/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.7258972]

Would the Saturn have been a success outside of Japan if it weren't for him?

[Anonymous No.7258987]

no

also it’s called the Master System, cope

[Anonymous No.7259046]

>>7258972
IMO not. maybe it would have fared a little better, but it had way too many flaws and to most people it was basically "PS/N64, but worse". Sega already shot itself in the foot with 32x, sega cd, high launch price for saturn, canceling sonic xtreme, and so on. and while Stolar was wrong about FFVII, its clear that most Japan-oriented titles would probably not fare well in the US, especially the 2D ones.

[Anonymous No.7259061]

>let's release a gamepad with less button than the previous gamepad
what were they thinking?

[Anonymous No.7259076]

>>7258972
Stolar was right in killing the Shiturn so that extra manpower and budget could be focused on the superior Dreamcast instead, although Sega fucked up there as well by going with the Katana design instead of Stolar's Black Belt.

[Anonymous No.7259078]

The library was too bad, it was still going to lose to FF7

[Anonymous No.7259176]

Here's how the Saturn can still win

[Anonymous No.7259180]

>>7258972
Did you post the wrong image ?

[Anonymous No.7259183]

>>7258972
Black people were to blame for the Saturn failing.

[Anonymous No.7259201]

>>7259183
huh?

[Anonymous No.7259215]

>>7259201
Black people hate Japan ever since they let Yasuke die. Also, they hate RPGs

[Anonymous No.7259229]

>>7258972
It wouldn't have a pissed off as many people as it did and it would have made the transition to Dreamcast somewhat smoother. Instead this shithead couldn't shut his mouth and do the bare minimum that is to damage control, instead he openly trashed it and cancelled everything outside of Japan that was planned for late 1997-1999. Funny how SEGA always wanted to make sure the Genesis had more games than the SNES, but now apparently no games is the best policy.
Seriously fuck this guy

[Anonymous No.7259234]

>>7258972
Get that piece of shit disc-based console out of my sight

[Anonymous No.7259241]

>>7259234
>Super Nintendo CD never materialized
>TurboDUO pretty much didn't exist
>Somehow manages to fuck up the SEGA CD as the lone player on the market
Uhhh Tom????

[Anonymous No.7259274]

>>7259241
CDs were not our future.

[Anonymous No.7259281]

>>7259274
Imagine SEGA in 1997-1998 trying to make games with 32X sized imited cartridges, Jesus christ what shit show.

[Anonymous No.7259285]

>>7259274
god i wish how CDs were never a thing and cartridges stayed the only form of game distribution and we still got all the games that the CD generation offered, but the games industry just developed slower until the technology caught up to where that was feasible, so like 3rd and 4th generations of consoles just ended up lasting much longer and we didnt get 5th gen till sometime in the late 2000s

[Anonymous No.7259297]

>>7258972
He joined in 1996, but the battle was already lost by then in the West. For once, Sega of Japan did it better than Sega of America.

[Anonymous No.7259309]

>>7259297
Gotta hand it to Panasonic too, they did a pretty good job in Japan . Imagine if the CPU wasn't such a piece of shit so they games were not forced to run in 10 fps.

[Anonymous No.7259324]

>>7259229
>nooooo not my animerino games and softcore porn FMVs!!!

Stolar did the humane thing by shooting it.

[Anonymous No.7259361]

>>7259324
>Dead or Alive
>Deep Fear
>K-1 Fighting Illusion
>ThunderForce 4
>RayStorm
>2D anime games
Ok, Bernie

[Anonymous No.7259382]

>>7259361
>shitty Virtual Fighter knockoff
>shitty Resident Evil knockoff
>literally who
>a fucking Genesis port
>a game that runs better on PSX
>weebshit

Thank god you weren't in charge back then.

[Anonymous No.7259389]

>>7259229
>SEGA sells saturn at a loss
>they need to make up the difference with software sales
>sit with no western software sales 1997-1999 due to there being no software
when will you guys realise this guy was a plant who was dispatched to knockout sega?

[Anonymous No.7259391]

>>7258972
No, Bernie just put it out of its mysery. The dumbass gooks are at fault for fucking up the launch and wasting resources on shit like the 32X and Nomad.

