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File: 12 KB, 250x188, Very Early Sword on A (Pre-Child Link Era) Desert Map.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7362232 No.7362232 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

An age without childhood Edition.

Let's discuss Zelda 64, how it was essentially scrapped from what it was going to be, and whose skeleton became Ocarina of Time! As well all leaks and Overdump data and findings!

Previous thread: >>7338551
/v/ thread chain:
https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/541056554
https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/541081032
https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/541089989
https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/541103263
https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/541119757
https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/541129994
https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/541186839
https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/541217529
https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/541241983
https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/541309649
https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/541429687
https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/541487368
https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/541591909
https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/541828846
TCRF page: https://tcrf.net/Proto:The_Legend_of_Zelda:_Ocarina_of_Time/Late_1997_Overdump
DrDisco's ROM with the beta maps (Updated version): https://drive.google.com/file/d/1H42U0ZC7anJRg1BAjX0Pk62cU3dSaSAU/
DrDisco's z64me channel with a bunch of footage of beta maps: youtube.com/c/z64me

Let's discuss further Current findings and development of the overdump!
>Of personal interest
A very early Sacred Forest Meadow map was found and the actor IDs were more or less compared to the final release. while not all objects are there, like the trees and pink fog to disguise the shitty draw distance, it does call for the unused Moblin behavor and size that was discarded for the final game's Moblins
>https://twitter.com/Zen64_/status/1352433376393834498

>Area Name graphics call the Desert Colossus "Evil Goddess Din", while map screen graphics call it "Evil Goddess Statue".

>> No.7362237
File: 196 KB, 1600x873, old map comparison.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7362237

>> No.7362241

>page 7
Are you new to /vr/ or something

>> No.7362242
File: 2.48 MB, 1720x1000, oot hyrule world map manual.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7362242

>>7362237
While I appreciate the comparison, I wish the Anon who made it had used the full res map from the gigaleak.

>> No.7362245
File: 465 KB, 800x500, Proto_OoT_Hyrule_0_ov.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7362245

>>7362237
that map is obviously based on picrel

>> No.7362246

>>7362241
After the introduction of sixth gen, threads began dying faster. Last time it was at page 7 when the previous thread was made and died within half an hour aprox.

>> No.7362247

>>7362245
>that shitty-ass farm in the open field
It'll never not be funny.

>> No.7362249

>>7362247
Don't make fun of them. They're hard workers feeding the entirety of Hyrule.

>> No.7362252 [DELETED] 

>>7362245
Notice how the castle town interior is the style of the final game's, rather than the fully 3D town from the super early screens.

>> No.7362257

>>7362237
>>7362245
Notice that they painted the castle town interior in the style of the final game's, with a fountain in the center surrounded by buildings - rather than the fully 3D town shown off in early screens.

>> No.7362258

>>7362252
>>7362257
There must be an earlier Hyrule Field (whose collission we partly have thanks to the gigaleak) from when Hyrule Castle Town was surrounded by walls completely and not just around a mountain, when Hyrule Castle was at the center of the world.
The early 3D town must've been scrapped around the time the 8 piece of heart mechanic got scrapped. Not enough time to make so many sidequests and make a map so big full of detail.

>> No.7362298

>>7362245
I wonder if we'll get a restoration or mockup with the trees, fog and Gerudos at night.

>> No.7362319

>>7362242
Is there any lore about what's under the fog/clouds?

>> No.7362345

>>7362319
None. They probably didn't want to make people think much if there's anything beyond the playable game world.

>> No.7362446

>>7362245
There's something about this earlier Hyrule Field that's so enticing.

>> No.7362665
File: 1.40 MB, 1440x3176, betashit.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7362665

>>7362242
Just noticed something about that map

>> No.7362717
File: 22 KB, 480x270, 1096834-tetra2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7362717

While Zelda Breath of the Wild is the first mainline zelda game to feature characters fully speaking instead of grunts, Four Swords Adventures Tetra's Trackers (jap. only) had it and Super Smash Bros. Melee has one voiced quote (also jap. only alongside Mewtwo) from Sheik saying moratta - got it also ignoring the cdi games
Four Swords Adventures: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Gnmt8L-k80
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PifHuf_tvHY
I would have liked withnessing Ganondorf talking in this
Melee: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6rd7QL7pgc

>> No.7362734
File: 667 KB, 750x742, smh.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7362734

>>7362717
>Forgetting the Satellaview games

>> No.7362754
File: 181 KB, 1100x1130, 'C'MON!'.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7362754

>>7362717
Am I the only one who saw the irony that the only intelligible voiced clip in a core main game up until the Switch era was LINK?

>> No.7362810

>>7362247
>>7362249
I bet it was more like a random guy's trading sequence thing, like what you'd see in Link's Awakening at Sale's House of Banana's (Crocodile on the beach) or the rooster guy on Tal Tal.

>> No.7362826

>>7362734
Didn't knew about these, i do know about that Midna's quotes are actually in english but made reversed and gibberish
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YLakSs0mlU
>>7362754
Nintendo might still have the va's recording for the characters where they could had scrapped voice dialogues, but we will might never hear them

>> No.7363078

>>7362754
Navi came before though

>> No.7363093

>>7362754
I always heard OOT link saying TAKE THAT when using Din's Fire, but that was probably just me hearing things.

>> No.7363120
File: 296 KB, 581x718, ProxiMate.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7363120

>>7363078
Damn how could I forget.
Still though, Link surrogate, sort of.

>> No.7363175
File: 286 KB, 800x500, Proto_OoT_Kakariko_ov.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7363175

Woo! New thread!

This beta kakariko will never not be funny, how small and primitive it is. It's pretty empty in the state we have it, and could have been scrapped pretty early.

On one side of the map is a door, and in this video ( https://youtu.be/5rSKhWrLgmU ) it's shown to lead to the laboratory on Lake Hylia, but it's more likely that this is map order fuckery and this door actually used to lead to the graveyard, similar to the final map.
So did the orders get messed up? Did the laboratory overwrite the beta graveyard? If so, maybe that points to the idea that something else could have been in the house on the lake.

>> No.7363182

>>7362717
And it was just a few years ago that people were screeching at Nintendo for ruining BOTW with VA, saying that having no voice acting was "part of the art"

>> No.7363185
File: 260 KB, 800x400, Proto_OoT_Graveyard_ov.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7363185

>>7363175
Actually, scratch that. The graveyard would have connected to the road, which both maps have in common. Then where did that side gate, which now leads to the observatory, go to originally?

>> No.7363187

>>7363175
There's an old trailer showing Link entering the house by the lake and it actually having an interior, it's possible there was way more to the old Kakariko that we're not seeing.

>> No.7363212

>>7362665
im sure that render of the town was supposed to be included in this build but was overwritten. its also using this specific build of hyrule castle.

>> No.7363219

>>7363185
Beta Kakariko has exits out to what should be Hyrule Field, what should be the Graveyard, and what should be Death Mountain Trail.
>it's shown to lead to the laboratory on Lake Hylia, but it's more likely that this is map order fuckery and this door actually used to lead to the graveyard, similar to the final map.
>So did the orders get messed up? Did the laboratory overwrite the beta graveyard?
Yes

>> No.7363264

>>7363175
Small and primitive and yet that's the Kakariko you can see from Death Mountain in the overdump's map.
So, did they probably stuck to that map for a while?

>> No.7363282

>>7363175
What's funny is that you can see the old primitive kakariko from the almost finished death mountain in the same build and the mountain you see from kakariko also matches with that place.

>> No.7363285

>>7363264
Maybe so. I never noticed that. I'll look out for it. Maybe they figured that it's far away and does the job, so there's no need in changing it.
You'll notice that in this beta, (almost?) every house is that same one copypasta'd. They do a similar thing in the final, but will tend to at least try to make it look different with its surroundings, signs on the walls, etc.

Nothing else to point out, I just think the identical houses are funny

>> No.7363316

>>7363285
The identical houses must be a result of taking the same approach they did with 2D games like ALttP and LA, just in 3D.

>> No.7363330

>>7363282
indeed. its surreal to see an a+c location referenced in a final sword on a one. especially when the town is clearly just a concept to go through the effort of porting it into another map what could be thought of a final location.

>> No.7363341

>>7363175
The entrances are fucked, they're not worth speculating over

>> No.7363348

>>7363341
Yeah. I noticed that in a couple of those videos, the exits will take him to the observatory, so it must just be because of the map he's replacing or whatever.

>> No.7363354

>>7363348
Dr. Disco's patch was just a quick and dirty one to get the maps in to the Debug ROM and load. Zel is working on the advanced patch that restores actors and exits.

>> No.7363358

>>7363182
I was screeching at them cause I knew the English VAs would be embarrassing to listen to and I was right.

>> No.7363502

>>7362717
I wonder what the context for the Sheik line would've been, maybe when she has her needles fully charged or something

>> No.7363521

>>7363502
貰った means "Gotcha!", generally an animes thing when someone lands a punch.
It could honestly be anywhere. She gets a grab, she gets a hit, she gets a kill.

>> No.7363746
File: 1.22 MB, 978x966, 1611112696114.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7363746

>>7362665
I just realized the temple of Time in that render has a red ceiling and a tower.
Hmm, so it might still reflect an even older version than what we currently have.

>> No.7363761
File: 550 KB, 800x596, spire.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7363761

>>7363746
it has that in the final game too, that's what this thing is outside of the Castle Town walls

>> No.7363764

>>7363187
The door in *all* the copy pasted houses are part of the level geometry.
You never see Link actually *entering* that house, so how can you be sure that interior is related?

>> No.7363771

>>7362242
>full res
>its a shitty upscale

>> No.7363775

>>7363761
Yo, I never noticed it, holy shit.
Maybe it's supposed the Master Sword's chamber? That place I believe has a much higher ceiling than the general Temple of Time.

>>7363771
Don't shoot the messenger, it came straight from Nintendo's servers. I believe they gave Yusuke Nakano a 3D render of the entirety of Hyrule and he just drew over it on photoshop.

>> No.7363780

>>7363764
You see Link transition from it to outside the Lake in those old A+C trailers, however the transition is still very... Mario 64-like. Fade to black shit.

>> No.7363781

>>7363219
Don't expect the loading zones to work correctly in a thrown together hack of the MQ debug rom

>> No.7363791

>>7363780
post it

>> No.7363798

>>7363775
>Maybe it's supposed the Master Sword's chamber? That place I believe has a much higher ceiling than the general Temple of Time.
yes

>> No.7363803
File: 229 KB, 1012x249, OoT-Market.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7363803

>>7363775
it is, you can see part of it from the market but most people don't realize it exists because you only ever really see the front of the temple

on a side note, the 3DS remaster fucked up that detail with the tower, and instead made it a separate thing rather than part of the Temple of Time, so even Grezzo didn't realize what it was meant to be

>> No.7363808

>>7363803
>3DS remaster fucked that detail
What a surprise

>> No.7363816

>>7363791
I'll take the L on that. The A+C 1997 french trailer does show the interior of a house that look like the Kakariko Lady's house, but we never see Link exit it. I might've been misremembering.
Here's what little A+B footage we have to make up for that. Man, A+B camera seems wonky. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3iKOCme2yg

>>7363803
Interesting. Got a pícture of the 3DS version, by chance?

>>7363808
Once the source code gets completely uncompiled an autismo will make the ULTIMATE Ocarina of Time 3D, mark my words.

>> No.7363832

>>7363816
I remember reading that the C buttons manually controlled the camera, which is *why* it was A+B.

>> No.7363848
File: 602 KB, 641x517, 3ds temple spire.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7363848

>>7363816
Hyrule Castle is the only map that has both towers present and even then it's hard to see both from a normal gameplay perspective

from Hyrule Field, the "new" tower replaces the same spot as the old one but is more angular and is more brightly colored
in the 3DS market you can still see the old tower but it lacks the spire

>> No.7363858

>>7363832
Makes sense, OoT was build off Mario 64's engine after all. In the french trailer, when Link is surveying the Deku Tree area, it looks like Mario 64's surveying camera (C-up), seems there was no first person angle yet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWzI4UWYp1E

>>7363848
wack

>> No.7363864

>>7363816
That's not the trailer I was referring to, hang on.

>> No.7363865
File: 1.07 MB, 1850x852, both towers.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7363865

>>7363816
>>7363848
and using noclip.website here's a comparison between both games

>> No.7363880

>>7363865
Looks pretty much the same to me

>> No.7363890
File: 785 KB, 788x866, Image1.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7363890

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/u44683598-5735-4043-8b12-baefac1c3271/Market-Ocarina-of-Time-3D
https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/u01f0d9dc-e279-4fd6-aebb-6f0525a15188/Market-Adult-Ocarina-of-Time-3D
Went looking for screenshots, found the whole damn maps fully viewable instead.

>> No.7363906

>>7363890
Well damn. Truth to be told it doesnt look that off from the original version either.

>> No.7363961

>>7363864
I got it
https://youtu.be/C3M8m2upktQ?t=163
The few seconds we see of the interior kinda reminds me of an FF7 house with that overhead view.

>> No.7363972
File: 141 KB, 582x723, 1611112687781.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7363972

>>7363961
Paging >>7363791 anon

>> No.7363983

>>7363961
Notice how, when he walks up to the door it starts fading out, but the house interior cuts into view before it's even done fading out, and the footage it cuts to doesn't start with Link by the door.
The fade out is to a closing logo.

I'm surprised that people don't just notice these things.

>> No.7363987

>>7363983
I swear I see him going into the door opening animation seconds into the fade to black, but I am partially blind.

>> No.7364004

>>7363987
Oh, and he also has the same equipment layout before and after the fadeout, despite it changing between cuts throughout the footage.

>> No.7364005

>>7363987
He doesn't anon. Probably doors weren't even working at this point. Probably they were still struggling with the camera and combat at this point. They could simply reuse Mario's door opening animation/logic and left it for last?

>> No.7364049

>>7363961
This could be seen as Super Mario 64 styled, but at the same time not.
The fadeout is obviously not from the game itself but part of the video, so that can be ruled out immediately. Link doesn't have an opening animation and the game instead hard cuts to him inside the building. Mario 64 did feature hard cuts when moving between rooms, but he also had a door opening animation.
So it's either they didn't have a door animation ready and just had Link teleport to a room interior (which at this point would likely have been on the same map considering the lack of loading) or they just used the magic of television to film two separate scenes and splice them together.

