/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.7321342]

Is this really the best Castlevania game?

[Anonymous No.7321365]

Yes

[Anonymous No.7321456]

More options.

[Anonymous No.7322754]

>>7321342
I prefer 1. It’s the most no-nonsense NES Castlevania, as pure as it gets.

[Anonymous No.7322860]

>>7322754
This. The new ones are all the same anime metroid knock offs. Too easy with too much dialogue.

[Anonymous No.7322869]

>>7322860
Those are the new ones, Dracula's Curse is one of the OG. I prefer it to one personally just because the music and characters are more fun. They're both still pretty good through

[Anonymous No.7322886]

I played almost all of the classicvanias and yeah, this one's the best

[Anonymous No.7322950]

I like how optional the other characters are. You're free to ignore them and just stick with the Belmont style the entire way through and the game doesn't feel lesser for it.

[Anonymous No.7322983]

>>7321342
Not even close. Wrong system too. Hint: it was on a console named after a book of the Bible.

[Anonymous No.7323352]

>>7321342
>mostly mediocre level design
>levels are uneven in length so some are too long while others are too short
>shitton of stairs
>rehashed bosses
No, and everyone telling you otherwise is borderline retarded or a blinded nostalgiafaggot. The best Castlevania is either 1 or Rondo.

[Anonymous No.7323367]

>>7323352
>Dismissing CVIII's level design as mediocre while praising Rondo
No.

[Anonymous No.7323372]

>>7323367
The level design in Rondo is still much better than the one in 3.

[Anonymous No.7323386]

>>7323372
If you like uneventful hallways. I wouldn't call Rondo's level design bad, but it's one of the weakest Classicvanias on that front.

[Anonymous No.7323394]

>>7323367
>>7323372
I enjoy both, but for different reasons. Rondo isn't very hard and is just pure, nearly mindless fun. CVIII is extremely hardcore and I play that when I'm in the mood for some pain. They're both good, why can't people like both?

[Anonymous No.7323591]

>>7321342
Easily the best IMO

[Anonymous No.7323674]

Are all of the GBA games worth playing or only Aria?
Are the PS2 ones worth playing?

[Anonymous No.7323904]

>>7321342
In my humble opinion, yes it is

[Anonymous No.7323910]

>>7323674
All of the GBA ones are worth playing. Pic related is arguably better than Aria of Sorrow.

Play the 3DS games too.

[Anonymous No.7323916]

>>7322983
I love the holy fury and thoughful ethical symbolism featured in the Book of Mega Drive

[Anonymous No.7323920]

>>7321342
It is to me. Why dont you play it?

[Anonymous No.7323923]

>>7321342
The best linear one probably. The exploration ones are genuinely better overall though

[Anonymous No.7323984]

>>7323352
zoom zoom

[Anonymous No.7323993]

>>7323984

[Anonymous No.7323996]

>>7322860
But 1 is easier than 3.

[Anonymous No.7324007]

>>7323993

[Anonymous No.7324038]

>>7323910
>3DS games
plural?
I only see Lords of Shadow Mirror of Fate

[Anonymous No.7324073]

>>7324038
Never mind, you probably meant 3 (space) DS games.
Should I use the portrait patch for those btw?

[Anonymous No.7324690]

>>7323394
Because it seems half the time, Rondo fans tend to be insufferable fanboys, and fanboyism for various games in the series is probably the biggest reason why the CV fandom in general is so on edge and at each others' throats over what games they like and dislike. I unironically sometimes wonder if it's why the franchise is dead/in hibernation.

>Rondo isn't very hard and is just pure, nearly mindless fun
Honestly this is part of why I don't really like it as much as the next guy. I even think it's precisely because the level design doesn't serve the enemy design well like other games that it ends up stale and easy, with Dracula X being probably a decent direct comparison even if it's basically a different game. I still respect RoB, though, because a lot of games that I like from the N64vanias to many of the portable vanias probably wouldn't be the same without its influence on game design and aesthetics. Boss fights are possibly the most fun of the older games, though I haven't finished Bloodlines yet, and they don't have Chronicle's bite.

