/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.7101938]

zoomer here, why did they lose the console wars?

[Anonymous No.7101946]

>>7101938
They didnt. They ended up with a slightly bigger marketshare in the west. Then Snoy fucked them both in the ass.

[Anonymous No.7101959]

>>7101938
They released 3 consoles in 3 years and no one gave a fuck about any of them. They jewed themselves and I'm glad they died.

[Anonymous No.7101963]

Normally bad everything but a good internal system and games. Literally has no clue about marketing and the rest of it after the genesis

[Anonymous No.7101979]

>>7101938
Sega of Japan fucked up. The refused the SGI and Sony collaboration even after Sega of America secured their deal and insisted on using NEC manufactured chips. Hence, SGI went to nintendo and Sony collaborated with the American microprocessor designer LSI instead. SEGA failed due to their xenophobia and nationalistic affirmative action.

[Anonymous No.7102004]

Saturn cost 100 dollars more than the Playstation and had no games. All there is to it.
Dreamcast was successful, but Sega was going out of business by then and it couldn't save them.

[Anonymous No.7102006]

console wars aren't real, what the marketing teams did in USA did not reflect reality.
Sega and Nintendo could have easily coexisted in an ideal world without bigger corporations taking over genuine video game companies.

[Anonymous No.7102008]

>>7101938
The competed against themselves by releasing upgrades for an older generation that they were supposed to be replacing.

[Anonymous No.7102010]

>>7102006
Sega literally handed over the company to corporate mercenaries before "bigger corporations" even entered the market in a meaningful way.

[Anonymous No.7102014]

[Anonymous No.7102017]

For all their poor management decisions, at the end of the day, Sega had fewer good games worth caring about.

[Anonymous No.7102027]

>>7102017
SEGA has better games than Nintendo and Sony doesn't make games

[Anonymous No.7102030]

>>7102027
Lying faggot.

[Anonymous No.7102037]

>>7102030
Seethe

[Anonymous No.7102060]

>>7102017

SEGA dreamcast games feel like drugs. I think thats a good thing.

[Anonymous No.7102061]

>>7102060
DUDE

[Anonymous No.7102070]

>>7102027
They don't.

[Anonymous No.7102081]

Like many others they could not adapt to the mid-90's revolution anf made wrong bets on what the market would demand.
Nintendo had became complacent too but were more cautious in introducing new products and more ruthless in killing failed hardware. The SNES CD never saw the light of day, the Virtual Boy was killed in an instant.
Sega on the other hand was supporting the Master System, Genesis, Sega CD, Game Gear, 32X and Saturn at the same time, and only the Genesis was really successful.
Maybe the lack of focus was the reason their crucial hardware development in the true sucessor to the Genesis was a failure and the Saturn was fundamentally broken against the 5th gen competition and unsalvageable.
Sony's victory also cost them more than it cost Nintendo because Sony invested heavily in the mature, cool demographic that the Genesis had conquered before.

[Anonymous No.7102106]

>>7101938
Bernie Stolar saying "Saturn is not our future", which pissed off a lot of retailers.

Also the 32X add-on was a bad idea.

[Anonymous No.7102109]

Read/Listen to this book. It explains all.

[Sage No.7102143]

>>7102109
Im not going to read a fucking book, cant you summarize it?

[Anonymous No.7102162]

>>7102143
Nope. Quit being an illiterate cretin.

[Anonymous No.7102164]

>>7102143
no, but the biggest plot twist is that sega is an american company founded by a soldier stationed in korea

[Anonymous No.7102171]

they didn't listen to sega of america and kept shitting out different consoles, when they focused on the dreamcast it was too late

[Anonymous No.7102175]

>>7102171
Sega of America shitted out terrible games. The Saturn's library being mostly atrocious shovelware is mostly Sega of America's fault.

[Anonymous No.7102183]

>>7102171
yeah, trying to be "first" to use CD-ROMs was a bad gamble, anyone with a PC knew CD-ROMS were pointless for games, and the 32x thing just annoyed consumers, so everyone bought a ps1 instead.

