The amiga was the system on which musicians and composers were vastly better than the folks who codes graphics and gameplay. Looking back, it's mind numbingly astonishing how much better the music was over gameplay and graphics on this thing.

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Anonymous Mon Apr 26 07:08:18 2021 No.7690358 [Reply] [Original]

The amiga was the system on which musicians and composers were vastly better than the folks who codes graphics and gameplay.

Looking back, it's mind numbingly astonishing how much better the music was over gameplay and graphics on this thing.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 26 16:01:42 2021 No.7691791 i wish i understood music

Anonymous Mon Apr 26 16:04:25 2021 No.7691797

>>7691791
I wish I understood music chips. I've been a musician for over 20 years and a composer for 10 years and I've always wanted to try writing for an old system but I have no idea how any of them did it. I wish I could just convert notation into chip music but that's not how it works.

But on topic, yes, amiga sound quality was amazing.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 26 16:12:30 2021 No.7691828 >>7690358 This is true, music and visuals were pure magic back in the day. Most games sucked compared to anything else out at the time though. The C64 is similar, AWESOME music but just not that fun to play at all really.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 26 16:16:42 2021 No.7691847 >>7691797 The C64 SID chip is much like an analog synthesizer with envelopes and a filter, so it would be good place to start to help you wrap your head around it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 26 16:54:02 2021 No.7691987 >>7690358 And it was a nightmare for the musicians who tried to use it. Tim Follin said this himself

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 26 17:02:12 2021 No.7692031 >>7691828 >The C64 is similar, AWESOME music but just not that fun to play at all really. If you only ever played its PAL library I can understand why you'd feel that way.

Anonymous Mon Apr 26 17:19:19 2021 No.7692076

>>7690358
>The amiga was the system on which musicians and composers were vastly better than the folks who codes graphics and gameplay.
false. they were all equally as good as eachother
>>7691987
tim follin has never had to program much in his life and talks so much shit. this is why he's disappeared off of the internet. every single routine he used was programmed by stephen ruddy. all he's ever done is enter in notes and compiled the code.
http://www.vgmpf.com/Wiki/index.php/Stephen_Ruddy
send your praise to stephen, not to a talentless hack that ripped off jethro tull for decades.
>>7691847
>The C64 SID chip is much like an analog synthesizer
it's analogue and digital.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 26 17:22:02 2021 No.7692082 >>7692031 I can count all the NTSC only games that mattered on both hands, while the europeans were NTSC fixing PAL releases because American programmers were so dangerously incompetent that they couldn't even fix their own code.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 26 17:25:29 2021 No.7692092 >>7692082 >I can count all the NTSC only games that mattered on both hands https://www.lemon64.com/games/votes_list.php >63 of 100 games on here are NTSC Try again.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 26 17:31:21 2021 No.7692105 >>7692092 > lemon64 > 63 it just keeps getting even more embarrassing for the failures in america. consider killing yourself as soon as possible. > lemon64 the only people that use that site are pedophiles and compulsive liars.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 26 18:05:10 2021 No.7692198 >>7692105 >>7692082 you know, dude, you could at least provide examples of American-developed games you dislike and why instead of just calling him names

Anonymous Mon Apr 26 18:13:55 2021 No.7692227

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJGmxm2K4Qk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntEz4o5eq7k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8s97AQKBlIw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bL35HvTIMmw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybtCLti5RoU

>shitting on NTSC programmers as these exist

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 26 18:14:55 2021 No.7692231 Someone reccomend a romset to a noob for this system

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 26 18:17:17 2021 No.7692239 >>7690358 one word: tekkno https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0WUoOcxRl0

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 26 18:19:55 2021 No.7692250 >>7692227 man how come in every home computer thread you guys always gotta cherry pick the absolute shittiest garbage shovelware that nobody actually played back in the day

Anonymous Mon Apr 26 18:31:40 2021 No.7692307
File: 1.36 MB, 1543x1507, computers.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Why didn't Amutticans make good games for their computer hardware, /vr/? Were they too consolecucked at the time? Europeans didn't have any problems making excellent computer games. It wasn't until Doom that burgers finally saw the way and took the PC master race pill.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 26 18:33:25 2021 No.7692312 >>7692307 lyl any time Eurojank got ported to a console (as for example Zool and Turrican were) those games got exposed for how mediocre they were

