/vr/ - Retro Games

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Anonymous Wed May 22 14:40:57 2013 No.705371 [Reply] [Original]

Why?

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 14:41:26 2013 No.705380 Microsoft

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 14:43:56 2013 No.705389 >>705380 Thread

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 14:48:27 2013 No.705409 People kept quitting, deadlines kept being missed, nintendo told them to fuck off, microsoft finished the job

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 14:48:27 2013 No.705410 >>705380 Rare was going to shit before the acquisition anyway. Microsoft fucked up by buying what was left of them.

Anonymous Wed May 22 14:49:27 2013 No.705420

>>705380
>>705389
It's not just that actually.

A large chunk of the team (mostly those responsible for GoldenEye and PD) left and made Free Radical, creators, of course, of the Timesplitters series.

Unforunately they also went to hell and have been now acquired by Crytek, who don't have a fucking clue what to do with them.

Idk OP. Creative sparks come and go. They were at the right place at the right time when they were there but they've extinguished since then, sadly. The split didn't help and neither did fucking Microsoft.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 14:53:27 2013 No.705439 File: 27 KB, 364x366, 1364798418958.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>705420 I spent many an hour playing timesplitters 2 when I was younger. Good times.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 14:59:26 2013 No.705475 they were already starting to become shit during n64 days turds like Tooie, DK64 and Fur Day are a testament to that

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 15:03:26 2013 No.705487 >>705475 Tooie and DK64 being called turds? Well I never...

Anonymous Wed May 22 15:04:26 2013 No.705494

Tons of people in charge of their better games quit the company.
They had tons of issues with deadlines so Nintendo stopped supporting their bullshit.
Their games by the Gamecube era were getting worse and worse.

Microsoft was just the final nail since they had no idea what to do with the remaining portion of Rare.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 15:13:27 2013 No.705538 >>705487 They are though. Not even the same poster.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 15:14:27 2013 No.705543 File: 13 KB, 399x291, tommy lee serious.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>705475 >conker's bad fur day >shit

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 15:33:26 2013 No.705636 >>705543 I think he meant shit as a character in the game. I remember some singing shit in bad fur day.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 15:42:56 2013 No.705665 >>705543 >actually liking BFG anyone who actually likes that game must have been one of those kids would press the fart buttons on Internet ads

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 15:50:57 2013 No.705695 File: 195 KB, 640x480, untitled.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>705665 But, who doesn't like the BFG?

Anonymous Wed May 22 16:48:57 2013 No.705879

>>705380
Microsoft had nothing to do with it.
Everything I've ever read on the subject says that Microsoft was very accommodating and gave Rare complete creative freedom. There was perhaps even less executive meddling than when they were owned by Nintendo, if you buy into the idea that Miyamoto had anything to do with Dinosaur Planet becoming Star Fox Adventures.
Rare went to shit on its own.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 17:08:26 2013 No.705942 >>705636 I remember a video saying that Bad Fur Day was the cause of why Rare went to shit, but i can't find the video now.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 17:20:56 2013 No.705994 What do you mean why? They're not a company worth crying over. Their last good games were on the NES.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 17:23:56 2013 No.706003 >>705994 > Their last good games were on the NES. 3edgy7me

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 17:26:26 2013 No.706010 >>705994 What kind of moron shits on the Donkey Kong Country games, but would defend Snake Rattle 'n' Roll and the Wizards and Warriors games?

Anonymous Wed May 22 19:01:21 2013 No.706332

>>705420
>A large chunk of the team (mostly those responsible for GoldenEye and PD) left and made Free Radical, creators, of course, of the Timesplitters series.
That really doesn't explain anything though. Those guys were brand new to Rare and video games in general and Goldeneye was the first game most of them ever made. Perfect Dark was started by them, but it was mostly done by other people after they had already left. So unless you believe Goldeneye was Rare's only good game, their departure doesn't explain the decline.

Anonymous Wed May 22 19:05:57 2013 No.706350

>>705487
They were good, but they werent as pure and easy to pick up and play like BK.

You had to backtrack, go through levels in different ways etc.

In BK, you can beat a level the moment you enter.

BT and DK64 are still great if you're willing to put in the time to play and have wonderful presentation like graphics and music. It's just hard to sink your teeth into.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 19:06:57 2013 No.706359 >>706010 DKC ain't got shit on battletoads

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 19:07:58 2013 No.706368 >>706359 There were BattleToads games on the SNES.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 19:07:58 2013 No.706373 >>706350 >wonderful presentation like graphics and music. and the wonderful 5 fps

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 19:08:58 2013 No.706379 >>706368 you mean the port?

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 19:09:57 2013 No.706383 >>706379 More of a remake than a port. I mean, unless you're the kind of asshole that would call Gunstar Super Heroes a "port".