[Anonymous No.7102185]

>>7102109
Nah. Why would I read/listen to an author who has Sega Derangement Syndrome and a boner for Nintendo?

[Anonymous No.7102202]

>>7102185
>Sega Derangement Syndrome
Shut the fuck up and know your place, filthy /pol/ack foreigner.

[Anonymous No.7102208]

>>7101938
-The 32X killed a lot of brand trust in the West
-Wary Westerners ignored the Saturn (which, in the US, shipped even LESS units than the freaking Sega CD) and jumped onto the PSX, which was cheaper and also had a much bigger library.
-Arcade rooms, which were a big source of income for Sega, started losing popularity in the late 90's.

There's more stuff to it, like the Saturn surprise release in the US at 1995 E3, which angered a lot of retailers who weren't informed about it and thus decided to stop carrying Sega products, but the most important have been mentioned already.

In Japan the story was completelly different though. There the Genesis/Mega Drive was a failure and the Saturn was Sega's best selling system over there.

[Anonymous No.7102214]

>>7102185
He's sympathetic to SEGA but he can't help it if SEGA management fumbled the transition to the next gen. Playstation ate SEGAs lunch more than Nintendo did. During the Genesis/SNES era the branding and market segmentation was clear: Nintendo for kids, and Genesis for teenagers who were no longer comfortable playing cutesy stuff and wanted something more edgy. Both had clearly defined consumer bases, but then Sony comes in with a console that's mature enough for teens and young adults, but sounds "playful" enough that parents will buy it for their little kids at Christmas. That's just from a marketing perspective. SEGA fucked up a ton of times experimenting with trying to be first with cutting edge tech that wasn't ready like CDs, internet connected games, etc. I think Nintendo stumbled with this too. I never considered even buying a Nintendo console between SNES and Switch because they always had some kind of corny controller gimmick which they should have learned from the PowerGlove are lame.

[Anonymous No.7102248]

>>7102004
>Dreamcast was successful, but Sega was going out of business by then and it couldn't save them.
Curiously, the Dreamcast experienced the best first year that generation.

[Anonymous No.7102257]

>>7101938
they lost because the company was in the business of amusement machines, and when they targeted the home market they were selling to gamers. nintendo made toys for children, and when sony entered the market they wanted to appeal to everyone and they had the background in consumer electronics along with excellent marketing.
what company is going to take the risk of making software for a console that nobody owns? then arcades kinda died, too.
all this talk of "sega of america sucked! 32x saturn killed sega" is tiresome and dumb, it was inevitable that sega would have trouble.

[Anonymous No.7102270]

>>7102248
Obviously because it launched first.

[Anonymous No.7102279]

>>7102257
Even during the time of peak SEGA which is to say Genesis, I kind of regretted not getting a SNES instead when the SNES library started filling out, and SEGA seemed to have less good games. Also, during those last days of Genesis the biggest arcade games were Capcom and Midway, so SEGA was already on the way out there too. I do remember the hype for the Dreamcast looking good, and kind of wanted one, but I was putting all my money into my PC at that point since I could use it for gaming, work, and college.

[Anonymous No.7102283]

>>7102279
Genesis never had good support from Japanese developers. Capcom didn't support it at all, for instance (Yes, there a few licensed Capcom titles, Capcom themselves worked on none of them). The same Sega of America shitting out those awful late era Genesis games was responsible for the state of the Western Saturn library.

[Anonymous No.7102292]

>>7102283
Genesis had those early arcade hits like Altered Beast and Golden Axe, but as SEGA faded from the arcade, Mortal Kombat was their only clear win over SNES on the port because the SNES port somehow didn't have juggling combos. Skilled players found the SNES one unplayable due to lack of combos, and casual kids didn't like the SNES lack of gore, but that was really the only victory they had by that point.

[Anonymous No.7102295]

>Brand new Sega Saturn came with a demo disk of Nights instead of any full game.
Fuck Sega forever.

