Thief Series FM Thread

[Anonymous No.7431703]

This thread is dedicated to discussing the various fan missions of the Thief series whether it's Dark Project or Deadly Shadows. Pic related is A Midsummer Night's Heist from the One Million Unit contest.

[Anonymous No.7431704]

>>7431703

[Anonymous No.7431710]

>>7431704

[Anonymous No.7431713]

>>7431710

[Anonymous No.7431728]

Are new FMs still being developed or has the community died out?

[Anonymous No.7431736]

>>7431728
The FM in the OP was released December 31st of last year.

[Anonymous No.7431742]

[Anonymous No.7431815]

Castle Morgoth FM for Thief Gold.

[Anonymous No.7431831]

>>7431815
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUBkD0lyaqs

[Anonymous No.7431842]

>>7431831
>>7431815
Looks nice, will give a shot after finishing Autumn in Lampfire Hills.

[Anonymous No.7431860]

Why are people still making FMs for Thief 1? Isn't Thief 2 just a better more polished game overall?

[Anonymous No.7431869]

>>7431860
No. There are subtle differences in things like lighting and NewDark means you can have way more scene complexity than oldDark T1 and T2 combined.

[Anonymous No.7431871]

>>7431860

Both are good.

[Anonymous No.7431884]

Pic related is Recipe for Turmoil.

[Anonymous No.7431887]

>>7431884

[Anonymous No.7431964]

>>7431703
>>7431713
>>7431742
>>7431710
I can't see shit senpai
use reshade or something

[Anonymous No.7431972]

>>7431964
no

[Anonymous No.7432008]

>>7431972
do it you nigger

pitch-black screenies won't bring your CRT experience back

[Anonymous No.7432057]

>>7431728
It's still alive and well. Not as fast as it once was, but the missions are better on average. There was just another contest a month or so ago, and there are some big campaigns in the works.

[Anonymous No.7432072]

>>7431860
Thanks to newdark the two games behave nearly identically. So if you want to make a mission that looks like Thief 1, there would just be extra work importing all the textures and models and sounds into 2 and making sure they all work right.

[Anonymous No.7432145]

Does anyone actually play old FMs without newmantle? After getting so used to it I don't think I could ever go back to old mantle.

[Anonymous No.7432154]

>>7432057
I think I am going to man and make a mission.

I loathe dromed its absolute shit but hey.

[Anonymous No.7432161]

>>7432154
>I loathe dromed its absolute shit but hey.
It's really not that bad, just slightly wonkier than Worldcraft.

[Anonymous No.7432174]

>>7432161
I just think its slow as shit. Compared to say how fluid trenchbroom is.

[Anonymous No.7432223]

>>7432174
You may find this interesting. It's still in development but looks really cool. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5U6aDVErJUU

[Anonymous No.7432324]

>>7432223
Comes way too late but looks really cool.

[Anonymous No.7432472]

>>7432324
>way too late
Nah, if people are still playing 23 years later, they'll still do it for 10 more.
It's not like it has a good successor yet.

[Anonymous No.7432476]

>>7432472
Dark Mod is good but it's also not a replacement, more like a free side project by Thief fans.

[Anonymous No.7432494]

>>7432472
True. Maybe i do need to man up and make a mission.

I made a great cathedral back in the day in old ass dromed and lost the file to a electrical storm frying my old pc.

[Anonymous No.7432604]

Ok, I've just finished Thief 3 last week but I've never played any of these mods. What are the top ones? I remember seeing one about some egyptian girl or something, seemed pretty fanfic-y. Is it good?

[Anonymous No.7432618]

>>7432604
Thief 3 Deadly shadows? You mean 2.

Also you mean thief 2x? Yeah its fanficky. Nice levels but shit everything else.

[Anonymous No.7432634]

>>7432618
No, I meant Deadly Shadows. I played the whole trilogy. So what's a good FM to start with then?

[Anonymous No.7432637]

>>7432634
Deadly Shadows had a good setup I only wish it was made by LGS.

It would have had better writing and even cooler maps.

[Anonymous No.7432940]

[Anonymous No.7432970]

>>7432634
Depends on what type of missions you enjoy.

[Anonymous No.7432997]

>>7432634
The obvious choice is to play the missions of the TDP and TMA 20th anniversary contests. My votes would be:
Downtowne Funk
Sound of a Burrick in a Room
Lost Among the Forsaken
Tomb of Saint Tennor
Into The Odd
Feast of Pilgrims

The first two are human focused TDP style missions, the second two are undead focused, final mission is Life of the Party on steroids (with a much better Angelwatch equivalent), and Into the Odd is an experience.

[Anonymous No.7433007]

>>7432997
Also note that this list is nowhere near comprehensive, just ones I played from the competition recently.

[Anonymous No.7433087]

>>7432970
Honestly, I enjoyed every type of mission but robbing mansions and the ones with the big sprawling city were my favorites. I wish there were something more creative with the pagans though, loved the mysticism/horror surrounding them.
>>7432997
Alright, I'll check those out.

[Anonymous No.7433128]

>>7433087
Check Ascend The Dim Valley if you like Pagan stuff.

[Anonymous No.7434234]

Bumperino. Anyone else anticipating this?

[Anonymous No.7434286]

>>7431703
>>7431704
>>7431710
>>7431713
>>7431736
>>7431742
Thief FMs are so damn comfy. Even more-so than the base game. Why is that?

[Anonymous No.7434291]

>>7433087
That was such a damn good cutscene. Made Garrett seem way more real than any other game protagonist I've seen.

[Anonymous No.7434385]

>>7434286
Usually a lot more time to spend on adding little details and a better understanding of the engine than the original devs.

[Anonymous No.7434393]

>>7434385
I think also the lack of bumpmaps, specular and other messy garbage newer games has contributes significantly to the comfyness.

[Anonymous No.7434671]

>>7434393
The low fidelity graphics are a definite factor, in addition to the very immersive ambient loops. In my opinion the FMs for Thief Gold are some of the most immersive out there.

[Anonymous No.7435140]

Which FMs are recommended for Thief Gold?

[Anonymous No.7435270]

>>7434234
I cannot wait to play the same city mission 10 more times.

[Anonymous No.7435471]

>>7435140
there are 20+ years of FMs
you're not going to get a comprehensive list

[Anonymous No.7435605]

>>7434234
Yes.

[Anonymous No.7435759]

Playing Sabotage in Eastport, pretty good so far.

[Anonymous No.7435805]

>>7435759
>Sabotage in Eastport

Looks nice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPNYCbUqHTI

[Anonymous No.7436057]

>>7435270
Does this look like one mission to you?

[Anonymous No.7436218]

>>7434234
Brushwork and lighting looks great but man does that tree look like dogshit without texture filtering.

[Anonymous No.7436258]

>>7435805
neat channel, wish they didn't use texture mods when doing their videos though. if that's you, stop it

[Anonymous No.7436272]

>>7431964
>UsE ReShAdE!!!!
>doesn't post settings
ok I won't

[Anonymous No.7436303]

>>7436258
The problem with the Enhancement Pack and why authors don't recommend it is that some models it replaces have wildly different geometry such as plates or trays that get sunk into tables or other furniture in 99% of cases. People shouldn't use any mods while playing FMs.

[Anonymous No.7436339]

>>7436272
Sorry, here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1s0I1Rc4Owmlg9GkaCBY2UNGOAOrIRXRK/view?usp=sharing

[Anonymous No.7436349]

>>7436339
reshade on Thief?

Does it look good on vanilla game? I do kinda miss crt blackness only for thief.

[Anonymous No.7436393]

>>7436349
The shots from last thread were using it. No idea how it looks on a CRT but in case you change resolutions (aside from 1080p) you have to manually edit GTUV50 under shaders to match yours, it's the shader that adds a little "color" blur, mimicking old screens somewhat.

Also I'm using "inv_status_height 0" under cam.cfg to hide the health and gem hud elements, but you can still use the blackjack to measure how visible you are.

I also use 96 FOV under cam_ext.cfg but that's optional.

[Anonymous No.7436397]

>>7436393
I meant as in kinda creating the same shadows as a crt which will never do but Iam up for trying a reshade on thief.

[Anonymous No.7436402]

Anyone know of any assassination FMs? I think it'd be interesting to script a Hitman style mission in Thief.

[Anonymous No.7436423]

>>7436402
The first mission in Shadow of Doubt requires you to kill a guy. Same goes for the fifth in the same campaign.

[Anonymous No.7436425]

>>7436423
Is the campaign as a whole good?

[Anonymous No.7436431]

>>7436393
Okay I just tried it with both ambient lights and curves. Its pretty sweet.

[Anonymous No.7436454]

>>7436425
It's a mixed bag. It's one of my favorites because of reasons but some people (understandably) hate it. The first mission sums it up: great atmosphere, classic Dark Project style, and imaginative gameplay conceits, but it's also somewhat linear, buggy (partially Newark's fault, partially sloppy building), difficult. Missions 2 and 4 are clearly the best while 5 is undeniably shit (even to weirdos like me who have a soft spot for it anyway). I suggest not playing on expert or else the loot goals will break your ass, and to dig up the DML fix for the campaign which patches some bugs.

[Anonymous No.7436460]

>>7436454
Also, the assassination isn't anything like a Hitman mission, you just stab the fucker. I agree that a more in depth assassination could be cool, and would give purpose to some tools most people probably never touch.

[Anonymous No.7436470]

>>7436460
Undercover is really proto hitman when you think about it, in fact early hitman games were not even that good.

Kind of a shame hitman series goes on while Thief much like tomb raider and deus ex got fucking ruined by squarefaggots.

[Anonymous No.7436480]

>>7436470
Only the first Hitman game is bad, 2 and 3 are both great games. Hitman only still exists because they bought their independence along with the IP. LGS never got that option since they were in debt during the development of Thief 1 and 2.

[Anonymous No.7436486]

>>7436454
That's pretty spot on.

[Anonymous No.7436780]

>>7431860
Thief 1's longer ranged jump makes it the better choice for maps that involve lots of platforming, IMO.

[Anonymous No.7436813]

>>7436780
I was actually discussing with a buddy not too long ago how annoying it is that Thief 2's jump distance was hobbled, glad to see someone else bring that up.

[Anonymous No.7436839]

>>7436813
You can put it back in Thief 2 by modifying a line in cam_ext.cfg. I believe Compulsory Egress enables it.

[Anonymous No.7436986]

>>7436839
new mantle is broken enough, don't want to break missions even more

[Anonymous No.7437458]

I'm about to get back home from a trip and I'm so excited to play thief gold, thief 2, 2X, Fan missions, the dark mod and the upcoming The Black Parade. Got the first two games for 60 cents

[Anonymous No.7437487]

Behind Closed Doors is really comfy.

[Anonymous No.7437617]

what are the fm's supposedly related to Black Parade?
I remember some anon saying Sound of a Burrick but I cant remember the other couple

[Anonymous No.7437632]

>>7432634
Endless Rain, Sepulchre of the Sinistral and Calendra's Cistern are 3 of the earliest I played and I still remember them really well despite the hundreds of forgetable FM's I've played since, so I'd say those 3
Into the Odd is a more recent FM though and its probably my favorite

[Anonymous No.7438212]

bump

[Anonymous No.7438292]

>>7438212
what the fuck is that

[Anonymous No.7438475]

>>7437617
Off the top of my head: Lost Among the Forsaken, The Whistling of the Gears, Between These Dark Walls and Endless Rain

[Anonymous No.7438594]

>>7438475
thanks man!
>Endless Rain
Nice I had no idea
how are these actually related?

[Anonymous No.7438620]

>>7438594
Several plot threads are linked to the overarching story in The Black Parade apparently. The Suond of a Burrick in a Room has a direct reference to the protagonist of the campaign in an out-of-the-way letter.

[Anonymous No.7438731]

just replayed Hand of Glory. a very simple, yet very solid mission.

simple premise: just a normal break-and-enter mission. a hammer temple and a mansion, a buch of artifacts and a bunch of loot. no contrived donut steal conspiracy to unearth. no hidden cursed rape dungeon. just simple breaking-and-entering.
pretty open-ended, with at least three ways of breaking into the temple.
the architecture and overall art direction feels like something straight out of TDP's original campaign.
the map is nice and hand-drawn. it has an early modern feel to it, and only contains the rudimentary information a thief could gather while scouting the exterior. in this way, it's a map with an implicit "story" behind it, which is precisely what I prefer in my thief missions.
very nice patrol routes in general. you can safely hide beside doors and along walls in corridors, without any bullshit where passing guards bump into you. some guards have really long patrol routes that span many different areas.

in short: a very nice FM if you like TDP's campaign and want more of the same.

[Anonymous No.7438786]

>>7438731
Agreed, it's one of my favorites. The same author made Project Hammer which is a comfy mansion mission in both versions.

[Anonymous No.7438940]

>>7438292
You know how people tell you that if you keep practicing you can only become better? This guy is proof of the contrary.

[Anonymous No.7438971]

>>7438940
based tuga

[Anonymous No.7439050]

>>7438292
I noticed it was the thumbnail image for the Three Distinct Adventures mission page a while ago on that thiefguild website and saved it before it got fixed since it cracked me up. I figured it'd be gone by now but it's still up.

>>7438940
I tried playing Les Paolis a while ago and immediately felt really bad that I disgraced my hard drive by downloading that shit.

[Anonymous No.7439153]

>>7439050
It's not even his worst. Try FTM Life and see for yourself. It's got to be the shittiest mission ever released so far and it's so bad it's not even a case of so bad it's good. It's just flat out horrible and runs like absolute dogshit to boot.

[Anonymous No.7439390]

any upcoming FMs to get excited about, besides the Black Parade?

[Anonymous No.7439561]

>>7439390
Broken Goddess but it's a very long ways away.

[Anonymous No.7439698]

Anyone else find the Builder's Paradise to be a more tedious Soulforge? I ended up taking out Karras then found that I was expected to navigate the massive labyrinth of a map to turn on a bunch of light switches and do some other busywork to actually finish the mission so I just dropped it.