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 19:10:57 2013 No.706386 >>706379 battletoads in battlemaniacs and battletoads & double dragon they aint ports

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 19:13:28 2013 No.706402 >>706386 But they are, there's nothing different content wise, besides shittier looking graphics and shittier sounding music

Anonymous Wed May 22 19:14:28 2013 No.706407

>>706386
Battlemaniacs is more of a sequel with less levels and Battletoads and DD is a port of the crossover game which also released on NES and Genesis.

It has the best music of course, though.

In fact, all the games have marvellous music.

OH DAVID WISE.... when will you resurface to bring us amazing music you beautiful british bastard. I crave DonkeyKongCountry2Returns.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 19:17:28 2013 No.706413 File: 29 KB, 450x336, wtf are you doing.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>705410 SO MUCH THIS. It's almost like they were nostalgiafagging a-la rich college kids re-buying n64s.

>>	vamp-killa !!wqoTysh53jf Wed May 22 19:19:57 2013 No.706423 >>705475 DK 64 was complete garbage. I'm glad someone else on here has the balls to say it

Anonymous Wed May 22 19:27:27 2013 No.706446

>>706423
Complete garbage?
It just has way too much collecting, to the point that an otherwise very enjoyable game is almost unbearable to play.
I'd say it's an extremely flawed game. There's great content, but you have to trudge through so much tedious bullshit to get to it that it really isn't worth it for the average person.

>>	vamp-killa !!wqoTysh53jf Wed May 22 19:28:57 2013 No.706453 >>706446 It had the DK rap, it was beyond flawed.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 19:32:57 2013 No.706470 >>706453 There are a lot of things I will tolerate on this board, but hate for the DK Rap is something I am not prepared to forgive. Eat shit pleb.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 19:45:57 2013 No.706531 File: 81 KB, 500x333, 1350701278_7c4601c03a.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >DK64 >watermelon life-bars >coconut guns >rap >black people as gorillas Am I the only one who noticed DK64 was super racist?

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 19:46:57 2013 No.706538 >>706453 of all the things to hate on in DK64 the Monkey Rap is definitely not one of them unless you're one of those super soft libertarians who've been fed political correctness all their life

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 19:49:57 2013 No.706553 >>706531 and Mario says Mamma Mia and likes to eat Pasta stereotypes are not inherently racist

Anonymous Wed May 22 19:50:27 2013 No.706556

Probably one of the most overrated developers in history were Rareware, whose popularity stems entirely from being Nintendo's main second-party company throughout the SNES and N64 eras. Rare's speciality was making poor imitations of whatever was popular at the time. Battletoads was the poor-man's Final Fight/Double Dragon, Donkey Kong Country the poor-man's Mario, Goldeneye/PD the poor man's Quake/Unreal/Half-Life, Killer Instinct was the poor man's Mortal Kombat (which was the poor man's Street Fighter II) and Banjo-Kazooie/Donkey Kong 64 the poor man's Mario 64. When the Xbox rolled around Rare were snatched up by Microsoft to a large outcry and it's generally agreed that they have gone downhill since. The joke is that they were never that good to begin with, and they only seem bad now because they're no longer being observed by desperate Nintendo fans who don't have any other options.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 19:53:27 2013 No.706574 File: 2.72 MB, 640x360, verginia acted demickey.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>706556 I don't even know where to begin explaining what is wrong with your argument.

Anonymous Wed May 22 19:56:57 2013 No.706594

Can we single-handedly blame Rare for the death of the 3D platformer genre?

Things like Mario 64 and Crash set a pretty good precedent for the genre but their effort was ruined by a wave of 'collectathon' garbage which as far as I can tell started with Banjo-Kazooie, Tooie and DK64.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 19:57:27 2013 No.706601 >>706574 he's right, most of their IPs are 2nd or 3rd rate knock offs of whatever was popular at the time, with a few exceptions like JFG

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 19:59:58 2013 No.706605 >>706594 it started earlier with games like Yoshi's Island and platformers were pretty popular on PS2, with Jack and Dexter, Sly and that other duo with the robot.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 20:01:27 2013 No.706615 >>706413 That can't be healthy.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 20:01:57 2013 No.706620 >>706601 >not a knock-off of tomb-raider

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 20:02:28 2013 No.706621 File: 73 KB, 598x450, MP (20).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>706553 It is when it is against black people Check yo privilege white boy.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 20:02:28 2013 No.706624 >>706605 >yoshi's island >3D platformer Although it is true that there are 2D platformers with collectathon gameplay. Unsurprisingly the main example of that would be DKC3.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 20:02:28 2013 No.706626 >>706556 >ignoring all the 10/10 games they made as Ultimate Play The Game

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 20:02:28 2013 No.706629 >>706531 No, but it's dumb. >Everyone likes watermelon >Guns are everywhere and are an effective weapon >Rap was at the time and is popular

Anonymous Wed May 22 20:02:58 2013 No.706628

>>706601
And yet they aren't. Most of their games are just as good, often times arguably better, than others out there.
They were similar, but they were never copies. They took good concepts, and blew them out of the water. A good example of this would be their platformers. SM64 is good, but Banjo-Kazooie is arguably a better product.

