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/vr/ - Retro Games

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7089275 No.7089275 [Reply] [Original]

>Beat a game using save states
>Was challenged and had a lot of fun
According to /vr/ I didn't actually play the game, I just mashed a bunch of buttons until by sheer brute force I magically ended up at the credits.
This is what some of you actually believe, lol.

>> No.7089295

There is no problem as long as you know and admit that you cheated to beat the game.

Using cheats is fine. It's using cheats and pretending they're not cheats which isn't, it's kindergarten level of non-copping lying bullshit, except in an adult's body, making it even worse.

>> No.7089306

>>7089295
example: this one guy on /vp/ claimed his shiny legendary was legit.

In order to procure said shiny legendary, he played using 30 emulator windows at the same time, all using the same save, at 300% fast forward speed.

Went through all this trouble instead of cloning it or using a save file modifier program, to claim it's "legit". While at the same time there are people streaming themselves shiny hunting by playing on different savefiles at once on real hardware.

>> No.7089309

>>7089295
I didn't cheat, though. I used an emulator tool.
Infinite health is a cheat. Rewind is not.

>> No.7089314

>>7089309
Cheating definition:

>To violate rules in order to gain advantage from a situation.

"Rewind" isn't part of the games' rules.

>> No.7089485

>>7089309
CHEATER

>> No.7089498

>>7089275
I say it is more like training. Try again as the game is. People did beat games without exploits, but you know some used exploits before to beat a game

>> No.7089502

>seriously the game's still hard if you can undo any mistake at any time as many times as you want
doubtful

better luck next time

>> No.7089535

The arcades already clarified this problem decades ago. What you did is credit feeding. Rather than master the whole game, which takes consistency and stamina, you mastered individual moments, replaying them over and over until a combination of luck or skill pulled you through. Continues and saving represent a compromise between these, where you at least master individual levels, or maybe just checkpoints, but certainly not the entire game.

Obviously not every game is ideal for playing without continues, especially if they are lengthy. But that is generally the ideal of pure arcade or action games, especially of the earlier eras we cover, even if they are home releases.

>> No.7089546

>>7089275
You did play the game but you did in no way beat it

Someone that uses a cheat device like game genie didnt beat the game either

Save stating is cheating unless its used the same way as passwords were
To come back later

>> No.7089563

>>7089309
I used an emulator tool to find the health memory point and set it to be fixed at 100%.
Totally not a cheat, you guys.

>> No.7089580

>>7089309
>Rewind is not
can you rewind on the original rom on the original hardware?

>> No.7089602

>>7089275
Why do you want the internet to validate what you already know the internet sees as a weakness? If you didn't care you wouldn't even bring it up

>> No.7089603

You did play the game, its just that you didn't beat it

>> No.7089704

>>7089309
I guess TAS are legit speedruns then
trannies BTFO

>> No.7089707

>>7089602
/thread

>> No.7089716

>>7089275
>Der Soover removes all tension from the game because he plays with a safety net and there is no chance of his playthough ending in failure
Is that a jump? IM SOOOVING AAAAAAHHHHHH

>> No.7089717

>>7089275
What are you listening to what /vr/ says anyway?

>> No.7089846

>>7089275
Stfu anime shill

>> No.7089906

it is interesting that rewind seems to trigger /vr/ way more than saves states do

>> No.7089914

>>7089906
rewind is like having a save state at every single point of the game. It's lame

>> No.7089953

>>7089704
DANGEROUSLY BASED

>> No.7090006

>>7089314
There's official emulators with rewind. It's part of the rules.

>> No.7090007

>>7090006
A lot of games have official cheats, also.

>> No.7090026

>>7089906
Save states actually got uses that are fair enough, like you can make them at points where the game lets you save or when you have to interrupt your playing session, so that you wouldn't have to keep the emulator open on pause while you're gone. Also if you like a certain place in the game you can use it to quickly revisit it.

>> No.7090446

>>7089306
Sounds just as "cheated" or "legit" either way. Why is being more efficient with multiple emulators cheating and being more autistic with multiple consoles not?
Of course, a non-faggot will just hack.

>> No.7090461

>>7089846
>Megaman Legends
>anime

>> No.7090482

>>7089704
they're their own category so I guess you're the one who got BTFO

>> No.7090485

>>7089275
youre bad stay mad. 0/10 bait thread.