[Anonymous No.7439934]

>>7439698
It's a bit too keyhunty and backtracky for my tastes.

[Anonymous No.7439979]

>>7432997
Sound of a burrick in a room is one of the best pieces of level design I've ever seen. That map is just so beautiful and fun to explore

[Anonymous No.7439991]

>>7439561
i hope it wont have anything similar to the tunnels in the second mission of Godbreaker. Nice atmosphere but the backtracking and the maze like design really made it a slog.

[Anonymous No.7440001]

>>7439390
Stinkykitty's big campaign, Shadow of Doubt remake (somehow not abandoned after over 12 years), and for TDM there is apparently a new Volta mission upcoming.

[Anonymous No.7440003]

>>7439698
As long as it's prettier than Soulforge it sounds fine by me
Is it?

[Anonymous No.7440056]

>>7439991
The last mission in Godbreaker was definitely the best in my opinion. Impious Pilgrimage was cool but yeah navigation was a bit too obscure especially considering the map is fucking useless. Not even Bonehoard useless, just plain useless.

[Anonymous No.7440070]

>>7440003
Much prettier.

[Anonymous No.7440125]

>>7440070
good brushwork at the expense of gameplay and performance

[Anonymous No.7440184]

I just completed Soulforge for the first time. It just solidifies my belief that while TMA's highs are much higher between the two original games, its lows are also lower. The mission is plain exhausting.
Keeping with the thread's theme, and believing that I've earned my TM pass through completing the official missions, what are the best FMs for a beginner to try out? More like The Sword, The Life of Party, The Cathedral and less like Sabotage at Soulforge or Kidnap?

[Anonymous No.7440212]

>>7440184
As a kid I didn't even bother and just watched the final cutscene. Then just went play some unreal or half life at the time.

Only finished soulforge like in 2013. I still thought at the time thief 2 was incredible but 1 had me much more interested in the final showdown. Deadly shadows as well had a nice end boss.


I can only imagine how amazing the hag fight would be if on dark engine or some other engine.

[Anonymous No.7440215]

>>7440212
Deadly shadows has the worst finale of the three. You just go through all the empty hub maps placing down mcguffins at monuments and win the game while the big bad teleports to each one.

[Anonymous No.7440219]

>>7440215
Yes but its a nice idea, I can "see" what they wanted to do there, and the hag is honestly kinda creepy.

Same with the keeper assassins but its stuck on an engine made to run on negative ram consoles.

[Anonymous No.7440289]

>>7440184
If you liked Life of the Party you can't go wrong with Feast of Pilgrims, Endless Rain, Disorientation and The Sound of a Burrick in a Room.

[Anonymous No.7440504]

>>7439698
Yes, sadly. The opening and first exploration of the map were really fun but then running around actually doing objectives was tedium. I was also disappointed that finding all the artefacts didn't actually give you a new ending, theres literally no reason to do it.

[Anonymous No.7440529]

>>7440504
The thing that annoyed me the most about the mission was that unkillable mechanist zombie that never stops following you around.

[Anonymous No.7440557]

>>7440529
he didn't really bother me, i feel like he stopped following me after the first floor, then the next time i saw him he died because of the secret mechanist gear weapon
The annoying part to me was having to run around and look for fucking keys just to get into most rooms. After spending 20 minutes running around looking for a key I missed somewhere I started getting real annoyed, and because its new AND an FM theres no real walkthrough.
Overall wasted potential, Into the Odd was the best of that contest, personally.

[Anonymous No.7440592]

>>7440557
Into the Odd is on a league of its own.

[Anonymous No.7441040]

>>7440592
for sure, I wish more FMs were that level of quality and nailed that atmosphere of delving somewhere you're not meant to be
I only played it like a month ago and I think its honestly my favorite FM

[Anonymous No.7441282]

>>7439698
>>7440504
>>7440529
>>7440557
Firemage has this issue consistently where he struggles with making actually fun objectives or gameplay. His best by far is Whistling of the Gears but even that is marred by the tedious talisman collectathon that kicks off with a pretty vague teleportation sequence, and if you don't understand what to do immediately afterwards you'll waste a lot of time and get annoyed.

I think he has these really cool ideas of things he wants to do and how to achieve them with the engine but when you actually sit down to play the mission built around them most of the time they're not very fun and get tiresome or irritating. His brushwork is impeccable and he can really set the mood well but it's a struggle to actually play his shit sometimes.

[Anonymous No.7441337]

Anyone tried out reshade?

[Anonymous No.7441351]

[Anonymous No.7441425]

[Anonymous No.7441427]

[Anonymous No.7441504]

>>7441282
Paradise is the only mission by him that I've played but I can see it. The sad thing was that the atmosphere in the beginning of Paradise was so good, and the structure of the level was nice but fuck me was it unfun to play after a while. I got lost for about an hour because I was certain that walking into Karras's throne room or whatever (the area you get locked in an all the turrets and children of Karras start attacking you) was a trap. Very unclear you're meant to go there to progress

[Anonymous No.7441512]

[Anonymous No.7441587]

>>7441282
speaking of, where the other missions in that contest worth playing? I only had time for the top 3 when I played them but if some of the others are worth checking out I'll be sure to after I'm done going through this 1mil units contest

[Anonymous No.7441593]

>>7441587
My Favorite Year, Troubling Transitions, Fierce Competition and Where the Unknown Lurks are good missions you should check out. The rest is sort of forgettable.

[Anonymous No.7441858]

>>7441282
>I think he has these really cool ideas of things he wants to do and how to achieve them with the engine but when you actually sit down to play the mission built around them most of the time they're not very fun and get tiresome or irritating. His brushwork is impeccable and he can really set the mood well but it's a struggle to actually play his shit sometimes.
This is an issue that can also be found in general with fan missions. Not all of them have this problem thankfully, but it's almost like some authors are really afraid their missions aren't long enough so they add tons of padding and busywork to compensate. Some of the missions from the mid 2000s in particular are really egregious.

[Anonymous No.7441879]

guys why does this engine look so freaking good in low light compared to say goldsrc? it's like it's properly tonemapped or something

[Anonymous No.7442935]

>>7441858
Never understood why Rocksbourg part 3 gets hyped up so much when its a collectathon. DrK's other missions are all much better.

[Anonymous No.7442937]

>>7441879
You guessed it right.

[Anonymous No.7442943]

>>7442935
I liked mission 2 because I have a weak spot for deusexvanias

[Anonymous No.7442945]

>>7442943
I liked it as well but was disappointed it showed nothing of the zombie hordes in the briefing.

[Anonymous No.7443009]

>>7442935
I would argue that Rocksbourg 3 unlike a lot of the others never overstays its welcome and 75% of the items you can collect are optional. The layout is also really well made so traversing the level isn't boring or annoying.

[Anonymous No.7443819]

Burrick Bump

[Anonymous No.7443841]

Give me some comfy missions to play in between the stressful horror ones.

[Anonymous No.7443974]

>>7443841
Ack! There's a Zombie in the Basement
A Midsummer Night's Heist
Recipe for Turmoil
Fierce Competition
Heist Society
Pretty much any mission by Christine (quality varies from shit to alright)
All For a Night's Sleep

[Anonymous No.7443979]

>>7443974
Haven't played some of these, thank you.

[Anonymous No.7444121]

>>7443841
most of the comfiest missions I know also have horror elements. I'll try to list some "pure" comfy missions:
>Hand of Glory
>Shadow Play
>Lord Beilman's Estate
>Lampfire Hills

[Anonymous No.7444350]

[Anonymous No.7444380]

>>7444350
These blue shadows are ugly as fuck.

[Anonymous No.7444583]

>>7432145
Never. Finding a way to get out of bounds is one of my favorite things to do in any game. Don't really mind if I break the intended progression or sneaking challenge in order to do that.

[Anonymous No.7445042]

I'm surprised there haven't been any efforts to make a (fan made) Thief 2 Gold. What old missions would you have liked to see touched up and tweaked, and what would be your pitch ideas for the new missions?

[Anonymous No.7445050]

>>7445042
There have been and they all failed.

[Anonymous No.7445094]

>>7442937
>properly tonemapped
is this dark engine, new dark or reshaded new dark that we're talking about here?
anywhere i can get info about tonemapping in this engine?

[Anonymous No.7446187]

The Scarlet Cascabel is some spooky shit

[Anonymous No.7446443]

Gameplays with commentary?
Nothing is worse than blahblah in gameplays!

[Anonymous No.7446484]

>>7446443
Depends. Someone like klatremus has good commentary. As long as you allow room to breathe with moments of silence and don't digress too much I think that's fine.

[Anonymous No.7446490]

>>7445094
No idea anon, there is a opendark project go ask.

But it was one of the aspects they really focused when making the engine in the 90s, since there was no lighting like today. The way brightness works on the textures is smooth.

[Anonymous No.7446736]

why do so many T2 fan missions have a purplish-greenish tint in their lighting? do authors really think that shit looks good?

[Anonymous No.7446795]

>>7431703
Any good FMs that have Stephen Russell voice impersonations in them? Just reinstalled Thief 2 after a long while and played through A Better Tomorrow and part of the Black Frog campaign. I thought it was cool how both FMs had a voice actor for Garrett doing an impression of Russell's voice, I'd like to know if there are some other FMs that do this thing because I liked it here

>>7436470
>in fact early hitman games were not even that good
>implying that Codename 47, Silent Assassin, and Contracts arent stealth-action kino

[Anonymous No.7446814]

>>7446187
desu I wasn't a big fan of that one.

it perfectly embodies contemporary thief 2 FM design philosophy, and everything I hate about it. it follows the overdone "mundane living area followed by spooky hidden dungeon" formula.
the design of the "mundane" part of the hotel is overly intricate and cluttered with unusable objects. compare this with classic thief, in which most of the more sparsely placed items can be interacted with.
the winter wing is only designed to be a spooky dungeon, and doesn't make sense as an actual building in which people once lived. part of it feels completely on-rails. interestingly, there are no secrets in this area, meaning the author literally just intended for you to rush through it once.
in addition to that, there's the horrible dim lighting. I'm pretty confident this shit can actually fuck your eyesight if you play it for extended time periods.
sometimes I feel like authors designed their missions with a higher-than-default gamma in mind, or perhaps their own monitor's calibration is fucked up.

in short: I was disappointed that the winner of a contest oriented towards the classic T1 experience was such a typical "modern T2 mission". I guess that's that's the kind of mission ttlg has grown to like

[Anonymous No.7446829]

>>7446795
A Midsummer Night's Heist has a bang on Garrett impression.

[Plutonia No.7446880]

I managed to get a 1999 cover disk image working on Win7 and installed the demo of Thief. I'm trying to play in software mode but I'm just getting a black screen that hangs. I've tried 95 and 98 compatibility modes.

[Anonymous No.7446884]

>>7446814
I wouldn't call that contemporary Thief 2 FM design, The Scarlet Cascabel uses tropes that were used as fat back as the 7th Crystal and Rowena's Curse. These sort of missions kinda disappeared for a while. That being said I agree that it shouldn't have won the contest, it was also a buggy mess.

[Anonymous No.7446929]

>>7446736
you mean the 16 bit lighting?

[Anonymous No.7447047]

>>7446814
I hate when FMs have tons of normally frobbable objects scattered around rooms like scrolls and loose books.

[Anonymous No.7447561]

>>7447047
Do you really want to read all of these? That's a fairly weird thing to be mad about.

[Anonymous No.7447593]

>>7447561
It means finding actual readables means I have to scan every one and hope it highlights.

[Anonymous No.7447769]

>>7447561
for some reason, it has become a common design trope to have hundreds of non-interactive items cluttering every room. the thing is, you don't need to design your missions that way. LGS sure didn't

[Anonymous No.7447846]

>>7446880
I would just try it on a VM.

[Anonymous No.7447904]

>>7447769
>>7447593
That genuinely doesn't bother me honestly.

[Plutonia No.7448098]

>>7447846
Then I need to hunt down a copy of Windows 98 somehow. Isn't it a nightmare to get all sorts of drivers for old operating systems these days?

[Anonymous No.7448345]

So why does everyone say Garrett's a terrible swordsman who can't even fight common guards one on one? By the end of the Dark Project, I was pretty easily killing hammer haunts in duels on expert without taking damage, so long as I had room to maneuver. Garrett is extremely good at killing shit, even without stealth. If anything, I think his no-kill rule is more for the benefit of the people he's robbing from then for his own sake.

[Anonymous No.7448364]

>>7448345
>So why does everyone say Garrett's a terrible swordsman who can't even fight common guards one on one?
People who are bad at the game and don't understand how the blocking works. Not sure if it's placebo, but I've always had the impression that swordfighting in Thief 2 is considerably harder than Gold due to how rapidly the enemy can keep swinging to make fighting enemies one on one less appealing.

[Anonymous No.7448396]

>>7448345
Compared to the protagonists of some other stealth games (even those that took after Thief), Garrett's not the most proficient fighter around.
In Thief, sword fighting mechanics are certainly not in the spotlight, and most players will avoid fights, which means they'll never learn the game's fencing.
>Garrett is extremely good at killing shit, even without stealth
The case may also be that you as a player are good at killing shit.
This is gonna be a clunky comparison, but I feel it kinda fits: there are dozens of people at this point who have played through Dark Souls using only a broken sword, but you don't see people touting it as the best weapon in the game. Those players are just good enough to be successful with it.

[Anonymous No.7448421]

>>7448345
Mostly comes down to player skill and game design. High level players never get caught, but if they're feeling like dicking around, I've seen them take out whole patrols of guards without much hassle, for instance, compared to noobs who can't even hit servants reliably.

Gameplay wise, you're heavily encouraged not to fight and to run away in most cases by the game, which means that players never develop combat skills, which means they think Garrett is clumsy and untrained when in actuality, he's medieval batman. Not helped is that there are plenty of articles and posts about how wimpy Garrett is, ignoring how athletic and strong the man actually is (can hold a bow forever, can vault over walls with all his equipment and loot on him, can easily carry bodies, etc.)

