Fighting Games

[Anonymous No.6926483]

/vr/ being the land of the jarpigs and fatformers, it's pretty difficult to get a sustained conversation about fighting games going. Now that 6th Gen is allowed, however, there should be far more to discuss.

Tell me, what do you think is the value of playing old fighting games? Emulation and ports give a lot of these a little bit of second life, and many scenes are still going about as strong as you could hope for, but what use is there for younger people to jump in, when new fighting games are released all the time, and even early 2010s & late 2000s games would be considered dated by today's standard?

Just about the only scene that manages to consistently attract young blood is Super Smash Bros. Melee, which many ignorant purists incessantly insist isn't a real fighting game. So there must be some failing with its peers (or, in said purists' deranged mind, "superiors"), certainly? The arcade boomers are not going to be around forever, and with their retirement, even long-lauded staples like Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike will find themselves without a playerbase, either of experts or entirely.

It's a doomsday scenario where modern fighting games continue to get worse, the fans of the genre become more casual, and the craft of playing fighting games becomes harder and harder to find. Again, only SSBM's community has managed to seize mainstream viewership, inspire hardcore devotion, champion the artistry, and maintain the competition. At the current rate, every other game will die out. And what's more, there isn't even a Canon of the best of the best yet, so young people don't even know what to come back to.

[Anonymous No.6926490]

>FGC
Nigger.

[Anonymous No.6926505]

>>6926490
phrase isn't used not once in that post

[Anonymous No.6926517]

Terrible opening line, but the rest of your post was alright.
I just play fighting games with a friend of mine, we've known each other since high school and every time we get together we waste a few hours in VS fighting games, mostly fatal fury special which is our favorite.

[Anonymous No.6926569]

I think there's a certain early era of fighting games where the genre and/or big series were finding themselves. Playing the original Street Fighter 2 is a curiosity at best. Playing the standouts of the series like Alpha 2 and 3, 3rd Strike, some others ( not the biggest SF fan so these are what I can recall ) where they distilled the games into their best forms is fun.

Then you have games that are unique for the genre due to the inclusion of weapons, or other gimmicks they used to try and stand out from SF2. Samurai Shodown, Soul Caliber, Mortal Kombat.

I think some 3d style games from the PS1/Saturn era have aged poorly because the graphics used at the time are no longer cutting edge. Some can kind of hurt to look at.
Games like Tekken, Virtua Fighter, Rival Schools, Bloody Roar. Some of the later entries in these series are playable in my opinion but the earlier ones really suffer for the emerging technology. 2d games hold up way better in my opinion because of that.

I still go back to play Marvel VS Capcom 2, SF Alpha 3, and Samurai Shodown with my friends; but it's definitely because we grew up playing them. Certainly the fighting game genre does not feel like it's as big with the current generation.


Honorable mention to King of Fighters, Garou, games like that, which I didn't play back in the day.

[Anonymous No.6926594]

>>6926569
>is fun
'Fun' really is a buzzword that people use to describe things they have trouble properly articulating. The vast majority of gamers don't consider fighting games "fun", and anyone who hasn't encountered fighting games before won't understand what about them is supposed to be enjoyable. It goes back to the problem of determining quality.
Yeah, we can look at games and easily say they have shit graphics or performance or sound design, terribly dated by today's standards---but gameplay is far more esoteric a matter that's fallaciously taken for granted, especially considering the huge gap between elitist standards and casual standards.
You mention, for example, all those names, and just assume their worth is self-evident, when really that's not even the case, with plenty of detractors especially for the Street Fighter games and arguments to be made for the superiority of later or even earlier Marvel vs. titles. And there's currently no effort to define the matter properly, where there can at least be a structured and productive debate on why this game or the other is the greatest or overrated or any other judgment.
If the mass of the playerbase is like you and your friends who just go for the trip down memory lane without thinking too hard about it, then fighting games will surely die out in our lifetimes, before old age.

[Anonymous No.6926630]

>Now that 6th Gen is allowed, however, there should be far more to discuss.
We could already discuss most currently played retro fighting games before the rule change (even Melty's first arcade release, and TH released in '00)
The only thing of note this added was DoA3 (DoA2 was peak 3D fighter and the only good DoA game), Tekken 4/5/Tag, Soulcalibur 2&3, VF5 (kek for many reasons), and all the DBZ & Naruto PS2 games.
and fucking touhou iamp
Outside of maybe VF5 (kek), none of those are currently played, and most of the community surrounding them has moved on to current (non-retro) entries.

I don't think there's much value in the current espawtz scene (or espawtz as a whole) around fightan, and I don't think there's any going back to a more couch or arcade spirit with the advent of the internet. Playing matches with other people over the line is fun, but it's nothing compared to having them next to you and sharing a few snacks. That's the value of old fighting games to me. And the home releases usually had more content than current releases. No DLC character stuff either, WYSIWYG. They're usually (surprisingly) easier to get into compared to newer games too.

Fightan' also had an unprecedented cultural value, you could make a fighting game out of any franchise at some point during 4th and 5th gen, but the steam slowly died over time, just like arcades. I think people in general slowly got bored of kudzu button combinations (didn't help that graphics and interactivity gains stopped being as huge by 6th) by the mid 00s. There's only so much you can gimmick.

On another hand,
>Which console do you think has the best fightan' library? (No PS2+1 compatibility combos)
The Dreamcast would probably the best console one could buy or emulate for fighting games for me, but it is missing Tekken (b-but bleem!!1).