You also cannot compare Goldeneye, PD, or CBFD to much at all. Goldeneye was based off rail-shooters and some of the earliest workings of FPS stealth mechanics. PD was its spiritual successor, taking all the mechanics and whatnot, and expanding on everything. CBFD was far more than SM64 could ever dream to be, with all the varied mechanics, multiplayer, etc.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 20:03:28 2013 No.706631 >>706620 are you insane? They play nothing alike

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 20:05:27 2013 No.706639 I don't get retroactive Rare haters. It's like they feel like the legacies of whatever games they're nostalgiafags for are being somehow challenged by Rare's.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 20:05:57 2013 No.706640 >>706531 >Pokerap ZOMG RACIST

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 20:07:27 2013 No.706647 >>706628 >Banjo-Kazooie is arguably a better product. no, it only has prettier packaging, the gameplay is not even in the same league as SM64. BK is closer to Croc than SM64

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 20:07:27 2013 No.706648 File: 37 KB, 500x375, uprobnevaheardofit.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>706639 It's because Rare is popular

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 20:08:27 2013 No.706657 >>706647 >opinions They're both solid games, and one cannot really be called worse than the other.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 20:08:57 2013 No.706660 >>706628 >CBFD was far more than SM64 could ever dream to be so much delusion it hurts It's actually Rare couldn't make anything that matched SM64 in terms of gameplay, so they went for juvenile edgy teens instead

Anonymous Wed May 22 20:10:28 2013 No.706671

>>706628
>They were similar, but they were never copies. They took good concepts, and blew them out of the water. A good example of this would be their platformers. SM64 is good, but Banjo-Kazooie is arguably a better product.

No, it is not arguable at all.

Mario 64 had tight, accurate controls and excellent physics, great level design and its gameplay was the natural evolution of 2D platforming into 3 dimensions.

Banjo-Kazooie had shitty physics and inaccurate platforming, tons of tacked on elements that didn't work at all (like the shooting) and worst of all, its collectathon gameplay which completely missed the point of the advancements Mario made in its jump to 3D.

There is no context in which a pile of shit like Banjo-Kazooie can be considered a better game than Mario 64.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 20:11:58 2013 No.706675 >>706660 I'm not even talking about the "edgy juvenile" content, I'm talking gameplay. >>706639 It'll be a mystery for all time. Maybe they ran out of actual arguments so they're just gonna start attacking things they know most people love.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 20:12:58 2013 No.706681 >>706671 There's plenty of context, it's called you're an angry individual who can continue to have his own opinions and I can continue to enjoy things.

Anonymous Wed May 22 20:13:28 2013 No.706689

Rareware where amazing devs that could produce gold from any genre they tackled. This was due to the combination of highly talented members working under management that encouraged a good level of togetherness and friendly internal competitiveness. The members often worked very long hours and overtime. To top it all of Nintendo was always there to support them and give a tug on the reigns when needed.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 20:14:28 2013 No.706693 >>706689 Didn't Nintendo actually cut their funding for Goldeneye, resulting them in getting no money for a while, or am I thinking of something else entirely?

Anonymous Wed May 22 20:15:57 2013 No.706701

>>706675
>I'm talking gameplay

then they're not really in the same category, because platforming elements sucked ass in BFD. Half the time you were shooting things at 5 fps. The rest of the time you were running around doing some point and click adventure grade bullshit, trying to trigger next event.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 20:18:27 2013 No.706714 >>706639 It's because I used to like Rare too until faglords like you appeared and started shitting on related games that I liked.

Anonymous Wed May 22 20:18:27 2013 No.706715
File: 585 KB, 578x617, what do you mean you didnt bring the chicken nuggets.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>706701
If they're not in the same category, stop comparing the two. Every single person that claims to hate Rare can never come up with a good reason why they suck other than "their games were similar to other games" and "CBFD was immature".

That's aside from the tidal wave of >opinions.

Anonymous Wed May 22 20:19:27 2013 No.706719

>>706681

Opinions imply subjectivity.

'Banjo-Kazooie's physics were sloppy and inaccurate which is unacceptable in a genre based around precision platforming' is as much of an opinion as 'this car is shitty because the brakes don't work' is an opinion.