[Anonymous No.7102303]

>>7102292
Sega wasn't fading from the arcade, they were at the forefront of it. That being the problem, as the Genesis is designed to play 1989 arcade titles like Goldenaxe 1 and nothing Sega was putting out could feasibly come out on the Genesis.

[Anonymous No.7102310]

>>7101938
They didn't have infinite money like MS and Sony

[Anonymous No.7102321]

>>7102303
Example; this is the sort of thing Sega was putting out in the mid 90s. I doubt the Saturn could run this without cutbacks (not that Sega even bothered to try, of course).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXZOw0lwnKI
How exactly would one even attempt to bring something like that to the Genesis? You wouldn't. Instead you'd like Sega of America make shovelware garbage for the Western audience.

[Anonymous No.7102326]

>>7102295
A demo compilation disk wouldn't be as bad, I'm pretty sure some PS1 models came with demo disks. A demo for fucking nights though holy shit lmao. Imagine being playing the demo and enjoying it only to find out that the full game is barely even longer than the demo.

[Anonymous No.7102328]

>>7102270
Well, the PS2 had a worse first year than the GC or XBOX, which came later.

[Anonymous No.7102330]

>>7102328
PS2 actually had one of the best launch lineups of all time, but it wasn't really normie stuff.

[Anonymous No.7102374]

>>7102321
That's just a standard rail shooter. Midway already did it better in 92.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8W9juT-4aP0

[Anonymous No.7102381]

>>7102321
>How exactly would one even attempt to bring something like that to the Genesis?

That's just Space Harrier with a movie tie in. If SEGA was still doing the same game in 96 it shouldn't be a surprise they will fail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hzgrb-mjLaM

[Anonymous No.7102405]

>>7102381
That is a Genesis era game from 1994, dude. And no, that type of game was extremely popular in the aracdes at the time.

[Anonymous No.7102424]

>>7102405
The original Space Harrier came out in 1985. Ten years later, they're still making the same game, and only with marginally better graphics.

[Anonymous No.7102427]

>>7102405
The original Space Harrier came out in 1985. Ten years later, they're still making the same game, and only with marginally better graphics.

[Anonymous No.7102434]

>>7102427
That isn't the same type of game? Space Harrier is a rail shooter, Jurassic Park is a lightgun game.

[Anonymous No.7102447]

>>7102434
So it's Terminator 2 mixed with Space Harrier plus a movie tie-in. I guess that's a little innovative, but by mid 90s, people were only going to the arcade to play fighting games in a social atmosphere. Who had the Dungeons and Dragons games with the giant screens? Those were a decent attempt, but due to inflation didn't they cost like 75 cents or some shit.

[Anonymous No.7102454]

>>7102447
I think you're projecting later attitudes backwards, man. As late as 1997, Nintendo had a rail shooter as a huge first party hit.
My point wasn't that Jurassic Park was an innovative game, it wasn't. It was exactly aimed at what the average arcade goer wanted. Sega's innovative games were its "Virtua" line. My point is how do you get that on the Genesis?

[Anonymous No.7102485]

>>7102454
I think they could have done the Jurassic Park game on Genesis. It just would have looked worse, but it's the same faux 3d as a driving game, but with the controllers moving the gun target. Oh, was Virtua Fighter SEGA's arcade fighter game? Ironic that that first came to consoles on the Playstation. in the 80s and early 90s, going to the arcade was like seeing the future of home consoles, but by mid to late 90s, PCs got so powerful, I stopped looking to the arcade. Doom plus Elder Scrolls were like the arrival of the little rodents that would eventually evolve to tigers and bears to replace the dinosaurs.

[Anonymous No.7102685]

>>7102202
t.Triggered Leftist cuck

>>7102214
True. I never did like the N64 controller or the Wii-mote.

[Anonymous No.7102736]

>>7102685
The DS had some great retro style games, but every time I went to buy one on Ebay, I'd take a look at that stupid stylus and think "Nah, maybe not" and then read with the wiki on the PSP, but ultimately buy nothing and go back to playing PC games.

