/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.7266013]

When will there be a true replacement for CRT?
At what point will modern display tech be so robust it can 100% accurately recreate every aspect of a CRT? (Besides the curve I suppose, but Hell, who knows)
I want to play some old shit and it pisses me off my only CRT is dogshit, all the ones I've managed to see are somehow way worse than mine being mostly gigantic projection ones that really suck. Or the occasional decent one that some melee faggot wants 800 bucks for fuck that.

I refuse to put 500 dollars down on a TV from the 90s just to play retro games properly.

[Anonymous No.7266017]

Any modern lcd is better than a crt for retro games, CRT shaders exist

[Anonymous No.7266028]

>>7266017
All the shaders I've tried just don't look right. Especially side by side with my current CRT; mind you, I'm sure the shaders are trying to emulate the exact higher end CRTs I'm chasing, but there's core visual aspects that are just not there regardless that are a part of every CRT. I'd have a tough time putting them into words but if you've watched a CRT shader side by side with a real CRT it's immediately apparent.

[Anonymous No.7266121]

>>7266013
Not in your lifetime

[Anonymous No.7266129]

[Anonymous No.7266151]

>>7266017
shaders cannot replicate interlacing

[Anonymous No.7266152]

>>7266151
And that's a good thing!

[Anonymous No.7266154]

>>7266152
the image looks flat without a headache inducing microwobble.

[Anonymous No.7266156]

>>7266154
Yeah I mean for preservations sake it's definitely important we're able to achieve that. I'm wondering what hz and tech would be necessary for it. Super duper high hz like 240+? MicroLED? Much to think about

[Anonymous No.7266202]

>>7266151
Thats a good thing!

[Anonymous No.7266401]

>>7266151
>zoomers cannot replicate human intelligence
True. Replicating interlaceing, on the other hand, is trivial.

[Anonymous No.7266410]

>>7266028
Have you considered the possibility that the purpose of said shaders is provide the best visual fidelity for retro games without the downsides of actual CRTs? They're meant for beauty, not accuracy.

[Anonymous No.7266467]

>>7266129
Holy shit I think I had that exact TV when I was a kid.

[Anonymous No.7266504]

>>7266013
MicroLCD/OLED and a damn good shader (better than what we have today by a longshot). Most of the shaders I see look like shitty filters. We need something that actually physically simulates the pixel and it's affects on the adjacent pixels depending on it's color/brightness and the adjacent pixels color/brightness. Assuming the 4:3 cropped picture inside an obviously 16:9 screen doesn't bother you. I doubt they'll ever make 4:3 OLED or MicroLCDs unless the arthouse film snobs who shoot their films in 4:3 start making enough waves to warrant one.

[Anonymous No.7266572]

>>7266504
Exactly the thing I'm thinking of.
There's just nothing that properly captures that "glow" that bright colors have, the bleed of the pixels, that phosphor look.

[Anonymous No.7266587]

Imagine thinking it's hard to find a crt

[Anonymous No.7266594]

>Any modern lcd is better than a crt for retro games, CRT shaders exist

[Anonymous No.7266596]

>>7266587
>Bro just walk into the trinitron store they got them for like 20 bucks :)

[Anonymous No.7266606]

>>7266596
I just got another insanely good model for 5 dollars. If you think sonys are the only good models. You are truly lost.

[Anonymous No.7266617]

>>7266504
Have you tried not using shit shaders?

[Anonymous No.7266625]

>>7266606
I was naming an example. Where I live there's no good ones for sale and I know because I've checked everywhere.
I'm not about to scout every garage sale for 3 years straight either to find a decent deal on a decent set.

[Anonymous No.7266672]

>>7266017
>OP is clearly talking about a TV that can play retro games properly, i.e. on original hardware
>emufag suggests emufag solution
Every time.

[Anonymous No.7266675]

>>7266672
Don't shoot the messenger, there's no point in playing on the original hardware when emulation exists.

[Anonymous No.7266758]

input lag? more like SHITPUT CUM

[Anonymous No.7266831]

>>7266587
imagine thinking someone incapable of easily finding a crt is capable of thinking

[Anonymous No.7266837]

>>7266625
Do an expanded area search on Craigslist for TV

[Anonymous No.7267435]

>>7266017
>>7266028
>>7266410
The physics of an electron beam on phosphorous coated glass and an array of self illuminated crystals/diodes behind plastic are too different for the two to look interchangeable for the foreseeable future.

