/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.7199217]

Playing System Shock for the first time. Crazy how the genre has not progressed an inch since this game. What are your thoughts on this seminal masterpiece?
/system shock thread/

[Anonymous No.7199228]

Which genre are you talking about?

[Anonymous No.7199286]

With the mouse mod I honestly believe the system shock approach of having your inventory always be on screen and having a button that changes the cursor from inventory mode to shooting mode to genuinely be better than having an entirely separate screen for inventory. While it might take a little while to get used to you're able to quickly go in and out of inventory so fast it feels so much smoother.
It's also a real shame that every other shock game turned hacking into some minor minigame rather than actually being an essential part of the gameplay and story.

[Anonymous No.7199341]

>>7199217
Well I mean SS2 was already an improvement since it didn't control like ass and was actually fun to play outside of an appreciation of SS1 as a concept.

[Anonymous No.7199396]

>>7199228
I guess he means dungeon crawlers but I'd argue there are better games in that genre

[Anonymous No.7199689]

Im playing it with a controller. God help me.

Is the screen supposed to jitter when you turn around? Is that just a limitation or something on my end?

[Anonymous No.7199709]

>>7199217
>Where did YOU learn to fly?

[Anonymous No.7199726]

>>7199228
ImSims obviously.

System Shock 1 is an interactive masterpiece that got a lot right, that’s why it’s hard to innovate this very broad genre.

[Anonymous No.7199775]

>>7199341
admittedly SS1 really does need the control modernizations offered by the re-release but with those if blows SS2 out of the water. SS2's progression system ultimately bloats and obscures the clean and immersive game mechanics set forth by SS1

[Anonymous No.7199923]

game isn't that good, every level is a series of nonsensical corridors with enemy AI that just beeline towards you

[Anonymous No.7201620]

>>7199726
Except it's one of the worst immersive sims. Its awful music, abhorrent sound design, atrocious level design and abysmal enemy design actively work against any sort of immersion you could possibly get. Its control system is horrible even in extended edition, the game is chock full of absolutely useless equipment and abilities, monsters are not scary, Citadel Station is not fun to explore and its layout makes absolutely no sense, the story doesn't exist, combat is unsatisfactory and interactivity is pathetic. It has nothing to do with good immersive sim. There is fuck all you can do in this game. It doesn't have a system where you can solve problems through different means like all Deus Exes have. Literally every game in the genre is better than this piece of shit. System Shock doesn't do a single thing right. Combat is shit, exploration is shit, the game isn't scary, the story isn't engaging, Citadel Station is not believable, environment is not responsive, there are no multiple ways to get to a place most of the time. System Shock 2 on the other hand is an amazing game. There are multiple ways to reach locations, all abilities and items are useful, items and monsters have cool snippets of lore to them, level design makes sense, monsters are scary, music fits the atmosphere, story is interesting. Literally everything about SS2 is great and everything about SS1 is shit.

[Anonymous No.7201649]

>>7201620
Based.

[Anonymous No.7201835]

>>7199217
The respawn deck was a terrible concept for immersion in both SS1 and 2. Nothing takes me out of the moment more than respawning on the spot in real time like as if I had just put another quarter into the machine. I get that they wanted the play experience to be seamless but to me the suspension of disbelief that the player's journey ended when they died and having to restart is more immersive than the respawn mechanic. I also think it's antithetical to learning how to beat a part when you can literally just throw yourself at a problem without worrying about losing.

[Anonymous No.7201928]

>>7201620
That's amazing. You and fresh lobotomy patients have the same opinion on SS1.

System Shock isn't a perfect game and there are mechanical frustrations, but you are completely brain-dead and tasteless if you don't think System Shock isn't dripping with atmosphere and enjoyment. The actually cyberpunk color palette used, the acid-washed retro-futuristic design of the enemies and environment, and a pinch of Gen X edge. It is an extremely patent experience you could never get today. They aren't supposed to be horror games as much as they are supposed to be atmospheric - you know - immersive simulation. You're going on about Citadel Station not being believable in a pseudo-3D first person title from 1994. It somehow makes more sense in SS2? SS2 is amazing but not nearly as fantastical as the neon child of DOS gaming that is System Shock.
Once again you are a tasteless retard who can't enjoy shit unless it's >muh gritty

Bonus Jew fight:
Warren Spector > Ken Levine

[Anonymous No.7202838]

