Underrated Strategy Gems

[Anonymous No.7710059]

Battle Realms is to this day one of the most complex strategy games ever made.

[Anonymous No.7710067]

>>7710059

[Anonymous No.7710096]

>>7710059
no

[Anonymous No.7710104]

i think i got it from a free giveaway on gog i didnt like it so much

[Anonymous No.7710126]

>>7710059
Its a great game, and I recommend getting the Zen Edition on Steam, they have been slowly fixing many of the bugs amd it has a functioning multiplayer mode.
About the game itself, the unique economy and population mechanics are great, and the fact that units can run and that their attack animations actually have variety and matter makes the combat more interesting and demanding than every other RTS out there.

[Anonymous No.7710246]

>>7710067
>>7710096
What's the problem?

>>7710104
Yeah I got it there for free too, but before that I also got it from a gaming magazine as a cover game.

>>7710126
>Its a great game, and I recommend getting the Zen Edition on Steam, they have been slowly fixing many of the bugs amd it has a functioning multiplayer mode.
That's great to hear, but until they balance Lotus (=nerf Dark Canopy and maybe Soul Chill), I ain't buying.

[Anonymous No.7710616]

>>7710246
It's a good game, but it's hardly one of the most complex strategy games of all time.

[Anonymous No.7710653]

>>7710616
It is one of the most complex REAL time strategy games of all time. Warcraft 3, Starcrafts, AoE, none can compete.

[Anonymous No.7711892]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q43ouaVN1p4

[Anonymous No.7712068]

>>7710059

S-tier
>Lotus clan

A-tier
>Serpent clan

B-tier
>Wolf clan

>D-tier
Dragon clan

[Anonymous No.7712072]

>gems
Dont you mean GAMES?

[Anonymous No.7712083]

>>7710059
how can gems be underrated
they're most valuable on the stock market

[Anonymous No.7712098]

>>7712083
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRzlZCk6c2c

[Anonymous No.7712114]

>>7711892
Wow you have a great voice honey :)

[Anonymous No.7712115]

>>7712098

[Anonymous No.7712118]

>>7712068
Lotus master race

[Anonymous No.7713693]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdsGWyWakTQ

[Anonymous No.7714897]

>>7711892
Why the fuck has no one else made a strategy game where you can build your custom units to this degree?

[Anonymous No.7714952]

>>7710653
lol? What? no. just no.

[Anonymous No.7715012]

>>7714952
Did you even play it?

[Anonymous No.7716793]

>>7713693
Only Russians know

[Anonymous No.7716835]

>tfw Rise of Legends had all the tools for the making of a great online RTS and then simply never took off

[Anonymous No.7716840]

I once played a Flash game (I think it was Flash?) that used the Captain Planet characters as units in a Final Fantasy Tactics-ish engine. It was pretty fun. Somebody find that game

[Anonymous No.7716887]

Few strategy games gave me a more serious case of the brainlets than picrel.

[Anonymous No.7716972]

>>7714897
Impossible creatures?

[Anonymous No.7716978]

>>7714897
Earth 2150. War Inc.

[Anonymous No.7717027]

>>7716835
ugly units
simple as

[Anonymous No.7717036]

>>7714897
Warzone 2100

[Anonymous No.7717063]

>>7714897
Impossible Creatures did. The reason it's uncommon is because it takes a lot of effort to design and balance. Both Metal Fatigue and Impossible Creatures are below average RTS without the unit creation gimmick.

[Anonymous No.7717749]

>>7716887
The concept is great but the execution is a bit lacking. In the campaign you are forced to go through all kinds of missions but in the scenarios you are normally merely expected to survive (i.e. essentially stall) until your ecospheres produce enough points.

[Anonymous No.7718879]

>>7717063
Wrong, Metal Fatigue had more going for it than just the unit creation.