>> No.7090550

>>7089535
Arcade games kinda give you the best of both worlds. You can credit feed through and see the levels/bosses and have a reasonably good time, or you can challenge yourself on 1 credit and get enjoyment from developing your skills and improving. Most games you can only do one or the other.

>> No.7090679

>>7089275
How's the transition going anon?

>> No.7090751

>>7089309

lmao you fucking idiot, rewind is absolutely cheating.

Using savestates on the password screen so you dont have to enter bullshit is not cheating, but if you think rewind isnt cheating you're a god damn retard.

>> No.7090754

>>7090679
i wish troons were 1/128th as cute as the cartoons they jack off to :(((

>> No.7090768

>>7089275
What is it with zoomers and strawmen? Are the children of your generation really this bad at arguing?

>> No.7090815

>>7090006
>I used IDDQD in Doom to gain permanent invulnerability, since it's officially integrated into the game, it's not cheating.
Faggot

>> No.7090826

>>7089295
So the PC version of Tomb Raider was forcing you to cheat with the free save?

>> No.7091206

>>7089309
Were there rewinds in the original game? No.

>> No.7091272

>>7089275
anyone who gets on a high horse about exploiting saves is up their own ass and lying to themselves they wouldn't have exploited the fuck out of save states back then as a kid too. we had this thing called game genie. and if we didnt have it, our friends did.

>> No.7091389

>>7089275
>dat crotch bulge
what the actual fuck lads?

>> No.7091413

Roll deserves better than this shitty bait thread

>> No.7091424

>>7091413
>Roll deserves better
Such as?

>> No.7091434

>>7090006
>There's official emulators with rewind. It's part of the rules.
The emulator isn't the game itself I'd say, official or not, but even if you want to include it that just means you've played a different version of the game with new rules. So you could say you beat a new, easier version of the same game. But it doesn't share the same rules as the original, so it's not equivalent. Play however is fun for you, it's just a different thing.

Also what >>7090007 and >>7090815 said.

>> No.7092064

>>7090446
>Why is being more efficient with multiple emulators cheating and being more autistic with multiple consoles not?

Because one involves manipulation of time (rewind) and space (same one save on 30 different machines at once); and one doesn't.

The only way the first method is "legit" is if you're literally God and you can bend time&space at will.

>> No.7092071

>>7092064
Not "rewind", "fastforward".

>>7092064
>The only way the first method is "legit" is if you're literally God and you can bend time&space at will.

and even then God wouldn't be playing by the same rules as everyone else so you could still call him a lying non-copping kindergarten level shitter.

>> No.7092075

>>7091389
i love it O_O

>> No.7092502

>>7091424
Such as RELEASE THE THIRD GAME ALREADY CAPCOM REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>> No.7092513

I'll play through pissoff games that I've already beaten with rewinds, but if you're the type of person who says they beat something like Ghosts N Goblins for the first time using save states and rewinds the only person you're fooling is yourself.

>> No.7092567
File: 1.99 MB, 448x252, 1597949665527.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7092567

>>7089275
Im glad you enjoyed the game anon.

I'm doing the same.

It depends on how you use it, but I don't consider it cheating.

Old games had tons of bloat or back and forth. Save states are a great way to modernize weaker game design.

>> No.7092589

>>7089295

It doesn't even matter, though. Its a fucking children's toy.

>> No.7092616

>>7092589
Cope zoomie.

>> No.7092662

>>7092589
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZD_ioOCXSg
This is a board for discussing games. Whether or not any of this "matters" in the grand scheme of things doesn't make much difference, because this place is made for such topics. It's true that nobody should feel ashamed of playing a game how they enjoy it, as long as it's not multiplayer and they're ruining it for others. Plenty of us here used Game Genies/Sharks growing up and play around with save states. But to say it's equivalent to beating the game normally is provably wrong. It might not make a difference to you personally, but when you tell people you "beat a game" it's generally assumed you beat the game without modifying its rules through cheats to make it easier. Of course most people won't care too much if you do claim to beat a game that you cheated through, but you'd only be lying to yourself by pretending its the exact same thing. It matters primarily when comparison is necessary, whether it's scores/times or just comparing your experiences playing the game.

>> No.7092684

>>7089275
>According to /vr/ I didn't actually play the game, I just mashed a bunch of buttons until by sheer brute force I magically ended up at the credits.
>This is what some of you actually believe, lol.
There's absolutely no way you actually bought in to this. You're fooling no one with your reverse-bait.