>> No.7364065
File: 103 KB, 1000x760, 74e954b6b5eb0a6fd5cbf261ef20698d.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7364065

Zelda 64 decompilation at 60%.
Didn't we had the Ocarina of Time sourcecode during the gigaleak? Or only assets and the Mario 64 source code.

>> No.7364080

>>7364065
IIRC it wasn't quite the source code, but still more than what we had before

>> No.7364204

>>7364080
Oh, what was it, then? Can you recall? I can't find much other than the maps like fstdan

>> No.7364286
File: 145 KB, 998x413, Screenshot_20210201-210832_Chrome.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7364286

Has anyone mentioned this yet? It looks like there would have been some kind of exhaustion mechanic or story event, as well as a chance that you'd get robbed, or a scrapped part of the story where you'd get robbed. Maybe if you failed to get to a hotel (which are now confirmed to have existed at some point), you'd fall asleep where you are and get robbed. Sounds pretty advanced, but I see why they'd get rid of something like that.
Imagine you're balls deep into a dungeon and Link passes out and loses his money. Damn.

>> No.7364342
File: 208 KB, 477x356, Screenshot_2021-02-01_16-21-54.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7364342

Now I want to preserve all the old recreations of maps that people made, because you just know that people won't give a shit anymore now that we have a lot of the real maps.

>> No.7364359

>>7364342
These seem so quaint now

>> No.7364376
File: 70 KB, 1280x960, Zelda_64-210201-180243.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7364376

>>7364342
I have a shocking amount of restoration ROM hacks.

>> No.7364383

>>7364376
should post em somewhere

>> No.7364427

>>7364376
Post em

>> No.7364448
File: 166 KB, 1035x424, Screenshot_20210201-215200_Chrome.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7364448

Still reading the text dump. This implies that there was a bit more nonlinearity to the game, which would have been nice. One of the things I don't like about OoT is that besides a couple of Temples, everything has to be done in order

>> No.7364460

>>7364448
I think with the Cucco you can bypass the rocks in Zora River but it's finicky

>> No.7364474

>>7364448
This is still in the final game. You can just go into Dodongo's Cavern, grab the bombs, then just go do all the Zora stuff first.

>> No.7364475

>>7364460
The Cucco is on the other side of the rocks though...

>> No.7364494
File: 369 KB, 638x478, two stones.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7364494

>>7364448
>>7364474
can confirm

>> No.7364502

>>7364460
>>7364474
>>7364494
Huh. I stand corrected. Still, I don't know what the point in that would be. If you're already in the Cavern, you may as well finish it, right?

>> No.7364509

>>7364502
Oh yeah, they absolutely meant for you to finish up with the Gorons before moving on to the Zora, but there's always that cheeky player who will try to do things in ways you don't intend, so this is more of a "cover your ass" kind of situation.
But it could very well have been fully nonlinear in earlier builds.

>> No.7364510

>>7364502
In Majora's Mask I would go to the Great Bay Temple, grab the ice arrows at the start, the go do Stone Tower Temple because Great Bay was absolute hell and so much worse than the water temple in OoT.
Better to just include a line like that than put in some extra check to lock you out of doing things slightly out of order.

>> No.7364515

>>7364509
>but there's always that cheeky player who will try to do things in ways you don't intend, so this is more of a "cover your ass" kind of situation.
Or they could be a dumb kid, not realize you have to drop bombs into the Dodongo eyes, and off they go to Zora's Domain looking for new adventure.

>> No.7364516

>>7364502
This also works with the forest temple if you get the bow then exit, you can move on to fire/water temple.
The thought is: What if someone gets through most of X dungeon but has trouble completing it? Now there's an option to try the next dungeon instead of forcing yourself.
Like, 5% of people did it. But the option is there.

>> No.7364534

>>7364515
Or indeed that. It seems to be a good rule of thumb to think of odd out of order things like that and put catches in so the game doesn't break in unexpected ways.
Heck, in this very same game you see what happens when you DON'T put in a catch like that, since the game only checks for the Spirit and Shadow medallions before letting you into Ganon's Tower. I mean as far as I can tell there's no way to actually do it without making use of exploits, but...

>> No.7364542

>>7364534
>I mean as far as I can tell there's no way to actually do it without making use of exploits, but...
The Forest Medallion is required to time travel back to the past and get the Silver Gauntlets for the Spirit Temple. The game checks to see if you have the Fire and Water Medallions when you enter Kakariko to play the Bongo Bongo escaping cutscene where you learn the Nocturne of Shadow to warp to the Shadow Temple. You're right, without using exploits, realistically, having the Spirit and Shadow Medallions means that you have all the previous ones.

>> No.7364550
File: 3 KB, 787x25, Sato.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7364550

What the fuck did he do that angered Miyamoto enough to erase his existence?

>> No.7364562

>>7364510
>mfw I liked great bay

>> No.7364567

>>7364550
Probably his packaging proposition got declined for the final packaging the Japanese release had?

>> No.7364569

>>7364542
Yeah. Having the event check for six different variables at once could have caused a bit of stutter. That, or it was just easier and faster to only check for the last two, seeing as you couldn't logically collect them without having the others.

>> No.7364573

>>7364562
I didn't think it or the water temple were that bad. The forest temple, though? Fuck that boring shit

>> No.7364586
File: 59 KB, 1080x777, Miyamoto finding out people didn't want to program a child Link.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7364586

>>7364550
>"We're not putting a child Link in the game, it's way too much work and we have no time."
Masanori Sato's last words.

>> No.7364593

>>7364586
he probably wasn't even on the project when they put child link in

>> No.7364606

>>7364342
Funny how the brickwall here has more detail than the brick wall the actual leaked map ended up having.

>> No.7364621

>>7364448
most of the adult dungeons can be done out of order. navi just tricked everyone into thinking they had to do it one specific way

>> No.7364646

>>7364621
Spirit/Shadow can, as well as Fire/Water, but I don't think that's true for all of them.

>> No.7364652
File: 66 KB, 671x1195, OoT basic linearity map.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7364652

>>7364621
>>7364646

>> No.7364674

>>7364652
Well then. Fuck Navi for tricking my mushy child brain into thinking the game is linear

>> No.7364723
File: 140 KB, 720x480, ura-zelda-hack-windowedroom.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7364723

>>7364606
And that's one of the better recreations.

>> No.7364778

Isn’t bottom of the well also a trigger for shadow temple, in addition to fire+water medallions?

>> No.7364809

>>7364778
afaik the well is completely optional. Having the lense of truth helps a lot though

>> No.7364814

>>7364778
only for the lens of truth, but if you really want to you could just brute-force your way through without it

>> No.7364838

>>7364814
its really not that hard since the shadow temple is so linear. kind of a contrast from how the rest of the temples are designed which makes me wonder if it was designed with the intention that the player wouldn't necessarily have the lens

>> No.7364853

>>7364838
I think they just wanted to emphasize how deep underground the temple is

>> No.7364867

>>7364838
What >>7364853 said. But the Fire Temple is also pretty linear, all things considered. It also might be because the Shadow Temple is just about the only dungeon in the game which is legitimately a dungeon. It always reminded me more of a standard RPG dungeon than the others.

>> No.7364890

>>7364838
>>7364853
>>7364867
I know some did spirit before shadow, but I think like 99% of people followed the forest - fire - water - shadow - spirit path.

Shadow being linear makes for a real nice refresher after being a dumb kid who takes weeks to finish water temple, that was always why I assumed it was such a straight path. That and general theming, the focus in shadow temple isnt on solving puzzles its on navigating obstacles and not dying.

>> No.7364923

>>7364890
I think Shadow Temple instead of being confusing instead tried to play up being unnerving. I was 9 years old and the dungeon scared the living shit out of me, so that made up for the lack of confusing paths.
I also agree it was a nice refresher.

>> No.7364932
File: 1.07 MB, 771x2194, Fado_Artwork_(Ocarina_of_Time).png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7364932

Someone asked in another thread: did anything ever come up about the bitch in the related pic? It's been theorized for years that she was supposed to play a larger role since she has a name, unique design and some official art.

>>7364923
Same. The well and ST actually scared the shit out of me when I was younger. But I'm a pussy and so did Jabu Jabu and the Forest Temple

>> No.7364940
File: 8 KB, 815x288, Ed3mZNlWAAA8MzN.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7364940

>> No.7364946

>>7364932
lol I replied to your question in the previous thread: >>7364916
You know, if you scare her or show her cute masks she's like "I'll tell Mido!" or "Don't tell Mido", and she seems to tease Link in a similar way "Oh you think you're a real man now huh?" on top of the lookout area.

Her overall demeanor makes me think Mido was supposed to be the Shadow Sage since she's kind of the creepy child herself, while Saria was always the Forest/Wind sage.

"Everyone. Stalfos."

>> No.7364959

>>7364946
Lmao. I'm not the one who asked the question, but I am the OP of that thread and the guy who suggested that they ask it here.
That makes sense to me, at least. They probably figured that it'd be strange to have two Kokiri Sages and made Impa into a cool Ninja lady instead so that she'd fit into the role.

>> No.7364969

>>7364959
Too bad we don't have older builds, or the missing half of this overdump to compare and know what exactly they were thinking.

Who even knows how much story they had even planned before the introduction of child Link or if they had just begun writing plot when he became introduced. Although it seems they began the story around the time Navi was revealed, so before child Link.

I keep hoping one day either one of the hoarders or some madman graces us with an A+C build or and earlier Sword on A (pre-Child Link introduction) build.

>> No.7364986

>>7364969
How likely is it that someone's hoarding those? To my knowledge, it was only press who ever saw those builds, hence we only have blurry screenshots for most of them. Stranger things have happened, though.

>> No.7364997

>>7364986
>Stranger things have happened, though.
That's exactly the train of thought I've had.
Why did we got a Mario 64 disk version suddenly found? AFAIK that version wasn't even public knowledge.

Not only that, we got confirmation Zelda 64 had a cartridge version being made in tandem with the disk version as early as March 1997 because the team already knew the DD was a dead on arrival add on.

>> No.7365004

>>7364997
Maybe one day we'll get Ura. and I mean real Ura. Not "this dungeon romhack is Ura Zelda totally please trust us guys lol" Ura.

>> No.7365043

>>7364986
According to more recent interviews, all that most people ever got were VHS tapes and screenshots, unless you were pretty much involved with the project.

>> No.7365045

>>7365004
If Nintendo wants to call a dungeon romhack Ura then they can. They bloody well own it.

>> No.7365109

>>7365004
Majoras mask basically is ura. MM has pretty much every idea they were going to use for ura. They had a year to make it, do you think they were going to throw all their work away?

>> No.7365126

>>7365045
This argument was had in the last thread, too. And yeah, you're right, but that doesn't stop Master Quest from being a different product to what they /said/ Ura was going to be. I guess it is technically Uraif they say so, but it's not the Ura we were promised, and the earliest build dates on MQ suggest that it was made specifically for the GCN release, and isn't the same Ura that was in development back in the 90s.

The Ura Zelda we were promised was an expansion to OoT with extra features which were cut from the final release, like signposts and plants staying dead when you cut them, footprints in the sand as you walked staying in place, and other updates/differences, some of which may or may not appeared in the dungeon remixes that we got. The MQ has no differences besides the dungeons. That's not what Ura Zelda was supposed to be.

Sure, they can claim that MQ is Ura, and it'd technically be correct, but MQ isn't the same thing as the Ura that was in development.

>>7365109
AFAIK MM is what became of Zelda Gaiden, which is distinct from Ura. The story as we know it is that Gaiden became MM, whereas Ura disappeared without a word, then years later MQ was released and they claimed that /that/ was what Ura was supposed to be all along.

>> No.7365238

>>7365126
We know for a fact that ideas they were kicking around for Ura ended up in Majora's Mask thanks to the gigaleak.

>> No.7365275

>>7365004
>>7365126
According to Aonuma in an Iwata Asks, he was never really hot on the Ura Zelda idea.
There was never supposed to be new dungeons, just additional features to OoT. Aonuma felt it a waste because OoT was already great, don't mess with greatness.
He created new dungeons as a test and began pushing Miyamoto for a new game instead of an expansion. Miyamoto granted it on the stipulation he only has 1 year.

This kinda of lines up with the giga leak. The Ura Zelda dungeons found were ported to MM. Those two dungeons might have been Aonuma's presentation to Miyamoto for a whole new game.

A lot of people point to that one magazine where Miyamoto said Ura Zelda was "95% done". Keep in mind he said OoT was "more or less done" in the beginning of 1997. So I'm not inclined to believe him on due dates.

>> No.7365287

>>7365238
That's true, but there's a difference between one project becoming another and ideas from a project being used in another. It's possible that they /both/ because MM, though, but the official story has always been that Gaiden became MM whereas Ura became MQ

.>>7365275
That's interesting. It was only the mini dungeons or the challenge dungeons, whatever they're called, right? Or was it full MM dungeons which were intended for Ura?

>> No.7365292

>>7365287
One of them was one of the spider houses from MM

>> No.7365417

>>7365287
>>7365292
It was the Swamp Spider House with a map name implying it was some sort of Deku Tree replacement and a VERY early Ikana valley still with the scene name "redead", same as Majora's Mask. It's assumed it would've replaced the regular Bottom of the well in Ura. IIRC both maps had "DD_" in the filename.

>> No.7365420

>>7365043
Refer to the Disk version of Mario 64 and people getting their hands on very rare shit like that collectorfag with the only known build of Jet Force Gemini GBC he's letting bitrot to not share because "muh money value".

>> No.7365436

>>7365275
Honestly, to me it seems Ura got split on Gaiden/Majora's Mask and MQ.Both together would be the true Ura

>> No.7365458

>>7365436
Yeah, that's likely.
My point was that I'd like a build of Ura to turn up, though. Just so we'd know for sure. Information on Ura and Gaiden is pretty scarce now due to retarded fan theories and faggot youtube videos with no sources taking up all the search results

>> No.7365464

>>7365458
At some point Miyamoto claimed it was nearly complete, that it just needed debugging.
However as soon as Zelda Gaiden was unveiled, all mentions to Ura got dropped

>> No.7365475
File: 13 KB, 292x221, OoT-Black_Dagger_NOE.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7365475

I combined all footage from the A+C era of development I could find.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuDbeoM0cq4
Please tell me if there is any footage missing.

