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/vr/ - Retro Games

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7298141 No.7298141 [Reply] [Original]

I wonder if this was impressive back in the day? Having a fully 3D-rendered environment on your home console back in December 1994? Is the first King's Field game (the jap-only release) groundbreaking in any way in that matter?

>> No.7298173

Yes, it was impressive.

>> No.7298195

>>7298141
mind boggling, really

>> No.7298217

>>7298173
doom was far more impressive
no one cared if it was 'real' 3d if it looked as shit as king's field

>> No.7298246

>>7298141
Same month on the 3DO
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgeOtuqabZg

>> No.7298250

>>7298217
This. Fucking alone in the dark had been out for 2 years, frontier elite 2 had been out for a year, as was doom and arena had dropped earlier that year. Kingsfield plays worse than all of them and looks like if somebody downgraded your eyes then punched in one of them

>> No.7298252

>>7298141
KF is impressive for featuring almost no 2D sprites whatsoever. Every item and enemy was fully 3D modeled.

>> No.7298304

>>7298217
>>7298250
> doom
> mode 7-esque sprite turning
neither of these guys were alive when these games were coming out
Kings Field was extremely impressive at the time.

>> No.7298307

>>7298217
>faggot crying about graphics

>> No.7298319

>>7298173
No it wasn't. Even at launch you had games like ridge racer or toshinden to compare it to.

>> No.7298353

>>7298217
>>7298250
>>7298319
You fags can't know because you weren't in those days.

>> No.7298367

>>7298353
I'm 36, I remember the PS1 launch pretty clearly.

>> No.7298432

>>7298319
Toshinden didn't come out until like a year after KF and Ridge Racer was basically pants shitting if you played it the year it came out, it was like having liquefied fun injected directly into your soul. Saying something "isn't as impressive as Ridge Racer when it was new" is not a criticism it is just something so completely obvious that you look like an idiot for even saying it.

King's Field was impressive for being an FPRPG that did not suck and looking cool as fuck because it was real 3D.

>> No.7298474

>>7298432
Look, there were a LOT more visually impressive games than kings field at the time, and it was widely criticised for its graphics at launch.

>> No.7298497
File: 21 KB, 640x480, f2b-2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7298497

I used to think Fade to Black was the best looking game ever, for a time. After that, Time Crisis with it's texture mapping.

>> No.7298498

>>7298474
...in corporate magazines run by shills? Do all you opinions come from external influences?

>> No.7298516

>>7298498
They come from the fact that I can compare kings field with the many other games from 1994 that didn't look like they were made over a weekend by a couple of student programmers.

>> No.7298596

>>7298246
that's prerendered backgrounds you retard

>> No.7298859
File: 16 KB, 489x384, 1596248686674.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7298859

>>7298304
Nobody in the west even knew what the fuck kings field was, dipshit zoomer.

>> No.7298986

>>7298859
>when you're actually fucking retarded
brah foe

>> No.7300025

>>7298141
For the 3D models? I suppose it was pretty impressive, but you had games like Doom and Quarantine right around the same time which were much nicer to look at. Maybe not on home consoles (yet), but on PC.

>> No.7300165

>>7298474
Moving goalposts already?

>> No.7300178
File: 73 KB, 1280x720, maxresdefault.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7300178

>>7298141
>>7298173
>>7298195
Alone in the Dark looked more impressive than it.

>> No.7300185
File: 94 KB, 1280x866, cybermorph jag.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7300185

>>7298141
Jaguar did it first in 1993 with Cybermorph.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9d4-DICyJ0
Then again in 1994 with Iron Soldier.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C44xYXycDzE

Both games had open ended levels, more objects on screen, and better framerate than KF1.

>> No.7300189

>>7300178
This is straight up cumtrarianism lmao

>> No.7300196

>>7300178
sadly it's shit

>> No.7300209

>>7300178
Looks like shit compared to what acorn archimedes was capable of in 1987.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNXypBxNGMo

>> No.7300210

>>7300196
It is, but still better than Resident Evil at least.

>> No.7300217

>>7300209
That's visually VERY impressive for a 1987 home computer, but I'm not sure I'd say that it looks better than Alone In The Dark.

>> No.7300224

>>7300217
AiTD isn't a bad looking game artistically, but technically it's got very low poly count and primitive textures.

