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/vr/ - Retro Games

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684450 No.684450 [Reply] [Original]

This game is responsible for the decline and mindless shit-storm of gaming industry.

Everything else has been trying to copy off it creating a massive tsunami of shoddy, uninspired digital diarrhea.

>> No.684458

Why do you say that, my child? I'm curious to hear your views.

>> No.685113

>>684450
Gothic/Faqqet is the decline of everything, blame him.

>> No.685121

>Everything else has been trying to copy off it
If by "everything" you mean first person shooters, then I guess you're right.

>> No.685160

>>684450
Doom didn't do anything bad to the FPS genre.

Half-Life and Halo did. Then CoD fed unto its corpse

>> No.685168

>>684450
>I Hate Doom because it popularised FPSs.

>> No.685180
File: 37 KB, 659x591, 1343135890222.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
685180

>i want attention

>> No.685196

>>685160

I can understand Halo because (even though I still like the first 3 games) it isn't anything groundbreaking or special.

But Half-Life? Granted 2 hasn't aged all that well but aspects of it and the original game did nothing but make FPS devs stop endlessly copying Doom and Quake.

>> No.685215

>>685196
Half Life was the start of linear level designs. Nearly every FPS before it had mazy levels mixed with occasional linear levels. But after Half-life, mazy levels just suddenly became rare. This was further helped by Halo's popularity.

>> No.685224

>>685215
Half Life was the start of linear level designs becoming more prevalent*

>> No.685235

>>685168

That's funny, because OP didn't say he hated it

>> No.685241

>>685196
Yeah, by adding shitty interactive noninteractivity for "immershun". At least pre-HL shooters had some gameplay.

>> No.685240

man fuck id for making memorable games

>> No.685238

>>685235
That's why you call it a strawman.

>> No.685282

>>685215
>>685241

Linearity isn't inherently bad. HL1 was a great mix of scripted events and maze-like elements. You're never really told directly where to go and what to do, and those linear events only added to the gameplay if anything.

I can see where you're coming from if you mean HL2.

>> No.685356

>Half-Life
>The beginning of FPS's death
That would be true if there were actually games LIKE Half-Life.
I blame Halo for popularizing gamepads, and Call of Duty 2 for the forced regenerating health.

>> No.685429

>>685356
>That would be true if there were actually games LIKE Half-Life.
What is Red Faction, SiN, Medal of Honor, CoD, NOLF, XIII...?

>> No.685431
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685431

This game is responsible for the decline and mindless shit-storm of gaming industry.

Everything else has been trying to copy off it creating a massive tsunami of shoddy, uninspired digital diarrhea.

>> No.685435
File: 146 KB, 600x902, Chrono_Cross__Harle_by_tompkinsxx.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
685435

>>684450

I feel the same way about Ocarina of Time

>> No.685452

>>685429
>What is Red Faction, SiN, Medal of Honor, CoD, NOLF, XIII...?
Good games?

>> No.685469
File: 486 KB, 1280x800, Glide64_Perfect_Dark_04.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
685469

>>684450
Goldeneye\Perfect Dark weren't based on Doom. They were based on Virtual Cop and Mario 64. And they took FPS games in a short lived, but totally glorious direction.

Before the cancer which was Halo and Half Life undid everything.

Reminder - Goldeneye outsold Halo. Significantly.

>> No.685530

>>685215
>Nearly every FPS before it had mazy levels mixed with occasional linear levels.
A lot of them were fairly linear mazy levels.
Even doom has fairly linear levels, with backtracking, but even half life did back tracking.

>> No.685538

>>685356
I don't think anything will top CS. CS popularized being shitty. Extraordinarily so. From the slow movement, to the piss poor guns and bugginess. It had console gamers flocking to it in droves to get a piece of that slow spray and pray lower skill ceiling gameplay.

>> No.685605

>>685469
the rare shooters are clearly inspired by looking glass classics, not id games.

