/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.7416285]

Why were they so mismanaged?

[Anonymous No.7416315]

>>7416285
They were managed fine, the only big fuck-ups were releasing the 32X too close to the Saturd and overcomplicating the Saturd's hardware which still ended up being inferior to PS1's.

[Anonymous No.7416316]

cocaine

[Anonymous No.7416356]

>>7416285
As it turns out, 2 civilizations from 2 completely different backgrounds, morals and ideals is like trying to mix oil and water. Who would have guessed?

[Anonymous No.7416380]

They tried to the "cool teacher" in their work culture and the kind of games they brought out. This worked out really well in the late 80s to mid 90s when flashy new types of games were coming out bringing new levels of game experience and home systems could now keep up with them. Nintendo's culture was a lot more conservative than Sega's, so things like Toejam and Earl or Ecco wouldn't be brought out by Nintendo. Sega were also perfectly placed to take advantage of their position of dominance in the arcade sector during this time, because then they could modify the games and systems for their home games and systems and profit twice.

Companies/individuals that hit the top of their respective fields are dime a dozen, and often it's just a case of being in the right place at the right time. But what truly separates the world class legends from the also-rans is what they do when they get into this leading position. Sega had many years to get things right but after the genesis they failed every time to deliver the experience audiences wanted.

The trouble with the "cool teacher" culture is that while kids stay in a good mood, very little work actually gets done.

[Anonymous No.7416382]

They tried to the "cool teacher" in their work culture and the kind of games they brought out. This worked out really well in the late 80s to mid 90s when flashy new types of games were coming out bringing new levels of game experience and home systems could now keep up with them. Nintendo's culture was a lot more conservative than Sega's, so things like Toejam and Earl or Ecco wouldn't be brought out by Nintendo. Sega were also perfectly placed to take advantage of their position of dominance in the arcade sector during this time, because then they could modify the games and systems for their home games and systems and profit twice.

Companies/individuals that hit the top of their respective fields are dime a dozen, and often it's just a case of being in the right place at the right time. But what truly separates the world class legends from the also-rans is what they do when they get into this leading position. Sega had many years to get things right but after the genesis they failed every time to deliver the experience audiences wanted.

The trouble with the "cool teacher" culture is that while kids stay in a good mood, very little work actually gets done and a sloppiness came into their games, PR and management practices that would never be tolerated in Nintendo. They had years to prepare for the demise for arcades and how their business would run through it and they ultimately failed.

[Anonymous No.7416385]

>>7416316
gotta go fast

[Anonymous No.7416390]

>>7416356
But Sega of America were the ones that tried telling Sega of Japan how much of a fuck up the 32x would be. Makes me wonder what other dumb ideas of SoA shut down before it could do damage.

[Anonymous No.7416393]

>>7416285
Sega of America was full of double agents and spies. To name one example, "299 moment" guy was working at Sega one year before.

[Anonymous No.7416418]

>>7416393
>To name one example, "299 moment" guy was working at Sega one year before.
thats interesting. Got anymore SoA conspiracies?

[Anonymous No.7416519]

I'm convinced the Japanese/English language barrier is responsible for at least 90% of the shit decisions Sega has ever made. Look at the Sonic games for example, you can't address flaws and criticisms of those games if you can't even understand the critics. Or when Shoichiro Irimajiri left Sega in anger after seeing the wrong Sonic Xtreme tech demo, without understanding a better one existed.

[Anonymous No.7416545]

>>7416418
Peter Moore ended out with Xbox then endgame with EA Sports

[Anonymous No.7416582]

>>7416390
Sega of America were the ones suggesting Sega of Japan that it would be better to make an add-on fuck up (32X) rather a new model fuck up (an improved Mega Drive, their original idea).

[Anonymous No.7416594]

>>7416390
>Makes me wonder what other dumb ideas of SoA shut down

The Sega VR?

[Anonymous No.7416615]

>>7416285
Jews vs japs, each in their respective homeland. A jew would rather sink the ship and kill everyone and themselves just to spite and blamr someone else, japs having too much reverence for a branch that did succeed at one point greater than they ever did to steer away from the iceberg anyone could have seen coming, and when lifeboats could be sent the cocky branch said no thanks. They then proceeded to get motorboats but preferred to use paddles instead of the motor, ensuring they were crippled forever with no chance of growth. Almost seems like sabotage, and then you look how the head hooknose sunk other video game projects and it smells even louder of it. Who would have thunk, a grabbler infiltrating like that. Never seen that before!

[Anonymous No.7416618]

>>7416615
What in the name of fuck is wrong with you

[Anonymous No.7416621]

>>7416315
>which still ended up being inferior to PS1's.
Saturn was more powerful than PSX in both 2d and 3d.

