/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.7419639]

This game is WAY better than Bowser's Frankestein Story wtf, maybe not from a technical standpoint but everything else

[Anonymous No.7419669]

>>7419639
And none of the Mario & Luigi games g
hold a candle to Tomato Adventure's story. They should have kept making original IP instead of playing an agonizing game of dodgeball with Nintendo and their autistic old fossil mandate people. Apparently Fawful made Miyamoto seethe so fucking hard he mandated that they kill him off permanently in the 3rd game and he didn't like Antasma in Dream Team, he wanted Bowser to be the main villain again and they almost took Antasma out because of it.

[Anonymous No.7419672]

It's the best Mario RPG, imo.

[Anonymous No.7419674]

>>7419669
Rent free

[Anonymous No.7419701]

>>7419639
Why Frankenstein?

[Anonymous No.7419738]

>>7419701
Bowser's Inside Story tried to be several things at the same time, it got overstuffed with gimmicks that made the game look more like an experiment than an improved sequel.
>You play as Bowser! Forget about platforming, it's all about punching now
>Oh and the Mario Bros as well, but they are 2D, except for when halfway through they aren't
>BTW you have to play lots of shitty minigames with the stylus to progress the story
>Did we mention the stylus?You use Bowser special attacks with the stylus
>But remember, Bowser will grow into a giant for no reason and you'll flip the DS sideways and fight a non-rpg battle just because
I don't get how critics thought innovative = good, even Partners in Time felt more in-line with the original game instead of just throwing everything they could think at the screen.

[Anonymous No.7420979]

>>7419669
Bowser was the main villain of Dream Team though.

[Anonymous No.7421015]

>>7420979
that's what that anon was saying, they were forced to do that

[Anonymous No.7421041]

>>7419738
PiT had a lot of great gameplay ideas like using the extra buttons on the system for the babies, if they hadn't fucked up the Bros. Attack system and thus didn't overinflate HP values to match it would have been a fantastic game. Even the versions with the HP slashed down just aren't as good as a result of the botched Bros. Item mechanic. It's more linear than the original but still a great game.

Then they went all out on gimmicks and eventually ditched the elements that made the series so good in the first place. Oh well.

[Anonymous No.7422975]

>>7421041
The bros item was kinda lame but is it really that much different from using MP?

[Anonymous No.7423712]

>>7422975
Them being turned into consumables made the devs have them be obscenely powerful to make it worth using them, but then also realized how quick they razed through the bossfights if you stockpiled them and thus made the HP values absurd. The other regional versions changed the boss HP around to try to mitigate how stupid this was but it's still damned high so you're forced to use the items no matter what, which don't have anywhere near as fun of commands to input as the Bros. Attacks did. Oh boy, I get to sit there for a full minute taking the most advantage of the Copy Flower as I can instead of snappily inputting a much more satisfying and short input from SSS.

[Anonymous No.7423836]

>>7421041
>>7423712
PiT was better than BIS, but the last time I played it I got annoyed how often I was playing the younger team to the point where they were consistently a few levels ahead of the older ones.
The boss HP was incredibly frustrating, though.
SSS was the best in the series by far.

[Anonymous No.7425858]

>>7419639
I was 14 when this came out and it was the last game i played on my gba before i traded it for some weed. It was the best of times... It was the worst of times.

[Anonymous No.7425872]

>>7419669
I really can see miyamoto doing something like that but still.... source??

[Anonymous No.7426872]

>>7423836
>PiT was better than BIS
PiT was a soulless theme park ride, at least BIS let you explore a bit.

[Anonymous No.7427509]

>>7426872
>Soulless meme
There's nothing wrong with PiT's level design, at least there aren't shitty mini games

[Anonymous No.7427906]

>>7427509
>>Soulless meme
It's only a meme to you because you don't understand what the word means.

>There's nothing wrong with PiT's level design
There's no sense of mystery, for lack of a better word. Getting new skills and realising you can use them in previous places to discover something new was one of the best things in SSS. PiT has none of that and instead you get new skills solely to get through the next areas and there's no reason to use them anywhere else. BIS at least tried to capture what made the first game so good.