>> No.685625

Doom perfected the single player formula, Quake perfected the multiplayer. The only possible improvements were minor control tweaks and better graphics.

>> No.685626

>>685469
>JoAnna confronts JC Denton.jpg

>> No.685721

>>685235
>Being this literal

>> No.685728

>>685356
Quite a lot of SP shooters from 00-06 are extremely derivative of Half-life.

>> No.685735

>>685530
>A lot of them were fairly linear mazy levels.
>Completely missing the point

When I say Linear, I mean, little to no sidepaths. Point A to Point B linearity was always a part of FPSs

>> No.685746

>>685538
CS is super fast paced, you have to aim really well to hit anything and it was one of the first games with realistic guns. Sounds like you are making stuff up. And of course it's buggy, it's a fucking mod!

>> No.685753

>>685538
CS in itself isn't bad. Though it did kinda popularise the whole "realistic" weapons concept

>> No.685758
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685758

>>685746
>super fast paced
Compared to what? It's still one of the slower FPS games out there.
You don't have to aim really well because the hitbox for the heads is fucking massive.

>> No.685771

>>685113
Care to explain?
And, I'm not Gothic.

>> No.685773

>>685746
>CS is super fast paced,
No, it's dirt slow paced. The only thing fast about it is the fire encounters.

> And of course it's buggy, it's a fucking mod!
A mod bought by valve, owned by valve, sold by valve and backed by valve.

>you have to aim really well to hit anything
No, the issue is that the reg is shit, aiming is still somewhat restricted. Most people just spray and pray anyway.

>> No.685774

>>684450
>>685113

Is OP still around? Care to explain who is this Gothic/Faqqet guy?

>> No.685779

>>685758
On the standard maps such as Dust, sure. But on custom maps where everyone is grouped together it can end up as just a big shootout.

>> No.685783

>>685774
Well, I made the OP pasta and FAQ for /vr/oom threads, as well as some minor mods for doom.
I don't know why someone would think I'm Gothic, though I have nothing against him.

>> No.685803

>>684450
+1

>> No.685824

>>685196
> the second game didn't age well, but the first durr de durr durr durr

This has to be the most retarded thing I've read this month. Thanks retard.

>> No.685848

Half-Life, though a good game, pretty much ruined gaming. Not DOOM.

>> No.685871

Hey OP, do you happen to be the same faggot who made this thread a long time ago?

http://archive.foolz.us/vr/thread/547798/#547798

PS: Stop holding grudges goddamn

>> No.685890

I don't even understand why people consider Halo bad - the first game actually was VERY solid and had tons of shit to explore. One level was an ENTIRE island. It was only presented to you in a linear manner, which is not bad, because otherwise the game wouldn't be action packed enough, you'd be wandering around the shores for hours.

If you mean the fanbase and the media attention, then yeah, Halo was one of the first games that had that going. But the game itself was solid. About the only thing it "contributed" to FPS games is the inability to hold more than 2 weapons at the same time. You didn't even have regenerating health in it, just a shield that dropped in 2 hits if you were playing on any difficulty but Easy.
The sequels became increasingly crappier though.

Plus, Halo CE was the closest we've got for a proper game adaptation of the second Alien movie. I only just realized that when I was holding a movie marathon of all the Alien movies in succession... Aliens had tons of parts that Halo CE copied. And not just the flood, but shit like dropship design or running around in the ventilation corridors with flashlights.

>> No.685904

>>685890
I don't think Halo is bad. Its nothing special, but It's decent. Just that it's massive popularity was highly unwarranted and was the result in more games trying to be like it.

>> No.686026

>>685890
The game itself isn't bad.
It's success and therefore tons of people following the same damn formula is the bad thing.
In every regard, it was a step back from Doom-like games. Every regard. And yet it hit commercial success far above any Doom-based game, which I will never understand to this day.

It's mainly the two-weapon restriction, linear level design, and recharging shields that became the bane of the genre.