>> No.7300268

king's field essentially was full 3d rendered ultima underworld. the first game was an unremarkable proof of concept but the sequels were significantly more polished and closer to what could be called impressive trendsetters however the games were bit ahead of their time and the sacrifices to even get the game running were too great to attract anything but a niche fanbase. kf3 especially is so ambitious of a game it feels like a ps2 game crammed to playstation by force.

>> No.7300275

>>7298217
Nope. Seeing something like this, which was something you only saw in arcades, was pretty mind blowing. Of course PC was also seeing similar things begin to come out at the time as well.

>> No.7300318

>>7300268
>king's field essentially was full 3d rendered ultima underworld.
No, it's a watered down and consolised Ultima Underworld. System Shock is the true successor to UU, coming out in the same year as KF1 with better graphics, better framerate, and more content. KF games are just JRPG garbage with sluggish controls. SS on the other hand invented modern FPS controls.

>> No.7300329

>>7298141
I remember the first time seeing full 3d-games, I think it was Stunt car racer on the amiga. I wasn't impressed, game was pretty fun, but I was more impressed by detailed 2d-graphics.

>> No.7300362

>home console back in December 1994
https://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?28525-Definitive-list-of-Ray-Casting-and-Polygon-based-graphics-on-the-Mega-Drive-Genesis
That's not even going to the home computer market, a couple 80s examples being Starglider II and Stunt Car Racer - though it depends on whether you want to be pedantic over the definition of "fully 3D-rendered" and whether that requires a textured environment or not

>> No.7300665

>>7298250
Not even earlier that year, Doom dropped december 1993. This mifght have been impressive for consolecucks, but on PC we were already playing Descent

>> No.7300682

>>7300665
edit: my bad, actually Descent was released in early 95' as it seems, i could swear it was in late 1994

>> No.7300685
File: 62 KB, 640x480, file.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7300685

>>7298141
in comparison this is what a fully 3D rendered environment looked like on PCs in 1994, which cost you around $1200+.

>> No.7300698

I don't know if I'd have called it 'impressive'. But a game doesn't have to be 'impressive' to be interesting.

>> No.7300714

>>7300685
And yet it's an infinitely getter game than King's Field.

>> No.7300743

>>7298141
it's still more impressive than anything that has come out since, especially demon's shits

>> No.7300779

>>7300743
Uhmazing.

>> No.7300789

>>7300685
Those textures look sharp, diverse, and more high res.

>> No.7300827

KF's issue isn't the visuals, it's the horrendously slow movement and braindead combat.

>> No.7300830

>>7300714
>>7300789
looks like it was made in mspaint

>> No.7300892

>>7300685
You also had some impressive "2.5D" environments with Heretic, Doom 2, and Quarantine, right around that same time, not to mention The Elder Scrolls: Arena, which was partially inspired by the earlier Ultima Underworld.

There were already a lot of great 3D games on PC, some which looked a lot better than King's Field.

>> No.7300962

>>7300209
That has better water effects than some modern games.

>> No.7301026

>>7300209
Why does the world map seem to repeatedly tile in a similar (yet imperfect) pattern?

>>7300962
Considering that's a plain color gradient with some very simple particle effects, I'd actually really like to hear your examples.

>> No.7301032

>>7300685
SS was one of the very best games on pc in 1994. Typical 3d textured games were stuff like magic carpet, slipstream 5000, fatal racing - 256 colour at 320x200. Pretty good and now nostalgic but technically a lot weaker than ridge racer on ps1.

Upto late 1994 pc was not fully capable of smooth scrolling according to the pc gamer review of dragons lair though a few games managed it like psycho pinball it was not a guarantee.

>> No.7301034

Someone here really hates King's Field because he was filtered by the squid.

>> No.7301071

>>7300318
jrpgs are turn based

>> No.7301079

>>7300318
also ss had exactly the same controls as uu, dont know what its invented

>> No.7301526

>>7300318
ultima underworld and system shock still had sprite objects. im not disputing which game is better, king's field is a pretty bad game series with niche allure to it. but it had 3d environments and 3d rendered enemies and objects. even magic projectiles were most of the part ugly ass glass baubles. that was what i meant with 3d rendered ultima underworld , i didnt mean it was a better game by any metric.

>> No.7302243

did you know that you can like both kings field and ultima underworld? think about it

>> No.7302663

>>7300318
System Shock was fucking garbage.
LGS can't make good games.

>> No.7302669

>>7301071
based on what?

>> No.7302674 [DELETED] 

>>7301526
PC niggers defend 80's shovelware.