[Anonymous No.6926691]

>>6926630
>The only thing of note this added was DoA3
DOA3 is not the only thing added but it was indeed major.
>DoA2 was peak 3D fighter and the only good DoA game
See, that's where you're wrong, as DOA2U is indeed a solid fighter (much better than most that have ever existed) and a bit of a must-play for the series, it's still inferior to DOA3 in terms of gameplay, and only beats it out in terms of the bossfights and amount of costumes. DOA3 took what was in DOA2 and improved upon it in almost every way, and for that it is one of if not the best retro 3D fighting games.
>all the DBZ & Naruto PS2 games
Those were much better than people generally give them credit for. I'm partial to Dragon Ball Z Budokai, and Naruto Ultimate Ninja 3 (maybe 2 & 4 as well but I'm not certain).
>Outside of maybe VF5 (kek), none of those are currently played
Nobody is promoting them or lauding them for them to be considered must-plays. And even if they were, how are you supposed to sell people on older Tekken, older Soul Calibur, and even older Dead Or Alive? Just saying "they're better" doesn't help any n00bs understand.
>it's nothing compared to having them next to you and sharing a few snacks
Couch play doesn't have to die. The issue is the likelihood of having people to meet up with and play the same game to an acceptable level is very low these days, for the issues already alluded to.
>That's the value of old fighting games to me.
You can do it with new fighting games, and far more easily.

[Anonymous No.6926705]

>>6926630
>Which console do you think has the best fightan' library?
With Xbox you get Dead Or Alive 2 Ultimate and DOA3, as well as Guilty Gear XX #Reload: a solid 3D fighter that you could play forever, and a solid 2D fighter you could play forever. You also get the Street Fighter collection to play SFII & SFIII 3S, as well as CVS2.

[Anonymous No.6926726]

>>6926691
You have bad opinions.

[Anonymous No.6926769]

>>6926726
Feel free to debate me ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQS88dhgP8A

[Anonymous No.6926797]

>>6926705
Also Capcom Fighting Jam, I love Anakaris.

[Anonymous No.6926856]

>>6926483
>what do you think is the value of playing old fighting games?
At least for early-ish 3D fighters, most weren't designed with competitive gaming in mind. As someone who isn't a fan of the genre, I still love firing up Tekken 3, Bloody Roar, Bushido Blade 2, Tech Romancer, and Soul Calibur precisely because of how unbalanced and wild they are. Similar to how one may dislike racing games, but enjoy something like Hydro Thunder.

I couldn't give a single fuck if the competitive scene died.

>>6926490
Based, but OP didn't mention that.

[Anonymous No.6927024]

[Anonymous No.6927030]

[Anonymous No.6927034]

[Anonymous No.6927056]

>fighters
Meme genre, just like MOBA and Arena FPS.

[Anonymous No.6927079]

>>6927056
>he shitposts in every thread
sad!

[Anonymous No.6927219]

>>6926483
Melee is not only the best fg but the best game of all time. I sincerely feel sorry for low IQ and/or insecure losers who can't see/admit the games beauty and transcendence.

[Anonymous No.6927271]

>>6927219
Speaking strictly retro, it has a lot to appreciate over a traditional fighting game, even over anime fighters.

[Anonymous No.6927282]

>>6926483
>value of playing old fighting games?
They were made to be fun, look fun and followed the rule of cool
>3s
already has a tiny playerbase
>fans of the genre become more casual
I want games to appeal to a wider variety of players like before.

I don't really know what your post is saying. I agree that fighting game players have failed themselves by dropping the ball on the community side though.

[Anonymous No.6927339]

>>6927282
>already has a tiny playerbase
in America & Europe
in Japan on the contrary, it has enough players to be as watchable as Melee's big names

[Anonymous No.6927391]

>>6927339
It's not that big. Wait a minute, you're the 3s autist that's been making stealth 3s threads for over a year just so you can argue about 3s right? You better not be.

[Anonymous No.6927403]

>>6927391
>you're the 3s autist that's been making stealth 3s threads for over a year
who?
how do you make a "stealth thread" about a game that's allowed on here?

[Anonymous No.6927461]

>>6926483
melee is separate from other locals because the players only care about melee/nintendo. really the game was solved around brawl and the only players are late to the game and hardcore nintendo fans.

i can understand your worry with modern fighters being permanently entry level, but ggpo based games are more popular than ever. fightcade 2 is pretty big and with things like parsec and casters, anything can be played online now.

[Anonymous No.6927464]

>>6927461
>really the game was solved around brawl and the only players are late to the game and hardcore nintendo fans
such an ignorant thing to say

[Anonymous No.6927465]

>>6927391
he got the n-card now

[Anonymous No.6927472]

>>6926490
Just because you can't compete with black people on a level playing field isno reason to throw a bigot tantrum any time you hear the genre mentioned. I know it must be hard to be as insecure as you are but no one else cares.

[Anonymous No.6927486]

>>6927403
Eh maybe not. There's a guy who makes vague fighting game threads and only does it to argue about 3s "theory" in the most asinine way.
Example: He'd make this thread but the entire purpose of the thread is so he argue about Q actually being a top tier character or some other shit.
>>6927461
Not sure that's quite right. Melee is separate because of it's lack of pedigree with arcades and street fighter II. I'd say it has more to do with FGC players not caring about Melee/Nintendo than the other way around. There's quite a lot of crossover now with only the most braindead FGC posters still falling for old Melee memes.
>the game was solved around brawl
Not sure what you mean by this.
Is fightcade 2 the real deal then? I've only tried it once or twice with my friend but haven't given it a fair shot yet. I was interested in MvC2 and CvS2 but they don't support rollback and there's desync issues and shit. I just want 3s matchmaking that doesn't involve capcum and their shitty business practices.