Lore wise, Garrett was the most promising of the Keeper enforcer novices, which means that combat skills were a must. He can, for instance, easily draw blood on fully armored opponents (some of them in plate), meaning that he must be very skilled to direct blows towards weak points in their armor.

But at the end of the day though, fighting is just not how the game is meant to be played. Personally, I find fighting people and creatures to be more easy than stealthing past them in many cases, and stealth mostly because it is more rewarding and feels better.

[Anonymous No.7448452]

>>7448364
Thief 2 had a lot more corridors and hallways if I remember correctly. Garrett fights best when he can circle around his opponents and hit them in the side or back. Hell, you can knock guards out this way if you're skilled enough.

[Anonymous No.7448458]

>>7448452
I meant more like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcaT7DfueC4

[Anonymous No.7448463]

>you can bash doors in thief
https://youtu.be/b5vnl90zB74?t=257
i never knew this

[Anonymous No.7448467]

>>7448458
i wish i could be this passionate about manual labor

[Anonymous No.7448476]

>>7448345
I actually like the later combat missions in DP. It felt good to just cut loose and kill shit left and right after being fettered the whole game. Extremely satisfying to finally be able to use those broadheads, mines, fire arrows, and sword I never touched before.

[Anonymous No.7448579]

>>7448458
>Engineer gameplay

[Anonymous No.7448927]

slow burning horror/paranormal or suspense missions? i am trying to find surreal level design like in american mcgee's alice

[Anonymous No.7448942]

>>7436393
hey how do you disable texture dithering but not on the lights? i think thats the best of both worlds.

[Anonymous No.7448979]

>>7444380
Halved the strength
Hopefully it's not as distracting now

[Anonymous No.7448980]

>>7448098
dude there is a debugged-for modern win Build of the demo
>ttlg dot com slash forums slash showthread dot php questionmark t=141747
i have not tried it

[Anonymous No.7449310]

[Anonymous No.7449317]

[Anonymous No.7449318]

[Anonymous No.7449321]

[Anonymous No.7449324]

[Anonymous No.7449328]

[Anonymous No.7449330]

[Anonymous No.7449336]

[Anonymous No.7449345]

>>7448421
>Not helped is that there are plenty of articles and posts about how wimpy Garrett is,

>He then went on to clarify that "not very good" means the melee combat system is very simple and, by extension, very boring. The developers have also indicated in the past that Garrett will continue to be weaker than a kitten when facing enemies head on and that coming up directly against even an armed commoner or lone guard is more or less a death sentence. In essence, don't expect an "Assault" style of gameplay like that of Splinter Cell: Blacklist, because the Thief reboot will continue to be all about stealth.

>This should be taken as a positive sign by the fans. After all, Garrett is a burglar rather than an assassin and the reboot, like the games before it, will offer the option of an entirely non-lethal approach. Clumsily leaving the guards bleeding out on the floor isn't nearly as satisfying as imagining how embarrassed they'll be when it's discovered that someone got in and thoroughly fleeced the place without them even noticing.

I love perceptions about Garrett's abilities. It informs me so much about the writer's skill levels when it comes to Thief.

[Anonymous No.7449369]

>>7449345
People always forget that Garrett is as much an adventurer as he is a thief.

[Anonymous No.7449396]

>>7449345
>Constantine's Mansion Redux on Expert
>6 Monkes + 1 mantis in dining room
>take 1 monkey out with broadhead
>2 with a gas mine
>2 others with a flash + blackjack
>easily chase off last in swordfight
>close in on bug beast and kill it with sword
>shoot the fleeing monkey in back with arrow
>all within less than 12 seconds

Like I'm not the best player, but Garrett is a beast if I use him right.

[Plutonia No.7449569]

>>7448980
That is basically the polar opposite of what I'm looking for. It has all the modern enhancements and more, including dousable candles. I need the version that still has the software rendering support.

[Anonymous No.7449640]

>>7446736
16-bit lightmaps and colored lighting don't mesh well together. On bright textures you can see some pretty intense banding with weird color gradients. In addition, most people just don't know how to use colored lighting properly.

[Anonymous No.7449645]

What is the brightest lit mission ever made? Darkness is the point of the game sure but I just wonder what happens in the engine with a lot of light.. I mean this is quite bright >>7431964 and it looks great. But can the engine go even brighter?

[Anonymous No.7449757]

>>7449569
Oh, thanks for pointing that out it doesn't have that because I was just about to wade into Thief with this. Instead it can get fuct if doesn't have software mode. I HATE early D3D moosh.
Haha i was just on my way out to but a damn crt

[Anonymous No.7449773]

>>7449569
>>7449757
but uh, i know there are about 3 versions of the thief 1 demo that were out in the 90s which you can just download at like 100MB and try.
In the past I got one of them to mostly work with compatibility mode but I don't know if i was doing software mode

[Anonymous No.7449792]

>>7449773
Well, I haven't played in software mode probably since 1999 when I got my first 3d acceleration card. I remember thinking even back then how it was a bit lame that Thief 2 didn't come with software rendering support at all. I mean sure, the game didn't even run properly on our 333MHz pentium with 3d acceleration, but I never thought the game looked that much different from the first one to justify there not being the option for software mode.

[Anonymous No.7449820]

>>7449792
>Thief 2 didn't come with software rendering support at all.
damn that sucks. i hate smooth but reading into this there's many options in cam_ext.cfg that comes in that moderned-up demo, including turning off texture filtering.
people have complained that doing so makes the lighting 'blocky' though, so not quite getting good software look back. and also probably color depth is different.
For me its worth playing with though so i'll see if i can get something nice because software mode thief is one of the most beautiful things i've seen. Hardware looks "eh okay"

[Anonymous No.7449845]

>>7449820
>people have complained that doing so makes the lighting 'blocky' though
This is only a problem if you use a version of NewDark older than 1.26.

[Anonymous No.7449883]

>>7449845
we've been talking about demos. I just played one that has some version of newdark applied it seems but presumably applying new version to a demo is another story.
I take back recommending it anyway I can't get the damn tex filter to turn off and some creep has stuck one or two (just one or two why) disgusting "HD-textures" into the thing, Yuck

[Anonymous No.7449918]

>>7449883
If that certain creep is voodoo47 then I'm not surprised in the slightest.

[Anonymous No.7449945]

>>7449918
Yeah, that doofus forces different textures and models on the Thief2 Lost Alpha Demo & TDP unified Demo IIRC. You have to delete a folder to erase all that stuff, although I don't remember which one.

[Anonymous No.7449951]

>>7449945
Not only that but he bundles TFix with a bunch of shit that is enabled by default and fucks with mission authors who have to go out of their way to remove that crap.

[Anonymous No.7449984]

>>7449951
he's on a one-man crusade to """fix""" T1 and restore it to what LGS """really""" intended.

coloured lights? they were totally part of LGS' real vision when they made T1, just trust me bro.
then there's all the random fences he puts up everywhere to prevent newdark mantling. I could understand if he added invisible walls, because that's what those unmantlable walls essentially were. it looks awful with all those fences though, and don't get me started on the keeper library

[Anonymous No.7449993]

Are the two Thief 1 downloads from the retro fps thread both from GOG?

[Anonymous No.7450624]

>>7449984
Yeah that's why Lite should be used instead, even if it does come with a few DML files with a few dubious "fixes".

[Anonymous No.7450956]

>>7448345
I know right?

Its the pionner stealth game effect. As a kid, fuck evne as a teen it fucking terrified me.

I wish the combat was way deadlier for Garrett.


In Thief is one of my all time favourites but I wish I could have seen the dark camelot project.

Its ambitions today much less in the late 90s. It seems like they were basically making a very focused Bethesda type game with Warrior, Thief and Mage. We got the rogue mechanics in the end. Instead of sandbox a more tight level design like semi sandbox deus ex.

No wonder Dark messiah is so loved as well the dna is there.

[Anonymous No.7450961]

>>7450956
It would have been another jack of some trades when the game feels like it, master of none just like Dark Messiah.

[Anonymous No.7450962]

>>7448421
>about how wimpy Garrett is

He is kinda wimpy on expert.

>>7449369
This Garrett is a at least a level 15 rogue. D6d so to speak.

I think /tg/ back in its golden days made him a sheet.

[Anonymous No.7450965]

>>7450961
Maybe. Or Arx Fatalis. Hell even Beth games.

I know I did a Garret run on Oblivion and Skyrim.

Would still love to see it. Its a fascinating twist on camelot legends.
I can only imagine if the other archetypes were as developed as Thief it would have ben one hell of a game.

[Anonymous No.7451495]

>>7450962
>He is kinda wimpy on expert.
Only if you let them hit you.

[Anonymous No.7451509]

Garrett isn't wimpy with a sword. Everyone else is just better than him. They can initiate attacks immediately after one hit connects or gets blocked. A hammer haunt can slash four times in a single second if you're unlucky.

[Anonymous No.7451521]

>>7450624
I can't find anything about this, where is it?

[Anonymous No.7451652]

>>7451521
I sorta want to return TDP to its roots really.

Next install I do its tfixlite and that fix for the lost city.

[Anonymous No.7451657]

>>7451652
Curiously even if I want TDP as vanilla as possible. I have no problem with playing Thief 2 with necroage and texture filtering.

Kinda weird.

[Anonymous No.7451679]

>>7449792
Software rendering is shit and shouldn't be supported and Thief 2 is a considerable graphical upgrade from TDP. The characters alone are probably double the poly count at least.

[Anonymous No.7451682]

>>7451679
Yeah, I have nothing against purist I really dont. But Thief is one of those games whose real focus is the sound, as long as textures dont clash I am okay with some upgrades. Fuck I would not even mind some clean-ups to vanilla missions or some redesigns for more brushes and detail.

[Anonymous No.7451686]

>>7451509
He relies on his mobility and footwork in a fight. Sure, taking on enemies head on is usually a bad idea unless you're just that shit hot, but maneuver around to their sides and they're super easy to destroy.

[Anonymous No.7451690]

>>7451679
I know I know, I just think there was a certain weird charm in the aliased sprites, the low color depth, the banding lighting and pitch black darkness. It would be nice to play Thief 1 again in with those visuals.

[Anonymous No.7451693]

>>7451690
I said this heresy here>>7451682


But I agree. There should be a version ready to play of Thief 1 like that.

[Anonymous No.7451696]

>>7451682
I disagree but don't care enough about how you enjoy your game to argue over Thief's aesthetics.

[Anonymous No.7451702]

>>7451696
Its out of love I say that, I like vanilla Thief 1 and 2. But some FM missions are so beautiful from a visual side that I would have loved LGS had the same time to have the same map autism.

[Anonymous No.7451782]

>>7451702
Are you talking about FMs made after the unofficial engine update or before? Because there really were some pretty strict limitations on brush geometry before the Dreamcast devkit source code was found and the fan patch was made. It wasn't just that two decades ago computers didn't have the power to run more complex levels. It was the engine itself that had limits.

[Anonymous No.7452031]

>>7449945
> You have to delete a folder to erase all that stuff, although I don't remember which one.
'Updates'

[Anonymous No.7452230]

>>7440289
>Feast of Pilgrims
I checked it out, and sadly, I'm kinda disappointed. The map is full of fake doors that look like real doors at a distance, and a bunch of static meshes that look like clutter items (vases, crates) that can't be interacted with.
I see what they were going for - you can't expect a large city area to be populated with complete, fully realized buildings when the player is supposed to travel across roofs and top floors at most - but the way it's set up takes away from the believability of the environment. Thief is an immersive sim after all, and when I constantly stumble upon stuff that (having played the base game) I expected to be interactive, but it turns out to be set dressing - my immersion completely shatters. Sadly, it reminds me of Potemkin villages of some modern shooters.
Running into a fake door that looks just like the door you entered through in every other building just never stops being jarring.

[Anonymous No.7452287]

>>7452230
The amount of buildings you can enter in Feast of Pilgrims is insane for the map size whereas Life of the Part has only a handful at best along with Angelwatch being a barebones shell of a map. What you're asking for is ridiculous and would murder the performance of a map that already pushes way past the limit of what the original Thief 2 engine could handle.

[Anonymous No.7452369]

>>7452230
This is just how these missions are. Not only is it impossible technically to do that but it's not something you want in gameplay either. Imagine the absolute tedium if every single apartment was fully modeled in missions so large.

[Anonymous No.7452542]

has anyone here played the thief 2 FM 'Lord Alan's Factory'?
it's really a one-of-a-kind mission.

it takes place in an alternative thief timeline in which petroleum refinement was discovered, and development exploded as a result. it has a very futuristic feel to it.
you explore an insanely huge oil rig, trying to stop a pagan plot. navigation through the huge map is very central element, and requires you to learn the IDs for various sections, machines etc.

I found it to be a great mission. it has really neat custom music, enemies, etc. the art direction is spot on. there's tons of stuff to do

[Anonymous No.7452546]

Which do you guys prefer more, Thief 1's medieval/baroque/steampunk aesthetic, Thief 2's Classicist/Victorian look (while still retaining medieval/steampunk cues), or Thief 3 which goes hardest for the medieval look and has the fewest nonmedieval/steampunk elements.

[Anonymous No.7452567]

>>7452546
Thief 1, no contest.

[Anonymous No.7452571]

>>7452546
I prefer T1's style without a doubt. T2's leap into the 19th century broke my suspension of disbelief

I'm also in love with T1's colour scheme

[Anonymous No.7452575]

>>7452546
T2 had my favorite rendition of the City and noble manors, but T1's supernatural and surreal levels had an amazing vibe to them that's missed in T2. T3's art direction in comparison is just boring.

[Anonymous No.7452618]

>>7452575
for me, the appeal of T1's supernatural elements is intimately tied to the rendition of the city.

