/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.7293960]

So why are we still pretending this is a masterpiece?

[Anonymous No.7293985]

>>7293960
Cause I can still boot it up to this very day despite having first played it almost 20 years ago and having replayed it countless times over the years and still have fun with it.
If that's not a masterpiece, I have no idea what is.

[Anonymous No.7294000]

>>7293985
That's more of a genre thing, for me that's true for all 2d Marios and only 3 and World are masterpieces, OoT? No way in hell I'm doing the tutorial and Deku Tree again

[Anonymous No.7294005]

>>7294000
uuuh why? It takes less than 15 minutes if you know what you're doing lol.

[Anonymous No.7294008]

>>7294000
>That's more of a genre thing
? What do you mean a 'genre thing'. I can't even say the same thing about Majora's Mask which I also love.

[Anonymous No.7294010]

Because it is a masterpiece, and you're a faggot zoomer.

[Anonymous No.7294024]

>>7293960
because it is, get over it sonictard, its getting sad.

[Anonymous No.7294026]

>>7294008
It's easier to get into a platformer again than a rpg or adventure game with a long ass intro/beginning, MM does have a more tedious start than OoT

[Anonymous No.7294049]

>>7294026
So how does that apply to me when I'm saying I don't have an issue with it

[Anonymous No.7294076]

>>7294026
>MM does have a more tedious start than OoT
not really, in Ocarina your start are the first 3 dungeons as child link, last of which is admittedly pretty tedious and involves an escort mission. MM is just half an hour maybe, find the kids, get the tear, go to tower.

I still like Ocarina but those three first dungeons probably keep me for playing it more , i often find myself wanting to revisit one specific dungeon or another but get lazy of having to replay the whole game.

[Anonymous No.7294106]

>>7294010
/thread

[Anonymous No.7294281]

>>7294010
FPBP
/v/ thread

[Anonymous No.7294498]

>>7293960
it was the best they had available at the time

[Anonymous No.7294506]

>>7294498
its better than most of the trash that comes out today too

[Anonymous No.7294534]

>>7293960
Because you people never played the NES Zelda games back in the 80s.

[Anonymous No.7294540]

>>7293960
>Nintendo console
>childhood nostalgia

Not really shocking

[Anonymous No.7294548]

>>7294534
i did, one is not as good and the other is the worst in the entire franchise and a shitty game overall

[Anonymous No.7294560]

Because it is

[Anonymous No.7294567]

>>7294548
Yeah, right. Zelda II is the most soulful game ever developed.

[Anonymous No.7294578]

>>7294534
>Zelda 2 fag
If I wanted to play an ARPG Id play a better game than Shitelda 2

[Anonymous No.7294593]

>>7293960
I really tried to give this game a chance.

Wasn't allowed on dial up back in the day when I was a small child, so I couldn't figure out how to play the game as adult Link, still had fond memories of it.

When I was 20, I played the version on the 3DS, had fun, but just beat Bongo Bongo when I really needed money, so I decided to sell my 3DS and was really sad to not finish it, as I was so close and was having fun.

Enter adult collector me. Rebuy the game, play it, and the entire time I am playing, I am wishing I was playing something else the entire time. Dungeons are boring, and repetitive. Travelling through Hyrule Field is a constant reminder of how sparse and lifeless it is. Just generally not having fun, but I decide to press on, as it has been 20 years since I have first started playing the game and have never beat it.

Finally get to Ganondorf, I am repulsed by how simple and unimaginative his bossfight is. Escape the castle, oh shit, he's reincarnated as Ganon by part of the Triforce, dis gunna be good . . . except it is probably the easiest boss in the game. Gohma is honestly more challenging.

I'm glad I finally met my goal and beat the game, There are good things about the game, like the characters, boss fights are actually (generally) fun, but most of the game is just so boring, I felt like I was just "going through the motions" rather than enjoying a fun, interactive experience. I usually try to give retro games the benefit of the doubt, or try to frame my experience in context, but if I was an adult back in 2000 when I first played this game with no knowledge of the future, I am confident in saying, I'd be very disappointed in my experience.

