technologies that should never have been made

[Anonymous No.7443929]

texture filtering

[Anonymous No.7443947]

>>7443929
I never even played this fucking game because the screenshots that were out used left and i thought it looks like the game doesn't have any fucking textures. Friggin grey clay looking weapons

[Anonymous No.7443958]

>>7443947
I'm playing it right now, and you're mostly right,but it's still really good.

[Anonymous No.7443981]

>>7443929
Is this why the PC version of Metal Gear Solid looks straight up ass?

[Anonymous No.7444013]

>>7443929
As a kid I didn't know what OpenGL was so I thought all the screenshots of this were false advertising

[Anonymous No.7444034]

>>7443958
can you not turn it off these days?

[Anonymous No.7444195]

>>7443929
The textures in Quake 2 were designed around being filtered.

[Anonymous No.7444213]

>>7443929
Quake 2's textures are so ugly that it looks better without filtering.

[Anonymous No.7444219]

>>7444195
>>7444213
Now fight!
Morrowind's textures were designed around filtering too, it makes me sad because you can turn filtering off in OpenMW and everything looks really crisp except the landscape which gets super blocky.

[Anonymous No.7444246]

>>7444213
I'll admit the enviromental textures look good in Q2 unfiltered, but the weapon textures look awful unfiltered.

[Anonymous No.7444674]

>>7444195
you can't say that as if it has any meaning when op pic shows that they look much better when they aren't filtered.

>>7444246
the terrible smooth blurry grey blobs that are the players weapon in Quake 2 (with opengl smoothing) made the whole game look like a joke.

When I saw screenshots like this *at the time* I thought ugh - I couldn't believe people were acting like Quake was some good franchise. It's not till I saw Quake 1 in software mode later that I got what the appeal even was

[Anonymous No.7444696]

>>7444674
(and on the enemy too - what the fuck were then thinking) you gonna try to seriously tell me the smoothed looks anything but shit in comparison to this

[Anonymous No.7444698]

>>7444674
>>7444696
compare the fucking feet

[Anonymous No.7444704]

>>7443981
Also the fact that it renders at the wrong resolution. MGS looks best at 240p

[Anonymous No.7444708]

>>7444674
actually here's a direct comparison without the gayass smother/down sampler for hardware rendering

[Anonymous No.7444709]

>>7444213
I like Quakes filtering. It made it different from every other game at the time.

[Anonymous No.7445992]

>>7443929
>threads that should never have been made
this one.

[Anonymous No.7447237]

>>7443981
You can use the software renderer in the GOG release, possibly the same for the original release too. It's best played in Mednafen or in original hardware anyway, since a few PSX exclusive hardware tricks are absent and some of the songs are lower quality and or shortened in length due to development issues.

[Anonymous No.7447301]

Looks better with filtered textures than without. This gay hipsterism needs to go away already.

[Anonymous No.7447313]

>>7444674
No one's bitching about grey blobs in 1997 zoomer, this looked amazing

[Anonymous No.7447424]

>>7443929
>texture filtering
They just work.
>>7444195
Textures look better when filtered in emus too.

[Anonymous No.7447440]

>>7444034
You could always just play in software mode. But yes, with modern ports you can disable texture filtering even in GL mode.

[Anonymous No.7448056]

>>7447313
97 was after goldeneye was out with proper graphics
>>7447301
>hipsterism
I hated this shit in 97 when i first saw games, not now because im nostalgic for muh pixels

[Anonymous No.7449886]

[Anonymous No.7449908]

>>7449886
do you happen to have a software mode comparison? because i think what you've got there is hardware mode with tex filtering turned off which isn't as beautiful as software mode (just going by a pic of the same scene as your top example that i saw somewhere which was sw mode)

"Texture filtering" could possibly be of some use if it was gaussian and not the god-forsaken linear, doing a kind of CRT-like effect instead of just being a blur. But I believe that requires almost every pixel in the texture to be added in to each screen pixels calculation completely infeasibly.

[Anonymous No.7449920]

>>7443929
>technologies that should never have been made
All of them.

[Anonymous No.7449958]

[Anonymous No.7449978]

>>7449958
the ONLY thing that looks better is the fucking writing because it was obviously designed to be filtered. Everything else is either same or worse. The gun just looks like texturemode off

[Anonymous No.7450008]

>>7443929
For starters, there is no such thing as “filtering” per se. Each time you draw some bitmap that is not 1:1 corresponding to screen pixels, after any transform, you have to resample it. And you can't “just resample” something, you have to choose a filter function, directly or indirectly. See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_scaling
which is an application of
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filter_(signal_processing)#The_transfer_function
If 3D geometry is texture-mapped (as opposed to, say, procedurally generated), textures have to be resampled. This includes “no filtering” in most simple nearest neighbor mode, as it is also a very specific filter choice. There is no filter that can be used everywhere, both because of intended visual results, and technical performance.