T1's city is stratigraphically complex, featuring many layers of buildings of different ages. public spaces are rare. buildings have been allowed to spill over into the streets, to the point where many streets are buried beneath underpasses.
I'm sure the underpasses were initially added because of technical constraints, but even so, they helped define the city.
the city as seen in T1 is a perfect place to hide mysteries, curses etc. examples of such hidden things in the original game are the sealed section, the lost city and bonehoard.

the aspects of T1's city that I love have been captured perfectly by schlock in his fan missions.

[Anonymous No.7452662]

>>7452546
Despite being far more crude looking, I prefer the aesthetics of 1 to the elegance of 2, mostly because 1's aesthetics are a visual metaphor to the main conflict of the story.

1's setting is based on the medieval era, a period associated with ruralism, mysticism, isolation from the greater world, and limited urbanism. The City also has trappings of the early industrial revolution, what with the Hammers and all, which is associated with basically the opposite of above. The main conflict of nature vs civilization is ever present in the visual design of the city, and the most impressive thing about it is that it never feels jarring or out of place. I wouldn't call the first Thief game steampunk since the tech there was largely very down-to-earth and even crude, which helped it mesh with the world in a believable way.

2, by contrast, leans heavily into a Victorian aesthetic which in my opinion has the effect of weakening the story. The main theme of 2 is that embracing progress and technology too much leads to evil, as epitomized by the Mechanists. There is a missed opportunity in having their tech feel out of place within the setting to emphasize how it's too much too fast. To explain my point, consider Angelwatch; the transition from a fairly standard European-style city to art-deco is instant and jarring, it feels unnatural to me and that is a perfect description of the Mechanists. It illustrates that the Mechanists want to advance technology so fast that it outpaces the rest of the City perfectly, I just wish the rest of the game had that feel.

Since the setting resembles the Victorian-era, which is where most steampunk is based, seeing one of Karras' Children running about feels somewhat normal as it does match the surroundings to an extent. Now if it was like the first game where we were running around medieval manors and castles, the gaudy golden children would stand out a lot more, giving the same feeling Angelwatch gave but over the whole game.

[Anonymous No.7453283]

>>7431964
Seeing Thief in the day trips me out.

[Anonymous No.7454264]

>>7452618
The City in 2 is far too clean, especially when you consider it's supposed to take place during the boom of the industrial revolution where everything should be soot-caked with fumes everywhere.

[Anonymous No.7454441]

>>7454264
the City in 2 is too comfy with its bright summer nights and warm lighting colors. Thief 1 feels colder and darker with its pitch black cloudless skies and the fact that all of the lighting is monochrome

[Anonymous No.7454562]

>>7452546
I would say mostly 1 very prog rock medieval cover album , with a little bit of 2 here and there.

Wish there were more classical elements like in the cutscenes you can gleam off.

[Anonymous No.7454581]

>>7452546
Both are good, Thief 3's is the worst because every level is Fisher Price scaled because their shitty Invisible War engine couldn't handle anything larger.

[Anonymous No.7454891]

>>7448345
>I think his no-kill rule is more for the benefit of the people he's robbing from then for his own sake.
Yeah, I get this feeling too. Canon Garrett in my mind is Expert mode played by a skilled player. It'd be so easy for him to kill, even in head on confrontations, but he has "standards." Whenever he takes the gloves off though, such as the last quarter of the Dark Project or Soulforge, he can leave a trail of death and destruction behind.

[Anonymous No.7455162]

Thief is perfectly playable on controller right?
Am I right in saying the only input intensive thing in the game is aiming the bow?
There's momentum on the movement too so steams' analogue emulation should work as well.

[Anonymous No.7455185]

>>7455162

Why the fuck would you want to play it on a gamepad?

[Anonymous No.7455216]

>>7455185
Why not?

[Anonymous No.7455223]

>>7455216
Well I guess it makes the game more tense and difficult like playing resident evil on a gamepad.

Good luck I guess.

[Anonymous No.7455230]

>>7455223
Why would it be more tense or difficult?

[Anonymous No.7455239]

>>7455230

Okay Ill bite.

Because its harder hence the resident evil mention. Its always going to make looking around slower or less accurate.

You have way less control for sword fights or lighting fast rope arrow shots or something.

Hence it will make the game harder. re2remake is way more easy on mouse than gamepad.

[Anonymous No.7455242]

>>7455162
>Thief is perfectly playable on controller right?
Let's see... a gamepad has 16 buttons and two analog sticks. Thief has about 70 keys if you ignore every individual item shortcut and only use scroll item functions. So no, Thief is not perfectly playable with a controller. You'd have to bind an average of four functions in one input.

[Anonymous No.7455269]

>7455242
CORRECTION: I suspected that would be wrong. The ini includes all redundant binds as well. In total Thief can be played with 20 buttons.

[Anonymous No.7455286]

All necessary binds:
>clear_weapon
>leanright
>use_item
>esc sim_menu
>map (also found in menu)
>objectives (also found in menu)
>block (Combat only)
>zoomout (Thief 2 only)
>zoomin (Thief 2 only)
>crouch
>prev_weapon
>next_weapon
>use_weapon
>prev_item
>next_item
>leanleft
>drop_item
>creepon
>jump
>leanforward

Maybe you could also unbind creepon by having an analog input threshold on movement where half tilt and under has the shift modifier and over half tilt disengages it.

[Anonymous No.7455330]

>>7455242
>>7455269
Steam input, so it's likely not an issue
>>7455239
It's not bait, my hands are fucked from afps and so I generally opt to play singleplayer games chilling on the couch, if possible. So please save your passive aggressive elitism anon. Look after your hands too.
I'm only asking what there is in the game that's input intensive. Sacrificing faster aiming is something i'm happy to deal with. Is sword fighting a deal breaker do you reckon?
>>7455286
Thanks anon, this is very helpful. Yeah creepon should be easy to deal with, it's just slow walk right?
There's a guy doing it here but I simply don't know enough about the game to judge it. He says the only thing he does is save/load with keyboard but I can macro that no bother.
https://youtu.be/TvWtQ-V_Lxc
I appreciate the help anons

[Anonymous No.7455331]

>>7455286
>no binds for the lockpicks
>no binds for the compass

[Anonymous No.7455348]

>>7455330

I am not being passive aggressive.

I believe you hence why I thought it was weird why you asked. Of course it will be harder.

[Anonymous No.7455351]

>>7455162
No. Either play it as intended or not at all.

[Anonymous No.7455357]

>>7455351
He can play it with a gamepad. But as I said it will be harder.

But with gamepad he can also take it slower than mouse and keyboard.

[Anonymous No.7455373]

>>7455357
I'm sure you can play Thief on a DDR mat if you wanted, doesn't make it any less retarded

[Anonymous No.7455383]

>>7455373
Its not that retarded. He can take it slower. Although I think a more veteran player might appreciate the challenge.

For a new player it might be too much. Unless playing on normal.

[Anonymous No.7455398]

>>7455373
>retarded
explain

[Anonymous No.7455506]

>>7455331
Yeah but what can you do? There are dozens of equipment shortcuts and only so many buttons. At least Thief isn't TIE Fighter where you actually do need to learn and use all 85 or so buttons with no room for contextualization.

[Anonymous No.7455530]

Thoughts on Turning of the Leaves? I think it's competent but would have rather had it be more Thief-y than be full of custom models and collectable flowers.

[Anonymous No.7455540]

>>7455530
I thought it was fairly disappointing, the lack of vertical space really hurts the mission overall especially in the thieves' hideout. Almost everything is one dimensional and the patrols aren't especially riveting. Not sure why TTLG loves it so much frankly.

[Anonymous No.7455547]

>>7455540
>Not sure why TTLG loves it so much frankly.
Mappers seem to care more about elaborate scripts and custom content than well designed maps.

[Anonymous No.7455568]

>>7455547
Not all of them, but TTLG users seem to indeed prefer these kinds of missions.

[Anonymous No.7455601]

>>7455568
To be fair to nicked, its not like all of his missions are gimmicky.

[Anonymous No.7455626]

>>7455601
A lot of his recent ones have massive shopping lists too, like Behind Closed Doors or Duncan Malveine. There is definitely an audience for that which is fine, but it's not really my thing. I wasn't too bothered by that in Turning of the Leaves, again my disappointment comes from the fact that it's just not a particularly interesting mission design-wise. There are other missions in this contest that use space far, far more efficiently than this one.

[Anonymous No.7455635]

>>7455626
>There are other missions in this contest that use space far, far more efficiently than this one.
Alcazar does this so well.
https://imgur.com/a/rfjFSpN

[Anonymous No.7455665]

>>7455635
Yeah. I would say Cinder Notes, Recipe for Turmoil and A Midsummer Night's Heist also use space brilliantly, the latter in particular feels a lot bigger than it really is.

[Anonymous No.7455792]

I just killed the hidden invisible keeper in Disorientation.

I slashed in the general direction his footsteps were coming from, got a few hits in and eventually heard him drop on the floor.
it doesn't seem like I can pick up his body, though

[Anonymous No.7455961]

>>7454441
>the City in 2 is too comfy with its bright summer nights and warm lighting colors.

I feel like they overcorrected with 3.

[Anonymous No.7456481]

>>7455792
I love this area.

[Anonymous No.7456794]

>playing Thief Gold for the first time
>get to the Haunted Cathedral
>mfw the giant spiders
>mfw the fucking bugmen

this game is too scary bros. I really enjoy the gameplay and atmosphere, but it's too much for me. I just wanted to rob houses.

[Anonymous No.7456884]

>>7456794
stop being a coward

[Anonymous No.7457428]

>>7456794
Man up you taffer.

[Anonymous No.7457596]

>>7431710
At this point why aren't you just making for The Dark Mod.

[Anonymous No.7457935]

>>7457596
Because they're different games with different mechanics perhaps?

[Anonymous No.7458203]

>>7457596
Probably because the Dark Mod has some seriously clunky physics and movement.

[Plutonia No.7458297]

I know this is a few years early, but what kind of anniversary artwork should I make for Deadly Shadows in 2024? I made pixel art of Garrett stealing The Eye from Constantine for TDP and the gear animation for TMA. What would be iconic for TDS? Something related to the Keepers? Cradle? Moira?

[Anonymous No.7458374]

>>7458297
Oh damn. I saw your gear animation and thought it looked awesome. Didn't see the eye stealing one though, you have it on hand by chance? I can't really recommend anything for TDS. Was never able to get over the movement.

[Anonymous No.7458378]

>>7431703
>fan missions
fucking cringe

[Anonymous No.7458404]

>>7458297
The most memorable part of TDS for me is one of the first missions with the twisted spires.

[Plutonia No.7458416]

>>7458374
Here. Also, I swear I didn't intentionally make the tree roots look lewd

[Anonymous No.7458465]

>>7458378
>cringe
Cringe.

[Anonymous No.7458560]

>>7458416
Looks pretty sick dude.

[Anonymous No.7458707]

Do you do commissions for FMs?

[Anonymous No.7458712]

>>7458707
That's retarded, just learn to make your own maps.

[Anonymous No.7458758]

>>7458712
No, fella, I mean Plutonia and his art.

[Anonymous No.7458790]

[Plutonia No.7458830]

>>7458707
What kind of commissions? Lowpoly 3d for meshes? 2d art? 3d animations? Daniel Thron -esque After Effects cutscenes?

[Anonymous No.7458919]

>>7456794
Lmao that was the part where I quit like 3 years ago too.
kek.

Got back into it again and I'm not scared of the faggy spiders anymore. Just one shot them in the dark with an arrow or fight them head on. Don't get spooked by the fact they jump they're retarded and wont hit you. The baby spiders are more annoying honestly since you cant hit the fuckers with a sword unless you crouch at the perfect time. Just shoot em.

[Anonymous No.7458954]

>>7458416
Sick

the last level of TDP i imagine exactly like a weird surreal 70 prog rock animation clip with a rogue robbing fucking satan.

Its very promethean like.

[Anonymous No.7459043]

>>7458830
You got a page with all the Thief pixel art?

[Plutonia No.7459062]

>>7459043
I probably should set up something that has all of it compiled

[Anonymous No.7459254]

>>7459062
DA, Twitter, TTLG, somewhere.

[Anonymous No.7459279]

>>7458297
>deadly shadows
Probably none.

[Anonymous No.7459517]

what's the opinion on t2fix? I'm not a purist just wondering if anything is particularly gaudy/ill-conceived?

[Anonymous No.7459641]

>>7459517
Don't install texture overhauls, they look like shit 100% of the time.

[Anonymous No.7459669]

>>7459517
Thief Enhancement Pack that comes with it is bad.

[Anonymous No.7459673]

>>7459517
Its fine for thief 1 as well, its light stuff. but people will tell you otherwise.

Try both.

I particularly like necroage for both 1 and 2. Its a bit darker but retains the feel of vanilla.

[Anonymous No.7459809]

>>7459673
no

[Anonymous No.7460138]

Was it kino?

[Anonymous No.7460837]

>>7460138
No. The 3d cutscenes were badly animated even at the time and failed to apply the series' art style. They would have been much better if they used silhouettes.

[Anonymous No.7460842]

>>7460138
>that gay tatoo
>those gay braids
>that absolute lack of atmosphere in the cutscene
Why do fan projects always seem like wish fulfilment? not even the good kind where the wish is wanting more, some faggy kind where they are the protag, or their waifu is the protag, or they dunk on their ideological enemies and everyone claps.

[Anonymous No.7460893]

What happened to Lord Bafford's Scepter? Cutty died did Garret just sell it? I think they should have considered bringing Lord Bafford back as a secondary antagonist out of left field and the Scepter should have been a relic of another ancient god.

[Anonymous No.7460924]

>>7460842
Zaya isn't a bad protagonist. They deliberately made her different from Garrett. The one thing that the modders didn't realize was the importance of not showing things. So they struggled to bring a lot of detail on screen with the cutscenes, which not only conflicts with the series' art style but also reveals all the shortcomings of the tech.

[Anonymous No.7460990]

>>7460924
>Zaya isn't a bad protagonis
Watching gameplay makes me thing otherwise.