>>7201928
>System Shock isn't a perfect game and there are mechanical frustrations, but you are completely brain-dead and tasteless if you don't think System Shock isn't dripping with atmosphere and enjoyment.
Good thing I don't not think it isn't, but rather actually think it isn't.
>The actually cyberpunk color palette used,
Muh colors. Too bad they're on top of shit game that fails at everything pertaining to gameplay and level design. But I guess it has a nice colors so it's a mustahpiss.
> the acid-washed retro-futuristic design of the enemies and environment,
It's a maze, stop being pretentious.
>and a pinch of Gen X edge.
What the fuck does that even mean?
You try to steer attention away from all those shit designs System Shock has with a color palette of the game abd some vague collections of words that could mean anything or nothing at all. But the fact of the matter is that game faila at its core designs. It's not immersive, it's not much of a sim, combat is shit, music ruins atmosphere, the world is not interactive, its layout is retarded, exploring it is boring, enemies barely have any sound to them and they barely react to your attacks at all, enemy placement is random, game ia ugly as fuck and plays like shit. It's an extremely boring, uninspired experience I wish I never had.
>They aren't supposed to be horror games as much as they are supposed to be atmospheric
And it fails at that too
1/2

[Anonymous No.7202841]

>>7201928
>>7202838
2/2
>immersive simulation.
Again. System Shock 1 is not immersive, is not a sim, and is not an immersive sim.
"Its core, defining trait is the use of simulated systems that respond to a variety of player actions which, combined with a comparatively broad array of player abilities, allow the game to support varied and creative solutions to problems, as well as emergent gameplay beyond what has been explicitly designed by the developer."
It doesn't have any of that. It's not an immersive sim, it's a dungeon crawler, and a shit one. Just because SS2 adapted immersive sim design, doesn't retroactively make SS1 an immersive sim.
>It somehow makes more sense in SS2?
Yes, actually,level design in SS2 makes sense. It actually looks like a place where people work and live, and not only that, it's also fun to explore.
>Once again you are a tasteless retard who can't enjoy shit unless it's >muh gritty
At least it's not >muh cyan because that was the only argument for SS1 being good that you managed to think up.

[Anonymous No.7202847]

>>7199726
Not him, I love the hell out of SS1, but I think immersive sims progressed a lot, especially in emergent systems. Most of the level design has very little verticality, the character upgrades are totally linear and some of them aren't that interesting, and the hacking while fun and interesting, it's not as versatile as the hacking in SS2 and Deus Ex (by that I mean the hacking in those games is much more simple, but you can apply them to every computer, terminal, turret, etc, whereas in SS1 it's just an occasional separate minigame that rewards you with keycodes, voicelogs, etc)

[Anonymous No.7202963]

>>7199689
Controller must be rough but you do you. I also get a weird stutter when moving so it must be a limitation. I don't even notice it anymore though

[Anonymous No.7202970]

>>7201835
Yeah its a weird system. Honestly it would work better if you couldn't save and have the respawn to be deep in the level. That would ensure you play smart until you find the deck. The only punishment for dying is losing the equipment you used during the fight

[Anonymous No.7202973]

>>7201835
to be fair in SS2 it costs you nanites

[Anonymous No.7202998]

>>7202838
>It's a maze, stop being pretentious.
Confirmed for not playing past the first 2 levels.

[Anonymous No.7203018]

>>7199217
>Crazy how the genre has not progressed an inch since this game
Play the original Deus Ex and say that.
>What are your thoughts on this seminal masterpiece?
It's my favorite of the 2, but they're both good. Anything made by LGS is going to be gold.

>>7201928
>Warren Spector > Ken Levine
What made SS1 great was it came out at a time when the teams didn't have to compromise on any of their ideas. The only idea Spector shutdown was a terminal hacking minigame, because he thought the jump from being a 3d game to a text hacking thing would be too jarring. Everything else made it into the game. I think it's the only game were an overly ambitious team could add literally every single thing they wanted to.

[Anonymous No.7203070]

>>7199217
play thief and arx fatalis

[Anonymous No.7203215]

>>7202998
I actually played through 4 first levels, R level and a bit of 5th, thank you very much

[Anonymous No.7203240]

>>7203018
>The only idea Spector shutdown was a terminal hacking minigame, because he thought the jump from being a 3d game to a text hacking thing would be too jarring
How can one person be this wrong?
Is Spector actually retarded?