A different issue is that you are looking at the modern stabilized 3D pipeline output, probably in a resolution that is too high for game assets, while first families of 3D accelerators had simpler and rougher texturing options, with occasional bugs, which sacrificed quality for speed. 16 bit mode dithering probably added some variation, too. Neither they had enough memory and performance to simulate certain properties of software rasterizer with higher resolution textures. If you read old in-depth reviews of accelerators, you'll see that they often discuss which one mangles the result in more pleasing way. Even though the fps numbers were not that different from software rendering, and aren't that good by today's standards, main point of hardware rasterization was dynamic lighting, totally out of the software reach.

So you are essentially making your own “HD mod” out of the game, then complain that it's shit. Use proper resolutions and graphical settings for the era.

Accelerated Quake II was quite soapy, though. I guess that if Quake I stressed full 3D world with dynamic interactions “as in real life”, Quake II stressed dynamic lights “as in real life”.

[Anonymous No.7450026]

>>7450008
jesus blahbidy bloo! all of what you wrote is semantic digression and rambling, because it's simply the case that left pic in op looks worse than right

[Anonymous No.7450031]

>>7449920
based caveman

[Anonymous No.7450032]

>>7450026
TL;DR You don't understand what you are talking about.

[Anonymous No.7450049]

>>7450032
man that arrogance. your list of wikifacts is pathetic.
>durr let me link to transfer function because what are the chances my interlocutor isn't an electrical engineer who knows that that isn't relevant and will just think it's some fancy knowledge i have
Sorry Harry Nyquist but it still looks shit at old resolutions: >>7449958

[Anonymous No.7450069]

>>7450049
Now turn around and see how GL_NEAREST turns everything in the distance into a moving pixel mess.

[Anonymous No.7450082]

>>7450069
i don't have quake but nobody said you can't use mipmaps or whatever. I assume you're trying to force the game into a broken mode, to disingenuously imply that games that didn't use bilinear vomit, i.e. all games before quake2, couldn't render things in the distance.

[Anonymous No.7450115]

>>7443929
LCDs

[Anonymous No.7450118]

>>7450115
Seriously.

[Anonymous No.7450125]

>>7443929
Absolute zoomer take

[Anonymous No.7450130]

>>7450115
>>7450118
CRT filters do not look like CRTs

[Anonymous No.7450137]

>>7450125
Mate goldeneye was out before quake 2, and going from that then looking at the shots on the box and in the mags of these fuckin worn-eraser guns - it was a clear nope at the time

[Anonymous No.7450140]

>>7450130
at least they can show you what the art is meant to look like.

[Anonymous No.7450142]

>>7448056
>goldeneye
>proper graphics

Fucking kek. And the N64 was the absolute worst machine, ever, or any kind, when it came to texture filtering being as it had to use ridiculously low res textures due to it's tiny amount of RAM and tiny cartridge sizes, so everything looked like smeared dog shit with colour tints. Yet you're somehow fine with that because you're pic related.

[Anonymous No.7450156]

>>7450115
>>7450118
Why do these look better?
Is it because my brain/imagination is filling in the negative space created by the small gaps between phosphors, making it appear like there's a more detailed image?

[Anonymous No.7450158]

>>7450115
>>7450118
I unironically like the pixelated versions better.

[Anonymous No.7450164]

>>7450142
well, i agree it has too much texture filtering but then quake 2 had 100x stronger filtering than that so, i don't know what point you could be trying to make

[Anonymous No.7450169]

>>7450156
no it's because the art was never meant to be flat squares. each pixel was meant to be a glowing point that has a bright middle and a falloff out to the sides. you drew by the blended sum of those glows. then someone came along and acted as if the sum of glows could be replaced with contained flat colored boxes, ridiculously

[Anonymous No.7450171]

Why don't they just make high refresh rate, aperture grille LCD displays that display 240p in the same way old crt's do? I mean, is this impossible?

[Anonymous No.7450176]

>>7450169
That makes sense.
Is the only way to simulate that effect an OLED display with very high pixel density?

[Anonymous No.7450179]

>>7450140
So do other filters that don't look like you are watching through a screen door.

[Anonymous No.7450182]

>>7450176
i won't weigh in on that. i never tried to simulate it.

[Anonymous No.7450185]

>>7450179
>other filters
oh yeah looking good dude

[Anonymous No.7450192]

>>7450185
>Use this shitty filter that doesn't look remotely like what it's trying to look like and not a filter that accomplishes the same thing without making half your screen black.

