Nintendo's investment would've been renewed. Failing to meet this deadline, Nintendo lost faith in Rare and decided not to renew. Simple as.

Anything about Miyamoto hating them and Donkey Kong Country or how Conker's Bad Fur Day would've ruined their reputation is false and frankly bullshit. Nintendo was looking for more adult game and developers at the time (Eternal Darkness, Geist, Metroid Prime). If Conker would've been that devastating, Nintendo having some creative control over Rare would've been able to decide if they want the game to be made or not.

[Anonymous No.7882989]

>>7868883
This has probably already been said in this thread, but wouldn't you part ways with the studio that created the shitshow that is Starfox Adventures?

Which, to be fair, it is nintendos fault for making them change the direction of Dinosaur Planet mid production. Dinosaur Planet might have been a pretty sweet game.

[Anonymous No.7882996]

>>7868987