[Anonymous No.6927489]

>>6926483
>It's a doomsday scenario where modern fighting games continue to get worse, the fans of the genre become more casual, and the craft of playing fighting games becomes harder and harder to find.

Are you living in some alternate universe? Fighting games are massive these days.

[Anonymous No.6927513]

>>6927486
>There's a guy who makes vague fighting game threads and only does it to argue about 3s "theory" in the most asinine way.
>Example: He'd make this thread but the entire purpose of the thread is so he argue about Q actually being a top tier character or some other shit.
why would that bother you? do you only want nostalgia and coomer threads?

[Anonymous No.6927573]

>>6927513
Why would it bother me that some autist makes threads on repeat to drag people into his autistic fantasy? Is that a serious question? Do you think Q is top tier?

[Anonymous No.6927582]

>>6927573
>Why would it bother me that some autist makes threads on repeat
I never see 3rd Strike threads here, not even Street Fighter 2 threads for that matter. I only ever see people making Darkstalkers threads over and over again to get their rocks off.

[Anonymous No.6927597]

>>6927582
Answer my post

[Anonymous No.6927610]

>>6927597
Dude you seem as if you hate 3S period, like you have a grudge against anyone discussing it. When is the last time you made a 3rd Strike thread, and when is the last time its subject matter was about the finer points of the game or whatever?

[Anonymous No.6927630]

>>6927573
Not him and not the Q guy, but he is a character that was considered pretty much the worst for a long time and now that he's been figured out better is solid.

But even if what you said was all true I'm still with the other guy in wondering why that actually bothers you. If you think he's bottom tier then explain why. If you don't care that much about the game then why bother having any feelings at all?

[Anonymous No.6927635]

Why is 3S more popular than A3 when there's more variety of ways to play in A3 even if you just stick to v-ism. The way each character can be toggled with certain ism's gives it alot of depth. I love both and play them both equally, but I'm just confused why 3S is more popular even with the parrying system that filters most.

[Anonymous No.6927658]

>>6927635
>Why is 3S more popular than A3
3S has better aesthetics, more ways to play each character with their unique movesets, and most importantly of all you can't juggle someone to death to win. SFA3 is literally broken. 3S is much fairer.

[Anonymous No.6927680]

>>6927635
At high level play the combo system in A3 is basically broken. Infinites and 50%+ damage combos might seem rad on paper or single player but it makes for a shitty competitive game which is what fighters are.

[Anonymous No.6927701]

>>6927610
I love 3s

[Anonymous No.6927703]

>>6927701
If you're the same guy you're really making that hard to believe.

[Anonymous No.6927714]

>>6927703
yeah real hard to believe huh?
>>6927486
>>6927391

[Anonymous No.6927719]

>>6927701
Okay what do you love about it and why does talking about how good Q is bug you? Tier debates is pretty basic fighting game discussion so I'm not getting what the issue is.

[Anonymous No.6927725]

>>6927719
>Tier debates is pretty basic fighting game discussion so I'm not getting what the issue is.
Right. And if Q is trash it should be trivial to prove that, or trivial to disprove it being "god tier". Dude sounds autistic and prone to tantrums when someone disagrees with him.

[Anonymous No.6927731]

>>6927725
>>6927719
Q isn't high tier :)

[Anonymous No.6927732]

>waah we're being invaded by casual reddit boogeyman abloobloo take your meds
I can only speak for myself but I had my serious "hardcore" phase where I went to arcade in chinese immigrant block of town now I just play obscure games casually with irl friends.

Go play melty blood you cretins it has easy to pick up controls for players of all skill levels.

[Anonymous No.6927739]

>>6927725
Sorry, nobody wants to argue about tierlists for a 20 year old game with you and your threads are thinly veiled

[Anonymous No.6927743]

>>6927658
Everything you said is true except for the aesthetics, I always have a soft spot for the A3 designs and not just the reused assets from A2. 3S is good in terms of aesthetic too, but characters like Elena look uncanny. But I do feel that it's much harder to cheese someone in 3S
>>6927680
>Infinites and 50%+ damage combos might seem rad on paper or single player
Definitely, I couldn't imagine the the bullshit people can pull of on A3 comp, especially if they allow Akuma. It doesn't really feel that bad when playing on fightcade 2 with strangers, but I wouldn't fuck with A3 ranked.

[Anonymous No.6927752]

>>6927739
It seems like you don't want to argue about anything period except which girl has the sexiest feet.

[Anonymous No.6927804]

>>6927731
Okay. But understand why no one is taking you seriously. You can't expect to larp about being an expert on a game and then not ever say anything of substance. How do we know you're not just another of the single player posters who cry about why no one respects them?

[Anonymous No.6927812]

>>6927732
It's the opposite. Most of the trolling here is over the evil fgc and what niggers they are for taking a game seriously enough ti get good at it.

[Anonymous No.6927817]

I think I'm the only person who prefers KOF 99 to the rest of them.

[Anonymous No.6927828]

>>6927817
>to the rest of them
All KOF, all SNK, or all retro fighting games?

[Anonymous No.6927838]

>>6927828
KOF. The PSX version was in a lot of Wal-mart $10 bins in the Southern US. PS was my only console. It's really grew on me.