>> No.7092685

>>7092662
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlmoEpNNiVI
For example, a speedrunner might say he beat Pokemon Yellow this way, using glitches to reach the end instantly. If you define "beat" as just bringing the game to the credits, then he did beat it, but it's a very different experience and challenge compared to a normal playthrough. So separate categories will be used for discussion (glitchless vs glitched, 100%, etc.). The default interpretation in casual conversation when people say they "beat the game" is that they played normally.

>> No.7092750

>>7092662
>It matters primarily when comparison is necessary, whether it's scores/times or just comparing your experiences playing the game.

While I agree with in terms of a competitive scene. But when comparing your experience of a game I can't.


Most single player games are made more accessible and thus better by the addition of save states. Players use the save states as they feel challenged.

But unless exclusivity is your goal and you don't want others to also enjoy the same game.

>> No.7092802

>>7089309
Rewind is double baby mode. Savestates take a fraction of forethought at least.

>> No.7092834

Well, that's your experience, anon, you don't need to make excuses. That's nothing wrong with correcting gamedesign mistakes of an old game like artificial difficulty with modern tools as far as you enjoy the game!

>> No.7092904 [SPOILER] 
File: 83 KB, 1920x1080, 1605718078555.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7092904

>>7092834
ITT: Anon learns how rewind helps accessibility

>> No.7092996

>>7092589
How is it a "children's toy" if most people playing these games are adults? It's an adult's toy, and a lot more interesting than other adult toys (telescopes, binoculars, fishing rods, etc.)

>> No.7093001

>>7089295
>There is no problem as long as you know and admit that you cheated to beat the game.
Exactly this. It's like pretending you watched a movie when you only actually read about it.

>> No.7093030

Thinking save states are cheating makes twitter seethe, so of course its the correct position to take.

>> No.7093120

>>7092750
>But when comparing your experience of a game I can't.
Why not? Obviously you can still talk about game and your experiences together, but it makes a difference when talking about things like how difficult the game was. I assumed it was inferrable, but maybe I should have specified that this only matters for comparing certain aspects of the experiences you had while playing the game, like the challenge.
>But unless exclusivity is your goal and you don't want others to also enjoy the same game.
I already said "nobody should feel ashamed of playing a game how they enjoy it."

>> No.7093153

>>7089275
I wouldn't say you didn't play the game. I would say you didn't get good at the game, and may have missed some elemental bits of the experience because you save stated your way through it. You didn't have to reformulate a strategy or explore the environment for some tool or item that would help, you just hit a button and performed a little better, just enough to get past the encounter.

I wouldn't say there's any shame in that if you're just there to see the narrative, but it colors your opinion on certain aspects in ways you don't really consider unless you're also doing a non-save state run and noting the differences in how you play.

That said, some people use save states to get really good at a game because having to reload and wait through titles and load times kills your practice time when you could just hit a button and practice whatever segment you're trying to practice. You speed running piece of shit.

>> No.7093160

No one cares that someone uses cheats in a single player game. No one cares how anyone enjoys their video games. But why is the objective fact that if you used cheats you didn't actually complete the game triggering?

>> No.7093164

>>7093120
Like there's no way to explain some things without noting that you didn't play normally.
>"I just beat X, that last boss was brutal, he took forever and you had to repeat the whole stage after dying."
>"I thought he was easy"
>"Why's that? Is there a better strategy?"
>"He only took a couple hits for me because I increased my damage with a code and if I died I just reloaded before the fight."

>> No.7093167

>>7093153
>I would say you didn't get good at the game, and may have missed some elemental bits of the experience because you save stated your way through it.

This doesn't make any sense because there is no correct way to play a game. It's like saying "you missed part of the experience because you didn't get x item". It's like yeah, that can be true for sure in some games, but perhaps the understanding you should come to is that every game is played differently and beaten differently. In some games you can get an item that makes the entire game trivial or nearly trivial. Yet that wouldn't count as cheating to you, because it's "in the game".

>> No.7093173

>>7093167
If a game gives you a super weapon, of course its part of the game. Castlevania 4 giving you unlimited attempts on Dracula with a full heart stock/maximum cross before the fight is an intended part of the game.