[Anonymous No.7461058]

>>7460990
She's naïve and gullible and the campaign attempts to, albeit in a somewhat hamfisted way, depict her being groomed by someone who knows how to exploit her weaknesses. She prevails despite her flaws and learns from it. How is that a bad protagonist? Garrett's flaws also make him a better protagonist. His greed and ego blinded him to treachery and his stubborn denial laid the groundwork for many parts of the story. The only part of the "gameplay" that makes Zaya bad is that she uses a hammer instead of a blackjack like a moron

[Anonymous No.7461087]

>>7461058
Well fuck you too, now I'm going to have to play the campaign just to detail why she's cringe beyond her visual design which is pretty high up their on the cringe factor.

[Anonymous No.7461123]

>>7461087
>>7461058
>wealthy
>from a foreign land
>cringe af tattoos
>owns a ship for some reason
>wealthy enough to own a ship but doesn't bother to take any bodyguards with them even though the game is called thief
>cousin gets killed for seemingly no reason
>goes into the scariest fucking mansion she can find to hide out
>doesn't cower in a corner but keeps exploring an increasingly bizarre mansion
>meets an old man living in a cave and rape sensors don't go off
>decides to follow a completely convoluted plot for revenge instead of using her vast wealth to have a bunch of street thugs assassinated
>agrees to become a thief for some fuckin reason and becomes a skilled one in no time flat literally trusting an old man who has given her no reason whatsoever to trust him
>is so fucking elite that she has already ended a human life
>that's probably where she got that ultra cringe tattoo from
This is actually going beyond cringe and I'm having a laugh at how retarded this shit is, like do motivations and realistic goals just not apply to whoever wrote this, the narrative isn't even consistent, events just happen one after another. You can't even begin to compare this to Thief, Garret clearly had an aptitude and history for thievery and his motivation is not dying of starvation, he's good enough to get a keepers college scolarship, he leaves because he's always been alone and now has the skills to enrich himself, in Thief 1 he's clearly been a professional burglar for a while, he has a network of informants, suppliers and fences at his side and he even has a reputation, but his cynical attitude makes it sound like thievery has become his daily grind, he even does it out of necessity, like he can't quit his night job.
I could honestly pick this apart for days, and I'm on the first mission.

[Anonymous No.7461150]

>>7461123
I find it funny that not even a series like Thief can escape cringy mary sue fanfiction.

Is the gameplay even good?

[Anonymous No.7461171]

>>7461150
>>7461123
>>7461087
Yes, we all know T2X's story is fucking retarded. T2's story is also pretty retarded when you think about it. This isn't why people praise them. T2X is despite is shortcomings a pleasing campaign with good to great levels. It's a project with a scope that hasn't been matched yet in the Thief fandom.

[Anonymous No.7461182]

>>7461123
I always assumed that Zaya's stealth proficiency was related to the artifacts that her master gave her. Because when you start the game, all shadows hide you equally poorly. But suddenly after she's taught to "walk among the shadows" -she can become invisible in low light. Garrett doesn't just gain the power of stealth. He has it and is taught to use it effectively. Zaya literally doesn't have it and is given it. So it never really felt to me that she just learns things much more quickly than Garrett. It feels like there's some magical aid.

[Anonymous No.7461190]

>>7461182
Unless it's what the authors intended and explicitly said, you can take your musings to a fanfiction site

[Anonymous No.7461305]

>>7461190
You do realize you're talking about a series in which the vast majority of basic lore things are left unexplained on purpose, right? Everything has speculative elements to it. Though I suppose that in occam's razor, writer incompetence resulting in a plot hole is slightly simpler than a magician applying magic more than is being explicitly demonstrated.

[Anonymous No.7461313]

>>7461190
That is literally what happens in the game.

[Anonymous No.7461615]

>>7461150
Is the smiling uncomfortable because the haunt is uncomfortable or is it because the haunt is smiling at me?

[Anonymous No.7461641]

>>7461615
Look at his expression.

[Anonymous No.7461738]

>>7461641
He doesn't have any muscles to make an expression with.

[Anonymous No.7461786]

>>7461738
The original image with the three haunts still manages to have all three have different expression. I don't have it on hand. I just remember that it has one who's enthusiastically distracted by something interesting off-screen, another one who's back-tilt laughing his ass off, and the one in the middle awkwardly forcing a laugh

[Anonymous No.7461857]

>>7461171
>T2's story is also pretty retarded when you think about it. This isn't why people praise them.
T2's story might not be as good as TDP but it is still good. Much better than all the shenanigans in Deadly Shadows or any other stealth game that's for sure.

[Anonymous No.7462189]

>>7461857
At its best Thief 2 has amazing atmosphere.

The robots are fucking kino.

[Anonymous No.7462435]

>>7461171
T2's story is fine, I don't really think about it's weaknesses but it has clear themes and a slow build up with lots of telegraphing, even events within the game are logical, events don't just happen, the weakest link in Thief is probably the keepers, since they can just come out of nowhere to forward the plot at any moment, maybe there was a planned build up to something where The Keepers have knowledge of many different conflicting prophecies with Garret being the only thing that links all of these together, the Keepers have been purposefully leaking certain knowledge to Garret in order to manipulate the outcome of events effectively letting them choose what prophecies come to pass and create the future they desire. They do this through an imprisoned ancient being called the Silent one, it has no mouth but many eyes, when someone is in the prescence of the silent one only one of it's eyes is open and when they look into it they can see the future, different eyes open for different people and they can see conflicting prophecies which the Keepers record, when Garret is in the presence of the Silent one all of it's eyes are open.

>>7461182
>he gave her magic artifacts that he just happened to have that enhance her stealthy powers
That's still bad writing, having an explanation doesn't make it good or consistent, the writing is just bad, story elements are just convenient and happen for no reason, there's a serious lack of consistent logic for the events and the characters don't even really feel like they belong in their position
>travelling merchant into an assassin
>pick pocket into a keeper into a professional thief
One of these is kind of logically spaced, the other one isn't.

[Anonymous No.7462491]

I downloaded thief 1 and 2. I am pretty proficient with games and fine figuring things out for myself, i should be good right? I like going into games blind but you never know if there's some easy trick that they expect all players to do, or something.

[Anonymous No.7462496]

>>7462491
first tip is to USE THE FUCKING COMPASS, i see retarded zoomers play these games for the first time and get lost going in circles because they have zero sense of orientation in a 3d space
second tip is that you can silently creep walk by inching forward before a full step
third tip is you can write notes on your map by clicking on it
the tutorial will tell you everything you really need to know except for leaning, leaning forwards is extremely useful and can be used in conjunction with blackjacking or pickpocketing

[Anonymous No.7462503]

>>7462435
>spoiler
This is probably something that people already know but
The keepers didn't consciously manipulate Garrett. They thought that their job was to maintain balance by observing the future, but in reality everything is written and cannot be changed. The only reason they thought they were in control was that Gamall had selectively removed prophecies that would reveal her involvement. Every step from Garrett being recruited onwards was the prophecy of the True Keeper being fulfilled and the final step was the activation of the glyph that ended all glyphs. All the power of the keepers was in fact the inbalance in the universe, and Garrett was what snapped things back to normal, as he always would have been.

[Anonymous No.7462504]

>>7462491
When you get to the Thieves guild mission press ctrl,alt,shift,end keys all at once, no need to thank me.

[Anonymous No.7462509]

>>7462504
Only a cumguzzling faggot would skip any level.

[Anonymous No.7462513]

>>7462509
Only a cum guzzling faggout would play through the Thieves Guild, so you're damned if you do damned if you don't.

[Anonymous No.7462514]

>>7462496
hey thank you!!

>>7462504
I'm not going to be skipping anything the first time i play. these games were regarded as classics so i'll experience the highs and lows

[Anonymous No.7462516]

>>7462496
>the tutorial will tell you everything you really need to know except for leaning, leaning forwards is extremely useful and can be used in conjunction with blackjacking or pickpocketing
That sentence is kinda ironic, considering that the tutorial does not actually teach pickpocketing or blackjacking. The Thief 2 tutorial does but I hate "story implemented tutorials". Every game should have a separate training level that you can just skip. I hate it when a regular mission or quest is contrived into a linear format in order to force introduction of every mechanic. It's probably a big reason why many people dropped Jedi Fallen Order before the 30 minute mark. And the reason why Hitman Blood Money has the worst training level in the history of videogames.

[Anonymous No.7462520]

>>7462514
The problem is that Thieves guild isn't part of the base game, it was added in Thief gold, Thief was a classic before that level was added, it's like when someone remakes a game and adds something really bad to it, the only reason to play the Thieves guild is to understand why it's so hated.

[Anonymous No.7462529]

>>7462520
Bullshit, and this was already discussed to death in the previous /vr/ thread.

[Anonymous No.7462530]

>>7462520
well then i really appreciate that you told me this! i wouldn't have known.

>>7462516
desu, i'm of the opinion that mandatory tutorials suck in general and that most games should just have an instruction manual accessible from the pause menu.

[Anonymous No.7462547]

>>7462530
As someone who has actually played both, Gold is just a polished version of TDP with 3 extra maps. TDP is missing basic things like sounds when dropping bodies, the texturework and brushwork on some maps are worse, and the AI patrols were reworked in some maps like Cragscleft to be much better. Preferring TDP is just posturing and people who use GoldtoDark aren't actually playing TDP.

[Anonymous No.7462551]

>>7462547
well i have gold anyway, i just might skip the added gold levels if they suck. It's nice that they made the base game better with gold.

[Anonymous No.7462557]

>>7462551
They don't suck, Song of the Caverns is one of the best missions in the series. Mage's Tower is weak but piss easy, and Thieves' Guild is good and gets hate because retards go in circles underground without a compass and get lost.

[Anonymous No.7462563]

>>7462529
That's not bullshit though, the level is trash and a chore to play through, and there are multiple levels with problems like this but Thieves Guild is the absolute worst, it's puzzle is bullshit and the level is sprawly but used to bad effect, if you want the full Thief experience it isn't required, it isn't even a major part of the story, it doesn't introduce characters or even tie into other levels, at least Lord Bafford's Mansion and Cragscleft are linked, and Assassins and the Bone Hoard are linked too, and Assassins even goes over character building elements reiterated upon in Thieves guild as well as is a great level and on top of that you get new equipment in that level. For all of it's sins Thieves guild is also superfluous and the only thing you lose from not playing it as far as the Thief experience goes is not checking the box that you played through that level. if you step outside of that things get much worse and very quickly.

>>7462530
Whatever, just play it anyway, the person above you sounds like they are having an aneurism, you playing it may stop that from happening.

>>7462547
I never said I prefered TDP because I don't, the Thieves guild is just a bad level, the Mages Guild is better but the mages towers are a slog after the first playthrough, and the fire one makes things so much worse, but Caven of Songs is easily amongst the games best levels, if not the best

[Anonymous No.7462574]

>>7462563
>the level is trash
It simply wasn't designed for Valve playtesters that take a right at every turn.

[Anonymous No.7462593]

>>7462574
My problem is that the sprawl isn't valuable to the level, instead of a really good easily readable mansion it's a large sewer with little actually going on, it's sprawly for the sake of being sprawly, at least Bonehoard has a linear section that leads to the main area, at least The Lost City has you exploring an ancient forgotten culture, Thieves Guild expects you explore a sewer while solving a puzzle and the sewer ins uneventful and uninteresting to look at, it's like a microcosm for modern open world design, go through the bland world to reach the event, do the event go through the bland world for the next event.

[Anonymous No.7462602]

>>7462593
useless reductionism that says nothing, i'd like to see a modern videogame that takes place in a large underground sewer network full of thieves instead of a large open island with points of interests and outposts marked on the map

[Anonymous No.7462608]

>>7462503
The problem with that is that Thief 3 sucks on so many different levels, and even though it's cool that Gamal is the worlds boogeyman, and the game references them via childrens stories, this is just a repeat of the trickster, and doesn't feel like it's own thing. Another problem with Gamal is that they absolve the Keepers of wrongdoing, I prefer my gay idea because it makes them stuck in the middle, they have good motivations but they are playing with things that maybe shouldn't be played with at all, and they are actively subverting people while doing this, do the ends really justify the means, if they manipulated events now could they not have created a worse situation down the line.
With Thiefs linear nature Thief 3 probably does it more fittingly in that singular sense.

[Anonymous No.7462619]

The idea for the thieves guild is amazing, but the level itself is shit.
Its fucking 1997 Thief had way too big ambitions.

A maze like sewer level, mix in chaotic elements like the gutter or blightown, ancient caves sealed off by keepers, richer parts for Guild leaders, like a buried forgotten Hammer factory.

They wanted something the dark engine could not provide. Yet.

Same with the opera house but that level is better. its still a bit sparse.

[Anonymous No.7462635]

>>7462602
>useless reductionism that says nothing
I'm a game developer, your Jedi tricks don't work on me.

[Anonymous No.7462638]

>>7462635
nobody cares

[Anonymous No.7462650]

>>7462638
I don't care either, but your retarded arguments are shit, don't @ me until you can field a good one.

[Anonymous No.7462651]

>>7462650
your argument is that it's like a modern game, point me to a modern game like thieves' guild please

[Anonymous No.7462674]

>>7462651
>your argument is that it's like a modern game
>claims that i was being reductionist
It outlined multiple points and you claim one part of my argument which you misinterpreted is my whole argument. If I wanted to argue with a retard I'd go on breadtube.

[Anonymous No.7462682]

>>7462674
I understood you point anon. It not a perfect comparison but I see what you are getting at.

Because even compared to modern levels Thieves guild layout is quite amazing. Or its effort.

[Anonymous No.7462701]

>>7462682
Confirming you didn't understand my point thanks.

[Anonymous No.7462703]

>>7462701
I am not the anon you were responding to.

[Anonymous No.7462867]

>>7462574
>It simply wasn't designed for Valve playtesters that take a right at every turn.
Kek. I posted that screenshot in a Legacy of Kaine thread the other day.

