Dune

[Anonymous No.7695368]

Is there any reason to play this over Dune 2000? I'm on mission 5 and while I adore the presentation and OST, micromanaging all units and buildings is a horrible experience compared to 2000.

[Anonymous No.7695417]

>>7695368
For me, it's Dune 2000, great music and cutscenes, comfy Arrakis landscapes...

[Anonymous No.7695430]

It's ok lil zoomie at least you made it this far.

[Anonymous No.7695646]

>>7695368

[Anonymous No.7695754]

>>7695368
> is a horrible experience compared to 2000.
no it's not, that's the game.
If your wish is for your playing experience to be "just what i usually do" from other gayass games, then you've got ugly nasty 2000.
If you never played other rts and let go of expectations, you can enjoy the beautiful manual control of dune2

[Anonymous No.7695820]

>>7695368
>reason

Just say its not your cup of tea and move on. These games are from different eras, what do you expect? Stop trying act all rational simply because you can't/won't deal with the games mechanics. What's even the fucking point of this?

[Anonymous No.7695958]

Only pure nostalgia. There are reasons UI developed well past this. If you are not enjoying it, leave the fond memories... to your memory.

[Anonymous No.7695976]

>>7695958
how the fuck can you even stand to look at that shit streak you posted compared to this? Like i can't see a single piece of your screenshot that looks even ok, let alone can be readily parsed as what it means.
Seriously looks like someone smeared a turd with chunks. Is this a base? There's not even some tire tracks or something between the buildings to indicate they're tied together?

[Anonymous No.7695984]

>>7695958
SOUL
>>7695976
SOULLESS

[Anonymous No.7695989]

>Isn't it so annoying and dated how you have to click the mouse to shoot each enemy in FPS games?
>Wouldn't it be better to just have an option to click 'kill all' in one level, and just walk to the end?

[Anonymous No.7695991]

>>7695984
sure man the cash-in remaster added the soul

[Anonymous No.7695993]

>>7695989
Is that what you consider a drag select is?

[Anonymous No.7696032]

>>7695993
not just that but whatever else op means by not having to micromanage buildings.
It's not nostalgia I only played dune2 in 2019.
The problem with you all is you played too many other rts and got 'comfortable' with their mechanics, i didn't play much rts

[Anonymous No.7696041]

>>7695984
Remakes can be as soulful as the original or less, never more soulful.

[Anonymous No.7696045]

>>7696032
Mechanically Dune 2 is just like any other modern RTS. Needing to select every unit individually while the game relies on massed attacks with unit cap maxed out is a control issue, not a gameplay mechanical issue.

[Anonymous No.7696065]

>>7695989
If every time you wanted to shoot an enemy, you had to click the appropriate weapon icon in the UI, then click "attack", then click the enemy, your FPS game would be unplayable. That's how Dune 2's UI feels compared to any post-Warcraft 2 RTS.

I wonder why nobody tried to make a fan remake with the same graphics, but updated controls and less braindead AI.

[Anonymous No.7696101]

>>7696032
>whatever else op means by not having to micromanage buildings

He probably means lack of production queues for units and the "produce slab - place slab - produce structure - place structure" mechanic that forces you to go to the construction yard 4+ times to construct a single building for no real reason.

[Anonymous No.7696157]

>>7696101
Ok here's the thing. Somehow it got lost along the way, that this is a mechanic.
The environment of Arrakis is harsh and if you want to bunker down against the elements you can opt to make slabs. You don't have to. You can treat your base like a campsite and throw your buildings on sand but of course they will be beset by wind etc and degrade faster.
Dealing with the environment is part of the "strategy".
There is a major fanpatch out there whose author has continued over years to failed to understand that the building are still supposed to degrade when on slabs, but slowly. Because it's fucking Arrakis. Despite developer comments that this is part of the game, the patcher insists that this is a bug, and patches it out.

You guys, like the patcher just want to play some game that you have established in your head from playing other games. >Buhbuhbut in Red Alert buildings don't degrade
This is Arrakis.

[Anonymous No.7696502]

>>7695368
Dunno, OP, I love the classic!