>at least there aren't shitty mini games
I admit the touchscreen stuff in BIS got really obnoxious at times (that pollen minigame especially) but outside that there was nothing wrong with them.
I'd say PiT is actually too monotonous because it doesn't have a single minigame.

[Anonymous No.7427998]

>>7427906
BiS replaced the smooth and creative platforming from PiT with punching stuff, Bowser is not nearly as flexible and much heavier to control than the Mario bros.
And yet halfway through the game you're forced to play as them in the 3D world to backtrack every area you couldn't before because Bowser's collecting skills sucks ass, making the pacing of the game suffer.

[Anonymous No.7428104]

>>7419639
It's the best game of the whole series, which is funny being the first one. Best soundtrack too.

[Anonymous No.7428114]

>>7428104
The 3DS remake solidifies this as the best game in the series

[Anonymous No.7428254]

>>7427998
>smooth and creative platforming from PiT
>throw babies in a hole
>babies hit block after going through a corridor
>adults hit another block that appears outside
>babies return to the adults and they hit a third block together/go through a door
>rinse and repeat
Meanwhile BIS has actual platforming for the bros. with, you know, platforms and jumping.

>Bowser is not nearly as flexible and much heavier to control than the Mario bros.
They wanted to have a third playable character with a completely different feel and they succeeded. The babies didn't have a single thing that the bros. couldn't just do themselves before.

>And yet halfway through the game you're forced to play as them in the 3D world to backtrack
Really the only bad part about the backtracking was collecting the attack pieces in the forest, which admittedly slows the game down.

[Anonymous No.7428283]

>>7428254
>Meanwhile BIS has actual platforming for the bros. with, you know, platforms and jumping.
Yeah, like halfway through the game
>They wanted to have a third playable character with a completely different feel and they succeeded. The babies didn't have a single thing that the bros. couldn't just do themselves before.
Might as well not call it a Mario and Luigi game cause it doesn't play or feel like one unlike the rest

[Anonymous No.7428359]

>>7423712
>Oh boy, I get to sit there for a full minute taking the most advantage of the Copy Flower as I can instead of snappily inputting a much more satisfying and short input from SSS.
Tbh that's a problem with all the games following SSS, BiS did no favors by keeping shitty Green Shell and Fire Flower from PiT as the staple of the series.
Up to this day SSS still has the absolute best bros attacks, it's even more glaring in the remake.

[Anonymous No.7430285]

>>7428283
>Yeah, like halfway through the game
Good job completely ignoring most of the game.

>Might as well not call it a Mario and Luigi game cause it doesn't play or feel like one unlike the rest
Sorry, but PiT is the odd one out.

[Anonymous No.7430396]

>>7427906
You don't know what the word meme means.

[Anonymous No.7430778]

>>7419639
Never heard of it , looks like zoomer trash.

[Anonymous No.7430787]

>>7430396
>NO U
Simply epic.

[Anonymous No.7431157]

>>7430285
>Good job completely ignoring most of the game.
"Most of the game" is when you control Bowser, which again, has shitty platforming skills
>Sorry, but PiT is the odd one out.
PiT literally plays exactly like a Mario and Luigi game, the biggest criticism is that it didn't innovate.
Then again reading your other replies I can tell you're pretending to be retarded.

[Anonymous No.7431531]

>>7431157
>"Most of the game" is when you control Bowser, which again, has shitty platforming skills
I don't think we played the same game. The Bowser parts (except maybe Peach's castle) were the shortest in the game and you spend most of it playing as the bros. inside Bowser.

>PiT literally plays exactly like a Mario and Luigi game
PiT was shat on since the release for being so different from the first game. BIS was the return to form.

> I can tell you're pretending to be retarded
I guess that's one way to admit you lost.

[Anonymous No.7431934]

>>7431531
>and you spend most of it playing as the bros. inside Bowser.
Yeah I too loved exploring 2D levels of Bowser's anus that look identical to each other over PiT's 3D ones
>PiT was shat on since the release for being so different from the first game. BIS was the return to form.
PiT was shat on for being linear and ditching the hub world, the rest is the same minus buying attacks.
BiS's only "return" to SSS was the hub world and MP.

