/vr/ - Retro Games

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Anonymous Thu Feb 18 20:08:39 2021 No.7437058 [Reply] [Original]

Capcom Arcade Stadium (developed by M2) for Nintendo Switch uses BSD-licensed portions of MAME.
https://www.capcom-arcade-stadium.com/us/
https://twitter.com/SoftlistG/status/1362186724261076994
David "MameHaze" Haywood is considering replacing the most used GPL cores with BSD code.
>Basically the wider the scope of a piece of code, the more preferable it is to have it as BSD, and the more likely there is to be opposition to moving it in the opposite direction. For individual drivers, that are easy to remove / have no further scope, GPL is reasonable.
https://twitter.com/MameHaze/status/1362234316978323456

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 18 20:13:33 2021 No.7437065 File: 482 KB, 1080x876, feb1286202b12b79f84d374272af49d4.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 18 20:22:52 2021 No.7437095 >>7437058 If you're too fucking stupid to use MAME, you can always pay Capcom to play a handful of their games on a very shitty port of MAME for your Soiwitch.

Anonymous Thu Feb 18 20:31:12 2021 No.7437124

>>7437058
>Aron Giles
What an outrage. Capcom headquarters should be carbombed. If my cab had wheels I'd do it myself.

>uses BSD-licensed portions of MAME
And that's fine. :3

>Haze is considering replacing GPL with BSD
MAME went from a non-commercial license to combined GPL/BSD after consulting every dev who ever worked on it apart from one who died and another who vanished off the face of the earth. The choice was having your code as BSD, GPL or being removed altogether.

If you're a dev wanting to distribute MAME you only have to provide a compiler flag to build only the BSD parts. If MAME managed to eliminate the remaining GPL code and became pure BSD every shitty meme console could legally bundle it and we could get finally rid of RetroArch and its deadbeat author once and for all.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 18 20:34:11 2021 No.7437130 >>7437124 Standalone meme consoles can use GPL code just fine. Sony used an open-source emulator for the PlayStation Classic.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 18 20:46:23 2021 No.7437161 File: 1.28 MB, 2272x1704, rms_bottle.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >BSD NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO BUT IT'S NOT FREE LIKE GPL IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIS

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 18 22:21:14 2021 No.7437417 >>7437058 >valleybell and r.belmont GONE PLATINUM

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 18 22:26:12 2021 No.7437425 >>7437058 then how come the emulation sucks

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 18 22:28:24 2021 No.7437430 >>7437425 because MAME itself isn't perfect

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 18 22:36:59 2021 No.7437457 >>7437161 Write your own code if you don't like it. :^)

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 18 22:57:45 2021 No.7437495 wasn't mame shown to be really inaccurate compared to some mister fpga cores?

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 18 23:44:32 2021 No.7437583 >>7437058 Meme now not only perfectly emulates the timing of games but Q-Sound was perfectly emulator https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2xpL3Wg354

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 18 23:45:35 2021 No.7437586 >>7437058 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12aKLiorV7s&feature=emb_title

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 18 23:48:58 2021 No.7437593 >>7437058 M2 has also downloaded roms off the internet due to whoever own the source destroyed it, mostly with Sega. It's not the first time M2 did this.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 18 23:53:04 2021 No.7437607 >>7437593 Do you have a single fact to back that up? In any case, you don't need the source code for the things they usually do. You can dump the physical arcade game.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 19 00:09:57 2021 No.7437646 >>7437607 >You can dump the physical arcade game. Not the way M2 does it, they use the source code.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 19 00:14:28 2021 No.7437660 >>7437646 You know that more often than not they make emulated ports, right? They even said that native ports are not the norm and those only happened when the hardware was weak.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 19 00:17:26 2021 No.7437664 >>7437660 M2 likes to go beyond and above the rest.