[Anonymous No.7696521]

sup nigs

[Anonymous No.7696548]

>>769650 filename incorrect

[Anonymous No.7696850]

>>7696548
this is supposed to link to this >>7696502

[Anonymous No.7697236]

>>7695368
You could play the modern fanmade rebuilts/clones like Dune Legacy or Dune Dynasty.
They make the controls more modern, but are essentially the same game.

[Anonymous No.7697246]

>>7696157
I was mainly referring to the separate production and placement steps. Maybe at the concept stage they wanted you to be able to stockpile stuff and then place it all at once (which would make a ton of sense for slabs), but in the existing state this has no point other than making you click twice as many times.

Also: just because something is developer-intended, doesn't mean it makes sense. The "buildings slowly degrading on slabs" mechanic is pointless from a gameplay perspective as no game session lasts long enough for it to affect production, all it does is tickle your OCD and puzzle novice players. There's a reason why subsequent RTS games copied pretty much every aspect of Dune II but not the slab/degradation one.

[Anonymous No.7697249]

>>7696045
i dunno what the rest of your post means but
> the game relies on massed attacks
is basically why rts is a crap dead genre and after i had my fill of dune2 (about half way through) i was like, ok i get it now, no real need to go through this process again.
i thought maybe other later RTSs would add some strategy but researching it, it turned out they did not.
and then to cap it off the genre got crowded with clickrate games for pitiable squinty eyed insectoid people
Dune 2, maaaybe one or two of the other Westwood ones, then, stop. that's all you need

[Anonymous No.7697267]

>>7697249
There were RTS games like Metal Fatigue that instead tried to rely on few but more intricate units. None of them got it right.

[Anonymous No.7697413]

>>7697249
Warcraft 3 has you relying on a hero unit that you need to level up and actively control to win engagements. It’s not a case of who shits out the most units.

Either way, flanking attacks with smaller bands and hit and run tactics are possible and viable in most RTS games. Not the case in Dune though as controlling two separate but big groups of units along with your base is bordering physically uncomfortable.

[Anonymous No.7697421]

>>7695368
No, not really.
The unrefined user interface makes playing this game a chore, especially the late game missions, which can drag on for hours.

[Anonymous No.7697431]

>>7695368
It's worth playing if you're curious about the roots of the RTS genre, but if the dated UI puts you off, there's really no point in playing it any further. It's a game I personally enjoy, but it didn't take long for RTSs with more intuitive UIs to come along.

[Anonymous No.7697442]

>>7697431
one thing that I - as a person who liked dune2 and found i couldn't get into any other rts - found off putting was how in dune2 i would click, press m a or h or whatever, with my other and then and click again at the location of the command. this was fast and felt satisfying and efficient to me.
It seemed - in my ignorance- that the later games didn't have this two handed workflow, it was all mouse clicking. I didn't put a lot of effort in to looking into this so.. is this correct or can you still rapid issue/select commands with hotkeys in say dune 2000?

[Anonymous No.7697448]

>>7697413
>a hero unit
this does NOT sound like adding 'strategy' (by which is meant tactics) but rather something else entirely.

The flanking you mention etc sounds ok. Yeah you can't do it in dune2, and as far as I know the enemy can't even approach you from anything but a direct line from their base, so you don't have to defend it either.

[Anonymous No.7697463]

>>7697442
The hotkey system in Dune II is surprisingly similar to Starcraft, so I imagine C&C and its ilk including Dune 2000 would use the same hotkeys as well. I think hotkeys were a genre convention that was codified early on.

[Anonymous No.7697526]

>>7697442
Most RTSs have hotkeys. For example Warcraft games highlight the binding when you move the cursor over a command icon. Press P to send your unit to patrol.

[Anonymous No.7697529]

>>7697442
Dune 2 has like 3 hotkeys while later RTS games had hotkeys for every building and unit to produce, some even allowed you to apply hotkeys for groups of units.
In Dune 2 you NEED to use the hotkeys as your mouse is overworked as it is.

[Anonymous No.7697546]

>>7697529
>>7697526
>>7697463
ok so somewhat tongue in cheek i have to ask why, when a chinkubot is destroying everyone's productivity in the computer lab at night by playing starcraft, do you only seem to hear the mouse-specific "clickclickclickclickclickclickclickclick"?