[Anonymous No.7450195]

>>7450192
i don't really get your gripe man. you're saying the settings are off so the inter-pixel space is a little bit dark? so post some fuckin photo of that art on your crt so we can see if it makes any difference

[Anonymous No.7450217]

>>7443929
Texture filtering looks fine -even good- on high resolution textures on high poly models.

[Anonymous No.7450218]

>>7450195
My gripe is that looks a lot closer to using a current VR headset than the thing it's trying to emulate.

[Anonymous No.7450221]

>>7443929
>>7444195
>>7444213
>>7444674
>>7444696
if everyone could check it out the history of how the game was developed

Carmack had to over compress the game's textures compared to Beta screenshots due to video cards back then having issues with Q2's openGL rendering, id PC's back then were more powerful, and carmack's PC was still the SGI 1080p beast.

You could still use GL_nearest as option for Q2's textures
3dfx cards a slightly better filtering compression. compared to the default Open GL.
Also 3dfx cards which everyone used in the 90's Had Dithering which the CRT monitors used it like >>7450115 >>7450118
Donde's blog and even older screenshots at the archive has Q2 screenshots using 3dfx green scanline dithering

and a slight bonus, Q2 was made with higher resolution textures in mind, Q2 engine itself supports it out of box, but due to technical limitations of its time, and carmack caring more for engine upgrades, Q2 came to support TGA output after the source code was released and the community started to make source ports from it, also the game had to cut the monsters details and mesh, which is next pic


>>7450218
There it was a Quake 2 VR project MANY MANY years ago that used those rooms with reality augmented glasses, its easy to find the website on google, ol planetquake showed it once.

[Anonymous No.7450230]

>>7450221
most of those are at Q2Test, minus the better looking maiden model and the gladiator with a better looking face while filtered.

[Anonymous No.7450234]

>>7450218
can you prove it though or are you maybe just guessing

[Anonymous No.7450239]

>>7450234
You want proof I own a crt television and a vr headset?

[Anonymous No.7450310]

>>7450230
Iron Maiden is CUTE! :D

[Anonymous No.7450330]

>>7450239
demonstrate that a crt looks better than that shader close up with some art like that. because i think you might just be imagining it

[Anonymous No.7450356]

>>7450330
Here's is a picture of a crt, notice you don't see any fucking grid

[Anonymous No.7450364]

>>7450310
That right arm mesh irks me because the N64 and PS1 versions has the damn thing fixed and with a shoulderpad, the PC version is broken and no one ever cared to fix the tris model for years.

[Anonymous No.7450383]

>>7450356
This.

The problem is people are recreating the physical aspect of a CRT at too small a resolution, which scales up the CRT display methods. In real life, at proper viewing distance you don't see a grid (and also the color representation and blacks will be accurate, not blown out or warm like a lot of these filters).

To get a real CRT filter you'd have to design it with 4K resolution, and really only use one pixel for any line space, and then finely round of the tops and bottoms of the pixels, very subtle.

[Anonymous No.7450432]

>>7450356
fuck, do games actually look this good on trannytrons?

[Anonymous No.7450662]

Why don't games try out other filtering styles and instead go for the most generic and ugliest of all, the one that is like vaseline scrubbed all over the fucking screen

[Anonymous No.7451290]

>>7450356
>>7450383
ok so really all it is is that that guy with the comparisons needs to change the setting on his shader so the pixels bleed more into each other

[Anonymous No.7451713]

>>7450383
>the color representation and blacks will be accurate, not blown out or warm like a lot of these filters

Most plebs who make CRT filters are so fucking stupid that they base their filters on videos/photos of CRT TV's, rather than what an ACTUAL real-life CRT looks like in person. So as you mentioned, filters end up with fucked up colours and contrast, as seen here >>7450115

Which is very similar to the *photo* of a CRT here >>7450356

Pretty funny.

[Anonymous No.7451757]

>>7451713
they all come with a hundred settings. its just a matter of you the user putting it how you understand it should be.

[Anonymous No.7451786]

>>7451290
Or unironically just use a sacrilegious filter like supereagle or something.
>>7451713
Yeah, I've fucked with CRT effects on reshade or somesuch and they even have the fucking moire pattern that you absolutely cannot see in person. I'm suprised they don't have the rolling scanline thing that comes from slightly missmatched framerates on video recordings.
Photos and videos do not capture what CRTs look like very well or their migraine inducing brightness.