I really, really want to like this game, but most Zelda games in general I play give me a similar experience. The only Zelda games I have played that I have actually enjoyed are BoTW, and I started playing Oracle of Seasons, and that seems promising.

[Anonymous No.7294606]

I wish I could experience it for the first time as an adult because having played it as a kid makes the game so trivial and easy and I can't recall anything about my first play through.

[Anonymous No.7294637]

>>7293960
Because it's a hell of a complete package. It could use some touching up these days but most of what's there is pretty damn solid.

If I were to remake it today, I would add more enemies you have to sword fight, make some enemies do more damage, populate the empty overworld more (with enemies, NPCs, animals, trees, bushes, and small puddles if you can do that in OOT's engine), and make the grottos more interesting. It would be a lot cooler if more of the grottos had you fight an enemy or solve a quick puzzle, instead of most of them just literally being "open chest, get blue rupee". I would also make it so you can do Dodongo's Cavern and Jabu Jabu's Belly in either order, ditto with the first three adult temples.

[Anonymous No.7294683]

I get the feeling that the majority of threads like this, the ones shitting on universally beloved games, come from zoomers who didn't experience the game when it was culturally relevant. As much as that ages me as a faggy millennial, I forgive them because there are so many factors about a game's place in the culture and how society was at the time that contribute to it being a classic. That said OP probably gargles a bunch of cum every morning, also MM is still better.

[Anonymous No.7294768]

>>7293985
>FPBP

[Anonymous No.7294776]

>>7294637
You already can do the first three adult dungeons in any order.

[Anonymous No.7294780]

>>7294683
>also MM is still better.
yes, this is known

[Anonymous No.7294802]

>>7294637
>It would be a lot cooler if more of the grottos had you fight an enemy or solve a quick puzzle
Majora's Mask was pretty good about this.

[Anonymous No.7294806]

>>7294776
Not quite, you need the bow for a couple switches in the Fire and Water temples

[Anonymous No.7294808]

>>7294802
It also had a lot of enemies in the overworld, and the "main" Zelda theme which OOT really should've had instead, at least when you're an adult.

[Anonymous No.7294829]

>>7294076
>MM is just half an hour maybe
Thinking this is "Masterpiece" material.

Contra, Wonder boy in Monster land and Shinobi 3 are high quality titles that hold up today. OoT, MM have both aged like milk.

[Anonymous No.7294865]

>>7294829
The intro to Majora's Mask isn't just a "tutorial", it also serves a major narrative purpose

[Anonymous No.7294869]

>>7294829
>have both aged like milk.
No they haven't.

[Anonymous No.7294876]

>>7294829
>>7294829
>Contra, Wonder boy in Monster land and Shinobi 3
no, they are arcade shit the level of which any free shovelware phone game can achieve to today

[Anonymous No.7294891]

everyone says OOT is the best because of how groundbreaking it was at the TIME it came out but being compared to all other games just for what they are as a gaming experience and not when they came out and influenced OOT has probably been surpased by dozens of games but we wont know because thats how OOTfags want to frame the definition of greatest of all time.

Theres a difference between greatest of all time and most influential of all time its like saying the first ford car is the greatest car of all time because of how groundbreaking it was at the time. That doesnt even make fucking sense.

I personally, have been on the hunt for what I consider the greatest games of all time for games just in general and not relative to how they were when they came out which is LOGICAL but its been a taxing process and I probably wont be able to come up with my own decision for at least another few years with more gaming experience under my belt

[Anonymous No.7294898]

>>7294891
>all this strawmaning
Yikes

[Anonymous No.7294907]

it's almost like it's hard for zoomers to go back to old games. who would have thought?

[Anonymous No.7294910]

>>7294593

I'm sort of in the same boat. Grew up with PC games, but I've never been able to get into 3D zelda. I think there are just a lot of fundamental issues with the game design that kill it for me.