[Anonymous No.7432021]

>>7419674
Obsessed

[Anonymous No.7433505]

>>7419738
>>BTW you have to play lots of shitty minigames with the stylus to progress the story
to be fair a lot of DS games fell into this.

[Anonymous No.7435431]

>>7433505
Which is why PiT was based

[Anonymous No.7436287]

Is BiS worth playing? I've loved SSS, it's one of the rare RPGs which I've actually beaten twice. As for PiT, I remember disliking it and dropping it (can't remember at which point).

[Anonymous No.7437645]

>>7419738
I fucking love the Mario & Luigi games so much but sometimes they just drop the ball so fucking hard so many times. I actually stoppled playing Dream Team because Starlow WOULD NOT SHUT THE FUCK UP. You think Navi's bad? Starlow is Navi if she decided to be a complete asshole.

[Anonymous No.7438020]

>>7436287
SSS is by far the best in the series, other games do not compare.

[Anonymous No.7439929]

>>7437645
Dream Team has excruciatingly bad pacing, it's unreal.

[Anonymous No.7440595]

Are the 3DS games worth playing? I've loved Superstar Saga since I was a kid, and I've played through it probably three or four times. Partners in Time was decent, but Bowser's Inside Story felt like a slog (playing as M&L in his insides was ridiculously boring, and I agree with most of the criticism of it in this thread). I know almost nothing about Dream Team besides Popple getting a cameo which is pretty cool, and I don't know much about Paper Jam either but I'm not really a big fan of making Paper Mario a separate character from a separate universe.

[Anonymous No.7440618]

>>7440595
Dream Team is an endless tutorial and Paper Jam has almost none of the appeal of the series left in it.

What a fall from grace.

[Anonymous No.7441280]

Am I the only one that hated the level design in the handheld mario rpgs? The combat was amazing but the maps were ass and felt poorly laid out and felt waaaay to long for how boring they were.

[Anonymous No.7441310]

>>7441280
I really liked Superstar Saga's level design aside from Joke's End, but the later games had some ridiculously boring segments.

[Anonymous No.7441403]

>can fight all the outside world enemies as the Bros.
>they don't have increased health or defense to compensate for the Bros. high level, so they die in one hit

>Bowser instakills small enemies
>small enemies have more health and attack power than the large enemies when being fought against as the Bros

[Anonymous No.7441609]

>>7436287
It's really fun, but it's total junk food sitcom plot with too few locations and too many minigames. Really fun writing and bowser is a VERY FUN RPG CHARACTER TO PLAY but the setting of the first one as well as all the new characters you make really make it feel like a journey in a way bowsers inside story does not.

[Anonymous No.7441620]

BiS sold me immediately when they revealed Fawful was going to be the main villain, but the rest of the game didnt live up to the first or even the 2nd. felt like a lot of wasted potential

[Anonymous No.7441918]

>>7419669
I know Miyamoto is a stubborn old fool but the way you people keep writing increasingly deranged fanfics where he's a mad, senile tyrant on the throne is just pathetic.

[Anonymous No.7441943]

Superstar Saga was my least favorite Mario RPG and I will never understand why everyone else takes all 8 inches of it rolling their shoulders and howling. The first two Paper Mario games are a much better experience mechanically. The idea of having a unique and entertaining non-Bowser villain who then decides to hijack Bowser's body and usual resources and spend the rest of the game larping as him halfway through is one of the strangest writing decisions I've seen in an RPG. The M&L series in general is very demanding on the player. PiT was a far bigger slog, though, for sure. I was fighting some bosses for literal hours.

[Anonymous No.7441957]

>>7436287
The minigames are annoying and you'll quickly grow to resent being forced to play as the brothers instead of Bowser whenever they pop up but it absolutely is worst playing and people with taste consider it the best M&L game.

[Anonymous No.7441961]

>>7436287
The minigames are annoying and you'll quickly grow to resent being forced to play as the brothers instead of Bowser whenever they pop up but it absolutely is worth playing and people with taste consider it the best M&L game.

