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/vr/ - Retro Games


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7794818 No.7794818 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

Can you really say that the wobbly PS1 textures were how the developers intended? They clearly wanted this brick wall to be straight.

>> No.7794825 [DELETED] 

If it was on the PS1 it was clearly intended you dumbass baldy

>> No.7794830

I think if you use a really shitty cable like composite, the wobble goes away like a waterfall.

>> No.7794831

>>7794818
The developers also didn't want you to play their games on an emulator, but on the real hardware and after paying for their game. So knowing that, why the fuck are you pretending you care about what the developers intended?

>> No.7794834

>>7794825
Accepting a hardware flaw doesn't mean its intended, otherwise N64/Saturn versions of PS1 games would have the same wobbly textures, though I don't expect a peabrain like you to understand simple logic.

>> No.7794839

I’m sure they wanted it to be straight, but it wasn’t/couldn’t. So yes, the wobbly textures were intended. You are comparing an emulator with enhancements to the original system.

>> No.7794845

I think it is part of the look of the PS1, just like dithering.

>> No.7794867

>>7794831
*publishers

>> No.7794873

>>7794867
In some cases, the dev and publishers were the same.

>> No.7794891

>>7794818
I could see devs for a horror or surreal game thinking the wobble made it better.

>> No.7794903

>>7794873
In many cases they weren't and ended pretty much the worst enemies.

>> No.7794921

>>7794891
I don't know about wobbling, but Silent Hill's low FPS is kind of part of the experience.

It had composite in mind, just look at the dithering. The blur and low resolution is part of the design. Not that it was intentional, but SH was built around the PS1 limitations.

Playing SH with crispy high resolution and 32bit color simply doesn't have the same effect as playing it on a 240p CRT.

>> No.7794930

>>7794903
In most cases they got on just fine, publishers handled logistics and localization, distribution, etc. Often times they acted as the grounds in which developers got access to new technology at all. These rare situations where a publisher burns a dev are very unlikely and always have been.

>> No.7794937

>>7794839
>the wobbly textures were intended
Well, no, the intent was straight bricks, but wobbly bricks had to be accepted due to hardware limitations. If they could somehow add a a magical piece of code which removed that, every single dev working with the Playstation (except for the retarded ones) would have used it.

>>7794845
Dithering is a deliberate approach to work with palette limitations, you don't get sprites and textures coming out dithered after you put them in your game, you have to design them that way.

>> No.7794946 [DELETED] 

>>7794825
You don't actually believe that, you just want an excuse to be hostile.

Cancer killing this board.

>> No.7794956 [DELETED] 
File: 49 KB, 198x208, sigh.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7794956

>>7794946
Watcha gonna do about it, bitch?

>> No.7794960

>>7794818
did the ps1 have a justifiable reason for this or was it Japanese corporate incompetence?

>> No.7795035

>>7794960
Japanese console has honorable Samurai spirit. Wobble represents inconstance of life and the four elements, fire, water, wind and earth.

>> No.7795041

>>7794818
The z-buffer-less scaling and dithering were innate to the PS1 hardware, not the games.
And they were GOOD things.

>> No.7795213

>>7794818
Most developers didn't want it and minimized as much as they could.

>> No.7795227

don't care, is part of the charm of ps1 games

>> No.7795239

>>7794818
1) Who cares what the developers intended?

2) You can't know what they intended without a quote of them explaining their intentions.

>> No.7795276

>>7794818
It doesn’t matter. Just enjoy the games.

>> No.7795540

>>7794818
Of course. They certainly didn't intend for their games to be run on emulators by poor children who didn't pay pay for them.

>> No.7795548

We get you OP, you don't like retro games, so you use emulators to make them look completely different so you may enjoy. Cheers!

>> No.7795563
File: 230 KB, 1064x870, Victor_Mottez_zeuxis.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7795563

I'm sure this artist meant for us to see this statue clearly, but they just weren't... able to paint it. So i'm going to find this painting and enable high detail features on the statue myself. I think people will be happy!

