/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.7707428]

Retro RGB just put out a 37 min. review of the new retrotink 5X

>https://youtu.be/nwNrqIjxBaA

[Anonymous No.7707441]

I'm not watching your video, fat fuck.

[Anonymous No.7707451]

>>7707441
you WILL watch the video

[Anonymous No.7707471]

>>7707428
Wasn't a fan of the his rant about input lag. Yes, 14ms of variable input lag ain't bad, but when you add that onto the input lag of the display itself— it's a big deal.

[Anonymous No.7707486]

>>7707451
DENIED!

[Anonymous No.7707529]

>>7707428
I like big fat shitty bob

[Anonymous No.7707534]

>>7707471
Yeah, he seems to be under the assumption that everyone has displays now with minimal input lag. Which is fair enough, even cheap sets are pretty good about lag nowadays. Problem being most new sets are 4K now and input lag gets worse and worse when dropping res

[Anonymous No.7707634]

>>7707534
If you were really concerned with any sort of lag you’d just play on a CRT.

[Anonymous No.7707636]

>>7707428
I hate this piece of shit, he was part of Tom lynching because of the Goemon 3 translation, i would kill this fat soi sjw if i have the opportunity.

[Anonymous No.7707638]

>>7707634
I mean, I do, but most people don’t

[Anonymous No.7707647]

>>7707471
>>7707534
The best TVs in terms of lag out now is the LG C9/CX OLEDs with around 7ms lag on both 1080p and 4k, gaming monitors can be had down to 3-5ms (not just g2g but the actual total round-trip latency), but be aware with PC gaming monitors though using HDMI (and 60hz if they support more than that) as some add more lag in those modes.

And yes, 14ms of lag added extra to the signal chain is a HUGE fucking deal, and variable at that! Unless you're neurologically challenged a seasoned gamer will notice lag down to about 3ms, and one of the main appeals of playing on real retro systems is to get away from the sluggishness of emulation running on high-level bloated OS systems, adding in the same amount of lag and frame pacing instability renders that whole costly practice pointless!
So I don't know where the fuck he's going with that or if he's shilling this shit or what, at least he's honest about the measured lag so us that know better can dismiss this "heh guize it's good enough" lag turd.

[Anonymous No.7707663]

>>7707636
tom lynch?

[Anonymous No.7707668]

>>7707647
>autism

[Anonymous No.7707672]

>>7707668
>low standards dumbfag cope

[Anonymous No.7707674]

>>7707647
14ms is less than a frame you neanderthal.

[Anonymous No.7707682]

>>7707674
Yes?

[Anonymous No.7707686]

>>7707647
>Unless you're neurologically challenged a seasoned gamer will notice lag down to about 3ms
Hope you meant 30ms because 3ms won’t even result in a single frame of lag, that’s too low to be noticeable by pretty much anyone

[Anonymous No.7707701]

>>7707471
a frame at 60FPS takes about 14ms to draw. how do you buffer a frame without having the entire frame?

[Anonymous No.7707776]

>>7707701
Ask Mike Chi, he got a motion adaptive deinterlacer working at 3ms somehow. I have not a sweet clue how that's possible.

[Anonymous No.7707815]

>>7707776
off by 1

[Anonymous No.7707817]

>>7707672
>faggot that wants to play retro games on HDTV

[Anonymous No.7707846]

These things dont take RF, also no sega genesis or psx support either. Fuck that . Not touching that video link either Maricon.

[Anonymous No.7707850]

>>7707846
>no sega genesis or psx support either

wat

[Anonymous No.7707857]

>>7707471
What's the realistic floor? It seems like when people talk "lag free" scalers what they really mean is "acceptably low."

[Anonymous No.7707859]

if you give a shit a about 14ms of lag you should just be playing on a CRT

[Anonymous No.7707891]

>>7707859
Or, you know, use a good line-doubler like the OSSC, or an FPGA system and only have to worry about the total lag of 3-7ms on a good panel.