>>7323352
The only ones I'll give you are maybe one or two levels being too long and the so many stairs. 3's level design is great with a lot of variation in structure and how they use certain mechanics, and the evil spirit boss reanimating an earlier boss and some reskinned CV1 references is kino if anything. Rondo might be better at certain things than 3 or even any other CV, but level design is not one of them.

[Anonymous No.7324738]

>>7323910
I like the Lords of Shadow games, but Mirror of fate is honestly rather mediocre even to me outside of Boss Rush and the gothic aesthetic. It's not super bad or anything, I just don't think it the player character handling doesn't work well for the classicvania stuff it tries to do and the metroidvania elements might as well not exist.

[Anonymous No.7324815]

Alucard's path is full of tedious gimmick crap, if that was your main experience with it I can understand that opinion.

[Anonymous No.7324839]

>>7323674
>Are all of the GBA games worth playing
Yes.
>Are the PS2 ones worth playing?
No.

[Anonymous No.7325018]

>>7323674
>PS2 ones
Most will probably tell you no, and not without good reason either. On the one hand, they look good and sound great, the combat system is nice what with the emphasis on a main weapon mixed with things that consume MP or hearts, neither of which can really be abused all that hard so you do in fact have to have a modicum of skill, even the rpg aspects jive well. In fact, the DS games arguably build off of what the PS2 games did in regards to balance and difficulty, so yeah, there is that. It's just that where the 2D games can maybe get away with stale and repetitive level design, that ends up being so awful in 3D that it drags down everything else, and is the biggest reason for why they get so much flak in the first place.

[Anonymous No.7325102]

>>7325018
>they look good
Only kind of. Many of the character models look pretty rough. I don't care that much for Ayami Kojima's character designs in general, but Leon in particular is a major victim of a terrible model regardless of his design on paper.

And the PS2 games aren't merely on the same level of repetition as the 2D Metroidvanias exacerbated by 3D. They're on another plane of tedium altogether and have shit level design by any standard. The PS2 games are just woefully mediocre at just about everything they do. I don't think they're outright abominations, but it's not as if the PS2 was hurting for 3D action-adventure games and they were blown out by the competition.

[Anonymous No.7325220]

>>7325102
I just wish they based his ingame model on his knight outfit from the intro, or at least made something like it. There's absolutely no reason for the red/white longcoat travesty we ended up with.

[Anonymous No.7325446]

>>7325102
>it's not as if the PS2 was hurting for 3D action-adventure games
Got any suggestions besides DMC? Outside of Castlevania, I typically stayed in my Nintendo bubble.

[Anonymous No.7325462]

>>7324038
>>7324738
Oh yeah sorry the 3DS games are shit. I meant the DS games.

[Anonymous No.7325468]

>>7321342
Rondo of Blood is.

[Anonymous No.7325478]

>>7325446
The Sands of Time trilogy (or at least SoT and WW; never played TT)
The Onimusha series
Both Maximo games
Shinobi
Both God of War games
Beyond Good and Evil

I'd even put Rygar squarely ahead of the PS2 Castlevania games overall. I'm sure there are others I'm forgetting, and there are even a handful of PSX games I could throw in for good measure.

[Anonymous No.7325483]

Somewhat unrelated but I fell for the AVGN meme and never gave Simon's Quest a chance. I recently tried it, and while being far from my favorite, it's a really good game.

[Anonymous No.7325532]

>>7325478
Unironically thanks anon.

I actually have the first SoT game on hand for like a year or something and have done jack shit with it, so maybe I ought to finally actually play the fucking thing.

[Anonymous No.7325541]

>>7324815
That was my main experience and really liked it.

[Anonymous No.7325564]

>>7325532
jedi outcast has a lot of vestigial fps bullshit attached in the first few hours, but once you get into the meat of the game with a lightsaber it becomes a sublime character action game.