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 26 18:39:30 2021 No.7692324 Turrican is better than Mega Man FWIW

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 26 18:48:30 2021 No.7692353 nah the great C64 games were all NTSC--Epyx, LucasArts, Accolade, Activision, Origin, etc. Euros made some nice demos but rarely good games.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 26 18:58:49 2021 No.7692383 even then, genre defining games came out of these machines. can't say the same for most euroshit computers. ultima and wizardry were built on the Apple II.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 26 19:01:36 2021 No.7692391 File: 359 KB, 640x636, 1608499779661.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7692307 Superfrog was the bomb

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 26 19:03:41 2021 No.7692398 >>7692383 Turrican? Dizzy? Giana Sisters? Jack The Nipper? Sensible Soccer? James Pond? Creatures?

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 26 19:06:59 2021 No.7692410 >>7692398 >turrican >rips off an obscure japanese arcade game and metroid at once >genre defining >giana sisters >literally just SMB but worse >the rest are zniggy grade shit

Anonymous Mon Apr 26 19:37:52 2021 No.7692482

>>7692353
something i never understood about NTSC guys is why they had no concept of code optimization. take something like Epyx's The Movie Monster Game. jesus christ that's an absolute PITA to play. so much disk access. then you compare Andrew Braybook doing all-nighters trying to figure out how to fit games into a single load.

Anonymous Mon Apr 26 20:45:42 2021 No.7692669

>>7692482
European Demo-scene kids (literally) trying to squeeze as much cool graphical effect tricks and music into as little bits as possible as fast they can, in hopes of get paid for a game project getting cranked out in 1-3 months.
-VS-
Mature American educated computer programmers with the help of other professionals in the entertainment industry having a focused narrative in mind and building a game around that.

That's really the gist of it, Europeans had cool graphics and music but shallow games, Americans had more sound game design and narrative depth but where data hogs with often just lame bleep-bloop renditions of classical music.

Think LucasArts/Sierra VS Ocean.

Anonymous Mon Apr 26 21:12:17 2021 No.7692734
File: 131 KB, 634x329, d1a4f9d553969cb24ed37cd9e5948b8b.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Here's a typical example. Ultima IV uses two double sided disks with separate sides for the town, dungeons, etc. They surely couldn't have needed all that space (there were many NES RPGs that fit in 128k-256k ROM while the total capacity of a 1541 disk between both sides is 340k) but it made it more efficient to organize the game this way.

Anonymous Mon Apr 26 23:54:18 2021 No.7693092

>>7691797
I know the feeling. I started off on the piano as a child and learned the fundamentals that way. Then they started making sound chips and those just got more and more alien to what I'd originally learned for many years.
You can always convert musical notation to chip music. You'll just be making very bland garbage. You see this in far too many games. You can also use trackers, which might be more familiar to you if you've worked with sequencers. Have a look at something like Famitracker. If that's still too obtuse then try some Amiga trackers. Maybe not le authentic hipster chiptune but might be easier for you to make good music with.

>>7691987
Way to torpedo your own argument, sport

Anonymous Tue Apr 27 00:17:18 2021 No.7693151

>>7693092
>You can always convert musical notation to chip music. You'll just be making very bland garbage. You see this in far too many games.
It seems like with most NTSC C64 games they just do this and they never really figured how to to use trackers or really push the SID like Euros did.

