/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.7396123]

Let's discuss "hardcore" videogames. Games that have a bad reputation for how unforgiving or difficult they were.

What's the most hardcore retro game you've played?

[Anonymous No.7396128]

Probably NetHack or ADOM (whichever is more hardcore, I didn't get far enough in either to find out)

[Anonymous No.7396190]

>>7396123
Being ambushed by ninjas in Wiz almost always ends in a wipe or almost total party annihilation before you are even allowed to respond. It's pure RNG bullshit with no counter I don't consider this hardcore at all. I feel bad for anyone that had to witness his A-team getting slaughtered and needing to send the backup squad to collect them

[Anonymous No.7396316]

>>7396128
ascending was a pain in the ass but i regret nothing

[Anonymous No.7396337]

>>7396128
ADOM is the more complex of the two.

[Anonymous No.7396774]

>>7396123

[Anonymous No.7396942]

>>7396128
Nethack took me several months playing with a guide/wiki when I was a NEET

[Anonymous No.7396946]

>>7396123
Probably pokeman purple.

[Anonymous No.7397052]

>>7396774
>the floor in Wizardry 4 with teleporters that are basically impossible to map out since they face you in a random direction
>the floor that has one safe path and everywhere else will get you killed
>that one boss whose main weakness is one of the weaker things you can summon
>your MC always has a shit AC because they're a wizard
>trying to get any of the endings

[Anonymous No.7398550]

Anyone finished pic related?

[Anonymous No.7398776]

>>7396123
>level drain
How does anyone deal with this bullshit

[Anonymous No.7398787]

>>7398776
Reset

[Anonymous No.7398794]

>>7396123
Somic Adventure

[Anonymous No.7398817]

>>7396774
Intersesting Wizardry 4 tid bit. Some of the hero parties you fight are actually the parties of real people who beat the other 3 Wizardry games and mailed in to Sir-Tech. So if you ever go up against a party that seems designed to kick ass beyond all reasonable standards it is probably the party of some autist that but his party from the ground up for crushing wizards.

[Anonymous No.7398871]

>>7396123
Wizardry 4 is only hard like a slot machine is hard

[Anonymous No.7398886]

Pathologic 2 made me feel like a failure on a level other games couldn't.

[Anonymous No.7398906]

>>7396123
Legend of Kage
fuck that game

[Anonymous No.7398915]

>>7396123
Dark Souls.
Dark Souls is like the Dark Souls of Dark Souls.

[Anonymous No.7398917]

>>7398871
So basically impossibile.

[Anonymous No.7398965]

>>7398917
Yeah but also only beatable due to luck rather than skill

[Anonymous No.7399164]

>>7398817
Man imagine telling people it's your party in the game and no one believes you.

[Anonymous No.7399193]

>>7396123
*resets game*
Yes, quite hardcore

[Anonymous No.7399404]

>>7396123
Hardcore is not difficulty though, hardcore is a design philosophy where your decisions have permanent consequences and you can't just grind your way past a challenge. I Wanna Be The Guy is pretty bastard hard but it's not hardcore since there are zero consequences, Jagged Alliance 2 is hardcore as there is a lot of depth and management and you can't just grind your stats to 100 and rofflestomp the game despite it not being that hard a game to begin with.

If there are no permanent significant consequences, up to and including delete-save-game-over and unwinnable scenarios because you fucked up, it cannot be reasonably called hardcore. Wizardry 4 isn't hardcore, it's just fucking bullshit hard.

[Anonymous No.7399456]

>>7399404
I'm a little babu when it comes to consequences in games - I tend to abuse save states to save time, but permadeath games do have a weird appeal.
My friend told me about a game of XCOM where he got all the way to the final battle and just didn't have enough resources to ever beat it. (I have never played XCOM, I'm just repeating what I remember)

Any games with permadeath worth lookin up to fry my autistic nerves?