>> No.7365513

>>7365464
>However as soon as Zelda Gaiden was unveiled, all mentions to Ura got dropped
Not willingly, but they did continue to answer anyone who asked about it.

>> No.7365529

>>7365464
Miyamoto said a lot of bullshit while the game was in development. Like someone said earlier, he considered the newest leak to be "almost complete." Now that was either talk to please shareholders or it actually /was/ pretty close to completion, then for one reason or another they decided to revamp the whole thing.

>>7365475
Gold call. I don't know of anything that's missing, but I'll he bookmarking this. I love watching prerelease Zelda footage.

>> No.7365547
File: 314 KB, 692x1648, 1611377570181.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7365547

>>7365475
Impressive, seamless even, thanks anon!

>>7365529
>then for one reason or another they decided to revamp the whole thing.
If I recall correctly, the inclusion of child Link brought with itself new ideas that could be implemented, as well as rebalancing, didn't it? Something like that I recall in OoT3D's Iwata Asks. It was possible he wasn't lying, that this was considered the "almost complete" version but then people began adding ideas that were considered worthwhile and thus the delay from spring 1998 to fall 1998.

>> No.7365584

>>7364646
don't you need the hammer to beat the water temple? it's needed for one switch or something

>> No.7365589

>>7365584
There's a pillar you can only take off with the Hammer after you get the longshot but I don't recall if it led to a mandatory room or just rupees. Pretty sure Fire Temple also needs the bow for those Eye switches.

>> No.7365610

>>7365584
I believe the only mandatory hammer moments is in the Fire Temple and Ganon's Castle.
Spirit Temple has a rusty switch, but it just unlocks a shortcut back to the entrance.

>> No.7365620

>>7365589
There's nothing you need the hammer for in the Water Temple. You also only need the bow and arrow to get to the map the intended way in the Fire Temple, you can jump the gate from the other room and land in the chest area though. You also don't need the bow to clear the Water Temple. In the middle room where you shoot the eyeball and longshot across the open gate, you can go up a level, shoot your arrow down into the eye, then jump into the alcove with enough speed to roll past the gate before it closes.

>> No.7365626

>>7365589
Is there no other way to activate those eye switches than to use the bow? To my knowledge there isn't, and that would blow the graph at >>7364652 apart.
Does anyone have the source for that graph/flowchart, anyway?

>> No.7365630

>>7365620
>You also don't need the bow to clear the Water Temple. In the middle room where you shoot the eyeball and longshot across the open gate, you can go up a level, shoot your arrow down into the eye, then jump into the alcove with enough speed to roll past the gate before it closes.
I'm stupid, I meant you don't need the long shot to enter this alcove. I mixed two different things up.

>> No.7365879

>>7365630
I guess it'd be a fun challenge to try the dungeons out of order next time I replay OoT

>> No.7365956

>>7365879
If you could find a way to get past those rocks on the way to Zora's Domain and do Jabu Jabu straight after meeting Zelda, it'd be a nice way to have the boomerang for more than 0.0001% of the game

>> No.7365968

>>7365956
>If you could find a way to get past those rocks on the way to Zora's Domain and do Jabu Jabu straight after meeting Zelda, it'd be a nice way to have the boomerang for more than 0.0001% of the game
Leave Kokiri Forest with the sword and go straight to Kakariko. Navi dive into the well (it's easier than chicken diving like this video shows) and follow the tutorial to swim to the bombchus. You now have 20 bombchus at your disposable before the bomb bag.

>> No.7365971

>>7365956
Well, there's always the good ole Navi Dive trick.
I think the original version had a similar trick, right? To sink to the bottom of the pond in Lost Woods and get to Zora's Domain that way.

>> No.7365972

>>7365968
Forgot the video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hC7W7rIhU7E

>> No.7366008

>>7364516
You don't need the bow to 100% fire temple in the final game. The only place to use it is to access the map room, which alternatively can be accessed from the outside grate after you clear the wall of fire. You can do
Forest-Water-Fire, since water doesn't require the hammer
Fire-Forest-Water
I think you can also do Spirit right after Water since the trial of the sand only requires the longshot and the lens of truth (you can do the bottom of the well anytime after the forest temple), and the places to use the hammer in the spirit temple are optional

>> No.7366013

>>7365971
>>7365968
Never knew about that trick. I might try it myself now.
Not sure if having the boomerang early would even put you at an advantage, but I just never liked how you got it and it was unusable a few moments later.

>Adult Link can't use the boomerang

What sense does that make anyway? I guess it's because the hookshot has a similar function, but then why have the boomerang in the game at all, if not because it's iconic? I bet before they added Young Link they had Adult Link be able to use it, but then had to balance out the inventory when the time travel was added. Even then, they could have at least come up with a reason, even a half assed one.

>> No.7366024

>>7366013
>Adult Link can't use the boomerang
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAFY5IxOJRA

Technically he can if you have Din's Fire and enough patience to learn the timing for this. Child can also use hammer, and Adult can use Deku Sticks on Virtual Console (they crash on N64).

>> No.7366042

>>7364838
Navigating the haunted wasteland without the lense is a nightmare. I've had to do it backwards from the spirit temple a couple times in randomizers.

>> No.7366135

good ol oot
glad to see new content and discussion after a hundred years of
>is the triforce real

>> No.7366142

>>7366013
>Never knew about that trick. I might try it myself now.
The quicker route might be to use it on Lost Woods to just go to Zora's Domain directly and then get the silver scale. I wasn't sure if it was possible on N64, I only knew of it on 3DS but >>7366024 thankfully proved it's on N64 as well.

>>7366135
I know, right?
Remember HTLoZ?

>> No.7366151

>>7366135
This. OoT discussions have been stagant for 15+ years

And now we know, even more sure than we did before, that the Triforce is not real.

How long until this becomes a waifu discussion?

>> No.7366159

>>7366151
>And now we know, even more sure than we did before, that the Triforce is not real.
Don't be so sure. For some insane reason, in the beta Quest Status screen ("Collect Item" screen) we got in this overdump, the triforce Icon isn't molded into the fancy background and instead is it's own separate sprite like the medallions, the heart pieces and the music notes.
Maybe it would've been a "Game has been completed" marker?

>> No.7366170
File: 249 KB, 480x350, Unicorn_Fountain.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7366170

>>7366159
Maybe. Or the courage side would have lit up, but that would have looked weird.

At least, we know that in the retail version of the game, the Triforce isn't real, no matter how hard you try to get into the cavern beneath Zora's Domain.

>> No.7366180

>>7366170
I like how so many people use that beta recreation and pass it off as the original

>> No.7366214
File: 254 KB, 1079x789, Screenshot_20210202-053715_YouTube.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7366214

>>7366180
Eh. It illustrated my point just fine.

In seriousness, what was the big deal with the Unicorn Fountain? It was probably a Fairy Fountain thinking about it, and nothing to do with the Triforce, but what about it captured the imagination of every 12 year old LoZ autist? It's not the only mysterious beta area in those trailers by any stretch of the imagination, and nothing about the 0.00676 milliseconds of footage we got about it suggested that it was in some cave underneath the water or that it was the place that held the Triforce.
This stalfos test room intrigued me more, anyway. I remeber waiting in preparation for this room so I'd be ready for the stalfos jumpscare

>> No.7366225

>>7366214
In seriousness, what was the big deal with the Unicorn Fountain?
Probably an earlier Great Fairy mountain where the older, crystal-like Great Fairy would pop up from (I think that model is even called great fairy statue in the debug rom? idk?)

>Stalfos room
Man, to think those rooms people made wonder so much about were purely "Combat Test" judging by their file names (syotest and syotest2). I wonder why Nintendo showed them so much if they weren't really going to be actual environments.

>> No.7366240

>>7366225
The pillar room in >>7366214 does have a vague semblance with the temple of time's main room though.

>> No.7366252

>>7366225
Probably just to show off combat. They might not have had many cinematic looking battles to show off

>> No.7366265

>>7366240
I guess so...

>>7366252
Fair enough, maybe to even prove Zelda 64 was a real thing running on the N64, since the "triforce" A+B trailer had a lot of journos being the usual retards suspecting that it wasn't running on real hardware because ""it looked too good"" (absolutely kek)

This showing of the combat went well among journos, but to repost this from last thread:

>>“You might have noticed the soldiers stop for a moment just before making a move, such as just before swinging a sword. Their action didn’t look natural because of those brief breaks. We need to adjust this problem in the final version.” - Shigeru Miyamoto, Shoshinkai 1996

>> No.7366727

>>7364460
>>7364474
>>7364475
>>7364502
Can't you just hunt skulltulas until you get enough for bombchus as well?

>> No.7366732

>>7365475
FUCK I KNEW I WAS MISSING SOMETHING.
I'm a retard and somehow I ended up cutting a lot of graveyard footage.
Reuploading in a second.

>> No.7366751

>>7366727
You need 40 GS's to get bombchus.
I just did a count, without bombs or a boomerang you can only get 25 GS as a child.
Obviously there are glitches but the point is moot if we're including glitches.

>> No.7366763
File: 18 KB, 320x240, OoT-Brown_Sword_ND.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7366763

>>7366732
Here it is.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnvRNTdKPwU

>> No.7366775

>>7366751
Hmm, I thought there was a way to get them before getting a bomb bag glitchless. No glitches means you can't buy them in the desert or find them in the well, and I think the bomb shop in castle town can't be accessed yet either.
>>7364516
You don't need the bow to do either the fire or water temples. That I know for sure.

>> No.7366783
File: 9 KB, 270x187, index.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7366783

>>7366775
What about this?

>> No.7366798

>>7366783
that's the switch after you get the longshot right? Just save+quit to go back to the beginning or use farore's wind

>> No.7366945

>>7366214

Considering that the great fairies give you upgrades, unicorn is a fairy-ed horse, which would have upgraded Epona's speed and/or stamina.

>> No.7366959

>>7365417
based on absolutely no evidence at all I'm going to wildly speculate that they were gonna add mini dungeons in the places meant for child link that adult link could access. If only because I think it would be cool

>> No.7366978

>>7366798
Seems very unintentional on the dev’s part then, considering it’s a softlock you might need to turn off the system to get around.

Kind of a shame even if it’s still neat you can do it.

>> No.7367014

>>7366978
I think the fact that the water temple has more keys than you need to complete it meant that they intended for it to be able to be done out of order on some level, even if it wasn't completely realized in the final without getting cute with the spells.

>> No.7367045
File: 1.34 MB, 784x1020, Screen Shot 2021-02-02 at 8.39.52 pm.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7367045

who plays link in the inevitable beta ura adaption :D

>> No.7367128

>>7366959
Maybe it was for testing reasons but the two dd maps replaced the deku tree and jabu jabu dungeons. Now I wonder if the other spider house map would have replaced dodongo's cavern, but it wasn't in the leaked files.

>> No.7367185

>>7362665
I like that Temple of Time render a lot more.

>> No.7367229

>>7365626
I don't think you need the bow for Fire Temple but for the Water Temple.
There is an intended order but you're somewhat free. Navi just tells you where to go. They cut a lot of stuff out because it would be too much I guess but with Navi everything is much easier anyways.
You can see how much shit they had planned, I think that makes all this Alpha/Beta stuff so interesting. Sure, they reused some ideas in later Zelda games but still.

>> No.7367281

>>7365436
I can't really get behind the idea that MQ is Ura. They feel more like second quest stuff.
Some Ura stuff got over to MM, no doubt about that.
WW and TP probably got some scrapped ideas in, especially TP considering NoA blamed bad game/console sales numbers on WW being too much kiddyshit and pushing for future Zelda games to be just like OoT

>> No.7367445

>>7365475
>>7366763
Where did it go?

>> No.7367586

I know there's some speculation that we might be able to recover more of the data that was overwritten with super expensive data recovery. Is there any momentum on that happening?

It'd be great if some specialist just volunteered because they love OoT, but alternatively the cart owner or someone trusted in the community could try crowdfunding right?

I hesitate to suggest that though, given how cancerous crowd funding can be. They could just take the money and claim nothing was found.

>> No.7367597

>>7367586
I wouldn't get my hopes up, that kind of recovery (specifically doing data remanence on flash) is exceptionally niche. In terms of money spent:likelihood of getting beta assets, you'd be better off spending it buying other flash carts.

>> No.7367604

>>7367597
I should say that I'd love to be proven wrong. I know when I heard about Near's decapping project I didn't think he'd ever make progress but he certainly proved me wrong.

>> No.7367712

>>7367597
So, basically we lack autism?

>> No.7367832

>>7367586
>Is there any momentum on that happening?
So far We haven't heard anything

>> No.7368012

>>7367445
I had to reupload it because I left out some kakariko graveyard footage.

>> No.7368356

>>7366151
I still sleep sometimes thinking of adult Malon and her milkers
btw malon won the link bowl as proven here in a gamefaqs vote
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/632936-the-legend-of-zelda-breath-of-the-wild/70839064

so the discussion is over and proof irrefutable

>> No.7368365

>>7368356
doubt

>> No.7368414

>>7368356
>>7368365
>>7366151
Oh lord here we go

At least talk about beta waifu Aria to keep some vague semblance of being on topic

>> No.7368435

>>7368414
Her name isn't Aria.

>> No.7368438

>>7368435
Her name isn't anything. But if I say "Aria" then people know what I mean

>> No.7368691
File: 315 KB, 895x1280, cms8r51sous45_1280.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7368691

>>7368356
Regardless the times of peace made Link realize that teaching his offsprings how to fight would have been useless with no threats around so he raised a generations of farmers instead which hurted him greatly inside because he really wanted to pass down his skills

>> No.7368708

>>7368691
He also was horrified his descendant was into shortstacks from another realm than the local forest farm girl.

>> No.7368717

>>7368708
>the stacey twilight princess
>the virgin farmer girl

>> No.7368720

>>7368356
I mean the proof is in TP already. TP Link is OoT Link's descendant and he knows Epona's Song, a song explicitly composed by Malon's mother

>> No.7368952

>>7365475
I love the way the sword looks here

>> No.7369137
File: 36 KB, 400x300, OoT-Deku_Tree_2_IGN.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7369137

God, to think we ALMOST had this.
Or didn't I guess depending if the collector wasn't willing to sell had he knew of the overdump.
Did he knew of the overdump?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLkfUpdi-Po

>> No.7369147

>>7369137
I assume that it was sold to the dumper before they knew, given that hoarders usually aren't the type to datamine.