[Anonymous No.7442137]

>>7419639
I played this on the GBA when it came out, it was a really well made and enjoyable game for the time.

I remember playing the sequel on ds with the two baby brothers and the GBA one was better in my opinion

[Anonymous No.7442156]

>>7419738
>But remember, Bowser will grow into a giant for no reason
This is a normal part of Mario games.

[Anonymous No.7442514]

>>7436287
Despite all the hate it's getting in this thread, BiS is a very well-received game overall. It's worth giving a shot. I personally thought it was great when I played it.

[Anonymous No.7442615]

>>7440595
The Superstar remake is the best game in the series.
>>7442156
Because this game came out with it, Giant Bosses wasn't a thing before BiS.

[Anonymous No.7443236]

>>7442615
I forgot to mention that I did actually play that remake, and I didn't like it. Not being able to switch leaders between Mario and Luigi meant cycling through every single in-field ability, or having to use the touch screen, which is really irritating. A lot of battle commands felt off compared to the original, and lacked the feeling of impact that most of them had. The general aesthetic of the game took a toll for the worse, too. I don't mind the redrawn sprites and stuff, but the amount of enemies that were homogenized into regular Mario enemies was annoying.

[Anonymous No.7443249]

>>7442615
>Giant Bosses wasn't a thing before BiS.
Yoshi's Island, Mario Sunshine, Luigi's Mansion, Melee, and some of the Mario Party games all had giant Bowser.

[Anonymous No.7443350]

>>7443249
I mean in the Mario and Luigi franchise anon.
That shit isn't even RPG, it's just a shitty gimmick BiS felt the need to thrown in that sadly stuck, although Giant Luigi is kinda cool.

[Anonymous No.7443420]

>>7419738
>>You play as Bowser! Forget about platforming, it's all about punching now
The majority of the game has you controlling the brothers.
>Oh and the Mario Bros as well, but they are 2D, except for when halfway through they aren't
Stop complaining about no platforming and then complaining about the game having 2D and 3D platforming.
>BTW you have to play lots of shitty minigames with the stylus to progress the story
No one will defend this but that's a design flaw with the system it's on.
>Did we mention the stylus?You use Bowser special attacks with the stylus
Yes, Nintendo's ideal system would be a Bop-It with a screen.
>But remember, Bowser will grow into a giant for no reason and you'll flip the DS sideways and fight a non-rpg battle just because
Not only does the game give you a reason for his growth, but they make a minigame out of it, like the ones you complained about for two points above.
I don't get how people like you aren't given a good, hard slap in the face as treatment. Just one, but one that will leave a mark, just to orient you in reality.

[Anonymous No.7443431]

>>7443420
Fuck off shitty apologist

[Anonymous No.7443435]

>>7443431
I'm not defending bullshit like the stylus. I'm pointing out where you contradict yourself and are objectively incorrect.

[Anonymous No.7443454]

>>7442615
>The Superstar remake is the best game in the series.
This is the most jarring example of Soul vs. Soulless I've ever seen. The concept became such a ubiquitous buzzword over on the bad board precisely because it was so prominently exemplified in the SS remake.

[Anonymous No.7443464]

>>7443435
>The majority of the game has you controlling the brothers.
In 2D
>Stop complaining about no platforming and then complaining about the game having 2D and 3D platforming.
You don't control the bros' 3D abilities for half the game and then suddenly you're thrown in a 3D hub world with them, it made the pacing non-existent
>Not only does the game give you a reason for his growth, but they make a minigame out of it, like the ones you complained about for two points above.
In-universe explanation ≠ game reason
That shitty minigame shouldn't have existed, it's not RPG and was only created for gimmicks
>>7443454
Do I need to jerk off to SNES games daily to think the left looks better?

