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/vr/ - Retro Games

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File: 132 KB, 583x452, Secret-of-Evermore.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
714381 No.714381 [Reply] [Original]

Much better than Secret of Mana.

>> No.714390

>>714381
In everything except graphics and sounds.

>> No.714394

If it actually had multiplayer, possibly.
But Mana has a huge edge over Evermore because of that.

>> No.714408

I think everything about it is worse than secret of mana

>> No.714428

>>714394
Look up the multiplayer patch then

>> No.714432

>>714381

I agree completely. Managed to be both unique and uniquely American. Far better design on the whole than SoM as well.

>> No.714440

>>714428
Even that's not great.
Whoever's stuck with the dog gets the short end of the stick.

>> No.714441

>>714408

You're wrong.

SoM = generic animu fantasy BS
SoE = unique and creative with an unorthodox magic system

>> No.714464

Secret of Evermore is probably one of the best games ever made. The world's unique, creative and interesting to explore, the soundtrack just above awesome, and the magic-system intriguing. Also dog-bro.

Also it was fresh air away from the repetitive JRPG-worlds and stories SoM had for example.

Though both are great games in their own way, and I understand that SoE isn't something for everyone due to its strange world.

>> No.714480

I really liked the 2nd level. rest of the game was average to meh. game isn't anywhere near the level of greatness of SoM IMO

>> No.714492

>>714441
>opinions

>> No.714506

If SoE had fewer glitches, and a better plotted drop system so that you could actually do everything that the instruction manual said you could (ie forge your sword) then I would agree.

As it stands, I think they're both equal. Sadly, I didn't find much charachter depth in either of them.

>> No.714514

>>714441
SoE is bland on every aspect.
There is no atmosphere build up due to a severe lack of music.
There is barely any storytelling between the intro and the end of the game (just basically people telling you to go there and there for unrelated reasons)
Gameplay is boring because much more limited than in SoM (only 2 characters, 1 of which is worthless), as well as being fucking annoying because most enemies dodge constantly or make weird movements making fights more painful than they should be (without making them more challenging either). Also gameplay is completely broken once you have that Shield magic, you're invicible.
Not to mention annoying level design in quite a few places, most notably getting lost in the desert and in the forest (Which you have to admit are two methods of creating artificial length to the game by getting the players lost inside the same assets over a hundred screens. And they did it twice.)

>> No.714520
File: 578 KB, 150x136, avgngif.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
714520

>>714514
Oh yeah I forgot to mention the painful trade system. What were they thinking?!

>> No.714525

also it's much shorter (despite the artificial length) and doesn't have the co-op

>> No.714540

They're on par with each other, I'd say.
I'd say SD3 is better than both, but SD3's magic system devolved into a massive clusterfuck halfway through the game.

>> No.714546

It's really a great game, but I'd say SoM is a tad better.

>> No.714551
File: 457 KB, 737x713, 1357346808835.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
714551

>>714514
>SoE
>Bland

You can't say there's no atmosphere. Every place is so unique, it felt so great.

Gameplay is far from boring, you're just saying so because you love SoM better.

>> No.714559
File: 61 KB, 580x250, q15.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
714559

>>714514
>He couldn't follow the owl

>> No.714598
File: 13 KB, 225x224, images.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
714598

>>714381
I enjoyed SoM much more.
>>dat ending

>> No.714840

>>714514
Weird, most of those are the problems I had with Mana. Want to win a boss fight with melee? Too bad, spam magic or die. Also, the absolutely retarded CPU AI for your party was constantly getting them trapped behind objects in travel and instantly killed in boss fights. The environments in Mana seemed recycled or incomplete. The over world was disjointed and mostly empty. Evermore gave you hints to get through mazes, Mana is all trial and error... I could go on but, opinions man...

>> No.714872

Secret of Evermore was original supposed to be much darker.

http://rainwoodworks.blogspot.de/2010/09/secret-of-evermore-was-one-of-my.html

>> No.715436

>>714440
Up unil it's toaster dog.

>> No.715442

>>714514
The lack of music gave it a much more desolate atmosphere. Ambience on its own worked really well. You really got the feeling that you were stranded in a strange world. It had a much greater sense of menace.

>> No.715448

>>714514
>comparing combat of SoE and SoM

SoM was spam magic: the game.

>> No.715474

>>714394
But the Mana Multiplayer was a useless gimmick.

>> No.715495

>>715448
Technically, so is SoE.

If you switch from the Boy to the Dog so you can spam magic in the first place.

But yeah, SoE at least gives you the option to win a bossfight with something other than magic.

And has a far more engaging magic system.

>> No.715508

>>715495
I think SoE's system also found a nicer balance of discouraging magic in combat while making it a strong option. In SoM you only needed walnuts which practically paid for themselves.

>> No.715529

As for an actual comparison...