>> No.7369181

>>7369147
If I was the type to collect you damn well better believe I would let all my stuff get dumped.

>> No.7369850

>>7368952
It's actually kinda interesting that the sword that would become Biggoron's Sword was one of the earliest items added.

>> No.7370226

>>7367586
I think the only way to find out would be asking Forest of Illusion themselves on Twitter.

>> No.7370664
File: 34 KB, 97x157, what did beta link mean by this.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7370664

>>7368414
Aria is cute and she had a WIDE arrange of facial reactions, do any character in the final has as many facial reactions as well?
Also, does anyone else think her character model must've been eventually reworked into Malon? She's wearing Marin's dress, apparently.

>> No.7370686
File: 66 KB, 175x327, Marin.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7370686

>>7370664
She always looked like an attempt to make Marin to me (inb4 feet). I don't think that's the exact dress, but it's pretty similar. So either it's based on a real dress or it's supposed to look like Marin's Malon and Talon are an obvious callback to Marin and Tarin, too. So I'd wager that "Arya" is just beta Malon.

They probably never used that many facial expressions because the textures took up precious memory.

>> No.7370709
File: 435 KB, 313x767, Malon with object_human's textures.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7370709

>>7370686
You can make Malon load Aria's textures and they work semi-fine.

>> No.7370710
File: 507 KB, 635x478, object_human.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7370710

>>7370709
...But man, you can tell Yoshiaki Koizumi was still very much unexperienced dealing with this new 3D tech compared to the larger scheme of things in 1996, Aria looks much plumper than Malon, or other of the girls in Link's harem.
She also has facial textures for getting blushed and stuff.

>> No.7370729
File: 110 KB, 175x239, Ruto.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7370729

>>7370710
I think she looks kinda cute. Doofier than I expected up close. I'm glad we got Malon instead, either way. It's good to get closure on what and who she is after the eye rolling creepypastas and shit concerning "Arya".

A lot of the Beta models are clunky and strangely proportioned like that. I'd be willing to bet a lot of the dev time was spent just making the game look presentable enough.

Ruto does a blush in the final game, and it looks much better than that. The trial and error paid off, I guess. This expression made me feel funny as a kid.

>> No.7370740
File: 241 KB, 341x418, blushed aria yes i know aria isn't her name her name is object_human.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7370740

>>7370729
Here's a ""better"" picture of it without the night time coloring.
I never heard the "arya" spelling prior to you anon, just Aria.

>> No.7370743

>>7370729
Something I noticed like with the older Goron model is that the joints all look like they're obviously separate parts and are just "connecting" together like Mario's body in Super Mario 64, while the final OoT graphics do a much better job at looking more connected, almost seamless.

>> No.7370752
File: 60 KB, 492x613, fb-zeldagirl.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7370752

>>7362232
FUCK im so mad for finding this now, I have like 15 threads to read through now, is there a consolidated list of what has been found/rebuilt/documented?

>> No.7370768
File: 5 KB, 96x144, Dungeon Name Graphics.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7370768

>>7370752
Mostly everything is documented on OP but no one has updated the TCRF article in a while, for example the only thing you'd be missing is pick related, which is the Dungeon names's as they'd pop up when you enter the area.
The third name says "Special Course" and must be because Jabu Jabu wasn't exactly done or because this build was for Spaceworld 1997 which did call the Epona range "Special Course".

However of note is that Spirit Temple doesn't say "Spirit Temple", it says Evil Goddess Din Statue.

妖精デクの樹 The Fairy Deku Tree
ドドンゴの洞窟 Dodongo's Cavern
スペシアルコース Special Course
森の神殿 Forest Temple
炎の神殿 Fire Temple
水の神殿 Water Temple
邪神ディンの像 Statue of the Evil Goddess Din
闇の神殿 Shadow Temple
ガノンの塔 Ganon's Tower

We got early plot, however not super early, at this point child Link exists. Night time enemies would've been Gerudo thieves and not Stalchildren based on the dialogue context. There's only the warp songs.

Spirit Medallion would've worked like Fairy Spell of Zelda 2. Kokiris would've grown into adults.

Dungeons were MASSIVE, Great Deku Tree beta is stupidly big.

>> No.7370771

>>7370740
That's just me spelling it wrong. My bad.
>>7370743
Link's hat in his older model is likethat too. It barely has its regular shape
>>7370752
Check the TCRF article. It has everything.
https://tcrf.net/Proto:The_Legend_of_Zelda:_Ocarina_of_Time/Late_1997_Overdump

>> No.7370778
File: 288 KB, 896x512, all_ui_related_stuff.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7370778

>>7370752
The early Lens of Truth are the thing of wonder.
Pic related is the Pause Menu graphics.

>> No.7370793

>>7370771
His tunic's skirt too was like an action figure making the illusion of a skirt *as long* as the doesn't move the legs, rather than an actual flat poligon thing with the legs underneath.

>> No.7370815
File: 110 KB, 1404x524, 1b8be82d057495087de775a77b548972.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7370815

Interestingly, the Zelda 64 BETA has a whole different system for how eggs worked.
First of all, you could eat them to gain health, with the option to buy the eggs from stores and then choose between eating them immediately or saving them until later. Then, it seems the egg would hatch like it does in the final game, only the chicken that hatched (I guess they hadn't settled on Cucco yet?) would rest on your head.

Maybe instead of being able to pick up any old chicken, you'd have to hatch one and be able to use its hover ability for a while, or maybe have it as a permanent item mapped to C, and be able to hover any time. This would be pretty OP. I can see that being scrapped because you could so easily sequence break.

>>7370793
Kek. the Princess Leia and Emporer figures from Star Wars had that problem. They looked okay until you tried to move their legs at which point the skirt would break into two thicc ass pieces.

>> No.7370821

>>7370815
The "now what?" sounds a bit too cheeky of a dev comment, like they decided to incorporate Cuccos hatching as an "item" but had absolutely no fucking idea what to do with the it afterwards.

>> No.7370952

>>7370821
Maybe. It could have also been a prompt to think about what a chicken could be used for, be it hovering like I theorised, or waking up Talon like in the final.

Also, as far as I can tell due to the placement of the text, it seems you would have bought eggs and milk from a shop in lon lon ranch, instead of just using bottles on cows like in the released game.

>> No.7371009

>>7370952
there's unused chicks which were used on Majora's Mask, probably one of them would be on Link's head.

IIRC Iwata Asks, the old OoT team mention they just threw everything and saw what stuck, since there was nothing else to compare OoT to what they had done before, they really tried everything.
Honestly I miss when they used to do it like that, gaming industry is so standarized now.

>> No.7371035 [DELETED] 

>>7370952
Yeah. The Saturn would have benefited from a Saturn port. Maybe the game would be more well received, then. I never even knew it existed until I bought the Gems Collection.

>> No.7371040

>>7371035
The fuck. I meant to post this in another thread and 4chan won't let me delete

>>7371009
I agree. It was like the Wild West back then. Everyone was always innovating, now even the Indie scene is stagnant

>> No.7371058

>>7367586
>reddit spacing
not welcome here

>> No.7371182

>>7370752
Oh man, sucks to have missed the HAPPENING while it happened.

>> No.7371204

>>7371058
thats not reddit spacing you newfag sperg

>> No.7371273

>>7371204
Don't reply to /v/fugees

>> No.7371351

>>7370686
cute feet

>> No.7371360

>>7371040
>>7371009
Which is really weird considering they allegedly reuse ditched ideas from OoT. Sometimes it doesn't even make sense.
Like how Fado is the Wind Sage in WW like how OoT Fado was probably meant to be but then it's a completely different character.

>> No.7371482
File: 190 KB, 857x1490, white.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7371482

>>7370778
Say, any sign that the Light Arrows were Silver Arrows?
I know they're supposedly different in that Light "stuns" Ganon while Silver "kills" him but I thought that was to give more importance to the Master Sword.

>> No.7371497

>>7371204
back to your containment board

>> No.7371740
File: 1.95 MB, 1908x973, Screenshot (131).png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7371740

>>7370686
I think its supposed to be aria, a pun of saria since people think she was going to have the same presence. tcrf says somewhere that she became malon as they both have a wide array of expressions compared to anyone else in the game.

maybe the chicken hatching is a punishment for taking too long to eat it. now it hatched and is stuck on your head for a minute. you cant pick up stuff or use bombs with sometihng already over your head right?

i made a theory during the gigaleak about the hyruliean sewer system was reused as forest temple well. notice early A field has an entrance on the outside wall and its below ground level. the gigaleak well courtyard render is probably created for early A.

>> No.7371810
File: 15 KB, 347x238, onlysheknows.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7371810

>>7371740
>Aria was supposed to be the Shadow Sage
>Mido' seal text was a placeholder after she was removed from the game.

>> No.7371857

>>7371740
>the hyruliean sewer system was reused as forest temple well
Dang that's pretty plausible: it fits with the theme of reimagining stuff from LttP and the prerendered background def. seems more castle/castle town-ish than the forest temple.

>> No.7371896

>>7371857
ill make the assumption it was scrapped before they mapped it out. thinking of a reason why it would have been dropped as a sewer of varying complexity could have worked great but yeah canning it to further distance itself from its predecessor falls right into place.

>> No.7371918

>>7370778
>max bombs and arrows are 64
Cheeky cunts

>> No.7372079

>>7371482
The Light Medallion was silver in the overdump, and you got it during the Light Arrows Cutscene from Zelda instead of from Rauru when you became an adult.

>> No.7372142
File: 906 KB, 1753x1140, file.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7372142

>>7366135
>>7366151
>>7366214
>>7366170
I still have some old links to Zelda beta sites, enjoy

https://web.archive.org/web/20020208181154/http://maxpages.com/worldofz64/TRIFORCE_PICS

>> No.7372324

>>7372142
Man the Triforce hoax now THAT takes me back.

>> No.7372562

>>7371918
It even looks like the 64 on Zelda 64 older logos.

>> No.7372642
File: 987 KB, 1826x1157, file.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7372642

>>7372324
HOAX!! DO NOT READ!!!!!!

man i remember those days

tldr: girl used photos from pre-relase and demo videos to prove you can get the triforce but didnt explain all the steps :^)

>> No.7372672

>>7372642
Man, I'm fucking mad Flash no longer works, it makes HTLOZ basically unbrowsable anymore.

HTLOZ actually reported on the whole Ariana Almondoz thing before other websites, it was the source.

Here's everything compiled:
>https://htloz.net/archives/htloz/2000-2001/zelda5/aa_case.html

To this day, no one knows why the site died or where Falcon-X went.

>> No.7372703

>>7372672
But Flash does still work. There are multiple methods to get it running again. The easiest of which is to simply roll back your PC's date.

>> No.7372731

>>7372703
Oh. Then have fun, anons. I visited that website daily when I was 9 years old up until it closed. I loved it.

Dark Art section is kek-worthy now but I remember being in awe at the time thinking people drew good.

>> No.7372742

>>7372703
It's worth noting that browsers themselves are beginning to actively block the flash plugin from being installed, so it may not work.

>> No.7372890
File: 525 KB, 478x630, Against_Evil.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7372890

Here's some 1999 fan art SOUL.

>> No.7373016

>>7372742
In that case, you'll have to keep an eye out for a stable release of the Ruffle extension, which is currently still in beta.

>> No.7373031

>>7371740
>maybe the chicken hatching is a punishment for taking too long to eat it.
That makes sense, actually. I like it. They did a similar thing in Earthbound, but I think in that game the chicken just takes up inventory space.
>>7371810
Kek. Sounds like a creepypasta to me. Pretty sure she wasn't even called Aria. It's more likely that she's just beta Malon.
>>7372142
Legend. This is gonna be hours of reading.
>>7372642
>>7372672
I remember reading this. The main tell for some people that it was fake was that Link was right handed in her screenshots.

>> No.7373035

>>7373016
Or use a browser that doesn't block Flash.

>> No.7373058

>>7373031
>Pretty sure she wasn't even called Aria.
She wasn't, it was just a fan-name by the community who discovered her once they found her on the debug ROM and were able to make her load in-game.
Just a cute nickname to not call her object_human or en_GirlA, her object and actor names respectively.

>>7373035
Any reccomendation for that?

>> No.7373063

>>7373058
I use Waterfox Classic. Though there seems to be something of an issue with trying to view flashes on a site that implements Ruffle. Causes the browser to hang. I'm not sure if it's because Waterfox has an issue with Ruffle or if it's because of a tug-of-war between Ruffle and Flash. Most likely the latter. Uninstalling Flash might become an inevitability.

>> No.7373080

>>7364448
They really shouldn't have put those boulders blocking the way to Zora's River. Otherwise you could just do Jabu Jabu's Belly just fine and the nonlinearity would not have detracted from the game whatsoever. Originally both Death Mountain and Zora's River were blocked off by a guard gate and opening one with Zelda's Letter automatically opened the other. That would have been a much cooler way to do it than having there just be one guard and the other one blocked off until you beat that dungeon.

>> No.7373085

>>7364940
In the debug ROM Link's age values are still 5 and 17

>> No.7373089

>>7364986
Japanese prototype collectors are uberhoarders sadly. They consider it disrespectful to dump the protos or even release footage of them.

>> No.7373097

>>7373080
Yeah. No idea why they changed it to boulders. Even if it's just a small touch like that, nonlinearity goes a long way for a kid playing an adventure game.
We all probably would've done it in the same order, anyway, with Navi prompting you and whatnot.

>> No.7373098

>>7366142
Remember Zelda's Secret Ocarina? Remember The Odyssey of Hyrule? Remember Zelda: Grand Adventures?

>> No.7373116
File: 178 KB, 450x618, Saria_Portrait.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7373116

>>7373097
Yeah, a shame to do it we have to do it the stupid way with Navi Dive if we want to do it non-linear.

>>7373098
Fuck yeah I do, I'm actually genuinely mad I can't access the very early 00's/01's version of Zelda: The Grand Adventures of Nintendoland's website (no relation to the Wii U game, for the unaware). There's a piece of fanart I want to retrieve from there, of Link crying because his wallet is getting empty while Zelda and... I think it was Malon or Saria being on a shopping spree on Market.
For some reason it tried to load newer broken versions of itself because ads or some shit. If anyone can/wants to try to do it absolutely be my guest. Please do it. For the sake of old Zelda fandom history.