>> No.7795829

saturn didn't have the wobble iirc. so you can pretend you're playing tr2 on saturn

>> No.7795841

>>7794818
Hurrr

>> No.7795863

>>7794818
But, the angle isn't comparable?

>> No.7795927

>>7794818
Developer intention is a fucking meme. I play how I want.

>> No.7795936

>>7794960
Fixed point rendering. That's it.

>> No.7795939

>>7794818
It's called affine texture-warping. It's because the PS1 was a hunk of shit that couldn't properly map textures. The reason N64 games look so much better in this regard is because it can actually fully map textures to polygons.

>> No.7795946

They should just rename this board to emufag cope

>> No.7795990

>>7795946
you will never be a woman.

>> No.7795995

>>7794818
kinda wish it was still 2005 and ps1 emulation was finnicky and required high-end computers so we wouldn't have autistic threads like this every week. some of you don't deserve to play these games for free

>> No.7796002

>>7795946
>emufag cope
>when it's the hardware cucks and buypigs who chase the "intended dev's vision" like drug addicts

>> No.7796003

>>7795939

It's 1994 tech, meaning they would have to do it the "right way" by adding 50-100 dollars per console or waiting 1-2 years. Sony was doing the best they could with the hardware of the time and reasoned this was a small issue people would not notice.

>> No.7796009

>>7796002
I mean.

Yes? When you enjoy works of art, you're supposed to respect the developer's intended vision.

Do you modify the Mona Lisa by pissing on it? Because that's what you emufags do.

The only way to play the PS1 is on actual hardware, through composite output. As the developer's intended.

>> No.7796023
File: 118 KB, 558x640, 1616666198620.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7796023

>>7796009
>Do you modify the Mona Lisa by pissing on it?
Yes and I'll piss on your precious games too while I play them at enhanced resolution with papercraft like models and crisp clean textures (I'll keep warping though because it's based).

>> No.7796030

>>7796023
That's so sad honestly. That you have no respect for good art.

Each game represents hours upon hours of blood, sweat, and tears the developers poured into their craft. And faggots like you shit all over that.

People like you are why gaming isn't good anymore.

But that's okay. I'll take solace in that I'm respecting the developer's intentions.

Glorious CRT luminence. Nostalgic composite output. Zero input lag.

While you? You're having to rely on savestates to beat Tomb Raider, twiddling your pindick with your cheeto-dusted fingers to her triangular boobs.

You know, if you played the games as intended, those boobs would look a lot more round. I'm sure there's a filter to replicate that.

>> No.7796035

>>7796009
da Vinci didn't intend for the Mona Lisa to be hung in the Louvre, therefore no one should look at it in the Louvre.

>> No.7796045

>>7796003
Yeah I never argued that they weren't doing the best that they could. The n64 was based on expensive silicon-graphics technology. I personally don't mind the warping at all, I grew up with a ps1 and n64 and they're both great. The ps1 blew it away with being actually able to store a game larger than 64mb.

>> No.7796053

>>7796030
god shut up

>> No.7796061

>>7796035
>devs game at a dev studio
>"They never intended for it to be played at YOUR house!"
retard

>> No.7796087

>>7796061
>Paints painting in Italy
>Literally writes in his will that it is to go to his apprentice
>"He intended the painting to be illuminated by electric lights and viewed hundreds of years later by people from all over the world in Paris!"

>> No.7796257 [DELETED] 

>>7796035
>>7796053
Make me.

>>7796087
Yes, he wanted it to go to his apprentice. That should've happened.

But you know. Life doesn't always play out that way. Sometimes shit happens, and the artist's intentions are ignored.

It's too late to turn back the clock and respect Da Vinci's wishes. But it's not too late to stop what you're doing and play these games the way they're meant to be played.

You can stop what you're doing right now, and go out and buy a PSX and a TV (not a stupid PVMeme) for dirt cheap.

But you won't.

Because you are entitled. You think you deserve the entire world for free. Because that's how mommy raised you. One day you'll learn. That nothing in this world truly comes for free.

And no Retroarch shader in the world can prepare you for that lesson.

>> No.7796326

>>7794818
>"Retroarch"
This is meaningless, RA doesn't do that by default and RA is not even the emulator.

