/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.7837942]

I just realized, turning US hours, threads about consoles and their games are more active while turning EU hours, threads about computers and their games are more active.
What gives?

[Anonymous No.7837953]

Historically at least, computer gaming was more popular in Europe, and consoles more popular in America.

[Anonymous No.7838230]

>>7837942
>i just hurped so hard i durped

[Anonymous No.7838256]

>>7837953
How come? Didn't the crash affect US more? Shouldn't it be the other way around?

[Anonymous No.7838279]

>>7838256
As an Americhad, I can't imagine being a kid in the 80s/90s and wanting gross computer games over Sonic and Mario and arcade ports like Street Fighter etc.

Computer games are what you played at school, where there were no consoles.

[Anonymous No.7838292]

>>7838279
>wanting gross computer games over Sonic and Mario
So it's mostly just capitalistic marketing brainwashing

[Anonymous No.7838298]

>>7838279
Nailed it.

[Anonymous No.7838306]

>>7838292
I'm saying this in hindsight. None, and I mean none of the Eurojank that I see posted on /vr/ (I didn't even know about it as a kid) looks as appealing as donkey kong, ristar, crash, zelda, etc.

When I see that those are the games some /vr/bros across the pond grew up with I just feel bad :/

[Anonymous No.7838315]

>>7838306
>donkey kong, ristar, crash, zelda, etc.
Most of those aren't MADE in the US though and were also sold in the EU
Were talking US and EU, not Japan and EU which you were talking about mentioning Eurojank

[Anonymous No.7838324]

>>7838306
>and I mean none of the Eurojank
That's The thing. Since Yuropoors were more about computers, they could develop their own games too, compared to America where you needed Nintendo certification or a console development kit to create games for their main platforms. I wouldn't say their games were bad, they just had more games and hence there's also more bad games, that is if we are talking about games originating from Europe or America and not things like Zelda that were from neither and sold in both.

[Anonymous No.7838340]

>>7838315
Sorry I wasn't trying to be America-centric and say we *made* the good games, just that we adopted and consumed those. I feel that Mario was designed to appeal to muricans more than anyone

[Anonymous No.7838345]

>>7838306
As a 5 year old, I wanted a gameboy. But as soon as I was old enough to understand that PC had basically free games (through emulation, piracy and freeware games) I only ever bought handhelds, never again a video game console. And the handhelds only with flashcards or HENs.

t. Yuropoor who grew up emulating SNES in 1999 and never looked back afterwards

[Anonymous No.7838367]

>>7838345
Oh, and elaborating on that - this meant I played a lot more PC games than probably the average American. I was born in 1999 and some of the fondest childhood memories were playing all the Lucasarts 3D games (Indiana Jones, Star Wars Racer), Half Life, THPS2, AoE II, Unreal Tournament, MS flight simulator and later things like Oni, Gothic, Max Payne, RTCW, Serious Sam, Jedi Knight... Man, I played so many games on between the ages of 9 to 13, it's unbelievable.

[Anonymous No.7838374]

>>7838367
>born in 1999
in 1990 I meant

[Anonymous No.7838380]

>>7837942
Eurochads grew up with their PC's which they learned to tweak and maintain, sometimes upgrade & repair while enjoying the peak of PC gaming (often for free thanks to piracy). Absolutely am glad to have lived through it, i always looked down upon console kiddies with their Mario and Luigi type of games, they didn't realise they were playing the mainstream shit backed by big corpo, while we were the cool pioneers who modded games and did all sorts of cool things with it...

[Anonymous No.7838383]

>>7838380
>while enjoying the peak of PC gaming (often for free thanks to piracy)
No wonder burgers are mad

[Anonymous No.7838397]

In Europe computers and console sales were not that far apart

_8-bit systems_
Commodore 64: 10 mil units sold in EU
ZX Spectrum: 5 mil units sold in EU
NES: 7.7 mil units sold in EU
SMS: 7 mil units sold in EU

_16-bit systems_
Mega Drive: 9 mil units sold in EU
SNES: 5 mil units sold in EU
Amiga: 4 mil units sold in EU

(source: https://vgsales.fandom.com/wiki/Third_generation_of_video_games and https://vgsales.fandom.com/wiki/Fourth_generation_of_video_games))

In the US computer gaming was a niche and consoles were big.
So they tell you.
In the EU nobody had consoles and computer gaming was all anybody cared about.
Yeah, right.

Don't let anyone tell you that watered down bullshit about burger this and yuro this. That's just /pol/ talk and is 99% pure anal rot.

[Anonymous No.7838409]

>>7838397
>In the US computer gaming was a niche and consoles were big.
True. I was always bullied for being into computers when everyone else was talking SNES, Playstation or N64.

[Anonymous No.7838414]

>>7838380
Based anarchist

[Anonymous No.7838417]

>>7837942
They're more fun to fuck with. Choosing the right parts and configuring them is rewarding. It's often better than the games themselves

[Anonymous No.7838431]

>>7838380
>(often for free thanks to piracy)
You mean unauthorised copying.

[Anonymous No.7838474]

>>7838256
There are many factors honestly
>The Atari 2600 was a massive hit in America and as far as I know almost nowhere else, so America was already set up to prefer home consoles as well as games with controllers rather than M&K
>unlike Europe, Americans weren't cucked with garbage consoles that ran 10 frames slower than the rest of the planet
>by the time computers became remotely decent for video gaming, they were still vastly outclassed by almost all consoles for that purpose
>most computer games were outright shit and there was no "killer app" PC game until DOOM
>computers were seen as work machines for smart people and not something for the average working class, even middle class people to have around
>local/couch multiplayer was a huge deal
>computers were far far far far more expensive than consoles
and finally, the big one
>computers were insanely fucking expensive until the 2000s compared to basically any video game console
seriously, let's go to the mid-to-late 90's. If you wanted to be on the cutting edge of high tech, revolutionary 3D video games at the time you basically had two choices.
One, get a $200 Nintendo 64 which also has 4 player support for fun with friends.
Or two, get a full PC with the most recent 3D accelerator graphics card that will run you well over 1200 dollars and most of the components will be outdated and worthless in less than a year and a half.

[Anonymous No.7838492]

>>7837942
Europooreans couldn’t afford both a console and a PC so they went with the more logical choice. Unfortunately their tech industry never boomed like ours so they were stuck with no nintendos and useless computers.

[Anonymous No.7838504]

>>7837942
You don't know what retro gaming is til you play Descent 3 on a machine you built with two joysticks. Shit is cash as fuck.

[Anonymous No.7838514]

>>7838474
wow an actual good post, here on 4channel

[Anonymous No.7838546]

Oi me speccy

[Anonymous No.7838646]

>>7838345
>Yuropoor who grew up emulating SNES in 1999
I don't see why yuros looks down on console games so much if they're allegedly hardcore PC gamers. Pirated console games have been a staple of PC gaming since the late 90s.

[Anonymous No.7838680]

PC keeps out brainlets and there are a lot of brainlet burgers - /vr/ is proof wisdom does not come with age.

[Anonymous No.7838703]

>>7837942
Ow my fuckin goat..!

[Anonymous No.7838713]

All the views in this thread are either super one sided, tunnel viewed or just dumb memes.
Shame.

[Anonymous No.7838726]

>>7838474
>by the time computers became remotely decent for video gaming, they were still vastly outclassed by almost all consoles for that purpose
>most computer games were outright shit and there was no "killer app" PC game until DOOM

Computers had Ultima when consoles still had single screen games where you had no goal except to get as high a score as you could.

[Anonymous No.7838739]

>>7838713
Always.
By the time this board went up, chan culture was already in its final form that we see today.

[Anonymous No.7838741]

>>7838726
>Have to look game up to even know what it is
>Google searching it gives more results for a meme soft drink than this game vs

>Most iconic FPS of all time in DOOM
>instant recognition
Yeah buddy no one ever gave a fuck about ultima, especially compared to DOOM. They’re not even in the same ballpark in terms of popularity or influence. It was also the first must have

[Anonymous No.7838749]

>>7838741
Zoomer detected. If we're actually alive at the time you would know how massive Ultima was.

[Anonymous No.7838750]

>>7838474
try and port Command and Conquer to a N64. I dare you.

[Anonymous No.7838751]

>>7838680
I know we stole it from Russia but didn't the internet in its current manifestation begin in America? Why didn't Europeans in all their sagacity do it?

[Anonymous No.7838753]

>>7838726
Ultima was an Apple II series until Ultima 6.
PCucks were playing Ultima 3-5 with no music. Plays better on every other system they were released on. Even Sega Master System got a better Ultima 4 than PC.
Ultima was not a PC game until the 90s, simple as.

[Anonymous No.7838754]

lyl actually PC gaming as we know it was mostly born on the Apple II

[Anonymous No.7838757]

>>7838279
It's kinda interesting that the "americhad" is praising Japanese games.

[Anonymous No.7838759]

>>7838754
PC gaming in the 80s was mostly janky ports of games from other computers that were more suited to gaming.