[Anonymous No.7203260]

>>7199217

did the remake come out yet? loved 2 but could never get into 1 too much jank/confusing maze maps

[Anonymous No.7203263]

>>7203215
For me the game really picked up after level 3. When I played those first 2 levels it felt like there was absolutely no rhyme or reason. I just assumed every single level was going to be a brightly lit hallways on a grid. When level 3 was pitch black and actually had an identifiable layout that's when I got hooked.

R-Level and Level 5 aren't really mazelike. I know R at least has a very wide obvious main hallway. Level 4 was a bonus area designed by someone who wasn't even on the team.

[Anonymous No.7203274]

>>7203240
He was right though. I've played other games that did it and they've all been shit.

>>7203260
It gets better after the few areas.

[Anonymous No.7203313]

>>7203274
>not liking console command hacking in vidya
It's the only good way to do it. I cringe when it's something like water pipes in bioshock, SS1's abstract 3D representation (doesn't CP2077 have something similar?) or just an omnipotent hacking tool that you just point at a device and the only "difficulty" comes from it taking some time and maybe there being a limited time to browse files like in original Deus Ex.
Human Revolution was passable I guess, certainly better than original Deus Ex or Bioshock, but nothing comes close to console commands tbqh. It doesn't even need to be particularly complex, it just has to be there.

[Anonymous No.7203318]

>>7201835
Yeah it also begs a question how the fuck did the mutants manage to wipe out everyone on the station.
I guess not activating those stations is a solution, although a shitty one.

[Anonymous No.7203323]

>>7199689
>Is the screen supposed to jitter when you turn around?
I guess that's a feature because this happened to me too. This game will kill your eyes.

[Anonymous No.7204670]

>>7203313
Nah it's shit. Always has been. It would've been in there along-side cyberspace.

[Anonymous No.7204683]

>>7203318
>I guess not activating those stations is a solution, although a shitty one.
They weren't deactivated. SHODAN sabotaged them to convert people into cyborgs instead of reviving them. It's literally the death cinematic. When you hit the switch it blares "CYBORG CONVERSION IS OFF"

[Anonymous No.7204697]

>>7203313
2077 has a fallout like mini game. The og pnp had net running visualized like a dungeon crawl.

[Anonymous No.7204710]

>>7201928
>entire post is summed up by
>f-fuck you, you're just stupid!
Yawn...

[Anonymous No.7204879]

>>7204710
You are stupid, faggot. You are also tasteless and fat.

[Anonymous No.7204894]

>>7199217
You don't need to try so hard

[Anonymous No.7205068]

>>7201928
Not him, and I'm not AS anti-SS as he is, but he has I point. To preface, I love SS2. It feels like a believable place, the story is engaging, everything just clicks. I tried to get into SS because of SS2, but ever time I try I just give up after a few hours. I feel no immersion or believability. I just feel like I'm running around a win95 generated maze blasting enemies with a laser in what feels like just a bad FPS game. I don't really get any RPG-like, or immersive-sim like, enjoyment out of it.

[Anonymous No.7205081]

>>7205068
*win95 screensaver maze

[Anonymous No.7205609]

>>7199217
>not progressed an inch
>enemies stopped getting trapped on literally every turn of the map because ai is more complex than walking in an absolutely straight deadreckoned line

[Anonymous No.7205952]

>>7204683
It's practically equal to regular death though in that you just fail the game and have to reload

[Anonymous No.7206040]

>>7199217
>Crazy how the genre has not progressed an inch since this game
You mean since Ultima Underworld

[Anonymous No.7206329]

>>7199217
So, you didn't play Deus ex, VtmB, and hell, even Dead Space?

[Anonymous No.7206580]

>>7205952
>It's practically equal to regular death though in that you just fail the game and have to reload
The device blares that cyborg conversion is off. There are at least 5 notes in the game that tell you the revival chambers are being used to convert people into cyborgs. I think SHODAN even says it at one point. You might just be retarded.

[Anonymous No.7207772]

>>7199217

[Anonymous No.7208029]

>>7203018
>Anything made by LGS is going to be gold.
except ironically enough the one release with "gold" in the name, aka that one absurd attempt at completely fucking up the pacing of Thief with terrible new levels

>>7206329
it's a shame Dead Space has like, no place on any board. not retro so obviously no /vr/, no potential for cancerous circlejerking so no /vg/, and /v/ just remembers it as an action franchise that got hanged at the gallows by EA.

[Anonymous No.7208168]

>>7206329
>Dead Space
Doesn't have shit on SS1.

[Anonymous No.7209586]

>>7206329
Dead Space isn't even an immersive sim. It' a slow burn 3rd person shooter.