The water level meme in retro games

[Anonymous No.7447584]

>*interrupts the flow and fun of the game just to arbitrarily force you through slow, floaty nonsense out of mindless tradition and nothing more*

Serious question: Who the fuck actually enjoys water levels? And why did devs back then constantly shove it into their games even when they didn't need it? Half the time it just completely changes the rules of the game for a portion of the game that feels like a slog. Aside from some things like atmosphere or good music what do water levels even accomplish?

[Anonymous No.7447596]

Are there any games set in the water that have dry levels?

[Anonymous No.7447606]

Cause it's just an easy and obvious theme to do to make a game have varied environments. Though, they like ice levels usually aren't fun for the player, but sometimes they do them in fun ways.

[Anonymous No.7447627]

>>7447584
They work if there's a proper transition between dry land and water mechanics.

From those examples, SMB and DKC got it eventually right in the following games (DKC2 and SMB3)
The 3D ones are hardly a problem (it's just a new form of "terrain" to navigate).
TMNT is the most grievous example because, though not as hard as it's memed as, you do get handed a set of 100% different controls for a tightly timed mission out of the door. It's just bad game design however you look at it.

[Anonymous No.7447660]

>>7447584
Water levels suck when they make you really slow(muh realismo). If you can go fast they're fine, plus Mario nes ones like in OP are very aesthetic.

[Anonymous No.7447672]

>>7447584
What about Ecco the Dolphin? The entire game is a water level.

[Anonymous No.7447708]

>>7447672
That game gave me ptsd

[Anonymous No.7447770]

>>7447596
Ecco Tides of Time

[Anonymous No.7447774]

>>7447584

I unironically enjoy water levels. I find the water and swimming in the water pretty pleasant, and I like to explore underwater areas. Water also has a very good atmosphere to it. Also most of the swimming controls or underwater movement in many games I find to be mostly decent, with a few rare exemptions.

[Anonymous No.7447775]

>>7447584
Most if them suck but I unironically like Down the Tubes. It is a whole different mechanic but it's not slow and is tense and challenging.

[Anonymous No.7447779]

>>7447584
Swimming in Tomb Raider was a lot of fun to me.

[Anonymous No.7447796]

they're good when they retain some form of dynamic momentum and don't just become the equivalent of shootemups in terms of handling. mario is a good example of how to not make them seem boring compared to the normal gameplay.

[Anonymous No.7447804]

>>7447606
>Though, they like ice levels usually aren't fun for the player, but sometimes they do them in fun ways.

FUCK. YOU.

Ice levels are almost universally 11/10 under-appreciated diamonds in the rough. They are usually late-game and serve to test the player's platforming abilities to the max. Slippery ground is a normal and natural extension to platforming mechanics (in a way that swimming underwater is not).

I would say that slippery ground should be used roughly as much as slopes, and even used more frequently than gimmicks like springboards and bumpers in platforming games.

[Anonymous No.7447806]

Fcking Dino Crisis 2

[Anonymous No.7447807]

>>7447584
but all the levels in your screenshot are fine? I mean the TMNT one kinda sucks, but it doesn't suck harder than the rest of the game.

[Anonymous No.7447809]

>>7447770
>dry level
>sand music starts playing
https://youtu.be/1aFUkqFiloA

[Anonymous No.7447810]

The worst type of water gaming is when you're timed on air. Because then it's automatically stressful, and you'll be rushing and constantly going back up for air.

[Anonymous No.7447817]

>>7447584
>getting filtered by water levels
wew lad

[Anonymous No.7447818]

>>7447810
>game about running around fast speed top gear
>half the game takes place in water flavoured honey
kill me

[Anonymous No.7447829]

>>7447596
Stafy

[Anonymous No.7447868]

Fuck water levels and the added stress of drowning and the fetish it gave me.

[Anonymous No.7447869]

>water level
>slow burn

[Anonymous No.7448094]

>>7447584
Water in the first Wario Land is alright

[Anonymous No.7448115]

>>7447584
>Who the fuck actually enjoys water levels?
I do, and they make dry levels feel faster. Contrast, bitch

[Anonymous No.7448149]

Water levels done the right way: you can swim.

Water levels done the wrong way: movement is the same as on land, you just move slower.

[Anonymous No.7448495]

>>7447868

[Anonymous No.7448509]

>>7447584
>interrupts the flow
what flow?

[Anonymous No.7448534]

The only water level I genuinely dislike is in Mega Man X5. Oh, and maybe the sewer/aqueduct part of Castlevania:Circle of the Moon, that whole area sucks balls.
Aside from that, water levels don't bother me at all, some of them are interesting and fun even if it changes the way the game plays a little bit.

[Anonymous No.7448560]

>>7447779
I came here to post this. It's shocking how well they nailed swimming and underwater navigation despite the fact that they were one of the first to do so in 3D. Quake is another game from the same year that also got it right (finding that underwater building in Grisly Grotto for the first time and exploring it blew my mind back then). OP doesn't seem to agree but I found SM64 to be pretty good as well, I liked how you could swim faster if you timed your strokes properly, I still haven't played Banjo Kazooie for some reason.

>>7447774
I love OoT but I hate how they handled underwater sections. The Water Temple would have been my favorite in the game if they allowed you to swim Tomb Raider style. The constant equipping and un-equipping of iron boots was tedious and didn't even make any sense (boots are in his inventory, he floats, boots are on his feet, now he sinks, wut?). The addition of the Zora mask in Majora was one of the best improvements that game made to OoTs gameplay.

[Anonymous No.7448589]

>>7447804
>They are usually late-game and serve to test the player's platforming abilities to the max.
The issue is exactly that theyre not testing the skills youve learned, theyre forcing you to suddenly adapt to a new physics model that goes against what youve learned.