[Anonymous No.7451813]

>>7451786
>supereagle
you just showed that you have no understanding of how crt art was intended to look so, while you're right that black lines aren't there IRL, nobody should be listening to you complaining about shaders since you presumably are too stupid to figure out how to make the pixels bleed wider

[Anonymous No.7451817]

I mean make a thread for CRT vs shader too this isn't the topic

[Anonymous No.7451851]

>>7451813
I called it sacrilegious for a reason, and I'm not recommending supereagle specifically. It does a better job emulating the half pixel effect and doesn't completely fuck the image like your crt filter.

[Anonymous No.7451857]

>>7451817
>technologies that should never have been made
>CRT filters
It's on topic.

[Anonymous No.7451858]

>>7451851
>doesn't completely fuck the image
You sure about that?

[Anonymous No.7451872]

>>7451858
>No I want the one that looks like my monitor is covered with a mosquito net.

[Anonymous No.7452015]

Before lockdown there was an exhibition in carnaby street in London that had old coin-ups all on free play mode and the scanlines were prominent as fuck and looked fantastic. CRT TVs might not have them that visible with distance but arcades sure as fuck did and the art clearly designed around it.

[Anonymous No.7452020]

>>7451872
how about you fuck off with pretending that the two broken options are the only ones and simply wasting everyone's time

[Anonymous No.7452079]

>>7452020
All I've done is point out that crt filters don't look anything like crts and do look like shit and that there are existing filters that accomplish what they are aiming to do, better.
You're either a zoomer or a retroarch retard.

[Anonymous No.7452097]

>>7452079
>there are existing filters that accomplish what they are aiming to do, better.
oh ok it's been bait the whole time

[Anonymous No.7452147]

Tism aside, what CRT filter is generally "the best" at looking like a real CRT while having the correct interpretation of the pixel art?
I am aware that CRTs are technically 3D and a modern display can't keep up, but there has to be a best one, right?

[Anonymous No.7452208]

>>7452097
Stop being a buttmad zoomer.

[Anonymous No.7452247]

>>7450383
>very subtle.
This. I always turn most options off or lower them when using shaders.

[Anonymous No.7452328]

>>7450662
Unreal software rendering was never good

[Anonymous No.7452440]

>>7450356
>no HR logo
You could've just transcoded RGB to COMP on a consumer set and saved 600 dollars.

[Anonymous No.7452453]

>>7452440
It's not mine dude, I have some consumer trinitron from a thrift store. But it's in storage.

[Anonymous No.7452460]

>>7443929
bloom

[Anonymous No.7452470]

>>7452453
I'm actually just being a dickhead, pic related is my actual PVM, 14m2u. I think your picture is of a 20m2u.

[Anonymous No.7452494]

>>7449908
I dont think Thief ever had software mode. And disabling filtering wasnt really an option until an update like last year because before shadow and texture filtering were linked (so you'd get ugly blocky shadows).

[Anonymous No.7452501]

>>7450662
Soldier Of Fortune used Unreal-like detail textures. Looks good too.

[Anonymous No.7452541]

>>7452494
>>/vr/thread/S4956343#p4958897
There's a few other posts in the thread that also mention software mode. Thief 2 did not have software mode, however.

[Anonymous No.7452560]

>>7452494
it certainly did and you can google up some gorgeous images from it

[Anonymous No.7452671]

>>7452560
Which ones did you find? I looked up "Thief software render" and it's mostly from Thi4f and concept art.

[Anonymous No.7452687]

>>7450432
>trannytrons
please go outside or read a book or something

[Anonymous No.7452741]

>>7450432
See for yourself, this is 480i content on a 14m2u.

[Anonymous No.7452787]

>>7452671
put 'dark project'
but yeah some *really* nice screens, that really show how its like a world coming alive, are on the drive of someone who posts here but I have to go digging in the archive

[Anonymous No.7452803]

>>7452147
So, this isn't exactly an answer to your question, but there is an ntsc filter which aims to replicate composite artifacts. Some games used composite artifacting to generate extra colors and other effects I think.
It looks kinda shitty, but it looks shitty in the way that an old television would, so... sort of.

[Anonymous No.7452812]

>>7452803
yeah i don't see how that has anything to do with his question. some goobers like distortion for their nostalgia.. well okay

[Anonymous No.7452816]

>>7452803
That's kinda what I was looking for, I don't know if this is the one you were talking about but it does have that effect of looking higher res than the original pixel art was, without, well, being supereagle.

[Anonymous No.7452934]

>>7444674
did people ever think ID tech 3 was a good looking engine? the high contrast is pretty for about five minutes but compared to something like source 2? looks like ass.

[Anonymous No.7452939]

>>7452934
id tech 4*

[Anonymous No.7454014]

>>7452812
>looking like a real CRT while having the correct interpretation of the pixel art?
>So, this isn't exactly an answer to your question
Why can't zoomers into reading comprehension?
You still mad about your retroarch filter?