[Anonymous No.7267442]

>>7266587
This depends entirely on where you live. Places with more recycling and electronics depots have very few CRTs.

[Anonymous No.7267448]

>>7266675
Hardware is half of the hobby.

[Anonymous No.7268489]

>>7266675
Wouldn't waste a bullet on a brain damaged parrot

[Anonymous No.7268497]

>>7266675
This must be a troll. I refuse to believe there could anyone legit be this dumb.

[Anonymous No.7268560]

>>7267435
Yes, but my question is still, do we have any idea the sorts of things that it would take for that?
Like how they were able to recreate to an extent the beam by using some feature on super high hz monitors.

[Anonymous No.7268594]

>>7268560
You's have to put a glass surface on offset rows of high power microLEDs. Pic related shows a good example of the offset.

[Anonymous No.7268758]

>>7267442

[Anonymous No.7268932]

>>7266013
>When will there be a true replacement for CRT?
Never.
The closest you'll likely get in your lifetime is an 8k LCD with a CRT shader.
>but emulation bad >:(
Deal with it.

[Anonymous No.7268942]

>>7268497
>>7268489
>>7267448
Stop hoarding trash

[Anonymous No.7269018]

>>7268942
>stop being not-poor

[Anonymous No.7269039]

>>7268942
no u

[Anonymous No.7270306]

>>7266013
microLED could do it. The resolution is high enough that you effectively can reproduce the appearance of the individual phosphors of an equivalent size SD CRT television. But a complete simulation would work IF (and its a big if) they can drive the display to toggle each pixel in succession to simulate the raster scan of an electron gun. The difficulty is doing that would require a fuck ton of current and I doubt any manufacturer would care to implement the feature. But if it happened to work then suddenly even light guns could be compatible again.

[Anonymous No.7270334]

>>7268932
I wouldn't be so sure. Remember the resurgence of polaroid by impossible? they found an abandoned factory and basically were able to replicate the film from what remained. Im sure theres at least one factory out there that has the resources of producing aftermarket crts. sure there would need to be chemists and technicians but the same could be said about impossible.

[Anonymous No.7270335]

>>7268942
Stop being a useless waste of oxygen lmao

[Anonymous No.7270354]

>>7266017
>noticeable input lag
>games looks like shit unless you invest in an upscaler
>black bars on both side due to 4:3 ratio, leading to future burn-in
Yeah, I think I'll stick to the CRT thanks.

[Anonymous No.7271231]

>>7270354
>black bars on both side due to 4:3 ratio, leading to future burn-in
>burn-in
I don't think that word means what you think it means.

[Anonymous No.7271350]

>>7270334
The problem is CRT manufacturing is a business of scale. It's an expensive complex process so a small run for niche enthusiasts means each one would cost several grand. And there's no guarantee it would even be a great TV since by the early 2000s several decades worth of expensive R&D and trade secrets allowed for Sony, JVC, Toshiba, etc to sell top tech.

I think what could happen on the hobbyist level though is a custom PCB, neckboard, and chassis that could drive any tube that you drop in. That way as long as the bare tube is good it could be salvaged and used with whatever inputs and shit with no mods or anything.

[Anonymous No.7271443]

>>7266013
I expect crts to come back some time

[Anonymous No.7271681]

>>7270306
The concept is sound but your understanding of electronics isn't. It doesn't take more current to turn an LED on/off quickly than to leave it on. And there's no need for a manufacturer to offer this. People make their own LCD controllers all the time. All that's needed is the panel, which are insanely expensive right now.

[Anonymous No.7271716]

Instead of spending $4k on some worthless piece of shit pulled from African "recycle" center, get a 10x larger OLED for 1/2 the price. Don't be baited like a retard.

[Anonymous No.7271719]

>>7271716
Brother a CRT costs 5 dollars. Kill yourself.

[Anonymous No.7271726]

>>7271719
Lamas were the best you could get back in the day.

[Anonymous No.7271732]

>>7271726
>hurrrr rr you need a pvm

[Anonymous No.7271741]

>>7266017
This has to be bait. Shaders are dogshit and light gun games exist. No one man can be this retarded. How does it feel to bring the Earth's average IQ down 10 points?