With OOT in particular, the controls are incredibly slow and clunky. There is this huge startup lag in all the animation, combined with a really low framerate that just makes me feel so disconnected with Link. I know the excuse is that it's an earlier era of 3D but by 1998 we already had tons of fast paced and precise PC games to play. As a result of all this, combat is especially basic and undeveloped. There's really not much to it, but there's a lot of it, so the game really turns into a slog during the longer fights. The menu diving also tanks the pace of the game, especially during some infamous dungeons.

It's a bit grating, since so much of the game is very polished. Exploration and discovery play a big part in the game, coming off as quite satisfying. The puzzles are interesting, if simple. The music and art direction are superb even on such limited hardware. The story is genuinely one of the best in the series.

And yet despite all that, everything in this game is fucking slow as shit and tedious to actually do. For all of its high points, the game just plays like shit and has awful pacing. I don't like the video game parts of this video game.

Maybe the best comparison is Silent Hill 2. The game has incredible horror atmosphere, a haunting psychological story, legendary soundtrack and deep enough lore to lose yourself in for years. Yet whenever I think about going back and bonking all those slow, shuffling enemies and solving brain teaser puzzles, the will drains out of me and I throw in Resident Evil 4 instead. I just don't have the fucking temperament for these games.

[Anonymous No.7294916]

>>7294876
>>7294865
>>7294869
>major narrative purpose
Wonder Boy 2 takes 10-15seconds to be introduced to the world of Monster land and get your first sword. You can skip the dialog as well making it even quicker. But you guys don't like that. You'd rather more Half Life style games with insanely long boring tutorials.

[Anonymous No.7294918]

>>7294910
>another Halo player filtered by adhd

[Anonymous No.7294924]

If in its time was very good, then it is good, its like saying the best soccer palyer is pele or maradona or now is messi, but pele played over different ciscunstances and a different system also maradona and now messi, its ridiculous to compare new games to an old game.

[Anonymous No.7294926]

>>7294916
Look retard, I get that you have ADD but how long a game takes to get to the primary gameplay loop does not determine how it's age but even if it did then it would have STILL aged well because the game doesn't make you sit through ANY tutorial. You can run out of your house, grab the sword, get 20 rupees, buy a shield in under 5 mins and get into the first dungeon of the game just like that

[Anonymous No.7294927]

>>7294916
because they are shallow shit meant for spaz retards

[Anonymous No.7294930]

>>7294898
No. dont shit your pants because you know im right

[Anonymous No.7294934]

>>7294926
You should make a patch for Contra with a 5-30min tutorial to make it more enjoyable.

[Anonymous No.7294945]

>>7294918

If only it was Halo. When OOT came out I was balls deep into Rocket Arena 2 and Freespace.

[Anonymous No.7294952]

>>7294934
>still pretending to be retarded
Okay, faggot. If you want to be like that

[Anonymous No.7294960]

>>7293960
It's not like you're contributing ideas of what is a masterpiece.
The factor for Ocarina of Time is that outside of its graphical presentation which still gets the job done better than FF7's lego people, it's still a fairly timeless game that did almost everything it needed to and solidified its "genre" for the entire gaming industry while still being able to stand on its own two feet as a beloved game. Every 3D Zelda game that followed subsequently tried to compartmentalize and focus on different aspects of OoT to varying success, and there's numerous OoT clones that don't quite hit the same highs.

I don't think it's the best game ever, I don't like a number of things about it in recent years, but people have this weird view that a masterpiece has to be eternally flawless and can't be given criticism. And that's like saying you must love the Mona Lisa and Beethoven's Symphony No. 5 forever without a second thought.

[Anonymous No.7294963]

>>7294952
According to you it wouldn't take away from the game at all.

[Anonymous No.7294969]

>>7293960
tell me 10 games that came later than Ocarina did everything Ocarina did and did it better and are a much more enjoyable experience to pick up and play today. They can't be other Zelda titles.