Anonymous Fri Feb 19 00:18:17 2021 No.7437668

>>7437660

Want to know something ?
When they say they lost the Source Code, it's an excuse for not revealing certain intricacies of the contracts they make

>Ikegami Tsukinshi had previously signed a contract with Nintendo for the programming and manufacturing of arcade games, Donkey Kong included. During its development, Shigeru Miyamoto would produce various ideas and characters that Ikegami would then program into the game.

The contract gave Ikegami exclusive rights for manufacturing Donkey Kong arcade boards. Due to the unexpected demand for the game, Nintendo ignored the clause and produced arcade boards of its own.[1][2]

Nintendo later hired a company named Iwasaki Engineering to reverse-engineer Donkey Kong's code in order to produce a sequel.[1] Ikegami Tsushinki insisted that it had ownership of the Donkey Kong code and that Nintendo had violated several clauses of their contract.[2] Nintendo, meanwhile, insisted that it owned the code and filed an injunction against Ikegami Tsushinki in June 1983. In response, Ikegami filed a lawsuit for damages relating to Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Jr. The case lasted until 1990, when a court ruling decided that Nintendo did not own the arcade Donkey Kong code.[1] The two companies settled out of court.[1][2] Despite this, a port of the arcade version of Donkey Kong can be found in Donkey Kong 64's Frantic Factory level and the arcade version would ultimately see a standalone release as part of the Arcade Archives line in 2018.

Anonymous Fri Feb 19 00:20:56 2021 No.7437678

>>7437664
>For the most part, it’s all emulation. But when it comes to Sega’s taikan arcade games, there’s not enough power to fully emulate them, so we use a method called “code conversion.” We take the original assembly code and convert it entirely to C. It’s not really re-compiling the code, it’s a process more akin to translation. If it’s necessary, we’ll do whatever it takes to get it running. Besides, I think we tend to get bored if we just do things the same way over and over.
https://youtu.be/jc5DlOkOcU4?t=2824
They literally say that using the source code is the exception, not the norm.

Anonymous Fri Feb 19 00:24:50 2021 No.7437683

>>7437678
But more then not they have to reverse engineer the games as Sega was known for destroying the source code.
AM2 and Sonic Team (AM8) being the big exceptions as both Yu Suzuki and Yuji Naka were both known for taking the source code home with them to save it from the shredder.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 19 00:26:48 2021 No.7437689 >>7437683 If you make emulated ports, you only need a dump of the physical arcade game. No need to reverse engineer shit.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 19 00:27:52 2021 No.7437693 >>7437689 I believe that they modify the game code. For legal reasons

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 19 00:30:07 2021 No.7437695 >>7437693 >I believe Okay.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 19 00:42:38 2021 No.7437718 File: 74 KB, 725x521, mistercps.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7437058 mame BTFO

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 19 00:53:11 2021 No.7437742 >>7437664 >M2 likes to go beyond and above the rest. Usually, but apparently not this time. Was M2 really involved in this or did OP make that up?

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 19 01:02:55 2021 No.7437765 >>7437742 their only involvement was providing source materials for the games https://twitter.com/M2_game/status/1362325993289998337

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 19 01:10:36 2021 No.7437786 >>7437765 In other words, using their PS360 collection as the baseline for this.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 19 14:22:01 2021 No.7439435 >>7437495 MiSTer it's GPL, though.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 19 15:59:32 2021 No.7439794 >>7437718 WinKawaks FTW!

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 19 16:10:47 2021 No.7439831 >>7437124 >we could get finally rid of RetroArch and its deadbeat author once and for all. Hi MameHaze

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 19 16:12:10 2021 No.7439838 >>7437765 >>7437742 Even M2 is distancing itself from anything that has to do with western autist dramawhore emudevs, amazing.