>> No.7302693

>>7302243
no u dont idort

>> No.7302801

>>7298141
There's nothing impressive about this. Ridge Racer came out at the same time, and didn't run at 10FPS

>> No.7302913

>>7301026
Are you just trying to be picky? Here's an Acorn game from the same year as KF1. It's huge and buttery smooth.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKEaX4RjWkk

>>7302801
Ridge Racer had a limited rendering capability and linearly streamed objects.

>> No.7303795

>>7302913
>Are you just trying to be picky?
No, I'm actually genuinely curious as to why that is. Was it just a conscious design decision, or was there something technically limiting which forced the devs to use a map like that? It's not a perfectly repeating tile pattern, there's some variation, yet it's also so similar, is it some kind of limited procedural generation?

I don't know that much about programming or stuff (mostly layman stuff), but I recognize the game overall as really impressive for the time period.

>> No.7303805

>>7300178
>prerendered backdrops
It might 'look' better but it's playing checkers vs. KF's chess.

>> No.7303807

>>7300685
Shock was a fantastic game, but that was STILL using 2D actors vs King's Field's 3D.

>> No.7303810

>>7300892
Ready for some of those examples. I'm sure there's one or two I'm not thinking of, but what 3D PC games had both polygonal and textured actors and environments in '94?

>> No.7303813

>>7302801
It is absolutely unfair to compare it to a money's-no-object arcade game and you know it. What's the cost difference between an RR cabinet and a PS fucking 1 in '94 again?

>> No.7303817
File: 132 KB, 900x506, ityir.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7303817

Tex Murphy: Under a Killing Moon (1994) is more impressive than any of the games mentioned in this thread.

>> No.7303819

>>7303817
Though it is a narrative game with no realtime combat, this is actually a good example. Thank you.

Descent is also of note.

>> No.7303829

>>7298250
>AITD
2D backgrounds
>Frontier Elite II
flat shaded
>Doom and Arena
2D actors

You don't fucking get it.

>> No.7304460

>>7298304
It was only impressive if you only paid attention to or cared about games on console.

>> No.7304487

>>7298304
I've never heard of Kings Field before. I had a friend who couldn't stop talking about Descent though before it was released. He kept repeating the blurb how it was the first "real" 3D game with 6 degrees of freedom unlike Doom.

>> No.7304494

>>7303829
>flat shaded
Given the scale of the game, it's alright. Can the PS1 even run it? Also I'm not even sure if King's Field used goraud shading.

>>7304487
Yes, Descent is more impressive than King's Field in every way.

>> No.7304656

>>7304494
Pretty sure it could have, actually, probably at a better framerate than most PCs at the time, though with some Z-buffer fuckery.

Yeah, Descent is crazy impressive for the time. I keep forgetting just how hold it is. So was KF, though, considering what other first person dungeon crawlers were doing on a tech level. Funny is that while it was impressive by PC RPG standards, it wasn't very impressive by PS1 standards.

>> No.7304661

>>7304656
*old

>> No.7304883

>>7304656
>Funny is that while it was impressive by PC RPG standards, it wasn't very impressive by PS1 standards.
It depends which "PC" you're talking about. 100Mhz+ pentium with voodoo and above blew the PS1 out of the water. Any PC with a graphics card was more powerful than a PS1. RISC computers such as the PowerPC based Power Macs were powerful as fuck, there's no way the PS1 could compete with the 1994 PowerMac 4400.

>> No.7305173

>>7304883
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExaAYIKsDBI

>> No.7305178

Yes.

>> No.7305189

Consumer grade 3D accelerators weren't a thing when the PS1 first came out. Starting from the mid 80s you had some very expensive workstation cards that could do additional vector math and some shape acceleration in tools like Auto CAD, but nothing game related. So your example is useless. The first consumer grade 3D accelerators were also terrible. I myself fell for the S3 ViRGE meme. That was before Voodoo hit the scene.

>PowerMac
Always too expensive for what it was, even in '94.

>> No.7305224

>>7305189
>I myself fell for the S3 ViRGE meme

In 1996, to my eternal shame, I passed up a Voodoo for a fucking ATI RAGE

>> No.7305275

>>7304460
>It was only impressive if you paid attention

>> No.7305303

>>7305189
Well its true back then consumer grade 3D accelerator cards werent optimized for games. Until voodoo came around, 3D hardware rendering was basically non existent. 3D games like terminator future shock, descent, quake, system shock, and duke 3d, relied on software rendering and required some really fast CPU. But, when voodoo hit the market in 97, everything changed and people suddenly could emulate n64 games on their PCs. PCs were suddenly about 3 times as powerful or more at running games than the contemporary consoles.