[Anonymous No.7838760]

>>7838757
wait then why Euros make nothing for years but low quality clones of Japanese game on ZX Spectrum?

[Anonymous No.7838762]

>>7838757
I hate the Chad meme almost as much as I dislike America but we carried the N64 (aka the best console of all time) when Europe dropped the ball. I'd say he has a right to gloat.

[Anonymous No.7838767]

>>7838340
Not really. His mustache was because Miyamoto wanted to give a different and unique feel to those sprites. He was making a character for the Japanese children. Even his name was decided by Nintendo of America, according to Miyamoto himself.

[Anonymous No.7838773]

>"I was surprised to learn that people thought Mario was an old man because, I guess, his mustache that reminded you of your uncle. I never thought of him that way. I always assumed he was a young guy, like 23-27, who is rescuing his girlfriend from danger."

[Anonymous No.7838786]

>>7838726
kek you should see King's Quest V on the NES if you want a laugh

[Anonymous No.7838791]

>>7838753
Nobody said "PC", learn to read.

See: >>7838726
>computer games
-computer-

Also Apple II, Amiga, Commodore 64, etc are all computers, just like the PC.

[Anonymous No.7838792]

>>7838754
Commodore 64, Apple II, Atari 800, plus UK micros
Then Atari ST and Amiga
Then came PC's turn

All are computers though

[Anonymous No.7838804]

>>7838292
No, it's just a fact you won't accept. People can make great PC games, but when they do, especially back in the 80s and 90s, they move it to a platform that can make them more money. A platform insulated from piracy and cheap enough to be in as many homes as possible. A console. Nintendo made Arcade games. They could have made PC games, but they didn't because they're smart. All the smartest people knew to release their products to the widest market. Therefore all the best games are found on consoles. The exceptions would be games with control schemes that can't be replicated on a console. Like anything with a mouse or too many hotkeys.

[Anonymous No.7838814]

>>7838749
Well we’re not, are we? Plus, even Zoomers know about DOOM, proving just how much more perennial it is.

[Anonymous No.7838819]

>>7838749
>>7838814
Anyone alive 25 - 35 years ago who was interested in video games outside of arcade knows what Ultima is, even if it's not their cup of tea.

[Anonymous No.7838827]

>>7838256
Americans are notoriously cheap. Most would rather spend $300 on a new console instead of $2,000+ on a gaming pc. It was true in the 90’s, and it’s true now.

[Anonymous No.7838834]

>>7837942
Both console and PC gaming was popular in the US in the 80s/90s. Almost every important computer company is American and the best PC devs in the 90s were American.

[Anonymous No.7838840]

>>7838834
>Almost every important computer company is American and the best PC devs in the 90s were American.
See >>7838713
You're absolutely disconnected from reality or very young if you believe that

[Anonymous No.7838843]

Americans had nothing except storybooks and spreadsheets while Europeans had Creatures, Jack the Nipper, Turrican, Giana Sisters, Dizzy, and James Pond.

[Anonymous No.7838845]

>>7838827
Consoles were like $100

[Anonymous No.7838847]

>>7838840
You're delusional

[Anonymous No.7838848]

>>7838827
No shit you retard. You'd buy a computer and would have an obsolete operating system and components within 3 years. They were serious investments and households could only afford one for the entire house.

[Anonymous No.7838849]

Console games were far superior to PC games until the early 2000s.

[Anonymous No.7838850]

or to use another example Total Annihiliation was, what, 1997? try doing that on a N64.

[Anonymous No.7838854]

My first console was a taiwanese NES clone called Dendy in 1996, you all know this shit about Russia, I think.
Then Sega MD a year later. Fun thing is, we had games like phantasy star or shining force but usually the cartridges didn't have the save battery or even the slot for it, so yeah. Gaming was hard.
Then I got a PS1 in the late 98 and I can't even tell how many good memories I have about this one and PS1 games in general. Then I got PC in 2000 and while I had consoles after that it was never on the same level. The thing is, at least here in Russia, console games were seen as childish. Not because of the blood and dismemberment etc. but because they were rather simple I guess, they had too many restrictions compared to PC games. All people around my age prefer playing PC games even if they like consoles and I think only zoomers and nintendo cargo-cult fanboys like consoles more.

[Anonymous No.7838871]

>>7838762
>we carried the N64
Yet the best games are either Japanese or Euro.

[Anonymous No.7838873]

>>7838726
>>7838750
Literal who games compared to Tekken, Gran Turismo, Mario 64, etc. that defined the back half of the 90s.

[Anonymous No.7838874]

>be american
>knew kids with Commodore 64 and Amiga computers, as well as consoles
>didn't know anybody who had to play Nintendo on their retarded 50hz tv
That's all you need to know about the state of gaming in Europe. They have no money and no choices, so they seethe and cope.

[Anonymous No.7838876]

>>7838757
>>7838871
Thread's about retro console vs pc, not the region in which the games are produced. You're hung up on the term "eurojank" which was used one time.

[Anonymous No.7838887]

>>7838845
In 1989 maybe.

[Anonymous No.7838896]

>>7838887
this is a later ad than when I got my snes. But I got one and Top Gear for less than 200.

[Anonymous No.7838942]

>>7838292
>games from exploited college students with little to no QA vs. games from salarymen with an actual work ethic
>HECKIN MARKETERINOOOOOO
you can't possibly argue the console arena was worse than what euro computers had, very rarely you had great games made by people who knew their shit on the Amiga for instance.

[Anonymous No.7838943]

>>7838873
>actually thinking C&C and Ultima are less known than GT or M64
HAHAHAH

[Anonymous No.7838945]

>>7838397
basado

[Anonymous No.7838953]

>>7838943

[Anonymous No.7838954]

>>7838876
>console vs pc,
It's Console VS Computer
Even still in the 90's, PC wasn't as dominant as now

[Anonymous No.7838963]

Americans are also the only people who think n64 was better than ps1.

[Anonymous No.7838964]

>>7838963
No we don't.

[Anonymous No.7838981]

>>7838964
This very board has had threads filling with raging arguments to that affect for the last month or so.

[Anonymous No.7838994]

>>7838474
>Or two, get a full PC with the most recent 3D accelerator graphics card that will run you well over 1200 dollars and most of the components will be outdated and worthless in less than a year and a half.
Sure senpai, the PC my dad purchased (for his job) in 1997 for 1000 Deutsche Mark (~$500) was able to run Shadows of the Empire at a higher resolution and graphical quality than the N64 and like 2 years later I was playing Mario Party via Project64 on that same machine. N64 literally btfo by a spreadsheet machine that I didn't even have to wish for Christmas.

Good times.

[Anonymous No.7839028]

>>7838827
Moore’s Law is dead and supply chains are fucked so I’m getting many more years out of my $2000 gaming PC from 2018 than I would have in the 90s.

[Anonymous No.7839062]

>>7839028
>Moore’s Law is dead
That's one of the biggest FUDs.
Just because single core performance has stalled, doesn't mean we don't get more transistors and cores in CPUs with multicore performance increasing and same for efficiency.
It only looks like things aren't progressing as fast since we're over a minimum barrier, but compare a CPU from 2015 VS one from last year in actual multi core workloads and it's obvious.
Heck, look at RPCS3 for example on a 6600k vs a 5600X, the performance difference is several times.

[Anonymous No.7839091]

>>7839062
>cheating by just adding more cores
Cool now find hardware thats in stock. Oh wait, you can’t.

[Anonymous No.7839118]

>>7839091
>progress is cheating
I guess you called SIMD extensions in the 90's as cheating too?

[Anonymous No.7839153]

>>7839118
Yes. That was the beginning of BLOAT

[Anonymous No.7839182]

>>7839153
By your logic Moore's Law itself is "bloat".

[Anonymous No.7839193]

>>7838431
He didn't write anything wrong. "Computer piracy" is a colloquialism for unauthorised copying.

[Anonymous No.7839218]

>>7839062
>cores
There is a limit to cost-effective parallelization of any task.

[Anonymous No.7839234]

>>7839182
Yes. I didn’t need anything past the n64 or windows 95

[Anonymous No.7839245]

>>7839218
A limit we're very far from yet for most tasks.

>>7839234
The architectures those use and run on are already far more complex than simple ALUs dealing with fixed point numbers. Hence, by your logic, bloat.
Since saying anything that makes a collection of transistors built in a specific order more efficient, like SIMD, is bloat by your very own words.

[Anonymous No.7839251]

>>7838954
I think it’s more accurate to say that consoles and PCs aren’t really separated by the same divide they used to be. Nowadays they pretty much share all the same games outside of certain genres that remain PC focused like hardcore sims and grand strategy.

[Anonymous No.7839267]

>>7839245
Yes its bloat

[Anonymous No.7839298]

>>7839251
I don't think that line has actually changed as much
In the early days PC used to be left out more compared to other computers like Atari or Amiga, that share a lot of their library with consoles too

[Anonymous No.7839309]

>>7839245
>A limit we're very far from yet for most tasks.
Every game with sufficiently complex world simulation bottlenecks the modern consumer CPUs despite that somehow. Guess if we throw a hundred at it the problem will finally go away. A hundred is large enough, right?