[Anonymous No.7454074]

>>7452687
gooot ya!
>>7452741
very n e a t
boy these things are expensive though, do you know any nice poorfag options?

[Anonymous No.7454778]

>>7452560
It definitely isn't gorgeous. More like a grainy mess with bad performance until modern processors can brute force it.

[Anonymous No.7455221]

>>7454074
Get a consumer trinitron and an RGB to COMP transcoder. It won't be nearly as good, but still great.

[Anonymous No.7456043]

>>7443929
>>7444674
>>7444696
I think it was because they implemented poorly the texture filtering and resolutions in opengl mode

[Anonymous No.7456057]

>>7450221
>>7450230
It's sad that there was never released an official high res textures patch for the game

[Anonymous No.7456106]

>>7456043
>I think it was because they implemented poorly the texture filtering and resolutions in opengl mode

OpenGL wasn't really established before the release of Quake II. OpenGL was originally crated as IRIXGL for Silicon Graphics machines. Some companies ported the API (under the name OpenGL) to various platforms to run specific hardware. Quake II and Quake I introduced OpenGL to IBM PC gaming with the MiniGL driver. In 2000, the Khronos Group was formed to handle OpenGL releases and version updates. Before this, OpenGL was inconsistent across different platforms.

[Anonymous No.7456153]

>>7456106
>Bleep bloop dumping History of OpenGL
Hey it's mr tangential again! formerly mr nyquist. How about you stop dumping irrelevant random info from your retarded robot memory bank, and fucking respond to people's specific propositions

[Anonymous No.7456157]

>>7456057
You can AI Upscale it using Lollipop or fatality nowadays, or use the Ruskie One that is still WIP on moddb, which is the updated hdpack using the original upscaled textures from the days of Q2Evolved.

[Anonymous No.7456280]

>>7456153
>Hey it's mr tangential again! formerly mr nyquist. How about you stop dumping irrelevant random info from your retarded robot memory bank, and fucking respond to people's specific propositions

I thought I was responding. People were responding that the filtering and textures options were handled poorly. Well, yeah, Quake 1 and II were like the first games to use OpenGL. There were no real standards for OpenGL between different drivers.

[Anonymous No.7456296]

>>7443929
blurriness is a result of too-low resolution texture maps, not filtering.

texture filtering is simply more accurate sampling based on the texture sample position rather than flooring to the nearest integer position.

[Anonymous No.7456351]

>>7456296
shut the fuck up idiot, the comparison in the OP is directly from flicking the filter on and off, not loading higher res textures.

You and a guy above don't seem to understand. Just because you read some 90s fad point of view in your high school days that linear filtering is "more accurate" doesn't make that true or real or make it good.

It's like someone from the 2000s saying fake HDR that blows out the whole image for 4 seconds everytime you move the camera is "more accurate modelling" of the eye or some shit. Yeah it's better at achieving some arbitrary idea of what's supposed to end up on screen, which isn't a tasteful or visually appealing one

[Anonymous No.7456368]

this guy >>7456296 will say that the right is "more accurate" lmao

[Anonymous No.7456373]

Reminder that q2 was primarily a multiplayer game and everyone used hi vis paks and if you were naughty, nose paks

[Anonymous No.7456410]

>>7456296
Quake 2 base textures are low res, but community after release managed to make some real good looking stuff after it that looked real good filtered.

Xatrix Q2 assets are a good example of nice looking textures filtered.

>>7456373
Donde's archive says otherwise and i blame polycount and other people back then to shit some good lookin and retarded stuff

[Anonymous No.7456419]

>>7443929
quake 2's textures were designed around being filtered and most of the weapon models will look like shit unfiltered due to poor UV mapping

[Anonymous No.7456467]

>>7456419
Depends on how well done the texture are, Q2 had its limits due to pc limitations of its time
Its something that a guy at doom was doing, the new monster and gun textures are nice

[Anonymous No.7456846]

what the fuck happened?

[Anonymous No.7456974]

>>7456368
It's technically more accurate, that doesn't necessarily mean better, or that you have to prefer it.

>>7456351
I'm not saying that OP's image has higher resolution textures on the left, but rather that the large texels on the left, as well as the blurriness on the right are a result of low-resolution textures.

> Just because you read some 90s fad point of view in your high school days that linear filtering is "more accurate" doesn't make that true or real or make it good.

It's not a "fad point of view", it's just fact. Rounding to integer texel coordinates isn't based on any mathematics or principle other than being easier to optimize in software renderers and early 3d hardware.. Mixing the closest texels based on sub-texel position is never going to be "perfect", and it does look like shit with low-res stuff, but it is more accurate.

