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/vr/ - Retro Games

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7310770 No.7310770 [Reply] [Original]

The eternal debate

>> No.7310775

>>7310770
All suck.

>> No.7310779

>>7310775
fpbp

>> No.7310781

>>7310770
Gameplay: Thief 2
Atmosphere: Thief 2
Story: Deus Ex
World: Deus Ex

I would consider system shock 2 a close runner up in all areas here

>> No.7310784

If those three games could be mixed

>> No.7310792

>>7310781
>story: deus ex
>world: deus ex
thurd post worst post

>> No.7310794

>>7310792
Thief 2 isn't good in either area, and SS2 fails to utilize its interesting parts fully, so yah.

>> No.7310813

>>7310784
Deus Ex is a mix of the other two.

>> No.7310830

>>7310781
this. but i'd say thief 2 probably has the best world. for consistency. desu ex doesn't so much have a great world as it hits on several different STILL RELEVANT subjects in one go. definitely a game world that could be fleshed out, but to be fair they

i might also argue system shock 2 has better gameplay, although it gets too deep into D&D style character rolling for my taste.

>> No.7310834

*to be fair they didn't have a GTA4 budget

>> No.7310835

>>7310794
Deus Ex wasn't even trying though. It was a poorly derivative garbage with a joke writing.

>> No.7310849

Thief 2 is the most rounded. Does what it sets out to do well. Other 2 are ambitious but clunky

>> No.7310857

>>7310770
Deus Ex sucked balls through a paper straw.

>> No.7310879

>>7310770
They're all good. SS1 is better than SS2, though.

>> No.7310883

>>7310879
>SS1 is better than SS2
lol

>> No.7310891

>>7310770
Never much cared for Thief, but also played it last. Each and every one of those games I play about 25-33% of the way and either get filtered or bored. I unironically think Dishonored is better. I'm sure on some galaxy-brain level Thief has some of the best stealth ever but eh... the gameplay is too one note, the levels are labyrinthine and boring, there isn't enough storyfag shit to get me to care, and it's browner than Quake. I'm aware it's me probably being a tastelet but I love pretty much every "imsim" but Thief.

>> No.7310896

For me it's Thief 2 > Deus Ex > System Shock 2
All three games are peak videogames

>> No.7310903

>>7310891
>there isn't enough storyfag shit to get me to care
It gets better as you go on but yeah if you're not feeling the stealth loop I can get dropping it.

>> No.7310923

Anyone else get memed on Divine Cybermancy being something to try if you want more Deus Ex? What a piece of shit.

>> No.7310957

>>7310775
fpbp

>> No.7310959

>>7310775
Based.

>> No.7310983

>>7310770
Go back to FPS thread.

>> No.7310991

>>7310983
But that thread is for First Person Shooters, not First Person Stealth

>> No.7311012

>>7310991
>get a bow
It's a shooter

>> No.7311015

>>7311012
kek

>> No.7311019

>>7310775
>>7310779
>>7310957
>>7310959
You console kiddies aren't fooling anyone

>> No.7311034

System Shock 2 is unironically overrated and not even in a likeable/charming way. It's genuinely bad. Deus Ex and Thief are overrated too but they're still nice games. The best immersive sim is POSTAL 2. The best stealth game is Splinter Cell Chaos Theory. The best action RPG is FONV. The best FPS is Half-Life.

>> No.7311038

>>7311034
>The best FPS is Half-Life.
The gunplay is utter garbage.

>> No.7311046

>>7311034
cringe

>> No.7311049

>>7311034
>Overrated
Dumb buzzword. No one cares that you're butthurt over too many people liking something you don't like

>> No.7311058

>>7311012
>shooting in Thief
You already lost the game

>> No.7311068

>>7311038
>The gunplay is utter garbage.
If you're saying this as a fan of immersive sims you should get some self-awareness bro.

>> No.7311069

>>7311058
Still a shooter

>> No.7311073

>>7310770
Thief 2 > SS2 > Deus Ex

>> No.7311079

>>7311068
There's nothing immersive about deus ex.

>> No.7311085

>>7311019
I love old school FPS and RTS games. Immersive sims are a meme genre that don't know what the fuck they want to be. Most end up being unfocused messes where every individual part is mediocre but hey, at least theres variety!