[Anonymous No.7102742]

>>7101938
People payed money to play online with the dc. Smash fags earn money for playan gamecube.

[Anonymous No.7102768]

>>7101938
They made terrible decisions.

[Anonymous No.7102780]

>>7102109
Thanks for the recommendation.

[Anonymous No.7102823]

>>7102017
>at the end of the day, Sega had fewer good games worth caring about.

Sega published way more games than nintendo ever did, but they had less masterpieces

[Anonymous No.7104296]

>>7101938
unironically far, far too ahead of their time

people tend to overlook the fact that Sega has always been a primarily arcade-focused company, even back in the day. Even their supposed rivalry with Nintendo was purely a marketing thing; various Sega games saw officially licensed Famicom ports, and Nintendo even greenlit some Pokemon games for Sega's weird-ass edutainment console thing

The success of the Master System in South America, Genesis in the West, and Saturn in Japan were all unexpected, happy accidents

Can't prove this but I know for a fact that despite financial losses, Sega viewed their forced ejection from the console market with an "ah, damn. well at least we tried" attitude.

that's why Sega was instantly cool with making games for "rival" consoles.

From their exclusive Xbox/Nintendo games, to PS2's exclusive remake series along with Saturn controllers, it's pretty clear that Sega never really took their consoles all too seriously

[Anonymous No.7104308]

>>7102017
Early 90s Sega was legitimately fucking great. While it's obvious which series as a whole is superior, the OG Sonic trilogy is arguably better than the OG Super Mario Bros trilogy.

[Anonymous No.7104310]

>>7102427
I wish they were still making Space Harrier remakes.

[Anonymous No.7104320]

>>7104296
they knew that the guys who made Smash Pack included a hidden Genesis emulator for Dreamcast yet they were totally cool with it

They allow people to fucking sell ROM hacks on Steam for real money, their stint in the console industry really was just a meme in their eyes

[Anonymous No.7104341]

I take solace knowing other big Japanese companies like Square, Capcom, and Namco will soon join Konami and Sega in death.

[Anonymous No.7104345]

>>7104341
Why?

[Anonymous No.7104364]

>>7104345
The bodies are alive, but nobody's home upstairs. Pulling the plug is the best option for everyone involved and perhaps from the industry's dead bloated corpse something new and beautiful might grow.

[Anonymous No.7104376]

>>7101938
Same thing that's happening to Sony right now. Company had divisions in both Japan and America and the based Japanese division kept letting itself get cucked by the retarded American division.

[Anonymous No.7104378]

>>7104364
Perhaps you're right. Some creative destruction would be good for the industry. But I don't think western game companies are any better.

[Anonymous No.7104404]

>>7104341
> Source: my ass
> Squeenix
Doing fine. It seems like they've finally caught onto the fact that people care more about a finished game than bleeding edge graphics and they're setting reasonable goals for FFXVI. NieR: Automata was a smashing success and they've got the remaster of the original coming down the pipe as we speak. Last I heard they were considering trimming the fat and selling off their western division, which is a smart move because their western division is nothing but a ball and chain at this point.
> Capcom
Doing amazing. They're in the middle of a renaissance and RE engine is one of the most technologically game engines currently in existence.
> Bamco
Seems to be doing fine making AA-tier weebshit
>>7104378
Squeenix and Capcom have put out more good games this generation than every western AAA company combined. The only destruction that needs to happen is every western AAA company being annihilated and the entire AAA industry outside of Japan being rebuilt from scratch.

[Anonymous No.7104407]

>>7104404
I agree with you, Anon. I too think Japanese games are better than Western games, and I don't want those companies to die (I'm also looking forward to FFXVI). But it's also undeniable that as the gaming industry has matured and gotten larger, it's become more formulaic, even in Japan. Can you imagine something like MGS2 happening today? Anyway, even if I don't want all those companies to die, I think the game industry could use a shakeup, a back to basics movement.