[Anonymous No.7456979]

>>7456846
The difference here looks like more than just filtering, the left has ripples and stuff I don't see on the right.

[Anonymous No.7457013]

>>7456419
look at the picture, dummy

[Anonymous No.7457018]

>>7456974
>It's technically more accurate
accurate to what exactly? please explain.

[Anonymous No.7457036]

>>7456974
>based on any mathematics or principle
Oh it's you, the fucking high school dropout wannabe engineer guy. Shut the fuck up since you are just the definition of a sperg.

You aren't a proper human being so you don't understand the difference between what's intended to be evoked by graphics, and the tool of doing it. In the MGS example, the polys, pixels texels resolution etc are put together specifically to create a look. To make it look a certain way. But to you, born with your brain wrong, what you want it to see the polygons 'more clearly'. To see the through the effect, to its components. This is pure retardation. It's exactly the same as saying that a film should be interpolated to 60 fps and brightened *so that we can see the makeup is makeup*. *So that we can discern that the set is just a set*

I want you to never post again, okay?

[Anonymous No.7457038]

>>7456467
>a guy at doom
Can't quite work out what that means

[Anonymous No.7457042]

>>7456846
How can i make software work on windows 10?

[Anonymous No.7457046]

>>7457036
Based contempt poster.

[Anonymous No.7457062]

>>7457036
Are you referring to some regular poster?
I'm not a high school dropout or much of a regular poster on here.

> In the MGS example, the polys, pixels texels resolution etc are put together specifically to create a look

Yeah, that's one case in which nearest neighbor filtering can work better.

>>7457018
It's probably better to say that it's more accurate as long as you're not trying to treat a texture as a kind of pixel art, like ps1 games would generally do.

[Anonymous No.7457073]

This thread made me feel old.

Quake 2's textures are blurry up close because they're 64x64 pixels instead of 2048x2048 (and even higher) in modern games. That's just how the games looked back then.

Disabling texture filtering in old games (including even emulated N64) is a zoomer hipster thing. Nobody obsessed over crunchy pixels back then, the filtered look was always preferred provided you had the hardware for it.

[Anonymous No.7457074]

>>7457042
you mean for hl1? right click on it on steam and select properties, then paste this into "launch options"
-w 800 -h 600 -software
you can try a higher resolution if you want, but chances are its gonna run like shit
if you don't want it to be a blurry mess, use a CRT of some scaling software like IntegerScaler

[Anonymous No.7457085]

>>7457074
FUCK, typo
or some scaling software like IntegerScaler**

[Anonymous No.7457093]

>>7457074
I mean the WON version.

[Anonymous No.7457103]

>>7457062
answer the actual question
>accurate to what?
or do you now know what accurate means?

[Anonymous No.7457104]

>>7457036
>I am intimately familiar with the art direction of MGS

[Anonymous No.7457105]

>>7457073
stupid fucking nigger look at the OP pic.
Right = unfiltered/nearest neighbor. Clear details like wear, grime, components of the assembly
Left = the SAME texture fucked up by the filter so none of the art is meaningful, gun is now just a smudgy eraser.

Fuck your retarded comment

[Anonymous No.7457106]

>>7457093
same thing but in your hl1 shortcut

[Anonymous No.7457114]

>>7457104
That's not implied - that's just obvious but if you want i can go and find the fucking quote where the PS1 artist told the PC port people to fuck off with upscaling the textures because the blockiness is part of the way you're supposed to see it

[Anonymous No.7457124]

>>7457114
Oh, if you have an actual source on that, then I retract my statement.
But, in general, just because something turns out a particular way, doesn't mean that's what was intended.

[Anonymous No.7457131]

>>7457105
Stupid fucking zoomer, noone pretended that Quake 2 was le picasso of pixel art back then. Software renderer resulted in massive aliasing and shimming all over the place and didn't even support any of the fancy lighting, it was literally only included as a failsafe for people without GPU's. And it was dropped when Quake 3 rolled around only 2 years later.

Nobody fucking thought "oh noes why did they invent GPU's to make games look ugly" back then. Literally everyone who had a GPU played their games in OpenGL/D3D. None of my friends used Half-Life's software renderer or any console commands to disable OpenGL features. The smooth and clean filtered look was a huge breakthrough.

[Anonymous No.7457140]

>>7457103
This doesn't apply in the case of treating a texture map as pixel/texel art, but essentially the grid of a texel map is not a fundamental aspect of the texture, and just an artifact of how it's stored. Nearest neighbor filtering makes the texel grid of a lower resolution texture obvious, which is a visual inaccuracy.