[Anonymous No.7399474]

>>7399456
You just named it: XCOM, also Fire Emblem, Jagged Alliance 2 on ironman mode (look for ironman modes in general), Darkest Dungeon, and there are challenge runs like Nuzlocke for the Pokemon games.

If you prefer management games, Dwarf Fortress and Rimworld, and just about every roguelike created offers permadeath.

[Anonymous No.7399475]

>>7398776
Save scum

[Anonymous No.7399918]

>>7396123

Why would ninjas be hanging out with ogres and demons

[Anonymous No.7400240]

>>7396774
So uh
has anyone even beaten it? like, how

[Pr?nc?ss Sevenleaf No.7400381]

>>7399918
It's affinity, evil recognizes evil, and you have these three groups who normally wouldn't be caught dead together but it's like... Hey, I specialize in separating heads from bodies, you specialize in separating bodies from souls, we're more alike than different.

[Anonymous No.7401142]

>>7396190
seethe and cope

[Anonymous No.7401396]

>>7396123
I've beaten a ton of really difficult older games. Loved doing it. Only two I never made much progress in:
The Immortal (Genesis)
Swordmaster (The true original Dark Souls)

[Anonymous No.7401406]

>>7399456
>Any games with permadeath worth lookin up to fry my autistic nerves?

Deathlord.

https://www.mobygames.com/game/deathlord

[Anonymous No.7401462]

>>7396774
>Scorpia of Computer Gaming World, who beta tested Wizardry IV, favorably reviewed it in 1987, stating that the game had been worth the long wait before release.
>stated that it was "eminently fair and is, perhaps, one of the most finely-balanced games I've ever played. Every puzzle, every encounter, every clue ... has been worked out with careful exactitude".
The fuck are these people

[Anonymous No.7403372]

Any more hardcore games you guys can think about?

[Anonymous No.7403401]

I would put Solomon's key in this category as there are very few people who beat that game without either using emulators, watching solutions on YouTube, or at the very least the code on NES that unlocks the continue option. Ive seen people abuse save states and still give up in frustration.

[Anonymous No.7403545]

>>7403372
Cataclysm DDA? Dwarf Fortress?

[Anonymous No.7403561]

nethack, never once ascended but I never really took the time to learn all the mechanics.
for fun KH2FM on critical level 1 is pretty hard and last but not least cave story on hardcore

[Anonymous No.7403572]

>>7401462
Turns out back then gaming journalists were really fucking hardcore

[Anonymous No.7404171]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNQn9-GT3oY

this game any good? it is called wizardry llylgamyn saga and it is for the psx

[Anonymous No.7404184]

>>7404171
It's a collection of Wizardry 1-3. You can pick between English and Japanese for different types of text, switch between textured polygons and wireframe, different monster graphics etc.
There's also a similar collection with 4 and 5 called Story of Llylgamyn.

[Anonymous No.7404243]

>>7396774
ah yes, W4.

>can't save your game without resetting the entire dungeon
>Trebor shows up out of nowhere and surprise butt seckses you--game over
>spellcasters who Mahilto your summoned monsters into ash
>thieves randomly show up and steal your stuff
>the Katino (Sleep) spell which is the only area effect spell you have until Level 3 and it doesn't work
>the manual which doesn't tell you anything useful about what "invoking" does
>the oracle whom you pay 2500 gold to to "learn" that the egress will set you free (thanks, I really needed to know the exit is the only way out)
>and then Level 8 which is full of random land mines everywhere and you have no way to know what squares they're on

[Anonymous No.7404441]

>>7396774
Why do japs love Wizardry so much? I mean, yea, it's a classic, but it has like a cult following.

[Anonymous No.7404491]

[Anonymous No.7404494]

>>7404491
Ahhh, the C64, based

[Anonymous No.7404539]

>>7404494
>10 minute load screen
>1 hit death
Can you comprehend

[Anonymous No.7404554]

>>7396128
I actually got the MacGuffin once in NetHack though I didn't make it out, and I've at least made it like 30 or so levels down on several runs.
ADOM? Never once had a character last more than like 20 minutes. No fucking clue how to play and not die.