>> No.7373128
File: 296 KB, 2010x908, file.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7373128

>>7373098
>>7373116
>>7372642
cant believe i still have ZSO bookmarked. found in in my old pre-2005 bookmarks list. sad that 90% of those sites are gone now

https://web.archive.org/web/20050209114842/http://www.zso.krahs-emag.com:80/

>> No.7373156

>>7373116
>For some reason it tried to load newer broken versions of itself because ads or some shit.
The problem is it keeps trying to redirect to the version of the site with frames. For whatever reason, Internet Archive's attempted archive of the site causes it to refresh infinitely while it's trying to load. If you stop the page from loading before it can redirect and look in the page source, you can see that the page you're looking for is still there. I used this technique to extract an incredibly edgy Mario fanfiction from the archive despite the page refusing to display.

If someone with knowledge of HTML could download the pages and edit them to load properly, that'd be really great.

>> No.7373202

>>7373116
Cute nails

>> No.7373209

>>7373156
>If you stop the page from loading before it can redirect and look in the page source, you can see that the page you're looking for is still there
Pretty hard since it loads immediatly, fast internet biting me in the ass and me not remembering exactly WHICH page of the site had that artwork I mentioned. ;_; It wasn't the fanart page, that much I'm 100% sure.

I agree, if anyone with knowledge of HTML could help that'd be swell.
Man, it sucks I didn't save that fanart but even then I was a child with no foresight.

>> No.7373229

>>7362232
I've been here for the whole ride since the gigaleak, and I've been looking into ocarina of time beta stuff for years.

Is there a comprehensive list of discoveries organized by date?
I feel like the way people are doing things now isn't the best way to archive this information. people are going to have to keep digging through archived 4chan threads and the files themselves for years.

tl;dr someone should be working on a sectioned list based on discoveries from leftovers on the release cart, what was discovered in gigaleak, and what we got recently.

>> No.7373239

>>7373229
Problem is some stuff isn't properly dated, instead it got like retrival dates or some shit, so we really can't do much other than speculated based on the year, date and HUD the areas leaked and dumped compare to the screenshots in the month and year order they appeared.

>> No.7373250

>>7373229
TCRF is working on documenting it, slowly but surely.

>> No.7373261

>>7373098
odyssey of hyrule was my favorite ever website. I was obsessed with oot for those 2 years or so after it came out. reading about the mysteries and trying to do the glitches. then majoras mask came out and it was kind of a disappointment. good enough game on its own but coming after oot it was kind of depressing and weird. I wanted oot2, instead I got bizarro land zelda with none of my favorite locales or characters from oot. I remember he did a follow-up website for mm, oddity of hyrule, but it never took off because mm just wasnt the same

>> No.7373279

>>7373239
right, and I think everyone's okay with not having that kind of information, even as important as it is.

what I was talking about was to have the date of discovery, that way people can see the density of discoveries from the gigaleak when it first happened, the slower discoveries from it after the next few weeks/months etc.

I feel like having a list like that is important to the people who go back into the leak folders to know what people haven't found yet, because from what I understand there's still a lot from that and the current leak to break down.

>> No.7373375

>>7373279
I guess that could be suggested on their discord assuming they'd be willing to listen.

>> No.7373385

>>7373279
otherwise youll end up like >>7370752
and have to seatch through 5000 posts to see whats been found

>> No.7373396

>>7373385
*posts original image of beta asset never seen before*

archived bro! check the previous thread and skim through all the reaction images!

>> No.7373404

Did they find that old Zelda 64 town that looked like the Wet Dry World town? that's all I really want

>> No.7373438

>>7373404
Unfortunately, no. We got Early 1997 Lake Hylia and Hyrule Field tho.

>> No.7373457

>>7373438
I saw those. Very cool, man

>> No.7373460

>>7366214
You know, the "press C direction to equip Item to A and then use the item with A" seems to me like an extremely cumbersome system, I hated it when they used it on Twilight Princess, when pressing a D-Pad direction and just that would've been fine.

>> No.7373464

>>7373460
I have limitless complaints about Wii TP and SS but how you equip items isn't one of them.

>> No.7373468

>>7373239
a lot of stuff you can estimate based on the textures and barriers.
stalfos rooms,fstdan are A+B
kakariko and graveyard are a+c
earlier field, zora river, lake, forest temple outside=early a

>> No.7373475

>>7373464
Bear in mind, I played the GameCube version, so when I tried the Wii version out of curiosity years later when I got a Wii and hacked it, it stood out to me like a sore thumb.

imo the "official" way to go currently is the HD version, I like having regular controls but also gyro aiming

>>7373468
beta Forest Meadow and Zora's River look like they beyond to extremely Early Sword on A, before Child Link became a thing, when A, B and the C buttons still used that glossy icon as opposed to the more flat buttons we got in the final game.

>> No.7373481

>>7373475
>imo the "official" way to go currently is the HD version, I like having regular controls but also gyro aiming
One of the only things I hate more than Twilight Princess is the Wii U

>> No.7373483

I remember spending a long time trying to figure out how to getup to the wooden ledge inside the lonlon storehouse, where you push the blocks to find a heartpiece as a kid. Years later I saw from hack videos that there was nothing up there. I always assumed that was just an intentional mystery with no answer, but now I wonder if it was leftover beta stuff they never took out.

Same thoughts for those wooden platforms way up high in the kakariko windmill, wouldnt be surprised if that was originally intended to be a whole obstacle course.

It’s commonly accepted that running man’s challenge is the leftovers from a sidequest that didnt make it to the final game, but I wonder why they kept him in. Too much shit would’ve broken from removing him? Or an intentionally unsolvable quest for the sake of mystery, like I thought with the wooden platform at lonlon?

>> No.7373492

>>7373483
Running Man was part of the mask questline, so it probably would have been too much hassle to remove him. That, and he seems to be some kind of in-joke at Nintendo, considering that they reused his face texture in Mario Sunshine.

>> No.7373497

>>7373481
In my defense, I like to use it as my all in one retro emulation machine, plus whatever games I don't need a Switch to enjoy like Bayo2 or BotW

>>7373483
Most likely the wooden ledge they just did it for scenery, not thinking too much of it. The devs didn't seem devious enough to fuck with the player at face value, like Rare did with Conker with the chocolate piece you can't get... But the running man?
Oh I'm sure that DEFINITELY was kept just to fuck with people.

>> No.7373508

>>7373483
>>7373492
>>7373497
Reminds me of all those sites and videos that claimed if you waited seven hours in real time on the bridge, 7 years would pass and you'd beat the Running Man via time paradox. I don't know why I believed all this shit.

>> No.7373520

>>7373508
Videogames during that time had all sorts obtuse and far out secrets plus the lack of knowledge how shit worked on a technical level.
For example "get to the end of Armor Armadillo's stage at full health in Mega Man X, grab the capsule then kill yourself, do it again 3 more times and the fifth time Dr. Light will give you the Hadoken".

For all intents and purposes this sounds like bullshit, yet it was real.

>> No.7373534

>>7373520
it was just random shit done obtuse on purpose so kids had to buy the guides and magazines. It definitely sounds like absurd bullshit and yet, everyone still knew about it.

>> No.7373550

>>7373497
>In my defense, I like to use it as my all in one retro emulation machine
This, the two HD GameCube Zeldas, uncensored Tokyo Mirage Sessions, uncensored Xenoblade Chronicles X, Fatal Frame V, and Star Fox Zero are like the only reasons to even hold onto a Wii U at this point. It's shocking how hard Nintendo dropped the ball on it.

>> No.7373551
File: 608 KB, 1405x1067, Screenshot (143).png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7373551

>>7373475
id change zora river to earlier a+c since it uses the old walls like kakariko.
the question is: where is this? is this a field? is it the same field we have now? did a+c have its own hyrule field? can we recreate this angle on the map we have?

>> No.7373567

>>7372142
just went to the cheat section out of curiosity, someone mentions that if you wait 4-5 minutes after the end screen freezes it plays your scarecrow song??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujKlqJOM6Hs
actually just blew my mind a little

>> No.7373569

>>7373551
We can't recreate this angle because we don't have this map, this is a VERY early Desert Colossus. There's screenshots of this area with Leevers already. Surprisingly, Leevers weren't revised and are identical in the final game.

>> No.7373570

>>7373569
It's the Forest Mansion map, senpai.

>> No.7373579
File: 434 KB, 800x500, Proto_OoT_Valley_ov.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7373579

>>7373551
Your best bet would be to check out the early Gerudo Valley
https://youtu.be/fe79ZVZlwhQ

>> No.7373586

>>7373567
Never knew about that. What a strange secret. It's sound like shit for me because my scarecrow song is always just "^^^^vvvv"

>> No.7373592
File: 30 KB, 320x238, proto horse.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7373592

>>7373570
Huh? No, that sunset is a desert map, not the Forest Mansion/Temple map, dude. This trailer also saw the pop up of Desert battle screenshots around this time.

>>7373551
Although I understand why you'd say they belong to A+C, I believe they belong to the very, very Early Sword on A since the old Field we have seems to be the same as pic related.

Of course, A+C HUD seems to have lasted only like 3 months, so it could've been made then, but then shown here.

>> No.7373596

>>7373592
>Huh? No, that sunset is a desert map, not the Forest Mansion/Temple map, dude. This trailer also saw the pop up of Desert battle screenshots around this time.
People have re-created the sunset screenshot on the Forest Mansion map with Link's back turned to the mansion.

>> No.7373603

>>7373596
Oh shit, really? Sauce? I've only seen the one with the huge Dekubabas and the small Moblins.

>> No.7373605

>>7373603
>>7373596
I'd also like to see this. Sounds like it could be true, but to me it looks like the ground is sand in the screenshot

>> No.7373620

>>7373605
solid green grass+red hue of sunset

>> No.7373623

>>7373567
>>7373586
I'm sure the 3 people who made their Scarecrow Song audibly pleasing AND waited on the credits screen appreciated this secret.

>> No.7373675

>>7373603
>>7373605
https://twitter.com/overdosingsugar/status/1352312483734720514

I saw this on Mr Cheeze's twitter two weeks ago.

>> No.7373690

>>7373675
huh. That's unexpected.

>> No.7373717

>>7364502
If, hypothetically, you died in the middle of Dodongo's Cavern, you'd respawn at the entrance. A frustrated player might want to leave the cavern and find something else to do.

>> No.7373745

>>7373675
Wild. It still doesn't look identical to me, but I'll accept it. Is there anything like that in the final game, where the sunset actually drastically changes the visuals? There is a sunset in the retail release, but only day/night seems to noticably change the lighting.
We can also chalk up the colour change to bad quality video, 'course.

>> No.7373747

>>7373492
>Running Man was part of the mask questline, so it probably would have been too much hassle to remove him.
You could probably remove him from the adult part of the game fairly easily though.

I think they were just fucking with people.

>> No.7373798

>>7373745
Since this stuff is being imported into final OOT, we unfortunately don't have the lighting effects that would have been in the original. An example is the iron knuckle model we found. In OOT's current engine, we can't get it to shine the same way it did in the original screens.

>> No.7373810

>>7373717
The odds of dying between getting the Bomb Bag and activating the elevator to the second floor are astronomically low - frankly, most players can be expected to open Dondongo's mouth before dying. The Cavern is basically set up so that if you do have the Bombs, beating it while you're there is much easier than leaving and coming back later.

>> No.7373879

>>7373717
>>7373810
Really I think that text was just there in case someone intentionally sequence broke by leaving a dungeon half finished.

>> No.7373962

>>7373879
>>7373810
Yeah. I think that was settled earlier in the thread, though. The text is still in the game, and all that
>>7373798
That's a shame. It's a nice effect.

>> No.7374083

Looking at the lighting effects and real time growth and npc schedules and all the other stuff they wanted to implement, I'm pretty astonished at the scope they had initially planned for this game.

Reminds me of Ultima 9 in terms of ambition. As much as I (and even moreso I'm sure they) would've liked to get the 'full' game out, good on them for recognizing the limitations they had and being able to get OOT out as good as it was. It's so easy to imagine them not being able to let all this stuff go and ending up releasing a buggy unfinished mess cause they wanted to get everything in.

>> No.7374154

>>7374083
They seemed to flip between hyper ambitious and very dialed back a few times during OoT's development. I remember an interview where Sakurai stated the game was originally going to use Hyrule Castle or Ganondorf's Castle as a hub world, similar to Peach's Castle in Mario 64, before they realised the true capabilities of the console. Supposedly the final Phantom Gannon fight reuses this idea, having him come in and out of paintings.
Then you hear about this ultra ambitious shit that Oblivion failed to get right a whole decade later. Seems that it took them a lot of time getting that perfect medium.

>> No.7374259

>>7374154
You're thinking Koizumi yeah. Apparently their devkit was weaker than what they thought the final N64 ended up being hence the whole "Mario 64 only uses about 40% the console's power" comment. Once they realized what they could do they probably went from from super scaled back to super ambitious and then finally fell on the right place by the last 7 months of development.

>> No.7374272

>>7371740
>>7371857
It is significant that TP *also* had a castle town sewer system, knowing how much they borrowed from OoT for that game.

>> No.7374286

>>7372562
Was that Zelda 64 logo even made by Nintendo?

>> No.7374287

>>7374286
They used it for Shoshinkai 1996.

>> No.7374313
File: 46 KB, 633x73, Q81k4QbDIx.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7374313

>>7367586
you don't understand, so here's an explanation

>> No.7374314

>>7374272
Oh yeah, and that leads into the castle at the start of TP.

And now that I think about it, you DO enter hyrule castle in OOT through that little waterway. It probably was originally a minidungeon or at least a path of enemies and obstacles, with the entrance being on the outside of the town walls if these leaks are anything to go by.

It's a really cool idea. Shame they had to scrap it. Would've been so cool to figure out how to sneak in using that kind of exploration, and finding a minidungeon (or at least maybe a path with some enemies) in the process.

>> No.7374331

>>7374314
Part of me thinks breaking through a sewe was removed in favor of the stealth mini game because of Miyamoto not wanting Link to be "too cool", and wanting the game and Link have some "whimsical".

>> No.7374342

>>7374313
Imagine being this retarded.

>> No.7374372

>>7374331
That seems so weird to me considering it's come out somewhat recently that around the N64 he was a little miffed about Mario being a bit too childish.

They could've included both anyway, the sewer gate you climb through in the final game could've been the same exit. I don't know what they'd do when throwing you out then, but still. Not like the hide-n-seek guards throwing you out INTO the castle courtyard just outside the waterway makes much sense in the final game anyway.