Anonymous Fri Feb 19 16:37:18 2021 No.7439954

>>7437495
It's all on per core basis for MiSTer. Some recently made cores like Jotego's stuff are really pushing the emulation forward, while many other cores are barebones ports of old unrelated projects and don't hold a candle to MAME. For example Donkey Kong is vastly inferior to MAME's implementation.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 19 16:57:14 2021 No.7440040 >>7437664 >it must be true because my life in gaming said so you know what else thise austists said? that bluepoint is the m2 of remasters.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 19 17:03:21 2021 No.7440065 >>7437718 thats strange because all the cps1 games I play on mame arent running faster. Final Fight, Strider, King of Dragons etc are not running faster than in the arcade

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 19 17:07:17 2021 No.7440083 >>7440065 More or less slowdown is the usual result. MAME's slowdown accuracy is garbage and always has been.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 19 17:10:45 2021 No.7440094 >>7440083 If Mister is caught lying, can this cause legal problems against them? These accusations are serious

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 19 17:16:34 2021 No.7440110 >>7440094 What in the name of fuck are you talking about?

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 19 21:24:01 2021 No.7440882 >>7440083 which would result in the game not running af the correct speed which does not happen

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 19 21:27:51 2021 No.7440894 yo I'm tired of reading posts by retards who think emulating via fpga hardware is inherently more accurate than emulating via pc hardware you dummies are the biggest fucking rubes

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 20 02:00:26 2021 No.7441596 File: 31 KB, 400x400, haze.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7439831 >https://twitter.com/MameHaze/status/1362234316978323456 > Every single time

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 20 03:03:07 2021 No.7441703 >>7437683 Citation needed

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 20 03:08:45 2021 No.7441709 M2 did not work on this, it was done in-house by Capcom. M2 worked on the previous Arcade Cabinet that was on PS3 and I think 360. I'm not sure why everyone thinks M2 made this garbage.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 20 03:09:01 2021 No.7441710 >>7441596 haze went trans? how close is moogyguy to going trans? the groomers have really done a number on the autists

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 20 03:14:57 2021 No.7441720 File: 24 KB, 300x225, OC2d.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7437065 I care, I've been watching scene drama ever since there was a scene, you wouldn't understand, zoombie.

Anonymous Sat Feb 20 05:24:35 2021 No.7441935

>>7440065
If I remember rightly it was just a few edge cases, specifically SF2 Turbo/Hyper fighting which run too fast. I think this is "fixed" in some other emus (Kawaks? or some other old junk) by clocking the CPU too slow, which is wrong. The correct solution is to improve the CPU emulation and add more exact emulation of things like wait states. This hasn't been done, and would result in slower overall emulation if it was, which will no doubt result in much wailing of "fix it!!" from all the third worlders on old Raspberry Pis etc

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 20 08:37:53 2021 No.7442309 >>7441596 hopefully this means better emulation for zeus and neogeo 64 hardware

Anonymous Sat Feb 20 09:31:01 2021 No.7442445

>>7437058
> be capcom
> complains about piracy
> uses dumped ROMs found on the internet for their emulator
> can't use proper YM synth cores due to licensing issues
> can't hire anyone to make their own drivers
> multi billion dollar company btw
absolutely embarrassing

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 20 09:46:06 2021 No.7442484 >>7442445 >can't hire anyone to make their own drivers They definitely can, but that would mean making some effort.

Anonymous Sat Feb 20 12:36:14 2021 No.7442939
File: 57 KB, 276x259, 1607484373606.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>7437124
absolutely nothing stops companies from using the GPL code - apart from the requirement of making the improved code available. for example, if capcom knew the exact proper code to emulate certain stuff and improved upon MAME code, they're legally obliged to share it. game companies don't want to do it because they want to wrap the code around propertiary shit they bought to the point it's useless without those.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 20 12:54:10 2021 No.7442978 >>7442939 Not him. You cannot use GPL code for console and Steamworks releases, dumb GPLfaggot.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 20 15:57:36 2021 No.7443581 >>7442939 >>7442978 A tard and a trannymu walk into a board

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 20 16:10:10 2021 No.7443615 >>7442978 >Hedon >WRATH: Aeon of Ruin

Anonymous Sat Feb 20 16:59:32 2021 No.7443852

>>7443615
>Hedon
Steam ≠ Steamworks.
>WRATH: Aeon of Ruin
Unless they somehow managed to get permission not only from ZeniMax Media but also from every single contributor to DarkPlaces (which is very unlikely), they're either violating the GPL or will have to violate the NDAs required for console publishing.