[Anonymous No.7839376]

>>7839298
Yeah I should’ve clarified. “PC” these days is essentially synonymous with Windows gaming. That’s more what I meant.

[Anonymous No.7839402]

>>7839062
>single core performance plateaued for 10 years
>frequency plateaued for 15 years
>typical watts plateaued for 20 years, if you ignore the new intel 14+++++++ nm housefires
>but more cores!

My CPU has 8 cores and I don’t need half of them

[Anonymous No.7839406]

>>7839402
4 cores 3 ghz is the top of sensible mountain (tm) i just trademarked that

[Anonymous No.7839428]

>>7839376
Is there any reason for that? Why old computer are not called PC and PC is always "windows"?

[Anonymous No.7839457]

>>7839402
Intel promised 10ghz cpus and everyone believed them in 2007. Turns out they had no idea how the fuck to get there and went "well, that is a tomorrow problem" and slammed straight into all kinds of hurdles and a shitload of coding knowledge and tools has taken over a decade to realise that 1) we aren't getting those 10ghz cpus and 2) how to actually code your shit for parallelisation as much as possible around serial tasks. Amusingly Intel has helped AMD loads by spending a silly amount of time preaching 9and teaching) multi-threaded coding once they realised they were fucked for the long haul on clock scaling as zen gets to ride the wave of the knowledge base. Nobody should be expecting N thread scaling but even here and now 4c/4t cpus are turbo dead for the mightiest game engines.

Interestingly as well modern cpus are so fast most of the time the sort of desktop workloads used on, well desktops (big boi servers are a different animal) they are waiting on data to be fed into cache to actually compute it as core performance has scaled way beyond what memory has. AMD's new(ish) 3D stacking for cache is essentially a way to alleviate those sorts of stalls by simply having MOAR CACHE LOL on the die to keep threads fed (and to hide latency penalties going across CCD's, but Intel has a similar problem just not as pronounced). What we need to see is memory get an order of magnitude faster to keep up with the cpu cores which assists in thread scaling performance to a degree. I am not saying cache is the be-all and end-all bottleneck for thread scaling at all fyi.

[Anonymous No.7839462]

>>7839428
Because: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Personal_Computer

Most old micro home computers had custom chipsets and weren't easy to clone, IBM used off the shelf normal parts and other companies started cloning them to sell too, they were call "PC Compatible", hence PC became a platform itself, not a single line of computers.

Before that people used the term "personal computer" not that much and interchangeably with microcomputer or home computer or micro, etc.
After PC Compatible became popular, PC started to mean a specific set of hardware your software ran on, like a SNES.

Kind of like Nintendo making the NES and then it being cloned and the platform being called Famiclones, but they all use the same game cartridges.

[Anonymous No.7839467]

>>7839428
Hi I’m a mac and I’m a PC commercials

Also back then there were like 20 different vendors selling viable “PCs” before Microsoft became a monopoly

[Anonymous No.7839479]

>>7839402
>>single core performance plateaued for 10 years
Thanks Intel and capitalism.
Most development turning that time was focused also on servers and mobile market, example ARM. Big things happened, most people, like you, just don't know about it because you're not looking into it.

>>frequency plateaued for 15 years
Not really, we haven't changed much for 15 years, we had 5GHz capable CPUs on the concumer market over 10 years ago.

>>typical watts plateaued for 20 years, if you ignore the new intel 14+++++++ nm housefires
That's not true. We have come a LONG way in terms of efficiency, the most progress we made was from keeping the performance the same while making the chips more efficient.

>>but more cores!
The most logical progression from now after we hit the GHz barrier. Adding cores and cache.

>My CPU has 8 cores and I don’t need half of them
Because either you don't do anything that requires said performance, like actual productivity or you're running shit software, that's just not optimized well for 8 over 4 cores.
Since 4 cores were a high end amount for years, most software was optimized to make use of 4 hardware threads the most.

Thankfully this is changing thanks to AMD, we see software and games utilizing more cores better all the time.

As mentioned in the post you're replying to, look at the performance difference of something like a 6600k against a 5600X, one manages to run the games barely at 30 FPS while the other easily does 200 FPS (with unlock patches).

[Anonymous No.7839491]

>>7839479
>Adding cores
Pretty obvious it's diminishing returns territory now.

>and cache.
But this has merit.

[Anonymous No.7839493]

>>7839309
Not really, look at Doom 2016 or Eternal, actually well optimized multithreading that scales really well.
Most examples are just bad, since the software is bad.

You must realize that no developer will put money on developing for 12 cores if it only makes up 2% of the user base that will buy your software or game, they optimize for the majority, which today is still between 4 - 8 cores.

>Every game with sufficiently complex world simulation bottlenecks the modern consumer CPUs
They either:
Don't and max at most 8 cores, since they are actually optimized for AMD based consoles
or
Do and (like Doom) would scale easily to a 100 cores and run 5x faster compared to running on 10 cores.

[Anonymous No.7839501]

>>7839491
>Pretty obvious it's diminishing returns territory now.
See >>7839493

We're really far from diminishing returns, the only problem is that our software (and games) aren't yet pushed for said hardware.
The only diminishing returns right now are related to developers and market, not the actual hardware available.

This has always been like that though, software always lags behind hardware.
I had a dual CPU computer with 4 logical threads 20 years ago, but no game took advantage of that, yet 10 years later most games still ran fine on it because they actually utilized the thread (Since Core Duo became a thing and developers actually accounted for 2-4 hardware threads).

[Anonymous No.7839508]

>>7839501
>I had a dual CPU computer with 4 logical threads 20 years ago, but no game took advantage of that, yet 10 years later most games still ran fine on it because they actually utilized the thread (Since Core Duo became a thing and developers actually accounted for 2-4 hardware threads).
Kek when I bought my FX-8350 it was shit compared to a 4770k, but now there's games that actually run better on it than a 4770k

[Anonymous No.7839510]

>>7839501
So an order of magnitude increase in core number translates to a half an order of magnitude of speed increase? What's the formula?

[Anonymous No.7839523]

>>7839510
>So an order of magnitude increase in core number translates to a half an order of magnitude of speed increase?
Yes, it scales until there's an actual diminishing returns wall, which we aren't close yet.

>What's the formula?
That was from my ass, but plenty actual ones exist.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amdahl%27s_law

>>7839508
That's a great example though and we had a thread about that on /g/.
Games from 2012 didn't utilize 8 cores, so a 4 core Haswell chip did really well, since software was made around that core count.
After 2014 and the launch of 8 core consoles, developers started optimizing for 8 cores to get the most out of the consoles.
Now we also have concumer chips that have 8 or more cores and a lot scales up to that.
Hence why 8 weaker cores from 10 years ago do a lot better than 4 stronger cores do now. Even when it was the other way around.

[Anonymous No.7839530]

I see this chart thrown around a lot, not sure how much merit it has.

[Anonymous No.7839545]

>>7839530
Same formula I just posted in >>7839523
As you can see, we're far with current 6 - 16 core CPUs from being able to harvest a lot of performance from parallelizing the cores.

Also people seem to forget it's not just about performance, if we can get better efficiency out of 16 cores than 4 cores, it's still progress, but till now we get both efficiency and performance.

[Anonymous No.7839552]

>>7839530
I think Terry Davis had a 64 core processor. He wrote Temple OS to use all of them at once. That's pretty close to diminishing returns.

[Anonymous No.7839684]

>>7838256
I believe the first non-gray import console I bought in Germany was the N64. I believe the SNES was somewhat available, but nobody had one.

[Anonymous No.7839717]

>>7839684
East Germany, uh?
Germany and UK got official consoles since SNES for Nintendo and for Sega since Master System.

[Anonymous No.7839747]

>>7839717
No, West Germany. I think the SNES was available but games cost like $150 in today's money. Now that you mention it, yeah, I've seen advertisments for the Master System and Phantasy Star in vidya mags back then.
It's probably just my perception since nobody I knew had a console.

[Anonymous No.7841349]

>>7839747
When was that?

[Anonymous No.7841384]

>>7838256
The C64 and Amiga were very popular in Europe and were capable gaming systems, but in America it seems the Apple II and IBM compatibles were what almost everyone used, and neither of them were very good at gaming (obviously this started changing for IBM compatibles in the early 90s). The NES sold far less in Europe than it did in America. In my country, I don't think there even existed a magazine for console games until the 2000s. It was all computers.

[Anonymous No.7841398]

>>7839717
Getting (grey-)import systems was quite common among hardcore gamers here in Germany, despite official releases.

[Anonymous No.7841513]

>>7841384
>but in America it seems the Apple II and IBM compatibles were what almost everyone used
That's bullshit
We used less Amigas probably but C64 was just as popular and IBM PC and compadibles weren't as popular (in the 80's) as people believe today
Apple II's were expensive too but more popular than in Europe

[Anonymous No.7841571]

>>7837942
youre a stupid nigger

[Anonymous No.7841586]

>>7837942
Nice period-accurate picture with that FUCKING. STUPID ASS. HEADSET. You CUNT.