[Anonymous No.7457167]

>>7457105
Stupid fucking zoomer, noone pretended that Quake 2 was le picasso of pixel art back then. Software renderer resulted in massive aliasing and shimmering all over the place and didn't even support any of the fancy lighting, it was literally only included as a failsafe for people without GPU's. And it was dropped when Quake 3 rolled around only 2 years later.

Nobody fucking thought "oh noes why did they invent GPU's to make games look ugly" back then. Literally everyone who had a GPU played their games in OpenGL/D3D. None of my friends used Half-Life's software renderer or any console commands to disable OpenGL features. The smooth and clean filtered look was a huge breakthrough.

[Anonymous No.7457178]

>>7457124
Are you really fucking saying this in the context of the absolute renowned, universally admired, mindblowing result that is the look of MGS on the ps1 vs the horror shown in the pc version above?

anyway here's your quote,
>Two lessons learned from it - We've put much better high-res textures for the eyes (hired someone from Texas to do it for us), when we got the idea rejected by Hideo himself (by the phone), he told us (through the interpretter) that the game during normal game-play did not have any eye-movement, so higher-res textures would look like crap, while with a blurry texture your own eyes won't see it as a problem - it's really sometimes LESS is better.

context specific but you can see how
>while with a blurry texture your own eyes won't see it as a problem - it's really sometimes LESS is better.
applies to the entire rest of the tools of resolution, texturing etc. Each of these things is obviously designed for working with the others- low res hides low poly, blocky textures fill in 'geometry' in place of polys etc.

[Anonymous No.7457194]

>>7457140
So to you there is an platonic artistic intention "the texture" and a bilinear smoothing of a drawing is more accurately reaching that intention than a quantised drawing (the actual texture). That's only the case if the artist expects it and works with that which everyone is saying was the case with quake 2, even though it clearly wasn't because we can see that details were drawn on guns and enemies that are completely erased by the filter

[Anonymous No.7457204]

>>7457167
You just pretended I said things I never said lol. I don't care what people thought? I can see that the texture in the OP looks good and has appropriate (clearly intended) details, that are erased by the filter. (which also looks like an eraser lol).

Why try to tell me that the software mode has "other problems" as if that's got anything to do with my argument? Especially why would you tell me "and we knew that".. who the fuck cares?

[Anonymous No.7457225]

just to be clear I'm not hating on either of the renderers, I just want to know why the fuck the ripples are gone in opengl mode, it has nothing to do with texture filtering btw

[Anonymous No.7457230]

texture filtering mattered a lot more on a 640x480 CRT

[Anonymous No.7457236]

>>7457178
So you have an ambiguous language-barriered 3rd-hand quote from from some one involved with a port and not even on the actual development?
And it doesn't even support your own argument.

[Anonymous No.7457246]

>>7457167
>back then. Literally everyone who had a GPU played their games in OpenGL/D3D.

Earliest 3D accelerator cards used their own proprietary drivers. Like Glide, S3, Matrox, Power VR. Early versions of DX were rough. OpenGL wasn't a thing on desktop PC's until Quake 1 and 2. I remember way back when John Carmack would reportedly get into heated debated with Bill Gates over OpenGL vs Direct3D API. John Carmack was huge on pushing OpenGL. But yeah, there was a push for higher framerates, better resolutions and cleaner image quality, non-wobbly textures. PC's CRT monitors also supported much higher resolutions and framerates, and had an infinity cleaner image with VGA than most other video cables. PC devs weren't really worried about how a game would look on any one specific PC set-up.

[Anonymous No.7457263]

>>7457236
you just have to be trolling or unless you don't understand that your own claim is that the horrible, hated, pc version's look is closer to what they intended

[Anonymous No.7457280]

>>7450383
1440 res is plenty and the monitors will be better quality in all non resolution respects.

[Anonymous No.7457292]

>>7457263
My claim is that you are talking out of your ass and your own source is counter to your claim.
You say the PC version looks worse and I don't even disagree, but the person you reference for how it should look made the version you think is wrong.
>while with a blurry texture your own eyes won't see it as a problem
That isn't talking about texture filtering, and if anything, is in favor of them, because the filtered texture is definitely blurry.

[Anonymous No.7457382]

>>7456846
A water effect that is easy to make is included in software render code. A water effect that is easy to make is included in hardware render code.

[Anonymous No.7457464]

>>7443929
Works well with textures >1024x1024.
Works like shit with low res textures

It all comes down to how you use it

[Anonymous No.7457650]

>>7457105
The graybeards are trying to impart to you some fucking wisdom, kid. Back in the day we had blurry, low-resolution textures and we liked it. Not everything is your epic retro Minecraft pixelshit.