But go ahead and spend $275 + shipping on this hack job so we can look forward to you having to justify it to yourself and never shutting the fuck up about how lag is myth or some dumb shit. Not like we have enough of you low-standards conformation-bias faggots shitting up the scene already.

[Anonymous No.7707892]

>>7707647
>but be aware with PC gaming monitors though using HDMI (and 60hz if they support more than that) as some add more lag in those modes.
Will input lag be reduced if I use the Display Port connection instead?

[Anonymous No.7707906]

>>7707892
If the monitor natively supports over 60hz I would look to see if you could find a review where they test it for lag in 60hz too and in the resolution and input standard you're going or have to use.

It really is completely random how different monitors go about this, so take nothing for granted.

[Anonymous No.7707908]

>>7707906
Mine has 14ms of input lag at 60hz, the lowest monitors I can find are at 9ms, so I'm not gonna lose sleep over it. Guess I'll stick to my CRT for 60hz.

[Anonymous No.7707941]

>>7707428
>Input lag isn't a big deal
Just remember that the next time that you're on here complaining about "old games having shitty controls".

[Anonymous No.7707952]

>>7707908
There probably are some 1080p 60hz gaming monitors that has that typical 3-5ms total lag (over DP at least), but you will need to get the OSSC and hope it plays nice with that monitor to maintain that low latency.

Your current monitor with the RetroSTINK 5x would have had at least 28ms of VARIABLE lag, so sticking with CRT since you have the option is really the smartest and most cost effective in your case.

What I've settled for when not using my CRTs is a HighDef HDMI NES, the Analogue SNT & SG, and the MiSTer for the rest on my LG C9 using HDMI, it's less of a hassle than a OSSC and both solutions offer no lag other than my TVs native 7ms @1080p 60hz.

It's a compromise that works for me, but it's perhaps not the most cost effective, I know.

[Anonymous No.7707956]

>>7707952
I already have the OSSC, I've played Super Monkey Ball and there's a HUGE difference between my 14ms monitor and my CRT.

[Anonymous No.7707986]

>>7707956
That's less than a frame of lag. I guarantee you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between an OSSC and a 5X in a blind test.

[Anonymous No.7707996]

>>7707428
I still don't get the point of this? You'd get the same experience by buying a usb adaptor for your NES controller, plugging it into your PC and firing up NES emulator XY or Z.

[Anonymous No.7707998]

>>7707956
In your mind. I don't care if you're daigo or someone who plays fake fighting games like Smash Bros, you're not discerning less than ~20ms at the very minimum. Average person it's more like 40ms.

[Anonymous No.7708003]

>>7707996
Idiot nerds think hardware-based emulation is somehow better than software-based emulation or that either has noticeable latency over real hardware.

[Anonymous No.7708042]

>>7707986
>>7707998
>>7708003
>numbskull cope
I guarantee you're a poor retarded faggot with no point of reference or the mental faculties to have any say in this regardless.
You're the type of idiots that where adamant people didn't need 720p "HD" TVs because they couldn't see a difference in resolution sitting in the couch or that the human eye can't see over 30fps etc.

[Anonymous No.7708057]

>>7708042
There were no HD channels back then so watching an SD TV signal on a HD set actually looked worse.

[Anonymous No.7708058]

>>7708042
Yes, we’re all very impressed with how smart and rich you must be to attain your ability to identify lag below 1 frame anon.
Please. Tell us more.

[Anonymous No.7708060]

why are people getting so mad about another line doubler option lol
its literally just one more option, losers in this thread are acting like its an affront to god lmao

[Anonymous No.7708067]

>>7707638
lol
>Plays on crt to avoid lag
so cute, these new kids to crt gaming. Poors everywhere that think they can tell a frame of lag apart from another.

[Anonymous No.7708069]

>>7707859
it takes about 14ms for a CRT to draw one frame at 60 FPS. the other 2.5ms is vertical blank when the electron beam is realigning.