>> No.7093186

>>7093167
>Yet that wouldn't count as cheating to you, because it's "in the game".
Yes, of course. It's part of the intended challenge set up by the game. It might be a trivial challenge because of the design, but it's still part of the game.

>>7093160
I feel like a lot of this is just people arguing over definitions and acting like other people said something offensive if they don't like the words they used. They can argue about what "complete" means and call you a jerk that wants to exclude people if you don't consider jumping to the end of the game with a code "completing it."

>> No.7093189

>>7093160
I know a lot of the posts here will be bait, but you'll see people seriously getting offended over that on Twitter and it blows my mind.

>> No.7093194

>>7093167
>there is no correct way to play a game
What did he mean by that?

>> No.7093195

>>7092996

Most people who buy My Little Pony toys are also adults. The fuck does that have to do with anything at all?

>> No.7093201

>>7093173
>>7093186

You missed the point. Just because something is in the game does not mean that its inherently good to the game or that the game benefits from it. Just because something is "intended" does not mean that it is good for the game or good game design. It's potentially an incorrect assumption to say that the designers put something in the game for a good reason.

>> No.7093202
File: 714 KB, 1438x1073, Screenshot_20201012-003915_Gallery.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7093202

>>7092662

Ok thats fair

>>7092616
I'm 28, fag

>> No.7093210

>>7092750
>But unless exclusivity is your goal and you don't want others to also enjoy the same game.
lol and who the fuck are you to say what other people should or shouldn't find important? If you don't think it's important then just say that you used save states. It's like if you're listening to people talk about their travels and you have nothing, it's like inventing a bunch of shit and saying internally "well I read about it and saw pictures other people showed me so it's like I was there but I didn't use up all that time and money".... I should hope not, because you just weren't there and it's different.

>> No.7093212

>>7093201
>Just because something is in the game does not mean that its inherently good to the game or that the game benefits from it
Never said it was good or bad, just saying that's the game as presented by the designers. For better or worse, it's the challenge they created.

>> No.7093216

>>7093195
Who buy or who play with?

>> No.7093224

>>7093186
>I feel like a lot of this is just people arguing over definitions and acting like other people said something offensive if they don't like the words they used
So many arguments online end up like this, it's dumb and things would be a lot easier if people recognized it when it's happening.
https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/7X2j8HAkWdmMoS8PE/disputing-definitions

>> No.7093225

>>7093212
>I would say you didn't get good at the game, and may have missed some elemental bits of the experience because you save stated your way through it.

My point was that no matter what way you play a game you will miss some elements. If your only point is that people made a game and it had elements and you may skip some when you play them, then just delete your original post because it might as well be saying "the sky is blue".

>> No.7093226

>>7093216

For the sake of my sanity, and to the benefit of the argument I know you want to make, im going to say they don't play with the MLP toys.

God, I hope they don't play with them.

>> No.7093234

>>7093225
>might as well be saying "the sky is blue".
Sure feels like it. All I'm saying is that if you change the rules of the game, you're not playing the same version of the game as other people. Even if you don't play the same way as other people (skipping some secret items or whatever), you still have the same range of options available to you if you both stick to the default settings.

>> No.7093237

>>7089275
You were not challenged at all, there were no stakes when you know you can go back 3 seconds again and again until you do something right or get a good rng.

Might as well watch the longplay of the game on youtube.

>> No.7093246

>>7093234
So you basically retract the other point you made, which I argued against, basically admitting you were wrong. OK no problem. We can't all defend our arguments so don't feel too bad about it I'm sure you'll win the next one.

>> No.7093247

>>7093167
>This doesn't make any sense because there is no correct way to play a game.

I didn't say anything about a correct way to play a game. When you preclude any chance of failure, you miss out on that part of the experience. Its like playing a poker game and you just reload every time you lose a hand. You didn't get good at poker.

>> No.7093248
File: 403 KB, 415x450, smug.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7093248

>>7093246
I accept your concession.

>> No.7093258

>>7093225
Just noticed you weren't even quoting one of my posts there despite replying to me. Not that it matters much, the other anon is right too.

>> No.7093292
File: 140 KB, 900x709, 1591213795777.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7093292

>>7089314
>>7090815
Utterly BTFO'd. Can OP ever recover from this third degree burn on his asshole?

>> No.7093331

>>7089275
Save scum is why some developers lock achievements behind the ironman mode now.

>> No.7093816

>>7093189
Everything offends zoomies. Our society is doomed