Anonymous Tue Apr 27 00:35:29 2021 No.7693189

>>7692231
There are few system exclusives, and even fewer ports that are definitive on Amiga (most point'in'click adventure games are better on PC). This is is my curated list; notable good games are Chaos Engine 1-2 and the ultimate jank euroformer, LIONHEART.

https://pastebin.com/vT29es51

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 27 01:31:53 2021 No.7693326 >>7693151 Euros had a hard-on for shoving arpeggios into everything, makes me wonder if the average euro student learned more music theory than the average american non band kid

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 27 01:34:25 2021 No.7693334 >>7693189 'preciate ya The impulse to curate my own list of several consoles is just about going to win me over and waste a good chunk of my time

Anonymous Tue Apr 27 01:37:47 2021 No.7693343

In the PAL scene you had professional chiptune musicians like Tim Follins and Jonathan Dunn who would offer their services to any dev willing to pay. It was easy because England is small and you can get to anywhere in a few hours on the bus. The problem is, the US is too big for that. Although a fair bit of the game industry was in California, there were other devs like Microprose on the other side of the country so it wasn't possible to easily travel around as an SID musician for hire.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 27 01:42:30 2021 No.7693359 >>7693092 I'll give famitracker a try, thank you.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 27 01:46:27 2021 No.7693368 >>7693343 That's unfair because almost every game dev of importance in the 8-bit era was in California. The only major ones I can think of that weren't were Microprose (Bethesha, Maryland) and Origin (Austin, Texas)

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 27 01:51:13 2021 No.7693376 >>7693368 Microprose was a total CIA/Pentagon front operation. It's why they were based near Washington DC and did military sims.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 27 02:44:57 2021 No.7693464 >>7692482 >>7692669 Cassette load times were highly unpleasant so trying your darndest to fit the game into a single load was important.

Anonymous Tue Apr 27 04:09:34 2021 No.7693624
File: 54 KB, 1280x800, AdvancedMidiAmigaSampler2_Amaspic.tft2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Gentle reminder that Amiga threads are being used as proxys for /pol/ shittery and jingoism.
If you come across any post containing
>muh pal/ameritard/burger
>muh ntsc/murrica/yurojank
or similiar, please refrain from spending (you)s und move on.
Thank you.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 27 04:30:24 2021 No.7693656 Muh nutsac

Anonymous Tue Apr 27 04:47:10 2021 No.7693680

>>7693151
The laziness wasn't limited to the C64 but it does seem to be a very American thing. There's very innovative stuff on early PSGs from Japan while America was mainly doing beeps and boops.

>>7693326
I suspect it had more to do with experimentation than music theory. For me that was certainly the case. When PSGs were introduced it opened up a whole word of new possibilities. Few people could even imagine what those were and you just fucked around to see what happened. There was no traditional instrument that could do the sort of stuff they could, let alone be easily repeatable and tweakable with a few numbers. Many iconic chip tune sounds and effects originated there.

Anonymous Tue Apr 27 10:52:37 2021 No.7694304
File: 85 KB, 640x400, gallery_23_999_img.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

For the Amiga version of D&D: Pool of Radiance, the music had to be made from scratch because the PC version had none to speak of.
The song the game plays during camping is STILL in my head, 30 years later.
Did anyone ITT play this on Amiga?

Anonymous Tue Apr 27 14:09:13 2021 No.7694895
File: 2.99 MB, 480x360, Creatures II - Torture Screens (C64, 1992).webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>7692410
Come on, Creatures was a really outstanding game. Both for the technical achievements (I'm speaking less about the Amiga version but rather the C64 one) and also in terms of popularity. Creatures II: Torture Trouble being a very, very late C64 game was a must have and dominated the gaming charts (for the system) back in the day.

Anonymous Tue Apr 27 14:35:25 2021 No.7695003
File: 2.30 MB, 576x360, amiga-pools_of_darkness.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>7694304
I played the Krynn games on Amiga, but none of the other goldbox games.
Been wanting to go through them one by one, but they are not short games, so it's a bit daunting.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 27 15:33:06 2021 No.7695240 >>7693624 Gentle reminder that this guy is a naive hippy type who understands nothing

Anonymous Tue Apr 27 15:39:28 2021 No.7695260

>>7694895
Creatures 2 I think was after they discovered VSP scrolling which opened some new possibilities--it's a lot faster and works in a manner similar to NES scrolling so you save lots of CPU time for other tasks (normal C64 scrolling uses 20% of the CPU). Only caveat is some C64s choke on it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 27 15:46:35 2021 No.7695279 >>7694304 this is also actually an American-developed Amiga game, it's not European