>> No.7796341

>>7795563
>statue
my stupid ass thought it was a lady lmao

>> No.7796343

>>7794937
>Dithering is a deliberate approach to work with palette limitations, you don't get sprites and textures coming out dithered after you put them in your game, you have to design them that way.
You'd think this would be the case, but it actually isn't the case, and it's kind of neat. The textures are stored with 32 bit color, but the way the system uses them force-dithers them to 16-bit color and most devs did not bother to pre-dither those textures since it would save no time to do so (the console will do what it will do, whether you did it already or not). You can then see this in emulation by forcing 32 bit color textures in an emulator. Generally I don't think it looks better, they wind up more vibrant (probably due to the dithering method) than normal and definitely less gritty-looking, which is a different look than a PSX game.

>> No.7796346

>>7796257
chill with the line breaks senpai

>> No.7796356
File: 152 KB, 564x1166, 5th gen texture mapping.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7796356

>>7795939
>It's because the PS1 was a hunk of shit that couldn't properly map textures. The reason N64 games look so much better in this regard is because it can actually fully map textures to polygons.
It's because the PSX didn't have an FPU (the N64 was the first major console with one) to rapidly do division math. I think it's still dishonest to say that N64 games "look so much better" at textures though, they were way lower-res and blurred a lot in an unusual 3-point filter. There's a give and take between "defined detail, incorrect perspective" and "muddy-looking, correct perspective".

>> No.7796471

>>7796257
lmao my man unironically thinks the world shouldn't be able to be the Mona Lisa because it violates the "artist's intention"

My god, you are such a goddamn loser

>> No.7796503

>>7796341
hey maybe it is. i'm sure some upping-resolution fan anons will one day scrape that annoying veil off so we can find out

>> No.7796531

The "PS1 aesthetic" is pure shit. I rather take 2010's fixation with "8-bit" over this.

>> No.7796540

>>7796356
>The PS1 didn't do texture correction because it didn't have an FPU
Perspective correct texturing can still be done well enough without using an FPU. For example: the N64's display processor uses fixed point exclusively.

>The n64's textures were blurred a lot in an unusual 3-point filter
It doesn't degrade the textures as much as you seem to think. Try toggling it in an emulator. It's hard to spot the difference in a typical scenario.

>> No.7796601

>>7796030
i hope for your sake that this is just pasta

>> No.7796639

>>7796257
>psX
Fuck off

>> No.7796663

>>7796531
PS1 aesthetic is dogshit for 3D but badass for 2D boy

>> No.7796715

>>7794921
>240p CRT
I'm going to stab you with a spoon.

>> No.7796729 [DELETED] 

>>7796009
>>7796030
>>7796257

You will never be white,

>> No.7796739 [DELETED] 

>>7794818
No but for authenticity and accuracy to the original system (things that may be vital for research, and in some cases may aid in aesthetic, such as the entirity of Silent Hill.)
I personally am 50/50 whether I leave them on. Some games like Tenchu are fucking awful to look at with the wobbly textures but Ape Escape looks fine with them. It's all preference anyways.

>> No.7796740

>>7796257
Aquire sexual intercourse.

>> No.7796743

>>7796540
>Perspective correct texturing can still be done well enough without using an FPU
Early PS1 games didn't really bother with compensating for this as aggressively. They didn't have as many ways to manage their resources. By the time developers started actively compensating for it thanks to new tools from Sony it basically stopped factoring into how PS1 games look and they honed in on the clean and sharp look.

Personally I don't give a shit about texture warping.

>> No.7796761

I'm honestly curious about the ages of people who get autistic about "curing" the ps1 warping. Like "look at how graphics render on dad's old video game system" when it was basically a non-issue for those who grew up with it. Hell the ps2 even fixed it optionally, but we all had that crap turned off.

>> No.7796804

>>7796761
it was horrible back then, especially for those who knew the saturn. i don't remember any of this on that console. sega rally is very stable compared to v-rally

>> No.7796848

Some of the early 3d consoles felt like they were trying to sell 3d way before it was viable. Theres only a handful of titles that made use of the consoles appropriately. Like some 2.5d side scrollers and some pre rendered backdrop games maybe.