>> No.7311089

>>7311034
wow your opinions are trash thanks for letting us know

>> No.7311094

>>7311034
The only thing that I almost agree with here is the opinion on Postal 2

>> No.7311102

>>7311085
Thief is a full blown 3D stealth game, the first in its genre.

>> No.7311104

>>7311102
technically tenchu was the first 3d stealth

>> No.7311108

>>7311104
Tenchu was an action game with stealth elements.

>> No.7311124

>>7311102
Yeah its a stealth game until it starts throwing zombies at you for no reason. Oh wait, I know the reason. The reason is because the devs had no idea what they wanted Thief to be until months before launch. That would also explain the terrible (even for the time) guard AI.

>> No.7311136

>>7311124
Filtered.

>> No.7311142

System shock 2 doesn't do anything that thief and deus ex didn't do better

>> No.7311175

>>7311136
ahahahaha pathetic

>> No.7311327

Thief 2 > SS2 > Deus Ex

>> No.7311645

>>7311327
based

>> No.7311657

>>7311142
It has better gameplay than Deus Ex which is a cakewalk even on Realistic. Accuracy system is also much better than DX.

>> No.7311872

Subjective. I've only played SS2 and Deus Ex but as an overall game Deus Ex wins it out for me. Its gameplay is less clunky and at higher difficulty levels you don't have to resort to using a fucking wrench with clunky melee mechanics as your main weapon. I consider these games incomparable because they execute almost everything else near perfectly, though. No game of Deus Ex or SS2 ever winds up the same because of how well everything comes together

>> No.7311879

>>7311657
Accuracy is a meme once you reach advanced in rifles or have the laser sight. If you upgrade your weapons properly you can have a reliable gun by the 2-3rd mission. But yes, DX is easy compared to SS2. At high difficulties SS2 was very punishing. Less ammo and no respawning healtb and enemies don't stop respawning behind corners

>> No.7311924

>>7310770
What debate? Play them all.

>> No.7311927

>>7310781
Thief 1 had stronger atmosphere than 2, IMO

>> No.7311935 [DELETED] 

>>7311038
What a strange way to say that your basedfingers are too slow to shoot the headcrabs.

>> No.7312202

>>7311142
1) Better Atmosphere
2) More interesting enemies
3) Cooler abilities

>> No.7312469

>>7312202
>atmosphere
I'd say atmosphere in both Thiefs is stronger than in SS2
>more interesting enemies
SS2 has a larger number of interesting enemies, but the most interesting enemy in Thief 2 is equally interesting to most interesting enemy in SS2 (hybrid=servant). As for main villain, Thief 2's Karras has more interesting VA and personality, while SS2's The Many is more interesting conceptually
>abilities
I guess SS2 wins in that aspect but on the other hand Thief's strength is its stealth system which is better than SS2's and in SS2 there is no rope arrow

>> No.7312479

>>7310770
Ultima Underworld.

>> No.7312504

>>7310770
Deus Ex > Thief II > System Shock 2
Thief II is probably the best all the way through, but Deus Ex has so much substance to it. System Shock 2 was a straight downgrade from the prior game.

>> No.7312512

>>7310794
>Thief 2 isn't good in either area, and SS2 fails to utilize its interesting parts fully, so yah.
Retard post. Thief is the last time I genuinely was interested about a game's setting, although I got that more from Thief 1 than 2.

>> No.7312558

>>7311872
The melee in SS2 is a million times better than DX and the mechanics are less clunky.

>> No.7312575

>>7312469
>my opinion is more right than your opinion

>> No.7312584

>>7311879
>accuracy is a meme once you trivialize it for the rest of the game
not doing the mechanics any favors by describing it like this

>> No.7312672

>>7311124
>Yeah its a stealth game until it starts throwing zombies at you for no reason. Oh wait, I know the reason. The reason is because the devs had no idea what they wanted Thief to be until months before launch. That would also explain the terrible (even for the time) guard AI.

Get a load of this pleb. Just because you don't know how to sneak past the undead doesn't mean it's a bad stealth game. You probably knocked out every guard in the levels before and were overwhelmed by enemies you can't just blackjack. The guard AI has many warning and states of alarm and the stealth system is intuitive compared to games like MGS and most every other stealth game, because they rely on having meta-knowledge of the stealth system rather than being intuitive right from the word go.

Fucking coddletoddlers.

>> No.7312680

>>7312672
How much do you want to bet he reloads every time he gets spotted and thinks the game is bad because of it?