[Anonymous No.7708070]

>>7707647
LMFAO THIS RETARDED FUCK THINKS YOU WILL NOTICE LAGE TO 3MS
LMFAO
LMFAO LAUHG AT THIS RETARDED FUCK.
>Thinks emulation has delay
>Doesn't know real hardware delay is longer in almost every case
lmfao.

[Anonymous No.7708072]

>>7708067
It’s not solely to avoid lag. I play on a CRT for plug n play simplicity with /vr/ hardware above anything else, the absence of lag is just a bonus. Ultimately it’s not that big a deal to me but hey keep worrying about how other people enjoy things. Sounds worthwhile.

[Anonymous No.7708081]

>>7708042
lmao. A 60Hz game/screen can't even provide visual indication of less than 16.67ms of lag. You have no idea what you're talking about hahaha.

[Anonymous No.7708092]

>>7708057
God, I remember this. What’s worse is my grandma has a Dish box connected through composite to a 4K TV.

[Anonymous No.7708113]

>>7708042
I can grab two random arcade boards off my shelf that are probably worth more than your entire collection. I can easily buy every retrotink that goes up for sale tomorrow and not think twice about it.
None of that matters though because you are a gigantic fucking retard who thinks anyone will notice less than a frame of lag from a scaler.

[Anonymous No.7708124]

Seems like there's a fuckton of compromises where certain features are only available on lower res, some features are only kinda there on paper like 1080i support, some just weren't properly thought out like the SCART connector being backwards, no built-in display so if a setting isn't compatible with your TV resulting in no picture you can just suck it, no RGBHV support so no high-res arcade games or Dreamcast VGA, expensive compared to buying used high-end home theater scalers or other retro vidya-specific solutions
I'd rather get an OSSC to linedouble 240p and combine it with something like a DVDO scaler for 480i and higher and to scale the final output to either 1080p or 4k

[Anonymous No.7708151]

>>7708081
>A 60Hz game/screen can't even provide visual indication of less than 16.67ms of lag.

Even an NES can literally update what's being sent to the display on a per-scanline basis, anon.

[Anonymous No.7708159]

>>7707428
>I'm gonna pay the price of a midend gaming PC on a box that will have me playing 35yo games on my brand new, flat LCD screen with 2 seconds input lag
WHY

[Anonymous No.7708168]

>>7708151
And how long does it take to replace a scanline after it has been drawn? Yep, 16.67ms.

[Anonymous No.7708181]

>>7708168
>can't even provide visual indication of less than 16.67ms of lag

Except it can literally provide a "visual indication" on the very next scanline. In fact, it can provide a "visual indication" in the middle of the scanline. These old consoles and televisions have no concept of a framebuffer, the signal is consumed by the television as it's generated by the hardware.

[Anonymous No.7708269]

>>7707428
and you couldn't post this in the actual retrostink-thread why?

[Anonymous No.7708275]

>>7707428

[Anonymous No.7708276]

>>7708060
hi mike

[Anonymous No.7708348]

>>7708124
>no RGBHV support so no high-res arcade games or Dreamcast VGA

RGB SCART cables preferably use 75 ohm sync-on-luma or sync on composite. CSYNC directly from a console with the appropriate attenuation will generally work. Do not use TTL CSYNC or anything with a sync stripper in it.

>csync generally works
>dont use a sync stripper though goy

[Anonymous No.7708540]

>>7707846
Who the fuck would use RF? It's even worse than composite video kek

[Anonymous No.7708543]

>>7708276
Shut the fuck up

[Anonymous No.7708549]

>>7708269
Op here, i made that thread as well.
Slowly, i will conquer /vr/

[Anonymous No.7708592]

>retro games outputting composite, converted to HDMI, played on an LCD monitor

[Anonymous No.7708604]

>>7708592
>falling for the RGB meme

[Anonymous No.7708620]

>>7708604
>falling for the composite, converted to HDMI, played on an LCD monitor meme

[Anonymous No.7708717]

>>7707857
the OSSC literally doesn't have the ability to add lag

[Anonymous No.7708720]

>>7707636
really? post proof.