[Anonymous No.7443479]

>>7443464
>In 2D
And...? Are you are of the first Super Mario Bros. game?
>You don't control the bros' 3D abilities for half the game and then suddenly you're thrown in a 3D hub world with them, it made the pacing non-existent
That's not what pacing is. An example of a pacing problem would be the excessive backtracking after this point.
>In-universe explanation ≠ game reason
The game reason is suddenly growing gigantic has always been a key aspect of Bowser's character and it was another thing they could make you drag the stylus out for.
>That shitty minigame shouldn't have existed, it's not RPG and was only created for gimmicks
No disagreement there.

[Anonymous No.7443482]

>>7443479
*Are you aware of

[Anonymous No.7443493]

>>7443464
>Do I need to jerk off to SNES games daily to think the left looks better?
1. This is the board for that
2. Left designs are original and full of personality. Right designs are subdued 3D models and geneeric enemies are stock Mario enemy models that lose their uniqueness, like the ordinary Snifit in the winter coat and the fucking Mechakoopa replacing the robotic Chomp dog.

[Anonymous No.7443510]

>>7443454
>>7443493
You just know Miyamoto sperging out was the reason they changed them to generic stock shit.
>"NOOOOO MONTY MOLE IS NOT YELLOW! DON'T CALL ANYONE!" *peppersprays devs*

[Anonymous No.7443523]

>>7443510
He created a committee for the express purpose of enforcing his standards that will still be there when he retires and will outlive him.

[Anonymous No.7443663]

>>7443493
>This is the board for that
Thank god PS2 was made retro then cause you boomers are delusional.
>tfw the superior resident evil remake is retro
"O, my low-graphics soul."

[Anonymous No.7443670]

>>7443663
The soul isn't in the dated nature of the graphics. The old designs are more vibrant and unique. More animated. The 3D designs are stiff and on-model by design.

[Anonymous No.7445523]

>>7443454
I do prefer the original game, but most of the new sprites look fine. The ones I have issues with are Cackletta's soul, Bink and Psycho Kamek being removed, Popple's ugly redesign, and Birdo/Hammer Bro/Mechakoopa/Monty Mole/Bullet Bill being made modern. I actually like that Dry Bones was kept the same but given his normal Mushroom Kingdom design for the one that actually serves Bowser. I don't really care about the fact that Geno is missing.

also Beanerang Bro is so fucking funny

[Anonymous No.7445531]

>>7443523
So what you're telling me is there will never be a good Paper Mario game again

[Anonymous No.7445540]

>>7445531
Where have you been? This was explicitly confirmed by Tanabe himself.

[Anonymous No.7447108]

>>7445523
The remake just plays better and should be played for that alone, effing 60fps

[Anonymous No.7447870]

>>7447108
It literally doesn't play better though. The combat felt way more impactful and didn't really need improvement, and cycling through abilities in the field is tedious. Framerate also doesn't really matter for a game like this anyway, especially when it's on the GBA

[Anonymous No.7448303]

>>7447870
Delusional
The HD bros attacks look legendary, the old ones look dumb as hell

[Anonymous No.7448676]

>>7445523
Where was Bowser's Dry Bones, again?

[Anonymous No.7449480]

>>7419639
SSS doesn't have vore or feeding fetishes so it's automatically worse.

[Anonymous No.7449707]

>>7419639
I always liked how bros attacks were contextualized in the overworld in SS. I like all tge M&L games but I always found it a shame how PiT abandoned a lot of cool concepts from SS yet it became the blueprint for later games. maybe a spiritual sequel can pick up the slack now that alphadream is kill

[Anonymous No.7449761]

>>7449480
>SSS doesn't have vore
What is the final boss?

[Anonymous No.7451250]

>>7449480
better*

[Anonymous No.7451328]

>>7419639
It's the best M&L game overall. Mostly in the combat system. It's simple, but fun. The Bros. Moves have just enough depth to be interesting, whereas in every future game, they took it way too far and made "Bros" attacks into fucking cutscene bullshit that take 20+ seconds to execute; having to do that shit over and over every single battle is a pain in the dick.

[Anonymous No.7452118]

>>7419738
The fucking touch screen has made DS games age even worse than Wii. So many games that would have or could have been great if not for their controls being fucked so Nintendo could sell their stupid gimmicks.

I always preferred the PSP because of that.