[Anonymous No.6928249]

>>6926630
>fightan'
why do you talk like such a faggot?

[Anonymous No.6928276]

>>6927817
That's probably because it was your first. Up to '98 everyone got progressively more powerful or better in some way. '99 depowers most of the old cast and introduced new ones but they're also not great compared to their iterations in later games.

On top of all that you have strikers that vary from being mostly pointless to grossly overpowered like dark syo fir example. It's not awful by any means and I've had loads of fun with it but as KoFs go it's not surprising why most stick it near the bottom.

[Anonymous No.6928279]

>>6927838
The PS versions of them all were trash.

[Anonymous No.6928321]

>>6928249
means he's an oldfag, "fightan" is what 07-09 used to call fighting games

[Anonymous No.6928337]

>>6928321
>´07 is old

Ouch. Fuck you kids.

[Anonymous No.6928845]

>>6928321
Nope, I was around then and it was just as gay then as it is now. Very cool "oldfag" talk to talk like a fucking child.

[Anonymous No.6928883]

>>6928845
Early 4chan was more cringe than people remember.

[Anonymous No.6929316]

>>6927658
>posts a .webm of someone practicing on a dummy
Now show a real match where a Karin pulled that off.

[Anonymous No.6929326]

>>6927743
>It doesn't really feel that bad when playing on fightcade 2 with strangers, but I wouldn't fuck with A3 ranked.

And that's why to me it's not a game worth wasting time on.

[Anonymous No.6929338]

>>6929316
That could have just as easily been a real match where the Karin player happened to land the first hit. After that it doesn't matter if the other player is a bot, a guy wildly mashing buttons trying to get out of it or someone who just decides to go make a sandwich while they wait for the combo to end. The result's the same either way.

[Anonymous No.6929367]

>>6928883
4chan was never good

[Anonymous No.6929414]

>>6929338
>That could have just as easily been a real match where the Karin player happened to land the first hit.
>easily
Then why is it that .webm always gets posted rather than a Karin pulling that off mid-match? I'll let you in on a secret, anon: in fighting games the opponent fights back. You see that unsafe jump-in that starts the combo? Sakura eats those for breakfast. Forget that she has a DP, the absolute answer for any shitkicker that thinks they can get a free hit on you in the air, she could just throw out a jab and it would reset the neutral.

Let's talk about V-ism. It extends combos almost indefinitely, you get a full bar of it at the start of a match, and it's an extremely oppressive tool that makes A-ism users nervous. You know what it can't do though? Continue if you get hit. One stray smack will fuck your setup completely, putting you back at square one with marginally less meter. It isn't free. The tradeoff is that you're required to make good decisions and have the skill to capitalize on them. Did you know the second half of Cody's best infinite requires you to crouch cancel every single subsequent jump kick he does? That's hard as fuck even in practice. Version dropped it during the 2018 SoCal Top 8 because the setup is unforgiving.

[Anonymous No.6929602]

>>6929414
>Then why is it that .webm always gets posted rather than a Karin pulling that off mid-match?

Because there's no point. It's just thereto demonstrate how broken the combo system is. Karin isn't the only one who can do an infinite and Sakura is just there as a stand in. Sure a normal match is probably a little messier, but any game where a single jump kick can end a match because it leads to a 100% combo sucks and that's all that really matters.

When the original question was why 3rd strike is more popular than A3 to anyone who's played fighting games much that webm illustrates it perfectly.

[Anonymous No.6929634]

>>6929414
>Did you know the second half of Cody's best infinite requires you to crouch cancel every single subsequent jump kick he does? That's hard as fuck even in practice.

This illustrates it also. Most people really into fighters strive to compete with the best. Improving your game so you can do better and hold your own against more and more skilled players is the core gameplay loop. So unless you only ever want to play it casually, there's going to be a point where you need to get some very high or 100% damage combos under your belt because sure as shit the people you're striving to beat have. If you like say, Cody then then you're in for a real slog. Which begs the question, why bother trying to master a broken game in the first place?

It's not like anyone's telling you you shouldn't have fun playing A3, but the answer to the question is obvious.

[Anonymous No.6931115]

>>6929602
>>6929634
And 3S's skill ceiling is ridiculously high, but for completely different reasons that also have to do with its major, glaring flaws. When you say "why bother with A3 when it's so busted", you completely gloss over why people who played Street Fighter religiously glossed over 3rd Strike on release. The reason it got so popular is because when the Internet exploded in popularity casuals caught on to the "hidden gem of SF" thought that it looked pretty and sounded nice. That's it. That's why it's played more. You think high damage, long combo strings scare people away? MvC2 is still one of the most popular fighting games.

[Anonymous No.6931207]

>>6931115
Whenever I read something like this I can just sense the immense envy and resentment oozing beneath the surface against one of the most acclaimed games of all time.
You know why popular things are typically popular? Because they appeal to the lowest common denominator. The lowest common denominator doesn't typically meet a high standard of quality. Does anyone wonder why more people don't play 3rd Strike? No, it's obvious why. Yet suddenly, with your lot, it's a conspiracy when despite its low playercount, it remains a well-respected title throughout the industry. The real mystery is why it continues to make posters like you seethe and continually downplay its strong points as if its reputation rests on absolutely nothing more than hype. It's a very strange grudge that certainly deserves a thorough elucidation.

[Game Theory No.6931218]

>>6926483
Hello Gohan, hows Candlej

[Anonymous No.6931237]

>>6926483
melee is not a fighting game and the community is pedos and stinkies who can't bathe

[Anonymous No.6931313]

>>6931115
Don't get me wrong I'm certainly not saying 3S is perfect, just that it's better that A3.