[Anonymous No.7462893]

>>7462608
Speaking of gay ideas, I've had a rough concept of a story and theme of an actual Thief 4 that manages to be a sequel to Deadly Shadows while also somehow actually escalating. Sure, that can only be achieved with some cheesy tropes but in my case it allows more interesting game design.

[Anonymous No.7463029]

>>7458465
>Cringe.
yikes

[Anonymous No.7463045]

>>7463029
>yikes
taffin' cripes

[Anonymous No.7463173]

I never found thieves' guild hard. I never got stuck in it.

that being said:
it's just an extremely boring mission. it's visually substandard. the architecture is shit, there's literally furniture facing into walls like in babby's first FM, the sewers look samey, and the mansions fail to resemble actual buildings.
in addition to that, the entire thing is just a massive slog. without getting stuck or backtracking, it still takes time to work yourself through it. there's no real reward for your efforts except getting to see more ugly architecture.
it's just a mission that overstays its welcome

[Anonymous No.7463185]

>>7463173
The beginning is cool. Reminds me of the demo.

[Anonymous No.7463257]

>>7462893
>that manages to be a sequel to Deadly Shadows
That's doable but it's a question of why, TDS shouldn't have existed in the first place, I was actually embarassed when I read that they had original staff working on it, especially writing/scenario staff, then again Invisible War has original staff too.
Do tell us your idea, I will read it surely.

[Anonymous No.7464065]

>>7463257
>TDS shouldn't have existed in the first place, I was actually embarassed when I read that they had original staff working on it
How exactly is it so bad? The only things that I thought never fit were the shoehorning of stuff into the Kurshok citadel and Moira mansion to give you a reason to go there, and the stupid justification to go to the clock tower. Those seem like Thief 2 -style rewrites to make unfitting levels fit the story. The rest of the story itself isn't bad.

[Anonymous No.7464247]

>>7452662
>I wouldn't call the first Thief game steampunk
I absolutely hate that people just call it steampunk because they cant think for themselves/cant think of a better descriptor
I'd call it industrial fantasy if anything
or just industrial

[Anonymous No.7464263]

>>7464247
I like to describe Thief 1 as noir medieval fantasy during its industrial revolution myself.

[Anonymous No.7464286]

>>7455530
It was comfy especially because I played it on a rainy day, but overall not great. My enjoyment was soured by the lockpick frobbing bug which meant I had to completely restart the mission with the 1.2 install and the cultist crypt with all the invisible skeletons was a fucking pain to ghost

[Anonymous No.7464307]

>>7458297
DS is so forgettable, thats the problem
I played it more recently than I've played 1 and 2 and I can only remember
>kinda the first mission?
>a clocktower? i dont remember the details
>the island mansion vaguely
>cradle
thats it, really

[Anonymous No.7464345]

>>7464065
I'd need to play it again to fully collect my thoughts on it but I pointed out already that I both like and hate the antagonist, I hate the studio that worked on it, I hate the way it implements the overworld, the timeframe of the game, the level design, but that's a given since maps are no longer a singular contiguous space but are now segregated because of another reason why I hate the game and that's the fact that it's an Xbox port. It fucked up on so many levels that it's just painful. I didn't feel like it lived up to the original titles or that it was what Thief should have been with the limitations of older hardware removed.

[Anonymous No.7464353]

>>7464345
I agree with those criticisms, but that still doesn't mean in my mind that "Deadly Shadows shouldn't exist." I still think it should. Just without the shitty open world, the segmented levels, simplified inventory and equipment, arcadeized objectives, clunky movement caused by unnecessary 3rd person mode etc. I don't mind the story of TDS. It just should have been told through a game made the way the previous two were.

[Anonymous No.7464450]

>>7464353
I just started playing it again and I don't even remember the first mission existing, my memory is definitely fuzzy. I think I can make a good argument about the stories feeling disconnected with Thief 1 building into Thief 2 a lot better than Thief 1 and 2 build into Thief 3, and that events could have come to a head a lot better with references all the way back to Thief 1 that are more than just a refernce to events but show events in a different light. in that sense Thief 3 feels vestigial compared to Thief 1 and Thief 2 feeling connected.
I'm going to have to replay the game to actually validate this though, since I don't remember it very well, it's kind of shit.

[Anonymous No.7464605]

>>7464263
works for me, anythings better than steampunk
the only steampunky thing i can think of in thief is the fact that the Children of Karras run on boilers

[Anonymous No.7464607]

>>7464450
literally the only reason i remember the first mission is because i tried so many times as a kid to get into DS and kept dropping it partway though the first mission
i must've tried like 4 or 5 times to play damn mission, it took me like 10 years and the sneaky upgrade to finally push through the rest of the game
it wasn't worth it

[Anonymous No.7464628]

post yfw dront's missions finally clicked for you

[Anonymous No.7464654]

>>7464628
>dront's
what missions?

[Anonymous No.7464693]

>>7464628

[Anonymous No.7464967]

All right, here it is then. My cheesy retcon-ridden idea for a Deadly Shadows sequel. Tags: "Ancient evil awakens", "Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal", "Muh light & dark binary"

[Anonymous No.7464987]

>>7464654
I think the Plot campaign is a good starting point. Captured by Beasts is one of his better stand alone missions.

prepare to be filtered if your standards are too high. I only learned to appreciate him once I reached the bottom of the barrel for T1 missions.
the guy's trademark style is labyrinths made from huge, featureless corridors, through which you're supposed to bunnyhop. most of his stuff is very poorly rated.

here's an old interview with him, courtesy of Athalle on ttlg:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0H95qzsBjY&feature=emb_title

[Anonymous No.7465031]

>>7464967
And you guys have the audacity to criticize Thief 2X's plot.

[Anonymous No.7465054]

>>7465031
Everything Thief 2 onwards has twisted itself into knots to maximize the potential of gameplay and level design even if it makes the story stupid. Ion Storm had a city of underwater fish people in a game with an interconnected world and no swimming. So they had to somehow make it so that the city was placed underground and not underwater, and right under the City, and the excuse for Garrett to go there was "lol some keeper went there and died, you need his stuff". Then they wanted a clock tower level just because it was in their ancient technical demo and didn't want to waste it so it was "lol the tower is like an arrow and it should point at things". In Thief 2 you rob a bank just so that you'd have a reason to rob a mansion next. You go to a lighthouse island just so that you could go to an underground city back in the place where you just came from.
Thief 1 is the only game that was written first and levels were made around the story. Which is why its story makes the most sense but can't decide what kind of game it's trying to be. Personally I'd rather have stupid excuses to have interesting gameplay than interesting reasons to have stupid gameplay.

[Anonymous No.7465068]

>>7465054
That's all fine and dandy but that's not what my post was about. What it was about is that the story you posted is horseshit and honestly some of the worst fanfic I've ever read.

[Anonymous No.7465070]

>>7465054
>but can't decide what kind of game it's trying to be
this is so overblown. every adventuring segment involves stealth, and besides that the core gameplay is as much about navigating laybrinths as it is knocking out guards. the robots in 2 are no different from the burracks in 1.

[Anonymous No.7465098]

>>7463173
shipping and receiving doesn't get enough hate. the entire thing is built around a really dull, repetitive mechanic of inputting warehouse codes, felt like I was playing euro-logistics simulator.

[Anonymous No.7465103]

>>7465068
Yeah, but I still think that it would be interesting to somehow justify implementing dynamic response AI that affects things past loading a save, and the use of light as concealment and inverse light sources.
>>7465070
The abundance of empty and pointless areas and the presence of a hyper-linear final mission indicate that they really needed to just force some of the levels into existence based on what the story demanded.

[Anonymous No.7465132]

>>7465098
I hate it because it's constructed like an amusement park: every storeroom is like a ride or a stand, with its own little story and/or puzzle behind it.

I see the point of the mission: after the opening mission, which throws you into a "typical" mansion heist, LGS wants to introduce ourselves to the city and the changes it has undergone since we last saw it. by having it take place in a warehouse, they can tell us about globalisation, industrialisation, the decline of the hammerite order and the rise of the mechanists.
in this regard, the mission does its job. it's still a fucking slog that lacks a unifying idea beyond "type in codes to explore every storeroom"

[Anonymous No.7465167]

>>7465054
after going through 1 and 2 again recently I think I've realized that I don't really care for the vanilla stealth that much, at best it's tolerable. playing it normally guards are so forgiving and easy to knock out that dealing with them becomes more of a perfunctory chore than an interesting challenge. just kind of gets in the way of what I actually enjoy about the games, parkouring around weird labyrinths.

[Anonymous No.7465179]

>>7465098
Shipping and Receiving is really such a dull level. Feels like one of the most closed-in/small levels. It doesn't have much interesting going on.

However, they also did the extremely lazy usage of the same map back-to-back near the end of Thief 2, which is just as creatively bankrupt.

[Anonymous No.7465186]

>>7464628
>>7464987
Stop trying to fool poor souls into playing those.

[Anonymous No.7465238]

>>7465186
filtered

[Anonymous No.7465360]

>>7465167
There is truth in that, but its the age of the game showing, the atmosphere and guards sounds remains great.

If the game was somehow even more difficult I think the vanilla stealth had in a modern engine great opportunity for even more simulation

[Anonymous No.7465381]

>>7465167
faggot

[Anonymous No.7465991]

[Anonymous No.7466090]

>>7465031
That doesn't make T2X any less shit, or any of it's criticisms any less valid, why are you defending abject trash?

[Anonymous No.7466280]

>>7464967
Thief 1 has 3 arguably 4 factions backed by a supernatural entity and in each subsequent title they become the main focus, with the Mechanists really just being a splinter of the Hammerites, which you then retread, you also add in an extra faction that previously didn't exist, another sin, the AI reaction element would be highly exploitable and could be game breaking, if they move guards around the level you could be seen on purpose to pull more guards, if they can make more guards then they could potentially make an infinite amount of guards and overload the engine, or make it impossible to sneak past certain locations, especially when there is only one route, or you could just move between locations to reset them.
Why does the man who seemingly wants to create an exact science around predictability decide to completely go against that science and field a completely pointless last stand?
The Ikaruga stealth is a good addition.
Ultimately your story doesn't feel like it meshes with the way that T1 and T2 create a link, the rise of Karass is directly linked to the power gap that arises after the Hammerites face great losses fighting the Pagans and the Woodsie lord, the introduction of your factions seems kind of arbitrary other than the weak link of prophecy, which T3 uses for Gamal.
Some of your ideas are good though.
Still better than T2X, which is just kind of outright nonsensical, it's one of those events just happen stories, literally the worst thing you can do.

[Anonymous No.7466309]

>>7464628
>>7464987
>>7465238
I wouldn’t wish a Dront mission on my worst enemy. I’d rather play cardia filth than dront because at least they try.

How he managed to get an interview for “our beloved authors” despite being a meme now confuses me beyond my years.

[Anonymous No.7466645]

>>7466090
I just find it particularly funny when you shit on something while your own stuff is even worse. I will take T2X's bad story over that crap any day, thank you.

[Anonymous No.7466682]

>>7466309
I would play a Dront mission over a cardia mission, simply because I can bunny hop to end them faster.

[Anonymous No.7466715]

>>7466090
when you're saying t2x are you referring to the game metal age or something else?

[Anonymous No.7466725]

>>7466715
>>7460138

[Anonymous No.7466760]

>>7466645
That's not my story, and that story is far better than T2X.

[Anonymous No.7466990]

Do I need that unofficial patch if I want to play FMs or can I just use the Steam version without anything else?

[Anonymous No.7466998]

>>7466990
just use tfix lite, dunno if steam version comes with newdark

[Anonymous No.7467042]

>>7466998
It doesn't, Steam is olddark.

[Anonymous No.7467576]

Other than T2X is there any fan campaigns?

[Anonymous No.7467637]

>>7467576
Black Frog and such come to mind but they're basically just a collection of FMs
I haven't gotten around to Tx2 yet but I imagine Deaths Cold Embrace and upcoming Black Parade are more in line with what you're after

[Anonymous No.7467758]

>>7467576
An oldie but goldie is the Calendra duology. One T1 mission and a campaign of three T2 missions. They have decent and challenging level design and good atmosphere, but the story and characters are about as cringe as my Thief sequel concept.

[Anonymous No.7467767]

>>7467758
>but the story and characters are about as cringe as my Thief sequel concept.
this
Cistern is a fantastic mission, but the second a low poly model with huge cleavage appeared and then garrett fucks her in the ending i knew the story was fanficy shit
i dont even remember Legacy in the slightest to be honest

[Anonymous No.7467782]

IT'S A QUARTER PAST THE WITCHING HOUR GARRETT
WHAT TOOK YOUUUU

[Anonymous No.7467792]

>>7467767
I really like A Meeting With Basso. It's a good daytime mission that actually uses lightning for stealth properly. The city layout in Midnight in Murkbell is also really nice. Winter's Eve has a good atmosphere and I like the fact that it takes place on the same street as the Thief 1 epilogue.

[Anonymous No.7467798]

>>7467792
>that entire post
fuck me i dont remember a single thing about Legacy
come to think of it most t2fms from the old infographic are hard to remember for me, while most t1fms I remember really well, idk why
Guess I should replay Legacy, I remember not being that into it at the time which is why I've forgotten most likely

[Anonymous No.7467803]

>>7467798
>>7467792
Winters Eve is the only one I remember now that I've jogged my memory a little
>same street as the Thief 1 epilogue.
thats cool, I never knew that
is that stated somewhere?

[Anonymous No.7467840]

>>7467798
I think the most interesting part of Legacy is its vast amounts of secret optional content. All three missions have simple objectives, but tons of side stuff tucked away.
>>7467803
Garrett and Artemus walk though specific parts of the City, showing different landmarks. Those are replicated in one way or another in Winter's Eve. The most prominent example is the bridge, underneath which a homeless man is warming by a steel drum fire, illuminated by a collector tower that lights up the blizzard.

[Anonymous No.7468049]

>>7467576
Rocksbourg and Death's Cold Embrace

[Anonymous No.7468145]

Does anyone actually like the writing in Lady Rowena's FMs?