You also had the three layers of combat (underground = vehicles only, surface = everyone, air = flying Combots [vulnerable] + jets/bombers only) and the unit creation wasn't just like "I design a unit and that's it" like in all other games, every part had meaning, you had to carefully balance weight vs power vs speed, you could use parts specifically designed to maximize the chance of cutting components, which is incredibly important in all matchups (especially Neuropa vs Mil-Agro, since they do energy/kinetic and are vulnerable to energy/kinetic but resistant to kinetic/energy respectively, so whoever cuts off the limbs of the other gets a huge adavantage).

The only thing Metal Fatigue needs is, in order of importance
1) improve AI
2) improve underground combat (should still be Combot free, but everyone should have at least access to parts that reveal underground) - vehicles should be faster, have better pathfinding, and there should be some balance to it, maybe rock/paper/scissors mode at least
3) rebalance some Combot parts
4) improve campaigns (more original tasks, less generic maps, balanced difficuly)
5) update graphics + fix the music (the tracks are fine already, just that Rimtech's never played)

Maybe with modern technology, you could also make part cutting more deterministic (i.e. an actual physics engine behind it), but that would be just a cherry on top. The unit creation in Metal Fatigue is already not a gimmick and it's an integral part of the gameplay.

[Anonymous No.7718887]

>>7718879
Big if true

[Anonymous No.7718893]

For me, it's Dune

[Anonymous No.7719971]

BattleZone II

[Anonymous No.7720171]

>>7718879
>You also had the three layers of combat (underground = vehicles only, surface = everyone, air = flying Combots [vulnerable] + jets/bombers only)
You can put vehicles and even regular combots on the floating islands, though. At the very least via the teleporters but I think it's possible to assemble things up there as well.

>2) improve underground combat
I share your pain. I'd solve it via new unit types and maybe also new underground-only structure types.

>Rimtech's never played
Huh? Do they have music of one of the other two factions playing instead?

[Anonymous No.7720205]

>>7720171
>Huh? Do they have music of one of the other two factions playing instead?
Yes, they use the same music as Mil-Agro. See >>7711892 if you want to hear the original.

[Anonymous No.7720339]

>>7710059
afaik "Polanie 2" was bretty good
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwPo25IaYWM&t=2s

[Anonymous No.7722504]

>>7720339
>Polish-no Two

[Anonymous No.7722579]

>>7722504
rather
>Fields no Two

[Anonymous No.7723362]

>>7710059
You must be a retard if you think BR ks complex. I really like the game, but it's the most standard, deathballing rts with very small extra ideas that change almost nothing (harvesting rice, taming horses and unit training, that's it, isn't it?). The litle details were also good, like birds flying above the trees to show sneaking armies or main hero that can change model and abilities from mission to mission.

[Anonymous No.7723836]

>>7723362
>that's it, isn't it
Every unit has unique resistances and weaknesses. This makes every unit relevant at every point of the game. A tier 1 (no mixed training) unit can beat a tier 3, or even one shot hero (Zen Master) units.

There are literally no "equivalent" units. Each is completely different from the rest. Even Geisha and Fan Geisha - completely different role/playstyle. Or crossbowen vs archers - a world of difference. The resistances + damage dealt + rate of attack + HP...

...and on top of that, every unit has a hidden passive ability (well, they were in the manual). Spearman - ignores height advantage, Archer - deals double damage with full stamina shots, Chemist - increases rate of healing, Dragon Warrior - morale boost to other allies when fighting, Kabuki Warrior - entertains peasants making them work faster, PK Cannoneer - units take half damage when he spreads salt when idle, Samurai - deals explosive? or magic damage on death... I'm actually amazed I remembered all this off the top of my head, for the most "vanilla" clan.

AND that's still not enough. Every Dragon/Serpent unit can train one of two activated abilities. Each completely unique and with massive differences and almost all of them are relevant. I.e. swordsman can get glass sword for massive one time damage or mugging to remove enemy BG (extremely important vs lotus in multiplayer). Wolf has to choose between an active ability for tactical usage or Shale Armor for a permanent and significant passive resistance bonus. And Lotus get OP powers from their three brothers (but also the hardest to get, since they depend on their non-regenerating stamina), each unit gets one except the (Master) Warlocks who both get three unique abilities to choose from. You would think that since they're so rare you would never use BG on T1 units but nope, Dark Canopy, Inner Strength, all great T1 BG.