[Anonymous No.7841593]

>>7841586
That's a "sleeper", it's a modern computer and OS, just inside a old case and the OS is themed.

[Anonymous No.7841619]

>>7841513
Looking at Wikipedia, it says the C64 had 30-40% market share in America, but I don't understand how that would be possible. It's like the system was memoryholed in America at some point.

[Anonymous No.7841626]

>>7841619
What? Ask any 45+ American what computers they remember, C64 was extremely popular in America and it's common knowledge and talked about all the time

[Anonymous No.7841652]

>>7841513
Global PC market share over the years

[Anonymous No.7841657]

>>7841652
That's because the PC was a popular office machine and majority of PC sales until the late 90's were enterprise/office sales.
Hence why it's market share is so big.

Same with Apple II but with schools, while things like Commodore 64 were more popular at home.

The discussion is mostly about gaming and home usage though. Office use is irrelevant here.

[Anonymous No.7841659]

>>7841619
>>7841652
>>7841657
makes perfect sense looking at that, that c64 was far more popular at homes than the ibm pc

[Anonymous No.7841669]

>>7837942
I don't know what they post in late US hours, but in early US hours there's indeed an increase of cuck-posting and "built for BBC".

[Anonymous No.7841670]

>>7841657
>The discussion is mostly about gaming and home usage though. Office use is irrelevant here.
There is no hard data on how many people played games on PCs. Impossible to know for sure.
However, you can take an educated guess by compiling the sales data for PC games, or for starters, just sort by date and check for the highest selling PC games of the '80s and '90s:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_PC_games

[Anonymous No.7841678]

>>7841670
The hard fact is that you can roughly see that majority bulk buyers for PCs were companies and not retailers. Hence why PC has huge global market share but wasn't as popular in homes.
Don't tell me this is news to you.

Also look at citations on your list, those are multiplats and for some reason, some of those numbers are not PC only but other platforms too, picked a random game and the citation took it's number from MSX sales (maybe they thought MSX was PC compatible because Microsoft, but it's not).

[Anonymous No.7841679]

>>7841670
Never mind, I found something better:
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/50-years-gaming-history-revenue-stream/

[Anonymous No.7841682]

>>7841679
The statistics in that picture use general non-console sales numbers for "PC" for some reason.

While >>7841670 is a typical poor quality Wikipedia article.
The picture and article in >>7841679 is just written by a reporter unfamiliar with the history and definitions of the things being talked about.
I know because we had a long thread about analyzing that article and picture.

Not trying to be a asshole, just the facts stated are poor quality and mostly irrelevant.

[Anonymous No.7841692]

>>7841679
I heard about the gaming crash and about how nintendo took advantage at moment. It looks to me like it happened at the same time so it's not something nintendo planned. They were just extremely lucky being at the right place at the right time.

[Anonymous No.7841704]

>>7841692
It's a little of both.
They planned to enter the market anyways, but the turned the crash into a benefit with their marketing.

[Anonymous No.7841705]

>>7841678
>The hard fact is
You talk about hard facts, but give no sources

[Anonymous No.7841707]

>>7841692
>>7841704
eh, that's actually one of the reasons why americans have the attitude that games are for children and computers are for work, partially the fault of nintendo and the crash

[Anonymous No.7841708]

>>7841705
Look up what "IBM" means, it's a acronym, then come back

[Anonymous No.7841713]

>>7841682
>Not trying to be a asshole
You are just trying to discredit without any proof or sources, and we should all just BELIEVE in you, the expert.
At least fish out your thread, that epic discussion on 4chan, which is, of course, irrefutable proof, by virtue of having occurred on 4chan

[Anonymous No.7841718]

>>7841708
>but it says so in the name!

[Anonymous No.7841719]

>>7838741
I dont even like computer games and agree that it was mostly garbage but you are a genuine retard to say ultima is unheard of and not influential. These statements are so fucking stupid it has to be troll

[Anonymous No.7841732]

>>7841713
Provide credible proof than to disprove.

Honestly, I'm more here for wasting time and the more people act like what I'm talking about is news the more interesting it is.
Since I'd love to see someone actually giving hard fact that shows a PC Compatibles being more popular here in the US than any other computer, which is not true. But entertaining the less.

Open articles on Home Computers, IBM PC and PC Compatible on Wikipedia and read through them. If you're so inclined for sauces and love Wikipedia.

Just remember to read the CITATIONs in Wikipedia, not just the article.

I don't know if you read the thread but other anons made good arguments towards this, related to people buying computers for homes and investments, etc.
Nobody bought a 2000 USD computer for home use if there were more capable 500 USD ones fitting better for the role (unless you were a business and wanted the business benefits of the whole support and software and didn't care about hardware).

>>7841718
You do that too.
Even if you look at >>7841652 and >>7841619 "it says the C64 had 30-40% market share in America" should be enough to see the point though.

>>7841713
Anyways, what is your main point if you want to prove? I'm kind of confused what you actually want to prove.
I guess you want to state that PC Compatible was more popular at home turning the 80's and most 90's than non-PC Compatible platforms like Apple II and Commodore 64?

[Anonymous No.7841736]

>>7841713
>You are just trying to discredit without any proof or sources
Also I already pointed out several flaws of your sources, like the FIRST game on your Wikipedia list that's supposed to be "PC, MacOS or Linux" is actually a number of copies sold including MSX. You didn't even bother to check, did you?

I mean I'm probably just being shitposted by you since you're bored and like the fact that I talk to you about this and you try to keep me in the discussion by making counter arguments without even checking the arguments I make.
But that's fair, 4chan after all.

[Anonymous No.7841741]

>>7841736
MSX is a personal home computer you dumb Mongoloid

[Anonymous No.7841751]

>>7841741
Glad you agree, since the numbers were just supposed to be "PC Compatible" and MSX is not one.

>you dumb Mongoloid
You too <3

[Anonymous No.7841760]

>>7841732
>what is your main point
You just insert your own preconceptions into this argument.
I'm on no ones "side".
I don't care about your narrative.
I care about what you can glean from the data that is available.
You just cry "prove it" and "this is not credible", but you bring no data, no sources. You look down upon such things.
You wallow in false equivalency. You put the acronym of IBM and data from a researcher on the same level of credibility and proof.
You talk much, but say NOTHING

[Anonymous No.7841762]

>>7841751
>>7841751
>PC compatible
So by your own definition (which is obviously different from the wikipedia definition of "personal computer"), Amiga and c64 are not PCs because they don't run modern x86 compatible operating systems? Well glad we cleared that up, you are actually retarded.

[Anonymous No.7841767]

>>7841762
Ironically enough, msx would he more "PC compatible" than Amiga and c64 because it at least supported BASIC, as did DOS and Windows. On the other hand, it's a pretty stupid way of looking at things because that would make the M1 Macbook and any PowerPC Mac not a PC. Of course, all of these devices, including the MSX are PCs and therefore the numbers on Wikipedia are correct, at least concerning this specific criticism.

[Anonymous No.7841771]

>>7841736
If you go on that Article, click on the word personal computer (games that are on this platform), press CTRL+F, enter "MSX" and be amazed.

[Anonymous No.7841776]

>>7841760
That's my point, yes. If you're too dumb to check that yourself I'm just going to point and laugh at you.
Specially if you're clueless about such common knowledge.

But I see you're not that person, you know very well what I'm talking about, you're just point out I'm being unfair in your safespace.

>>7841762
PC means PC Compatible, it means a a computer that runs IBM PC software.
That was the whole point.

See:
>>7841384
>>7841513
>>7841652
>>7841657

Next time try to follow a post chain through before you reply to it.

>So by your own definition (which is obviously different from the wikipedia definition of "personal computer")
I base my definition on the definition of PC Compatible.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_PC_compatible

>Amiga and c64 are not PCs
Correct, they are microcomputers, computers, personal computer but they are not PC (the platform).

>because they don't run modern x86 compatible operating systems?
Modern? You realize DOS is from 1980?

>Well glad we cleared that up, you are actually retarded.
<3

I'd actually make more fun of you for the last statement but that's just too sad.


>>7841767
>Ironically enough, msx would he more "PC compatible" than Amiga and c64 because it at least supported BASIC
Commodore used Microsoft BASIC too, just like MSX.

>because that would make the M1 Macbook and any PowerPC Mac not a PC.
They are not PCs. Correct.

I joined this thread after everyone in this thread already agreed that PC = IBM PC Compatible, a PLATFORM, not a acronym for "Personal Computer" itself.
Apple themselves made the difference with PowerPC Macs, saying Mac is not a PC, with their Mac VS PC ads.

> Of course, all of these devices, including the MSX are PCs and therefore the numbers on Wikipedia are correct, at least concerning this specific criticism.
They are all personal computers, true, they are not PCs though.
That's like saying all consoles are NES otherwise.

[Anonymous No.7841779]

test

[Anonymous No.7841783]

>>7841771
Did you even read my post before responding? Citations.
What's written in the article is meaningless, click on the CITATION that says where they take the number from.