>> No.7312819

>>7312575
Yes.

>> No.7312862

>>7312680
Neither of those anons but I actually did it in both Thief games on my first playthroughs. In Thief 1 it was notorious, in Thief 2 I got better and more patient and game was easier so I went through the game with much fewer failures.
I do that because in a stealth game getting noticed means failing at the game. It's equal to dying so it warrants a retry.

>> No.7312902

>>7312862
>It's equal to dying so it warrants a retry.
It's not equivalent to dying idiot. Try carrying flash bombs instead of savescumming like a mongoloid.

>> No.7312938

>>7312584
I never said it was ideal. More like something you have to get past if you want to enjoy the guns blazing route. I can't think of any game that does rpg based gun mechanics right

>> No.7312947

>>7312862
Ghosting is the cancer that killed stealth games. Never understood why it's so prevalent in this genre. No one reloads and RPG, fighter or shooter because they took a single point of damage or missed a shot except maybe the top turbo autists who've played the game a million times and want extra challenge. As a result no one balanced their games around runs like that. Stealth however got neutered right out the gate because of autists.

I swear the only real stealth experience you can get is doing quick raids, breaking the rules or trying to outmaneuver someone in a multiplayer games like SS13, Trouble in Terrorist Town, Rust, Minecraft, Counter-Strike, etc. That's how fucking bad it's gotten.

>> No.7312950

>>7312558
Swinging melee weapons in SS2 felt like moving through sludge compared to DX.

>> No.7312958

>>7311034
oh you're a normalfag. very cool anon!

>> No.7312978

>>7312938
>I can't think of any game that does rpg based gun mechanics right
System Shock 2.

>> No.7312980

>>7312950
In DX it was essentially a gun with no range, in SS2 swings are actually based on animations because it's on Dark engine.

>> No.7313003

>>7312947
If you fail a fight with a monster, your character dies. If you fail at stealth, you get noticed. Both are failures to achieve a goal only detection in stealth game usually isn't punished with instant game-over. But it's a failure nevertheless.

>> No.7313009

>>7312558
>Less clunky
>>7312980
>Admits it's instantaneous
Really bad word choice. Clunky implies slow, awkward, etc. If it's literally a gun with no range that's basically the exact opposite. You might argue it's weightless but not clunky.

>> No.7313012

>>7311927
Agreed, but that's not in the OP pic so

>> No.7313017

>>7313003
No, because part of stealth is running away and trying to have to sneak past a person who is on high alert. It'd be like fighting a monster who kills you in 1 hit. All later stealth games followed your retard logic and they're all shit.

>> No.7313209

>>7312862
>Cheesing the game is the way it's meant to be played
>Never had to learn how to run from guards while avoiding other guards and dodging loud surfaces like tile all to alert as few more people as possible
>Never had to sneak through a level when the alarm is going off and every NPC has their sword drawn
>Never had to face the consequences for any of his mistakes just loads a new game
You cut out half the game.

>> No.7313229

>>7311924
Go back to plebbit

>> No.7313231

>>7311924
>Don't discuss videogames on videogame board

>> No.7313265

>>7313229
Never been on it, never will. You probably would like it though.

>>7313231
You're not discussing them, you're trying to stir up shitposting.

>> No.7314163

>>7310770
I'm glad people at least acknowledge that Deus Ex is a stealth game, and not pretending that Deus is suited for non-stealth gameplay or like it's just one of the many niches you can be in (it's not, there aren't separate skills for stealth, you are always encouraged to use stealth no matter the build, and non-stealth playthroughs are absolute memery like no-jump Mario playthroughs).

>> No.7314178

>>7312819
Autist

>> No.7314182

I would definitely put System Shock 2 as the worst of the three. I was completely enamored with it the first time I played it, mainly because of the atmosphere. But the gameplay is horrible, because unlike Deus Ex/Thief, combat is the focus. I enjoy the original much more and I played it for the first time a couple of years ago, so I don't have nostalgia goggles on.

>> No.7314183

>>7314182
Yet your taste is still trash

>> No.7314201

>>7312672
>Just because you don't know how to sneak past the undead doesn't mean it's a bad stealth game.
No, sneaking past zombies isn't interesting because they are literally zombies. They have no AI to interact with, which is the heart and soul of any good stealth game. Just because you *can* stealth past them does not make it fun or interesting, I know this because I did it. I have played almost every major stealth game there is, Thief is one of the worst in regards to AI, hell it might even by THE worst.