[Anonymous No.7404557]

>>7404539
No since I just emulate it.

[Anonymous No.7404563]

>>7404557

[Anonymous No.7404712]

>>7396123
Which re-release of wizardry is OPS pic from?

[Anonymous No.7404978]

>>7404712
idk about you but those like snes graphics

[Anonymous No.7405140]

>>7404712
PC98?

[Anonymous No.7405162]

>>7401462
>Scorpia of Computer Gaming World, who beta tested Wizardry IV,
Time for another rousing game of "spot the trans woman"

[Anonymous No.7405227]

I’m planning on playing wizardry 5 on the SNES soon. What am I in for? Ive never played a wizardry game before

[Anonymous No.7405328]

What's the hardest scotformer?

[Anonymous No.7405620]

>>7405227
Ability to save anywhere outside of combat, auto-mapping, and thieves not being useless make it considerably easier than the previous games. Hint: the NPC on the first floor sells an item that cast Dumapic(the map/coordinate spell) infinitely. Pricey, but invaluable.

[Anonymous No.7405652]

>>7405227
True men play the Apple II original of course.

[Anonymous No.7405656]

>>7398871
Have you ever beaten a slot machine?

[Anonymous No.7405690]

>>7396774
>Wizardry
When I see this word on /vr/ I instantly stop reading.

[Anonymous No.7406030]

>>7405227
Avoid the North American SNES version. It's pointlessly censored. The Japanese SFC version is playable in English.

[Anonymous No.7407442]

Super Mario: the Lost Levels
Why did the Japanese like games to be irredeemably hard, but they didn't want to share them with Americans?

[Anonymous No.7408449]

>>7407442
It's not that hard, don't be a baby

[Anonymous No.7408513]

From >>7406729

[Anonymous No.7408553]

>>7400381
That’s stupid as fuck. You’re an idiot.

[Anonymous No.7408558]

>>7408513
Did we play the same Moo2? I felt it was arguably the easiest game of the franchise, possibly easiest space 4X overall, to the point where fan mods were needed to make it a challenge. For online play, players agreed to ban certain builds outright and you can put the same restrictions on single player I guess?

Any 4X game is hard if you give yourself enough handicaps and max out the AI opponent cheats. You can still win but you just use extremely boring and safe strategies.

[Anonymous No.7410154]

>>7408513
Do we have one of these but for each console? If not, there should be one!

[Anonymous No.7410175]

>>7399918
works for Mortal Kombat, I guess

[Anonymous No.7410209]

>>7398871
That's not Wizardry 4.

[Anonymous No.7410234]

>>7398776
level up

[Anonymous No.7410241]

>>7396123
Alien Front Online

[Anonymous No.7410370]

>>7408513
>Serious Sam
>difficult
Its not even on Blood or Shadow Warrior level

[Anonymous No.7410379]

>>7408513
Hexen and Hexen 2 are hardest good FPS.

[Anonymous No.7410509]

>>7404563
You expect me to spend more of my money, for another thing to take up more of my physical space, and spend more time than I need to running the games on actual hardware, when I can just do a couple mouse clicks and have the entire archive of the C64 on my PC for free?

[Anonymous No.7410510]

>>7408513
Time Zone isn't really an RPG, it's a graphic adventure game.

[Anonymous No.7411519]

>>7408513
FZero Gx final stage pisses me the fuck off everytime I attempt it

[Anonymous No.7411534]

>>7396774
There has definitely been remakes for Wizardry 4, there is one for the PC-Engine CD

[Pr?nc?ss Sevenleaf No.7411910]

>>7408553
Okay, then ogres and ninjas and demons like to hang out with each other for no reason in particular and it's not worth thinking about. You must be real fun at parties.