Maybe it could've just led to the castle moat, and then from there you do the same stuff with Talon and the egg and the box pushing. Could've just been yet another way of sneaking in.

Well, it's all hypothetical anyway. There could've been a million reasons not to do it this way that we'd never guess at.

>> No.7374390

>>7374372
I don't remember where this theory or rumor originated from, but I recall for ages Bottom of the Well being rumored to originally being the Hyrule Castle sewer system, and that it became the minidungeon we know as to not scrap an already worked-on game area completely.
I don't know if anyone here remembers this or can shed any light on it if there's any evidence backing it up, but it's a neat concept, especially now that we know that the Lens of truth were already a thing in 1997 but the Well wasn't in the early Kakariko.

>> No.7374403

>>7374313
We're talking about remnants of the data that might still exist due to the fact that the devcart flash chip stores digital bits as *analog* signals.

I really doubt it though, since there was more than just F-zero on the cart. There was a list of games that was on it that you can find on the TCRF discord, but I forgot it. It was like 6 games between Zelda and F-zero though.

>> No.7374414

>>7364674
Fuck Navi in general, you can't go 5 minutes of exploring without her pestering you to get on with the plot.

>> No.7374418

>>7374414
If you talk to her, she won't bug you anymore unless you save and reset.

>> No.7374423

>>7374390
I remember this being something talked about on ZSO. I wonder what evidence they actually had though. I do remember stuff like the fairy ceremony being talked about as well.

>> No.7374441

>>7373592
It looks like you can see his bomb bag on his back.

>> No.7374446

>>7374390
Interesting. It does make some sense considering that dungeon's shape and contents. Thematically I think it fits better hidden under kakariko and being the water they drink from, but having something similar connected to hyrule castle would certainly raise a lot of interesting questions early on. It still could've been implied to be a secret path the sheikah used. There's also a good chance they would've removed a lot of the spooky stuff if it'd been the entrance to hyrule castle though.

No idea if any of this is true, but if I had to pick between a castle sewer path and the bottom of the well I'd definitely pick the game we got. Bottom of the well is one of the most remembered and talked about areas in the entire game, it really stuck with people.

>> No.7374453

>>7374441
>equipment becoming a visible part of your character
Fuck, that'd be really cool even today.

>> No.7374454
File: 2.15 MB, 682x442, 1595800989606.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7374454

>>7374390
Back then, it was because people used to assume that the Forest Temple was built off of Hyrule Castle since it's the only castle interior in the game, it had two wells that connected two rooms, there's a well in the middle of the Market, and they had to replace the Wind Temple at some point. It was just circumstantial evidence.

Now when the Gigaleak happened, we got this pre-render of an area called "garden" with a well in the middle too. In the overdump, there's a grave on the side of the wall down from the entrance to Castle Town people think that a well could have led out of, similarly to A Link to the Past.

It's really all just circumstantial evidence.

>> No.7374458

>>7374441
>>7374453
https://tcrf.net/Proto:The_Legend_of_Zelda:_Ocarina_of_Time/iQue/Removed_Display_Lists

>> No.7374473

>>7374458
Fuck, it's sad we missed that. I like how BOTW lets you see his Bow. MGS2 also had a phase of development like that. In The Document of MGS2 you can see footage of Snake running with every weapon on his back.

>> No.7374478

>>7374454
>people used to assume that the Forest Temple was built off of Hyrule Castle since it's the only castle interior in the game, it had two wells that connected two rooms, there's a well in the middle of the Market, and they had to replace the Wind Temple at some point
Interesting, never considered the possibility that FT was originally a build for hyrule castle.

Like you said, it's all circumstantial so we can't say anything for certain, but I am seeing FT in a new light. Even the courtyard entrance would make sense as an early version of the hide n seek minigame.

>> No.7374485

>>7374454
>>7374478
Is there even evidence that there was a Wind Temple at this point?

>> No.7374493

>>7374485
Pretty sure it's confirmed there were going to be wind arrows, and ganon's castle of beta assets has a big wind section in place of a forest one.

>> No.7374495
File: 91 KB, 1360x715, 1611101492852.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7374495

>>7374485
Given that there's shit like picrel that we had no clue about, I wouldn't doubt it - but I don't think we have any smoking guns.

>> No.7374496

>>7374485
>Is there even evidence that there was a Wind Temple at this point?
At this point in the overdump? It's gone. At some point earlier? There's a wind puzzle in the Shadow Temple, and the Forest Trial in Ganon's Castle is a room where you kill a wolfos then light some torches, then do a room that's one big wind puzzle. The Forest Medallion icon also looks like a fan, and the Wind Medallion magic was Farore's Wind. Wind is then used for Deku Scrub puzzles in Majora's Mask, and Majora's Mask has a whole Wind Temple.

This is all circumstantial too, but there's no reason to assume that there never was a Wind Temple.

>> No.7374502

>>7374495
Same thing with the Ice Temple

>> No.7374503

>>7374496
>and Majora's Mask has a whole Wind Temple.
and Wind Waker*

>> No.7374510

>>7374446
Even with the spooky stuff it raises serious questions about the Royal Family's... disposition. I know this website as a whole hates >ecelebs but there's a video by, I think it was Zeltik, who raises the proposition that the ReDeads we see in Market already existed beneath Hyrule Castle, guarding underground, placed by the Royal Family themselves and now that Ganon destroyed Hyrule Castle they began roaming Castle Town.
It's a neat proposition, especially since we know the >clay doll thing is bullshit HAL Laboratory came up with so Smash's rating wouldn't go up.

>> No.7374550

>>7374495
Seeing as there's no entrance/exit, my guess is that that map would be part of a cutscene showing what happened to the deku tree dungeon after the Great Deku Tree died and the part that would contain the entrance/exit would be hidden with fog/darkness to save on polygons.

>> No.7374554

>>7374550
It's probably just a prototype Great Deku Tree desu

>> No.7374567

>>7374554
An earlier version, maybe? We did got the Spaceworld 1997 one which was also a large spiral thing in which we were supposed to save fairies.

>> No.7374573

>>7374567
I fully believe the concept of saving fairies was reused in Majora's Mask and the missing actor from the overdump that was supposed to be inside some chests were an alpha OoT equivalent of stray fairies considering all we've learned about OoT and MM through these leaks.

>> No.7374585

>>7374573
What you say makes absolutely perfect sense, I had thought the concept was more related to saving monkeys in Twilight Princess to cross bigger gaps since some of those jumps seem REALLY tight in the 1997 deku tree dungeon.

Maybe the concept became both?

>> No.7374613

>>7374585
>some of those jumps seem REALLY tight in the 1997 deku tree dungeon.
I don't have the gifs or footage on hand but didn't Link originally jump way further? I could've sworn there was some early stalfos combat footage that showed him backflipping and forward jumpslashing like twice as high/far as he does in the final game.

>> No.7374618

>>7374585
Could it be possible to import the Stray Fairies into OoT on the missing actor thing? Do the IDs between the games match?
Or maybe the opposite?

>> No.7374619

>>7374613
Actually, makes me wonder if that dungeon was made when the game was still 30fps.

Changing the framerate fucks with the jump physics, you can do this with the practice rom.

>> No.7374625

>>7374619
it also breaks the game, but it makes me wonder if they changed the framerate and then edited everything to work properly, but never got the physics to *exactly* match what they used to be.

>> No.7374626

>>7374613
originally Z+Stick Forward + B was a frontal jump, during the your frontal jump you'd press A to do a Jump Attack and seems like that could give you a slight bit extra distance. Skyward Sword reused this idea.

>> No.7374627

>>7374619
Increasing the framerate to 30fps makes Link's jumps shorter and cover less distance.

>> No.7374630

>>7374627
see >>7374625

>> No.7374634

>>7374619
>Changing the framerate fucks with the jump physics, you can do this with the practice rom
What is this Practice ROM you speak of? Tell me more.

>> No.7374639

>>7374634
https://practicerom.com/
https://github.com/glankk/gz

>> No.7374641

>>7374634
https://practicerom.com/

>> No.7374645

Anyone seen this yet?
https://twitter.com/Leonard85026417/status/1357147516769341440?s=19

>> No.7374661

where are the high res images (textures, icons) coming from? not from the actually cart right?

>> No.7374679

>>7374661
The gigaleak.
Nintendo's servers still have full-res images of icons and promotional material.

>> No.7374712

>>7374679
damn i remember when that was big news but it was thousands of posts dozens of theads and miles of data to sort through so glad some good came of it

>> No.7374776

>>7374712
Supposedly, people are still hoarding data.
For all we know, one of them might have an A+B build.

>> No.7374805

>>7374776
Seems likely. Hoardfags will hoardfag.

>> No.7374992
File: 735 KB, 2385x1099, file.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7374992

>>7373128
man im having a memory trip going through ZSO again, havent seen some of this in 15 years.

has been be explained ever (or in the gigaleak/dump) what the triforce pedestal animation is from?

>> No.7375010

>>7374992
We still dont know. No assets of that were found.

>> No.7375056

>>7374992
Looking at these just makes you think how far things have come, not just in info but basic comprehension. I assume people who wrote this were pretty young.

>> No.7375060

>>7375056
Most websites in the late 90s were at best written by high schoolers early 20s and at worst 12 year olds with a free geocities account

>> No.7375064

>>7374992
It was probably just made for trailers and screenshots before they knew what they were doing with it

>> No.7375068

>>7375060
Some of the geocities sites who got beyond the cursed "Under construction" mantra however were pretty neat, many of them archiving sweet midis and info.

>> No.7375083

>>7375068
There's some archived through Oocities which are pretty good. I found a Runescape website which was from before the graphics switched to 3D, and it had screencaps of all these early 00s internet friends hanging out in the newly released Rune armour, as well as guides on all the quests that existed at the time. It was all written in a similar quaint fashion to >>7374992
I miss that internet.

>> No.7375089
File: 22 KB, 400x292, Zelda1Hand.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7375089

Picrel might be an early version of the big maze room in the GTG overdump?

>> No.7375092

>>7374992
>>7375010
I don't understand this fixation with "finding the Triforce". I don't think I've ever heard of a build where it was ever mentioned as something you collect or use lmao. It's in the final game ffs, there is a model for it in cutscenes. Who cares. It's also clear that's a sequence meant for the demo/promotion just to look cool.

>> No.7375119

>>7375092
I guess the power of the gods is a bit too enticing, especially after you get it in ALttP where that particular Link uses it to basically Reset Button all of the damage Ganon did.

>>7375083
>I miss that internet.
Me too, man. Me too. I hate how standarized and "clean" everything is and I despise "endless scrolling" with all my heart. It's like gaming development mentioned earlier IIT, things were more fun and interesting before they were standarized.

>> No.7375125

>>7375089
Could also be from when they were recreating Dungeon 1 from Zelda NES, what with the wallmaster and blocky geometry.
>>7375092
It's /because/ of that promotion. Back then we didn't all understand the concept of cut content to the same dgree we do now. My logic at least, was if they showed Link collecting it in a video, that meant Link could collect it. It doesn't help that in the first game the plot revolves around collecting triforce pieces, and in ALttP you finish the game by getting it (in epic 3d graphics, might I add).

>> No.7375129
File: 753 KB, 1804x827, gtgmaze.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7375129

>>7375089
Its clearly from right at the end of A+B (Navi is there), just when the game was starting to shed the more cartoony look of the super early screens for the final aesthetic.

>>7375092
I think its that the Triforce was in every main Zelda game at the time, as well as that early screenshot.
People were a lot younger as mentioned - I legit remember being 12 and seeing a beta screenshot (of another game) and looking forward to it.

Nowadays I think its that people just want closure, even if they *know* its just a test map/whatever.

>>7375125
>perspectives of the time
You've got it.

>> No.7375136

>>7375129
>Nowadays I think its that people just want closure
This is exactly it.
When you're 8, 9, 10 or even 12 and you grow reading this, then in your teen years discussing it with other people your age or somewhat older, looking at screenshots, doing the "beta quest" gameshark, it fuels your mind. As a kid it's all new. Exciting.

By the end, you just want closure on it all. And when I read the word "closure" the Staff Role music from ALttP plays in my head.

>> No.7375386

Anyone here hope the OoT decompiled source code sheds more light on what we dont know?

>> No.7375390

>>7375083
>>7375119
I still have all my bookmarks circa 2001-2006 and almost all of them are now dead. thank god for archive.org but so many of those sites were just passion projects by someone who cared alot about someting

>> No.7375426

>>7375386
That'd be great. We'd probably get more of this "developer loves you" shit too. what the fuck was that all about, anyway? You all know what I mean, right? When you walk around the Temple of Time, it triggers a message that says some shit like "hello :) developer loves you" which you can see with hacking tools. I can't find a picture or video now, for some odd reason.
>>7375390
A lot of what I looked at back then was OoT fansites and fanart. This game inspired people like nothing else, even when it was 10 years old. It wasn't even until pretty recently that people started saying shit like "actually the old game is DATED therefore BAD lol epic"

Anyone remember this? It's pretty cringe looking back:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zd0Clkqx_Ls&ab_channel=Scottymation

>> No.7375434

>>7375426
You mean the I LOVE YOU page in OoT's crash debugger?

>> No.7375435

>>7375390
i was big into beta then too, Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, OOT, even MM. I thought it was so cool there were other versions of the game that only existed in photos and at best tiny remants in the game. I actually begged my dad for a gameshark when i learned of the Dam island from a beta site (Subdrag, or Detstar back when it was the Terrorists site)

>> No.7375446

>>7375434
Maybe. All I remember is seeing a video of someone walking around the Temple of Time and a message was popping up that said some shit like that. Was a while ago, 2010 at the latest.

>> No.7375452

>>7375446
im pretty sure youre thinking of the error messages from the crooked cartridge trick

>> No.7375468
File: 10 KB, 320x237, ZeldaOoT-CrashDebug-011.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7375468

The crash debugger. When looking at the version info page you also receive a declaration of love.
https://tcrf.net/The_Legend_of_Zelda:_Ocarina_of_Time/Crash_Debugger

>> No.7375474

>>7375452
>>7375468
Ah. That's it, then. No idea what video I'm thinking of, though. I wonder why the programmer of the debugger is so infatuated with me.