[Anonymous No.7448590]

>>7447584
I only dislike water levels because the devs decide to give you such a limited amount of air to where you can't enjoy just swimming around.

[Anonymous No.7448595]

>only mario game without water level
>universally praised as best mario game
really activates the almonds

[Anonymous No.7448597]

If you actually have a free range of movement in the water, the level can be decent - look Crash 3, or Spyro 2-3, hell even watery parts in old Tomb Raiders

Bullshit occurs when water controls are either "you move slow as while having a moon jump" or "you constantly sink, so better spam jump button to float".

[Anonymous No.7448705]

>>7448597
It seems to me like 3D games handled water sections far far better than 2D. Are there any 2D games that did the mechanic justice instead of being that section you want to get over with as soon as possible to get back to the stuff that's actually fun?

[Anonymous No.7448756]

Ristar has good water levels.

[Anonymous No.7448764]

>>7447584
Water puzzles are different from just a water movement area without puzzle. Water puzzles are absolute kino. Your inability to recognize the distinction and instead lump puzzle areas into the same group as slog areas is telling on yourself.

[Anonymous No.7448947]

>>7448705
From 2D games, albiet no retro, I can think only about Rayman Origins / Legends. Those had some nice water levels with free movement.

[Anonymous No.7448951]

>>7448705
>Are there any 2D games that did the mechanic justice
Super Mario Bros.

[Anonymous No.7448960]

>>7448560
>didn't even make any sense (boots are in his inventory, he floats, boots are on his feet, now he sinks, wut?)
Embarrassing AVGN tier criticism

[Anonymous No.7449107]

>>7448589
Would you not mind them as much if they started out far easier in order for you to get used to them, tutorial style? Like for example you land on slippery surface, you slide but there is a large block at the end that stops you from falling off the edge to death, allowing you to practice and get a feel for the slip physics?

[Anonymous No.7449119]

>>7447584
360 movement is the answer. In water you can move around on two axis at once, which is masterfully exploited in SMB3 where you have to dodge all the electric fishes as the stage auto scrolls.

[Anonymous No.7449258]

jolly roger bay and aquatic ambiance were great tho

[Anonymous No.7449365]

>series has some of the best water levels because it's not extremely intrusive
>throws all that out the window in pic related for extremely fickle swimming controls
What the FUCK were they thinking?

[Anonymous No.7449550]

>>7447584
but what about timed, underwater, escort missions?

[Anonymous No.7449563]

>>7447584
DKC actually had good water levels though since there was no worry about running out of air, and the swimming mechanics were well implemented.

[Anonymous No.7449579]

>>7449365
Trying to find ways to innovate the gameplay to stop it from becoming stale?

I'd have preferred games with new ideas over the NES-callbacks 9 and 10 were.

[Anonymous No.7449717]

water levels are the highlight of spyro games

[Anonymous No.7449752]

>>7447584
I like water levels though

[Anonymous No.7449753]

>>7448595
>universally praised
>best mario game

*laughs in SMB3*

[Anonymous No.7449754]

>>7447818

I fucking hate the water level in sonic

[Anonymous No.7449867]

>>7449579
>i have reddit spacing

[Anonymous No.7449931]

>>7448589
>"a new physics model"

[Anonymous No.7449938]

>>7448595
you mean the one everyone hates and forgets it exists?

[Anonymous No.7450456]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFlw60KBny0

[Anonymous No.7450478]

I guess I'm the only person on the board who likes the water levels in Sonic games. Yes, all of them. Get better at the game losers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSKgprdDRTY

[Anonymous No.7450568]

>>7447818
>>7450478
I like the ones in Sonic 1

I'd rather platform than GOFAST. I am not good enough to defeat the Labyrinth Zone Robotnik tho.

[Anonymous No.7450574]

>>7450568
For me that's the hardest boss in the game. Gotta focus when I get to it whereas most bosses you can beat with your brain on autopilot

[Anonymous No.7450579]

>>7450574
It is actually possible to destroy him right? Because I can pass him but not hit him enough to blow him up.

[Anonymous No.7450603]

>>7450579
Don't worry about hitting him. You're just supposed to keep jumping to the top level and then he flies away. iirc it's about 50 seconds of platforming

[Anonymous No.7451193]

>>7447584

water levels are based
OP is not based

[Anonymous No.7451639]

Even Starfox had a water level.

I thought it was a nice change of pace, and the N64’s native muddy textures really worked for the murky atmosphere of deep sea exploration.

[Anonymous No.7451729]

Water levels usually have the best music

[Anonymous No.7453545]

>>7447606
pic absolutely unrelated

[Anonymous No.7453562]

>>7449931
do you not understand that walkspeed=1 and walkspeed=0.2 are different physics models from the play point of view?

[Anonymous No.7453576]

AAAAAAAAAAA

[Anonymous No.7453636]

I love water levels because I love water and the sea and the little fishies that swim around and the crabbies that go snip snip like the fucking faggot surgeon that cut my dick because my parents fell for a regurgitated jewish meme

[Anonymous No.7453692]

SMW has phenomenal water levels
In general I never got the hate for them

[Anonymous No.7453698]

>>7453636
Sorry for your peepee

[Anonymous No.7453718]

>>7453698
Don't be sorry, be glad your peepee isn't mutilated

[Anonymous No.7453762]

>>7447584
the Donkey Kong Country games I feel had a pretty good grasp on making them work well, same with Crash Bandicoot 3

>>7447810
I kinda liked the variation on the concept we saw in DKC2 with the water levels where the water was boiling hot and you had to cool it down before you could progress, helps that they were usually pretty good about not having the spacing between the animal buddies who did it be too long