[Anonymous No.7259397]

>>7259389
That was the problem, none of the games were selling to make up for the loss on hardware manufacturing costs.

[Anonymous No.7259402]

>>7259397
>noooooo don't you understand muh sakura wars and muh grandia and muh other cringey weebshit would have saved the saturn if only they'd come out in murrka!!!!

t. delusional saturncuck weebophiles

[Anonymous No.7259405]

>>7259361
>Dead or Alive
this is bad i agree, but was this supposed to "save" Saturn? A fighting game also on PS1?
>ThunderForce 4
you mean 5? anyway, shmups were largely irrelevant in the West by that time for quite a while
>2D anime games
"Bernie stolar was wrong to not localize these games guys, they'd sell like FFVII, I swear!"

[Anonymous No.7259506]

>>7259402
>>7259405
I never claimed any of those would save Saturn, but it would have allowed for a smoother transition to the Dreamcast and wouldn't have tanked SEGAs credentials. People who owned the Saturn had nothing mid 1997-1999, you could read about the games you would never receive in magazines only annoying one further. Tons of people vowed not to buy a SEGA console again or at least wait for the PS2 and see what happens, why the fuck should I play Russian roulette with SEGA?
Say what you want about Nintendo, but they didn't pull the plug on the WiiU three years into the systems despite doing dogshit and leaving people with nothing. SEGA pulled the biggest scumbag shit ever and that's not taking into consideration the 32X some addon not their mainsystem.

[Anonymous No.7259516]

>>7259285
fuck you, cds were inevitable, games became bigger and needed that space not cost a fortune per unit, and no, despite meming about FMV BLOAT and the like games would still be pretty big for carts if you'd stripped it off.

[Anonymous No.7259549]

>>7258972
No. Sega of Japan was losing money on manufacturing the console, so they manufactured less to curb the losses. They simply did not have enough units to sell for the Saturn to become success. Bernie could've ported every single japanese title and it would not have mattered because Sega was adamant on not making more consoles.

And on hindsight the reason they did not port all titles is because the install base was so small, they would have over saturated the market and not sell enough of each game to recuperate the costs.

[Anonymous No.7259554]

>>7259506
Oh, and so what if they were multiplats more games are always better. Most people only owned one console a good game is good doesn't matter if it is on multiple platforms.
>NOOOOOOO
>THIS GAME GOT PORTED I NOLONGER ENJOY IT, I WILL SMASH MY ONLY GAMESCONSOLE I HAD TO BEG MY PARENTS OR CUT THE LAWN FOR
Yeah, things that never happened in 1996.

[Anonymous No.7259563]

>>7259506
>but it would have allowed for a smoother transition to the Dreamcast
maybe, but if thats the best that you could name, i dont think it'd make much of a difference (although it would still be better than nothing)
also in 99 saturn was p much dead in japan too

[Anonymous No.7259573]

>>7259516
Not really, actual game data sizes of 5th gen CD games are under 50mb, it's streamed music and FMVs that takes up most of a disc space which can be worked around with a sound processor and in-engine cutscenes.

[Anonymous No.7259636]

>>7259563
Yeah there was not much in Japan for 1999, but there was still some good games such as SF Alpha 3,D&D Collection etc. At least they got a proper continous stream of releases up to the Dreamcast and a bit later. Meanwhile in the West 1995-1997, jump to 9/9/9 PUREASE BUY THE DOREAMCASTU NOW. Fuck off SEGA

[Anonymous No.7259738]

>>7259636
Sega should've coasted on Genesis sales in the west, never released the Saturn there, and then did a worldwide release of the Dreamcast. They'd probably never have crashed.

[Anonymous No.7259746]

>>7259573
neneneneneneh, i got my Sonic CD JP music, we are in a good future

[Anonymous No.7259774]

>>7259405
Nothing would "save" Saturn, but they couldn't drop it.
>2D anime games
they still would've sold, Panzer Dragoon Saga would've sold a lot probably.
>>7259636
see. he's right.
also releasing the DC in NA a few months before PS2 released (anywhere) is a BIG mistake.
Saturn should've been on life support in NA till 99 so they could beef up DC and give it a DVD drive. March 2000 simultaneous release worldwide, with JSR and all the games the real DC had up till then, drop the Saturn the same month, no pissed off people swearing off SEGA for good. SEGA would've still probably had to exit the market, but in like 2003-4 and much more gracefully.