The Yin Yang effect rewards players on the offensive, only vs computers turtling works.

I could go on

[Anonymous No.7723974]

>>7710059
Warrior Kings: Battles
Kingdom Under Fire (2001)

[Anonymous No.7724023]

Any other good retro turn-based tactics games besides X-COM, Silent Storm, Fallout Tactics and Jagged Alliance?

[Anonymous No.7724137]

>>7724023
Gorky 17
Warhammer 40,000: Chaos Gate

[Anonymous No.7724164]

>>7710059
Dark Reign: The Future of War

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbBSbp_RjXU

[Anonymous No.7724194]

>>7724137
Wow never heard of that Warhammer game

[Anonymous No.7724298]

>>7724164
Anon, pls. I'm already playing three RTS games in parallel.

[Anonymous No.7724340]

>>7723836
You are just listing specifics, that can be done with any other rts. How much of that stuff is actually important?

[Anonymous No.7724345]

>>7723974
How is KuF actually? Is it just a Warcraft rip-off or something more? Any unique and interesting mechanics? I played a very long time ago and am a fan of the Heroes/Crusader games.

[Anonymous No.7724490]

>>7724340
>just listing specifics
???

Using battle gear is ESSENTIAL in PvP. Depending on the faction, a player using battle gear right could easily roflstomp a player not using battle gear at all (as a handicap) who is way more experienced with the game otherwise. Examples
>Spearman (Dragon, T1), Whirling Spear
Turns a normally cheap/weak unit that deals piercing damage into a unit that can in a small group obliterate units weak against magic damage (AoE magic BG).
>Chemist (Dragon, T1), Starburst Rockets
Two of these guys can instantly destroy a fucking watch tower, stamina free, so you can literally just run them in, and tower goes bye bye.
>Guardian (Dragon, T1.5), both BG
Invincibility for a few seconds before death - extremely important against Lotus. Relevant because of how melee works in the game**.
>Kabuki Warrior (Dragon, T2), both BG
Again, Lotus matchups are unwinnable without this guy's BG.
>Samurai (Dragon, T3), Dragon Skin
Essential if you want to use them in multiplayer. hell even in singleplayer you will go crying wojak without this as you watch your T3s get buttfucked by abundant ranged explosive/magic damage from other clans.
>Swordsman (Serpent, T1), Mugging
As mentioned before, a must-master in multiplayer.
>Musketeer (Serpent, T1), both BG
Sniper rifles - swap damage type on the fly to universal piercing when not against explosive resistant units +range; or Blast Shot to rape buildings/set them on fire. The damage bread and butter of Serpent.
>Vetkin -> Taro -> Utara (Serpent ZMs)
Drain enemy stamina so they can't run away -> lower magic resistance -> huge magic AoE. A must know combo in multiplayer. Will wipe out entire armies if you don't know it's coming.

And finally
>Lotus Clan
>Staff Adept (T1, Dark Canopy) + Warlock (T3, Soul Chill) + Diseased One (T2, Death Wail) + Unclean One (T2, both BG)
The "Lotus Death Combo" that instantly filters any newbie. The Battle Gear makes it look unbeatable, and your BG usage is the only way to beat it.

[Anonymous No.7724496]

>>7724490
And before you say "oh but Warcraft 3 has activated abilities too" - the Battle Gear in Battle Realms is on a whole another level. It's like if almost every unit in the game had the ability to turn the tide of battle as much as a Hero Unit in WC3. Some single low tier units abilities are more powerful than most WC3 hero ultimates.

[Anonymous No.7724687]

>>7724490
So it's battle gear rock-paper-scissors? Got ya. Sounds like damage types in Age of Empires 2 told in a different way.