You are free to enjoy whatever you like but you also need to realise that statements of quality can be and often are wrong and that reasoning out these statements is part of debate.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 20:19:57 2013 No.706723 >>706715 I didn't even make the comparison, I straight out shat all over it

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 20:20:57 2013 No.706728 >>706719 "The physics weren't the same as this other thing I like so it sucking is fact". >>706723 You straight out had opinions everywhere under the guise of being something else.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 20:22:58 2013 No.706738 >>706715 I don't understand how someone can deride CBFD as being 'immature' and then change the topic to how great Leisure Suit Larry is. But I keep seeing it happen.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 20:24:28 2013 No.706742 >>705665 >I only play mature games for mature gamers such as myself

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 20:24:57 2013 No.706747 >>706719 >muh physics mufugga >ignores music, graphics, level design, mission/goal variety

Anonymous Wed May 22 20:26:27 2013 No.706748

>>706728
>You straight out had opinions everywhere under the guise of being something else.

don't backpedal on me fucker, the only ones constantly making comparisons to other games are Rare fans. Everythime you slimy fuckers talk about BK or what have you, you always have an urge to shit on Mario games or some other game Rare decided to mangle

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 20:26:58 2013 No.706751 >>706747 Who even cares? His opinion on the physics is terrible anyway. BK has perfect physics and a much better camera than SM64.

Anonymous Wed May 22 20:28:57 2013 No.706759

>>706748
You need comparisons to draw to, and the closer the comparison the better. The only good platformer that the most people know on the N64 is SM64 so it's the best comparison, and I'm sorry, but it's not the perfect little flower most people make it out to be.
I'm not saying anything Rare has done has been perfect, but I'm not gonna think SM64 was perfect, either.

Anonymous Wed May 22 20:29:57 2013 No.706762

>>706748
Oh look, exactly what I was talking about
>>706639

I think this whole mess might have started with the fake DKC Miyamoto quote (you know the one.) Nintendo fans believed they heard the call of their pope and went on a crusade.

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2010/06/turns_out_shigeru_miyamoto_does_like_donkey_kong_country

Anonymous Wed May 22 20:33:27 2013 No.706773

>>706751

>gameplay focused on hover-jumps to compensate for sluggish and inaccurate platforming
>perfect physics

Stay deluded, pleb.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NAmL4tjFzk

None of the incredible feats in this video would be possible in a shovelware platformer like Banjo. Oh well, I guess not every game can have the near-flawless mechanics of Mario 64.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 20:33:57 2013 No.706778 >>706628 >CBFD was far more than SM64 could ever dream to be I love that game but damn, man. Not only are you comparing completly different games, you are also overrating CBFD really fucking hard.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 20:34:57 2013 No.706783 >>706773 I agree with you and I still think you're an asshole.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 20:34:57 2013 No.706785 >>706693 No, that's true.

Anonymous Wed May 22 20:35:27 2013 No.706789

>>706762
>I think this whole mess might have started with the fake DKC Miyamoto quote (you know the one.) Nintendo fans believed they heard the call of their pope and went on a crusade.

Is it really so hard to believe that people even back then though DKC was shit? I was around 9 and got bored to tears of it.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 20:35:57 2013 No.706791 >>706556 >BattleToads >poor-man's Final Fight/Double Dragon Are you retarded? BattleToads is barely a beat 'em up at all past the first level. Did you just never get that far?

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 20:36:28 2013 No.706792 >>706773 >near-flawless If you suck that dick any harder, you're bound to pull a muscle. >>706778 Someone needs to offset the people like the other guy I quoted, who somehow believe SM64 is the hottest shit since tits.

Anonymous Wed May 22 20:37:58 2013 No.706797

>>706789
None of you ever seem to be able to articulate why it's so shit outside of "graphics aged badly" "leaps of faith" (Which aren't actually in the game) "too many collectibles" (When there are about as many as any 2D Mario platformer) and the favorite go-to vague buzzword "clunky."

Anonymous Wed May 22 20:41:27 2013 No.706810

Mario 64
>stars are the natural evolution of the end-of-level exits in 2D platformers, which is why picking them up ends the level. Collecting them isn't the goal, beating their challenges is, with the stars being the metric to represent your progress. Each star restructures the level in a specific way tailored to that challenge. There's 120 total and you need a fraction of them to beat the game.

Banjo-Kazooie
>Jiggies are junk scattered all over the levels for you to collect and collecting them is the goal itself. Most don't even come from completing challenges, they're just scattered across the level for you to find to pad out the already glacially slow pacing of the game. They do nothing interesting to the level design as you can pick them all up in one run of the level. You need 90% of them to beat the game (as well as collecting several other types of junk).

Could Rare have missed the point any harder?