[Anonymous No.7259784]

>>7259774
>Panzer Dragoon Saga would've sold a lot probably.
i dont get you, wasnt it released in US in 1998?

[Anonymous No.7259827]

>>7259215
99% of black people don't know who Yasuke is.

[Anonymous No.7259886]

>>7259784
It should have been reworked for the Dreamcast

[Anonymous No.7259890]

>>7259774
>Saturn should've been on life support in NA
Saturn was already on life support in 98 in Japan. Yes, plenty of games came out, but they just stopped making the hardware in big enough numbers. Manufacturing stopped around 1998 March (the last units sold, the Skeleton units, all have board dates of 1998 feb/march).

>so they could beef up DC and give it a DVD drive.
Bernie asked Sega to put dual analog controller, built-in modem, and a DVD drive into the Dreamcast. Sega told them they could only afford one, Bernie chose the modem.
Sega also wanted it to sell for $250 but Bernie announced it for $200 against Sega's wishes, knowing they were about to fire him anyway.

>>7259784
PD Saga in the USA had maybe 12k units made in total during two production runs, all of which immediately sold out. Sega did not put any faith towards it because it was a huge flop in japan. You can buy the japanese version for like $10 on ebay.

[Anonymous No.7259894]

>>7258972
The Saturn's failure rests entirely on the shoulders of Sega Japan.

[Anonymous No.7259898]

It came out at the wrong time with the wrong price.

[Anonymous No.7259925]

>>7259890
>Bernie chose the modem
Worst choice when you think about it. The viability of the modem depends on the country,state hell even city you live in. Cheap separate modems for the ones interested in online would have fared better. OG XBOX was the first console released that could genuinely justify having a built in network adapter given the broadband boom of 2001-2002

[Anonymous No.7259927]

>>7259890
>PD Saga in the USA had maybe 12k units made in total during two production runs, all of which immediately sold out. Sega did not put any faith towards it because it was a huge flop in japan. You can buy the japanese version for like $10 on ebay.
japan is fucking weird. they didnt like sonic on MD too, afaik

[Anonymous No.7259943]

>>7259927
Seaman was the best selling Dreamcast game in Japan.

[Anonymous No.7259967]

>>7259925
The modem is what gave the DC unique capabilities for the time. DVD and dual analog just would've made it Playstation 1.8..

[Anonymous No.7260065]

>>7258987
>no

Bernie didn't replace Tom Kalinske until 1997? The Saturn was already fucked before Sega showed up. Bernie Stolar was sent by Sony to pull the plug and ti kill the Dreamccast.

[Anonymous No.7260086]

>>7258987
>no

Bernie didn't replace Tom Kalinske until 1997? The Saturn was already fucked before Bernie Stolar was sent by Sony to pull the plug on the Saturn and to kill the Dreamccast.

[Anonymous No.7260115]

>>7259967
Barely anyone I knew used it because dial up was expensive here. If you were lucky you had a local provider a bit unfortunate only a regional provider, if you were truly Ill fortuned you were forced to do a what was know as a national call. By the time you start hitting 2001-2003 everyone including their grandmother own some shitty Dell PC and ADSL as the government subsidized PC adoption. Dial up depended very much on where you lived

[Anonymous No.7260573]

>>7259774
JP November 1998 as the world wide launch might have been what they need, but I doubt they could make the manufacturing sector shit out that many Dreamcast units. Hell wasn't the Japanese launch crippled due to low stock?

[Anonymous No.7260927]

>>7258972
It still probably would have been 3rd place, but it wouldn't have been as disastrous I think. Having no products to sell for 2.5 years really hurt Sega going into the Dreamcast.

Really to save the Saturn without changing the hardware you need to fix the launch, and then fix the software problem in the US.

[Anonymous No.7261689]

>>7258987
Master system did great in south america. Shitturn did shit no matter where it was solod.