[Anonymous No.7708732]

>>7708540
RF is the what was the norm back in those days, and if one has the cables already there’s no need to waste any money. RF on a basic CRT, as was intended. The best video output for old games.

[Anonymous No.7708738]

>>7707636
voultar put this guy back on track!
they are friends but he talked to him about it.

[Anonymous No.7708739]

[Anonymous No.7708743]

>>7708540
What is composite? RF is the only way to go, i guess you had to be there. Everyone here has ousted themselves as faggy zoomers that cannot play retro vidya without tampering some facet of the game, whether it be filter, upscalers, savestates, etc.

[Anonymous No.7708762]

>>7708732
>>7708743

[Anonymous No.7708787]

>>7707891
>the scene
Never thought people would unironically think and express themselves like this.

[Anonymous No.7708826]

>>7707701
Their calculations are based on when the frame is actually drawn.

So on a CRT, you would see a full frame, and on the Retrotink, you would see the same frame either 4 or 20 ms later, depending on the display mode (progressive vs interlaced).

[Anonymous No.7708839]

>>7708067
Your post gives of the same energy as the posts done by a tinder feminist calling someone sweetie when they are mad

[Anonymous No.7708841]

>>7708151
It can't interrupt the TV's output bro, only it's own scanline generation. The NES isn't making the TV redraw the fucking beam.

No matter what, the next time something is drawn to that same scanline in the actual TV is 16ms, or 33ms in the case of 30fps or 480i.

[Anonymous No.7708850]

>>7708081
Won't defend that guy's neurotic obsession with zero lag, but in theory the image is drawn 4 ms later than it reasonably could be.

A frame won't go by where you will have an instance of no perceived action from your input (depending on the game), but it will come out later, and this may mean that when you do an input, may be later than when the game has already processed the next frame, especially if variable, so in THEORY, it's something you could perceive, though it would be highly dependent on the game.

[Anonymous No.7708939]

>>7708787
dog, we all part of da posse, homes, can you dig it?

[Anonymous No.7708982]

>>7707952
>1080p 60hz gaming monitors that has that typical 3-5ms total lag
Aside from old VGA monitors, I literally cannot find a single LED monitors with less than 8ms of input lag in 60hz mode, what models have 3-5ms?

[Anonymous No.7709202]

>>7708738
That's actually good to know if true.

[Anonymous No.7709554]

>>7708717
Wouldn't scaling inherently require adding lag?

[Anonymous No.7709582]

>>7709554
The OSSC is a line doubler. Not a scaler.

[Anonymous No.7709583]

>>7707428
>Retro RGB just put out a 37 min. commercial for the retrotink 5X because Blobbert is friends with its creator
>
>>https://youtu.be/getfked

Fixed

[Anonymous No.7709596]

>>7707846
why the fuck would you ever use RF for a digital scaler meant for use on LCDs?

[Anonymous No.7709908]

>>7709583
>Blobbert

jej

[Anonymous No.7709932]

>>7709596
No one should use RF unless they're trying to get reddit points

[Anonymous No.7710051]

>>7708787
first day on the internet?

[Anonymous No.7710070]

>micro usb
Hard pass. Let me pay the extra cost for usbc, I don't want to buy a device that is inevitable going to break because of the worst connector ever designed.

[Anonymous No.7710086]

>>7710070
ok hamhands

[Anonymous No.7710215]

Just a heads up guys: Just received a warning from a trjanny that didn't like my serious reply to their shitpost that "ironic sarcasm" isn't allowed on 4chan!
This place is doing great, keep it up!

[Anonymous No.7710259]

Why the fuck would you buy this now when the OSSC pro is close to release? Its better to wait and see which is better.
In the meantime you can pick up a standard OSSC when it's on sale on aliexpress for like 80 bucks

[Anonymous No.7710271]

>>7708739
Looks really bad, especially considering the price.

