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/vr/ - Retro Games

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File: 98 KB, 1500x1000, 162798493056.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6806025 No.6806025 [Reply] [Original]

>Can't even do transparency well
>even the SNES can do it
lmao, what a piece of shit

>> No.6806041

>>6806025
Cope soulless polygon plebs, Saturn has the pure early Nvidia Quad SOUL

>> No.6806049

>>6806025
It actually can do transparency and does it pretty much the exact same way the SNES does.

The problem is that for sprites it's slow, and you get issues with how VDP1 and VDP2 interact. For 2D games these issues rarely matter, it's when you get into 3D games that it becomes a problem.

>> No.6806059
File: 62 KB, 407x240, shi.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6806059

>>6806041
LOL

>> No.6806105
File: 2.97 MB, 1920x1080, sf3.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6806105

>> No.6806135

>>6806025
>SNES
LOL! did you mean to post this in the /pre2k/ general? Nobody actually likes those boring pixel games.

>> No.6806160

>>6806059
That game is trash anyways

>> No.6806574

>>6806105
AH RIGHT IN THE SOUL

>> No.6806998

>>6806041
>Saturn has the pure early Nvidia Quad SOUL

Nvidia had nothing to do with the development of the Sega Saturn. Nvidia's first GPU, the NV1 does render quads through hardware, and Nvidia tried to work with Sega to make as many of their Saturn to PC ports use Nvidias hardware rendering. But the card was a failure, and Nvidia switched to D3D and triangle rendering for the NV3.

the Sega Saturn quads are basically 2D sprites being manipulated in 3D using vertices. Basically sprites are being bill boarded into 3D models. The Saturn is an evolution of Yu Suzuki's Super Scalier algorithms. Like how the Model 1 and Model 2 arcade boards worked.

>> No.6807030

>>6806041
It needed better side scrollers. Things like gex were good. But they needed more .

>> No.6808460
File: 251 KB, 800x1243, mr_bones.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6808460

>>6807030
Saturn got the most sidescrollers out of any other fifth gen console, though.

Truly it was the last real 2D system, before PS1 and N64 fucked it all up.

>> No.6808723
File: 434 KB, 1536x2048, 1577151564943.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6808723

>>6806041
>Nvidia
It was the other way around, NVIDIA ltater took the Saturn's GPU and turned it into a PC GPU in some licensing deal. But they had nothing to do with the development of the Saturn hardware.

>> No.6808739

>>6806105
As a kid, I never met anyone with a Saturn, the console catches my attention though due all the Japan exclusives. What RPG is that?

>> No.6809902
File: 149 KB, 1710x900, Feature-Image-For-Power-A-Remote-Article[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6809902

I want to buy one of these out of curiosity. Thoughts?

>> No.6810008

>>6806059
Literally a few steps over there's true transparency on both Saturn and PS1.

>> No.6810058

>>6808723
>It was the other way around, NVIDIA ltater took the Saturn's GPU and turned it into a PC GPU in some licensing deal. But they had nothing to do with the development of the Saturn hardware.

Nvidia was also developing a graphics chip for the Sega Saturn 2 (not to be confused with the Dreamcast).

>NV2
>Cancelled before completion, NV2 was to be NVIDIA's second PC 3D accelerator graphics chip.
>A successor to the NV1, NV2 built upon its predecessor's unusual quadratic 3D-rendering architecture. It was initially considered for use in Sega's Dreamcast console, due to the relationship cultivated between NVidia and Sega over the porting of Sega arcade and Saturn console titles over to the PC platform, where the similarity in NV1's and Saturn's 3D-rendering architecture aided in the porting process. (The NV1 graphics cards had 2 Sega Saturn gamepad ports integrated so that Saturn titles could be easily ported over to the NV1 cards and have an equal gameplay experience.) However, experience with both Saturn and NV1's 3D-rendering architecture in the Saturn ultimately led the company to abandon quadratic 3D-rendering architecture altogether, in favor of a more traditional architecture that operated on triangle primitives.[3]

wikipedia.

>> No.6810313

>>6809902
Pretty shit desu. I still own mine, because I guess there's no real reason to throw it out. Mostly a novelty for comparison.