[Anonymous No.6931695]

>>6931207
Being the biggest title on Fightcade isn't a "low player count". That's pulling bigger numbers than say FEXL or KI. And you haven't even tried refuting my point about A3 infinites. What the fuck are you even trying to say? Back your argument about why you think 3S is better with points about how it functions.

[Anonymous No.6933309]

Don't say I didn't warn you about QAutist.

[Anonymous No.6933319]

>>6927034
>>6927030
>>6927024
one day I'll learn charge partitioning, until then I'll just mash Dudley and Akuma.

[Anonymous No.6933349]

>>6928249
>>6928321
The absolute state of you retards

[Anonymous No.6935532]

Was Tekken 4 really that bad?

[Anonymous No.6935671]

>>6926483
>fighting games
>ssmb

choose one anon

[Anonymous No.6935725]

>>6935671

[Anonymous No.6935731]

>>6935671
Time to get over it bro.
It is a fighting game, just not a Street Fighter-like.

[Anonymous No.6935812]

>>6935731
SF: traditional 2D fighting game
GG: anime 2D fighting game
SSB: platform 2D fighting game

[Anonymous No.6935823]

>>6935812
that sounds accurate, although I still think "anime fighting game" sounds stupid.
Smash definitely is a mix of fighting and platforming though. After all, it's an extension/expansion of the control mechanics from Kirby Super Star.

[Anonymous No.6935869]

>>6935823
>although I still think "anime fighting game" sounds stupid
"Air-dasher" is even dumber so I'll stick with "anime" even if its founder is Darkstalkers; at least that artstyle wasn't anything like the SF realism of SFII and Fatal Fury and earlier.

[Anonymous No.6935915]

>>6935725
cope

[Anonymous No.6936134]

>>6935915
yeah we already now you're engaging in it instead of engaging with it

[Anonymous No.6936730]

>>6935915
>gave up after one post

[Anonymous No.6936842]

>>6936730
Not him but there's really nothing that needs to be said about that dumpster fire of an image. When you need to make a whole infographic begging why your tangential game should be part of another genre you lost before you even started. The meme pics sprinkled throughout seal the deal.

[Anonymous No.6936862]

>>6936842
>thoroughly btfo point by point
>"ummm actually sweaty, you're not allowed to refute me"

[Anonymous No.6936873]

>>6936862
Lol
Sweety is trying a little too hard.

[Anonymous No.6936880]

>>6936842
>mental gymnastics

[Anonymous No.6936890]

>>6936880
Lol

[Anonymous No.6937550]

>>6935869
>"Air-dasher" is even dumber
Not at all. At least "air-dasher" gives you an idea on what to expect from a game, "anime fighter" doesn't at all beyond the art style. It becomes even more confusing when you try to use it as a genre name, when games look alike but don't play similarly at all, or when a game plays like one but doesn't look like one.

[Anonymous No.6937580]

>>6937550
>"anime fighter" doesn't at all
the irrealism and extraordinary nature of the action: bombastic, zany, high-tuned.

[Anonymous No.6937613]

>>6926594
>The vast majority of gamers don't consider fighting games "fun"
For like two decades, SF2 was Capcom's most popular video game period. Most people don't even think the game that finally beat it, RE5, to be a good game.

[Anonymous No.6937648]

Smash is a party game first, and even if you remove as many party mechanics in the options menu and ruleset it's still a party game more than a fighting game.

Most people that argue that Smash is a fighting game (and this especially applies to the SSBM crowd) claim that it's good and unique because there's 10-15 answers to any situation you are presented with and this somehow makes the game good. All answers carry risks so none of them is a "good" answer, none of them are "bad" answers", there just a gradient of which answer is better than others in a general sense and you're trying to apply those based on matchup and reading the player (yomi).

For most fighting games, this isn't considered a good thing. While it's okay for entirely yomi-based situations to occur, it's generally not considered okay for most of the fight to be yomi, because it's not really yomi at that point anymore, no moreso than an entire tournament for rock/paper/scissors is yomi. Fighting games will actually have lots of situations where there's zero yomi, where neutral exists and other factors kick in. Melee has neutral, but it's pretty weak, Melee wants you to constantly create high stakes situations while trying to exploit maximum upsides to kill your opponent quickly. This is because of its party game roots where maximum upside is often the best strategy.

[Anonymous No.6937682]

>>6937580
You could say that about almost every fighting game that isn't a straight faced boxing simulator or real wrestling game.
People don't double jump, throw ki blasts, turn into dragons or breath fire in real life. And "anime game" can be contentious, shit like Skullgirls fit it but people protest since it's an American game, or Marvel 2's American properties.

[Anonymous No.6937684]

Smash being a fighting game or not is irrelevant, most people just hate having to deal with their fans, who don't really give a shit about other games and wouldn't have played this if it wasn't by Nintendo.

[Anonymous No.6937841]

>>6937682
>You could say that about almost every fighting game that isn't a straight faced boxing simulator or real wrestling game
Nope.
Clear differences between Marvel games and Guilty Gear vs King of Fighters and Street Fighter.

[Anonymous No.6937842]

>>6937684
>wouldn't have played this if it wasn't by Nintendo
there you go spouting your ignorance about the game again

[Anonymous No.6937859]

>>6937841
My favorite air dashers

[Anonymous No.6937878]

>>6937648
>Smash is a party game first, and even if you remove as many party mechanics in the options menu and ruleset it's still a party game more than a fighting game.