[Anonymous No.7271746]

>>7271732
BM is what to look for

[Anonymous No.7271747]

>>7266013
I wish they'd make a replacement alright, replace my old one with a new one. Same CRT tech but newer and better

[Anonymous No.7271881]

>>7266617
They're all shit. At least the ones I've seen posted on here.

[Anonymous No.7271909]

>When will there be a true replacement for CRT?
MicroLED. Capable of simulating a CRT so well you probably couldn't tell the difference without a high speed camera. Coming in about a decade.

[Anonymous No.7272040]

>>7270354
>he thinks unlit pixels can burn-in
I knew you people were stupid but this just takes the cake

[Anonymous No.7272389]

>>7271231
>>7272040
Well I have two dark shadows in the corners of my LG LCD tv and I can only assume its because I watch a lot of 4:3 shows. If it's not burn-in, please tell me what exactly is wrong.

[Anonymous No.7272418]

OLED displays imo. They have the deep blacks like CRTs do.

[Anonymous No.7272432]

>>7271881
Explain why they're shit

[Anonymous No.7272590]

>>7271726
>Lamas
That's not how you spell Eizo. Not how you spell iiyama either. Faggot.

[Anonymous No.7272687]

>>7270354
IPS doesn't burn in or out.

[Anonymous No.7273813]

>>7271681
Wouldn't it take more current to do it quickly in succession though? Turning them all on at once for 1/60 of a second is one thing. It's another thing entirely to treat each LED individually across the entire panel all within 1/60 second. That's lightning fast. And if you want to simulate phosphor decay in the process that's another layer of complexity.

I'm talking mostly in terms of CRT simulation. Yes, manufacturers have no need to offer this but if the goal was to get a flat panel to perfectly replace a CRT then this is what would have to be done since even if you get the look right you still won't have lightgun compatibility with a traditional sample and hold system.

[Anonymous No.7274195]

>>7273813
We already have a technology that can manage this. It's not an issue for LCDs. Nor is it for CRTs, which could draw a similar amount of pixels in a second as your average 1080P60 LCD. Computers can render amazingly complicated graphics in times so short you can make video games. It isn't as big a deal as you think it is, and it'll be even less so in the future when computers will be strictly faster.

[Anonymous No.7274207]

>>7270354
Are you retarded anon? And a retro tink is $90 right now on Amazon. The input lag on a modern IPS or OLED is less than a CRT. There’s advantages to crt sure but it’s obvious you don’t understand them.

[Anonymous No.7274214]

>>7274207
>The input lag on a modern IPS or OLED is less than a CRT.
Literally false unless you run them at >240FPS

[Anonymous No.7274217]

>>7272687
>>7274207
Can you guys not read? We're talking about LCDs, not OLEDs or IPS monitors.

[Anonymous No.7274219]

>>7274214
Do you not realize how much input lag most CRTs have? Why do you think you only see esports pros playing on high end LCDs. Also I find it really unlikely even if you have a shit LED that you notice 16ms of input lag.

[Anonymous No.7274240]

>>7266028
>Especially side by side with my current CRT
And? There are a whole bunch of different types of CRT, just because it doesn't look like yours doesn't mean they're not simulating a CRT correctly...

[Anonymous No.7274265]

>>7274219
>Do you not realize how much input lag most CRTs have?
Zero miliseconds.
>Why do you think you only see esports pros playing on high end LCDs.
Because CRTs haven't been made for more than a decade.

[Anonymous No.7274386]

>>7274219
t. Retard

[Anonymous No.7275186]

>>7273813
Turning something on/off quickly is called pulse width modulation and is literally what is used in lighting to dim LEDs and in PSUs to reduce power. Also basic physics. Power doesn't magically disappear when it's not being converted into light.

1/60 second isn't anywhere near "lightning fast". 320*240*60 times a second isn't even anywhere near "lightning fast". You could drive this with a $1 MCU. As is evident by all those millions of people driving 320x240 displays using $1 MCUs. If your autism (or a technical requirement) demanded simulated phosphor decay you stick a cap on each led. This is all trivial shit that literal children deal with every day.