Actually try and think hard about it so i can laugh at you.
>Inb4 muh ASSassins creed

[Anonymous No.7294987]

>>7294963
They're completely different games and OoT is much more complex and no the intro of OoT doesn't take away from it since you can get past it in maybe 5 mins, not 30 like your delusional ass is trying to claim

[Anonymous No.7294989]

>>7293960
Who's we? The graphics are unplayably ugly once you've upgraded from composite. Link's entire body is an aliased, tiny and blurry mess.

[Anonymous No.7294990]

>>7294969
Demon Souls series.

[Anonymous No.7294996]

>>7294987
If you'd played Wonder Boy 2 you'd know it has RPG elements just like Zelda.
>not 30 like your delusional ass is trying to claim
Scroll up. I was quoting another 64 fanboy much like yourself in this thread.

[Anonymous No.7294997]

>>7294969

I can't name 10, but Okami, Beyond Good & Evil and Darksiders 1 & 2 definitely gave me more fun than any of the 3D Zelda games.

My personal opinion is that Okami is better than any Zelda game. I've never played a game with so much fucking SOUL in it.

[Anonymous No.7295000]

>>7294960
>ff7 lego people
you understand nothing, lurk more

[Anonymous No.7295009]

>>7294990
thanks, i am laughing, i needed that

[Anonymous No.7295010]

>>7295009
filtered

[Anonymous No.7295016]

>>7294997
>Okami, Beyond Good & Evil and Darksiders 1 & 2

[Anonymous No.7295019]

>>7295009
I doubt you've played Dark Souls if you think OoT and MM are more enjoyable. Zelda games have more waifu's but if you're after gameplay Dark Souls is where its at.

[Anonymous No.7295020]

>>7295000
I know full well it was intended to be that way, mostly because the developers weren't sure of the technical constraints they were working with and also carried over the chibi-ish looks of the systems prior. I also make sure to play 7 at native resolution so the cast blend with backgrounds better (if I play the PC version it's with the ninostyle chibi models at least), so it's not like I hate them. It was just a comparison given graphics at the time to say that OoT is kind of rough graphically but still works alongside the rest of the game.

[Anonymous No.7295021]

>>7294996
Stop trying to change the fucking goal post, holy shit.
You've been nothing but disingenuous this entire time. OoT is a much more complex game than the likes of fucking Contra and Wonder Boy 2. If only because it was one of the first 3D ones and had to include an area to teach you to move in it. Even beyond that, the ''''tutorial'''' is not forced beyond a single 2 second moment to tell you to Z target. Otherwise you're thrown in there and can go collect your stuff and start the first dungeon in under 10 mins easily if you know what you're doing.
So fuck off with this faulty logic that if you can't jump straight into fighting bad guys within 30 seconds the game is shit and didn't age well

[Anonymous No.7295025]

>>7295010
>roll, poke enemy in the butt, move to next enemy
>literally just keep at it until eventually you poke the most important butt and you win
you don't even know what a good game is zoombot

[Anonymous No.7295034]

>>7295019
>but if you're after gameplay Dark Souls is where its at.

[Anonymous No.7295035]

>>7295025
hahahaha fucking ootfags filtered by souls

[Anonymous No.7295045]

>>7295016

You laugh at something like Darksiders 2, but once you realize that the gun can cancel almost everything and you can combo almost anything into anything else, the game gets pretty darn fun. Some fucking superb art direction in that game too.

[Anonymous No.7295047]

>>7294910
harps on OOT for its controls, mentions playing re4 which literally uses tank controls in a 3d space.your opinions are retarded anon.

[Anonymous No.7295057]

>>7295045
quick aside question, original Darksiders 2 or the remaster as the preferred option?

[Anonymous No.7295059]

>>7295047

RE4 controls fine, it's not my fault you're shit at the game.

[Anonymous No.7295071]

>>7295021
>You've been nothing but disingenuous this entire time
You're making claims about games you've never even beat. Probably never played either. You're defending long intros and tutorials for gods sake. Wake up to yourself.