[Anonymous No.7325595]

>>7324815
>magazines used to hype Alucard as the most powerful character in the game
>everyone wanted to play as Dracula's son
>main attack is shooting 3 weak testicles, which need to be upgraded
>bat form is rarely useful and drains hearts, I'd rather use Grant
>sprite is taller for some reason, so bigger hitbox
>stage 7's theme fits better with the ghost ship, was it just recycled?
>stage 7 is a glorified Simon Says
>not even on the US/international box art
>Sypha's ending is better (but they were retconned anyway)

[Anonymous No.7325604]

>>7324038
>>7323910
>Play the 3 DS games too.
Dawn of Sorrow: yes, absolutely. improves on Aria in many ways (loses in some but still very well worth it)
Portrait of Ruin: so-so. pretty boring level design, garbage look. barely finished it. all of the GBA ones were better. and if you like classic castlevania, this one is worse than all of them.
Ecclesia: fuck no. this is where it all went to shit.

[Anonymous No.7325612]

>>7325604
Ecclesia is fucking great what is wrong with you? I would even say Ecclesia is the best DS game.

[Anonymous No.7325618]

>>7325612
jesus fucking christ you have weird taste

[Anonymous No.7325634]

>>7325483
>AVGN meme
I wouldn't say it's just an AVGN meme. I think Simon's Quest is a genuinely botched mess.

[Anonymous No.7325640]

An action/platformer game from 80 years ago has more branching paths and endings than a big budget modern Role-playing game. How is that possible?

[Anonymous No.7325726]

>>7321342
It's very good, arguably the best on the NES, but I like Rondo and Bloodlines better as far as linear Castlemanias go.

Also, the japanese version is better than the american one.

[Anonymous No.7325742]

>>7325595
Bat form can be very useful, IDK what you are talking about.

[Anonymous No.7325745]

>>7325595
Wait, are we talking about Prince of Persia or Star Wars? I honestly thought we we're talking PoP and that "SoT" meant Sands of Time. What were you actually talking about?

[Anonymous No.7325748]

>>7325640
Because its clear they stopped trying nowadays

[Anonymous No.7325752]

>>7325745
Goddamnit, I meant to reply to >>7325564

>>7325595
Also, bat form is great, you can interrupt falls when hit and can even use the transitions to avoid attacks if you time it right.

[Anonymous No.7325773]

>>7325745
He isn't me. Outcast and Academy are both decent too, but I wouldn't call them anything close to "sublime." I'd recommend Dark Forces II over them if we're going down that road.

[Anonymous No.7325776]

>>7325618
Different anon, you have shit opinions. PoR may have some flat level design, but it also has a lot of platforming traps to look out for, and the level designs actually compliment the enemies better than probably any of the GBA games and SoTN. It also actually has decent balance and difficulty so even the rpg mechanics beyond leveling up matter, without taking the onus off the player to actually play well. OoE does much of the same but arguably better, with the tradeoff that one might prefer how PoR handles branching paths and hidden pickups over it.

[Anonymous No.7325785]

>>7325773
I thought about that but I wasn't sure. What system are we talking here, cuz it's right out if it's PC, my laptop probably can't handle shit.

[Anonymous No.7325798]

>>7325785
There are console ports, but the PC is the best way to play them. They're old games that were relatively well-optimized, so you could probably run them better than you might think. There's no way you're unable to run DFII, though you'll need to apply some patches to get there.

[Anonymous No.7326141]

>>7325776
>PoR may have some flat level design, but it also has a lot of platforming traps to look out for, and the level designs actually compliment the enemies better than probably any of the GBA games and SoTN
I dont know really, i forget if i beat it, but to me it seemed pretty tedious. the levels started to look ugly with DoS, in PoR they kept getting uglier, the same goes for the enemies. i've seen people praise the game, i never got the hype.
comparing it to AoS is missing the point, AoS/DoS had souls which made up for basic levels and added tons of options to explore for combat, and all the secrets/added collectathon elements made beating it much more interesting. and if i wanted the best platforming, i'd just go straight to classicvanias. double jump destroys most platforming anyway.
I wont defend SotN, but it definitely looked way prettier and had more soul, imo. i still think its a bit overrated though
>OoE does much of the same but arguably better
I dont know about that at all. even more tedious to me than PoR. looked extremely bland too. the only castlevania i didnt bother with finishing, to me it felt extremely tired and lazily made.
(sorry if these sound vague, i last played PoR and OoE on release so a good 12–14 years ago)

[Anonymous No.7326229]

>>7325773
>I'd recommend Dark Forces II over them if we're going down that road.
dark forces 2 is a more competent shooter but the lightsaber combat is nowhere close, it's a legitimately outstanding system in outcast and academy if you can get through the rougher portions of outcast.