Anonymous Sat Feb 20 17:03:12 2021 No.7443870

>>7442309
>hopefully this means better emulation for zeus and neogeo 64 hardware
Actually this has absolutely nothing to do with those. What DOES mean better emulation for Hyper Neogeo 64 is there's a new guy who has been submitting fixes for that system the last few weeks, seems to have figured out some of the sprite priority system and how some missing 3D parts work, so maybe with time he'll finally get it working properly.

Anonymous Sat Feb 20 17:51:19 2021 No.7444074
File: 78 KB, 635x399, Capcom.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>7437425

Because it's MAME being emulated in a virtual environment in the RE Engine. The front end with all those arcade cabs is to blame, basically.

>>7437430

True, but MAME runs way, way better than the games in CAS do.

Anonymous Sun Feb 21 02:45:43 2021 No.7445696

https://twitter.com/MameHaze/status/1362805237774503936
>Sadly from user reaction is appears the parts of that Capcom collection on the Switch that weren't from MAME aren't really up to standard, bad YM / FM sound for example. We really need to replace the YM cores in MAME with BSD licensed ones at some point so that they can be used.
>That is of course a big undertaking, and as you can see from the various other products that have tried doing their own YM cores, it often turns out badly. GPL is a fine license, but when it means those that need to use the code the most can't use it, it can be problematic.
>This is why the majority of MAME today is BSD licensed, we want people to be able to use the code we've created without it causing issues for them on consoles etc. where GPL isn't suitable. Cases like this highlight why more of it needs to be.

To this, Aaron Giles (developer of the Mac and Windows ports of the LucasArts graphic adventures) replied:
>Working on it....
https://twitter.com/aaronsgiles/status/1362826563977322500

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 21 02:47:36 2021 No.7445697 >>7445696 Isn't Aaron retired from the project? He hasn't touched it for nearly a decade.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 21 02:49:22 2021 No.7445701 >>7445697 What do you mean? https://github.com/mamedev/mame/pull/7808

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 21 02:52:09 2021 No.7445707 >>7445701 he finally came back? sweet

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 21 02:52:13 2021 No.7445708 File: 41 KB, 699x1022, Screenshot_2021-02-21 aaronsgiles - Overview.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7445701

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 21 02:57:56 2021 No.7445720 >>7445701 I'm glad he's back but he has been away for 10 years, the last WIP from him was how about finally dumping the laserdiscs

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 21 03:10:48 2021 No.7445743 File: 327 KB, 1031x588, censored bs.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] So the SF2 version in Capcom Stadium or whatever this crap is called, is CENSORED. They removed the iconic rising sun from the bathhouse. Dont feed crapcom money.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 21 03:11:45 2021 No.7445746 >>7445743 why even bother? is japanese nationalism on the rise on 2ch or smth?

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 21 06:52:02 2021 No.7446170 File: 97 KB, 800x640, IMG00236.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7445746 They want to sell games to China and Korea and they don't like being reminded of war crimes Shame, because it's a cool flag

Anonymous Sun Feb 21 08:41:59 2021 No.7446440

>>7445720
>I'm glad he's back but he has been away for 10 years
Err no he hasn't. Check on Github, while he doesn't work on MAME that much anymore, he's consistently been doing at least a few small commits at least every 2 years or so for the last decade, and even some bigger re-writes like this new sound work.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 21 19:44:39 2021 No.7448536 >>7445743 >Dont feed crapcom money. I waan't going to pay for this literal low effort trash anyway.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 21 19:47:10 2021 No.7448543 >>7446170 Citizens don't care about that, but it is clear that political parties want to exercise their soft power

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 21 19:50:07 2021 No.7448550 >>7445697 He only retired from being the project leader, he said that he will still contribute once in a while.

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