>> No.6810335

>>6806025
The Saturn is the second worst console I own behind only the Wii U. at least the Saturn has all sorts of quality shmups and arcade ports.
the Wii U has like 4 games worth playing and 3 of those have been ported to Switch.

>> No.6810349

Reminder that the Saturn was retardedly difficult to program for and we'll probably never see games that reach the Saturn's full potential since the console barely made it through the full hardware generation.

>> No.6810370

>>6810349
Saturn Shenmue proves there's a lot of untapped potential on the hardware. We just weren't ready...

>> No.6810372

>>6810335
The Wii U is a fucking amazing console once hacked though

>> No.6811296

>>6810349
This is pulling off some pretty impressive stuff:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPYEiDwZbRc

>> No.6811323

Sonic R did some impressive things with transparencies on the final track:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_ctL4rkTKo

Really good explanation from the lead coder, Jon Burton:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdD0GvVRSMc

>> No.6811418

>>6808739
Shining Force III

>> No.6811458
File: 2.89 MB, 512x366, PsychicKillerTaromaru.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6811458

>>6810372
It's pretty shit even if hacked

>>6810335
Saturn's my second best console, tied with the PS2 and only behind the PS1.

>> No.6811464

>>6811458
>Saturn's my second best console, tied with the PS2 and only behind the PS1.
You must really like inferior ports and shovelware.

>> No.6811472

>>6811464
I don't think of it like that, it just has a lot of great games I love and I can't really find them anywhere else.

>> No.6811476

>>6811472
>it just has a lot of great games
Wrong.

>> No.6811481
File: 2.70 MB, 2048x1102, saturn-games-collage.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6811481

>>6811476
It really does, hundreds of great games. Such a great console.

>> No.6811489

>>6811481
>image full of inferior ports and shovelware
Thanks for proving my point.

>> No.6811492
File: 3.88 MB, 1952x8110, sega saturn list.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6811492

>>6811489
What point was that? There's so many great games on the console. It's hard not to love it.

>> No.6811498

>>6811492
That's a lot of inferior ports and shovelware. I don't know how anyone can look at this crap and think it's great.

>> No.6811502

>>6811498
Can you name them all? So far those are all excellent games. Especially Tomb Raider and Quake.

>> No.6811507

>>6806025
>when a shitpost for Saturn is the only thread reminiscent of /vr/
When is the gba autist going to get bored and leave

>> No.6811509

>>6811502
TR and Quake in particular are inferior ports indeed.

>> No.6811515

>>6811509
I dunno kiddo, tomb raider is far better on saturn than it is on n64. Quake on PS1 is also inferior. Sounds like you're butthurt about the Saturn.

>> No.6811518

>>6811458
It's got all Wii and Wii U,
games, and emulates pretty much all the good consoles in history. As an emulation machine, it's great. Best of all it's the easiest to hack next to Wii.

>> No.6811521

>>6811518
Does a shit job with the Wii picture quality, much better to play on an actual Wii. As far as Wii U...I can live without that.

>> No.6811525
File: 2.93 MB, 584x476, Tomb Raider Saturn JUST 2.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6811525

>>6811515
I think you got those consoles backwards but either way the Saturn versions of those games are ass.

>> No.6811528

>>6811525
Looks much better than the N64 version of Tomb Raider

>> No.6811530

>>6811528
There is no N64 port of TR.

>> No.6811531
File: 187 KB, 1200x800, 251B4933-3FE0-4C31-AEC3-51C8CB44A8DB.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6811531

>>6806025
Has the best controller ever though.

>> No.6811532

>>6811530
Say it louder for the people in the back.

>> No.6811534

>>6806025
>Can't even do transparency well
It can, zoom zoom. The problem is flagging every object as a transparency, and it was easier to use meshes since it required less time and horsepower.

>> No.6811542
File: 2.94 MB, 584x476, Tomb Raider Saturn combat.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6811542

>>6811532
I don't get it.

>> No.6811545

>>6811521
>Does a shit job with the Wii picture quality
I haven't really noticed. I don't really think Wii games looked all that good to begin at this point, so it doesn't make much of a difference to me anymore.