[Anonymous No.7468241]

>>7468145
iirc most of them are extremely bleak and grimdark.
in contrast, garrett is completely altruistic and helps people with the most trivial things for no compensation. there are a few "odd" objectives such as not blackjacking the pregnant woman in the tower.

additionally, I've noticed that all of the missions feature at least once man who kills his wife. in seven sisters, it even happens twice

[Anonymous No.7468313]

>>7468241
It would seem that a lot of people have misunderstood Garrett's character. He isn't as bad as he wants to think he is, but still the vast majority of his motivation to avoid evil is due to his ego, not out of morality. Murder is what those scrub thieves from the guilds do. He wants to pat himself on the back by doing things that are more difficult than what others do. None of the extended objective descriptions say that guards and servants don't deserve to die. They just say that killing is unprofessional and messy.

[Anonymous No.7468339]

>>7468241
I was thinking more about the flowery diaries you find written in a way only a woman could write. Also the Tower feels like some sort of deep seated sexual fantasy.

[Anonymous No.7468752]

>>7452575
Why did technology regress so much in TDS? It feels more primitive then the first game even.

[Anonymous No.7468757]

What does /vr/ think of the peak of the series?

[Anonymous No.7468758]

>>7468752
Its a console game by a different team. It had some lgs elements, but its one of the earliest games warning that the next 10 years would be old pc franchises prostituting themselves for consoles.

A shame but its life.

[Anonymous No.7468783]

>>7468752
You mean setting tech of game tech? Game tech wise, it's because the levels can't be as large or have as much detail because of console limitations. The lighting system is way better and where all of their processing budget went into. Setting tech wise, don't know. There's some in story handwaving about how people have turned against technology and how the City is going through a slump after Karras's shenanigans, so stuff like security cameras and alarm systems, which were present even in the first game are now gone. All in all, don't really like Thief 3's setting as much. There's no variety to it and everything looks samey. The City just feels way less interesting now.

[Anonymous No.7468802]

If you were making a new Thief game what would be your twist?

[Anonymous No.7468803]

>>7468783
Yeah, I really didn't like how colorless they made everything in TDS, but that was industry trend at the time.

[Anonymous No.7468813]

>>7468802
It certainly would not be fucking gay dishonored 1 and 2.
Maybe something similar to gloomwood that is mixing bloodborne elements. Maybe something completely different. To me Thief is all about removing as much as possible the fucking disgusting ui and wallhacks of modern games and immerse you in the world.

[Anonymous No.7468848]

How do you play this game, anons? Do you quick save at every turn and load whenever something unexpected happens? Or do you just roll with your failures and kill/flee if you need to?

[Anonymous No.7468882]

>>7468802
Dedicated computer hardware specifically made to graphically process in a limited capacity the actual vision of AI characters. Shape, motion and face recognition algorithms would be used to give real vision to the enemies. The player would actually hide by not being visible. Camouflage would be literal camouflage, and enemies could even mistake normal shapes and incidental movements for threats.

[Anonymous No.7468885]

>>7468848
I roll with my failures cause I am already a ghost from so many years of thief.

[Anonymous No.7468898]

>>7468848
The latter but if I get spotted in a way that I'm fucked for the rest of the mission, I try to swordfight the guards then reload.

[Anonymous No.7468930]

>slide on keybind
What the fuck is this for?

[Anonymous No.7468932]

>>7468930
strafing when people still turned with the keyboard

[Anonymous No.7468936]

>>7468932
But there is a strafe key

[Anonymous No.7468938]

>>7468936
the toggle makes the turn keys strafe keys if i remember correctly

[Anonymous No.7468962]

>>7468930
If I remember correctly it lets you lean in all directions. You hold it down and use the movement keys to pick a direction to lean in. If it's the key I'm thinking of I use to slam it down and do 360's by cycling through WASD over and over again.

[Anonymous No.7469001]

>>7468882
sounds incredible not-fun, especially from a first person perspective

[Anonymous No.7469049]

>>7469001
A lot of people online, especially know-it-all armchair developers, think that in order to make a game good you have to make it as complex as possible. For stealth games, these people believe that making them more realistic makes them better. It really doesn't. For reference, playing TDM with the all the AI settings set to hardcore makes it an absolute chore to play.

[Anonymous No.7469059]

>>7469001
Unless you have an inverted-camera based 360° Light Gem that indicates directions that are safe. It's hard to explain but when you look into the direction of an enemy, if the light gem shows black based on your background, you can't be seen from that direction. If it shows white you can be seen. It would also help not being retarded and knowing how the concept of hiding works irl.

[Anonymous No.7469168]

>>7468882
I don't think anyone plays Thief for its ultra realism, anon.

[Anonymous No.7469223]

>>7468049
>Rocksbourg
It says it's a six mission campaign but I can only find 3. Is it unfinished?

[Anonymous No.7469263]

>>7469223
It will never be finished. Doesn't matter though.

[Anonymous No.7469276]

>>7469263
>Doesn't matter though
Why do you say that?

[Anonymous No.7469280]

>>7469276
Hard to go anywhere after mission 3, I can see why DrK stopped making them and focused on one off missions afterwards.

[Anonymous No.7469292]

>>7468848
Depends on how many times I've failed before and how long it's been since my last save. If I get far into a mission and get killed, I'm not starting over and going through dumb shit again.

[Anonymous No.7469298]

>>7469263
>he doesn't know

[Anonymous No.7469307]

>>7469049
You can supplement a realistic simulation with debuffs for enemy perception. Just because the simulation of their vision is complex doesn't mean it needs to be unreasonably hard. Thief is already based on this. It has a full range of visibility and audibility but it's still enjoyable to play because the AI is relatively inattentive even in the presence of such mechanical depth. A very realistic stealth model that properly processes vision could be similarly made playable and not excessively challenging.

[Anonymous No.7469332]

Just playing through Thief 3 now, is there a way to find who was responsible for it and punch them in the face. This is the complete and utter rape of a classic, there's no fucking logic behind any of it, the city streets don't even feel like Thief environments, everything is ultra crampt, it reminds me a bit of No More Heroes where you slog through the overworld to play the missions, but that's on purpose and the missions are actually fun, the missions in Thief 3 are not fun, they are like 1/4 the size of T2/T1 missions and so far none of them are interesting to move around, the best level was the Hammerite Cathedral, it's nice that it's layout is in the shape of a hammer, but every level is just tiny hallways again and again, there's no space to move around, even the skyboxes are boring to look out.

[Anonymous No.7469336]

>>7469332
Now you know how many felt during invisible war, Bioshit era.

[Anonymous No.7469343]

>>7469336
I don't hate Bioshock because that's at least it's own game, if they want to make their own retarded shit they can go ahead, Invisible War and Deadly Shadows are both sequels, but Invisible War at least has NG Resonance, I can't say T3 has anything with that sort of value.

[Anonymous No.7469350]

>>7469343
It had brosious ambient sound and the cradle. And the real time shadows were a bigger thing in that time. Although already seen previously on pc games like nocturne or severance.

But yes, the tone is very dumbed down, the writing is less stelar. Its honestly on par with earlier splinter cells. Although Splinter cell controlled better.

[Anonymous No.7469362]

>>7469343
Invisible War is genuinely a better game than DS in my opinion. Part of that being a mediocre sequel to DX is not as painful to me as a mediocre sequel to Thief.

[Anonymous No.7469372]

>>7469350
SC1 had tighter level design and better use of its dynamic lights. TDS is too easy and while it has more freedom over SC, it's hobbled compared to 1 and 2.

[Anonymous No.7469381]

>>7469362
I hate how invisible war looks, the guns the weapons the cramped min console sized levels for negative ram xbox.
But Sheldon knows how to write for games, and the sense of distrust and paranoia is strong in IW. Even with its more sci fiish story.

NU Deus ex is much more tame compared to it.

>>7469372
Kinda Splinter Cell are really good games for such early consoles. The og trilogy are classy as fuck games. And it has Thief dna all over them.

[Anonymous No.7469391]

>>7469332
Yeah, it blows. Are you at least playing with the Sneaky Upgrade?

[Anonymous No.7469401]

>>7469332
enjoy getting to the most hyped mission of all time and finding out its a boring ghost little girl fetch quest

[Anonymous No.7469414]

>>7469350
Stencil shadows are a nice feature but they aren't used anywhere near as well as they could have been thanks to the games level design, which on top of being limited by level size is just kind of shit on it's own.

>>7469362
Invisible War has feels more DX than DS feels Thief, even the game doesn't follow Thief 1s or 2s visual design, the first mansion is a stonework castle, compare this to Lord Baffords which has actual interesting architectural motifs and is yellow with marble flooring and his throne room, and later levels feature more of this kind of variety with bright colours in wealthy areas and more drab ones in poor areas, but so far T3 is just stonework, did they not get the memo? did they fire all the level designers? this is such a crock of shit, the wealthy don't even feel very wealthy.

>>7469391
Yes, but this doesn't fix the games general shittyness.

[Anonymous No.7469421]

I wonder if square would pull the plug on a reboot Thief 3 made in dark engine. They dont seem to care about the dark mod.

[Anonymous No.7469427]

>>7469421
Dark Mod has no direct references to Thief to avoid legal issues.

[Anonymous No.7469431]

>>7469421
They can't do anything about The Dark Mod, why not use TDM for a T3? the engine has more features.

[Anonymous No.7469434]

>>7469431
I dont like the dark mod, the sword is jank and the movement is not as nice as in dark engine.

[Anonymous No.7469441]

>>7469421
I was pissed when the training mission didn't even feel like it's a building. Just a videogame level. I ended up eventually sketching out a proper Cashing Inn that attempts to actually represent an inn type setting. It is still linear though, because of the tutorial nature of the mission. -As much as I hate story-implemented tutorials.

[Anonymous No.7469458]

>>7467840
I'll give it another go
Through most of the t2fms I feel like I was kinda playing them out of obligation rather than truly enjoying them, theres a few I'd like to revisit

[Anonymous No.7469459]

>>7469434
It's open source, maybe someone will change it. The Dark Mod does feel nice to move around in, rip bunny hopping.

>>7469441
That looks really good, why does it look like the Inn is off on a back street?

[Anonymous No.7469462]

>>7469434
>the sword is jank
the sword feels great, it's like mount and blade combat

[Anonymous No.7469463]

>>7469431
tdm is kind of ass honestly. it chugs even on powerful machines, movement and BJ are super janky, and dark engine has maximum comfy nostalgia bonus anyway.

[Anonymous No.7469470]

>>7469459
>>7469462

Guys please be truthful, the assets in the dark mod as really mediocre. I am not complaining its a work of pure love that had its time but come one.
Dark engine or nothing. Since a modern engine thief is never happening.
Fuck I would prefer the engine from glommwood

[Anonymous No.7469473]

>>7469463
No. Movement is fine, they were never going to replicate Dark Engine's detached head/body biped system. Performance is completely fine too unless you use one of the meme settings like soft shadowing which does not belong in id tech 4.

[Anonymous No.7469480]

>>7468783
>>7468803
I hate DS so fucking much man
Sure it has some decent things in it, although the only one of those I can say with confidence is the Cradle, but I'll never get over the sheet disappointment and anger, doesn't help that it was the first time I'd experienced this level of disappointment as a kid
I just cant look past it

[Anonymous No.7469483]

>>7469470
No, the assets stand out as being exceptionally well made for an open source project with no money behind it. I can't think of anything comparable quality wise as far as free games go.

[Anonymous No.7469485]

>>7469463
It kinda reminds me of deadly shadows too much desu.
Stupid jank blackjack physics, jank movement.

[Anonymous No.7469487]

>>7469459
>why does it look like the Inn is off on a back street?
I don't remember exactly. I drew the map ten years ago. Most likely it's because the original inn is like that. It wouldn't be a big change to make it so that there's a major avenue near the inn.

[Anonymous No.7469489]

>>7468848
Save and load, ghosting rules are pure autism and there are a lot of instances in fm's and even the main game where you can fuck yourself without a save, I dont see the point in ironmanning unless you're a turbo sperg

[Anonymous No.7469491]

>>7469483

Okay whatever you say anon. Jesus fuck doom 3 engine of all things.

[Anonymous No.7469493]

>>7469483
And mission quality depends on the FM maker.

[Anonymous No.7469503]

>>7469298
>>he doesn't know
never been funny

[Anonymous No.7469505]

>>7469473
I'm glad you like it, but every time I give TDM another shot it's always a big disappointment, last time I tried was when the painter's wife came out. I'd probably try it again if a big campaign for it came out but honestly I really doubt I'd stick with it because the people that work on it seem to love all the stuff I hate about it.

[Anonymous No.7469508]

>>7469463
I never really got why it chugs either, they keep talking about new optimizations but it still runs as bad as ever.

>>7469470
I think Dark Mods biggest problem is that few of the missions are any good, most of the ones I've played are closer to Thief 3, and that includes the overuse of stonework.
I think there's potential there, I'm surprised the devs behind it don't flip a commercial game out of the engine in order to put money back into advancing the engine itself. Open source is great but Blender shows us that money makes it much better.
>Fuck I would prefer the engine from glommwood
Unreal 4 sucks ass.

>>7469491
Idtech 4 was great for it's time though.

[Anonymous No.7469512]

>>7469493

It still feels cramped like DS, and I bet you cant pull the size of the dark engine.

Maybe now would be the time to use another engine, unreal or whatever. Dishonored certainly felt the size of what Thief levels should be.

>>7469508
Yes for its time it was great. Again I dont want to dump on them too much cause its a true labour of love. But damn the dark engine still had legs.

[Anonymous No.7469517]

>>7469491
>doom 3 engine of all things
An engine known for its exceptional dynamic lighting that is well commented and open source.

>>7469512
>It still feels cramped like DS, and I bet you cant pull the size of the dark engine.
Somehow I feel like you've never played pre-NewDark. Maps like A Better Tomorrow would just outright crash if you got onto the rooftops and looked down.