[Anonymous No.6937938]

My favorite anime character, Captain America

[Anonymous No.6938005]

>>6937938
*anime fighter / anime fighting game

[Anonymous No.6938012]

>>6938005
My favorite anime fighting game characters, Venom and Peacock from Skullgirls

[Anonymous No.6938061]

>>6938005
anine fighter isn't a real or needed term. It's as pointless and lame as scotformer.

[Anonymous No.6938685]

>>6937878
SEETHING

[Anonymous No.6938705]

>>6926594
Retard opinion. If most people don't think fighting games are fun, tell me why in every arcade in my country we had at least a KoF? No matter how small it was.

[Anonymous No.6938847]

>>6926483
>Now that 6th Gen is allowed, however, there should be far more to discuss.
What worthwhile fighting game got released after the old /vr/ cutoff date and the mod's massive shit on the board? MvC2 and CvS2 both had Dreamcast ports so they were allowed, and arcade games flat-out died around the old cutoff. I almost never hear people bring up anything from the dark age.

[Anonymous No.6938852]

>>6926483
>Now that 6th Gen is allowed, however, there should be far more to discuss.
What worthwhile fighting game got released after the old /vr/ cutoff date and before the mods' massive shit on the board? MvC2 and CvS2 both had Dreamcast ports so they were allowed, and arcade games flat-out died around the old cutoff. I almost never hear people bring up anything from the dark age.

[Anonymous No.6938854]

>>6938847
None.
We have to wait until 7th gen gets added to discuss Tatsunoko vs Capcom.

[Anonymous No.6938859]

>>6938854
>We have to wait until 7th gen gets added
Don't even fucking joke about that

[Anonymous No.6939110]

>>6938852
>What worthwhile fighting game got released after the old /vr/ cutoff date and before the mods' massive shit on the board?
DOA3, VF4, SSBM

[Anonymous No.6939254]

What's the best way to play SF 1 and 2?
I assume it's Turbografx-16 for SF1 and arcade for 2, right?

Since we're talking arcade, what about Metal Slug? Are the PC ports any good, or is arcade still the best?

[Anonymous No.6939595]

>>6939254
>SF1
There's no good way to play SF1, don't bother it's actual trash
>SF2
Arcade is best, yeah, and most people play it via Fightcade. People mostly play Super Turbo, some people stick to Champion Edition.

[Anonymous No.6939636]

>>6939595
Thanks.
>SF1
Just checked it on youtube. Wow, didn't think it would be this shit.

[Anonymous No.6939647]

>>6939636
Yeah, SF1 is forgotten for a reason. Even regarding the series lore it's irrelevant, the only important thing is that Ryu is the protagonist, Sagat is the final boss and Ryu beats him giving him a scar. They even made a midequel series between 1 and 2, Street Fighter Alpha, which explains the backstory to 2 so you can ignore 1 entirely outside that plot detail I mentioned.

[Anonymous No.6939664]

>>6926483
3s will never lose it's niche appeal cause of moment 37. Most of 3s' scene aren't boomers (you'll see them more around VF). The issue with making fgs simpler to play is that it appeals to people who didn't have any interest in trying to actually play them in the first place. Shit like making motions simpler, adding a dedicated autocombo for every button, making dp a fucking button press make fgs less interesting and enjoyable. And they only serve to appeal to folks who have no interest in the genre to begin with.

[Anonymous No.6939673]

2 Turbo and Caliber are fun. May lay is just in a league of it's own. The competitive scene was an accident: just the result of solid programming and exploitable mechanics that allow it to be played ridiculously fast. There is no other game like it; or even close.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXgpGBbh5r8

[Anonymous No.6939681]

>>6927630
not him but i'll tell you why Q is bad
>Rush punches make easy parries
>Weird and bad buttons
Even with the added defense from 3 taunts he struggles to do much against most of 3s' cast. Though there are worse, notably remy, twelve, and sean.

[Anonymous No.6939750]

>>6939664
I'd say there's definitely merit to making motions somewhat simpler; that is to say specifically, easier to execute. I think the looseness of SFV's execution is why it's become so popular despite a lot of the top players not actually caring for the game that much.

[Anonymous No.6939754]

I don't play fighting games I just coom to the girls

[Anonymous No.6939760]

>>6939664
>Most of 3s' scene aren't boomers
It is in Japan, the only place that matters.
>you'll see them more around VF
That makes no sense.

[Anonymous No.6939765]

>>6939673
>solid programming
not having this is why SSBM is so excellent (unintentional mechanics) as well as so flawed (Roy hitboxes).
>There is no other game like it; or even close.
Project M, of course.

[Anonymous No.6939769]

>>6939681
You sound like someone with an extremely elementary understanding of 3rd Strike. Not to be taken seriously in the least bit.

[Anonymous No.6939774]

>>6939754
As do most 4channers.

[Anonymous No.6939834]

>>6939765
Project M is dead. P+ is the new gold standard for competitive and casual Smash, rivaled only by Smash 64 Remix.