[Anonymous No.7104413]

>>7104404
>Squeenix and Capcom have put out more good games this generation than every western AAA company combined.

Even if this were true, what have they done besides sequels and remakes? They both need a DNR.

[Anonymous No.7104425]

Infighting between Japan and America, also one hand not knowing what the other is doing. Also too many hardware and attachments too often.

[Anonymous No.7104482]

>>7104341
Square and Namco are already dead

[Anonymous No.7104486]

>>7104376
Sega is a company started by some american jews just like taito, I am glad it died

[Anonymous No.7104568]

>>7102330
>but it wasn't really normie stuff.
>SSX
>Madden 2001
>Ready 2 Rumble Boxing: Round 2
>Tekken Tag Tournament
>Midnight Club
>Moto GP
>NHL 2001
>not normalfag games
I want zoomers to kill themselves.
>>7102485
>Oh, was Virtua Fighter SEGA's arcade fighter game? Ironic that that first came to consoles on the Playstation
Nigger what are you talking about?

[Anonymous No.7104636]

>>7102685
Don't know what the issue is with the N64 controller. Had a Genesis and played it everyday and rented for it almost every week, but Mario 64 unironically convinced me to buy a Nintendo system, and I didn't look back until the Dreamcast came out. 3D was truly amazing for a long time thanks to its control stick, however painfully annoying it could be, sometimes.

[Anonymous No.7104642]

>>7101938
>console wars?

They didn't and that wasn't a real thing. Sega had a far more global presence then Nintendo ever did.

[Anonymous No.7104687]

>>7104642
>t. seething Somalitranny

[Anonymous No.7104692]

>>7102330
Xbox sold almost as little despite having Halo

[Anonymous No.7104720]

>>7101938
they made a ton of mistakes during the transition between their Gen 4 and Gen 5 consoles, which in turn led to a solid effort during the beginning of Gen 6 to just not be enough to keep them going as a console developer

I still think they should have just skipped over doing a dedicated new 5th Gen console(since the Saturn's development was one of the biggest messes in the history of the gaming industry) and instead done a new version of the Genesis with an integrated 32x(with a limited release of the add-on version for those who don't want to buy a new console), having backwards compatibility with the majority of the Genesis's library(especially if they were smart enough to make the "Neptune" in a design form that would be compatible with the Sega CD and the Power Base Converter) as well as having new games and being the cheapest new console of the period(since the Neptune supposedly would have been only around 150 dollars at retail) would have given it a real fighting chance compared to either the 32x we did get or the Saturn and would have given Sega the time they needed to properly make the Dreamcast a success in the 6th Gen

[Anonymous No.7104723]

They didn't lose here.
t. brazillian

[Anonymous No.7104730]

>>7102328
it came out in october/november in 2000. it actually wouldve sold even better but sony didnt make enough


people were dying to get their hands on a ps2. they were camping outside bestbuys, scalping those bitches, this ps5 shit is actually making me a little nostalgic. in a bad way.

[Anonymous No.7104779]

>>7101938
>why did they lose the console wars?

Playstation 1 happened.

[Anonymous No.7104794]

>>7104723
kek

[Anonymous No.7104836]

>>7104730
>it came out in october/november in 2000
Well, GameCube and XBOX were released little before the Christmas campaign of 2001. All consoles that generation were released pretty late in the year in fact.

[Anonymous No.7104876]

>>7102175
This
Sega's Western game divisions were absolute trash.

[Anonymous No.7104883]

>>7102283
SoA also had some shitty practices.
Cardboard cartridge packages
Shitty cover art
$90 Phantasy Star 4
Not translating The Hybrid Front

[Anonymous No.7104919]

>>7104364
>konami
I'll take anything at this point, the most soulless, shitty AAA Castlevania with day one DLC and multiplayer, and p2w battle royal Silent Hill.