[Anonymous No.7326245]

>>7326229
>legitimately outstanding system
I think the controls are unwieldy and the vast majority of options aren't even that relevant, even during boss fights with larger health pools. Even PVP tends to be about goofy exploits as much as any depth in the move set. It's still better than DF2's, but DF2's level design rarely felt as annoying as the Raven games sometimes do, and the weapons being fun to use means the player has a bigger, more applicable toolkit for the entire game and also means the early hour or so of it isn't a slog. DF2's bosses suck, though.

[Anonymous No.7326295]

>>7326141
>if i wanted the best platforming, i'd just go straight to classicvanias
>i last played PoR and OoE on release so a good 12–14 years ago

I won't bullshit you, anon, if it weren't for those sentences, this whole post would have read like you were just hating on the games for dumb shit like aesthetic and/or just hating on them for literally no good reason.
>comparing it to AoS is missing the point, AoS/DoS had souls
I'd say it's entirely the point, AoS might not be the first in the series to have item drops related to the enemies they come from, but it did tighten it down so that nearly every drop was such. PoR and OoE may not have souls, but they still do this with all kinds of different item drops from weapons & armor to consumables, even. Despite paring things down, OoE actually highly differentiates weaponry and equipment allowing for different styles of play, and PoR has so much to collect from weapons of varying strength, subs, and armor that it's my go-to game for when I want to roleplay in a "let's only use such and such stuff since that's what such and such character would have" kind of way.

As for platforming, it's less about it being so fantastic in and of itself and more about it not just being hallways, and like I said, unlike many of the other metroidvanias, there's some synergy between how enemies function and how the level structures help serve to make things harder for you, like the older games. I don't think I really got that point across well the first time, my apologies. It's part of what makes the collectibles and exploration more rewarding and enjoyable since there's more of a point to it, especially on harder difficulties.

If you seriously haven't played PoR and OoE since release, I'd highly recommend returning to them. I actually used to hate AoS until years after I first played it and found a way to play it that really brings out the fun for me, and I'd imagine you'd find the same by this point.

[Anonymous No.7326471]

>>7326295
ok i see your point, i wasn't aware the game had this layer to it. that said, to me atmosphere, graphics and music have always mattered a whole lot in Castlevania, and in general, I feel this took a huge hit in later games. I could look past it in in DoS, i couldnt in PoR.
the style of gameplay you described is also not my favorite, I either prefer metroid-esque gameplay with full-on collectathon (and even grinding items), or just pure action like Rondo/1.
so in the end it sounds good, just not the kind of game i care about, really, althout it would maybe be interesting to try one day. thanks for the detailed answer though, it's a rarity on this shit of a website.

[Anonymous No.7326526]

>>7326471
>I either prefer metroid-esque gameplay with full-on collectathon (and even grinding items), or just pure action like Rondo/1
I see what you mean, really. I want to say that PoR and OoE are action-oriented and are a blast in that regard, but when you only want one or the other, I can see how having all these mechanics going at once can be more a bother than a blessing.

If it means anything, though, PoR does have a Richter Mode a lot like Julius Mode, and there's even a hard mode with a level cap between 1 and 50. Since you normally have to beat the game to do any of that, you probably could find save files online or whatever for emulation have at it from there, but eh.

[Anonymous No.7326534]

1 is best. Just like SMB1, they got it right first time, and then every subsequent "improvement" made it worse.

[Anonymous No.7326697]

>>7326245
>I think the controls are unwieldy
Part of the balance is indeed that the wide horizontal swings are somewhat unintuitively tied to side and diagonal movement but the quick turning a mouse gives you makes up for it if you play on pc.
>and the vast majority of options aren't even that relevant, even during boss fights with larger health pools
To an extent that's unavoidable in a game where you can save scum and even the last boss can be killed in 3 or 4 solid hits. but there's a little there. The heavy stance is good for wearing down tough jedi and allows you to carry swings from range, the medium is an all rounder to mow down troopers and deal with low level saber wielders, and the light has smaller, quicker swings to limit the time you're exposed to blaster fire.