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 27 16:44:51 2021 No.7695408 File: 89 KB, 1920x1080, Copy of Amiga 500 Plus (Commodore-Amiga, 1991, Amiga)_1.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7694304 My current Amiga HD. Lots of the gold box games on it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 27 17:02:51 2021 No.7695459 >>7695003 Pool of Radiance and the rest are way better on Amiga. Mouse support alone makes it worth the trouble.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 27 17:05:48 2021 No.7695470 >>7695459 SSI actually bothered to properly support the Amiga instead of shitty copypaste ports; Origin's Amiga stuff for example is just the EGA PC versions with slightly different colors, no music, and no mouse support.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 27 17:17:53 2021 No.7695509 File: 145 KB, 1920x1080, Copy of Amiga 500 Plus (Commodore-Amiga, 1991, Amiga)_8.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7695470 I think Secret of the Silver Blades has the best looking borders of the Amiga gold box.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 27 17:22:43 2021 No.7695520 File: 248 KB, 1920x1080, Screenshot (16).png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7695509 For the Amiga deniers, behold! The dos version of same game....

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 27 17:25:03 2021 No.7695528 SSI made like one game engine and kept reissuing it over and over with different assets. It was cheap and extremely profitable.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 27 17:31:16 2021 No.7695540 >>7695528 Many a monster slain. Black isle did the same thing with the infinity engine.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 27 20:04:27 2021 No.7695978 >>7695408 >POD Amiga had Pools of Darkness?

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 27 20:06:23 2021 No.7695985 >>7695509 You can have that one. I didn't like the borders; I didn't like the game at all. It was claustrophobic. Wasn't the whole story inside a mountain, or underground, or something?

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 27 21:01:01 2021 No.7696140 >>7690358 Making music on the Amiga must have been fun. Though the Amiga seems slightly limiting compared to DOS based trackers.

Anonymous Wed Apr 28 00:17:25 2021 No.7696675

>>7696140
It was. Not nearly as limiting as you think, considering the standard for PCs was the built in speaker when the first Amiga was released. Even the first PC sound cards were limited to bleeps and bloops.
The main problem with the Amiga is that the OS was half baked. Not even baked at all initially. So there was no simple way to handle more then 4 channels. By the time there was it was more or less obsolete.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 28 00:21:56 2021 No.7696686 >>7695978 Yeah that Pools of Darkness. By the time that came out the Amiga was getting a little long in the tooth and it shows. Not being VGA.

Anonymous Wed Apr 28 06:04:53 2021 No.7697373

>>7696675
The Amiga was an amazing architecture by mid-late 80s standards, but by the time the AGA chipset made its way out the door, it was too little too late. The PC had started to exceed it by that point, and Doom was the final nail in the coffin because it was able to leverage the raw number crunching power and framebuffer architecture PCs offered. Amiga relied more on console-esque custom hardware that could do more with less horsepower, but ultimately wasn't as flexible.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 28 12:29:57 2021 No.7698172 >>7695459 I could swear that the DOS port supported mouse, but it was so inferior to my C64 copy that I never used it.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 28 12:34:07 2021 No.7698189 I was under the impression that the ST was the musical workhorse

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 28 12:54:22 2021 No.7698261 >>7698172 it was hard disk installable and you didn't have to swap disks or put up with nonstop loading like you did on C64. so there's that.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 28 12:58:09 2021 No.7698274 File: 65 KB, 352x288, jay_minier.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7690358 The sound hardware was very straight forward. The video hardware was a labyrinth of insanity: it took years before people could properly utilize it.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 28 12:59:58 2021 No.7698282 >>7698189 > ST was the musical workhorse It had MIDI ports built right into the motherboard. This allowed it to control other devices quickly and accurately. The soundchip itself wasn't the reason why.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 28 16:11:21 2021 No.7698926 >>7698172 Not that I ever found. Pool and Azure Bonds do not support a mouse. The interface is a madhouse on the DOS version of Pool.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 28 16:17:42 2021 No.7698954 >>7690358 I'm glad by the time the Amiga was ready for release, Jack Tramiel was GONE.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 28 20:02:32 2021 No.7699690 BUMP OF LIFE

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 28 21:06:38 2021 No.7699869 >>7698954 Jack had not wanted to buy Amiga, his plan for a next-gen computer was essentially what became the Atari ST.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 28 21:12:33 2021 No.7699890 >>7692307 Speccy is the only European hardware listed. Why were you guys so shit at making that?