>Graphics
SoE is just... Massively, staggeringly superior

>Sound
The games differ dramatically from each other, but each has great music in its own way. Equal

>Gameplay
SoE has a far more interesting and involving magic system that does a hell of a lot for immersion, and it offers the player the option to fight however he wants to - and still win. Immersion in general is better with SoE. On the other hand, SoM's difficulty curve is far more sensible, it has no complete bullshit labyrinth sequence (Playing as only the dog in Gothica... Worst part of SoE), and it has no fuck you traps (OH HAI I'M A RANDOM ROBOT WHO CAN ONE-SHOT YOU AT THIS POINT IN THE GAME OLOLOL). Overall, I'm say that SoM is more polished, but SoE has the better ideas. Who gets the edge depends on which of these two you prefer, but in the end, on average, probably about equal.

>Story
SoM is bland everyday save the world shit, SoE is silly what the fuck is going on shit. As with gameplay, I suppose it depends on what kind of story (And humour) one prefers - again, I prefer SoE, but I can see why others would give SoM the nod.

For me, SoE is better, but apart from its vastly superior graphics, the games, while massively different, are probably about equal from a neutral PoV

>> No.715541

>>715495
I don't know. In SoE it was obviously not intended to absuse the glitch of casting without delay, but you could argue that you aren't really meant to spam in SoM, either. Still, in SoE you'd still have an idea of how much you SHOULD be able to cast based on the length of the "proper" animations. But in SoM there really isn't any indiciation of what would be the proper amount of casting, making it an essentially broken system, not just one with a glaring flaw.

>> No.715551

>>715508
>Play SoE for the first time
>Play it in bogstandard mana style, level Flash to no end, beat bosses in seconds
>Enter Gothica
>No oil. No oil ANYWHERE
>have to beat six bosses before getting access to the glider to buy oil elsewhere
>PANIC

The game went out of its way to fuck with magic spammers, and in hindsight, it was awesome. None of us will put all our eggs in one basket if we ever get stranded in a strange, virtual world.

>> No.715565

>>715541
The SoM guidebook (Don't look at me like that, it came with the game for us Euros) specifically noted magic spamming to keep bosses from acting as the winning strat to beat bosses, so... Yeah. Integral part of the gameplay.

>> No.715567

>>714872
Damn, that's actually... a pretty convincing theory. I guess the era of vidyas still being somewhat mired with the toy image and Nintendo of America's horror regime took what could have been an original and amazing game and made it an original and great game.
Besides, the Ed Kann theory: I think if this is true, it might be possible that he didn't feel like he had enough creative control and his name was omitted from the credits on request.

>> No.715593

>>715565
Guidebooks are made after the game is finished and not by the devs themselves but by the publishers or are hired by the publisher. I think they probably discovered an inherently broken mechanic and declared it intentional. If it isn't, the SoM designers deserve to get whacked with a stick for encouraging spell locking the most fearsome monsters and making the protagonist dead weight in combat.

>> No.715598

>>715551
If I suddenly got the ability to cast magic you better fucking believe I would leave everything else behind

>> No.715645

>>715593
Screw the protagonist, I always went with controlling the sprite from the moment I got her to the fight against the Mana Beast, anyway.

Sprite + Girl lesbian* duo canon~

* Sprite's female in the German version and I prefer it that way

>> No.715670

both are tragically generic

>> No.715680

>>715645
>* Sprite's female in the German version and I prefer it that way

So I wasn't crazy at all! I had watched parts of an English LP where the sprite was a dude, so I had assumed that my mind simply misremembered.

On a related note: was the final boss Lufti or did I really get confused based on how they look similar?

>> No.715854

>>714381
It's not available on Virtual Console, is it?

>> No.715863

>>714381
I agree. It is one of the best, if not THE best SNES RPG

>> No.715869

that kinda looks like realms of arkania 3

>> No.715916
File: 18 KB, 261x345, 566954-carltron.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
715916

>>714381
I played it in the end of the nineties, from a CD I had full of SNES ROMs.
It wasn´t that bad but I couldn´t see the ending because the game crashed after your fought the robo-butler.
I tried this game again last summer on a PSP, and I stopped at the medieval world. The game is dull, the labyrinths frustrating, trying to get all the hidden items is disastruous and it has an unbearable grinding.
Although graphics and music are good IMHO it didn´t age well.

>> No.715986

>>715916
>Although graphics and music are good
I correct myself. It was ambience music, it doesn´t hold a candle to games like FF6 or CT.

>> No.716024

Really great game. I couldn't believe it was an American made RPG

>> No.716036

We got this because Squaresoft didn't wanted to localize Seiken 3/ Mana 2

>> No.716079

>>716036
>we don't want to translate a game so we make an entirely new one

No. They didn't release Seiken Densetsu 3 so it wouldn't take away Evermore's spotlight.