>> No.7796908

>>7794818
The developers intended you to play on real hardware, so what emulators do is moot.

>> No.7796938

>>7794921
retard reddit parrot to the max here, wow

>> No.7796958

Tomb Raider was always meant to be played on PC.

>> No.7796969

>>7796739
Hey mods why did this post get deleted? What was the "catchphrase" I used?

>> No.7797009

>>7796969
Looks like that post was right below a /v/-tier shitpost, and it somehow got caught in the crossfire.
Yeah, that happens quite frequently. Go figure.

>> No.7797028

>>7796471
>A person's will should be fulfilled
Yes? Are you calling someone a loser for agreeing with this?

>> No.7797042

>>7794818
Developers didn't have a choice, and many tried to 'hide' it by subdividing polygons near to the camera to minimize texture warping.

>> No.7797237

>>7795548
Doesn't make sense. PS1 isn't the only platform TR came out on. If you look at the pc version you'll see that there's no wobbling thefore it's just a ps1 limitation and unintented. Definitely no soul here.

>> No.7797256

>>7796761
I had no issue with 640x480 or VGA cameras on my phone. I didn't mind a bit of "snow" when watching a film on my TV either. Lots of things that were non-issue for me back then wouldn't fly today.
Hell, now that I think about it, I must have finished AvP2 with 10~15fps.

>> No.7797258

>>7796804
I both grew up back then and knew the Saturn.
If you'd have given me an argument like "knew PC gaming", your argument would have some merit, but come the fuck on.

If Saturn owners were that bothered by Playstation's texture warping, it's because they were sour grapes that their machine didn't have all the other graphical effects like transparencies and higher resolution textures.
Yea, Sega Rally looked great, but it was the exception. Now compare PS1 and Saturn's version of Crypt Killer and tell me which one looks better.

>> No.7797272
File: 747 KB, 2560x960, ridge racer.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7797272

The impact of texture warping differs a lot depending on what textures you're using. Something that is supposed to resemble a rectangle like the bricks in OP or the floorboards in Tenchu will look very distorted because you're expecting to see straight lines and right angles. Using different art can make the warping less noticeable.
Sometimes the warping can be even used positively. Combined with the aliasing, it makes the crowd in this image of Ridge Racer look like it has much more depth.

>> No.7797276

>>7797272
holy shit, that's a pretty creative example

>> No.7797278
File: 33 KB, 750x565, 1621344650771.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7797278

>>7796030
>leddit spacing
Seriously, just stay there. We won't miss you.

>> No.7797380

>>7794960
>did the ps1 have a justifiable reason for this or was it Japanese corporate incompetence?
It was significantly faster to do it that way. As opposed to the more powerful N64 which actually had something like a Z-Buffer. It's a miracle that those 1st gen 3D consoles were even powerful enough as they were at the time.

>> No.7797382

>>7797380
The z-buffer has nothing to do with texture warping retard.

>> No.7797392 [DELETED] 

>>7794946
This. This board already had its fair share of trolls but that fucking rule change made it 10 times worse by making /v/ kiddies like >>7794956 feel welcome here.

>> No.7797396

>>7797382
The texture warping specifically has got to do with lack of perspective correction and floating point precision, but what I was trying to get across was that the N64 leapfrogged over these problems because it took a slightly more conventional (at the time) approach to real time 3d computer graphics. It didn't have painter's algorithm problems like PS1 did as well, which also accentuated the bad texture warping by having warping textures overlay on top of each other.

>> No.7797406

>>7797278
no opinion on the content of his post, but nobody on reddit types like that

>> No.7797416
File: 26 KB, 311x311, you-must-be-new-here.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7797416

>>7797406

>> No.7797419

>>7797382
>retard
Sometimes I really hate being stuck on this site. Now that he explained himself better >>7797396, is he still a retard? Could you have just asked him what he meant by that instead of assuming he was an idiot?

>> No.7797424

>>7794818
Wobbly ps1 textures are soul.