I'll wait for the Pixel FX Morph.

[Anonymous No.7710272]

>>7710215
screenshot it

[Anonymous No.7710302]

>>7709596
RF is what the developers intended, it's short for "Right Feel"

[Anonymous No.7710306]

>>7710259
>when the OSSC pro is close to release
because it's not? lol.
you might want to read up on the shmups-forum-thread about it.
it's still several months away, at least.
pixelfx morph will definitely be released before the ossc pro

[Anonymous No.7710339]

TO THE GUY POSTING ABOUT 480i ON THE OSSC THANK YOU
>upsample 2x on
>480i x4
>scanlines on
>alternative scanlines off
>SL strength and hybrid 18%
IT LOOKS EXACTLY LIKE MY CRT OVER COMPONENT HOLY FUCK.

My only question is, can you set scanline settings per resolution? I like my 240p scanlines a little stronger and it would be annoying to have to pull out the remote to switch profiles every time.
I have everything over component so I can't set profile per input sadly.

[Anonymous No.7710347]

>>7710339
>480i x4

wut

[Anonymous No.7710350]

>>7710347
Line4x

[Anonymous No.7710375]

>>7710350
thats 1920 vertical lines...

[Anonymous No.7710421]

>>7710259
OSSC Pro will cost way more than this...

[Anonymous No.7710429]

>>7710302
I gave yer mam a right feel

[Anonymous No.7710495]

>>7710421
yeah no shit sherlock
I'm talking about getting the standard ossc until the pro comes out

[Anonymous No.7710558]

>>7710375
horizontal*

[Anonymous No.7710949]

>>7707891
enjoy your shitty bob deinterlace

[Anonymous No.7711242]

>>7707428
I'd stant buy something like this if they emulated a CRT. Scanlines are just one of the things that made retrogames have a really nice picture on CRTs.

[Anonymous No.7711432]

>>7707428
If you're going to put yourself on camera and you have that hideous thing on your face/neck, why wouldn't you shave? It's really distracting.

[Anonymous No.7711446]

>>7711432
He could twist your neck before half that bullshit came out of your whore mouth.

[Anonymous No.7711448]

>>7711446
If you shave his neckbeard, does he lose his power?

[Anonymous No.7711485]

>>7711432
...but not as distracting as a full fucking frame of lag.

[Anonymous No.7711492]

>>7711485
Which he also seems to think people won't notice.

[Anonymous No.7711498]

>>7711492
Most people actually wouldn't.
"Most people" as in retards and casuals.

[Anonymous No.7711863]

>>7710339
>game suddenly switches to 240p
hehe nothing personal

[Anonymous No.7711864]

>>7711242
proper crt-emulation will come with 8K-displays.
gon b lit (literally)

[Anonymous No.7711881]

>>7710339
Update on this
It looks fucking amazing, sitting a normal distance from my monitor I can't see any flicker at all, it's night and day compared to the default bob setting that I was using.
I also upped the pre-ADB gain to 13 which helps a lot with PS2 era games that tend to be darker through component.
I wish I had a capture card to show you guys, it honestly makes 480i look like it's upscaled through an emulator or something.

[Anonymous No.7712283]

>>7711864
why do we need 8k to emulate the look of a crt? 4k isnt enough?

[Anonymous No.7712325]

>>7711881
can you give a full list of the settings used? I'm confused by the upsample 2x immediately followed by the 4x, as 4 x 480 = 1920

[Anonymous No.7712391]

>>7712325
>upsample 2x immediately followed by the 4x, as 4 x 480 = 1920
read the ossc wiki before commenting

[Anonymous No.7712439]

>>7712391
fuck off kike

[Anonymous No.7712443]

>>7712439

[Anonymous No.7712504]

>>7707428
Well I'm sold on it.

[Anonymous No.7712659]

>>7712283
only for low TVL-counts.