>> No.716273

>>715567
>>714872
Fake as hell. Look up the comment by Brian: http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/d9fq5/

>> No.716372
File: 73 KB, 1024x896, ee.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
716372

>>716273
>super-nes.com is a porn site

>> No.717079

I'd say it's about the same as Secret of Mana. 3P co op is a pretty big thing.

>> No.717742

>>717079
Not if it ends up being one player opening the magic menu the entire fight.

>> No.717771

Has anyone in this thread actually played Mana with 3 people? Very underwhelming and that's putting it nicely. Also, good luck finding another let alone two other people to play the whole game through with.

>> No.717876

>>717771
It wouldn't be so bad if going through menus wouldn't pause the game. You know, like in Final Fanatasy Crystal Chronicles which is pretty much a more modern SoM anyway

>> No.717885

Not really, no. Evermore was boring as fuck.

Then again, Mana was pretty boring itself.

>> No.718152
File: 27 KB, 807x644, flabbergasted.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
718152

>>717885
Aiming for the double whammy, huh?

>> No.718167

Every good point this game could have is lost because it caused SD3 to not be released in the USA.

>> No.718186

>>717771
I completed Secret of Mana with someone else, and he's coming round in about 10 minutes to continue on with Seiken Densetsu 3. It's pretty great.

>> No.718198
File: 2.87 MB, 1392x1976, 1357740827412.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
718198

Evermore is a mess of subpar game design. Just about all the developers were new. Great atmosphere, though it kinda clashes with the whole B-movie theme. I also think they wasted a great opportunity to make the plot a lot more interesting, when they revealed right away that it was all a simulation. The lack of multiplayer was also a shame. 2/4

Mana is better designed overall, but gameplay is completely broken from magic being too strong, and physical attacks not being strong enough. 3/4

>> No.718225
File: 101 KB, 686x582, 1363001540479.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
718225

>>718167

>> No.718254

>>717771
We didn't even know about how broken the spells were in this game, but we decided to use only weapons.

Also when playing single player I never used a single magic walnut, ever.
It's basically Zelda with cooldown.

>> No.718262

I kind of feel like I played Mana "wrong".
I didn't level up any spells besides the healing one and all I did was rush in with Y, swing my weapon, switch to another character with a free turn, rush, hit, switch again...

I always thought that made a great action game but now I'm not sure anymore.
Evermore always raped my face early on then gets boring later. You keep losing your dog, that's what makes up 50% of the gameplay there. Maybe I should try marathoning it again and posting here.

>> No.718269

>>718262
I mean, how the storyline keeps taking control of your dog away from you.

>> No.718494

>>716079
There are people still believe that bullshit to this day, holy shit.
Dude they weren't going to release SD3 here anyway no matter what. Squarsoft USA team wanted to try out their new talents, and that's why Evermore was made. Evermore's production has nothing to do with SD3, at all.

>> No.718502

>>717771
Yeah, in early 2000s, znet wasn't completely dead, and it was easy to get people to play netplay on zsnes. While I'd prefer to play something like Final Fight 2 on netplay over SoM, it was pretty cool when I did get bored of sidescroller beat em ups.

>> No.718520

>tfw the dog was completely worthless until you got to Omnitopia
Then Dog was a badass.

>> No.718563

>>718167
But SD3 is worse than Evermore and Mana alike.

>> No.718570

>>718254
Using magic-buffed weapons to get through - okay, doable.

Using no magic whatsoever? You spent how much time grinding, again? Unless you abused the weapons switching glitch.

>> No.718576

What exactly was Mungola? Just a huge face?

>> No.718578

>Start a new game some months ago
>Name the dog after mine
>Stop playing for various reasons
>My dog dies
>Replay the game recently
>See the name of the dog

;_;

>> No.718592

>>718167

Stop spreading such bullshit. Even without SoE SD3 hadn't be released in the west.

>> No.720194

>>714872
dude, this is just a damn troll. It sounds as a likely theory, but this sounds like some pre-/x/ doing creepypasta on a lesser popular game.

But I'll give myself the lulz taking over "The Noise Coming from Inside Children" as my horror novel's title. Maybe that way we can find out if the author really existed

>> No.720224

>>718520
>not pressing R to make the dog sniff out alchemy ingredients

>> No.720232
File: 418 KB, 640x480, SoM 2 NTSC-US.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
720232

>>718167

>> No.720238

>>720232
lol, I have that. Its a repo-cart. Worth the $40 if you think SD3 is a good game and prefer console to emulation.

>> No.720298

>>720232
That's hilarious, but my inner weeaboo prefers if it had Seiken Densetsu 3 on it, since the game is a prequel anyway.

>> No.721618

>>718520
Dog always did more damage than the boy did. Worst thing about the boy is that he had to learn how to use each weapon. Dog only had to get to level 3 once.

>> No.721756

>>720298
>prequel
Do we have an "official" timeline of the Mana series? Couldn't find one with my google-fu.

>> No.721770

>>718167

I'm convinced at this point that people only perpetuate this rumor for the sole purpose of trolling. Stop it.