Oh wait, they did. In Donkey Kong 64.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 20:41:57 2013 No.706812 >>706792 > believe SM64 is the hottest shit since tits. In comparison to BK, and many other platformers it is pretty hot shit.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 20:43:27 2013 No.706818 >>706810 And Tooie, which was a step in the right direction and 20 steps in a very wrong one.

Anonymous Wed May 22 20:44:27 2013 No.706820

>>706810
Or maybe they wanted to make their own game because they knew that if they did the same thing as SM64 that game would forever be known as "that ripoff of SM64".

>OH GOD THIS GAME IS DIFFERENT

Get over yourself.

>>706812
I disagree. I like both games, but I don't think one is notably better than the other.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 20:45:27 2013 No.706827 >>706820 >Or maybe they wanted to make their own game because they knew that if they did the same thing as SM64 that game would forever be known as "that ripoff of SM64". But it already is considered that.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 20:46:28 2013 No.706828 >>706827 Only by people like those in this thread who are clamoring all over SM64's dick and take personal, autistic offense over people who don't share their opinions.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 20:46:58 2013 No.706834 >>706827 Apparently not on here.

Anonymous Wed May 22 20:49:27 2013 No.706842

>>706810
>stars are the natural evolution of the end-of-level exits in 2D platformers
No they aren't.
Something like Crash Bandicoot or Rayman 2 is the obvious progression from 2D to 3D.

I don't understand how you can go from:
>tons of levels, obstacle-course-like design, emphasis is on overcoming challenges while getting from A to B
to:
>few levels, open design, emphasis is on exploring and finding B.
and call that "natural evolution".
What the fuck sense is that supposed to make?

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 20:50:27 2013 No.706846 >>705487 Tooie is a masterpiece. Don't let anyone tell you differently. DK64 was fun, it was just a disaster looking back.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 20:51:57 2013 No.706849 >>706842 This

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 20:54:27 2013 No.706852 >>706842 This man gets it.

Anonymous Wed May 22 21:01:27 2013 No.706871

>>706797

>>706797

The clunky feel is because of graphical style, where you can't precisely distinguish where the ledges end or begin, same with enemies. leading to many annoying death, leading to feeling of leaps of faith, thanks to Rare placing many collectibles in hard to reach areas.

Does it all hang together now or are you going to continue playing ignorant?

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 21:04:57 2013 No.706887 >>706842 >games that rehash the gameplay of 2D games, but with 3D graphics >'obvious progression' Everyone get a load of this dipshit.

Anonymous Wed May 22 21:05:57 2013 No.706891

>>706842

oh, you're one those people who can't function in nonelinear games, thanks for ruining it for the rest of us

the only real difference is that the challenges are smashed together in a single level, instead of having 20 small segmented samey environments like in Galaxy

Anonymous Wed May 22 21:14:27 2013 No.706937

>>706887
>games with totally different gameplay altogether
>'natural evolution'

Everyone get a load of this dipshit.

>>706891
>oh, you're one those people who can't function in nonelinear games
I never said nonlinear was worse than linear, or vice versa. Don't put words in my mouth.
It's just different. You CANNOT call it a "natural evolution" without looking like a retard.

>the only real difference is that the challenges are smashed together in a single level
If you cannot see the difference between between surviving a series of obstacles and set-pieces, and finding 5 secrets/collecting 8 red coins/collecting 100 coins/pounding Chomp's stake 3 times/etc. then I don't know what to tell you.
I'm not sure you'd be smart enough to even read what I'd tell you, so it would hardly matter anyway.

Anonymous Wed May 22 21:24:57 2013 No.706973

>>706937
>finding 5 secrets/collecting 8 red coins/collecting 100 coins/pounding Chomp's stake 3 times/etc. then I don't know what to tell you.

those are the goals, not how you achieve them. Entirely skippable as well,

If you'd look past the first 3 stages which are easy as fuck anyways and are meant to be tutorials for the player to get used to the controls, then you'd see that it is the natural progression, it's most pronounced in the Bowser Stages, Shifting Sand Land, Lava level, Tick Tock Clock, Rainbow Ride, The mountain, the underground level.

The all have their share of obstacles to overcome before getting the star

Anonymous Wed May 22 21:32:28 2013 No.706996

>>706937

>2D platformer becomes 3D
>no longer possible to represent the end of the level with an exit due to being able to explore in three dimensions
>choose to represent the stage exit with a star awarded for completing a challenge, that immediately ends the level when you acquire it

How is this not a natural evolution? Especially compared to BK which forced the player to backtrack to the entrance to leave the level because Rare were too stupid to understand the evolution of game design.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 21:39:27 2013 No.707016 >>706996 Maybe giving you the freedom to do everything a level had to offer in one go instead of forcing you to pointlessly exit and re-enter the same level over and over again each time you accomplish something was an improvement, ever think of that?