[Anonymous No.7416648]

[Anonymous No.7416653]

[Sega of Japan's] Hayao Nakayama and Hideki Sato flew in to Redwood City for a meeting with Joe Miller, Steve Payne, Tom Kalinske and Shinobu Toyoda [of Sega of America] to discuss Sega of Japan’s hardware development plans – in particular, its vision for its next-generation machine, the Saturn.
"Our issue was that it was far too expensive," says [Sega of America's] Toyoda. "The Genesis was selling at $149, but the Sega Saturn looked likely to be a $399 machine. That sort of price had never been seen before. So Joe Miller said to Nakayama, in front of everyone, that if we created an add-on to Genesis, and used a part of Genesis’ guts, we could deliver the performance of the Saturn at half the price. So Joe started to draw the diagram of how we’d do that, and that was the 32X. It was in that room with just five or six of us that it all started."

Nakayama concurs. "The main worry was the high production cost of the Saturn," he recalls. "We had a lot of discussions with Sega of America about this, and Sega of America insisted that US consumers could not afford the new console, and because of the team’s great success with the Genesis, Sega of Japan finally relented."

[Anonymous No.7416668]

>>7416621
How come pretty much every cross-platform 3D game ran better on Playstation than Saturn then

[Anonymous No.7416669]

"Now, I can sit here and tell you today that no matter how great Saturn is, or PlayStation is, or Ultra 64 is, we will outsell them by an enormous amount with 32X -- simply because of the price." - Kalinske, Tom

[Anonymous No.7416781]

>>7416669
>we will outsell them
>includes the Saturn

LOL, this phrase illustrates really well how big the divide between Sega of America and Sega of Japan was.

[Anonymous No.7416813]

>>7416668
Most likely less effort was put in to Saturn ports.

[Anonymous No.7416912]

>>7416668
Unless you cheated with the VDP2's infinite tiling planes, everything had to be loaded onto the VDP1, which was a weaker chip than the Playstation's at rendering 3D polygons.

Then there's also the fact that most of the time, devs wouldn't bother with the Saturn's second CPU and just program for one SH2, which ran at ~8mhz slower than the Playstation's CPU.

It was just a crappier console in general, both in terms of its specs & the frankenstein design.

[Anonymous No.7416923]

>>7416813
Nah. Plus there were 2D games that ran worse on Saturn. Plus instead of transparency it had weird dithered meshes.
For a 200 dollar price increase over the most 3D capable system of the generation and a 100 dollar increase over its biggest competitor there is NO reason it should be this way, the Saturn should have been BTFOing them the way the Neo Geo BTFO Genesis and SNES at a price like that.

It didn't, instead any 3D games it did have were severely limited and dialed back to an embarrassing degree. The hardware fucking sucked.

[Anonymous No.7416978]

>>7416923
>Plus there were 2D games that ran worse on Saturn.
Lazy ports. There are no amazing looking 2D games on PSX like there are on Saturn.

[Anonymous No.7417017]

>>7416669
The only problem with 32X is it had no games because Shitturn crippled it and SoJ refused to support it. Both the 32X and Jaguar could together conquer the low end market for 3D games if they had more games.

[Anonymous No.7417025]

>>7416285
It's impossible to say.
The Saturn being targeted at arcade gamers was probably the biggest fucking fuckup I could think of beyond greenlighting the 32x.
I know Sega was hugely successful in the arcade space, but my issue with "well the Saturn just misfired its demographic" is that the Genesis had loads of great single player or two player home console exclusives while ALSO being an arcade port machine. Hell, an overwhelming majority of the good single player games were Japanese!

So I don't quite know where Sega went so fucking wrong that they couldn't pull the same "arcade ports+quality home experiences" trick for the Saturn library. Also jesus christ the price of the damn thing, how in hell is it 200 dollars more expensive than the N64 which runs fucking circles around it hardware wise?

[Anonymous No.7417027]

>>7416813
>less effort
More like the same amount of effort, but Saturn's fucked up architecture and lack of good dev tools made it much more difficult to develop games for.

[Anonymous No.7417030]

>>7416648
Wrong answer.

The gooks dug their own hole.

[Anonymous No.7418581]

>>7416285
Too much infighting between the Japanese and American division.

[Anonymous No.7418603]

Japanese hubris.

[Anonymous No.7418613]

>>7416315
saturn was actually more powerful but eeking out that power was hard,even till this day emulating the system is tricky but leaps and bounds have been made of late.