>> No.7375491
File: 44 KB, 313x237, old_hyrule_path.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7375491

Somehow I wasn't aware of this extra path nearby the side of the castle town wall

>> No.7375501
File: 43 KB, 313x237, old_hyrule_path2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7375501

>>7375491

>> No.7375502

>>7375474
Because YOU ARE GREAT BEBUGGER!

>> No.7375505

>>7375501
Probably the loading zone for beta Kakariko?

>> No.7375515
File: 210 KB, 640x470, OoT-Ground_Octos_NPS_r.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7375515

>>7375505
Its on the side with that weird door, and the waterfall.
Maybe the desert? Or possibly picrel?

>> No.7375518
File: 20 KB, 400x302, OoT-April_Interface_NPS.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7375518

>>7375515

>> No.7375521

>>7375515
Sadly, all we can do is speculate.
God, I hope one day we get A+B or A+C build.

>> No.7375568
File: 53 KB, 313x237, graveyard_texture.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7375568

The graveyard brick texture looks like shit on real hardware/accurate plugins due to the low resolution

>> No.7375580

>>7375568
Either it looked better on a CRT+real hardware, or that's why they didn't use it. It looked better on trade shows though.

>> No.7375665

>>7375568
That /does/ look like shit. A lot of this game does on modern displays, though. I was just playing on an emulator and I was shocked by how horribly blurry the prerendered background in Link's house is.
How are you all playing in the BETA maps? Is there a romhack that re-adds them yet or are you doing it manually?

>> No.7375670

>>7375665
its in the OP

>> No.7375673

>>7375670
Oops. Reddit moment.

>> No.7375697
File: 1.17 MB, 1019x745, FSTDAN.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7375697

>Load up fstdan
>immediately start taking damage
>die
Man I wish this is the game we got

>> No.7375713

>>7375665
,>It looks blurry thats why i gotta make it extra blurry and play on a 10 inch potato crt with color aberration and scanlines. So it looks better
Hipsters are so dumb

>> No.7375716

The reason it looked bad is because the moire pattern from the lack of mipmapping. This would happen on a CRT too.

>> No.7375717

>>7375697
Check out the other ROM from months ago in DrDisco's youtube channel, it has a playable fstdan with enemies, this one was a quick dirty and done job of the maps and collision

>> No.7375734
File: 1.26 MB, 1914x729, Old Hyrule Field.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7375734

In the older Hyrule Field you can see what look to be the spires on the Temple of Time or Hyrule Castle, only they're pretty small and if you move away a little, you can see where they end.
In all, this version of the field is pretty nice. It has a lot of rough geometry, tall hills and all that. It'd be fun to traverse on horseback, and with some NPCS and enemies would be a great map. Not sure why they made the final one so flat in comparison.
We all know this already, but the house from that famous screenshot with "Aria" is in this map, and not Lake Hylia like I always thought.
>>7375713
It's more that it hides the details and blurs the lines so the game looks consistent and its flaws aren't as visible. In theory at least.

>> No.7375747

>>7375734
The cookie cutter house is all over the place in the old maps.

>> No.7375754

>>7375474
Maybe this one?
https://youtube.com/watch?v=PKcCM3gC3zA

Damn, I made that crappy video 10 years ago. Still have my N64 from back then in working condition, but it's the shitty PAL one.

Yeah, it has nothing to do with the Temple of Time. You have to do Crooked Cartridge until the game crashes and a yellow bar appears in the top left, and then input a long button combo.

>> No.7375763

>>7375734
The beta Lake Hylia that had Aria with the house is in the map list man, it was reworked slightly but still largely identical.

>> No.7375765
File: 22 KB, 320x240, zelda_new16n64c.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7375765

>>7375747
I think someone said that in the last thread. They seem to have made one house and pasted it everywhere. It's probably that the Castle Town in picrel was also entirely comprised of that house but with different textures. I'd still love to run around in it, though.

>>7375754
That could be it. Looks familiar. If it's not your one, then it's a similar one showing the same thing.
It was probably bored programmers typing up all the wacky messages, thinking about it.

>> No.7375778

>>7375765
>It's probably that the Castle Town in picrel was also entirely comprised of that house but with different textures
It doesn't look like it, though they all do look pretty generic.

>> No.7375836

>>7375765
Beta Castle Town is easily the most enticing secret still left, I'd say. I really wonder how far they developed the map before giving up on it. I assume in child time it'd be a lot like TP's castle town where most NPCs can't really be interacted with, but moreso I wonder what it would be like in adult time filled with enemies.

>> No.7375839

>>7375836
I'd imagine it was scrapped before Child was put in.

>> No.7375862
File: 21 KB, 320x240, OoT-Early_Town.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7375862

>>7375836
It was probably a bunch of plain buildings, some shops, and a path to the castle. Looks better than the prerendered "town" we got, with a handful of buildings, some alleyways and all that, but it was probably too big and empty, like a lot of these early maps, so they reduced it to only what was needed.
I agree, though. It's the number one thing I'd like to see uncovered. We don't have many screenshots as it is.

>> No.7375871

>>7375765
>>7375862
The common theory for the number under shield on B is that it was the shield's health, right?

Interesting that they waited as long as SS to implement that. I wonder why they removed it from OOT, and how late into development it was when they did. Thinking about it, it's kind of weird for fire enemies against kokiri shield and likelikes against any shield to be the only ways you can lose them. Definitely easy to see how scraps of this idea made it into the final product.

>> No.7375886

>>7375871
Shield durability kind of sucks. If that is what the number was for, it's likely they removed it because it's a pain in the ass. Losing your shield in the final game sucks as it is. Just a boring inconvenience. Not sure why they ever thought to bring it back.
The first ALttP has a kind of primitive version of this system, doesn't it? IIRC, Like Likes can reduce your shield back to its weakest form, and you have to go and get the upgrade again.

>> No.7375891

>>7375871
Because equipment degradation is a pain in the ass at the best of times and the rudimentary system they would have had wouldn't have added to the experience, just caused unnecessary breaks in the action to go get it fixed or replaced after every dungeon.

>> No.7375906
File: 13 KB, 407x124, zelda.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7375906

>>7372142
I spent some time exploring the links that still work and saved some fanart.
(Link in pic 'cause 4chan thinks it's spam.)
Some of this stuff's pretty good.

>> No.7375928

>>7375886
>>7375891
It would have encouraged dodging instead of blocking, and made fights a little more punishing by not just letting you block EVERYTHING without punishment. Going to kakariko between dungeons isn’t much of a pain at all, it’s a hop away from temple of time and you have prelude of light right away. Nobody really has a shortage of rupees in oot either. I think it would’ve made the game better but I can see why people wouldnt like it.

>> No.7375936

>>7375928
>Nobody really has a shortage of rupees in oot either.
Yeah. And in the earlier builds the wallets were much bigger. I always felt like there weren't enough uses for rupees in OoT anyway

>> No.7375962
File: 60 KB, 313x237, river1.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7375962

I really like the more cartoony aesthetic of the older maps

>> No.7375971
File: 42 KB, 313x237, comfy.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7375971

>>7375962

>> No.7375974
File: 47 KB, 313x237, 3.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7375974

>>7375971

>> No.7375980
File: 63 KB, 313x237, river2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7375980

>>7375974

the emulator I use doesn't have an option to take 1x screenshots so I had to write a program to shrink these down, these would've been posted earlier otherwise

>> No.7375993

>>7375980
>>7375974
>>7375971
>>7375962
Agreed. Not sure if it's simpler because it was easier to draw and model, or if they wanted the game to be more cartoony in general. Ironically it seems that a lot of the level geometry, specifically in the field, was a lot more complex.

>> No.7375998

What cute thread, guys :3

>> No.7376023

>>7375928
>Going to kakariko between dungeons isn’t much of a pain at all
But it's still a pain, and adding something like that for very little benefit to the player isn't a good move. If they'd left it in you can bet your ass that people would be complaining about it more than anything else in the game, the relative emptiness of Hyrule Field would have nothing on the pace-killing requirement of fixing your shield every hour. I'm all for doing things to mix it up and challenge the player, but degradation is a shitty mechanic and it's a shame Nintendo forgot that.

>> No.7376126

>>7376023
>Hyrule Field would have nothing on the pace-killing requirement of fixing your shield every hour
I disagree, getting a new shield could easily be done one the way to every dungeon, put one for sale in the goron and zora shops and problem solved.

Kakariko and Gorons are on your way to Dodongo
Zora Shop is on your way to Jabu
Kakariko is on your way to Forest Temple cause of the hookshot
Kakariko and Gorons are on your way to Fire Temple
Zora’s Domain is in front of both Ice Cavern and Water Temple
Shadow/Well has Kakariko
The gerudos dont have a shop but by that point you’ll likely be able to warp to Kakariko anyway, plus in that dungeon you get (what I assume would be) an unbreakable shield.

It’s also not a given that shields would need to break THAT often, and all those complaints would be met with counters of ‘so fucking dodge then’. Shitters would still struggle against stalfos but at least they’d be dodging instead of holding R and mashing B. Might even be enough to encourage them to experiment and actually use all the shit that works, like deku nuts or the hammer. But maybe that’s giving them too much credit, and it would’ve been too much for casual novice players.

>I'm all for doing things to mix it up and challenge the player, but degradation is a shitty mechanic and it's a shame Nintendo forgot that.
In most cases I agree with this, but in this specific instance I disagree. I think combat would’ve been a lot more threatening and even thought provoking since players might think more about how to engage with each enemy, even just shit like deku babas. It would probably have made people use alternate tools like arrows or hookshot a lot more often, giving them more value.

I dont want to derail the thread too much with hypotheticals but I like thinking about the different roads this game could’ve gone down.

>> No.7376148

>>7376126
>I think combat would’ve been a lot more threatening and even thought provoking since players might think more about how to engage with each enemy, even just shit like deku babas. It would probably have made people use alternate tools like arrows or hookshot a lot more often, giving them more value.
They did that in BOTW 20 years later, and it was the single worst thing about the whole game. I'm of the mind that people will play the game they want to play it, and being that it's Nintendo and their primary audience is children, indestructible weapons and shields so they can brute force their way through the game is perfectly acceptable, and forcing players to experiment by putting some onerous mechanic in is probably the worst way to do it. Look at Okami, each weapon style had different properties and each weapon within each set was slightly different, not to mention their uses as subweapons.Even without the brush techniques, the items of the game, there's a lot of room for experimenting without having some bullshit healthbar for your stuff and eight year olds can still just mash square to victory.
This is all academical anyways, because it's impossible to discuss changes to OoT's combat without comparing it to games that it inspired and thus the comparisons are never fair.

>> No.7376276

>>7376148
>They did that in BOTW 20 years later, and it was the single worst thing about the whole game.
The major difference there being that degradation applies to basic weapon usage, and not just shields when you fail to dodge and need to resort to blocking.

The rest of your post I more or less agree with though.

>> No.7376324

>>7376276
If BOTW had a simple repair system and degretation rates that weren't nonsensical it would have been fine. I'm still pissed though about the nerfes weapon movesets

>> No.7376683
File: 3 KB, 101x251, z_ocarina-src.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7376683

>>7371482
If source filenames are to be believed, they were always the Light Arrows in Ocarina of Time. My guess is that the Silver Arrows are in same boat as the Magical Sword, and were replaced as series lore became fleshed out.

>> No.7376994

>>7375713
>im playing a 320x240 game on a 4K monitor why does it look so bad??

>> No.7377009

>>7375862
>>7375765
In the final OOT release was space still on issue? Is it likely 3D spaces became pre-renderered because of size or just because they were too big and empty like you said?

>> No.7377024

>>7377009
>In the final OOT release was space still on issue?
No, not really. It was released on a 32mb cart, but there's only around 20mb of data on there. It's a far cry away from the 64mb of space the highest capacity carts and 64DD disks provided.

>Is it likely 3D spaces became pre-renderered because of size or just because they were too big and empty like you said?
In regards to houses, on a CRT, they looked better because you could render a background and put some collision over it just like how FF7 did it. This made the interiors more detailed, not to save space. As for the Market, you can choose to believe whatever you want about that. I choose to believe it was just too big and cumbersome and tedious to navigate, not that it would have pushed the cart over it's 32mb limit.

>> No.7377046
File: 92 KB, 1280x720, 8A02EFE8-D8D5-406A-83D7-E0DFAA15F76B.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7377046

>>7375962
Yeah that’s not cartoony. This is cartoony.

>> No.7377159

>>7377046
>zelda 64 started off on a cartoony mario 64 engine
deepest lore

>> No.7377185
File: 86 KB, 750x740, cd5f49bfa8a0131a0f54fdeae46692b90c1c23909b2b3f050ae46be06a0b4cd4_1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7377185

>> No.7377209

>>7376324
Not retro so I won't derail the thread much but I have absolutely no idea why people complain about weapons degradation in BotW so much when the game drops shields, bows, swords, etc. like candy everywhere, I always had my inventory maxed out because every few steps there was a thing.

>> No.7377297

>in the old builds of the game the spiritual stones would lose their power and colour and the door of time would be locked shut
>the old deku tree dungeon has ledges that only adult Link can climb making a shortcut almost directly to the top of the spiral structure
Would it be possible that Link would have to do like a "master quest" version of the child dungeons as an adult to restore the spiritual stones?

>> No.7377312

>>7377297
>Would it be possible that Link would have to do like a "master quest" version of the child dungeons as an adult to restore the spiritual stones?
No, doing the first three temples would restore their respective stones and re-open the door of time, letting you time travel back to do child Spirit Temple and Bottom of the Well. They changed it to just beat the Forest Temple to travel backwards through time to open the game up a bit.

>> No.7377330

>>7377185
What's so unusual about it? They either sourced from the same stock/texture sources/CDs or internally shared their work.

>> No.7377573

Is there an archive that has all the beta screenshots collected?

>> No.7377867

>>7377573
https://tcrf.net/Prerelease:The_Legend_of_Zelda:_Ocarina_of_Time

>> No.7377902
File: 409 KB, 935x1085, file.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7377902

>>7377573
and if youre feeling nostalgic heres the old version of it all
https://web.archive.org/web/20050206025246fw_/http://zso.krahs-emag.com/beta/screenshots.html

>> No.7377932

>>7366798
If your saying to Farore Wind after shooting the eye to get closer to the gate, that doesn’t work. The warp point actually moves to the door in the middle pillar.