[Anonymous No.7326705]

>>7321342
The Japanese version MIGHT be.

[Anonymous No.7326718]

>>7325595
grant also shoot a fucking projectile for free if you play the weeb version

[Anonymous No.7326840]

>>7325595
He's the most powerful lore-wise :^)

[Anonymous No.7327859]

>>7321342
This game and Castlevania II should have gotten remakes like the 1st game.

[Anonymous No.7328115]

>>7321342
No, DX is.

CV3 is still great though

[Anonymous No.7328186]

>>7321342
Maria (Rondo Of Blood) > Maria (SOTN) > Maria SOTN DX > Maria (Portrait)> Richter (SOTN) > Richter (Portrait) > Albus > Maxim > Lament Of Innocence > Protagonists (Cheat Engine) >>>>> Cancer in the anus >>>>>>> Classicvania

[Anonymous No.7328356]

>>7327859
Yeah, that'd be fun. It'd be great to see other teams take their own shot at II and III's concepts. II especially would benefit from a remake, I think.

[Anonymous No.7329073]

[Anonymous No.7329714]

>>7323910
This is my favorite GBA Castlevania.

[Anonymous No.7329796]

>>7328115
>DX
Is it undeservedly hated?

[Anonymous No.7329809]

>>7329796
Yes, the game suffers from meme'd opinion like Final Fantasy 8 for instance

[Anonymous No.7329914]

>>7329809
exploits and a gaudy washed out background, is this supposed to help your argument?

[Anonymous No.7329919]

>>7329914
Yes, have a glitched cutscene

[Anonymous No.7329926]

>>7329919
and more exploits and gaudy backgrounds

[Anonymous No.7330181]

>>7328356
I wish we'd get more remakes of games like CV2 or Zelda 2 that were overambitious and failed to live up to their potential the first time around rather than more remakes of the same games that were already perfect.

[Anonymous No.7330329]

>>7321342
It is the best sequel. I would hesitate to put it ahead of the original.

[Anonymous No.7332308]

>>7325462
Those ain’t shit. Fix your eye

[Anonymous No.7332312]

>>7328186
Classicvania all the way, RPG noob.

[Anonymous No.7333028]

>>7328186
Easy > hard, huh?

[Anonymous No.7333131]

>>7333028
>convoluted
>hard

[Anonymous No.7333137]

>>7321342
Classic style probably. Bloodlines is really fun too. Out of the Igavanias honestly I like Circle of the Moon quite a bit because it retains the stiffer feel in jumps and is harder than all the other metroidvania style ones.

[Anonymous No.7333145]

>>7323910
This guy gets it. Circle of the Moon is the best of the metroidvania Castlevanias. Portrait of Ruin was better than Aria and Dawn also.

[Anonymous No.7333150]

>>7324839
I replayed Lament of Innocent last year. It actually holds up pretty well.

[Anonymous No.7333423]

Is it possible to have a civilised Castlevania thread?

[Anonymous No.7333795]

>>7333150
It might hold up, but it was never very good to begin with.

[Anonymous No.7335309]

CV3's level design seems noticeably worse than CV1 in places
>enemy appears instantly and hits you immediately
>many enemies suddenly appear, putting you in a lose-lose situation before you have time to react
>wait 10 minutes for falling blocks at the beginning of the level
>chaotic enemies that knock you into pits at the end of a long level
>swap to another character and cheese past most platforming challenges
Still a great game and a favorite. Maybe I just like CV1 better because I'm a baby.

[Anonymous No.7335374]

>>7322754
same desu
>>7322860
3 is like 1 but more

[Anonymous No.7335378]

>>7323916
This should not have made me laugh so fucking much

[Anonymous No.7335495]

>>7324007
Earthbound is the one SNES game that's better off played pixelated in 8:7 instead of filtered in 4:3.