I wasnt saying that PCs were always more powerful at rendering 3D graphics than the PS1 (though it had an advantage at running everything else that required more clock speed and RAM than polygon processing, Doom ran better on a 486 than a PS1, I remember some games with flat shaded polygons like alone in the dark did too). But once hardware 3D rendering became commercialized, it was the death sentence for consoles.

By the 5th gen, consoles could only rely on exclusives and a marginally lower price. By the 6th gen, consoles were sold at a loss and relied on exclusives because PCs were getting so much more affordable and optimized for games.

>Always too expensive for what it was, even in '94.
For a mere RISC PC, yes actually. But doesnt mean that they werent powerful.

>> No.7305330

>>7305303
>it was the death sentence for consoles
Obviously not, seeing how these systems would continue to sell. It's the normie that will keep consoles alive. For a long time.

>> No.7305494

>>7300209
Impressive for 1987, but not better than AITD, quit jerking yourself over it.

>> No.7305501

>>7300209
Still miles above what any of the 16 bit system could do, even with custom chips.

>> No.7305507

>>7300830
King's Field looks like it was made in PCPaint.

>>7303810
Wings of Glory.

>> No.7305518

>all boring tech demos
PCbros...

>> No.7305535
File: 789 KB, 200x200, 1595631654862.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7305535

>>7305507
>>7300830
You both sound like clueless mongs

>> No.7305542

High quality actually!

>> No.7305564

>>7300209
Brit-fag detected, Zarch was ported to the Atari ST and Amiga, both of which were 2 years older than the Archimedes, it was a dogshit computer system that no one used for a reason.

>> No.7305579

>>7305564
Clueless comment

>> No.7305583

>>7305535
Isn't everyone in this thread?

>> No.7305631

>>7305579
Clueless retard alert.

The only thing going for the Acorn was its processor and unique OS architecture, other than that the Amiga stormed ahead with MUCH better multi-tasking, better audio, and better video processing since it had processors for each one rather than everything centered around a single CPU like the Acorn.

Video Toaster blew away anything the Acorn had in regards to video processing, and it stands today as evidence as the Amiga demo-scene is still being utilized.

>> No.7305646

>>7305631
Nobody said anything different, retard

>> No.7306479

>>7305564
>>7305631
Amiga and ST were dogshit at 3D. They were good productivity hardwares, but shit 3D renderers. Acorn's RISC chip was years ahead of the Motorola 68k family, it just lacked software support because it wasn't as well known. But it's a fact that every CPU incorporates aspects of the RISC design nowadays.

>> No.7306550
File: 67 KB, 930x524, wc3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7306550

It was all impressive. Everything 3D was brand new. I remember being particularly awed by Ridge Racer and Wing Commander III. I felt like we were on the cusp of total immersion. Even though the pixel counts got higher, and the lighting and textures and effects all improved, there was really nothing comparable to the sheer wonder of being able to navigate through completely imaginary 3D spaces.

>> No.7306578
File: 154 KB, 1080x1080, 9ar8p1gfpan41.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7306578

>>7298195
hearty kek

>> No.7306840

i feel like people claim kings field was a masterpeice because its made by from and in hindsight they can see the darksouls roots, but at the time in my memory it was forgettable trash and not a patch on their armored core games.

>> No.7307093 [DELETED] 

>>7306479
>Amiga and ST were dogshit at 3D
>They were good productivity hardwares, but shit 3D renderers

You have virtually no fucking clue what you're talking about, considering the Amiga 1200 was capable of out-performing the RiscPC in Quake, which the RiscPC was the late brand of Acorn PC's. On top of that, Zorch was ported over to and ran quite decently on older models of Amiga systems. The model that the Acorn was competing with directly would've been the Amiga 2000, which was a top-of-the-line model back in the day and unrivaled by nearly none. The Acorn computer it would've been going up against would've been the

The idea of them being good "productivity computers" was primarily a feature of the Archimedes as it could handle single-task workloads a lot more easily, but again, it couldn't multi-task and its video processing was absolute shit. The Amiga supported higher resolutions, smoother performance because of its multiple co-processors, and because you could upgrade on-board video AND graphics cards, it was literally unrivaled in its ability to be used as a gaming machine.