>> No.6811546

>>6809902
unironically wait for a saturn mini

>> No.6811547
File: 2.91 MB, 480x360, Elevator Action Returns 2.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6811547

>>6811542
I know

>> No.6811554

>>6811518
i love my wiiu
its got gamecube hardware built into it so stuff like nintendont isnt even emulation

>> No.6811559

>>6811534
I think it was more to with slowdown wasn’t it?
So he’s kind of right about it, if transparency slows your games down then it can’t really do it

>> No.6811560
File: 2.89 MB, 640x480, Quake Saturn_001.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6811560

>>6811547
Imagine if Saturn got good exclusive software instead of inferior ports.

>> No.6811564
File: 3.00 MB, 720x540, pdzwei.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6811564

>>6811560
It got tons, that's the best part about it.

>> No.6811573

>>6811564
It doesn't have much. The bar for quality is so low Nights is considered one of the best games on the console.

>> No.6811578
File: 2.94 MB, 640x480, christmas-nights.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6811578

>>6811573
It has tons: >>6811492 Nights is also a great game.

>> No.6811584

>>6811554
I think my Wii U is okay. Certainly better than Wii I'd say. I liked some of what came out for it at the time.

>> No.6811586

>>6811578
Most of those games are the worst version of a multiplat game. Also Nights is mediocre, don't even try and tell me "it's a scoring game!!!11!" that still requires the actual gameplay to be good. Not Superman 64 but in 2D.

>> No.6811593

>>6811586
You need to name them all, Nights is also really good, but you need to have an arcade mindset. It's not a kiddy game like Mario :)

>> No.6811601

>>6811593
It's even more kiddy than Mario, Nights is so piss easy and short Saturn fans actually have to cope by calling it "arcade style" when everybody knows it just sucks.

>> No.6811604

>>6811559
Not really, it just required more time flag something as a transparency on VDP1, which is the video processor most games used for foreground objects. VDP2 can do it easily, but inexperienced devs usually relegated that to background objects or outright ignored it.

So no, OP is wrong and a nigger.

>> No.6811608
File: 3.00 MB, 800x452, Nights.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6811608

>>6811601
Sounds like you're admitting you're terrible at it anon...it's OK, but you don't have to play games you're bad at.

>> No.6811613

>>6811608
It isn't even possible to suck at such a simple game.

>> No.6811614

>>6811613
You gotta prove it. Post your high scores.

>> No.6811618

>>6811613
Anyone can "beat" nights but very few can master it

>> No.6811627

>>6811492
>>6811502
>>6811515
>MUH MUH TOMB R-RAIDER
Fucking kill yourselves
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXCkcprQUro
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VutzIK3DqZE&t=5m16s

This cope has gone on long enough

>> No.6811634

>>6811627
STILL, 100% better than the N64 version of the game.

>> No.6811637

>>6811614
Post yours, poser.
>>6811618
"mastering" Nights as in getting the highest score? Because that is the most mindnumbingly shit thing imaginable. You literally just repeat the same loops repeatedly until the timer is nearly up. The entire game is milking for score which is beyond shit design for an """arcade style""" game.

>> No.6811654
File: 2.94 MB, 640x360, PDZweiHanuman.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6811654

>>6811637
>poser
Speak for yourself, I'm not seeing any proof you even played the game. It's kind of pathetic to talk so much about a game you never played...

>> No.6811661

>>6811634
>the N64 version of the game.
Nigger if this is your idea of a meme, you can stop

>> No.6811662

>>6811654
I actually own the big box version that comes with the 3D controller. I bet you don't even own that, poser.

>> No.6811673

>>6811661
>he doesn't know about the inferior port that is tomb raider 64

>>6811662
You've got a noticeable complex about it anon, where did the Saturn touch you?

>> No.6811684

>>6811673
To be honest I'm just sick of seeing you pretend it's some amazing game. It's not and mediocre titles like that are why the Saturn flopped so hard in the first place.

>> No.6811693
File: 2.66 MB, 800x600, diehard-arcade.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6811693

>>6811684
Who am I exactly in this head of yours? Do I look like your father?

>> No.6811698

>>6806041
Fook off cope.

>> No.6811701

>>6811673
It doesn't exist niggerbrain.

>> No.6811702

>>6808460
Nah, PC-FX was last real 2D system.

>> No.6811707

>>6806025
I bet you're a poorfag. Bashing on the Sega Saturn isn't going to make it any cheaper for you to buy it, faggot.