[Anonymous No.7335514]

>>7329926
I love this stage, elegant combination of level hazard and enemy placements. DX has more in common with NES 1 and 3 than pretty much any other game that came after those.

>>7335309
You ever notice how CV3 is pretty easy up until you have the chance to see every character then suddenly stomps your nuts RIGHT after? Convinced it was on purpose to combat rental stores. Pretty ingenuous way to do it, though. "Yeah, you like all this cool new stuff? Oh, you want to BEAT it? That'll be 60 dollars."

[Anonymous No.7335542]

>>7333423
It's not possible to have a civilised thread of any kind.

[Anonymous No.7335645]

>>7335514
>You ever notice how CV3 is pretty easy up until you have the chance to see every character then suddenly stomps your nuts RIGHT after? Convinced it was on purpose to combat rental stores. Pretty ingenuous way to do it, though. "Yeah, you like all this cool new stuff? Oh, you want to BEAT it? That'll be 60 dollars."
Pretty based if you ask me. I beat it in 15 hours though so...

[Anonymous No.7335967]

>>7333423
Not out of the question, there was a thread from I think months ago were it was notable how comfy it was.

Notable, because no, you will almost never ever get a civilized Castlevania thread.

[Anonymous No.7336989]

>>7335514
>DX has more in common with NES 1 and 3 than pretty much any other game that came after those.

Yep, I'd say DX is definitely the sequel closest to 1

Remember when the Rosary for a thing?

[Anonymous No.7337005]

>>7335309
>>swap to another character and cheese past most platforming challenges

you can also cheese past most of those annoying enemy placements (only giant stairs excluded) with said characters, especially with Sypha

CV3 is pretty much
>really challenging with Belmont
>cheese with other characters

This got me thinking, does Belmont have more merit because "he has to work twice as hard as the others ?", or is that only what you say to retards who struggle at school?

[Anonymous No.7337031]

>>7337005
I doubt they put that kind of thought into it. To be honest I think Trevor is more useful than Alucard, but I'm guessing they didn't put as much thought into balancing and just wanted to use the same style of play the original game had. I think this works in the game's favor, though.

[Anonymous No.7337262]

>>7337005
All the levels are primarily designed for Trevor. He's the character you start with, and the one you're guaranteed to always have with you. Each character has strengths and weaknesses, and I don't think Trevor is the weakest. He might not be able to fly over levels or use Sypha's powerful spells, but his whip is great.
There is merit in actually engaging with the level instead of skipping it through trickery, whether you're playing Trevor or another character. With skips, just like flying over a level with a P-Wing, you miss out on what the designers were trying to say, and potentially make the game less enjoyable for yourself.
Cheese can both add to and subtract from the game. It's fun to have agency over which parts of the game you have to play, and to discover and use creative skips. But, if you just skip most of the game, you never experience the ideas in those skipped segments, and the game can feel meaningless.

[Anonymous No.7337287]

>kind of thought it was lame you had to pick paths each run
>found a romhack that just sequences all stages so you can do the whole thing in one go

Now obviously that messes with the intended pacing a bit, but fuck some of these levels are total slogs. Especially just about everything on alucard's path. Just way too long and slow and frustrating. And not in the good deliberate classicvania way, but the bad oh fuck these melting blocks that take a million years way

[Anonymous No.7337343]

>>7321342
1 with 3's music.
What with the additional sound channel(s?)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqyoTvZ5cOE&t

[Anonymous No.7337493]

>>7337343
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGO8GGlufQA

[Anonymous No.7337856]

Castlevania 1 whip only, no-death run would be my pick. Boss fights are crazy this way.

Castlevania 1 would still be my pick if played normally.

[Anonymous No.7338219]

>>7337343
>>7337493
Listening Dance of the Holy Man

[Anonymous No.7338624]

>>7321342
Who the fuck said it was the best?

[Anonymous No.7340331]

>>7338624
I did

[Anonymous No.7341091]

>>7321342
IV is the best

[Anonymous No.7341161]

>>7322983
Bloodlines is a fake Castlevania game

[Anonymous No.7341275]

>>7341161
your mom's orgasms aren't fake