I could say I'm king of Nigeria on a Wikipedia article, but I can't put a valid citation to it.

Click on Hydlide
Then check the "1 MIllion" and click on the citation.
Then open the link (this one https://www.kinephanos.ca/2015/history-of-japanese-video-games ).
Oh look!
"So that’s 1 million sales divided between the PC-88, the PC-98, the PC-66, Sharp’s X-1, Fujitsu’s FM-7, the MSX1, and MSX2, and finally the MZ-2000."
Not IBM PC, unlike the article states "Games that have sold or shipped at least one million copies on PC platforms, such as Microsoft Windows, macOS, and Linux".

Great proof mate.

Also even randomly clicking around, Diablo 1 sales refer to Diablo 2 LOD sales instead.
So many mistakes even when randomly checking, two first once I checked were lies.

No wonder people think /vr/ is full of braindeads.

[Anonymous No.7841790]

>>7841767
>Of course, all of these devices, including the MSX are PCs and therefore the numbers on Wikipedia are correct, at least concerning this specific criticism.
but then what's the point in posting that to compare C64, Apple II and IBM PC sales in games if the sales don't make a difference between them? >>7841670

[Anonymous No.7841793]

>>7841776
>I joined this thread after everyone in this thread already agreed that PC = IBM PC Compatible, a PLATFORM, not a acronym for "Personal Computer" itself.

And I disagree, as does Wikipedia. Also, nice backpaddling, in >>7841678 you wrote
>Also look at citations on your list, those are multiplats and for some reason, some of those numbers are not PC only but other platforms too, picked a random game and the citation took it's number from MSX sales (maybe they thought MSX was PC compatible because Microsoft, but it's not).
This just shows that you did not read the Wikipedia article because Wikipedia correctly understands "PC" as personal computer, not IBM PC compatible or whatever made up nonsense you suppose in this discussion.

Further, in >>7841736 you write
>like the FIRST game on your Wikipedia list that's supposed to be "PC, MacOS or Linux" is actually a number of copies sold including MSX.
This time you even quoted "MacOS or Linux", both of which are not necessarily IBM PC compatible. This should have been your clue that other people in this thread do not agree with this stupidly narrow definition of PC Games.

[Anonymous No.7841801]

>>7841783
>Did you even read my post before responding? Citations.
Yes, the citation is my point you gigantic moron. MSX falls under the definition of PC this list uses.

I guess what you're trying to say is "that list doesn't count, it includes non IBM compatible games" but what you're instead doing is make an ass of yourself by trying to prove some internal inconsistency within this Wikipedia list.

[Anonymous No.7841802]

>>7841783
>No wonder people think /vr/ is full of braindeads.
>everyone but me is stupid

[Anonymous No.7841808]

>>7841793
>And I disagree, as does Wikipedia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_PC_compatible

Even if you disagree, me and this anon ( >>7841670 ) already agreed on what we mean under PC (meaning PC Compatible).
So it's pointless related to our argument.

>This just shows that you did not read the Wikipedia article because Wikipedia correctly understands "PC" as personal computer, not IBM PC compatible
Wikipedia points it out in that article that they are talking about PC Compatible as a standard/platform and not Personal Computer.
See: "Games that have sold or shipped at least one million copies on PC platforms, such as Microsoft Windows, macOS, and Linux".
"
So you're saying that a FM-7 runs Windows or macOS or Linux? You realize now why this list is so fucked up because people added non-PC games to a list that was supposed to be about PC.

>This time you even quoted "MacOS or Linux", both of which are not necessarily IBM PC compatible.
Doesn't matter, since me and the other anon already agreed that we are talking about PC as PC Compatible and comparing it to Apple II, C64, etc.

>>7841801
>Yes, the citation is my point you gigantic moron. MSX falls under the definition of PC this list uses.
Refer to the above.
Sure even if you tried to put MSX into that list by saying it runs DOS, it's still not a PC as in PC Compatible, because no X86 CPU for example.
But you know that's bullshiit anyways since right next to MSX it says FM-7, which is even less related to PC (platform) than a MSX is. Making your argument entirely moot.

>I guess what you're trying to say is "that list doesn't count, it includes non IBM compatible games"
Exactly, because the reason this list is so fucked up is probably because people are confusing Personal Computer and PC Compatible.

>>7841802
I'm pretty fucking dumb, no worries.
But when /vr/ is being called dumb for not knowing basic computer history or terminology, I can see why.

[Anonymous No.7841813]

>>7841783
>Also even randomly clicking around, Diablo 1 sales refer to Diablo 2 LOD sales instead.
Not really. Again, you didn't read properly. Wikipedia says Diablo II 4 million, Diablo 1 2 million. The link for both is the same, citation 32. It says

>http://www.gamesfirst.com/articles/diablo2_sales.htm

>When the original Diablo released in 1997, it was considered a critical success and reached number one on NPD INTELECT* during its first month in stores. The game has sold in excess of 2.5 million copies worldwide and was honored as the number-one selling computer role-playing game in 1997 as well as being named Game of the Year by Computer Gaming World.

So yes, it is the number for Diablo 1 and you're still a moron.

[Anonymous No.7841814]

>>7841793
>>7841808

>This time you even quoted "MacOS or Linux", both of which are not necessarily IBM PC compatible. This should have been your clue that other people in this thread do not agree with this stupidly narrow definition of PC Games.

The one thing to point out is WHY DID YOU POST IT AS A SOURCE FOR IBM PC VS COMMODORE 64 THEN?

[Anonymous No.7841818]

>>7841813
Oh yes, I am a moron! Is says it at the very bottom of the page it also refers to Diablo 1.
Thank you for the correction, I missed that.

The good thing is, that you proved that argument I made being false is that you failed to prove the other ones and you actually did try, since you did read thru the other citations to see the Diablo one being false accused by me.

So now you know exactly what I actually meant.

Also >>7841814

[Anonymous No.7841824]

>>7841814
I didn't post the source, I just think you're retarded for making this thread, which was about PC (as in, home computers) vs consoles about some small subset of home computers.

>>7841808
>See: "Games that have sold or shipped at least one million copies on PC platforms, such as Microsoft Windows, macOS, and Linux".
Do you know the meaning of the the phrase "such as"? These are examples. There are countless PC platforms and this list includes games for all of them, as it should.

>>7841808
>So you're saying that a FM-7 runs Windows or macOS or Linux? You realize now why this list is so fucked up because people added non-PC games to a list that was supposed to be about PC.
No, but I think it's a PC and games sold for this platform deserve to be on this list and are relevant to this discussion.

[Anonymous No.7841827]

>>7841818
>whatabout this though
What are you, 12?

[Anonymous No.7841831]

>>7841818
>The good thing is, that you proved that argument I made being false is that you failed to prove the other ones and you actually did try, since you did read thru the other citations to see the Diablo one being false accused by me.
I am not that guy, take your meds

[Anonymous No.7841834]

>>7841793
So, let's put "IBM-PC ONLY" anon to the side for one moment.
Computer game sales and console game sales have me at a loss. The best-selling consoles games sold far more than the best-selling computer games. But the amount of games, big and small, released on computers vastly dwarves the console game releases.
Can we even make a guess at "how many computer games sold" vs "how many console games sold"??
I would venture that getting reliable sales data for the whole of computer games is pretty much impossible?
Maybe some anon could help. Maybe it was in this thread already. I can't find shit.

[Anonymous No.7841840]

>>7837942
can't speak for westerners but in eastern yurop people often had pc for work and if parents let you you got to play games on that, unlike console which really only were a luxury for rich people. and if later on you got opportunity to get a pc of your own, obviously you wanted a pc as you didn't really have reason to get or know much about consoles.

so majority of people growing up didn't get to play on consoles at all (me included, i must've played on console at all only several times in my whole life) and here you end up with americans having no idea about pc classics or various eurojank that everyone played and vice versa, i pretty much learn about console games from here only since i never played any of them when young.

[Anonymous No.7841841]

>>7841824
>I didn't post the source, I just think you're retarded for making this thread, which was about PC (as in, home computers) vs consoles about some small subset of home computers.
I didn't make this thread, as I said I already joined it after the first PC vs console vs microcomputer arguments took place at the beginning.

>Do you know the meaning of the the phrase "such as"? These are examples. There are countless PC platforms and this list includes games for all of them, as it should.
I agree and I get that, but then why provide it as source for IBM PC sales?

>No, but I think it's a PC and games sold for this platform deserve to be on this list and are relevant to this discussion.
Sure, we can have a computer game list, that's fine. But then it's not a IBM PC games sales list.

>>7841827
<3

>>7841831
Honestly didn't think you were, since then your arguments about IBM PC game sales numbers would not make sense.
But since everyone is anonymous, I never know if I'm talking to one person shitposting as several or actually different people. Meds or not, shitposting is common, don't need a condition that requires meds to believe that.

>>7841834
Thanks and good point.