>> No.6811708

>>6811693
You're the Saturntranny who pretends Nights is some great game for "scoring"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PphCn9l91po
I dare anybody to watch this and think it looks like a fun scoring game. Doing the same exact sequence over and over for milking until the time limit is as bad as it gets when it comes to scoring in games.

>> No.6811712

>>6811708
The saturnwhat? Are you from kiwifarms?

>> No.6811713

>>6811534
>lack hardware
No it can’t, straight moron.

>> No.6811715

>>6811604
> it just required more time flag something as a transparency on VDP1
This is nonsense from someone who doesn't know what they're talking about. "Flagging it as transparent" requires nothing. It's just a bit you set in the VDP1 command. You can literally go into any Saturn game using meshes, find the VDP1 command for the meshed object and change the bit in memory to instead be true transparency and it will do it. That requires no effort. The problems are as follows:

1) Doing the color calculations for Transparency takes 6 times longer than drawing a normal sprite/polygon.
2) Due to the fact the Saturn uses distorted sprites instead of properly rasterized polygons, you get a ton of pixel overdraw which corrupts the transparency. Basically pixels get drawn on top of each other so you get transparent blending of already blended pixels.
3) Due to how VDP1 and VDP2 interact, you can either blend VDP1 objects with other VDP1 objects, or with VDP2 objects, but not both. If you blend with VDP1, then any VDP2 pixels underneath it will be erased. If you blend with VDP2, then any VDP1 pixels underneath will be erased.

When you take all of those limits into consideration you can understand why devs did meshes. VDP2 can do it, but it's a lot more tricky to set up and requires you to do masking if you're going to try and use it for non Background Objects. You can see this issue in games like Burning Rangers as Transparencies can't overlap with each other, and they look very jagged because of the masking.

>>6811464
>muh inferior ports
Oh fuck off no one missed you. Most the games you bitch about were some of the best ports available at the time or in some cases are still the best options available short of arcade emulation.

>> No.6811723

>>6811715
>at the time
Any Saturn port that got a PC port back then was already inferior to that.

>> No.6811726

>>6811723
quake saturn > quake dos
colored lighting > none

>> No.6811728

>>6811323
Fake new.

>> No.6811740

>>6811528
>better than
N64 ver. actually would look like Saturn graphic.

>> No.6811763
File: 2.90 MB, 622x438, Pentium 133MHz Quake 300x200.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6811763

>>6811726
Quake DOS > powergap > N64 Quake >>>>>> Shiturn Quake.

>> No.6811768

>>6811763
>no colored lighting
trash inferior port.

>> No.6811775
File: 2.84 MB, 640x480, Quake Saturn nice enemies.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6811775

>>6811768
>muh colored lighting!
Inconsequential compared to everything else being completely butchered.

>> No.6811780

>>6811775
Amazing how much better it looks compared to this shit: >>6811763

>> No.6811784
File: 2.92 MB, 640x480, Quake Saturn level 2 intro.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6811784

>>6811780
Maybe to your HRT addled brain but normal functioning people can tell the Saturn port looks like shit.

>> No.6811785

>>6811763
>shitturn
t.Nincel

>> No.6811789

>>6811784
Man that lighting looks great. Shame the PC version couldn't do this.

>> No.6811797
File: 2.66 MB, 1160x442, haha rocket go boom.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6811797

>>6811789
Yeah instead PChads just have to suffer with a significantly better game in every way.

>> No.6811806

>>6811797
>stops posting quake
pathetic

>> No.6811808

>>6806025
So this is the old /vr/?
Sad the change was good.

>> No.6811809

>>6811785
t. tranny douche

>> No.6811817
File: 2.86 MB, 640x480, Duke 3D Saturn machinegun BRRRRRR.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6811817

>>6811806
Thought it was getting pretty old, figured I'd show some other Saturn disasters.

>> No.6811828
File: 219 KB, 1647x855, file.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6811828

>>6811817
was it autism?

>> No.6811838
File: 2.84 MB, 640x480, The absolute state.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6811838

>>6811828
Do you even need to ask? You recognize a bunch of those too I bet. Were you the one who tried telling me I was playing on easy and got utterly BTFO? That was funny.

>> No.6811846
File: 266 KB, 339x436, file.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6811846

>>6811838
>Do you even need to ask?

>> No.6811967

>>6806025
Search new SNES/SFC game: REM.