Anonymous Wed Apr 28 21:33:29 2021 No.7699959

>>7699890
Amstrad? Doit. Actually what's more puzzling to me is how Germany has this image as a tech powerhouse yet never developed a native personal computer industry. Even the GDR used to have one, they made lots of Spectrum and Apple II clones for the Eastern Bloc. But West Germany? Nothing. Prior to PCs taking over Commodore had an almost unchallenged monopoly in Germany.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 28 21:42:52 2021 No.7699984 >>7699959 I assumed the one on top was some other Sinclair meme. Did people even buy Amstrad?

Anonymous Wed Apr 28 21:46:38 2021 No.7699997

>>7699984
It was a nice little machine that could do productivity software well with its 80 column text, CP/M support, and those funny 3" floppy disks. As well it had proper monitors (either a color RGB or a monochrome) instead of fuzzy TV RF. The cassette was kinda crap though because of its fixed bitrate which meant fastloaders weren't possible with it.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 28 23:46:11 2021 No.7700253 >>7698926 >Pool and Azure Bonds do not support a mouse. I didn't play PoR or CotAB on DOS, but I played POD. If mouse was available, I didn't need it. Everything other than the copy protection stuff, I did just fine with the numpad.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 29 00:35:38 2021 No.7700362 File: 1.28 MB, 4000x3000, 1619670938806.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Has a sound chip designed by Robert Yannes, who also created the SID chip. Literally 15 channels of audio. Made the music industry seethe. [

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 29 00:47:02 2021 No.7700390 >>7700362 >Literally 15 native games ftfy

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 29 01:26:55 2021 No.7700474 >>7700253 No you don't need it, but it does make it 100% easier.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 29 01:37:02 2021 No.7700496 >>7700390 >>Literally 15 native games >ftfy But it was used as an SNES development kit.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 29 03:05:11 2021 No.7700683 >>7700496 So were many other things. What difference do you imagine such cope makes? If you're the tard who thinks it had literally 15 channels of audio and made anything except people who bought it seethe the answer is obviously brain damage.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 29 04:28:28 2021 No.7700845 >>7700362 What music actually took advantage of the IIgs though? Amigafags had plenty of mods and AtariSTfags had Cubase.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 29 04:49:56 2021 No.7700880 >>7700362 Dude, I fucking LOVE the IIGS. It was a neat platform with some fun games. Unfortunately, it was hamstrung by its 2.8MHz CPU because Steve Jobs didn't want it cannibalizing Macintosh sales. One more reason to hate that guy, IMO.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 29 10:17:00 2021 No.7701442 >>7700880 Steve Jobs is a mixed bag to me overall.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 29 11:54:19 2021 No.7701701 >>7698189 If you had the tech/synths or the money to buy it. For the lower budget creator Amiga was the better choice. Watch here (bit long, but worth it): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9MXYZh1jcs

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 29 20:41:44 2021 No.7703260 File: 141 KB, 810x1080, Secret.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] We are very pleased. It arrived today! Going for a full set.

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 30 02:52:39 2021 No.7704196 >>7692324 Turrican is atrociously bad. It's so full of design flaws that japanese games in similar genres had already solved years prior. Manfred Trans was a great coder but an absolutely SHIT game designer.

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 30 02:59:25 2021 No.7704216 >>7704196 lal >enemies are random junk flying around >screen doesn't scroll unless you're hugging the edge of it >no health bar >confusing, maze-like levels

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 30 03:24:06 2021 No.7704267 >>7704196 This. Luv me 'miger but this game is seriously overrated. A number of great bits to it but overall it's complete shite.

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/vr/ - Retro Games