[Anonymous No.7457661]

>>7457650
wrong. In 97 i had halflife, with its beautiful software mode and ok hardware (which I thought was overall better but already thought it lost some of the depth or dynamic range or something of software, it looked a little washed out and too sparse) and remember seeing pics of Quake 2 with its smudge guns and thinking "ugh". It looked so bad i could only accept people were still playing it when HL existed, because they liked the story or something which must have carried over from quake 1

[Anonymous No.7457672]

>>7457650
>Back in the day we had blurry, low-resolution textures
true, it's really beyond the hardware capability back then to have detailed textures, so anyone claiming otherwise is a liar.

>>7457661
>halflife
shut up, kid

[Anonymous No.7457689]

>>7457650
>>7457672
No shit they were low res, nobody's saying they were high res unless it's a strawman, but they weren't blurry until they were. Plenty of games were designed for their textures not to be filtered.

[Anonymous No.7457710]

>>7457689
>No shit they were low res, nobody's saying they were high res unless it's a strawman, but they weren't blurry until they were. Plenty of games were designed for their textures not to be filtered.

Pretty sure Unreal Engine 1 supported a feature called "detailed textures", which is basically a "detail layer" that gets added overtop of the filtered textures and is only visible when viewed up close. Almost like a noise filter/ I know UT2003/2004 had this feature. I think the original Unreal and UT99 had it as well.

[Anonymous No.7457791]

>>7444219
Do you have pictures of unfiltered Morrowind? I'm curious as to how that looks now.

[Anonymous No.7457820]

High resolutions without commensurate increase in color depth, lightmap bit depth etc.
So you have a low-res game where everything is in harmony or you just pump up the res and now you can see all the horrid banding on smooth light/texture gradation and other horrors. The scene will also look empty because of the lack of detail that should be in a real scene with that pixel granularity.

[Anonymous No.7457956]

>>7457464
Do you understand how many years have passed before textures reached that size range?

[Anonymous No.7457964]

>>7457956
I didn't say anything about time period you cockmongling cumfaggot

[Anonymous No.7457984]

>>7457964
Do you understand that even today not all textures (or at least individual parts of texture maps) are that big? Should we un-filter them, too?

[Anonymous No.7458195]

>>7443929
Modems on consoles.

[Anonymous No.7458821]

>Zoomer revisionists now want one of the most demanded features of GPU's gone

Fuck off, texture filtering is objectively better in the majority of cases. The only exceptions are highly synthetic textures that align perfectly with the sampling grid.

[Anonymous No.7458825]

>>7457225
Procedural textures are a bitch on OpenGL 1.1, that's why.

[Anonymous No.7458904]

>FXAA
>Motion Blur
>bloom
>vignette (why do they even add this?)
>chromatic abberation
>any kind of blurring mechanic/filter (except some texture filters)

[Anonymous No.7458909]

>>7458904
Bloom is perfectly acceptable in moderation.

[Anonymous No.7458916]

>>7458909
Does HDR always have bloom? Or does it also do more?

[Anonymous No.7458924]

>>7450356
THE SEGA CHADTURN

[Anonymous No.7458946]

>>7458916
Bloom is a nice addition to HDR, but it doesn't have to supplement it.
Bloom should never be done without HDR, that's what leads to blinding ugliness.

[Anonymous No.7458951]

>>7458916
HDR and BLOOM are fine as long as its subtle

[Anonymous No.7458957]

>>7458904
motion blur and bloom are fine if they don't have a retarded implementation
FXAA is actually useful at higher resolutions

[Anonymous No.7458985]

>>7458957

[Anonymous No.7459000]

>>7458904
>game doesn't offer you an option to turn off the post-processing shit

[Anonymous No.7459024]

>>7457791
Yes. This is enabled using
[General]
texture mag filter = nearest
texture min filter = nearest
The forum post (https://forum.openmw.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3239&sid=f73f51ec42d4c6ac2b2d93eb50a2fc15&start=10#p36124)) also mentions
texture mipmap = none
But I think that would make the sparkling effect more pronounced so I didn't do it.
It actually looks ok in your average scenario, like I said though Morrowind was definitely designed for texture filtering only.

[Anonymous No.7459035]

>>7459024
When it really falls apart is the terrain textures. They are super low res so that texture filtering would pick up the slack.

[Anonymous No.7459058]

>>7459035
WoW vanilla itself has texture filters up the ass since all game's assets uses one sided 64x64 textures or 128.

[Anonymous No.7459083]

>>7459000
It would be nice if games tell you what kind of effects they use when you enable post-procesing cause from what I heard it doesn't always have to be shitty filters and blurring

[Anonymous No.7460740]

>>7443929
Texture filtering is fine, unfiltered that texture is shit because of the mapping, the pixels should be squares from that angle not fucking diamonds.