>But the amount of games, big and small, released on computers vastly dwarves the console game releases.
Because computers are a open platform anyone can make games for.
That's why Euros have so many shovelware games, it doesn't mean that comparing decent games 1:1 in numbers means they have less, it just means they have a lot more of shit games too.

The Wikipedia list is pretty good in terms of whole computer game sales though. Many of the citations even have computer VS console sales numbers in them.

[Anonymous No.7842049]

>>7841626
That's the thing. I haven't seen it talked about. The C64 seems to only have really existed in Europe.

[Anonymous No.7842052]

>>7841619
>It's like the system was memoryholed in America at some point

In that case it's more a selective consequence of most popular histories of the personal computer industry like Fire in the Valley being written by Apple fanboys in California. There's also the common opinion that if a computer wasn't relevant for enterprise software it wasn't a "real" machine. So in that spirit Commodore and Atari get brushed off as video game/toy things and Apple or whatever were the real deal.

[Anonymous No.7842061]

>>7842049
dunno what you mean but every old-time/boomer neckbeard had one back in the day

[Anonymous No.7842064]

>>7842049
The c64 lifetime sales were about five times higher in Europe than in the US, but in relative terms the C64 was still strong in the US, with numbers not far apart from Apple II and Atari machines.

[Anonymous No.7842069]

>>7842064
Total C64 sales were about 12 million worldwide with North American sales probably 5 million. it was not that wide of a gap.

[Anonymous No.7842085]

>>7842069
We need to compare sources, cause this:
https://vgsales.fandom.com/wiki/Third_generation_of_video_games#Western_Europe
says that it sold about 2 mil in the US.

[Anonymous No.7842095]

>>7842069
>with North American sales probably 5 million
The majority of that was in 1983-85. European sales peaked later on and more towards the end of the decade because they were expensive in the early years and Europeans were poor. Even the Amiga didn't really get big in Europe until 89 when it was already a few years old, because it took a long time for prices to come down enough.

[Anonymous No.7842097]

>>7842085
Read https://www.pagetable.com/?p=547
That's the problem, Commodore what shit keeping track

[Anonymous No.7842101]

>>7842095
Yeah of course, the C64 was in production for 20 years and sold even longer.
Turning its hay day it was just as popular, if not more, in the US as >>7842061 said and later gained more popularity in EU

[Anonymous No.7842106]

Reminder that Australia kun never recovered from the pulseline thread

[Anonymous No.7842108]

>>7842101
>Yeah of course, the C64 was in production for 20 years and
wait wut? production ended in probably 1991 or so. it actually wasn't due to lack of demand which was still pretty strong in Europe but because Commodore's suppliers were phasing out single sided 5.25" drive mechanisms so they couldn't make any more 1541s.

[Anonymous No.7842125]

>>7842061
Actually it's more a case of US C64 user base moved onto PCs quickly and didn't retain a sustained retro community like European guys did. the "upgrade to the newest and latest" mentality has always been pretty strong with PC gamers in the US.

[Anonymous No.7842135]

>>7842097
That article says, that about 1/6 of all c64 were sold in America.
So, is the "5 mil sold in the US" number bogus after all?

[Anonymous No.7842139]

>>7842125
I wouldn't say "quickly", since non-PCs 16 and 32-bit computer were still popular (Apple, Atari, Amiga, etc), PC at home only started to take off after Doom.

>didn't retain a sustained retro community like European guys did.
The main C64 sales in Europe from the latter part of the C64 life come from Eastern Europe when the iron curtain fell and western market was open to them. The computers were cheap by then and fit well into a poor market like that.
Western Europe was more similar to US, just with added british microcomputers.

>"upgrade to the newest and latest"
That's how you sell things to people after all.

>>7842135
We just don't know, Commodores official numbers even contradict themselves. Also as mentioned, the major sales in the early life of the C64 came from the US and alter ones from Eastern Europe / ex-Soviet territory.

[Anonymous No.7842145]

Commodore were known to do things like count as sales computers that were returned for being defective, which was widespread in the early 1982-83 period when C64s had a lot of reliability issues especially involving the PLA.

[Anonymous No.7842148]

>>7842095
The Atari ST was more popular up to 1988 when the Amiga was still too expensive for most people.

[Anonymous No.7842154]

>>7842139
>Also as mentioned, the major sales in the early life of the C64 came from the US and alter ones from Eastern Europe / ex-Soviet territory
None of the sources,
neither https://vgsales.fandom.com/wiki/Third_generation_of_video_games#Western_Europe
nor https://www.pagetable.com/?p=547
corroborate this claim.
How did you get that idea? Where did you get it?

[Anonymous No.7842163]

>>7842125
The demo scene community had something to do with that. Americans really didn't have a demo scene and their games tended to just be dry simulation kinds of shit, so there wasn't good reason to continue making C64 stuff when you could just upgrade to PC which have more storage space and better graphics.

tl;dr there's no reason to continue making submarine simulator on C64 when PC offered better hardware for that

[Anonymous No.7842179]

>>7842154
Lots of friends from those zones who were alive turning that time and nights talking on forums about it.
You don't have to believe me though.

But looking at old US, Western European and Eastern European advertisements and computer magazines from the time you can follow easily what was sold where and how popular it was. That's a easy way to judge yourself if you want to look into it.

[Anonymous No.7842189]

>>7842179
So you claim something, and tell me to look it up?
Go and sit in the corner, IBM-PC ONLY anon.

[Anonymous No.7842197]

>>7842145
True

[Anonymous No.7842201]

>>7842145
i remeber Bil Herd mentioning that their main US assembly plant had a speed bump in the parking lot that delivery trucks would drive over when taking a shipment of C64s out and after this speed bump was removed, the failure/return rate of them dropped markedly.

[Anonymous No.7842206]

>>7842189
>When you shitpost so much people think everyone is you
PC = PC Compatible

[Anonymous No.7842207]

>>7842189
As I said, you don't have to believe me. But where do you think the late C64 sales came from then?
There's a lot we can't directly prove anymore, people have done extensive research into the Commodore sales topic already and didn't get very far. I don't what what I should discuss about if we can only talk about things we have random website crediting it as proof.

>Go and sit in the corner, IBM-PC ONLY anon.
I'm from the US.

>>7842201
I've heard that too. Quite the chuckle.

[Anonymous No.7842210]

>>7842207
>I'm from the US.
I'm NOT* from the US
Sorry for the confusion

[Anonymous No.7842213]

>>7842207
I'm the anon he's talking about and I'm from the US too.

[Anonymous No.7842215]

>>7842213
I'm not though.

[Anonymous No.7842228]

>>7838397
The sales of the NES in Europe are bullshit Nintendo always exaggerated them. SMS sold way better than the NES in Europe that is why it was support so long into the next generation and got so many unique games.

[Anonymous No.7842231]

>>7842228
Nintendo didn't really even sell in Europe properly until SNES.
It was already discussed in this thread.

[Anonymous No.7842232]

>>7842228
*So many Europe exclusive games.

[Anonymous No.7842236]

>>7838256
Americans for whatever reasons, keep clinging on consoles whatsover over computers. Here in Europe, computers are seen as a more logical choice

[Anonymous No.7842242]

Were arcades big in europe? Do they still exist?

I only ever hear about the arcade scene and death in america and how it's still going in Japan.

[Anonymous No.7842247]

>>7842236
In the U.S. desktops are generally seen as outdated and have long been replaced in most homes by laptops or simply tablets/phones. Gaming PCs have been rising in popularity again but consoles are still king.

[Anonymous No.7842249]

>>7842242
I remember arcades, I can't judge how popular they were here though, but we did have them and there were always people in them.
I know people in Germany and UK who say they were quite big there though.

>>7842247
Consoles were always king when it came to strictly gaming.

[Anonymous No.7842257]

>>7842139
>The main C64 sales in Europe from the latter part of the C64 life come from Eastern Europe when the iron curtain fell and western market was open to them. The computers were cheap by then and fit well into a poor market like that.
I grew up in Latvia in the early 90's and I can agree with that, we still had XT class PC's, Amstrad CPC's and C64's when relative in Sweden had 386's or ST's

[Anonymous No.7842262]

>>7842163
by end of 80s when PC have VGA graphics there was finally compelling reason to upgrade from 8-bit machine

[Anonymous No.7842263]

both are poorcoping in different ways

euros bought cheapo pcs and never want to (read: cant afford to) upgrade so they play eurojank games (which are all below average in terms of graphics and cpu/gpu demand both because they develop on shit pcs and sell to people with shit pcs) or old games like deus ex, quake, doom, etc

home consoles like pong and atari hit american homes before computers could, and gained appeal for not having to go to arcade to play (remember america is fuck huge and you have to drive far for anything, which is why arcades died quicker than japan, and why food portions/sizes are so big--the idea being to use it over a longer period of time so you dont have to drive back to the supermarket or whatever, but then its there in your house and they eat it all and it adds to the obesity problem). so the initial investment to jump into a good gaming pc has always been a barrier to entry when good-enough consoles exist for a much lower price of entry

[Anonymous No.7842268]

>>7842228
https://de.scribd.com/doc/208776076/Screen-Digest?secret_password=2ntzw5zfrtsy8kxequmg
Also the article in which the other anons sales are based on claims that within a year both of these consoles lost 2 MILLION of their user base.