[Anonymous No.7413073]

>>7411910
filtered

[Anonymous No.7413092]

>>7410379
Hexen isn't bad, but the switch hunt is gay

[Anonymous No.7413207]

>>7413073
You kind of proved his point.

[Anonymous No.7413231]

>>7413207
who? the filtered namefag? I didn't read whatever he posted

[Anonymous No.7413253]

>>7411910

I’m the person who asked this question >>7399918

This was not a reply by me >>7408553

I thought your answer was sufficient.

[Anonymous No.7413284]

>>7396123
> Doom and Doom II on UV as a well as a bunch of other classic wads
> Ghosts and Goblins - actually beat it (I think properly, twice)
> Sonic 2

[Anonymous No.7413294]

>>7410209
Shit you're right. I meant that for >>7396774.

[Pr?nc?ss Sevenleaf No.7413410]

>>7413253
That's good :) I'm glad

[Anonymous No.7413984]

>>7396774
Is wizardry 1 harder than might and magic 1? Never played wizardry

[Anonymous No.7414005]

Nethack has to be the only game that has killed me on the first move, I spawned next to a fountain and took a drink before looking if it was thirsty, I choked on my tongue and died.

[Anonymous No.7414020]

>>7413984
Yes. M&M1 will easily let you escape from dungeons and return home with Surface/Fly.
If your party gets wiped out then you can restart at the last inn you visited. In Wizardry your progress is saved each step and the spell to escape (LOKTOFEIT) is far higher level and costs you all your gold.
Magic needs to be used more carefully since it uses a slot system instead of spell points. You also can't rest on the spot to regain spells or HP, you need to return to town for that.
There are no cheap buffs to buy in the temple or things like Level+ potions.
Reviving dead characters in Wizardry is far more likely to worsen the condition, you don't get Divine Intervention to bring your party back to form at a whim.
Enemies in Wizardry end up tougher with more instant kill effects and other mean shit.
The dungeons are a lot more complex with traps and mind boggling designs. Imagine the Astral Plane or Soul Maze being standard.

[Anonymous No.7414103]

>>7413231
>Looking at the name field
Newfag.

[Anonymous No.7414597]

>>7396123
Probably nowhere near anything in this thread, but I beat Castlevania 2 with no guide. It sucked but it only took a little over 15 hours of play, while I read lots of people say it's unbeatable without a guide. It's not really hardcore at all, but that's its reputation.

[Anonymous No.7414614]

>>7396123
Wizardry 1? You mean shit design?

[Anonymous No.7414628]

>>7414614
Name a better designed game from around 1981.

[Anonymous No.7414680]

>>7396774
what's the point of playing this bullshit
you have to be ultra autistic to enjoy this insanity

[Anonymous No.7415106]

>>7414614
filtered

[Anonymous No.7415138]

>>7404441
Nostalgia I guess?
There are better dungeon crawlers, better Wizardry games too, but they only care about the first four of the series.

[Anonymous No.7415152]

>>7414597
how did you figure out that part?, you know, THAT part.

[Anonymous No.7415156]

>>7415138
Wizardry 5 is the basis for most Japanese Wizardries.

[Anonymous No.7415165]

>>7396774
I know that ridiculously challenging games have their niche but sometimes you have to wonder if the developers for those were sadists.

[Anonymous No.7415216]

I went in think that the turbo tunnels were a casual filter and that the rest of the game was fine, little did I know the whole game is a casual filter. Volkmire's Inferno is genuinely unfair.

[Anonymous No.7415309]

>>7396316
Killing rodney is not ascending

[Anonymous No.7415349]

>>7414103
>looking at namefag posts
newfag.

[Anonymous No.7415396]

>>7414597
How the fuck do you figure out the water part?

[Anonymous No.7415458]

>>7414628

[Anonymous No.7415516]

>>7408513
What's the first shmup?