>> No.7377963

>>7377902
>>7377867
Thanks fellas

>> No.7378001

>>7362232
Sorry to be a bother and asking what's probably really obvious question, but is there anything that sums up all the findings so I don't have to sift through at least a dozen threads.
I plan to try out the beta map rom, but I'm not sure where to go from there for info.

>> No.7378012

>>7378001
It's right in the fucking OP
https://tcrf.net/Proto:The_Legend_of_Zelda:_Ocarina_of_Time/Late_1997_Overdump

>> No.7378039

>>7378012
That page literally says on the top that it's a "work in progress" and shit still isn't dumped. Only a few things are mentioned.

>> No.7378049

>>7378012
>>7378039
Wait, I was being extremely retarded not seeing the subpages, but there's still stuff missing, right?

>> No.7378063

>>7378049
>>7378039
It's the only place you're going to get a summary.
Twitter, forums, and these threads are still going through it, but it's incredibly fragmented.

>> No.7378072

A lot of this stuff likely hasn't even been updated for the gigaleak.

>> No.7378073

>>7378063
Oh well. appreciate the clarification at least

>> No.7378351

>>7378001
Check these posts, anon. Please forgive for the rude autist that replied to you earlier.
>>7370768
>>7370778

>> No.7378418

>>7378351
>>7370768
>Mostly everything is documented on OP but no one has updated the TCRF article in a while
So my only options are to go through those 5k posts or wait for the wiki to update?
I'll do it if that's the case, but fuck.
semi related, but for the rom, there are lots of places I can't get to without levitating and none of the codes I've tried work. Is that a mistake on my end or is it incompatible?

>> No.7378458

>>7378418
Fuck, I'm double retarded for not realizing I could change Link's position manually since it's debug.

>> No.7378464

>>7378418
The rom with the injected content is just the Debug rom, right? If so you should be able to just use the free movement abilities that are built in.

https://tcrf.net/Proto:The_Legend_of_Zelda:_Ocarina_of_Time_Master_Quest/General_Functions#Free_Movement_Mode

>> No.7378608

>>7378464
appreciate all the help
It's fucking astonishing just how huge all these maps are, not only compared to the final game, but every 3D Zelda. It's so easy to get lost in and seems so much more faithful to the size of something like Zelda 1 or LttP.

>> No.7378748
File: 39 KB, 313x237, nice_outofbounds_newerfield.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7378748

>> No.7379538
File: 2.28 MB, 2206x1486, 1582936766908.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7379538

>>7375962
I honestly wish they would've stuck with it instead of making what we got.

>> No.7379672
File: 55 KB, 313x237, lake2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7379672

>>7377046
More than this is

>> No.7379721

>>7377209
People don't want a system like a beatemup. Most players get attached to their loot, and a hyper unrealistic system if exploding weapons is just contrived. Other games where I pick up weapons all the time is Dark Souls or even Skyrim, and this have an infinitely better, and more logical weapon degretation system. BOTW does everything about it's weapons worse; you're expected to farm them, they have worse movesets than OOT or DaS, and Nintendo couldn't figure out how to make weapons situational (like they are in real life). They're just beat sticks.

>> No.7379749

>>7379721
This is why I play with the infinite durability mod. I sunk 100+ hours into the Wii U version when it leaked, then another 200+ on the Switch version when I finally got one. Shockingly, the only people that give me shit for it are people that have never actually played BotW before.

>> No.7379772

>>7379749
Haha, same dude. I've been playing it on PC with that stuff recently and it's been a lot of fun. I did play it legit on Switch on Master mode first though. . .I just happened to lose my save file. It"s funny how durability only makes the gameplay worse. I'm still swapping weapons all the time with what I find on the field. The idea that they need to break in order to be an incentive to change weapons is ridiculous.

>> No.7379787

>>7377209
Because it's irritating, unnecessary, and the average gamer's hoarding mentality means you're using whatever's shittiest or most common unless you absolutely have to. Not only that, they're so brittle that combat is a chore with no benefit unless you're material farming.

>> No.7379829

>>7379787
This. Even Zelda 2 got this right, as EXP was always an incentive for combat. BOTW it's always better to stealth around. Also, FUCK. The concept of farming coming to Zelda. Holy shit, the audacity to include such a tedious RPG bullshit is disgusting.

>> No.7379843

>>7379787
>>7379829
>Not swimming in weapons
>Not using the near damaged weapon for that critical damage
Wack

>> No.7379862

I've been going through the threads in the OP and pretty much all of what's there is covered on the wiki or the rom so far. Is that all there is, or is there more that hasn't been put up elsewhere?

>> No.7379938

>>7379843
I didn't say a word about scarcity, I said it was an irritating hassle that the game would have been better without.

>> No.7379942

>>7379862
Other than >>7378351 doesn't seem like it. People are working into restoring these maps fully and make them playable with the actors known.

>> No.7379971

>>7379942
Cool, thanks. I was starting to lose it after 5 or so.
>People are working into restoring these maps fully and make them playable with the actors known.
Fuck, that's exactly what I was hoping for, but I thought it was asking for too much.

>> No.7380007

>>7379971
Some of the progress done, from the OP:
https://twitter.com/Zen64_/status/1352433376393834498

>> No.7380568

>>7377902
Zelda's Secret Fucking Ocarina, man now THAT'S major nostalgia for us nerds back in 2005.

>> No.7380809

>>7379538
You mean the art direction? Because the beta Zora's River is kinda simplistic

>> No.7380902
File: 1.21 MB, 2199x1477, 1590479679585.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7380902

>>7380809
The actual map is extremely simple, but this art direction is much nicer to look at and get immersed in on top of the scale.
That said, there are surprisingly lots of complex maps like the Water Temple and the second cave. They seem much more reflective of LttP in both format and difficulty to the point that I'm bummed out by the babbyshit we ended up getting.

>> No.7381757
File: 122 KB, 1104x982, earlyfields.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7381757

I finally managed to get a model of the older field
and I found out that its model origin is *not* inside the town like the newer fields are.

>> No.7381761
File: 72 KB, 1912x982, shifted.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7381761

>>7381757
By manually lining up the models (with the gate as reference) we can see some interesting differences

>> No.7381767
File: 99 KB, 1912x982, gate2.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7381767

>>7381761
They also tweaked the gate model a little bit, which might give up a extremely accurate way to identify a few screenshot locations.

>> No.7382361

The beta Castle Town walls look so off and weird, like the SNES castle made into 3D, which looks off given they possibly had never seen castles in real life until they decided to scrap this field and began referencing german medieval castles.

>> No.7383120

>>7377209
because people don't want to think, it's why games with dehydration or stuff like that are either seen as "difficult" or have this kind of stuff for their "hard mode". People just want to press a button to shoot things, they don't want to manage their character.

>> No.7383176
File: 1.55 MB, 502x1536, Kinoko-TEST_scr_1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7383176

i like how the field progressed the same way mario worlds did. start with a point of interest in the center>move it to the side and add more around it>deleting it entirely for a new idea.

>> No.7383215

So what exactly are they basing the actors on to make the maps more playable? Are they just going to port stuff from the final game based on addresses or were they able to recover actors as well to input?

>> No.7383258

>>7383120
I think the best compromise I could think of for BotW2 is, if you don't toss your weapon, it stays broken and useless taking a space on the inventory until you get to a village with a blacksmith, and then have him fix your shit for a pretty penny.
Bam, further rupee use and making use of the broken weapon system, /vr/.

>>7383215
Some actors were identified to being in the final game, just with their ID changed -1, while other actors can't be restored because they're completely unknown, as they had been over-written by F-Zero and don't exist in the final game.

>> No.7383265

Any pics of Lost Woods with some of the tree actors restored? Can it even run properly?

>> No.7383276

>>7383258
Is it either or, or are there any old actors left in tact?

>> No.7383278
File: 1.63 MB, 600x448, 1596234310225.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7383278

>>7383265
If you mean the older Lost Woods map found, we don't know yet. We only know DrDisco and Zen64 were working on it.
If you mean what we thought was Lost Woods for 2 decades, it turns out it was Hyrule Field. If you play the map on Dr. Disco's patched ROM you can see it had a shit-tastic Draw Distance and the pink fog was most likely to hide it.
I dread to know how bad the game ran with all those tree actors and objects loaded.

>> No.7383282

>>7383276
Absolutely all actors, old and new, as well as sound effects and music was overwritten by F-Zero.
Our only hope is that Forest of Ilusion crew have the cartridge do a flash memory recovery, which is both expensive and who knows how much we'll get back.

>> No.7383293
File: 2.02 MB, 2202x1489, 1604030946093.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7383293

>>7383282
Well shit. At least there's some hope though, so I'm satisfied for now. I'd love to try the Water Temple and Lake Hylia if they're recovered.

>> No.7383301

>>7383293
In the meantime, Zen64 is apparently trying to do a restoration based on what string calls, dialogue and context left there is. So it's the best aproximation we'll get.

>> No.7383425
File: 27 KB, 512x512, kinoko_scr_1.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7383425

>>7383176
Also

>> No.7383458

>>7383176
Can you elaborate? I can’t really see what you mean between the second and third pic.

>> No.7383483

>>7372890
It's like I'm really browsing in 1999. Where the midis at?

>> No.7383527

>>7383458
First image: Start with a point of interest in the center
Second image: Move it to the side and add more around it
Third image: Deleting it entirely for a new idea

>> No.7383537

>>7383483
https://vgmusic.com

>> No.7383560

>>7377209
Honestly the only problem I have with it is that stuff degrades a bit too quickly. Especially early on in master mode. Burning half your inventory on a single mob is not fun.

>> No.7383596

>>7383483
>>7383537
https://www.vgmusic.com/music/console/nintendo/snes/snow_journey.mid

>> No.7384004

Unused cutscene where the Stones would lose their sheen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSFYGGg04cc

>> No.7384093

>>7384004
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-SSXyZPGks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LOvNV45PsU

>> No.7384269

https://twitter.com/MrCheeze_/status/1357856680650952712
Normal jump restored.
I dislike how he opted to mod the front flip slash to combo with it instead of the normal one though.

>> No.7384273

>>7384269
>I dislike how he opted to mod the front flip slash to combo with it instead of the normal one though.
That was the jumpslash during this point in time, so it's accurate.

>> No.7384349

>>7384273
>That was the jumpslash during this point in time
How do you know that?

>> No.7384357

>>7384349
Not him but there's footage that said fancy jump attack animation existed during the A+B 1996 period and it seems it lasted for the entirety of 1997. I'm throwing a guess, but it was probably removed during the final 1998 delay (delayed from spring to fall) when the Ocarina non-warp songs, Bombchu were added, and the elemental arrows of Spirit, Wind and Dark were removed (as well as their Spell counterparts).

>> No.7384363

>>7384357
There's also footage of a normal jump slash combo.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y41A7mzAQ-4&t=2m51s

>> No.7384409

>>7384363
And this footage also shows a white light medallion, the temple of time has green doors and an inverted triforce and Link is seen using the reed, so it must have been a real close build to the one we recently got.

>> No.7385425

>>7384093
Too bad we don't have the depowered spiritual stones or the full dialogue there.

>> No.7385664

>>7384269
Holy shit this looks fun to use

>> No.7385721

>>7385664
to think it took until skyward sword and breath of the wild to be used

>> No.7386154

>>7384409
I wonder if the changelogs say anything about this

>> No.7386578

>>7374645
fuckin wild
full texture list: https://github.com/Render96/Render96Wiki/wiki/The-Legend-of-Zelda%3A-Ocarina-of-Time

didn't know these were things

>> No.7386923

>>7386578
I had no idea, I thought they had made their own textures

>> No.7387569

>>7386154
Do we even have changelogs?

>> No.7388290

>>7386578
Reminds me of the discovery that a bunch of the dungeon sound tracks use samples from that ambient noise album Nintendo bought the rights for.

>> No.7388308

>>7388290
I've seen people on /vr/ shit on Kondo for the use of samples, however he's far from the only video game composser using samples on his compositions that are still midi-reliant.

>> No.7388963
File: 2.43 MB, 1539x1102, 7c832818e408855651ed1cd707957da36a11481e.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7388963

Anyone know, based on ID lists, which was the first boss programmed into the game? Dodongo's Cavern was the first dungeon (other than fstdan) to be worked into the game, but Gohma was the first boss we saw, so I kept wondering about that.

>> No.7389025

>>7388963
https://wiki.cloudmodding.com/oot/Actor_List_(Variables)
ID: 0027
King Dodongo is the first boss.
Followed very closely by Gohma.

>> No.7389030

>>7389025
Sweet, I wonder why they decided to show Gohma first, before child Link existed (i.e. when there was only adult Link and he'd get the Bow to fight of Gohma inside the "Fairy Tree") and didn't show Dodongo until after child Link was a thing?

Also, maybe Dodongo was the first boss when they made that dungeon we still don't have? the one that's supposed to be a 3D version of Level 1 Eagle Labyrinth.

>> No.7389079

>>7389030
Probably because he's the best boss to present to the press.
King Dodongo is a really simple boss. Gohma was a huge show off.
You got real time lighting in it.
Huge arena.
Complex animations.
And a really cool opening cutscene.

Gohma shows off all the graphical achievements OoT had. Makes sense to make him the posterboy.

>> No.7389087

>>7389079
Yeah, that really makes sense. Gohma's eye even does that color shifting thing and all.

>> No.7389827

>>7384269
They took this from us

>> No.7390309
File: 17 KB, 320x237, 32.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7390309

>>7389030
who says this isnt the dodongo king

>> No.7390446

>>7390309
The size and ww see Link pass over other two. The animation seemed non existent with fire suddenly coming oit lf them.

>> No.7390657

>>7390446
did you have a stroke?

>> No.7390712

>>7388290
that was neat. got to hear the islam chants

>> No.7391059

>>7390657
I had literally just awakened. I meant to say that's not King Dodongo because we have the footage of Link passing by those Dodongos, but they don't interact with it, it's just walking around and doesn't have a proper fire breathing animation, instead fire simply popped out in front of them dodongos

>> No.7391139

>>7363185
It's interesting how there are crosses on the tombstones. The Zelda series had some Christian imagery in the early games, until OoT where they introduced this Hylian religion based around the worship of those three goddesses. So maybe this was made before that concept came around.

>> No.7391314

>>7375754
>Still have my N64 from back then in working condition, but it's the shitty PAL one.
The NTSC/PAL-switch is fully in software on the N64, if you run software that is supposed to be in NTSC it will run in NTSC mode.

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