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 21:41:57 2013 No.707023 How many times are we going to have the same, tired old thread?

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 21:43:27 2013 No.707028 >>707023 Well when your entire topic of discussion is tired old things you tend to get tired old discussions.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 21:47:58 2013 No.707052 >>706871 its true that it can be hard to tell exactly where to jump on enemies to kill them and such, but i find you get used to that within like 2 levels

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 21:48:27 2013 No.707054 >>707016 ya that's what I liked about Banjo Kazooie, you can get everything in one go, with one of two jiggies being an exception because you have to go to Freezeezy Peak or Gobi's Desert first in order to get all of the jiggies in the other.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 21:49:28 2013 No.707061 >>706010 The DKC games were always incredibly mediocre platformers that only got attention for their pre-rendered graphics.

Anonymous Wed May 22 21:52:27 2013 No.707082

>>706973
The Bowser stages are entirely linear obstacle courses, like Rayman 2, or Crash Bandicoot. If SM64 was entirely levels like that, it would not be a collect-a-thon.

I'm just not seeing your point with the other levels. There's often a handful of simple obstacles concentrated in one tiny area where some star is, but the emphasis is still largely on figuring out what to do or where to go, or even puzzle solving.
It's just not comparable to a typical level in your typical 2D platformer.

>>706996
>no longer possible to represent the end of the level with an exit due to being able to explore in three dimensions
>choose to represent the stage exit with a star awarded for completing a challenge, that immediately ends the level when you acquire it
What the fuck are you talking about?
Mario has ALWAYS ended his levels by touching some object in the 2D games, whether that object be a flagpole, some bird head mask thing on the wall, a box that cycles through items, an item chest, some Koopa Kid's magic wand, a goal post... thing, or a ring of... flowers, if you collected the flowers...
There's NEVER been some abstract, could-only-be-represented-in-2D, "exit".

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 21:54:27 2013 No.707093 File: 119 KB, 524x519, JC Denton.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>707061 Do you have a single argument to back that opinion up?

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 21:56:58 2013 No.707104 >>707061 No. The DKC games are incredibly well made and incredibly generic platformers. It's definitely top tier stuff, it's just nothing you haven't seen before.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 21:57:28 2013 No.707106 Is there a good 3D platformer out there that is about as hard as 2D ones?

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 21:58:58 2013 No.707113 >>707106 Which "2D ones" do you mean?

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 21:59:28 2013 No.707117 >>707106 Medievil and maximo?

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 21:59:28 2013 No.707120 >>707106 Glover. Glover is hard.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 22:00:57 2013 No.707126 >>706996 >pointlessly exit and re-enter the same level over and over again It was never the 'same' level.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 22:01:27 2013 No.707132 >>707113 I guess you could take SMB3 as average difficulty.

Anonymous Wed May 22 22:01:28 2013 No.707127

>>707061
along with the cool and inventive graphics at the time we got
>responsive controls
>new shit as you progress
>great soundtrack
>new enemies as you progress
>steady increase in difficulty
>secrets

Back then, the only people that didnt like the game were people who never got to play them and were bitter about hearing all about it on the playground or park, so they talk shit because they can't add anything to the convo.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 22:04:27 2013 No.707142 >>707016 It was never the 'same' level. >>707082 Yeah, because you could walk past the flagpole or goal post, right? The end of level markers in Mario were just an abstract representation of the player having reached the far right of the level.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 22:06:27 2013 No.707146 >>707142 >It was never the 'same' level. Sometimes they would alter the level slightly for specific stars, but hardly anything substantial. Most starts you could easily get regardless of which star you actually selected.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 22:13:28 2013 No.707173 >people actually defending Fetch Quest: The Platformer It's 2013 guys. We're adults now, we can afford to buy multiple systems. We don't need to be held hostage by Rare's mediocre shovelware because our parents bought us an N64 instead of a PSX.

Anonymous Wed May 22 22:13:28 2013 No.707174

>>707142
>The end of level markers in Mario were just an abstract representation of the player having reached the far right of the level
I'm not seeing your point.

Are you saying they couldn't have something like, say, a pipe at the end of a linear level, because it was a 3D game?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E85dMv52teQ&t=1m45s

Anonymous Wed May 22 22:13:58 2013 No.707178
File: 2.94 MB, 295x221, 1350348426315.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

by the end of the N64's life Rare games had started out doing nintendo games in sales. With rare releasing 3x as many games an Nintendo a year something had to be done.