To do what you want, the thing you need first and foremost is a panel. These don't exist at any sort of reasonable price and are very difficult to make. I suspect you've never soldered anything and if you have are deathly afraid of SMD. Now imagine soldering a quarter of a million SMD LEDs into a 1 square foot area. Plus all the supporting circuitry. That's what's missing here. Not the ability to turn an LED on/of 60 times a second. Second, you need something to interface the panel to whatever is driving it. You can't even take a stab at this until you have the panel.

You're talking in terms of hypothetical what ifs when you don't even understand the basics. It's always great to have people trying to come up with new ideas but it's not really possible when they don't understand the subject. What you want already exists. It just costs several million dollars. It won't be cost competitive with a curb side CRT any time time. And this is really the root of the issue. Despite the constant wailing and gnashing of teeth of those hundreds of tards in the world who can't get hold of an old TV there simply isn't a major market/demand for a CRT replacement. If there's any legit need for a CRT replacement it's to replace failing arcade hardware. No one gives a fuck about a few lazy retarded kids

[Anonymous No.7275228]

>>7266013

[Anonymous No.7275908]

>>7271741
CRT shaders are excellent actually, what in particular have you tried? You can play light gun games in emuvr.

[Anonymous No.7275910]

>>7274265
>Zero miliseconds.
embarrassing retard

[Anonymous No.7275919]

>>7275228
>Computer create the average teen male bedroom of the mid 1990s
>Replace consumer CRT with a PVM
>Add a mother character with the appearance of Diana Troi
>Age her up by 15 years
>Give her incestuous inclinations
>Add a father character away on business with the appearance of William Riker
>Include a high quality camera for the time period in the room
>Turn off safety protocols

[Anonymous No.7276457]

>>7275908
Imagine thinking I'd want to emulate my light gun games. Like yeah, I just have Duck Hunt, Super Scope 6, and Virtua Cop on my shelf for show, I just emulate them lol. Fucking retarded. As for CRT shaders I haven't tried any because I've seen the ones other people use and they can't replicate the actual look of a CRT. They look like dog shit compared to the real deal and will never stack up compared to an actual CRT.

[Anonymous No.7276507]

>>7276457
so you'd dismiss crt shaders without doing any research on them?
such narrow mindedness, well expected of a purist fag though

[Anonymous No.7276561]

>>7276507
Research? What fucking research needs to be done you mongoloid? Every instance I've seen of CRT shaders being used has never looked as good as the actual thing. There's genuinely no point in jumping through all those hoops to get an ultimately inferior experience when you can get a regular CRT that supports light gun games, cuts input lag, and actually looks good and not like imitation horse shit natively. No setup or anything, just plug it in and it's already done. It isn't narrow-mindedness ut's knowing what the fuck I'm talking about, dumb emufag.

[Anonymous No.7276645]

Modern OLED is already nearly 1:1 to CRT. The differences are in display quality.

[Anonymous No.7276659]

>>7266013
Never. Flat panels have no depth to them. They are paper flat like a glossy magazine page.

[Anonymous No.7276729]

>>7276561
you obviously haven't seen much judging from your account

[Anonymous No.7276771]

CRT-Lottes looks great imo

[Anonymous No.7276785]

>>7276729
I've seen and know enough to understand that a shader is incapable of reproducing actual interlaced. Please kill yourself.

[Anonymous No.7276801]

>>7275910
They do. They add zero miliseconds of lag to the standard amount you have at 60Hz, which is about 8.3ms. No retro game runs faster than 60FPS, so this is as low as you will ever get. LCDs are slower.

[Anonymous No.7276838]

>>7266013
There was something called surface conduction electron emission displays, that probably fits the bill but was stillborn.
Google SED displays.

[Anonymous No.7276848]

>>7276801
Why do you even argue about this shit when you don't understand it? The 8.3ms bullshit is LCD/emufag cope. As soon as you accept it as "reality" you've already lost.

[Anonymous No.7276852]

>>7276848
Anon, input lag depends on refresh rate.

[Anonymous No.7277495]

>>7276507
Shaders aren't going to get lightguns functional again. Sure, a hypothetical awesome shader on an OLED could get you 90% of the way to CRT irrelevance but without lightguns you don't have a "true replacement" for CRT.

[Anonymous No.7277824]

>>7277495
https://www.sindenlightgun.com/