[Anonymous No.7724750]

>>7724687
>So it's battle gear rock-paper-scissors?
No it isn't. There is no "BG type A beats BG type B which beats BG type C". There is no battle gear that "counters" or that is "strong against X, weak against Y". Dark Canopy is a battle gear that makes the Staff Adept + everyone around the Staff Adept immune to ranged attacks, while the Staff Adept is standing still (not even attacking) and has stamina. On it's own it doesn't need to be countered, because it just delays the Staff Adept's death. But you surround him by powerful ranged units (Warlocks, Unclean Ones) and you got immediately a ranged fight you can't win. You have to engage the "ball" in melee. Luckily, Warlocks die like bitches to melee damage. However, Soul Chill is a Warlock ability that deals 100 Cutting damage (that's a lot, like 3 big hits at once) in an AoE range around them. The Unclean One can place an ability that deals continuous big damage in an area (=i.e. your death ball) and an alternate ability that slows down your enemy melee units approach or attempt to escape. And finally, the Diseased One's ability Death Wail ability dismounts enemy horse riders and drains all their stamina, so again something you can do to slow down enemy approach and prevent them running + the D. One is a slow melee "tank" unit good at taking hits from units you want to engage the Warlock with instead.

It's basically like a "perfect on paper" / cancerous to play against strategy, in the same way that Dimir Rogues was "perfect / unbeatable / cancerous to play against" in MtG constructed standard meta at the end of 2020. The other clans don't have a button that you press to "counter" this strategy. You have to adapt on the fly and use your resources appropriately. Some abilities are key (Guardian's Last Stand, Kabuki Warriors for Dragon, Swordsmen for Serpent) but you cannot just throw them at them blindly for a guaranteed win. You're just playing with a less OP deck and outplay the cancer deck accordingly.

[Anonymous No.7724769]

>>7724750
TL;DR
In AoE2, if you scout your enemy and see that he's going full archers, you make skirmishers, your enemy loses, because skirmishers obliterate archers. They are designed to do that. In Battle Realms, every Lotus game the death ball is coming, and you can't just use one strategy to stop it.

The AoE2 "rock-paper-scissors" element in Battle Realms is the armor/damage interaction, but even that is more sophisticated because it's not "does bonus damage to unit type", it's about the damage type dealt vs the units unique damage resistances. If Battle Realms had no Battle Gear (and no melee unit engagement), it would be just a more sophisticated AoE2.

[Anonymous No.7725045]

>>7724750
>>7724769
What you describe sounds a lot like more sophisticated AoE2 with one broken faction (Lotus). It's an AoE2 with extra layers, but only 4 nations so naturally they need the "sophistication".

[Anonymous No.7726050]

>>7725045
I don't think you've played either AoE2 or Battle Realms on more than a "casual" level. Either that or this is some pathetic attempt at trolling. AoE2 doesn't even have "factions" as unique as Starcraft/Warcraft. There are a few (like ~8% of the total) with a really fucked up tech tree (Goths, Indians, maybe Cumans). Every AoE2 pro will tell you that basically every civilization plays the same (small adjustments depending on where they are in team vs team games), it's just for some civilizations, some strategies are more viable or more effective (i.e. Franks going Knights, Goths going Infantry). Until you get to the 1400+ ELO ratings, good macro always beats micro. It matters fuck all if you can dodge Mangonel shots or quick wall enemy scouts if your economy is shit and you can't tell what your opponent is doing. The closest thing to an overpowered unit composition is fully upgraded Mangudai + Hussars + maybe some siege. And that's because the Mangudai is the most OP unit in the game (a cavalry archer = can run away from Skirmishers, but also deals bonus damage against siege) and it always has been. There are a couple of civilizations that are basically fucked against that (i.e. Slavs should basically never win against Mongols in pro games unless the Mongol player gets a really shit map) but most of them can just either play around it (aggressive civilizations that that peak early and can take them out before the Mangudai deathball gets rolling) or they can keep up with their own thing because they have a comparatively strong imp. In AoE2, pros can easily win with any unit limiting handicap (i.e. you have to go scouts into knights, or you have to go archers) against a competent mid tier player. In Battle Realms, if you let a mid tier player play against a pro who plays the game daily in multiplayer, but the pro can't use battle gears, the pro is going to lose pretty much every time. It's a fundamental part of the game, like using hero abilities in WC3.