>> No.7797496

>>7797272
This shit's incredible.
Honestly I don't get why so many are baffled by the anons that want that wall to stay wobbly.
I'm not saying that people should't investigate ways to tweak old games, I'm all for it, but I thougth it was the belif of the majority here that playing an old game came also with varying degrees of understanding its context, because like any other creative work videogames are a product of their time.
Was it the conscious intention of the game devs to make a straight wall wobble? No, clearly.
Was it the conscious intentionof the engineers to design that specific machine that at that time they belived was the best way to give enough tools to the developers and still make a profit? Yes, and I don't see why it should be a decision less respectable than "the wall should be straight", because I'm happy that ps1 games don't look like the ones the saturn or n64
Again, play your game in whatever way it pleases you, but at what point you can change the aesthetic of it and not be the same game?

>> No.7797541

>>7794818
For PS1 exclusives yes
For multiplats such as Tomb Raider, nope

>> No.7797774
File: 94 KB, 680x847, 1620403286441.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7797774

>>7797406
You know what, I actually like how the original ps1 slightly messed up the graphics and I also think that these classic games when played on a CRT from the late 90's is the way to play them. But I also think you don't belong on this website and should go back to the onions factory you came from.

>> No.7798041

>>7796715
240p on a 480i CRT

Easy on the tism, sperg.

>>7796938
You know Im right, dumb redditor. Now go jerk off to PVMemes and RGB mods elsewhere.

>> No.7798061

>>7794818
>wobbly PS1 textures
Eye cancer, we gave up gorgeous 2D for this trash. People suddenly turned completely blind and insane back then.

>> No.7798079

>>7798061
Shove your godawful pixelshit up your ass.

>> No.7798092

>>7794818

I always feel bad for poor Sonyfags. for 20 years they've been trying to pretend that this is on the same level

>> No.7798134
File: 105 KB, 800x598, François-André_Vincent_-_Zeuxis_Choosing_his_Models_for_the_Image_of_Helen_from_among_the_Girls_of_Croton.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7798134

>>7796503
Don't worry there's no need, it's a story depicted in other paintings.
>As the story goes, according to Cicero,[2] Zeuxis could not find a woman beautiful enough to pose as Helen, the most beautiful woman in the world, so he selected the finest features of five different models of the city of Croton to create a composite image of ideal beauty.[3]
He was creating the ultimate 2D wifu, even the ancient greeks knew 3DPD.

>> No.7798183
File: 55 KB, 942x349, hamco.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7798183

>>7797272
>Sometimes the warping can be even used positively. Combined with the aliasing, it makes the crowd in this image of Ridge Racer look like it has much more depth.
Yeah, it does look better. But on the other hand: hamco

>> No.7798259
File: 77 KB, 750x1000, dd89c6fce7d044e40417d3af3bf0b6db.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7798259

>>7794818
>Can you really say that the wobbly PS1 textures were how the developers intended?


They re;leased the Windows 95 version of Tomb Raider 2 on the same day as the PS1 version. The Tomb Raider games were very popular and big sellers on the IBM-PC. Tomb Raider 2 mainly supported Direct 3D acceleration. And even used some form of software perspective correction.

>> No.7798268

>>7796639
>>psX
>Fuck off


It was the official code name for the console. Game Magazines used PSx all the time, back before there was a PS2.

>> No.7798293
File: 21 KB, 320x200, nascar racing.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7798293

>>7794818
when ps1 launched the best looking pc game was nascar racing, the ps1 blew that away with super high frame rates and 16 bit colour so texture warping was more than acceptable.

Pc games had warping but as hardware got faster they reduced it but at the cost of much higher system requirements. Even dungeon keeper and other games from 1997 have a fair bit of warping on low settings and only 256 colours.

Some games have the textures pre warped so that warping them fixes them.

>>7798259
You can turn on and off warping in tomb 1 on pc pressing the F keys.

>> No.7798319

>>7798293
>Some games have the textures pre warped so that warping them fixes them.
That's not how it works, the warping changes depending on the camera angle.

>> No.7798438

>>7798293
Ya I remember having to play Mechwarrior without textures because it needed some new feature in a graphics card that cost loads.