[Anonymous No.6939860]

>>6939765
> not having this is why SSBM is so excellent (unintentional mechanics) as well as so flawed (Roy hitboxes).
I would hesitate to call wavedashing and L canceling glitches, they are just quirks of airdodging into the ground and activating slide physics; and the programmers wanting you to put your shield up faster after landing, and cancelling the shield into standing animation before that happens. It's probably not intended, but i wouldn't call that broken by any means. Phantom hits are a little retarded, Ness and the ICs have some serious jank, and Roy was clearly rushed and half baked.
> Project M, of course.
True! Nintendo fucked up Brawl so bad that the community stepped in and made it Melee lol

[Anonymous No.6939893]

>>6939834
>Project M is dead.
So what. 3.6 will remain forever a solid game, especially if you use repackages like Legacy TE instead of the default build.
>P+
>the new gold standard
They made a lot of stupid rebalances that did not need to be made---particularly the nerfs. What a retarded waste of resources to fix shit that really didn't need fixing, unlike, for example, making Pit's head invincible during Up B.
If anything, P+ only sealed the decline of its popularity, although that was already in motion by the end of the 2018 season.

[Anonymous No.6939896]

>>6939860
>I would hesitate to call wavedashing and L canceling glitches
Those aren't the only mechanics.

[Anonymous No.6939929]

>>6939893
>If anything, P+ only sealed the decline of its popularity
Funny you say that when P+ tournaments and pools have more than PM ever did, especially with all the people fed up over Nintendo's shit netcode.

[Anonymous No.6939939]

>>6939896
i'm aware. Pivot attacking, jumping out of shine, ledgestalling, ledgehogging, ledgecancelling, jump-cancelled graps, crouch-cancelled attacks, chaingrabbing, dashdancing, wobbling, 1.0 Link ok boomerang hookshot shenanigans, and whatever the fuck they did to Ness' yoyo hitbox, and more i'm sure

[Anonymous No.6939953]

>>6939939
V cancelling.

[Anonymous No.6940065]

>>6939769
What the fuck are you talking about? Q is bad. You can do well with him like you can do well with anyone in the game utilizing the system mechanics, similar to USF4's worst. Q doesn't benefit from having slow movement, slow and predictable buttons, and very easy to parry dash punches. He can get a decent amount off his command grab but good luck getting it off. He doesn't have much to work with which is why the best Q players need to utilize shit like crouch>stand to fuck up opponent's throws.

I am shit at 3s, I'm not going to pretend I'm not. But that does not change the fact that the general consensus among 3s' best is that Q is one of 3s' worst characters.

[Anonymous No.6940145]

>>6940065
>What the fuck are you talking about?
I can explain.
>Q is bad.
Not really, no. You just have to know how to use him, which you almost certainly do not.
>You can do well with him like you can do well with anyone in the game utilizing the system mechanics
It's not just about the universal mechanics.
>Q doesn't benefit from having slow movement
The slow movement is to balance his strengths. He's a defensive character; he's not supposed to be speedy and easy to maneuver.
>slow and predictable buttons
Again, that's to balance his strengths; and not all of his attacks are predictable or easy to react to, such as his stomp.
>very easy to parry dash punches
It's not "very easy". He has three different directions to aim it at which come out at the last minute, besides the fact it's mostly for punishing rather than rushing the opponent down.
I get the sense you don't understand this character much at all, or any playstyle that isn't rushdown for that matter.
>He doesn't have much to work with
That's not really true. He doesn't have a plethora of options, but nor does he need them. They're not integral to his character.
>I am shit at 3s
I figured as much. I just really wonder why you talk as if you have authority when you're just a low-level player who hasn't even seen high-level play of non-mainstream characters. I doubt you even have heard of TM.

[Anonymous No.6940245]

>>6940145
Not him but as a low-level Q player what's the right way to use him? I find myself regularly getting crushed by Necros and Oros who keep jumping in on me with moves I can't seem to punish (I keep getting my punish attempts stuffed by Necro's corkscrew jump thing and my 4MP can't hit Oro after he does that stomp attack) and I feel like there's something I should be able to do about it. Any good examples of high level Q play I should be looking for?

[Anonymous No.6940294]

>>6940245
>Not him but as a low-level Q player what's the right way to use him?
Well you can play him orthodox like Kuroda which is more straightforwardly defensive. But you can also find success playing a more aggressive Q like TM does, although that would be more difficult if not suboptimal.
>I find myself regularly getting crushed by Necros and Oros who keep jumping in on me with moves I can't seem to punish
Necro would be more difficult to deal with given the range but Oro can be dealt with with the high slaps special or the charging punch if you time it right.
>I keep getting my punish attempts stuffed by Necro's corkscrew jump thing and my 4MP can't hit Oro after he does that stomp attack) and I feel like there's something I should be able to do about it. Any good examples of high level Q play I should be looking for?
I'm going to go gather some reference material that will help augment the text explanation. Stay tuned (but don't wait up).

[Anonymous No.6940387]

>>6939254
For Metal Slug, just play 1-5 on an arcade emulator. Play X instead of 2. And play 6 and 7 on PSP emulator.

[Anonymous No.6940568]

>>6940245
So you have to think of him as a punish heavy character and make the most of the openings you get.
In the second match of this video against Necro, you'll see Kuroda rely a lot on Q's slapping move once he gets his chance. You may also notice that he doesn't have much of an answer for aerial approaches other than parrying and counterattacking asap.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RELIyDti0hg
So his strategy is to minimize the distance between Q and Necro so that Necro's advantage disappears. Pushing Necro toward the corner is essential so as to restrict the variety of options he has in the air, which makes him easier to predict and react to, and easier to pressure on the ground.
Necro really does have an aerial advantage that Q has difficulty with, as well as better anti-air options himself than Q does. So the strategy is to make the air a non-factor, which you do by closing the distance and not giving Necro room to work with.
It's either that, or you better get good at parrying.