[Anonymous No.7842275]

>>7842263
That’s especially true now that most people don’t need a desktop for their general computer needs when a laptop will do just fine. I’d imagine a pretty large portion of home desktop owners also use them as a gaming machine.

[Anonymous No.7842283]

>>7842263
>and why food portions/sizes are so big
actually no it's more like food has historically always been cheaper in the US than Europe. this was true as far back as colonial times.

[Anonymous No.7842286]

>>7842275
>most people don’t need a desktop for their general computer needs when a laptop will do just fine.
a lot of people dont even have laptops and just have smartphones nowadays

[Anonymous No.7842291]

>>7842283
can both facts not both be contributing factors? it stands to reason that cheaper food could just be a cheaper price on the same sized packages

[Anonymous No.7842297]

>>7842242
In the big holiday destination in north Italy(regions like Veneto) there are still sizeable arcades. Remember that during my Holidays in Caorle in 2016 I saw at least 3 or 4 different who all offered many light gun games(TimeSplitters 2, Deadstorm Pirates and Ghost Squad) as well as Many different Flipper machines.

[Anonymous No.7842303]

>>7842263
>euros bought cheapo pcs and never want to (read: cant afford to) upgrade so they play eurojank games (which are all below average in terms of graphics and cpu/gpu demand both because they develop on shit pcs and sell to people with shit pcs) or old games like deus ex, quake, doom, etc
If you actually think something like a Amiga was worse in hardware than a PC in the 80's, you're actually delusional
By the time Quake was a thing, there was pretty much no difference in the European and United States market in terms of computers

[Anonymous No.7842306]

>>7842303
Commodore 64*

[Anonymous No.7842314]

>>7842303
amiga, pc, commodore 64....what point are you trying to make?

i admit i have a habit of typing "pc" when I mean to say "computer" but i was making big generalizations and not comparing any specific computers

[Anonymous No.7842315]

What a lot of the other posters in this thread forget is all the many benefits a computer has over a console
>insanely huge library of all kinds of games from decades back to today
>highest graphics, showing the games at their absolute best
>cheapest while also being the best at everything avaible
>nothing can truly be locked out for the user (full control over everything)
>mods that can restore content for certain rushed or bugged games (e.g. Sith Lords mods for Kotor 2

>>7842247
>seeing either as a difference
That's you americans problem, everything is a brand, computers (at least with the introduction of Win 95) are a completely modular platform that can suit too anybodies need.

[Anonymous No.7842316]

>>7842297
Random Picture of the one I played Tim splitter,actually 3 not 2, in.

[Anonymous No.7842332]

>>7842263
Source please.

[Anonymous No.7842336]

>>7842315
>americans love brands like nintendo, microsoft, sony, etc
>not like us europeons and our pc parts made by nvidia, intel, amd, asus, gigabyte, noctua, etc

[Anonymous No.7842339]

>>7842332
do you happen to have a metal pipe sticking through your cranium?

[Anonymous No.7842343]

>>7842314
If you're comparing computers vs console in general, then there were a lot of computers that were as or more capable without any upgrades than a console, at least majority of the 80's and even early 80's, while some were lagging behind.
I don't really see what the point is with "buy and never upgrade" argument then
If you compare the mid/late 90's when things like Quake were a thing, then there wasn't much difference, in Europe expansions for computers were actually even more common, specially for things like Amigas or upgrading old 386 boxes

[Anonymous No.7842351]

>>7842263
>>7842314
I'm really confused.

Eurojank games were usually leading in terms of graphics and sound, that's the only thing they were good at, compared to gameplay, where Nintendo, SEGA, etc were always in lead with consoles.
It's weird to see someone on /vr/ actually trying to state the opposite when decades of threads like this always say how Eurojank shovelware was always about being pretty and bad to play.

[Anonymous No.7842361]

>>7842343
im not comparng. im talking about more recently and giving the history of how thigns came to be

euros invested in the computer/pc platform way back when and just dont like to upgrade

nevermind. i wasnt precise and clear because i thought this was all common knowledge and im not going back to spell everything out.

[Anonymous No.7842409]

>>7842336
I just use whatever I need/want

>>7842351
>>7838306
>>7842263
Why don't you americans just use computers (with your own games)?

[Anonymous No.7842443]

>>7842351
>when decades of threads like this always say
Oh boy, you took the /vr/ pill.
Don't believe everything so readily.
Of course, that includes this post and this thread.
TRUST NO ONE!

[Anonymous No.7842538]

>>7838845
Only a last gen console like the top loader NES or the redesigned SNES were sold for $100 new.

[Anonymous No.7842752]

>>7837942
So here is the thing:
Western Europe and the US weren't that far off each other during the 80s and 90s.
Population was comparable (1980: 220 mil for the US, 230 mil for England, France, Germany and Italy)
The amount of computers sold was similar (tho europe clearly liked commodore more).
But here come the differences:
While consoles sold about the same in Europe as did computers, Americans loved (still do?) consoles so much, it wasn't even a fight.
So it is NOT like the US hates computers or Europe can't into consoles - far from it.
America simply had/has a console problem (which, they assure me, they can quit at any time, thank you very much!)

[Anonymous No.7842773]

>>7842752
>(tho europe clearly liked commodore more)

not necessarily everywhere. Commodore didn't factor for much in Spain and France, those were Amstrad, Atari, or Spectrum territory.

[Anonymous No.7842785]

the big diff was in types of games. Americans make mostly sit-down strategy kinds of computer game like Ultima while Europeans make arcade shit. that was partially due to the language barrier. you couldn't for example make a German RPG since the only places to sell it in were FRG, Austria, and part of Switzerland. arcade games weren't language-dependent and could be sold anywhere.

[Anonymous No.7842791]

Euros are generally poor retards, no wonder they would prefer the inferior games.

[Anonymous No.7842794]

>>7842773
Regional difference were wild.
Like, England and France bought about the same amount of NES and Sega Master Systems, germany was like: fuck sega, gimme that nintendo.
At the same time while England and Germany like the Amiga just about the same, France was like: get outta here with this shit.
What the hell, France! I thought we were buddies!

[Anonymous No.7842808]

>>7842785
>you couldn't for example make a German RPG
But they did.
They made several.
They even made a german fire emblem clone.

[Anonymous No.7842814]

generally speaking, Spain was Spectrum, MSX, and Amstrad territory. France was Atari and Amstrad territory. The Germanic countries (FRG, Netherlands, and Scandinavia) were virtually a Commodore monopoly. Do also note that the Atari ST had a solid lock on the corporate/office market in FRG but nobody had them as a home computer.

[Anonymous No.7842821]

>>7842808
To be fair that was more true of 8-bit machines. By the time of the Amiga and PC compatibles it was possible to include language packs for different markets.

[Anonymous No.7842843]

>>7842315
Of course there’s a difference. Desktop gaming computers are primarily marketed to the enthusiast market whereas consoles have mass consumer adoption here. It can’t possibly be that different over in Europe. There’s no way in hell you’re going to find more desktop gaming rigs than PlayStations in the average euro household.

[Anonymous No.7843024]

>>7837942
Pollack here. I've had a PC since 1997, Never owned a console, except getting an Amiga CD32 as a present. I never even opened its packaging, and still have it in my storage.

[Anonymous No.7843115]

>>7842821
>To be fair that was more true of 8-bit machines
Aww, come on! You're just trying to weasel away.
Those little boxes you want to put Americans and Europeans into? They don't exist.

[Anonymous No.7843124]

>>7843115
>Those little boxes you want to put Americans and Europeans into? They don't exist.
Of course they exist, there's huge cultural and marketing/financial differences inside Europe alone, yet alone between Europeans and Americans, especially in the past.
Anyone thinking otherwise never traveled around.

[Anonymous No.7843157]

>>7843124
Absolutely and I’m from the U.S. It’s just common sense that game devs in the retro game publishers would treat European countries differently simply based on all the different language translation requirements alone. North America is a vastly easier market to localize for.

[Anonymous No.7843170]

>>7843157
Sorry: It just makes sense that retro game publishers*

[Anonymous No.7843221]

>>7843157
Hence why NA was usually English, Spanish and French while EU was English, Spanish, French and German.

[Anonymous No.7843240]

>>7843221
Exactly. It’s really no mystery as to why Slavic countries are a big PC territory.

[Anonymous No.7843249]

>>7843124
There you go again, deflect and push your "people are different" story. That's not video games.
>the big diff was in types of games. Americans make mostly sit-down strategy kinds of computer game like Ultima while Europeans make arcade shit
is not true, no matter what you say.

[Anonymous No.7843259]

>>7843249
There have been several posts explaining why you’re wrong. Cultural differences were absolutely at play, especially during the wild west days of video games in the 80s.

[Anonymous No.7843264]

stereotypes are bad, folks.