[Anonymous No.7726472]

>>7726050
Sounds like your describing AoE2 to me

[Anonymous No.7727661]

>>7724023
Oh no, why did they delete you, cutie honey?

[Anonymous No.7728692]

>>7724298
Which ones?

[Anonymous No.7728787]

>>7720339
Got this as a cover game from a local gaming magazine, looked really shit to me

[Anonymous No.7729023]

Myth: The Fallen Lords and Myth II: Soulblighter

[Anonymous No.7729039]

>>7728692
C&C, Firestorm and Emperor. Core of the problem is a colossal pain in the ass.

[Anonymous No.7729047]

>>7729039
unironically git gud

[Anonymous No.7729908]

S A C R I F I C E

[Anonymous No.7730784]

>>7729908
This was way too hard when you didn't pick the OP monsters and spells

[Anonymous No.7733024]

>>7729023
Look at this dood

[Anonymous No.7733029]

>>7710059
Tiberium Sun and Knights and Merchants

[Anonymous No.7733036]

>>7733029
What makes Tiberium Sun special?

[Anonymous No.7733219]

>>7713693
>>7716793
And other Slavs

[Anonymous No.7733567]

>>7724164
Looks bland

[Anonymous No.7734120]

>>7717036
is it a good game though? I tried watching a couple of videos and it's non stop PRODUCTION COMPLETE PRODUCTION COMPLETE PRODUCTION COMPLETE PRODUCTION COMPLETE BUILDING COMPLETE RESEARCH COMPLETE

[Anonymous No.7734775]

>>7733029
Knights & Merchants is just Settlers but bad

[Anonymous No.7734903]

>>7710059
Alpha Centauri. It's basically Civilization on another planet but it's so much more than this (especially given that it was released before Civ 3 which is much more primitive).
>Great lore, characters and fluff
>Distinct factions
>4 ways to win
>Can change land and sea shelf elevation to influence climate, raise energy collection and/or sink enemy cities
>Can construct cities on water
>Can drop units from the orbit
>Social engineering à la civics in Civ 4
>Unit constructor
>Great diplomacy with the functional United Nations analog (you can actually pass useful resolutions unlike Civ3)
>Combat is balanced between the carpet of doom and stacks with over 9000 units
>Alien fauna, flaura and climate respond to your terraforming activity (aka an aggressive mix of pollution and barbarians from Civ).
>Can tame and breed the said alien fauna

[Anonymous No.7734987]

>>7734903
I really don't think Alpha Centauri is underrated. It's pretty much the best civ game ever made and the default for anyone looking for a good sci-fi civilization game.

[Anonymous No.7735498]

>>7710059
Complexity says nothing about a game's quality. I could make a game that for every menu selection you make, forces you to solve a murderous maze and alters different attack stats based on your maze-solving performance, proportion of left and right walls touched and divided by time taken with special bonuses for prime numbers on any of those, and the game would be more complex than anything you like but also a very shitty game.

[Anonymous No.7735545]

I wouldn't say underrated, because the game isn't very good (it seems unfinished) but Saga: Rage of the Vikings has some very interesting concepts.
Lots of different races with very distinct attributes, unique mechanics (you dont buy units, you breed them) and a very good soundtrack.

[Anonymous No.7735587]

>>7710059
I missed this game

[Anonymous No.7736910]

>>7735498
Well it's the good kind of complexity, the kind that adds new strategic elements to the game. Pretty sure Battle Realms is also the first RTS which had ranged units getting caught up in melee (like they actually have to stop running when engaged in melee + they use a melee animation that deals pitiful damage compared to ranged).

[Anonymous No.7737157]

Anyone remember that game where you could design your own pizza, including ants?

[Anonymous No.7737340]

>>7737157
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_Food_Tycoon

I never understood why you can put fucking ants or snakes on pizza.

[Anonymous No.7738189]

>>7737340
Some people enjoy that