[Anonymous No.6940616]

>>6940145
I was referring to TM when I was referring to crouching to fuck up being grabbed. I've seen plenty of high level Q play. Yes, I understand he is a defensive character and plays off of punishes and reads. And this might be a shocker but those kinds of characters generally aren't good in their respective games. Q probably has the most to work with out of the low tiers, i'll give you that. Plenty of pro players can make bad/unpopular characters work this is not uncommon. But let me stop trying to shittalk, is your argument that Q is just not bad or that Q is secretly good (if you can use him effectively)? Because if so then I'm dumb and you are correct. If you are trying to say Q is around mid or higher then I will still disagree

[Anonymous No.6940654]

>>6940387
Thank you

[Anonymous No.6940669]

>>6940616
>is your argument that Q is just not bad or that Q is secretly good (if you can use him effectively)?
What I'm saying is people need to pay real close attention to how the developers actually intended the game and its characters to play.

Too many people approach 3rd Strike with the mindset that speed and power are the most important factors and if a character lacks either then they're straight-up trash. That's a terribly mistaken perception that ignores the obvious large amount of thought that went into the complex balancing of each character: that every "weak" character has strengths that its defects are compensating for, and even "strong" characters have chinks in their armor so to speak.

It's really telling when someone has nothing good to say about a character like Q, such as having the second highest health in the game, and talks as if he's supposed to play like Yun. Cases like those are putting zero effort into trying to actually understand the game and you just can't take anyone's opinion like that seriously.

Let rational analysis, informed speculation, and high-level recording evidence be the metrics of quality rather than folk opinion formulated way before the meta was anywhere near mature, from communities that are still years behind the current state of the game. There's way too much misinfo and confusion in circulation right now that makes matters like Q's quality difficult to discuss.

[Anonymous No.6940672]

>>6940568
>you can parry the second hit of Necro's multihits after blocking the first
God I'm fucking stupid and know way too little about this game, I've been sitting there just blocking no wonder I can't punish him. Massively appreciate your advice anon, Q's probably the reason I haven't given up on 3rd Strike despite getting bodied so often, I just love him and his kit

[Anonymous No.6940693]

>>6940672
>God I'm fucking stupid and know way too little about this game
3rd strike is really arcane. Did you know you take more damage while crouching? Did you know Sean can actually let his basketball fly through his hands instead of catching it? If you didn't look up a web guide, you probably wouldn't even know that taunts do anything, let alone what stats they specifically affect.
It's not your fault for the ignorance; not enough is explained to players from official material.
>Q's probably the reason I haven't given up on 3rd Strike despite getting bodied so often, I just love him and his kit
Yeah he's fun and cool.
I'd say to check out Kuroda and TM every now and then so you can get a better sense of what Q can do against other characters; moreso TM as I think Kuroda is a little too impassive and doesn't utilize the taunt enough.

[Anonymous No.6940718]

Bad new games can ruin decent characters.

[Anonymous No.6940719]

>>6940718
Examples?

[Anonymous No.6940867]

>>6940693
>Did you know you take more damage while crouching?
What the fuck how would anybody with less than hundreds of hours in the game even notice that, that's so far out there

[Anonymous No.6940875]

Fightcade 2 Download:
https://www.fightcade.com/

Complete Fightcade 2 Rom Set (files needed are "vsav.zip" and "vsavj.zip"):
https://mega.nz/folder/RVN1TKpZ#G8UbcCOGIuxkGGFf4ma1Gg

Resource For Learning Vampire Savior:
https://wiki.gbl.gg/w/Vampire_Savior

[Anonymous No.6940884]

>>6940875
you don't even need the whole romset anymore, there .json files that nab the roms you need automatically. You can find them on here
https://docs.google.com/document/d/18mBBLVMCzzlq7eejTvGaoCFb9H2VM_PuAsbM8pjBmoY/edit#

[Anonymous No.6941032]

>>6940065

[Anonymous No.6941095]

>>6940867
>What the fuck how would anybody with less than hundreds of hours in the game even notice that
Getting in training mode and having the damage gauge turned on. You'll be surprised at some of the calculations this game goes through, such as how sometimes a raw super will do more damage than a combo into that super.

[Anonymous No.6941115]

>>6941095
That's general scaling though, most fighting games have some sort of damage scaling system that makes raw hits do more damage then a confirm into a raw hit

[Anonymous No.6941154]

>>6940875
>>6940884
based

[Anonymous No.6941258]

>>6927219
You must have terrible hygiene.

[Anonymous No.6941610]

>>6940875
interesting

[Anonymous No.6941687]

>>6941095
3rd Strike has a training mode? Is it on arcade or are you just talking about console ports?

[Anonymous No.6941918]

Did you order yours, /vr/?

[Anonymous No.6941971]

>>6941687
just talking about console ports

[Anonymous No.6942039]

>>6935725
Imagine how butthurt was the person who did that pic

Also, go take a shower the whole room smells because of you

[Anonymous No.6942194]

>>6941918
Is this just an emulation box inside a swana stick?

[Anonymous No.6942758]

>>6926483
with Fightcade 2, Third Strike's playerbase is bigger than it's been in years. You can find games at any hour. Join us, anon.

[Anonymous No.6942789]

yeah im thinking capcom won

[Anonymous No.6943947]

>>6942789
SNK certainly didn't.

[Anonymous No.6943998]

>>6942194
No, it's just a stick with the same sanwa parts used in the astro city cab