>The guard AI has many warning and states of alarm and the stealth system is intuitive compared to games like MGS
AHAHAHAHAHA they literally have like 3 states you fucking liar. Neutral, cautious, and alert. This is just like any other stealth game except for the fact that guards finding bodies literally does nothing against your score, and they can't even wake them up. Thief is litearlly a JOKE mechanically compared to other stealth games in terms of the AI. God Thieffags are so fucking stupid.

>Fucking coddletoddlers.
I play exclusivly on PC except for the rare occasion there is a console exclusive I care about. Nice try!

>How much do you want to bet he reloads every time he gets spotted and thinks the game is bad because of it?
Wrong again! I play every PC game with quicksaves using the same method. I only quicksave when I complete a major objective. I would rather they had not been lazy and designed an actual checkpoint system like Far Cry 1 did, because that is actually fair and makes things more intense.

>> No.7314203
File: 578 KB, 888x894, 1587175957936.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7314203

>based and redpilled
System Shock
Thief: The Dark Project
Deus Ex

>based but bluepilled
Thief II: The Metal Age
System Shock 2

>cringe but redpilled
Deus Ex: Invisible war

>cringe and bluepilled
Thief: Deadly Shadows

>> No.7314223

Thief 2 > System Shock 2 >>>>Deus Ex.
Deus Ex is easily one of the most overrated sheath games on this website. People just get suckered in by the storyline and think that makes it good.

>> No.7314231

>>7314223
Its story is a fucking meme you dingus. The thing it is praised for is its level design.

>> No.7314235

>>7314201
Also let me continue to add to this because I am sick to death of Thieffags acting like their game has better stealth than something like MGS. Getting caught in Thief is a fucking JOKE. In other good stealth games like Splinter Cell or MGS, getting caught is actually lethal to you because guards actually pose a threat. In Thief guards are so fucking inept you can literally run circles around the entire map and they WILL NEVER CATCH YOU. I know this, because I have done it. I wanted to see how bad Thief's AI really was and it always shocked me that it really is that bad. Secondly, once you go out of sight for a few seconds, guards will just go back to their neutral state like nothing fucking happened. There isn't an alert state like in MGS where extra guards come pouring out for a few minutes that you have to wait out. You can literally run around like a madman killing everyone you come across, hide for 30 seconds in a shadow, and then guards will just go back to normal like you were never there. Thief is a fucking joke.

>> No.7314319

>>7314182
System Shock 2 has both better gunplay, stealth mechanics, and RPG mechanics than Deus Ex.

>> No.7314327

>>7314203
>cringe and bluepilled
Your post

>> No.7314330

>>7314223
It's not a stealth game, but it gives you the choice to take that approach. Also, this >>7314231
Deus Ex's level design is incredible. The variety of ways you can approach a situation is aided by the way the levels are, not just the augmentations.

>> No.7314445

>>7314231
>>7314330
>the thing it is praised for is its level design.
lmao nah. People care about it cause of it's 'DEEP POLTICAL STORYLINE OMG HOW DID THEY KNOW?! RED PILL RED PILL RED PILL
Cause it's an otherwise meh game

>> No.7314446

>>7314445
ok, contrarian.

>> No.7314479

>>7314319
>gunplay
I don't think either game has great gunplay, but at least in Deus Ex it isn't a focus, you can complete objectives through other means

>stealth
what, you mean using psi to turn yourself invisible? the game wasn't designed with stealth in mind, how is having to be invisible to be unseen by enemies great stealth mechanics?

>RPG mechanics
the RPG mechanics are completely unbalanced, with many of the weapons not being worth the points invested to use them, i.e. EMP rifle which require max energy weapons while having no effect on the most common enemies, every heavy weapon besides the grenade launcher, every exotic weapon besides the crystal shard

>> No.7314568

>>7314479
Game directly has Thief's stealth mechanics and its propagation of sound can be used to do things like bait shotgun hybrids around by whacking nearby walls with a wrench, RPG mechanics actually require you to make investments into skills or research in order to use certain weapons instead of being able to use everything and kill everyone with everything left on untrained skill. Dragon's tooth requires no investment while being hands down the most overpowered weapon in the game and DX's guards are blind and deaf allowing you do sprint around and whack everyone with one gas grenade.

>> No.7314836 [DELETED] 
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7314836

Any links?