I'm aware these things existed prior to Halo, but none of those things hit the commercial success that Halo did; it brought FPS to the console audience more-so than any other game, and therefore to big, shitty companies and the general, stupid people.

>> No.686097

>>686026
No, Halo is bad.
The first game had awful level repaste, awful weapon balance, snails pace, on the PC multiplayer had the worst netcode in history.
There was little of redeeming value.

>> No.686106

>>685871
>PS: Stop holding grudges goddamn
You're the only one who still remembers that thread.

>> No.686112

>>686097
And yet the first Halo is probably one of the best FPS games to grace consoles.
Granted, that says consoles are shit for FPS, which is obvious, but still. It's near the top of its shit-filled field.

>> No.686130

>>685890
>Plus, Halo CE was the closest we've got for a proper game adaptation of the second Alien movie.
What the fuck... ever played Alien vs Predator, or the Alien Trilogy FPS?

>> No.686161

>>685890
I had grown up on Build and id Tech engine shooters, so when I first played Halo CE, it was just a grotesquely slow disappointment with bland art direction to me. The hype sure didn't help, but my dislike of Halo is about the game itself, not its reception.

>> No.686213

>>686161
I grew up on Doom Clones as well, and Halo CE was still pretty fun to me. I didn't expect to like it, but I ended up having fun with it.

And I actually liked how it repeated levels... I haven't even realized it did, because it swapped around many elements that made the levels play totally different (such as the vehicles).

>>686097
The PC version had other problems beyond net code, if you max out the graphics it was chugging on 3 years later hardware too. I think it was my Radeon X1950Pro that finally managed to run the game lag free, despite the coming out when the 9700 Pro was high-end.

>>686026
>It's success and therefore tons of people following the same damn formula is the bad thing.

Tons of games followed the success of Doom as well. They called them Doom Clones for a reason. Even Duke Nukem 3D had the same "find the red key then the yellow then the blue" crap too.

The problem wasn't that they copied elements from Halo, but that they bastardized them too much. Halo was actually popular because of the co-op play, not those other gameplay elements... OK, the tons of cutscenes helped too.

>> No.686235

>>686213
But they didn't have the commercial success. The good formula didn't get shit, and the bad formula went on to making people millions and sating the public.

>> No.686253
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686253

sure is a nice day to troll /vr/ isnt it OP

>> No.686278

>>686213
>I grew up on Doom Clones as well, and Halo CE was still pretty fun to me.
That's alright. I wasn't implying that anyone with a gaming past similar to my own should share my opinion. It's just that Halo's gameplay didn't seem like a step up from the games I was used to, but rather the opposite. It felt off-puttingly slow (both the combat and just the overall maneuvering) and the bells & whistles of the story and the setting completely failed to hold my interest as well.

I must say that I have no idea what Halo is like *today*. I've only played CE. Maybe it actually did evolve as a franchise, but that first game just didn't do anything for me.

>> No.686295
File: 20 KB, 250x483, pong.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
686295

This game is responsible for the decline and mindless shit-storm of gaming industry.

Everything else has been trying to copy off it creating a massive tsunami of shoddy, uninspired digital diarrhea.

>> No.686326

It's just the first game which spawned a huge trend in the video game industry. You're basically just saying the game was too successful, OP.

>> No.686450

>>686326
>t's just the first game which spawned a huge trend in the video game industry

Hell no. Pong, Super Mario Brothers, Street Fighter 2, C&C, etc. It's just that FPSs are still popular.

>> No.686463

>>685890
>closest we've got for a proper game adaptation of the second Alien movie
Play AvP 99... It's amazing (no saves, instant death facehuggers), and the sequel's almost as good (despite not being nearly as tense).