>> No.7798471

>>7798183
looks like shit at high res.

>> No.7799398

why does it even matter? i play ps1 games on my ps2 and i never notice this shit.

>> No.7799815

>>7798293
Anon, Nascar Racing WAS the second best good looking 3d game, the best one for its time was US Navy Fighters and The Cream of the crop that it was Strike Commander and Wing Commander III
because EA and Microprose didn't fucked around

>> No.7799821

>>7797272
what are you comparing? stock vs high res? or perhaps a cel shader?

>> No.7799825

>>7794845
the dithering in ps1 looks excellent. its like a comic book print

>> No.7799827

>>7796343
Good post, based techie.

>> No.7799839

Can you really say that OP's homosexuality is how his parents intended? They clearly wanted their faggot son to be straight.

>> No.7799880

>>7796761
I'm 33 and prefer playing RE2 and RE3 with the custom ML upscale dolphin emulator. I have both games for PS1 and have no reason to play them ever again.

>> No.7799901

>>7794830
composite smooths things out but not THAT much. Do you see how warped that shit is?

>> No.7799925

>>7798293
>You can turn on and off warping in tomb 1 on pc pressing the F keys.

in software mode? I will have to try it with my real game disc. I thought it was a hardware feature through 3dfx, or virge or ATi. But yeahm Tomb raider 2 had a software perspective correction:

https://youtu.be/tSLH4dN1wb0?t=213

But this one does support D3D as well as glide? Tomb Raider III was released on PC when D3D was pretty well established.
https://youtu.be/tSLH4dN1wb0?t=213

>> No.7800386

>>7794921
No shit. Jesus christ.

>> No.7802423

>>7797028
Yes. Important works of art should be shared with the world.

>> No.7802432

>>7798293
PS1 couldn't even run Doom at 60fps, lol

>> No.7802439

>>7802432
This has been debunked.

>> No.7802442

>>7802439
>This has been debunked.

>> No.7802938

>>7802432
Given that doom runs at 35hz and would require serious reworking to run at 60hz, ps1 could not run doom at 60hz even if it were fast enough.

>> No.7802963

>110 posts
>The Saturn has been mentioned but nobody has brought up that Tomb Raider was developed first for the Saturn and ported to PSX

>> No.7803012

>>7794818
This is why you should just play Nintendo 64 instead

>> No.7803135

>>7802938
It's 30 with drops below.

>> No.7803659

>>7796356
you are correct PS1 textures contain more data than N64 textures. If you actually play n64 and ps1 on a good CRT you will see some 64 textures actually look more complex or have more detail than on ps1. The z buffer will allow certain things to become semi readable or viewable also vs. ps1 ports like say medium size text on a race car

>> No.7803704

>>7798183
Seems like a result of the resolution, not the texture warping.

>> No.7803708

>>7802963
I never get enough excuses to post this

>> No.7803714

>>7802963
So that's why it looks so shit.

>> No.7803983

>>7794818
Developers knew they were workin with SHIT hardware. So that's how the developers tought about the game.

>> No.7805794

>>7803659
The z buffer has nothing to do with textures. If you turned off the z buffer and sorted the polygons your self it would look exactly the same (ignoring intersecting polygons).

>> No.7807305

>>7794818
was anyone saying it was "intended"
its just how it worked

>> No.7807781

>>7797774
>>7796030
Tomb Raider was designed and launched with a perspective-correct PC version. You're not a more discerning retro enthusiast, you were just poor and cultivated a taste for our table scraps.
>>7798092
They cope so they don't rope.

>> No.7807790
File: 89 KB, 640x634, tomb_raider.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7807790

>>7807781
>perspective-correct PC version
nah man it came in that weird ass eidos trapezoid box so clearly the developers intended for warped geometry

>> No.7807851

>>7794930
You are confused. Rethink this and don't report back.

>> No.7807883

the developers intended for you to shut up and play the games

>> No.7808132

>>7807851
>le publishers bad redditisms

>> No.7808486
File: 903 KB, 300x200, 1344371214010.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7808486

>>7794830
>like a waterfall
I GEEET IT

>>
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