[Anonymous No.7697583]

>>7697546
The worse you are at a game, the more you use the mouse in an RTS game. Learning the keybinds and offloading work from your mouse to your keyboard is part of the learning curve of any modern RTS game as it allows you to free your mouse to do tasks only it can perform. Finding a good balance between the two is a skill issue, but the game should also enable it. Needless to say, Dune 2 is pretty horrible in this balance. Also needless to say is that your chink friend would get destroyed by anyone with a functioning keyboard, if he really doesn’t use the KB shortcuts.

[Anonymous No.7698015]

>>7697583
>your chink friend would get destroyed by anyone with a functioning keyboard

Maybe his friend is Larva trolling some Code A noobs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEZbYcXSCXs

[Anonymous No.7698604]

>>7695958
>Only pure nostalgia.
Bullshit. Just finished the Harkonnen campaign two days ago and beside lack of band-boxing/control groups and a few mildly annoying bugs it still holds up. It's fun and in the later missions even challenging.
Plying through the Atreides campaign in 2k now and despite a few of the QoL additions the units suck, the sidebar feels really artificial as you can't add production queues anymore and there would even be zero incentive to make new bases via MCVs if the structures didn't become fuckhuge.
And the worst thing is how they axed most of the hotkeys. The remake didn't really need to let you do literally everything via keyboard like in the original, but I'm missing most of the hotkeys really badly.

>There are reasons UI developed well past this.
Well duh. Doesn't change the above, though.

[Anonymous No.7698620]

>>7696521
This thing is an absolute nightmare in v1.02. I don't know if the game speed to range bug existed back then, but in game data it has the same range as the rocket tank and the damage is certainly greater than the listed 65 (also nerfed in v1.06). I didn't bother playing through the Atreides campaign after the Harkonnen one because that's just seal clubbing until enemies get their palaces.

[Anonymous No.7698639]

>>7697246
>The "buildings slowly degrading on slabs" mechanic is pointless from a gameplay perspective
It depends on the chosen House. Only Harkonnen are fucked the hardest by it and Atreides are barely unaffected.

>as no game session lasts long enough for it to affect production
If you play as Ordos or especially Atreides then maybe, as Harkonnen you really don't want to get your turrets, factories, repair bays and especially refineries to degrade into the yellow. And on the later missions that absolutely happens.

[Anonymous No.7698640]

>>7697246
>>7698639
>and Atreides are almost unaffected
FFIX

[Anonymous No.7698657]

>>7697448
>Yeah you can't do it in dune2,
LOLWUT

>and as far as I know the enemy can't even approach you from anything but a direct line from their base, so you don't have to defend it either.
Each structure and unit for any player has a priority value. They head towards the most valuable thing, which is usually a heavy factory or a repair facility. There are conditions which can make them change targets too.
Also there are drops which tend to attack whatever is closest and the drops usually happen close to your base.
And then there are also Fremen who spawn wherever they like.

[Anonymous No.7698660]

>>7697529
>Dune 2 has like 3 hotkeys
This game was made in the time not everyone had mice. You can literally control the mouse cursor via the keyboard. Even if you have the mouse plugged and enabled in the setup.
Why are there so many people who either never played the game or have forgotten near everything about it in this thread?

[Anonymous No.7698672]

>>7698660
I played Dune 2 today. It's unplayable without a mouse and without constant M, A and H use to ease the burden on the mouse.

[Anonymous No.7698715]

>>7698660
Just because it has a keyboard control option doesn't mean it's viable. Take Doom for example - yes, it has keyboard controls by default, but it's MUCH more difficult without a mouse.

There was a Genesis port of Dune II that used the D-pad to move the cursor, and even though the port changed many mechanics to require less click spam, it still got blasted by reviewers for being a massive pain in the ass to control.

[Anonymous No.7698716]

>>7698672
>It's unplayable without a mouse
To us, in 2021, sure. It was really clumsy back then but hey, not everyone had mice.

>and without constant M, A and H use to ease the burden on the mouse.
And? It was designed to be played like that. The only difference is that today your second hand will be doing nothing after you select the group you wish to order around. Because you'll be using context-dependent mouse clicks.