>> No.686507

>>686213
>Tons of games followed the success of Doom as well. They called them Doom Clones for a reason. Even Duke Nukem 3D had the same "find the red key then the yellow then the blue" crap too.
But the difference is, the elements these games copied were actually good. Stuff like 2 weapon limit and health regen on the other hand, are from a game design standpoint just a pure regression.

>> No.686936

FPS a shit.

Thankfully, it only plagues the dull USA market.

>> No.687087 [DELETED] 

>blaming good games for "the decline of the gaming industry."

No. The only people to blame for that are shitty devs.

Every commercially successful game has spawned a slurry of derivative games, nearly all of which were terrible shovelware. A rare few were almost as good as the originals without adding anything new and one or two in a generation add something really worthwhile and unique and become the next "big game" and the process repeats over again.

This has always been the case, and will always be the case. This isn't only true of videogames either; look at movies, tv, music, literature, photography, painting, fashion, or any other creative medium.

>> No.687098
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687098

>blaming good games for "the decline of the gaming industry."

No. The only people to blame for that are shitty devs.

Every commercially successful game has spawned a slurry of derivative games, nearly all of which were terrible shovelware. A rare few were almost as good as the originals without adding anything new and one or two in a generation add something really worthwhile and unique and become the next "big game" and the process repeats over again.

This has always been the case, and will always be the case. This isn't only true of videogames either; look at movies, tv, music, literature, photography, painting, fashion, or any other creative medium.

Besides that, do you really think that if these games that "ruined the industry" hadn't been made, the people making derivative shit would be making anything worthwhile? They aren't putting out crap because of the game they're trying to copy, they're putting out crap because they're talentless hacks. The games they're copying only impacts the flavor of shit they're making.

>> No.689171

>>686213
>They called them Doom Clones for a reason.
Yeah, because video games are a new industry. People didn't know to call them first person shooters. Which is what 'doom clones' were. Most of them, weren't actually clones of doom.

>> No.689193

>>686507
>Stuff like 2 weapon limit
> are from a game design standpoint just a pure regression.
Not really. But Halo handled it awful.
Games like Action Half Life handled it well. TS had more than two weapons but had a weight limit, that theoretically limited you to close to 2-3 weapons. It also slowed you down and changed your mobility.
It did decent for weapon limits, but it also over exaggerated things for balance.

There's nothing wrong with two weapon limit when used correctly.

>> No.689218

>Make a unfalsifiable claim.
>get 50+ responses.

Why is anyone trying to argue with OP? He said a bunch of shit that didn't resemble a concrete point nor anything refutable. His fucking conclusion is a circular reasoning: "Games are shit. They are shit because I perceive them to be."

You people really make me wonder sometimes...

>> No.689327

>>689218
>Make a unfalsifiable claim.
>Everything else has been trying to copy off it creating a massive tsunami of shoddy, uninspired digital diarrhea.
That sounds fairly falsifiable to me. Look at other games, do they appear to try to copy it?
For the most part, no.

Also his reasoning wasn't games are shit they shit because I perceive them to be.
His reasoning was
>Games are shit because lack of in depth game play and poor quality.
Which is correct.
>Games became like this because Doom was popular.
Not really.
>Doom was like this.
Doom doesn't fit into that argument because.
>Doom had depth in gameplay, so it wasn't mindless. Though it did have an easy mode which made it that much easier to be mindless.
>It supported modding to add complexity.
>Prior stated, most games didn't copy it, rather than simply being first person shooters.
Hell Doom even supported WASD back then. You could if in fact use it with vanilla doom if you knew to do so. A lot of them didn't have bindings for that.
Doom had a lot of evolutionary shit going on for it with multiplayer FPS on modem and lan, custom maps, new graphical tech. It improved the genre of FPS.

If you were going to complain about any early game, it'd be wolf3D or one of the dozens of shitty 3D rudimentary maze shooting games or shit for starting it, where it was a FPS that had little depth or complexity beyond mazes. But that's how genres evolve typically. Few genres start with something well constructed and complex off the bat.