[Anonymous No.7261693]

>>7259215
Stop taking estrogen white boy.

[Anonymous No.7261820]

>>7259925
>Worst choice when you think about it.
How can you say this when you never even went online with a dreamcast? One of the few good calls Bernie made.

[Anonymous No.7261826]

>>7260115
>Barely anyone I knew used it because dial up was expensive here.
You could only use one provider in my country to use Dreamcast internet. I was sad at first but then learnt you could just get boot disk to work around this and use any provider.

[Anonymous No.7261853]

>>7261820
Bernie was right about everything though. Inclusion of voodoo GPU, Motorola PowerPC, and 3DFX would give the dreamcast a massive library in the west. Sure PowerVR was a bit more powerful and cheaper, but it was not a very well known architecture at the time. They should've made the development software open source too. Dreamcast's library sucks.

[Anonymous No.7261885]

>>7261853
>Dreamcast's library sucks.
Dreamcast library holds up today dude. Better than Gamecube and I'd say even xbox. Once I had a Dreamcast I never went back to my shitty 64.

[Anonymous No.7261918]

>>7261885
>Better than Gamecube
I don't quite agree. There's nothing comparable to SW Rogue Leader on the DC.
>even xbox
Now that's delusional.

[Anonymous No.7261952]

>>7258972
The Saturn was already dead when Bernie took over, you idiot. Please read a book.
Bernie was hired for a successful Dreamcast launch, and he succeeded.

[Anonymous No.7262020]

>>7261918
>There's nothing comparable to SW Rogue Leader
I do prefer Space Harrier but Rogue Leader wasn't a rail shooter.

I bought Rogue leader for around $10 which was cheap so I figured it would be very meh. Was pleasantly surprised with it and my god that final level took me ages to finish.
>Now that's delusional.
That was a bit of a stretch but I have a soft spot for Dreamcast. Dreamcast does have better arcade games but overall xbox probably takes it thanks to titles like GTA, Chaos Theory, Outrun 2.

[Anonymous No.7262053]

>>7262020
>Dreamcast does have better arcade games
I'm really not a fan of arcade games. Makes sense how arcade fans prefer the DC though.

[Anonymous No.7262081]

>>7261853
You seriously think that would of made a difference? It's not like easy to program for won that generation anyway, just look how complex the PS2 is.

[Anonymous No.7262103]

>>7262081
Sony secured deals with reliable game studios and PS2 was launched with strong exclusive titles. Later on, Sony licensed the Renderware SDK which simplified the architecture's workings too and made GTA games possible. GTA is the reason PS2 was crazy sucessful. Sony ran out of luck with their PS3 though.

[Anonymous No.7262114]

>>7259516
Nah carta would just get bigger
See: ssd

[Anonymous No.7262137]

>>7259285
>>7262114
The death of carts was inevitable. If CD didn't become a thing modern consoles would be using magnetic disks, which suck more than CDs. And, SSD works nothing like game carts. SSD is simply a storage device which had no advantage to optical drive other than it's faster. OTOH game carts could be given custom PCBs and features. To sum it up, game carts are a computer board while SSD is just a big SD Card.

[Anonymous No.7262189]

>>7262103
Dreamcast already supported windows CE libraries for easier development.

https://segaretro.org/Windows_CE

[Anonymous No.7262307]

>>7262189
Nope. It wasn't even a OS back then.
>The limited adoption of Windows CE is often blamed on console programmers lacking the experience to deal with the OS, and a lack of advantages that Windows CE offered over the competition.

[Anonymous No.7262313]

>>7262307
*a popular OS

[Anonymous No.7262625]

>Everyone wants 3D Sonic
>Sonic The Fighters released 1996 in the arcades
>It was never ported to Saturn
Why? God knows

[Anonymous No.7262759]

>>7259241
SoJ fucked him over at every step; they never sent a demo unit, SoA had to basically ziptie a custom board to a CD-ROM and use that for presentations; the documentation for developing on the SCD arrived incomplete, and parts of it were in Japanese.
And then there were the technical issues. The production version of the SCD used a music-player grade drive, instead of a CD-ROM grade one, so it was slow as shit and prone to malfunctions. And the Mega Drive itself had a bunch of design flaws, which caused the Sega CD to end up being more expensive than it should've been, and less powerful than it could have been.
As a bonus, a lot of consumers had unrealistic expectations regarding CD movies. Everybody wanted FMV games, up to the point they actually got them, and they sucked.