[Anonymous No.7295080]

>>7295057

Remaster has some small changes to the balance like making sure DLC weapons are level appropriate. Apart from that, it plays almost exactly the same.

Graphics are definitely different, it's really up to you whether you prefer the newer lighting. It's the only version you can buy on modern stores. Framerates will be slightly lower but its not like the game is taxing on any modern hardware.

[Anonymous No.7295086]

>>7295059
kek that's what you gleaned from what I said? retarded anons gonna retard

[Anonymous No.7295087]

>>7293985
Fun is just a buzzword when you can't actually think of any real reasons as to why the game is good, don't use it.

Either way, being amused or entertained with something and being immersed are not the same thing.

[Anonymous No.7295127]

>>7295071
>You're defending long intros and tutorials
And there you go again, more disingenuous bullshit. I can see you're not actually interested in talking, just baiting and jerking off your two fave games.

[Anonymous No.7295140]

>>7294990
Blade of Darkness was really good too

[Anonymous No.7295157]

>>7295087
>fun is a buzzword
ladies and gentlemen: this is your brain on 4chan

[Anonymous No.7295178]

>>7294000
you gotta try some radomizer play - so fun no tutorials, changes up the order of the game, makes you think about what items open up what areas... it's a blast.

[Anonymous No.7295185]

>>7295127
I listed 3 well designed games originally from different consoles. From the start you said a games intro does not take away from it in anyway and that OoT was so complex it required you spend 10mins on getting your sword and board. You also talked downed down contra and wonder boy despite never playing them.

[Anonymous No.7295239]

It is a masterpiece, in game design. Of course the graphics and the controls have aged. But you're hard pressed to find a game with better pacing, expansiveness, and content than OOT.

[Anonymous No.7295273]

Link to the Past was better

[Anonymous No.7295334]

>>7295273
No

[Anonymous No.7295341]

>>7294916
>Half Life
>tutorial
underage

[Anonymous No.7295362]

>>7294076
>Ocarina your start are the first 3 dungeons as child link
I don't get it.
How is the entire child link section of the game, which lasts easily four or so hours, still the "beginning"?

[Anonymous No.7295402]

>>7295334
yes fren

[Anonymous No.7295417]

>>7295273
Agreed

[Anonymous No.7295450]

>>7295273
this.

[Anonymous No.7295464]

>>7295362
The game is like 30 hours long, its clearly a beginning part.

[Anonymous No.7295487]

>>7295362
But it is, you only learn about the sages , the real dungeons and the six medallions after the three levels and only as adult link you get epona and some freedom to roam around and do sidequests and go back and forth time. The first three levels are like a long intro to the world without you accomplishing anything too relevant.

>>7295464
yeah, theres 7 temples plus sidequest for key items you need for them after that

[Anonymous No.7295546]

>>7294683
this is all i feel. ocarina of time blew my fucking mind when i first saw it. i've played, 100% it multiple times, but it's just not the greatest game ever made. is it top 5 or even 3 for N64? yes. Not top 5 of all time.

[Anonymous No.7295560]

>>7295546
Being top 5 of the n64 is still worse than top 100 on NES or Genesis.

[Anonymous No.7295564]

>>7295560
>or Genesis

[Anonymous No.7295572]

>>7295273
Nah, that game was pretty bland in a lot of ways and just feels like the blueprints for every Zelda formula game until BoTW. Even Link's Awakening did 2D Zelda better.

[Anonymous No.7295583]

>>7293960
No matter how many threads you make and how much you whine, OoT will never not have the near universal critical acclaim it achieved when it released. You will never undo its legacy. You will never change the minds of the millions of people who enjoyed it and continue to think highly of it. Maybe one day you will grow out of your toddler mindset that says people aren't allowed to like things that you don't like.

[Anonymous No.7296430]

>>7294683
yeah this is all true
>also MM is still better.
based