If other games attempted to be as evolutionary as doom. We would all be better off.

>> No.689361

>>687098
>blaming devs and not stupid people that buy their shit
No. The only people to blame for that are the public.

>> No.689515

>>689327
>That sounds fairly falsifiable to me. Look at other games, do they appear to try to copy it?
>For the most part, no.

You completely missed by contention.

He is claiming the "copying" has created a "massive tsunami of shoddy, uninspired digital diarrhea".

While people can certainly "copy" something, claiming any attempt following IS a "copy" is fallacious, as that may not be true; furthermore, it is a play on words; he did not concretely define what he mean by it--how much "copying"? Could he mean "borrowing" instead? Does he mean "carbon copying?" Such broad words lead to different refutations that may or may not be relevant to the OP's intended criticisms, which is why it is ill-defined and unfalsifiable.

Fallacy of definition, if you will.

>Also his reasoning wasn't games are shit they shit because I perceive them to be.

No, his conclusion is circular; he concludes games are shit because he sees them as such, without having defined any of his points. His conclusions is his is premise; his premise is his conclusion:

"My perception is that X games are shit because they [unfavorable trait]; therefore, all games are shit. Argue that!"

Furthermore, it is his opinion, so refuting it becomes problematic.

To be emphatic: My contention is that he did not define his points and is using his own opinion to attempt to argue an objective point of view.

>> No.689634

>>685758
>I only played 1.6

>> No.689643

>>685773
>slow paced

Stop getting shot, injuries slow down your movement, also, heavier guns make you move slower.


>>685773
>Most people just spray and pray anyway.

Except that will get you killed, because your aim will be all over the place, good players have always made single shots or very short bursts (you know, like in real life), and different guns have different uses.

You bump into a guy in a hallway, your first instinct is to hose him down with lead, this will not work, you'll score about two hits (at most) and then the barrel will climb all over the screen, you tap at him, center mass, rapidly.

This should be done even at distance.

>> No.689710

>>689643
>Stop getting shot, injuries slow down your movement, also, heavier guns make you move slower.
>getting shot every tic
No, that's called movement, it's fucking slow.


>Except that will get you killed,
Not specifically. Most 'high level' players spray and pray and kill with it. Most low level players don't.

> you'll score about two hits (at most)
If you're using an AK, that's one more hit than you need technically.
>and then the barrel will climb all over the screen, you tap at him, center mass, rapidly.
No. No and no. You burst 1-3 shots on the chin. Done. Don't go center mass unless you're spraying and need to lower the recoil. Otherwise any tapping should always be at head level not center mass. There's no gun that does better by hitting the chest (and risking higher arm shot percentage even) than the hitting the head.

Also, I know how to play, I've probably clocked more hours than most people in it even though it's a shitty game.
At least over 15K in the two main ones.

>> No.689764

>>689710
>Also, I know how to play, I've probably clocked more hours than most people in it even though it's a shitty game.
>At least over 15K in the two main ones.

This frankly says more about you than the game itself.

>> No.689786

>>689764
Yeah, that I like multiplayer FPS games, and that all the good ones died out.

>> No.689834

>>684450
i.....are wait....a-are you trying to say doom is-na no way this trolling...is just bad. you not even trying. -1000000/0 you should feel bad.

>> No.690079

>>689361
Not just the public, but the publishers that take advantage of the publics stupidity.

>> No.690147

Doom and Half-Life are completely different schools of FPS and there's nothing wrong with both. HL is a fantastic game and it inspired many fantastic shooters.

Doom is fucking great and all but come on.

>> No.690269

>>690147
I'm gonna be honest. I find half-life boring. I kinda wish games like System Shock 2 and Deus Ex got the fame instead.

>> No.690482

>responding

Quit letting people think this board is gullible.

>> No.690990

>>690269
Deus Ex was pretty shit.
The idea is fine and all but the execution was flawed as fuck. It just was not a good game.