Microsoft did not but Rare. Rare was sold

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 22:16:28 2013 No.707191 >>707173 It's 2013 now dude. It's time to move on and troll about newer games. Here, I've even found the proper place to do just that for you: >>>/v/

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 22:16:28 2013 No.707192 >>707178 >Microsoft did not but Rare. Rare was sold By Rare.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 22:24:27 2013 No.707218 >>707117 Huh? Those are 3D action games with bits of platforming in them, they'd suck as pure platformers. The platinum relic challenges in Crash Bandicoot 3 are the greatest examples of difficult and FUN platforming in 3D I've encountered.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 22:26:57 2013 No.707220 I am surprised CBFD was brought up and yet the thread still goes on. I have never seen a thread NOT get derailed and crashed once it has been mentioned.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 22:34:27 2013 No.707242 >>707192 No, Nintendo sold their majority share of the company, severing their 2nd party status

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 22:41:57 2013 No.707267 >>707242 No, Rare sold their 51% of their stock to MS and Nintendo sold theirs afterwords, presumably because they had no interest in owning 49% of a company that was Microsoft's.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 23:20:57 2013 No.707408 >mfw all this Mario 64 vs. DK64/BK/CBFD fighting when they don't even realize the only worthwhile '90s 3D platformer was Spyro series lel, Nintendofags

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 23:27:57 2013 No.707446 >>707408 >implying Rayman 2 wasn't the best, followed by the Crash Bandicoot series and Rocket: Robot on Wheels LOL

Anonymous Thu May 23 01:28:27 2013 No.707905

>>706332
>>A large chunk of the team (mostly those responsible for GoldenEye and PD) left and made Free Radical, creators, of course, of the Timesplitters series.
This is a half-truth. Only four members from the original 9 left to form Free Radical. Lead designer Martin Hollis left Rareware 18 months into PD's development to work on the Gamecube. Free Radical are not that closely related to Rareware - and the parts that are - mostly come from the GE team. Rareware had several teams, remember. One working on the series which became Banjo, one working on Conker, and the GE\PD team.

Anonymous Thu May 23 02:58:27 2013 No.708282

>>705879

No. That is totally assbackwards. The Stampers themselves said in an interview that with Nintendo they had complete creative control. Grant Kirkhope and Chris Seavor have gone on record saying that Microsoft changed the structure of the company a ton.

>>	Anonymous Thu May 23 05:02:58 2013 No.708554 >>707446 >Rayman >ever good shitty dynamite headdy clone at best

>>	Anonymous Thu May 23 05:09:57 2013 No.708580 >>708554 Whatever nerd. Dynamite Headdy is just a Plok clone anyway.

>>	Anonymous Thu May 23 05:16:28 2013 No.708597 >>707446 Rayman was never good.

>>	Anonymous Thu May 23 05:20:27 2013 No.708607 Gentlemen, let us be at peace with the death of Rare and enjoy the creations they left behind. Here we have Rare's sublime rendition of "Ow My Balls!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EOWybrrsWw

>>	Anonymous Thu May 23 05:30:29 2013 No.708645 >>708554 >>708597 >Rayman >Rayman 2 >Rayman Origins >not some of the best platformers ever made Cute. Best I can give you is a 0/10 though.

>>	Anonymous Thu May 23 11:18:39 2013 No.709580 >>708645 you replied, nigger. he deserves at least a 2 'cause you seemed fairy buttmad about it.

>>	Anonymous Thu May 23 18:40:59 2013 No.711280 >>707093 >deus ex Fuck man, we need a thread about that shit.

>>	Anonymous Thu May 23 18:48:28 2013 No.711318 >>705439 Best times.

>>	Anonymous Thu May 23 19:00:28 2013 No.711368 File: 15 KB, 191x263, images (1).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Thu May 23 19:08:01 2013 No.711407 >>706556 10/10. Is going to get everyone buttmad.

>>	Anonymous Thu May 23 19:11:01 2013 No.711417 >>705665 0/10 try harder

Anonymous Thu May 23 19:25:01 2013 No.711458

>>711417
I love almost everything Rare has ever produced, but I will never be able to understand the appeal of their collectathon platformers for the N64.
DK64 in particular was the biggest fucking chore on the planet. I don't mind collecting jiggies/golden bananas/whatever, since they're just a marker for completing a mission, but stuff like the colored bananas, blueprints, banana fairies, medals, music notes and jinjos just took the concept way too far. They are some of the most tedious games I've ever played.

>>	Anonymous Thu May 23 20:19:32 2013 No.711702 >>705371 Because people in Rare are jew and instead of sticking with Nintendo where they had a great partnership they decided to sell out themselved to Microsoft. At least we got Kameo - Elements of Power for Xbox360, their last, great game.

>>	Anonymous Thu May 23 20:23:03 2013 No.711724 >>711458 CBFD isnt about collecting. You have to pick up the money but thats it.