[Anonymous No.7843414]

>>7841619
Even living during that time, it was weird. My elementary school still had C64s the classroom but everyone had moved over to Windows 3.1 and nobody remembered how to use them; they were like artifacts from an extinct civilization.

[Anonymous No.7843435]

>>7843259
It's hard to explain it to people who are too young to remember or lived turning that time.

[Anonymous No.7843498]

>>7842139
Hungary was the first communist bloc country to open their doors to Western computers when they granted Commodore permission to sell there in 1985. other countries had to wait until 1990. it's also worth noting Jack Tramiel always valued Europe as a market since it was his place of birth.

[Anonymous No.7843570]

>>7843498
I recently saw a picture of a Amiga user gathering in Estonia from summer of 1989. You could even see the poster on the door of the even.

[Anonymous No.7843605]

>there's people on /vr/ that actually don't know what PC means
Welp, this thread

[Anonymous No.7843659]

>>7838840
id
maxis
electronic arts
sierra
3D realms
westwood
ensemble
blizzard
i could go on
>>7837942
im curious if anyone knows: what's that steam client? is that actually running windows 95 with a hacked steam client or a sleeper rig running modern windows?

[Anonymous No.7843710]

>>7838374
Sure.

[Anonymous No.7844208]

>>7842351
What is the name of the game?

[Anonymous No.7844226]

>>7837942
No. Wrong. Why did this bait thread get so much traction?

[Anonymous No.7844404]

>>7838750
Was done. No cinematics tho.

[Anonymous No.7844408]

>>7838854
>Russian
Strangely, no mention of CS or Heroes 3 in your post. Nice.

[Anonymous No.7844425]

>>7838367
Do you have problems running English DOS games with this setup? Any DOS game I try just locks up with JPN Windows

[Anonymous No.7844448]

>>7844226
I think it’s pretty accurate. A lot of European countries got basically ignored by Nintendo and Sega back then.

[Anonymous No.7844773]

>>7842242
>>7842249
Arcade in germany was basically killed in the 80s by new laws to protect the youth from "horror videos" and "violent videogames". You know we are a country, where the Porky Pig show was discontinued in TV in the 70s, because its "too violent" and shows like Captain Future lead to protests (Despite being a cult classic with this generation today). But still we had a lot of arcade stuff here, but it was adult only if you wanted to go a arcade. Sometimes you could find games on bowling alleys, amusement parks or in game shops. I've played plenty arcade games in the 90s here, but it was in the shadows. In UK or Italy is was much bigger than in Germany, especially Italy was crazy from my perspective where you could find cabs basically everywhere, I remember playing Metal Slug 2 next to a wall at the beach. It was just standing there outside. When I've visited the states in the 90s I had the feeling it was not as big as in the UK or Italy, but I could be wrong of course.

[Anonymous No.7844968]

>>7839193
I know it is. It shouldn't be.

[Anonymous No.7845001]

>>7844226
Two things, I guess.
The need to spread a certain narrative and to control the conversation on one side,
and the need to search for truth on the other.
Whatever the fuck you can achieve on 4chan, of all places.

[Anonymous No.7845006]

>>7844773
In Italy it was a total craze of arcade cabs in every bar (where kids could stay without any problem). Arcade culture died here when the Playstation became cheap, it was a bless and a terrible curse. Nearly every bar had one cab of a SEGA\CAPCOM\SNK game. In Rome, where i lived when i was a kid, there were bars with even 5 cabs. Just paradise. We were lucky, and we suffer from nostalgia of that time the most in europe i presume.

Btw did you go on Riviera Romagnola when you were a kid? Rimini, Riccione were the centre of videogames cabs in that time!

[Anonymous No.7845030]

>>7845006
Italy was great. I've visited Reggio di Calabria, and Rimini. I think I've played most Neo Geo in Italy but also many Data East and Capcom games. I think I've never saw as much machines as in Italy or Japan. UK comes close, though.

In Germany you could enter Bars as a kid, too. Sometimes you could play pinball and videogames, too. Bars were also a place, where the family went to eat a meal or just hang out and drink. We were baffled and could not understand when I could not enter a bar in the USA because I wasn't 21 back then.

[Anonymous No.7845060]

>>7845030
Oh Man, Reggio Calabria, one of the most beatiful place in Calabria. You were very lucky, not only you saw north italy, but also south. So mesmerizing, Also Sicilia and Sardegna are exceptionally wild and beatiful places.

I think pretty much every bar in Emilia Romagna (where i live now) got at the time at least a Metal Slug cab, it was so famous in Italy!

Americans just can't understand how much more japanese culture hit our youth in Europe, damn, here in Italy we got on NATIONAL TELEVISION The Secret of Blue Water (nadia e il mistero della pietra azzurra) just a few month after the japanese run on tv.

[Anonymous No.7845070]

>>7845060
Italy was a mecca for me as a young fan of japanese culture and games. So much stuff was available and common. I still got italian Dragonball GT and Nadia tapes. We also had Tele 5 in Germany and many stuff aired here as well. By the way, when I think of Metal Slug I really think of it as a japanese game with super european (italian) "flavour".

[Anonymous No.7845167]

>>7844226
Were you even alive turning the 80's?

[Anonymous No.7845204]

>>7845070
Metal Slug had a total mediterrean look and feel, i guess also a lot of games when they had to give that energetic sea and blue sky feel used italian landscapes as inspiration. I mean Porco Rosso exist pretty much as a love letter from japan to italy.

[Anonymous No.7845467]

>>7843710
This post would not make sense if I was born in 1999. How would I play all these games at 1-3 years of age?

[Anonymous No.7845480]

>>7838474
>and as far as I know
>almost nowhere else
>ran 10 frames slower
>by the time computers became remotely decent for video gaming
>most computer games were outright shit
>not something for the average working class
t. amerimutt

[Anonymous No.7845482]

>>7841384
>but in America it seems the Apple II and IBM compatibles were what almost everyone used
Yes on the IBM, no on the Apple II.
Apple IIs were mostly just in schools. Apple had huge contracts with school districts in the 80s and made the Apple II common in basically every school up till the mid 90s. Beyond that, the C64 was the most common non-IBM computer you'd find in a home with the Apple II being a distant 3rd, and everything else basically being non-existent in practical terms.

[Anonymous No.7845487]

>>7838753
>PCucks were playing Ultima 3-5 with no music. Plays better on every other system they were released on. Even Sega Master System got a better Ultima 4 than PC.
Anon is lying again

[Anonymous No.7845490]

>>7838759
>Console gaming in the 80s was mostly janky ports of games from arcades that were more suited to gaming.

[Anonymous No.7845498]

>>7845482
IBMs were mostly in offices too.
In homes they shared equal and often even less market share compared to others like Commodore or Atari computers.

[Anonymous No.7845501]

>>7838849
>Console games were superior to PC games in some genres until 1990.

[Anonymous No.7845502]

>>7838873
>Tekken, Gran Turismo, Mario 64, etc. that defined the back half of the 90s.
For consoles

[Anonymous No.7845505]

>>7845487
Sound cards only became a thing in the late 80's and most people didn't have one until the 90's.
If you consider PC speaker music, then sure.

>>7845501
I'd say consoles lost the lead in hardware between PS1 and PS2.
When PS1 launched, it took like 12 months for a equally fast PC 3D accelerator to come to the market.
By the time the PS2 launched, we already had better 3D accelerators in PCs.

[Anonymous No.7845514]

>>7839684
>but nobody had one.

[Anonymous No.7845519]

>>7845060
other euro here, when you just look at how many co-productions of anime in the 80s of european stuff there was it sometimes amazes me

[Anonymous No.7845545]

>>7842049
>The C64 seems to only have really existed in Europe.
4 U

[Anonymous No.7845553]

>>7842139
>PC at home only started to take off after Doom
No

[Anonymous No.7845557]

>>7845514
>>7845545
That's the thing. Some people here seems to talk about what they have heard from others and just have a wide view of the world of the time.
Others just say "Nobody had one" just because they personally didn't see any or had one. Doesn't matter if it's a mutt or a yurotard.

[Anonymous No.7845563]

>>7845553
Early 90's I'd say, until then you'd see many different times of computers and not just x86 PCs.
Also the time when things like VGA and sound cards became common and cheaper.

[Anonymous No.7845567]

>>7842247
>but consoles are still king.
Last time consoles were King are the 70s

[Anonymous No.7845572]

>>7845567
The only king they are is in numbers, not hardware
Compared to games sold on console vs computer
There's still more computers in the world in general

[Anonymous No.7845597]

>>7845505
>If you consider PC speaker music, then sure.
It agrees
>I'd say consoles lost the lead in hardware between PS1 and PS2.
And you would be wrong.

[Anonymous No.7845605]

>>7845557
>Some people
>Others just say
And the rest is trolling

[Anonymous No.7845896]

>>7845597
>And you would be wrong.
Prove me wrong.

I'm simply comparing the GPU performance of consoles VS when said console came out to AGP/PCI 3D accelerators (GPU) and when they came out and their performance.
Since I said "hardware" and not gameplay, comparing 3D capability is directly related how graphically impressive game you can make on one or the other.