[Anonymous No.7104937]

>>7102017
Unironically this. People always claim it was a management issue, but Nintendo also did a bunch of stupid shit arguably less, granted and was able to keep afloat.
I've played Saturn games for the first time last year and Dreamcast games for the first time this year and it all finally made sense, the fuckers were still making arcade-style stuff into the 2000s, with a whole 2 hours of content. What saved Nintendo was dropping almost entirely the arcade business by the early 90s but Sega had too much pride and couldn't forgo "the king of arcades" title, which was fine on the Mega Drive, but as soon as the Saturn came their design philosophy was outdated and unnattractive to the average gamer.
Because of that, I feel there's very few first party titles among the best of either console

[Anonymous No.7105578]

>>7101938
They fucked over their third party developers and their Japanese and US departments were at war with each other.

[Anonymous No.7105695]

>>7101946
/Thread

[Anonymous No.7105696]

They grew proud and God punished them

[Anonymous No.7105710]

Did they ever even try in europe?
Literally dont know a single person with a sega console.
Never saw a sega console in stores.
Only read about them in video game magazines.

t. germanon born 92

[Anonymous No.7105751]

They gave support to too many consoles even if they weren't popular while at the same time making their popular exclusives multiplatform

[Anonymous No.7105809]

>>7101959
>>>7101938 (OP)
>They released 3 consoles in 3 years and no one gave a fuck about any of them

Its worse than that if you include the upgrades to Sega Genesis that were released in a close time frame. I believe Sega CD and Sega 32X were both released within 1.5 and 2 years of each other.

So imagine your a Sega fan that wants the latest gear. You buy Sega Genesis. Then you have to doll out money in rapid succession for Sega CD, Sega 32X, Sega Saturn and finally Sega Dreamcast.

No one would have that money or that level of fanaticism. So even Sega fans were giving some of the hardware a pass.

[Anonymous No.7105979]

>>7102106
He was right. The Saturn was stillborn.

[Anonymous No.7106784]

>>7102027
>SEGA has better games
SEGA cant even make a good sonic game these days

[Anonymous No.7107656]

Another zoomer here, I recently started looking into Genesis and Dreamcast stuff since I have only ever played Nintendo and Sony consoles. What are hidden gems for both systems that y'all recommend?

[Anonymous No.7107692]

>>7105809
32x was fucking stupid. Parents & kids would have bought games for Genesis not realising it was incompatible .

[Anonymous No.7108635]

>>7104723
>they didn't lose here
7-1 says otherwise

[Anonymous No.7108664]

>>7107692
Genesis games work on 32x

[Anonymous No.7108685]

>>7106784
So what? Nintendo can't make a good Mario game either.

[Anonymous No.7108739]

>>7108685
>what is odyssey
>what is galaxy

[Anonymous No.7108750]

>>7101979
>The refused the SGI and Sony collaboration
And supposedly the 3DO hardware designers came to Sega around '90/'91 and presented their ideas and asked for funding and were turned down as well. Not that that would have been the right console for Sega, but it does show that they were presented with numerous options and still decided to go with their own in-house design. A design which had 6 major buses versus 3 for the Playstation, 2 for the 3DO, and 1 for the N64. A design that was not only slower and more expensive, but still had major flaws such as with transparency and alpha blending.

If all you care about is a prosperous Sega, than going all in with Sony would have been the smartest move. If you care more about a successful hardware producer, than Sega should have teamed up with SGI or the designers of what would become the 3DO.

[Anonymous No.7108754]

>>7105710
megadrive and dreamcast were fairly popular here. never knew anyone who owned saturn though.
t. finn

[Anonymous No.7108857]

>>7108739
> Odyssey is a good game
Lol

[Anonymous No.7108912]

>>7105710
You didn't know this guy?

[Anonymous No.7109143]

>>7107692

32x was actually a good piece of hardware marketed wrong and priced wrong.

32x being discontinued killed peoples faith in Sega with the high cost of a Saturn upon release it was a dead end.

Tom kolinski could of made the 32x a success if Sega of japan didnt but in too much.

[Anonymous No.7109148]

>>7108754
$399 scared people away

By time it was $199 it was too late Sony was the new king.