[Anonymous No.7469525]

>>7469517
>Somehow I feel like you've never played pre-NewDark

I am comparing it to Thief 1 and 2 vanilla anon. Why are you defending it I have no idea. Its not going anywhere anyway.

[Anonymous No.7469532]

>>7469525
Dark Mod can support larger maps than T1 vanilla.

[Anonymous No.7469538]

>>7469427
how do we get away with FMs? I've honestly never even thought about Square and how they feel about Thief legally

[Anonymous No.7469539]

>>7469512
The Dark Engine has legs because of NewDark, overall because it's open source The Dark Mod is superior, the engine has more features, but if you don't like the movement well it would be nice if someone fixed that but that's would require someone who wants to and knows how.

The Dark Mod should allow for T1/T2 size levels, Votla 1 and Volta 2 are quite large, Volta 2 is larger than most maps in T1, but not as large as the level it emulates which is The Lost City. You did play the Volta maps right?

[Anonymous No.7469552]

>>7469539

Dark mod looks like crap and its not going anywhere. The animations for example are atrocious.
Seriously at this point it would be better to use a modern engine.

People will continue doing fan missions while it gathers dust because it looks like crap.

[Anonymous No.7469553]

>>7469538
modding as a rule is in enough of a legal gray area that no one really goes through the effort to shut it down - it's much easier to just make unmoddable games. TDM as a standalone game is different because you can play it without ever having bought a thief game (or doom).

[Anonymous No.7469585]

>>7469441
Did you ever actually consider working on this map?

>>7469552
The biggest problem with TDM's visuals are the fan missions are almost entirely shit, they look like T3 and less like T1/T2, if that changes the game can look legitimately good, just shuffle in new assets for the characters and the game would look significantly better.

[Anonymous No.7469589]

>>7469585
The amount of work necessary for new assets\animations would be staggering.

Might as well use a modern engine.

[Anonymous No.7469603]

>>7469589
>might as well use a new engine
>because the assets and animations don't look right
This is surely some kind of trickery.

[Anonymous No.7469607]

>>7469603
You must be one of the creators. I am mean who the fuck would defend that crap so ferociously.
Fine anon, I will be waiting for it to not look like shit.

[Anonymous No.7469615]

>>7469489
>ghosting rules are pure autism
I'm a ghoster and I agree. "Rules" are for games and I like ghosting because of its tactical advantages. If a guard happens to hear something and audibly exclaims "must have been rats" -I take their word for it. That's not a failure state. Also, animals and zombies can't file police reports so there's no point in going out of your way to not be seen by them.
>I dont see the point in ironmanning unless you're a turbo sperg
Ironmanning makes the game more tense and compels you to improvise when adverse conditions arise. Instead of immediately reloading when something doesn't go exactly to plan, you adapt. And if your ghosting attempt fails, you deal with it.

[Anonymous No.7469619]

>>7469585
>Did you ever actually consider working on this map?
Yeah until I actually read up on the function of DromEd. Fortunately someone is working on a more modern map editing tool for the Dark Engine that works like an actual 3d editing program and not like condensed programmed autism.

[Anonymous No.7469623]

>>7469552
>People will continue doing fan missions while it gathers dust because it looks like crap.
You seem to think it's a competition between NewDark and TDM for missions.

[Anonymous No.7469635]

>>7469421
Squeenix probably wouldn't care, but remaking TDS in T1 or T2 doesn't interest anyone honestly. If it did it would already have been completed.

[Anonymous No.7469639]

>>7469615
yeah I mean I ghost missions too, but I recently found a steam guide to ghosting rules and its fuckign insane
unless I'm straight up seen I consider it a ghost
>ironmanning
I see the appeal but it'st never seemed fun to me, I cant feel like a real Thief if I'm seen or fuck something up, its more rewarding to reload and eventually perfect a run

[Anonymous No.7469640]

>>7469508
Gloomwood runs on Unity.

[Anonymous No.7469652]

If Dishonored was not fucking gay and had an editor, it could be the basis for a new Thief.

[Anonymous No.7469660]

>>7469607
Your logic just doesn't follow, the engine isn't at fault for low quality assets or small maps, that's the content creators that do that, the engine is perfectly fine, it's open source and it isn't like a nu engine where most of the functionality is achieved through an abstracted scripting system causing even more unnecessary slowdown. as far as modern engines go you have Unreal, Crytek and Unity, or make your own, The Dark Mod is perfectly fine where it is on Idtech 4, it's evolved from there anyway, and has loads of new functionality.
>who the fuck would defend that crap so ferociously
Someone who knows you're wrong.

>>7469619
I wasn't aware of that, that's really good, I've used Trenchbroom for Quake mapping, that works like a dream, I hope it's more akin to that, or just a flat port of Dromed functionality into Trenchbroom, makes brush based map editing so ridiculously easy.

>>7469640
Heh, thought it was Unreal 4, smae difference I guess.

[Anonymous No.7469667]

>>7469660
It's similar to Trenchbroom and Radiant. Should make peoples' lives easier, though DromEd really isn't as bad as people think.

[Anonymous No.7469714]

>>7469660
Its fucking idtech4 anon. Its not perfectly fine.

Yes go unreal or some other shit. Might as well pay for something that does not look like idtech 4.

[Anonymous No.7469721]

>>7469714
Are you retarded?

[Anonymous No.7469739]

>>7469721
As retarded as you thinking the dark mod will ever amount to anything.

[Anonymous No.7469772]

>>7469714
>Its fucking idtech4 anon. Its not perfectly fine.
What's wrong with it? I think it's great, it's open source, it comes with brush based level design tools which are easy to understand and use for new users, and it's managed to build and keep a community, biggest problems are that the engine itself is old, but people have been overhauling Idtech 4 for years, it's received multiple large under the hood overhauls even before going open source, and there are people still creating their own engine forks with new functionality, engines are infinitely extendable, Prey 2 was running on Idtech 4, an open world game.
>Yes go unreal or some other shit. Might as well pay for something that does not look like idtech 4.
Games visuals are limited by the assets available, there are much higher detail assets that people have made, it's not a limitation of the engine entirely, you could overhaul the lighting and materials to be more modern, which is slowly happening with the engine so really what is your problem?

[Anonymous No.7469783]

>>7469772
>Games visuals are limited by the assets available, there are much higher detail assets that people have made, it's not a limitation of the engine entirely, you could overhaul the lighting and materials to be more modern, which is slowly happening with the engine so really what is your problem?
I don't have the technical vocabulary to describe it, but it looks like a game on the same engine as doom 3 - ie like ass. At the time it may have been a technical marvel but today basically everything from the mid 00s looks super uncanny valley. Even the source engine kinda has that look.

[Anonymous No.7469801]

>>7469783
Source engine doesn't have that look, Source games have a distinct look because Valve use Half Lambert for character rendering, it makes the characters look like they are lit from more angles, it's just generally more pleasing but isn't accurate at all, but it's why Source games all have this similar look.
Characters in TDM look a bit beyond Doom but I think some of the faces were reused, and possibly modified, but as far as the faces go they are low poly and rely on the normal maps and texture work to lie about the detail, at a certain point it looks kind of jarring, but some people maybe don't know why, Doom characters are definitely within this zone, the faces in TDM are too.
Idtech 4 doesn't hard limit characters to looking this way, remember that Brink and Prey 2 were built on Itech 4 and they look nothing like Doom 3.
It's definitely possible to squeeze great visuals out of The Dark Mod.

[Anonymous No.7469813]

>>7469801
>It's definitely possible to squeeze great visuals out of The Dark Mod.
so why don't they?

[Anonymous No.7469825]

>>7469813
You're asking why a team of enthusiasts and hobbyists aren't creating professional quality art.

[Anonymous No.7469867]

>>7469825
so if TDM is going to look like ass unless they get professional artists why are people shilling for it? Dark and newdark have been serviceable for the overwhelming majority of FMs for decades.

[Anonymous No.7469874]

>>7469867
That's not really what's happening here, the game will get better quality art when someone wants to make it for them, it's as simple as that.
Looks aren't everything, the more people that are interested in the project the more people that will find it and work on it, if it attracts skilled programmers and artists things will improve.
If a team of modders decide to create a commercial project on the engine, they could afford to spend more time on it or bring in more staff to work on it, and content could be shared between a commercial release based on TDM and TDM itself.

[Anonymous No.7469901]

>>7469874
>if it attracts skilled programmers and artists things will improve.

Then why not use a modern engine?

[Anonymous No.7469912]

>>7469901
You must be one of those people who spams games' steam forums with "add multiplayer to your game, it's simple!".

[Anonymous No.7469918]

>>7469901
What specific benefits does TDM have to gain from using a modern engine?

[Anonymous No.7469929]

>>7469901
>>7469918
To add to that how does using a modern engine fix any problems with TDM?

[Anonymous No.7469941]

>>7469874
We've come full circle. if someone wanted to make a new thief project they could do one of 3 things:
1) Tried and true, T1 or T2.
2) Take the gloomwood approach and use a modern engine like unity or UE. Would take new assets and mechanics obviously.
3) TDM. Would need new assets because the game currently looks like Doom 3, and would need an overhaul of the mechanics since it's currently janky as fuck.

[Anonymous No.7469965]

>>7469941
Overhauling TDM is more of a preference thing, you don't need to do that if you wanted to make a new project, the game still plays fine even if it isn't quite as good as Thief, if you were to create a new project in something like Unreal you don't have any guarantee that gameplay systems will work out better than TDM, the only advantage you have is that it's programmed in C# and Unreals visual scripting compared to TDM being done in C++ and it's scripting language.
Unless you want the Thief gameplay to be exact TDM is the best choice, and if you are a c++ programmer then it's your best answer hands down.

[Anonymous No.7469970]

>>7469912
>>7469918
>>7469929
it's probably less that he gives any shit what TDM does and more that he wants to see a hypothetical thief-like-game developer use a modern engine instead of TDM

[Anonymous No.7469982]

>>7469970
I wonder if they understand what modern engine even means.

[Anonymous No.7470030]

>>7469874
Big thing that turned me off from contributing to the dark mod is the fact the movement is terrible and I never really got much feedback for any of the models I made. Kinda felt like there was a circle you had to be in to get your contributions through.

[Anonymous No.7470032]

>>7469965
thing is i have this wacky suspicion that the kinds of people that would use TDM are the same kinds of people that like the super janky mechanics and ugly graphics (hence why all content for TDM is super janky)

[Anonymous No.7470041]

>>7470030
That sucks.

>>7470032
There's definitely some truth to that, there's actually very few good levels for The Dark Mod, even the Painters Wife is lacking, they don't really seem to get the level design aspect, I think most of the levels are designed with the clutter in place, when they should be designed to look like Thief 1/2 levels and then have them cluttered, there's too many small levels, both in terms of level size and room size, anyone who has played the original Thief can easily notice that many of the levels use symmetrical layouts or large corridors, few TDM mods do that, except the Volta ones, which I suspect are made by a professional level designer.

[Anonymous No.7470047]

>>7470041
I never made it past 10 minutes into painters wife due to previously mentioned TDM mechanics, but there were some big names on the author list from T1/2 FMs that I adored, what turned you off about it? Maybe I should check if there's a youtube LP of it.

[Anonymous No.7470073]

>>7470047
It's trying to do Life of the Party but the path to the mansion has a lot of content and branches a lot, you can also walk around the ground level, which Life of the party avoided, it's also not as open as life of the party which featured a lot of open scenes, something that you just don't see in TDM. With Life of the Party it plays out in 2 parts and each part is good on it's own, in The Painters Wife once you reach the mansion things get much worse, it's tiny, it suffers from the same compact feel that most other TDM missions suffer from, and there are a lot of painted on doors, on top of that it asks you to go back to exploring the city afterwards. I think they could have done a better job by actually reducing content in the city and making the mansion a lot bigger with a more traditional Thief style layout.
I'me fine with the gameplay not being quite as good as Thief and the graphics not being very pleasant, I play a lot of old games that look bad, but the level design is where The Dark Mod creators are constantly failing, it's strange that a community that loves Thief ends up following Thief 3's level design more closely than Thief 1 and 2, I'm going to shill Volta until the end of time because those maps are legitimately Thief like, lots of open space, less grey cobblestone and more red brick or other textures, and interiors that have nice colour schemes, if the rest of The Dark Mod looked like that it would probably have a much larger userbase.

[Anonymous No.7470114]

>Death's Cold Embrace
>2nd mission where you rob a mansion
Anyone here played this? I'm stuck and I can't find any key or anything to open the rooms that I need to get into on the 2nd and 3rd floor. I've searched every fucking where.

[Anonymous No.7470129]

>>7470114
is that the snowy campaign with the lovers? I don't remember, but check the TTLG forum thread for it though, there are always answers there.

[Anonymous No.7470261]

>>7470129
Both missions have been snowy so far but this 2nd one is bullshit. How was I even supposed to know I had to bring 3 stools to the fucking library?

[Anonymous No.7471001]

Why the fuck is there reddit nostalgia for TDS

[Anonymous No.7471113]

>>7471001
Why would you care?

[Anonymous No.7471424]

>>7470041
Symmetrical layouts are usually pretty shit, m8. It's better to be free flow and diversify the layout.

[Anonymous No.7471439]

>>7471424
I like the symmetricality in cathedrals, in RtTC and Saint Edgar's. The mission layouts aren't entirely symmetrical. The church itself is symmetrical because it was built for shape, to venerate a deity. But the buildings connected to it are not symmetrical, and were built to purpose. The cloister houses all the other activities of the haunted monastery. And the St. Edgar's exterior includes the offices and factory functions.
I think the best kind of symmetry is justified by sensible building practices. Sometimes it makes sense for a building to have some sort of symmetry because of how it's constructed. The internal details can always vary.

[Anonymous No.7471483]

>>7432161
You are right its not that bad, what frustrates me is that its just unintuitive, its like you are pedalling a bike transmission in a higher speed than necessary.

Makes you think you are wasting time.

[Anonymous No.7471724]

>>7471483
Trenchbroom zoomers deserve the rope.

[Anonymous No.7471876]

>>7471724
Why?