You're practically a retard spouting nonsense.

>> No.7307113 [DELETED] 

>>7306479
>Amiga and ST were dogshit at 3D
>They were good productivity hardwares, but shit 3D renderers

You have virtually no fucking clue what you're talking about, considering the Amiga 1200 was capable of out-performing the RiscPC in Quake, which the RiscPC was the late brand of Acorn PC's. On top of that, Zorch was ported over to and ran quite decently on older models of Amiga systems. The model that the Acorn was competing with directly would've been the Amiga 2000, which was a top-of-the-line model back in the day and unrivaled by nearly none.

The idea of them being good "productivity computers" was primarily a feature of the Archimedes as it could handle single-task workloads a lot more easily, but again, it couldn't multi-task and its video processing was absolute shit. The Amiga supported higher resolutions, smoother performance because of its multiple co-processors, and because you could upgrade on-board video AND graphics cards, it was literally unrivaled in its ability to be used as a gaming machine.

You're practically a retard spouting nonsense.

>But it's a fact that every CPU incorporates aspects of the RISC design nowadays

Lol, no it's not, that originated on fucking Apple you history-rewriting fucktard, also a fact that every single computer incorporates the same upgradeable features that the Amiga systems supported. Classic Mac OS is single-handedly one of the most innovative and copied designs of modern computing, so much so that RISC OS copied a lot of its features, as has almost every single other OS since then, other than maybe Linux.

>> No.7307127

>>7306840
It's got atmosphere though. Armored core is soulless.

>> No.7307145

>>7306479
>Amiga and ST were dogshit at 3D
>They were good productivity hardwares, but shit 3D renderers

You have virtually no fucking clue what you're talking about, considering the Amiga 1200 was capable of out-performing the RiscPC in Quake, which the RiscPC was the late brand of Acorn PC's. On top of that, Zorch was ported over to and ran quite decently on older models of Amiga systems. The model that the Acorn was competing with directly would've been the Amiga 2000, which was a top-of-the-line model back in the day and unrivaled by nearly none.

The idea of them being good "productivity computers" was primarily a feature of the Archimedes as it could handle single-task workloads a lot more easily, but again, it couldn't multi-task and its video processing was absolute shit. The Amiga supported higher resolutions, smoother performance because of its multiple co-processors, and because you could upgrade on-board video AND graphics cards, it was literally unrivaled in its ability to be used as a gaming machine.

You're practically a retard spouting nonsense.

>But it's a fact that every CPU incorporates aspects of the RISC design nowadays

RISC design was not unique to the Archimedes, as its design goes back decades before Acorn even existed, and even then, the RISC concept was not invented by Acorn. It IS a fact that every single computer incorporates the same upgradeable features that the Amiga systems supported though, being among the first in its field to support custom hardware to offer accelerated graphics, sound, and video processing.

>> No.7307157

>>7306840
The only reason anyone knows who FROM Software is, is because of their Souls series. Kings Field was seen as mediocre at best, and Armored Core was niche.

>> No.7307616

>>7307157
All good games.

>> No.7307730

>>7298986
>defense is to talk in nigger speech

>> No.7307739

>>7303813
Because Ridge Racer wasn't a PS1 launch game? Lol

>> No.7309212

>>7300210
Capcom built their entire RE franchise, their most successful to date including Street Fighter, all off of Resident Evil executing Alone in the Dark massively better than Alone in the Dark did.

>> No.7309248

>>7300210
lmao

>> No.7309361

>>7309212
>250 million brainlets bought madden nfl therefore its good

>> No.7309385

>>7309361
Are they bad football games?

>> No.7309564

>>7298250
It's Japanese dude so stfu.

>> No.7309690
File: 11 KB, 283x151, turn off the computer.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7309690

>>7309564

>> No.7310189

>>7305275
Actually thinking about it more even if you did only ever pay attention to console games it still wouldn't be impressive. The only way it could be is if you really weren't paying attention to anything else.

>>7300165
How is that moving the goalposts? That's exactly what the question is.

>> No.7310294

>>7310189
>was it impressive?
Yes
>okay but was it REALLY impressive?

Redditors don't know when to shut up.

>> No.7310582

>>7310294
It was neither impressive nor really impressive. Nice appeal to Reddit in an attempt to deflect though. Gonna call me a zoomer next to complete the hand waving?