>>	Anonymous Thu May 23 20:24:02 2013 No.711726 File: 52 KB, 700x306, gfs_2539_2_9.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] The best Battletoads game.

>>	Anonymous Fri May 24 15:23:04 2013 No.715264 >>705994 >jet force gemini >not good

>>	Anonymous Fri May 24 15:27:34 2013 No.715269 File: 75 KB, 1142x391, maxpan.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>711726 special taito triple wide edition

>>	Anonymous Fri May 24 15:38:34 2013 No.715305 >>715264 Eh, personally I didn't like JFG, I the constant backtracking and controls put me off.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 25 02:13:39 2013 No.717689 >>706621 >or normal I lol'd

Anonymous Sat May 25 02:18:37 2013 No.717702
File: 109 KB, 500x370, human_nature.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>705371
>Why?
Looking out
Across the nighttime
The city winks a sleepless eye
Hear her voice
Shake my window
Sweet seducing sighs

Get me out
Into the nighttime
Four walls won't hold me tonight
If this town
Is just an apple
Then let me take a bite

If they say,
Why, why, tell 'em that it's human nature
Why, why, does he do it that way
If they say,
Why, why, tell 'em that it's human nature
Why, why does he do me that way

Reaching out
To touch a stranger
Electric eyes are everywhere
See that girl
She knows I'm watching
She likes the way I stare

If they say,
Why, why, tell 'em that it's human nature
Why, why, does he do me that way
If they say,
Why, why, tell 'em that it's human nature
Why, why does he do me that way

I like livin' this way
I like lovin' this way

(That way) Why why
(That way) Why why

Looking out
Across the morning
Where the city's heart begins to beat
Reaching out
I touch her shoulder
I'm dreaming of the street

If they say,
Why, why, tell 'em that it's human nature
Why, why, does he do me that way
If they say,
Why, why, tell 'em that it's human nature
Why, why does he do me that way
>DOES THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 25 05:17:35 2013 No.718084 >>705439 So many hours spent trying to 100% it back then. I'll still boot it up on pcsx2 just to snipe watermelons out the hands of monkeys

Anonymous Sat May 25 05:25:04 2013 No.718107

>>711458
Have you even played BFD? It's not even a collectathon.

Not even close, it's more of a point-A to point-B platformer, where the money you have to get is just at point-B. And half the time, your immediate goal isn't money, it's kicking the ass of some yokel, or shooting mass produced nazi teddy bears.

Anonymous Sat May 25 07:04:05 2013 No.718268
File: 1.02 MB, 4000x3568, squall_face.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I never particularly found anything Rare made to be of acceptable quality except maybe Snake Rattle 'n' Roll and DKC and even those are thoroughly mediocre. That said I did enjoy the concepts of Wizards and Warriors even if they were terrible games. It seems everybody has a boner for this company due to the DKC series and Goldeneye or Perfect Dark, all of which I never enjoyed (console FPS games never did it for me and Perfect Dark was just an expansion pack tech demo). Whatever floats your boat I guess.

Anonymous Sat May 25 07:16:04 2013 No.718281

>>718268
>Perfect Dark was just an expansion pack tech demo

>fully fleshed out single player mode, detailed multiplayer mode that took Goldeneye's simple winning formula and improved on it, basically the middle ground between Goldeneye and Timesplitters

>tech demo

Fuck off. You may as well call any graphically impressive game a 'tech demo'.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 25 07:27:04 2013 No.718295 >>718268 lol what a bitch nigger

>>	Anonymous Sat May 25 07:38:35 2013 No.718303 Anybody that says Donkey Kong Country is "generic" or "mediocre" never got a 102% in DKC2.

Anonymous Sat May 25 07:45:34 2013 No.718313

>>718303

the first game is actually pretty generic (but still fun). Its a by-the-numbers platformer that does absolutely nothing new aside from having a cool tag mechanic. DKC2 is fantastic, DKC3 is a middle ground between the two (the only thing i don't really like about DKC3 is the aesthetics...boring dock levels, boring forest levels, boring mill levels, boring mountain levels as opposed to DKC2's amazingly vibrant, varied locales)

Anonymous Sat May 25 08:00:34 2013 No.718327

>>718313
Regarding aesthetics, I think the enemy design in that game was a bit lacking too bar one or two exceptions. I'm still of the opinion that they should have kept with the pirate theme for the Kremlings, but eh.
And I'm sorry, but you don't get rid of the fucking Zingers. Fuck that shit. Fuck Buzz.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 25 08:08:34 2013 No.718339 >>718327 the enemy design in DKC3 is just so non-threatening, everything just looks far too goofy and harmless.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 25 08:13:34 2013 No.718353 >>718268 Careful with all that edge, you might cut yourself.

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