[Anonymous No.7418639]

>>7416653
>so the 32X was indeed a SoA idea, after all

How many more lies did Tom Kalinske tell us? Was he truly forced by SoJ to do that Saturn surprise launch?

[Anonymous No.7418653]

>>7418639
I mean, it was Japan's fault for making the Saturn cost so much. Why did they think they needed a super powerful system to beat the Playstation when they won 4th gen with weaker, older hardware than the Super Nintendo?

[Anonymous No.7418735]

>>7418653
Genesis weaker than SNES? Come on.

[Anonymous No.7418884]

>>7418735
Genesis was released in the 80s lol.

[Anonymous No.7418887]

>>7418884
and it was still better than the snes

[Anonymous No.7419041]

>>7417025
Saturn also had a good variety of games, but SoA just decided not to release any of them lol

[Anonymous No.7419054]

>>7416285
They figured out too late what Nintendo figured out a decade before them....the library sells the console.

[Anonymous No.7419057]

>>7418653
>when they won 4th gen
Do Segacucks really believe this?

[Anonymous No.7419063]

>>7418653
>when they won 4th gen

[Anonymous No.7419071]

Sega is the WCW of video games.

[Anonymous No.7419094]

>>7419063
It's still impressive how much of the market they managed to corner against the grips of the Nintendo monopoly mafia. People forget how Nintendo goons threatened retailers and distributors for selling multiplatform games other than their own.

[Anonymous No.7419096]

>>7418887
This, I mean it's the most basic point of the genesis vs snes war, how could you not know that? Oh yeah, because you weren't even born until 6th gen came out.

[Anonymous No.7419101]

>>7416285
Didn't Dreamcast have it's own disc technology but the reason why Dreamcast games could be burned and played into ordinary cd's was because nips wanted karaoke cd's or some shit on it so that created the backdoor hackers needed?

[Anonymous No.7419107]

>>7419096
(just a little clarification is when he says "better" I'm taking it as technologically as that is obviously the context there, it's highly arguable which console is better overall).

[Anonymous No.7419118]

>>7419063
Also, contrary to what happened in the NES vs Master System era it was the Genesis that had many more clones than SNES, so even if they didn't count in therms of tells they did for the popularity of the system.

[Anonymous No.7419121]

>>7419101
No, dreamcast used cd technology so it could make the discs an industry standard way and alsh the cost. Same with gamecube that used minidvds. Coming up with something like laserdiscs would have been far too costly.

[Anonymous No.7419123]

>>7419094
>It's still impressive how much of the market they managed to corner

Remember alot of SEGA's market came from NES players jumping ship unwilling to wait for the SNES launch. Little did they know they were abandoning what is considered to be one of the greatest vidya libraries of all time.

[Anonymous No.7419131]

>>7419118
>it was the Genesis that had many more clones than SNES

This was mostly 3rd world though. SNES had a better lockout, tougher to clone at the time.

[Anonymous No.7419156]

>>7419123
Also I remember people being pissed at Nintendo for not adding backward compatibility like the Genesis. It was a huge issue at the time.

[Anonymous No.7420026]

>>7419057
Megadrive was outselling the Snezz yearly until 1994.

[Anonymous No.7420376]

>>7416315
Software development was a real PITA on a Saturn is what I read somewhere

[Anonymous No.7420590]

>>7420026
Was interested in this so I looked it up. Don't know how exact the numbers are, but evidently in North America Genesis outsold SNES in '93 and '94. Even in '95 it remained very competitive with Nintendo despite slipping a bit with the release of the Saturn. In total, Genny sold more in NA.

Mega Drive seems to have done comparatively better in Europe, though had lower overall numbers, though evidently Germany went all in with SNES.

[Anonymous No.7420626]

>>7420590
>In total, Genny sold more in NA.

Revised numbers by the NPD group in 2013 found that in contrast to their original data that conclusion was based upon, the SNES actually won the US.

https://equities.wedbush.com/clientsite/Research/ActionAlertFilePreview.asp?UUID=E4AFF57F-DDBC-437F-8520-AF38BEDD3E43

[Anonymous No.7420686]

>>7420626
Interesting, thanks. Also, neat how 360 and Wii almost put up PS2 numbers. Granted it was a longer generation.

[Anonymous No.7420721]

>>7417030

[Anonymous No.7421027]

>>7416285
They're a Japanese company anon.

[Anonymous No.7421315]

>>7416653
Well they were right. Nobody wanted to buy an expensive Saturn. Its graphics were out of date within a year. N64 kicked its butt.

[Anonymous No.7421447]

>>7419101
there were zero karaoke cds for dreamcast. I dont understand why every eceleb keeps repeating it. https://segaretro.org/Mil-CD