[Anonymous No.7262995]

>>7262759
Still doesn't explain why they blew their entire load on INXS,Marky Mark and KrisKross.
Throw money at KONAMI and CAPCOM they could have probably had Rondo of Blood MEGA CD and some CAPCOM Megaman CD game. Gameplay and the FMV's to back them

[Anonymous No.7263759]

>>7262995
SoA tried to market it with celebrity names. For some reason, they thought the "more bigger games" wouldn't have attracted the public.
There's also the space issue. When you have 650 MB at your disposal, that's a shitload more than what was previously available. The issue is that some avenues to filling that space are more difficult than others. Cranking out several hundred MB of game code with late-80s/early-90s dev tools took a shitload of time, and back then project turn-over was much shorter. Uncompressed music was nice, but it's not exactly a wow factor. You can't screenshot a soundtrack. So they went with visuals and cutscenes (and FMVs). It just so happens that they simply weren't as good as the buyers had hoped (maybe unrealistically).

[Anonymous No.7263779]

>>7262625
Could it be becuase Sonic Fighters sucked dick?

[Anonymous No.7263795]

>>7263759
It is pretty sad that the games which demonstrate the capabilities of the MEGA CD are not even SEGA developed. Silpheed,Shin Megami Tensei and Night Striker all make use of the new CPU with rotational effects.

[Anonymous No.7263840]

>>7261853
A PPC + 3dfx powered Dreamcast would've cost twice as much for half the performance. The PowerVR they used was just extremely efficient and needed very little power/memory to work very fast. It's why they ended up as the de facto mobile GPU a few years later.

[Anonymous No.7263850]

>>7259061
The gamecube did as well

[Anonymous No.7263867]

>>7258972
If it weren't for Tom Kalinske, more like.

[Anonymous No.7263898]

>>7259391
SoA kikes commissioned 32X & Nomad.

[Anonymous No.7263906]

>>7263898
At the behest of Sega of Japan.

[Anonymous No.7263932]

>>7262189
Way too high-level overhead

[Anonymous No.7263946]

>>7263759
>You can't screenshot a soundtrack
you couldn't screenshot anything back then

[Anonymous No.7264307]

>>7261689
Saturn did well in japan

[Anonymous No.7264796]

>>7264307
>5-6 million units from 1994 to 1999
>doing well
You barely outsold the Nogames 64 there... congrats?

[Anonymous No.7264813]

If I did my dc can it play naomi games that did not get ported

[Anonymous No.7265724]

>>7263795
Thing is, that second CPU inside the Sega CD was part of the reason for its failure. It made it much more expensive than originally intended. They were forced to add a second CPU because of flaws in the MD architecture.

[Anonymous No.7267146]

>>7265724
The Mega CD connected on a data port that had no CPU interrupts. If they didn't add the second CPU, the Megadrive side would've had to poll it for data every once in a while and it would've been useless.

Instead they built a system where both systems run independently and you had this small window of 256k RAM to pass data back and forth between the two, and you had to build proper timing to read them back and forth or else your program imploded.
If the expansion port had an interrupt, none of this would have been necessary, and the system could've been twice as fast while half as hard to program or potentially much easier to build the hardware.

But then, the expansion port was meant for floppy drives. Literally. The service manuals even call it FLOPPY DRIVE PORT. Funny how the floppy drive never came out in the end...

[Anonymous No.7267186]

>>7258972
Was the Saturn a success?

[Anonymous No.7267267]

>>7267146
That's basically it. The Mega Drive was unsuitable for expansion, due to the way it was built (VDP and sound chip not directly linked to the cartridge or expansion ports, everything hypercentralized with the CPU having to do literally everything, half the video RAM it needed, not redesigning the amp circuitry after combining the YM2612 with the YM7101 in a single ASIC etc.)