[Anonymous No.7698720]

>>7698715
>Take Doom for example - yes, it has keyboard controls by default, but it's MUCH more difficult without a mouse.
I literally can't play the original with the mouse to this day. The keyboard allows more precision and I don't constantly accidentally move forward if I want to move sideways or turn all the damn time.
Source ports are another matter entirely.

[Anonymous No.7698732]

>>7698660
>>7698716
Literally everyone I knew in the early-mid-90s who had a computer capable of running Dune II had a mouse (mainly because if it could run Dune II, it could run Windows 3.1, and you'd be stupid not to take advantage of that if just for Solitaire and Minesweeper)

[Anonymous No.7698745]

>>7695368
I prefer the music of Doom 2
>micromanaging all units and buildings is a horrible experience compared to 2000.
Play the sourceports.

>>7697236
This.

[Anonymous No.7698746]

>>7698732
>Windows 3.1
Eww.

>and you'd be stupid not to take advantage of that if just for Solitaire and Minesweeper
Are you a woman? I remember people bragging how it lets them run some early office suite (Lotus? memory very fuzzy in that regard) but that's the first time I see packaged games being called that buggy, laggy shit's selling point.

[Anonymous No.7698761]

>>7698746
Well if you were one of the lucky rich kids with their own gaming PC, you probably didn't need Windows, but any kind of family computer would've had it. Also, SkiFree.

[Anonymous No.7698871]

>>7698720
>Source ports are another matter entirely
Nothing stops you from removing the vertical component of the mouse while playing with a relatively modern OS, don't need a source port for that.

[Anonymous No.7698879]

>>7698871
Back in my day we just taped the vertical movement sensor inside the mouse.

[Anonymous No.7698882]

>>7698871
Yeah, but then I'd have to leave the vertical autoaim on which kind of defeats part of a source port's point. It's fully 3D and it's perfectly fine. Different gameplays.

[Anonymous No.7698890]

>>7698882
>source port's point
There are many "points" to a source port, vertical aim is one of them. I've used 3 and never used jumping or vertical aim as that's not what the game was built around. They do enable higher resolutions and interpolated framerates, that make the game more enjoyable without altering the way you play it.

[Anonymous No.7698892]

>>7698871
Sorry, I misread. I don't get how you "remove the vertical component" then. Is there something in the DOOM's setup that can disable one of the axes? Don't remember much, except that I had to drop the mouse back in the day because of this thing so it's probably not configurable.

[Anonymous No.7698905]

>>7698892
When I played Doom 1, 2, Final and Master Levels I used novert.com to remove the mouse movement. Think E4M2 of The Ultimate Doom made me do it. Either way, unless you physically mod your mouse, you need to alter the input to the game via software, but novert boots automatically with my DOS Dooms anyway. Not that I used them after my first playthrough, I just use Crispy.

[Anonymous No.7698909]

>>7698890
>There are many "points" to a source port, vertical aim is one of them.
Sure, but I either want something as close to the original as possible or go for a fan remake or ideally source port whenever possible. The area in-between isn't as appealing to me for whatever reason.

>higher resolutions
My monitor is great at upscaling and the aspect ratio can be enforced, I think it's via the driver. I have an old 17" in a box but going back to a TN from a good IPS is going to be pretty tough.

[Anonymous No.7698917]

>>7698905
>to alter the input to the game via software
Oh, so a loader. It could work but I'm fine with keyboard, really. Played through Dark Forces and both of Raven's games with it back in the day. It's still more or less fine for me today but I think I've grown too lazy because I tend to choose source ports more often.

[Anonymous No.7698918]

>>7698909
Higher rendering resolutions go beyond what your monitor can do, as they allow you to see farther by rendering more. Something you especially appreciate on larger levels where enemies can see and shoot you but the low resolution doesn't allow you to even see the chaingun sniper unloading on you.

[Anonymous No.7699515]

>>7698657
i meant you don't have to defend against a flanking tactic

[Anonymous No.7699679]

Dune 2000 was just a worse C&C95. It was clunky as fuck and Deviators ruined the game for anyone not playing Ordos.

[Anonymous No.7700386]

>>7699679
Dune 2000 is faithful enough to not have any chance touching the C&C games, just like the game it’s based on.